I asked Kat if he objected to a thread like this. He generously gave me the go ahead.


Some numbnuts of an American President declared a War on Drugs™. As expected, this worked as well as as Prohibition did earlier. Because of this stupid, unwinnable war pill testing was not allowed at some big do in NSW or ACT. This is letting down our young people in a big way.

Before discussing further decriminalising or legalising drugs of addiction let us consider one legal drug: tobacco, nicotine.

A few decades ago something like 80% of the population smoked, certainly 80% of the male population. Smoking rates are now down to 19%. Because the drug was legal information about it could be broadcast. The plain packaging also had a huge impact—took away the glamor of smoking.

Alcohol is another legal drug of addiction. Because it is legal groups like Alcoholics Anonymous could form and hold open, public meetings where they described their tussles with alcohol. We also have breath testing, alcohol education material broadcast and we have things like the number of standard drinks printed on the label.

I know some Drugs Anonymous type groups were set up but drugs other than the above two are illegal unless prescribed.

OK, one last point: a lot of people acquire dependency and addiction to opiates after they have undergone a major operation. I know that on discharge from hospital after my hip replacement operation I was given two sheets of ten (IIRC) Endones, opiates, to take home. After I had not taken any for a few days I woke up with a craving to take an Endone. I managed to resist and had no more cravings after that. I was getting close to 30 doses which engenders dependency. Next day I returned one full sheet and one sheet of one tablet to a rather startled pharmacist.

I only needed ONE sheet, why give me two? Careless! Issuing of opiates etc needs to be controlled much more tightly and more information given to the patients given these powerful drugs to take home!

Because of the idiotic, unwinnable War on Drugs™ we have this nonsense:


Quote:

In response to the opioid crisis, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) is focusing its efforts on five major priorities: 1. improving access to treatment and recovery services 2. promoting use of overdose-reversing drugs 3. strengthening our understanding of the epidemic through better public health surveillance 4. providing support for cutting-edge research on pain and addiction 5. advancing better practices for pain management

https://www.drugabuse.gov/drug-topics/opioids/opioid-overdose-crisis

Points 1–3 above are just wishing the problem away. Not going to happen, people will get addicted and then they will get their drugs!

Points 4-5 might reduce somewhat the number of people who get addicted to prescribed opioids. It is all just pious wishing tho.


Before I present a real solution including real-life examples of it I will let members express an opinion of this.

ALL drugs should decriminalised

I agree for users but not dealers of class A

Make them available through legitimate government approved outlets, tax them and fund rehab.

If pure (not cut with rat poison etc) and known strength drugs are available legally who would go to a dealer?

Cigarettes and alcohol are taxed as they cause costs to the community. So should “recreational” drugs.

I had the idea 20 years ago that smoking would become so unpopular that only 5% of the Australian population would still be smokers. I also formulated the opinion that the cost of smokes with tax being the majority of the cost would make smoking so unviable that people would just quit.

Making drugs legal would largely ensure that drug dealers would go out of business. But, overdoses will escalate. The police would not have to deal with break and enters. They would be redirected towards more numerous car crashes.

It was a real laugh when I heard about the proposed shooting galleries staffed with a nurse. The whole "they are going to do it anyway" concession is just weak-willed policies against people who are too weak to live life without excessive pain killers.

The “shooting galleries” are so addicts inject using clean syringes and needles, reducing the spread of HIV, hepatitis etc.

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 8^th, 2020 at 7:32pm:

The “shooting galleries” are so addicts inject using clean syringes and needles, reducing the spread of HIV, hepatitis etc.

That kind of misses the point. We should not be encouraging drug use. And there are needle exchanges to try and reduce spread of diseases among drug addicts.

Hmmmm but Prohibition does not work, so just “discouraging” does not reduce rates of addiction or the rates of HIV/hepatitis infections spreading!

Clean needles, shooting galleries, sharps disposal bins—all recognising that drugs of addiction are being used—do reduce rates of HIV/Hepatitis infections.

It's important to note that there is a distinct difference between decriminalising drugs and making them legal.  Decriminalising means treating use and abuse as a health, rather than criminal matter. This will certainly free up police and court resources and somewhat reduce the level of street crime, however any cost savings will be absorbed by the increased medical intervention needed.   

We then have to decide what the desired outcome is. To maintain addicts so that they don't need to resort to crime to feed their habit, or to actively assist them to get themselves clean?  Also, while lower end crime may reduce, the big players in the drug business will simply move on to some other criminal activity that is profitable, they will not suddenly become upright citizens.

Belgarion wrote on Sep 9^th, 2020 at 2:21pm:

It's important to note that there is a distinct difference between decriminalising drugs and making them legal.  Decriminalising means treating use and abuse as a health, rather than criminal matter. This will certainly free up police and court resources and somewhat reduce the level of street crime, however any cost savings will be absorbed by the increased medical intervention needed.    We then have to decide what the desired outcome is. To maintain addicts so that they don't need to resort to crime to feed their habit, or to actively assist them to get themselves clean?  Also, while lower end crime may reduce, the big players in the drug business will simply move on to some other criminal activity that is profitable, they will not suddenly become upright citizens.

A common sense post. I agree, drug use is primarily a health issue and should be treated as such. Police can still go after the big time drug dealers and importers, but a guy with a marijuana plant in his yard for his personal use?

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Sep 9^th, 2020 at 3:01pm:

Belgarion wrote on Sep 9th, 2020 at 2:21pm: It's important to note that there is a distinct difference between decriminalising drugs and making them legal.  Decriminalising means treating use and abuse as a health, rather than criminal matter. This will certainly free up police and court resources and somewhat reduce the level of street crime, however any cost savings will be absorbed by the increased medical intervention needed.    We then have to decide what the desired outcome is. To maintain addicts so that they don't need to resort to crime to feed their habit, or to actively assist them to get themselves clean?  Also, while lower end crime may reduce, the big players in the drug business will simply move on to some other criminal activity that is profitable, they will not suddenly become upright citizens. A common sense post. I agree, drug use is primarily a health issue and should be treated as such. Police can still go after the big time drug dealers and importers, but a guy with a marijuana plant in his yard for his personal use?

I never understood why people who take drugs
are classed as criminals?
It's a victimless offence.
They only hurt themselves unless they drive
a car and kill someone while intoxicated.
They should should just give out small fines.

The cops need to spend time chasing:
home invaders, car jackers and burglars.

The problem is that drugs can lead to withdrawals that trigger violent outbursts and delusions. I have seen the effects of people who dry out from heroin usage. Alcoholic drinks lead people to generally lose their inhibitions. But if the withdrawals included having violent outbursts and delusions, you would probably see greater regulations or even bans on alcohol sales. Geez, I wonder where I have seen that before?

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Sep 9^th, 2020 at 3:01pm:

Belgarion wrote on Sep 9th, 2020 at 2:21pm: It's important to note that there is a distinct difference between decriminalising drugs and making them legal.  Decriminalising means treating use and abuse as a health, rather than criminal matter. This will certainly free up police and court resources and somewhat reduce the level of street crime, however any cost savings will be absorbed by the increased medical intervention needed.    We then have to decide what the desired outcome is. To maintain addicts so that they don't need to resort to crime to feed their habit, or to actively assist them to get themselves clean?  Also, while lower end crime may reduce, the big players in the drug business will simply move on to some other criminal activity that is profitable, they will not suddenly become upright citizens. A common sense post. I agree, drug use is primarily a health issue and should be treated as such. Police can still go after the big time drug dealers and importers, but a guy with a marijuana plant in his yard for his personal use?

yes

UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 8^th, 2020 at 7:20pm:

I had the idea 20 years ago that smoking would become so unpopular that only 5% of the Australian population would still be smokers. I also formulated the opinion that the cost of smokes with tax being the majority of the cost would make smoking so unviable that people would just quit. Making drugs legal would largely ensure that drug dealers would go out of business. But, overdoses will escalate. The police would not have to deal with break and enters. They would be redirected towards more numerous car crashes. It was a real laugh when I heard about the proposed shooting galleries staffed with a nurse. The whole "they are going to do it anyway" concession is just weak-willed policies against people who are too weak to live life without excessive pain killers.

Portugal found the rates of overdoses reduced after legalising drugs

Bobby. wrote on Sep 9^th, 2020 at 3:07pm:

I never understood why people who take drugs are classed as criminals? It's a victimless offence.

don't be so daft

John Smith wrote on Sep 9^th, 2020 at 6:03pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 8th, 2020 at 7:20pm: I had the idea 20 years ago that smoking would become so unpopular that only 5% of the Australian population would still be smokers. I also formulated the opinion that the cost of smokes with tax being the majority of the cost would make smoking so unviable that people would just quit. Making drugs legal would largely ensure that drug dealers would go out of business. But, overdoses will escalate. The police would not have to deal with break and enters. They would be redirected towards more numerous car crashes. It was a real laugh when I heard about the proposed shooting galleries staffed with a nurse. The whole "they are going to do it anyway" concession is just weak-willed policies against people who are too weak to live life without excessive pain killers. Portugal found the rates of overdoses reduced after legalising drugs

I heard different. There may well have been a relaxing of numbers in the long term. But the short term was an initial spike in overdoses with the upturn of users using more.

UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 3:01am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 9th, 2020 at 6:03pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 8th, 2020 at 7:20pm: I had the idea 20 years ago that smoking would become so unpopular that only 5% of the Australian population would still be smokers. I also formulated the opinion that the cost of smokes with tax being the majority of the cost would make smoking so unviable that people would just quit. Making drugs legal would largely ensure that drug dealers would go out of business. But, overdoses will escalate. The police would not have to deal with break and enters. They would be redirected towards more numerous car crashes. It was a real laugh when I heard about the proposed shooting galleries staffed with a nurse. The whole "they are going to do it anyway" concession is just weak-willed policies against people who are too weak to live life without excessive pain killers. Portugal found the rates of overdoses reduced after legalising drugs I heard different. There may well have been a relaxing of numbers in the long term. But the short term was an initial spike in overdoses with the upturn of users using more.

Monk turned me onto an excellent interiview that explains all of that. I hope he won't mond mebeating him to the punch but here it is:

https://www.npr.org/2011/01/20/133086356/Mixed-Results-For-Portugals-Great-Drug-Experiment

While it seems fatalities form drug use increased, problematic behaviour associated with drug use decreased overall.

I consider this would be sorted by the government overseeing drug quality.

For example, get rid of the backyard operatives cooking in sinks in filth and ensure heroin stays at a consistent purity. Contrary to popular belief, it's not usually bad smack that kills, it's stuff that is expectantly purer than accounted for in dosing. But in this country, unlike Portugal where smack is huge, party drugs and meth are more our problems.

Super Nova wrote on Sep 8^th, 2020 at 7:07pm:

ALL drugs should decriminalised I agree for users but not dealers of class A Make them available through legitimate government approved outlets, tax them and fund rehab.

so create a bigger problem  but at least try and fix it all at the same time..


mmmmmmmmmm...


r.u.happy with the way the govts runs our ----  lets say MENTAL HEALTH problems??...what about

Hospitals?

what about our GST tax money...

now we are told our superfunds  are being creamed by the top guns..


Quote:

Not-for-profit industry superannuation funds dominate the top of the super tree, and several of their CEOs and chief investment officers are pocketing $1 million-plus salaries, while the funds donate millions of dollars to unions. The funds’ latest annual reports show the highest-earning super CEO for 2018-19 was HostPlus’s David Elia, who was paid $1.19 million, while AustralianSuper boss Ian Silk earned $1.06 million and QSuper CEO Michael Pennisi was paid $1.02 million.

most on over a million.......

there is no such thing as an efficiently run govt dept....

at best it would be Keystone Cops..

lets not forget all these little van running around just to get these drugs delivered to their selling points...

just a thought sprint  how about a Mr Whippy type van..

:) :) :)

sorry but I can see so many potholes...

let me know when we get the Mental Health  dept running as it should

plus Aged Care another horror.

We can use the lessons learned in Portugal (and in Holland) to ensure no/minimal overdoses.

Yes, some may use more—it is cleaner drug, known strength and no doubt cheaper than buying a drug from a criminal!

Maybe the drugs can only be ingested/injected in a shooting gallery?

I better post stuff on Portuguese and Dutch expoeriences soon, eh? Was hoping to leave that to next week, oh well.

fter massively reforming its drug policy at the turn of the century, Portugal stands as a global leader of evidence-based policy grounded on the principle of harm reduction. The situation seems to be working, with more people in treatment and fewer new cases of HIV. But the key to this policy was not legalisation of drugs. Mythbusters investigates Portugal’s nuanced approach to drug policy.

The short answer is no, drugs are not legal in Portugal. The probable reasons for the myth that they are comes down to a misunderstanding of legal principles, especially the difference between legalising and decriminalising and the very innovative way Portugal has changed its drug policy.

https://www.drugfoundation.org.nz/matters-of-substance/may-2013/drugs-are-legal-portugal/

Probably why this topic is about decriminalising drugs, eh cods?

There's money to be made in looking after Drug Addicts.
Exploit and cash in.
;)

Jasin wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 8:22am:

There's money to be made in looking after Drug Addicts. Exploit and cash in. ;)

as the article points out..
a lot of  people get the two confused......

you for instance sound as if this is a solution to people doing the wrong thing.......filling their bodies with poison...

.how many drug addicts have you dealt with in your life???    mean real drug addicts...not Saturday all nighters.

Terrified and having a cannabis-induced psychotic episode, Grace Herington didn’t want to die when she slipped out of a police officer’s arms and plunged 10 metres off a Sydney highway to her death.

The 23-year-old former dux of Grafton’s Clarence Valley Anglican School was a star student and had moved to the city to study history at the University of Sydney, training hard in martial arts and sticking clear of drugs and alcohol like a “beautiful country girl”.

But Sydney “ate her up and spat her out” according to her heartbroken mother.

Ms Herington’s mental health began to spiral after using cannabis. In the early hours of December 19, 2018 her brother Kenneth woke in their Hunters Hill apartment to find her hallucinating with books and diaries around her.

Lidcombe Coroners Court heard Mr Herington called paramedics before his sister climbed out her bedroom window and began running towards an off ramp from Burns Bay Rd.

Drugs: one world that covers everything from bush weed to fentanyl.

Some are safe, many not.

Saying drugs ALL drugs should be legal is the thinking of either a child, a simplton or someone who can't walk past a shop without drinking the hand sanitiser out the front.

cods wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 9:24am:

Jasin wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 8:22am: There's money to be made in looking after Drug Addicts. Exploit and cash in. ;) as the article points out.. a lot of  people get the two confused...... you for instance sound as if this is a solution to people doing the wrong thing.......filling their bodies with poison... .how many drug addicts have you dealt with in your life???    mean real drug addicts...not Saturday all nighters.

Yeah sure.

Gordon wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 12:40pm:

Drugs: one world that covers everything from bush weed to fentanyl. Some are safe, many not. Saying drugs ALL drugs should be legal is the thinking of either a child, a simplton or someone who can't walk past a shop without drinking the hand sanitiser out the front.

Which one are you then? Gay, a child, a simpleton or an alcoholic or some combination, Gordon?

Gordon wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 12:40pm:

Drugs: one world that covers everything from bush weed to fentanyl. Some are safe, many not. Saying drugs ALL drugs should be legal is the thinking of either a child, a simplton or someone who can't walk past a shop without drinking the hand sanitiser out the front.

Mmmm ..... .hand sanitiser.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bZh7wKwe4m8/TBjUXuqaw0I/AAAAAAAABOo/VDybVkQsbo4/s1600/vjhgugyhg.png

UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 3:01am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 9th, 2020 at 6:03pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 8th, 2020 at 7:20pm: I had the idea 20 years ago that smoking would become so unpopular that only 5% of the Australian population would still be smokers. I also formulated the opinion that the cost of smokes with tax being the majority of the cost would make smoking so unviable that people would just quit. Making drugs legal would largely ensure that drug dealers would go out of business. But, overdoses will escalate. The police would not have to deal with break and enters. They would be redirected towards more numerous car crashes. It was a real laugh when I heard about the proposed shooting galleries staffed with a nurse. The whole "they are going to do it anyway" concession is just weak-willed policies against people who are too weak to live life without excessive pain killers. Portugal found the rates of overdoses reduced after legalising drugs I heard different. There may well have been a relaxing of numbers in the long term. But the short term was an initial spike in overdoses with the upturn of users using more.

Not what I heard but nevertheless, It's a long term game. Making drugs illegal has failed abysmally both long and short term. We need to try something different.

cods wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 12:08pm:

Terrified and having a cannabis-induced psychotic episode, Grace Herington didn’t want to die when she slipped out of a police officer’s arms and plunged 10 metres off a Sydney highway to her death. The 23-year-old former dux of Grafton’s Clarence Valley Anglican School was a star student and had moved to the city to study history at the University of Sydney, training hard in martial arts and sticking clear of drugs and alcohol like a “beautiful country girl”. But Sydney “ate her up and spat her out” according to her heartbroken mother. Ms Herington’s mental health began to spiral after using cannabis. In the early hours of December 19, 2018 her brother Kenneth woke in their Hunters Hill apartment to find her hallucinating with books and diaries around her. Lidcombe Coroners Court heard Mr Herington called paramedics before his sister climbed out her bedroom window and began running towards an off ramp from Burns Bay Rd.

All that happened whilst drugs were illegal cods .... your point?

What is the odds Grace was using drugs at Grafton’s Clarence Valley Anglican School? That how she stayed on top of schoolwork and being popular?

cods wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 12:08pm:

Terrified and having a cannabis-induced psychotic episode, Grace Herington didn’t want to die when she slipped out of a police officer’s arms and plunged 10 metres off a Sydney highway to her death. The 23-year-old former dux of Grafton’s Clarence Valley Anglican School was a star student and had moved to the city to study history at the University of Sydney, training hard in martial arts and sticking clear of drugs and alcohol like a “beautiful country girl”. But Sydney “ate her up and spat her out” according to her heartbroken mother. Ms Herington’s mental health began to spiral after using cannabis. In the early hours of December 19, 2018 her brother Kenneth woke in their Hunters Hill apartment to find her hallucinating with books and diaries around her. Lidcombe Coroners Court heard Mr Herington called paramedics before his sister climbed out her bedroom window and began running towards an off ramp from Burns Bay Rd.

Apparently the usage and damage from drugs decreases when they are decriminilised.

The drugs have less of an allure and are more controllable.

What is, for example you could register to the local police shop and grow 10 pot plants in your back yard?

Exactly Sprint! If drugs are something you get from a pharmacy instead of a crim some of the allure, the adventure is gone from drug taking.

John Smith wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 4:54pm:

cods wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 12:08pm: Terrified and having a cannabis-induced psychotic episode, Grace Herington didn’t want to die when she slipped out of a police officer’s arms and plunged 10 metres off a Sydney highway to her death. The 23-year-old former dux of Grafton’s Clarence Valley Anglican School was a star student and had moved to the city to study history at the University of Sydney, training hard in martial arts and sticking clear of drugs and alcohol like a “beautiful country girl”. But Sydney “ate her up and spat her out” according to her heartbroken mother. Ms Herington’s mental health began to spiral after using cannabis. In the early hours of December 19, 2018 her brother Kenneth woke in their Hunters Hill apartment to find her hallucinating with books and diaries around her. Lidcombe Coroners Court heard Mr Herington called paramedics before his sister climbed out her bedroom window and began running towards an off ramp from Burns Bay Rd. All that happened whilst drugs were illegal cods .... your point?

just the DAMAGE they cause...as one can buy them on every street corner    I have never heard of a druggie having problems finding a seller... have you?

how many real duggies have you known  or had to deal with?

for that matter how many gov dept do you know of that have run without a hitch or corruption....

we are never told how many drugs disappear from hospitals.....because its impossible to keep track of....

Gordon wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 12:40pm:

Drugs: one world that covers everything from bush weed to fentanyl. Some are safe, many not. Saying drugs ALL drugs should be legal is the thinking of either a child, a simplton or someone who can't walk past a shop without drinking the hand sanitiser out the front.

if they are serious and intend spending the money as to make a HUGE difference  I do think we are sitting ducks..... ... countries like Portugal  are in the thick of the drug belt  they would be batting off drug cartels left right and centre....this way   think of the money the country saves ? why hasnt another large country followed suite if its such a success?...

I would suggest a real druggy would never ever get off them if this is the case.   btw how many do we lose to od.?

cods wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 5:21pm:

just the DAMAGE they cause...

lots of things cause damage but are still legal cods. Sugar, Alcohol, peanuts for some etc. You'll never stop people from having bad reactions to things.

What makes dugs worse is that often drug dealers use all sorts of crap to make their drugs stretch out .... paint stripper, nail polish remover, bleach are just a few of the things I've heard have been used but essentially they'll use whatever they happen to have laying around. Taking control of the drug industry allows us to control what gets put out. Why would anyone go buy a pill from a drug dealer that he made in his shed with who knows what, when you can go to a chemist and know that what you're getting is safe?

cods wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 5:21pm:

how many real duggies have you known  or had to deal with?

I have a junkie next door. He's been a junkie for over twenty years. He can't kick the habit. Half his arm looks like it has rotted off from shooting up so much (looks like something bit a chunk out of his forearm) but still he can't quit. Otherwise he's a nice enough bloke.  I feel sorry for his mum, who he still lives with even though he's in his mid 40's. She's a sweetheart. She pretends everything Ok and covers up for him but he comes and tells me everything anyway.

John Smith wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 5:38pm:

cods wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 5:21pm: how many real duggies have you known  or had to deal with? I have a junkie next door. He's been a junkie for over twenty years. He can't kick the habit. Half his arm looks like it has rotted off from shooting up so much (looks like something bit a chunk out of his forearm) but still he can't quit. Otherwise he's a nice enough bloke.  I feel sorry for his mum, who he still lives with even though he's in his mid 40's. She's a sweetheart. She pretends everything Ok and covers up for him but he comes and tells me everything anyway.

yes but you dont live with him...there in lies the difference....I have one coming here on Sat to do some work in my garden for me if it works out for him he has even been in jail..for holding up a shop at knife point for drugs.. he has been good but falls off the wagon here and there. hes my daughter in laws brother...who fell through the cracks at a very young age.....I have always had time for him... not sure why..but he does try and he is sorry for the pain hes caused another one who lives with just his long suffering mum....she has even come home to him tearing her settee to bits and staffing it with teatowels.when he had a bad dose...its like sitting back and watching a nightmare...

John Smith wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 5:34pm:

cods wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 5:21pm: just the DAMAGE they cause... lots of things cause damage but are still legal cods. Sugar, Alcohol, peanuts for some etc. You'll never stop people from having bad reactions to things. What makes dugs worse is that often drug dealers use all sorts of crap to make their drugs stretch out .... paint stripper, nail polish remover, bleach are just a few of the things I've heard have been used but essentially they'll use whatever they happen to have laying around. Taking control of the drug industry allows us to control what gets put out. Why would anyone go buy a pill from a drug dealer that he made in his shed with who knows what, when you can go to a chemist and know that what you're getting is safe?

what about speeding on the road... always always over a 1000 every year killed needlessly   should we legalise that as well or how about make car go no faster than 70...think of the savings there..

I dont think we have over a 1000 year in years out in overdoses do we?

Legalising drugs that have no beneficial effect and cause severe damage is like legalising Terrorism as aok.

cods wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 5:48pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 5:38pm: cods wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 5:21pm: how many real duggies have you known  or had to deal with? I have a junkie next door. He's been a junkie for over twenty years. He can't kick the habit. Half his arm looks like it has rotted off from shooting up so much (looks like something bit a chunk out of his forearm) but still he can't quit. Otherwise he's a nice enough bloke.  I feel sorry for his mum, who he still lives with even though he's in his mid 40's. She's a sweetheart. She pretends everything Ok and covers up for him but he comes and tells me everything anyway. yes but you dont live with him...there in lies the difference....I have one coming here on Sat to do some work in my garden for me if it works out for him he has even been in jail..for holding up a shop at knife point for drugs.. he has been good but falls off the wagon here and there. hes my daughter in laws brother...who fell through the cracks at a very young age.....I have always had time for him... not sure why..but he does try and he is sorry for the pain hes caused another one who lives with just his long suffering mum....she has even come home to him tearing her settee to bits and staffing it with teatowels.when he had a bad dose...its like sitting back and watching a nightmare...

That is scary.

I have known a few druggies.
Never a good scene.
It is very damaging.

Jasin wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 6:14pm:

Legalising drugs that have no beneficial effect and cause severe damage is like legalising Terrorism as aok.

So alcohol then?

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 9:26pm:

Jasin wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 6:14pm: Legalising drugs that have no beneficial effect and cause severe damage is like legalising Terrorism as aok. So alcohol then?

cigarettes?

Agree, the problem is if we to ban any drug with no benefit and only problems then goes the VB and Winnie blues

Yup, I did mention the success of the Quit programs, Plain Packaging have hugely reduced smoking rates. Higher and higher excise helped too, no doubt.

We could do this because tobacco is not criminalised, is in fact legal to use.

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 11:23pm:

Yup, I did mention the success of the Quit programs, Plain Packaging have hugely reduced smoking rates. Higher and higher excise helped too, no doubt. We could do this because tobacco is not criminalised, is in fact legal to use.

Kids are still smoking cigarettes and taking drugs.  The Quit program is too late, they need a Don't Start program.  ;)

https://police.act.gov.au/safety-and-security/alcohol-and-drugs/drugs-and-law

Oh, and a lot of addictive drugs are prescribed by your friendly GP.  ;)

Neferti wrote on Sep 11^th, 2020 at 7:39am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 11:23pm: Yup, I did mention the success of the Quit programs, Plain Packaging have hugely reduced smoking rates. Higher and higher excise helped too, no doubt. We could do this because tobacco is not criminalised, is in fact legal to use. Kids are still smoking cigarettes and taking drugs.  The Quit program is too late, they need a Don't Start program.  ;) https://police.act.gov.au/safety-and-security/alcohol-and-drugs/drugs-and-law

not one of my grandkids smoke nef...and the only one in the family that does is my son.. and we have tried everything... but at the end of the day you can lead a horse to water... BUT.........


Neferti wrote on Sep 11^th, 2020 at 7:41am:

Oh, and a lot of addictive drugs are prescribed by your friendly GP.  ;)

thats me nef......I wouldnt be able to walk around if it wasnt for the drugs I take......

Nobody in my family smokes either. None of my grandkids, nieces or nephews have ever smoked or taken drugs, nor have their parents. I don't even have panadeine or whatever in my medicine chest.

cods wrote on Sep 11^th, 2020 at 7:48am:

Neferti wrote on Sep 11th, 2020 at 7:39am: Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 11:23pm: Yup, I did mention the success of the Quit programs, Plain Packaging have hugely reduced smoking rates. Higher and higher excise helped too, no doubt. We could do this because tobacco is not criminalised, is in fact legal to use. Kids are still smoking cigarettes and taking drugs.  The Quit program is too late, they need a Don't Start program.  ;) https://police.act.gov.au/safety-and-security/alcohol-and-drugs/drugs-and-law not one of my grandkids smoke nef...and the only one in the family that does is my son.. and we have tried everything... but at the end of the day you can lead a horse to water... BUT......... Neferti wrote on Sep 11th, 2020 at 7:41am: Oh, and a lot of addictive drugs are prescribed by your friendly GP.  ;) thats me nef......I wouldnt be able to walk around if it wasnt for the drugs I take......

Yes, I mentioned prescriptions of opioids.

Smoking is now confined to under 20% of the population, a huge success story. Kids may take up smoking but the plain packaging has reduced even that.

I went from one workplace to another in the last 10 years. From 2010, we hardly had anyone working at my workplace who smoked. A couple of years later, a few smokers were there. I swapped over to a new job, similar work. A third of the workers there smoked.

I gave myself the opinion that smoking was on the way out.

Neferti wrote on Sep 11^th, 2020 at 7:56am:

Nobody in my family smokes either. None of my grandkids, nieces or nephews have ever smoked or taken drugs, nor have their parents. I don't even have panadeine or whatever in my medicine chest.

Dad was the only smoker in my family. Most of his siblings were smokers. I turned 10 years old before Dad decided to quit smoking. He was worried that I was going to take up the habit.

Money was a bit of a struggle because of Dad's smoking and drinking. Dad quit smoking and the money started being saved. Perhaps we saved $20 a week because Dad quit -- $50 in today's terms. Yet, it all added up over time and we did better.

Dad's siblings who smoked did worse than his siblings who did not smoke or who had quit smoking. Less aggravation among the non-smokers, too.

cods wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 5:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 5:34pm: cods wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 5:21pm: just the DAMAGE they cause... lots of things cause damage but are still legal cods. Sugar, Alcohol, peanuts for some etc. You'll never stop people from having bad reactions to things. What makes dugs worse is that often drug dealers use all sorts of crap to make their drugs stretch out .... paint stripper, nail polish remover, bleach are just a few of the things I've heard have been used but essentially they'll use whatever they happen to have laying around. Taking control of the drug industry allows us to control what gets put out. Why would anyone go buy a pill from a drug dealer that he made in his shed with who knows what, when you can go to a chemist and know that what you're getting is safe? what about speeding on the road... always always over a 1000 every year killed needlessly   should we legalise that as well or how about make car go no faster than 70...think of the savings there.. I dont think we have over a 1000 year in years out in overdoses do we?

More than 2000 Aussies die every year from drug overdoses Cods. But thats a poo comparison .. whilst most people drive, most people do no do drugs.

We control speeding on the roads cods, we don't make driving illegal for everyone because some die in accidents. Decriminalizing drugs allows us to control the drugs and takes the power and the money away from drug dealers.  You used to be able to buy Heroin over the counter (in the USA)  .. it was only once some politician saw it as a way to win votes that it became an issue.

Again, making drugs illegal HAS NOT WORKED in over 50 years ...  not in any country including those that have the death penalty for drug dealers. How many more years must it fail before you're willing to try something new? 

cods wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 5:48pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 5:38pm: cods wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 5:21pm: how many real duggies have you known  or had to deal with? I have a junkie next door. He's been a junkie for over twenty years. He can't kick the habit. Half his arm looks like it has rotted off from shooting up so much (looks like something bit a chunk out of his forearm) but still he can't quit. Otherwise he's a nice enough bloke.  I feel sorry for his mum, who he still lives with even though he's in his mid 40's. She's a sweetheart. She pretends everything Ok and covers up for him but he comes and tells me everything anyway. yes but you dont live with him...there in lies the difference....I have one coming here on Sat to do some work in my garden for me if it works out for him he has even been in jail..for holding up a shop at knife point for drugs.. he has been good but falls off the wagon here and there. hes my daughter in laws brother...who fell through the cracks at a very young age.....I have always had time for him... not sure why..but he does try and he is sorry for the pain hes caused another one who lives with just his long suffering mum....she has even come home to him tearing her settee to bits and staffing it with teatowels.when he had a bad dose...its like sitting back and watching a nightmare...

Sorry to hear that Cods. I'm not a fan of junkies. But as long as they leave me alone, I'll leave them alone. Most of them are sorry for what they do Cods .... until they need another hit, then they'll do it all over again.

John Smith wrote on Sep 11^th, 2020 at 5:44pm:

cods wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 5:48pm: John Smith wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 5:38pm: cods wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 5:21pm: how many real duggies have you known  or had to deal with? I have a junkie next door. He's been a junkie for over twenty years. He can't kick the habit. Half his arm looks like it has rotted off from shooting up so much (looks like something bit a chunk out of his forearm) but still he can't quit. Otherwise he's a nice enough bloke.  I feel sorry for his mum, who he still lives with even though he's in his mid 40's. She's a sweetheart. She pretends everything Ok and covers up for him but he comes and tells me everything anyway. yes but you dont live with him...there in lies the difference....I have one coming here on Sat to do some work in my garden for me if it works out for him he has even been in jail..for holding up a shop at knife point for drugs.. he has been good but falls off the wagon here and there. hes my daughter in laws brother...who fell through the cracks at a very young age.....I have always had time for him... not sure why..but he does try and he is sorry for the pain hes caused another one who lives with just his long suffering mum....she has even come home to him tearing her settee to bits and staffing it with teatowels.when he had a bad dose...its like sitting back and watching a nightmare... Sorry to hear that Cods. I'm not a fan of junkies. But as long as they leave me alone, I'll leave them alone. Most of them are sorry for what they do Cods .... until they need another hit, then they'll do it all over again.

sadly fr this guy....Canberra is a small place and druggies have no trouble find them....we now have bikies here in almost every area...  hes doing his best to stay pff it  but after so many years??? the irony is he was in Jail for 5 years..then 2 more added when he was caught smoking weed...and he came out a worse addict than when he went in....nothing and I mean nothing was done to get him off it.....plus the turning the blind eye.....the jail here is worse than the streets

Some very stupid views on here.

Some substances are too dangerous to ever be made legal, it's that simple and saying that drug policy should be either totally zero tolerance or totally legal is just retarded.

The best policy which works is to decriminalise use, even decriminalise very low level dealing but maintain increasingly harsh penalties depending on size for the suppliers/importers.

In California despite weed being legal/regulated, there's still a huge amount of organised crime growing and distributing weed. 

America doesn't have a drug problem, it has a poverty problem.

John Smith wrote on Sep 11^th, 2020 at 5:41pm:

cods wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 5:50pm: John Smith wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 5:34pm: cods wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 5:21pm: just the DAMAGE they cause... lots of things cause damage but are still legal cods. Sugar, Alcohol, peanuts for some etc. You'll never stop people from having bad reactions to things. What makes dugs worse is that often drug dealers use all sorts of crap to make their drugs stretch out .... paint stripper, nail polish remover, bleach are just a few of the things I've heard have been used but essentially they'll use whatever they happen to have laying around. Taking control of the drug industry allows us to control what gets put out. Why would anyone go buy a pill from a drug dealer that he made in his shed with who knows what, when you can go to a chemist and know that what you're getting is safe? what about speeding on the road... always always over a 1000 every year killed needlessly   should we legalise that as well or how about make car go no faster than 70...think of the savings there.. I dont think we have over a 1000 year in years out in overdoses do we? More than 2000 Aussies die every year from drug overdoses Cods. But thats a poo comparison .. whilst most people drive, most people do no do drugs. We control speeding on the roads cods, we don't make driving illegal for everyone because some die in accidents. Decriminalizing drugs allows us to control the drugs and takes the power and the money away from drug dealers.  You used to be able to buy Heroin over the counter (in the USA)  .. it was only once some politician saw it as a way to win votes that it became an issue. Again, making drugs illegal HAS NOT WORKED in over 50 years ...  not in any country including those that have the death penalty for drug dealers. How many more years must it fail before you're willing to try something new?

well its a bit like these anti vaxxers.......should we also make that legal to not have vaccinations ....which would affect many people ..


as has already been pointed out smoking is a dying art because its ALMOST INVISIBLE....and its a sin to smoke in company....yet if we make drugs available  and let them pay tax.....are we not saying COME ON IN GIVE IT A TRY NO HARM DONe

I dont know anymore   

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 9:36pm:

Agree, the problem is if we to ban any drug with no benefit and only problems then goes the VB and Winnie blues

Any drug that is banned has the appeal of it being illegal.

cods wrote on Sep 11^th, 2020 at 6:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 11th, 2020 at 5:41pm: cods wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 5:50pm: John Smith wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 5:34pm: cods wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 5:21pm: just the DAMAGE they cause... lots of things cause damage but are still legal cods. Sugar, Alcohol, peanuts for some etc. You'll never stop people from having bad reactions to things. What makes dugs worse is that often drug dealers use all sorts of crap to make their drugs stretch out .... paint stripper, nail polish remover, bleach are just a few of the things I've heard have been used but essentially they'll use whatever they happen to have laying around. Taking control of the drug industry allows us to control what gets put out. Why would anyone go buy a pill from a drug dealer that he made in his shed with who knows what, when you can go to a chemist and know that what you're getting is safe? what about speeding on the road... always always over a 1000 every year killed needlessly   should we legalise that as well or how about make car go no faster than 70...think of the savings there.. I dont think we have over a 1000 year in years out in overdoses do we? More than 2000 Aussies die every year from drug overdoses Cods. But thats a poo comparison .. whilst most people drive, most people do no do drugs. We control speeding on the roads cods, we don't make driving illegal for everyone because some die in accidents. Decriminalizing drugs allows us to control the drugs and takes the power and the money away from drug dealers.  You used to be able to buy Heroin over the counter (in the USA)  .. it was only once some politician saw it as a way to win votes that it became an issue. Again, making drugs illegal HAS NOT WORKED in over 50 years ...  not in any country including those that have the death penalty for drug dealers. How many more years must it fail before you're willing to try something new?  well its a bit like these anti vaxxers.......should we also make that legal to not have vaccinations ....which would affect many people .. as has already been pointed out smoking is a dying art because its ALMOST INVISIBLE....and its a sin to smoke in company....yet if we make drugs available  and let them pay tax.....are we not saying COME ON IN GIVE IT A TRY NO HARM DONe I dont know anymore

Even if made legal there will still be a flourishing black market and the argument that something made legal diminishes it's appeal is pure BS. Just look at grog and ciggies. In the last 10 years smoking has had a sharp decline but prior to that, when I was in my late teens everyone smoked and drank hard.

I'm 100% up for total legalisation of MJ, and I'd like for psychiatry to be able to experiment with psychedelics, but the synthetic concoctions coming out of filthy labs in China, anyone who reckons that schit should be legal has no clue.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 11^th, 2020 at 6:09pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 9:36pm: Agree, the problem is if we to ban any drug with no benefit and only problems then goes the VB and Winnie blues Any drug that is banned has the appeal of it being illegal.

Ever been to a pub on a Friday night? Is beer banned?

Drugs have appeal because they either have a desirable effect, or they don't.

cods wrote on Sep 11^th, 2020 at 6:05pm:

....should we also make that legal to not have vaccinations ...

It is perfectly legal to not have vaccinations. There is no law to say you must have them.


Gordon wrote on Sep 11^th, 2020 at 6:25pm:

Even if made legal there will still be a flourishing black market and the argument that something made legal diminishes it's appeal is pure BS. Just look at grog and ciggies.

yeah ... there are dealers selling winnie blues and VB  at every corner such is the appeal :D :D :D

John Smith wrote on Sep 11^th, 2020 at 6:54pm:

cods wrote on Sep 11th, 2020 at 6:05pm: ....should we also make that legal to not have vaccinations ...    It is perfectly legal to not have vaccinations. There is no law to say you must have them. Gordon wrote on Sep 11th, 2020 at 6:25pm: Even if made legal there will still be a flourishing black market and the argument that something made legal diminishes it's appeal is pure BS. Just look at grog and ciggies. yeah ... there are dealers selling winnie blues and VB  at every corner such is the appeal :D :D :D

You really are as stupid as the day in long.
Ever heard of petrol stations and Dan Murphy?


And as for weed in California...

‘Getting Worse, Not Better’: Illegal Pot Market Booming in California Despite Legalization

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/27/us/marijuana-california-legalization.html

Gordon wrote on Sep 11^th, 2020 at 7:02pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 11th, 2020 at 6:54pm: cods wrote on Sep 11th, 2020 at 6:05pm: ....should we also make that legal to not have vaccinations ...    It is perfectly legal to not have vaccinations. There is no law to say you must have them. Gordon wrote on Sep 11th, 2020 at 6:25pm: Even if made legal there will still be a flourishing black market and the argument that something made legal diminishes it's appeal is pure BS. Just look at grog and ciggies. yeah ... there are dealers selling winnie blues and VB  at every corner such is the appeal :D :D :D You really are as stupid as the day in long. Ever heard of petrol stations and Dan Murphy? And as for weed in California... ‘Getting Worse, Not Better’: Illegal Pot Market Booming in California Despite Legalization https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/27/us/marijuana-california-legalization.html

ohh, a year after legalising pot the dealers are still selling it ...  :D :D :D

In your case, the days run into months ........... only an idiot would think everything stops the day the law is passed.


Besides, there are other factors at play .... from your own link..... The struggles of the licensed pot market in California are distinct from the experience of other states that have legalized cannabis in recent years. Sales in Colorado, Oregon and Washington grew well above 50 percent for each of the first three years of legalization, although Oregon now also has a large glut of pot.

looks like turdie stepped in it AGAIN  ;D ;D ;D

Detectives on Tuesday investigated what prompted the Labor Day killings of seven people at an illegal marijuana growing operation in a small, rural Southern California community known for horse ranches and plant nurseries along dirt roads.

https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/nation-world/7-killings-investigated-at-illegal-pot-grow-in-california/5R7KMQYU3JDJZC5JE2VUXI2ZYM/

More than 42,000 illegal marijuana plants discovered recently on California public lands have been eradicated.

The Inyo County Sheriff’s Office announced Thursday that the street value of the plants was estimated at between $84 million and $169 million.

Vast groves of marijuana were discovered in three locations in Inyo County, a sprawling Eastern Sierra wilderness with the town of Independence as its county seat.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/08/massive-illegal-pot-farms-discovered-in-california-wilderness

Police Destroy 30,000 Illicit Cannabis Plants In California Raid

https://hightimes.com/news/police-destroy-30000-illicit-cannabis-plants-california-raid/

Water and wildlife in the nation's public forests are slowly being poisoned by insecticides and other chemicals used in illegal marijuana operations, say forest police and researchers. They warn that the potential environmental damage could last generations.

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/12/773122043/illegal-pot-grows-in-americas-public-forests-are-poisoning-wildlife-and-water

California’s Increasing Weed Taxes are Fueling Crime, Destroying Environment, and Killing Jobs

by Matt Agorist | Jan 5, 2020

https://libertarianinstiute.org/articles/californias-increasing-weed-taxes-are-fueling-crime-destroying-environment-and-killing-jobs/

Site can’t be found.

https://libertarianinstitute.org/articles/californias-increasing-weed-taxes-are-fueling-crime-destroying-environment-and-killing-jobs/

Read that article Monk. Your idea of legalising drugs with Govt oversight is just a utopian dream.

Once again my plan would be:

Weed totally legal for people to grow enough for person use wink wink and supply a few best friends. Limit of 10 plants?

No person would ever get busted for simple possession of any drug.

They would have a health assessment and be directed to some kind of clinic if required.

Large scale manufacturer or importers of dangerous drugs can rot in jail for eternity.

1. Where did I say “legalise all drugs?” Title of thread mentions decriminalisation.

2. We can learn from CA’s example, not? Don’t overtax.

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 11^th, 2020 at 8:40pm:

1. Where did I say “legalise all drugs?” Title of thread mentions decriminalisation. 2. We can learn from CA’s example, not? Don’t overtax.

So you'll allow someone to import and sell bath salts from a lab in China?

As bath salts? Why not?

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 11^th, 2020 at 8:46pm:

As bath salts? Why not?

You have no idea what I'm talking about. You have no idea about the synthetic drugs being pumped out of labs in China. Clueless.

You said bath salts. Stupid War on Drugs™ thinking saw pill testing stopped. Drugs ARE getting into the country now.

Gordon wrote on Sep 11^th, 2020 at 8:18pm:

https://libertarianinstitute.org/articles/californias-increasing-weed-taxes-are-fueling-crime-destroying-environment-and-killing-jobs/

isntthat so typical....its popular tax the hell out of it.....

all it will do is make other drugs more popular which I am sure are still available...and everyone can grow their own anyway.......

Australia is in the most virulent Region of the world.
Only fitting that Australia should economically be the biggest distributer of toxic and poisonous illicit drugs around the world. $$$ to be made.

OK, going for a walk, then will make a batch of seville orange marmalade.

Then I will post information about drug law liberalisation and decriminalisation—evidence based policies that are delivering real results.

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 14^th, 2020 at 6:45am:

OK, going for a walk, then will make a batch of seville orange marmalade. Then I will post information about drug law liberalisation and decriminalisation—evidence based policies that are delivering real results.

Don't forget your walking frame! ;D

It is not me with the emphysema, toots!

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 14^th, 2020 at 7:58am:

It is not me with the emphysema, toots!

I'm not the one whinging about aches and pains, you are!

where does one get seville oranges this time of the year?

he does whinge about a bad back.. but then that is self inflicted  all that sod turning.. ::) ::)

cods wrote on Sep 14^th, 2020 at 9:55am:

where does one get seville oranges this time of the year? he does whinge about a bad back.. but then that is self inflicted  all that sod turning.. ::) ::)

I only know navel oranges.  I definitely don't bother making marmalade (or eating the stuff).  Next he will be telling us all about apple butter - all health and welfare, I guess but shouldn't he be talking about this stuff in his Cats and Things MRB? :-?

cods wrote on Sep 10^th, 2020 at 9:24am:

Jasin wrote on Sep 10th, 2020 at 8:22am: There's money to be made in looking after Drug Addicts. Exploit and cash in. ;) as the article points out.. a lot of  people get the two confused...... you for instance sound as if this is a solution to people doing the wrong thing.......filling their bodies with poison... .how many drug addicts have you dealt with in your life???    mean real drug addicts...not Saturday all nighters.

Look. If some idiot want's to pump a toxic pill and has to have people like me deal with their 'problems', I'll make sure I get paid well for it. Other than that - they can drop dead for all I care. Personally, if they wanna die - they should be more constructive and visit a Mosque with a loaded vest.

Australia is looking to export a lethal party drug based on Redback venom. Reputed to attain the high level of having your brain smashed with a golden brick with a banana skin wrapped around it.
Hopefully we can pump heaps into China.

Atm - China is pumping Ice & Meths into Britain like the British pumped Opium into their populous. They've been one of our biggest importers of Ice, CDMA, Meths, etc with Columbia and Mexico.

Australia has the highest ratio of population that uses illicit drugs. Australia is a cash cow for overseas illicit Drug Dealers. No wonder the kids are being born all Wonky these days. Parents are polluted with all sorts of retardents in their systems - to carry into the unborn children. All these fragile eggshell allergy prone Aussie kids these days. All popping out Autistic-like.

Super Nova wrote on Sep 8^th, 2020 at 7:07pm:

ALL drugs should decriminalised I agree for users but not dealers of class A Make them available through legitimate government approved outlets, tax them and fund rehab.

decriminalise them. But still keep them tightly controlled

Australia is looking to export a lethal party drug based on Redback venom.



All I can find is evidence inmates did this. Wheres yours on the exportation thing.

Did US inmates do the same thing with the related Black Widow spider? Or is this truly indigenous?

Quote:

Decriminalisation When drug use and possession are decriminalised, criminal charges are not applied. Criminal charges are those brought against a person by police and legal practitioners on behalf of the government. They are managed through the court system.* If a person is found guilty and convicted, punishment may include jail time. The person will also have a criminal record. A criminal conviction can result in the breakdown of personal relationships and close off future employment, housing and travel options. For example, future employers may reject a job application because of a criminal record. A person with a criminal record may not be granted a visa to visit other countries. The stigma of a criminal record may cause mental anguish. Having a criminal record can severely impact on someone’s life. Decriminalisation may replace criminal penalties with civil penalties. These could include referral to an education or treatment program, or a fine. Civil cases do not have to go through the court system and may be dealt with by tribunals.1 While records may be kept by a tribunal, these are not criminal records and will not affect employment, housing, or travel opportunities. The key difference to a criminal model is that in a decriminalised model, while penalties still apply for use and possession of drugs, they are no longer criminal charges.     Decriminalisation is not legalisation. If drug possession and personal use are decriminalised, it is still illegal to possess and use drugs. Selling and manufacturing drugs still carry criminal penalties.

More here:-

https://adf.org.au/talking-about-drugs/law/decriminalisation/overview-decriminalisation-legalisation/

cods wrote on Sep 14^th, 2020 at 9:55am:

where does one get seville oranges this time of the year? he does whinge about a bad back.. but then that is self inflicted  all that sod turning.. ::) ::)

It is the season for Seville and blood oranges.

I do not whinge about a bad back. You just make sh1t up and spread it, eh cods?

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 14^th, 2020 at 7:03pm:

cods wrote on Sep 14th, 2020 at 9:55am: where does one get seville oranges this time of the year? he does whinge about a bad back.. but then that is self inflicted  all that sod turning.. ::) ::) It is the season for Seville and blood oranges. I do not whinge about a bad back. You just make sh1t up and spread it, eh cods?

Quote:

God, the self pity is still flowing in streams here! You think you are doing it so bad? You know nothing! I got arthritis in my right hip. Lots of pain. I had to close the doors of my home brew shop, just could not walk or stand on the cement slab floors there. A lot of the time only the computer and internet let me “talk” to people. I still walked my dog! I still did the shopping for me and Mum. I worked out pain management strategies. Bit of grit now and then. This was pain, inactivity, staying home WAY more than I wanted. I never felt the self pity some here blatantly display without shame. Indecent is what it is! You will get through this. NONE of you are as locked in at home like I was by pain! Show some dignity, some self respect! The spike is dropping rapidly, you will be able to do what you want soon enough!

Where do I mention my back, cods?

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 3:51am:

Where do I mention my back, cods?

Have you worked out what DECRIMINALISATION means yet? ::)


Quote:

Decriminalisation is not legalisation. If drug possession and personal use are decriminalised, it is still illegal to possess and use drugs. Selling and manufacturing drugs still carry criminal penalties.

I am glad you found a definition, harridan, because otherwise YOU would not have a clue.

I remind you, again, the title of this thread is: ALL drugs should be decriminalised

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 3:51am:

Where do I mention my back, cods?

ahh splitting hairs.... all I know is before I had my hip done my back killed me as well....and it still does from time to time....not sure what your hip is attached to....maybe your back is in a different place..

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 8:41am:

I am glad you found a definition, harridan, because otherwise YOU would not have a clue. I remind you, again, the title of this thread is: ALL drugs should be decriminalised

you are very insecure arent you?..

all nef is telling you is... if they were they would still be illegal.....so the real problem   importing drugs wont stop...making it easier for sick people to get sicker or stay sick....doesnt make for a healthy country...

I do not need a serial malicious doxxer to tell me anything! Understand, cods?

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 8:49am:

I do not need a serial malicious doxxer to tell me anything! Understand, cods?

I do she doesnt want you to engage with her either   she prefers grown ups  not dummy spitters... :) :)

understand mong!

She hangs out with you. Guess the harridan LOVES dummy spitters, you dummy spitter!

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 8:59am:

She hangs out with you. Guess the harridan LOVES dummy spitters, you dummy spitter!

Did you email the employer of a forum member trying to get them sacked?

No.

Gordon wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 9:16am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 15th, 2020 at 8:59am: She hangs out with you. Guess the harridan LOVES dummy spitters, you dummy spitter! Did you email the employer of a forum member trying to get them sacked?

something like that..  dont use words like email he will use it as an excuse to deny...

he even bragged about  getting in touch with someone at their work place...... was that the same thing as nefs????   she just put two and two together....seems pretty much the same with finding where a person worked.....


dont forget gordy    they only think its wrong if someone they dont like does it.... ;) ;)

Your post is reported, cods.

Gordon wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 9:16am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 15th, 2020 at 8:59am: She hangs out with you. Guess the harridan LOVES dummy spitters, you dummy spitter! Did you email the employer of a forum member trying to get them sacked?

Yes he did.

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 8:41am:

I am glad you found a definition, harridan, because otherwise YOU would not have a clue. I remind you, again, the title of this thread is: ALL drugs should be decriminalised

Let's get back ON TOPIC!

Read the rules of drugs in Canberra. Cannabis was decriminalised in the ACT in 1992.


Quote:

On 31 January 2020, we introduced new rules around personal use of cannabis in the ACT to help people get support and stay out of our justice system. Some rules have changed, and some have stayed the same.

Quote:

What are the changes? If you’re aged 18 and over in the ACT, you can now:     possess up to 50 grams of dried cannabis or up to 150 grams of fresh cannabis     grow up to two cannabis plants per person, with a maximum of four plants per household     use cannabis in your home (personal use). It’s now an offence to:     smoke or use cannabis in a public place     expose a child or young person to cannabis smoke     store cannabis where children can reach it     grow cannabis using hydroponics or artificial cultivation     grow plants where they can be accessed by the public.

Quote:

Some rules are still the same It’s still illegal:     to sell, share or give cannabis as a gift to another person     for people aged under 18 to grow, possess, or use cannabis     to drive with any cannabis in your system.

https://www.act.gov.au/cannabis/home

You have told enough lies, grub. No need to tell more.

There is a difference between DECRIMINALISED and LEGALISED. You need to understand the difference!

Neferti wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 10:11am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 15th, 2020 at 8:41am: I am glad you found a definition, harridan, because otherwise YOU would not have a clue. I remind you, again, the title of this thread is: ALL drugs should be decriminalised Let's get back ON TOPIC! Read the rules of drugs in Canberra. Cannabis was decriminalised in the ACT in 1992. Quote: On 31 January 2020, we introduced new rules around personal use of cannabis in the ACT to help people get support and stay out of our justice system. Some rules have changed, and some have stayed the same. [quote]What are the changes? If you’re aged 18 and over in the ACT, you can now:     possess up to 50 grams of dried cannabis or up to 150 grams of fresh cannabis     grow up to two cannabis plants per person, with a maximum of four plants per household     use cannabis in your home (personal use). It’s now an offence to:     smoke or use cannabis in a public place     expose a child or young person to cannabis smoke     store cannabis where children can reach it     grow cannabis using hydroponics or artificial cultivation     grow plants where they can be accessed by the public.

Quote:

Some rules are still the same It’s still illegal:     to sell, share or give cannabis as a gift to another person     for people aged under 18 to grow, possess, or use cannabis     to drive with any cannabis in your system.

https://www.act.gov.au/cannabis/home
[/quote]

bump!!!!

And, harridan? You think you have a point?

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 10:11am:

You have told enough lies, grub. No need to tell more.

Your serial doxxing is well known, Monk. No need to lie even more.

Nope. You are lying.

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 9:36am:

Your post is reported, cods.

why???.... only telling the truth pet... was it something I said???

I am only repeating what you have said on the forums......when you tell everyone your excuse for doing something.....thats when you give yourself away..

I might have to report all the things you have said about me this very morning....

You are telling lies and slandering me.

What have I sad this morning, cods? That you constantly whine and moan and carp all over the Forum and in Sparta?

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 10:44am:

What have I sad this morning, cods? That you constantly whine and moan and carp all over the Forum and in Sparta?

  yep that and other personal abuse.....what I say in sparta   you wouldnt have a clue about.....yet  your words are spoken all over the forum for all to read...

I only repeat what I have read on here.......I dont make it up like you do...

Other personal abuse—what personal abuse?

What makes you think I don’t know what is said in Sparta? I have it on excellent and up to date authority.

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 10:52am:

Other personal abuse—what personal abuse? What makes you think I don’t know what is said in Sparta? I have it on excellent authority.

here you go this is reported..its one of many..


Quote:

You post WAY too much drivel ALL over the board to skip your posts no matter how much we try. Drop the act of being a semi senile but nice old biddy, cods. It won’t wash! You are a nasty person and attempt to avoid censure for your nasty posts by pretending to be old and doddery. You aren’t.

you dont think that personal abuse... but then I DO>>


all I can say is your authority is having you on......no one can bare to talk about you there.....its all been said over and over.......you kid yourself..

no one is interested in you... believe me,..

Not personal abuse, anyone reading your drivel would agree.

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 11:00am:

Not personal abuse, anyone reading your drivel would agree.

it isnt compulsory for you to read it....I dont read yours in C&C.....until it is thats personal abuse..

Ohh no, you read in C&Cs alright!

This is my thread, I am about to post about places where drugs were decriminalised.

I have apologised to Kat for getting sucked into this stupid argument and suggest he peel off all posts from #78 on.

I was out yesterday so I will post the rest later today.

[media width=640]https://youtu.be/TEq0an0wB-Y[/media]

;D

China, Columbia and Mexico would just love to have their imports decriminalised to cash in on Australia: the highest ratio per population in the world of drug and alcohol users.
::) ::) ::)

ALL drugs should be decriminalised


Such a Juvenile Wank idea.

Date rape drugs?  Alcohol to 5 year olds?

Frank wrote on Jan 6^th, 2022 at 9:43pm:

ALL drugs should be decriminalised Such a Juvenile Wank idea. Date rape drugs?  Alcohol to 5 year olds?

All drugs?

No - and I have never advocated for that, either on this forum nor elsewhere..

Cannabis for over-18s, on the other hand, should definitely be legal.

And please don't bother embarrassing yourself by dragging up all the crap you usually regurgitate on this subject.

18 year olds are 'teenagers' - just like a 13 year old.
Therefore they are still 'kids'.

I don't think allowing 'kids' to do drugs is good.

Jasin wrote on Jan 8^th, 2022 at 7:52pm:

18 year olds are 'teenagers' - just like a 13 year old. Therefore they are still 'kids'. I don't think allowing 'kids' to do drugs is good.

Rubbish!

A 13-year-old can't go fight for his country. But we jail 18-year-olds who refuse to.

An 18-year-old has enough smarts to make the cannabis decision for themselves.

Kat wrote on Jan 17^th, 2022 at 6:25pm:

Jasin wrote on Jan 8th, 2022 at 7:52pm: 18 year olds are 'teenagers' - just like a 13 year old. Therefore they are still 'kids'. I don't think allowing 'kids' to do drugs is good. Rubbish! A 13-year-old can't go fight for his country. But we jail 18-year-olds who refuse to. An 18-year-old has enough smarts to make the cannabis decision for themselves.

Well,  you didn't......


::) ::) ::) ::)

The fatuous War on Drugs™ was lost the second it was declared. Just like Prohibition in the US didn’t work. A better approach should be found.

Frank wrote on Jan 17^th, 2022 at 8:50pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 6:25pm: Jasin wrote on Jan 8th, 2022 at 7:52pm: 18 year olds are 'teenagers' - just like a 13 year old. Therefore they are still 'kids'. I don't think allowing 'kids' to do drugs is good. Rubbish! A 13-year-old can't go fight for his country. But we jail 18-year-olds who refuse to. An 18-year-old has enough smarts to make the cannabis decision for themselves. Well,  you didn't...... ::) ::) ::) ::)

I'm sure you're trying to make some kind of a point here.

Mind telling us what it is?

Kat wrote on Jan 18^th, 2022 at 11:19am:

Frank wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 8:50pm: Kat wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 6:25pm: Jasin wrote on Jan 8th, 2022 at 7:52pm: 18 year olds are 'teenagers' - just like a 13 year old. Therefore they are still 'kids'. I don't think allowing 'kids' to do drugs is good. Rubbish! A 13-year-old can't go fight for his country. But we jail 18-year-olds who refuse to. An 18-year-old has enough smarts to make the cannabis decision for themselves. Well,  you didn't...... ::) ::) ::) ::) I'm sure you're trying to make some kind of a point here. Mind telling us what it is?

You obviously did have the smarts to refrain from too much dope.


And no 18 year old is jailed for refusing to defend the country. Conscription ended 50 years ago, in your lifetime but you don't remember... :'(

Drugs are not a good way to enjoy life.
Drugs have their place, for medication or to aid in healing.

But they are not for recreation.
They destroy lives.
They destroy your health
They destroy your mental capability

Someone who "Needs" drugs to enjoy themselves have a serious problem.

Alcohol alone accounts for many destroyed lives, murders, deaths on the road and ill health resulting in an early grave.
But drugs are more insidious, not as obvious, but seriously more troublesome.

I have lost friends and family to drug abuse.
I have seen the families fall apart as they try to help.
Its not just the selfish users that suffer, the pain is carried to parents, partners, children and even strangers.

My good friend went through hell when his daughter was addicted.
She got to the stage she was injecting into her own eyeball to get a quicker, longer high.
It blinded her, she sold her body, she lost her soul, to some foul animal that profited from her and her families pain.
Eventually she died, many years ago, but the friend has still not recovered, he blames himself.
But at least the pusher is also dead.
Someone injected him with air filled needles and left him to die.

Drug pushers should be put down
Drug abusers dried out in the most painful way possible to discourage re-addiction.
Anyone profiting from drugs should be put down painfully.
And any crops shoukd be napalmed and then the land liberally dosed in agent orange.

Kat wrote on Jan 17^th, 2022 at 6:25pm:

Jasin wrote on Jan 8th, 2022 at 7:52pm: 18 year olds are 'teenagers' - just like a 13 year old. Therefore they are still 'kids'. I don't think allowing 'kids' to do drugs is good. Rubbish! A 13-year-old can't go fight for his country. But we jail 18-year-olds who refuse to. An 18-year-old has enough smarts to make the cannabis decision for themselves.

Don't be stupid all your life confusing political 'laws' with the natural behaviour and growth of children. Political Laws can be wrong and detrimental. Nature isn't!

Maybe you're a book publisher and by calling them young (then) adults, you can exploit a new $$ market?

Remember, 18 year olds are still at 'school' as 13 year olds - both are still 'kids' by the Educational System.

Your youth Kat, must have been like a pre-mature ejaculation if you thought you were mature enough before you reached 20.  ;D

Kat wrote on Jan 17^th, 2022 at 6:25pm:

Jasin wrote on Jan 8th, 2022 at 7:52pm: 18 year olds are 'teenagers' - just like a 13 year old. Therefore they are still 'kids'. I don't think allowing 'kids' to do drugs is good. Rubbish! A 13-year-old can't go fight for his country. But we jail 18-year-olds who refuse to. An 18-year-old has enough smarts to make the cannabis decision for themselves.

Says who?

Jasin wrote on Jan 8^th, 2022 at 7:52pm:

18 year olds are 'teenagers' - just like a 13 year old. Therefore they are still 'kids'. I don't think allowing 'kids' to do drugs is good.

A thirteen-year-old is given leniency for any considered crime they commit. They are given leniency until they are 16 years old. And whatever a 13y.o. say that is considered illegal in adulthood would only be considered convictable if the prosecution can prove that there was illegal intent behind what was said.

A person 18 (or 19) years of age has matured enough to know the law and have a clear understanding of right and wrong. Drug usage for an early teenager might lead to impairment of their developing body. Drug usage for an adult would lead to impairment of their body. In either case, drugs should not be available to them.

A teenager is a Child.
That includes 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 year olds.
It's a law of nature that over-rides any religious, political or military excuses of exploitation.

As one 19 year old who got all tough with me, found out when I didn't put my BIG AUSSIE HANDS on him, via his 'emotional blackmail' of being a 'kid' - when my female friend 'Big Momma Tofu from Tonga' came and bitchslapped his sorry arse around. ;D

Turn 20 and any smart-arse gets his jaw broken. ;)
But most 20 year olds are 'adult' enough and smart enough not to use 'emotional blackmail' as a 'kid' to be a smart arse. :-X

I wish I had that kind of leniency when I was 12 years old and a teacher said that he wanted to have me beaten up for some classmate's idiocy.

I agree, the drug that has done the most damaged to m life is legal, booze.

It kills more people of all other drugs combined.

The drug that got me to stop drinking was LSD.

But because it is not legal it can be difficult to get.

With all the stupid bans last year and stupid irrelevant crap posted I see I never posted stuff about decriminalisation of drugs. I will get back to this, no idea when tho, what with packing up the house and arranging somewhere to stay until buying a house in Tassie and coping with being executor to Mum’s will etc etc.

Felt like making some pasta—but the bloody pasta machine is packed up! Do I try making some using a rolling pin? Not going to get it uniformly thin enough for ravioli and in any case the pasta bike and ravioli former are packed up.

Hmmmm lasagne with spinach filling? Can buy some bocconcini in the local supermart and have cheddar cheese, (Italian) parmesan cheese and sachets “pizza sauce” plus tomatoes.

Yeah, reckon lasagna be a nice idea!

Jovial Monk wrote on May 25^th, 2022 at 10:52am:

With all the stupid bans last year and stupid irrelevant crap posted I see I never posted stuff about decriminalisation of drugs. I will get back to this, no idea when tho, what with packing up the house and arranging somewhere to stay until buying a house in Tassie and coping with being executor to Mum’s will etc etc. Felt like making some pasta—but the bloody pasta machine is packed up! Do I try making some using a rolling pin? Not going to get it uniformly thin enough for ravioli and in any case the pasta bike and ravioli former are packed up. Hmmmm lasagne with spinach filling? Can buy some bocconcini in the local supermart and have cheddar cheese, (Italian) parmesan cheese and sachets “pizza sauce” plus tomatoes. Yeah, reckon lasagna be a nice idea!

I cook most things by hand but I have a machine to make pasta.  Too much hard work

I have not had pasta in months. I had planned on a sweet and sour chicken for an upcoming meal (and then leftovers for the next few nights). But, I forgot half the ingredients to make the meal. Forgot the celery, capsicum, pineapple (!!!), and a few other items. I did have the chicken, fish sauce and oyster sauce, with the noodles to go with the flour, sugar and almonds I have at home. I got out of the supermarket last night and realised that I had forgotten to purchase chicken stock. I was too proud to turn around and go back inside the Woolies. So, I went and filled up my car at the service station. Then I drove down to IGA and got a $1 stock cubes packet. Drove around to Red Rooster and purchased a meal from there for the first time in a month. It ended up being a good end to the night.

UnSubRocky wrote on May 25^th, 2022 at 2:42pm:

I have not had pasta in months. I had planned on a sweet and sour chicken for an upcoming meal (and then leftovers for the next few nights). But, I forgot half the ingredients to make the meal. Forgot the celery, capsicum, pineapple (!!!), and a few other items. I did have the chicken, fish sauce and oyster sauce, with the noodles to go with the flour, sugar and almonds I have at home. I got out of the supermarket last night and realised that I had forgotten to purchase chicken stock. I was too proud to turn around and go back inside the Woolies. So, I went and filled up my car at the service station. Then I drove down to IGA and got a $1 stock cubes packet. Drove around to Red Rooster and purchased a meal from there for the first time in a month. It ended up being a good end to the night.

I go back into woolies most days :P

I tend to follow a recipe to make curries but for most other things, just wing it with whatever I have on hand