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Member Run Boards >> Defence >> A new attack chopper for the Army
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Message started by Brian Ross on Jan 15th, 2021 at 1:12pm

Title: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Brian Ross on Jan 15th, 2021 at 1:12pm
Apache confirmed as Tiger ARH replacement

Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Bobby. on Jan 15th, 2021 at 1:17pm
The Commonwealth has announced it has selected the Boeing AH-64E Apache Guardian attack helicopter to replace the Australian Army’s fleet of 22 Airbus Tiger armed reconnaissance helicopters under Project LAND 4503.


Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Brian Ross on Jan 15th, 2021 at 2:26pm
It is an expected result.  Logistically, the Tigers were a disaster the Apaches will be better from that respect.  Politically?  Not too sure.

Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Bobby. on Jan 15th, 2021 at 2:35pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_AH-64_Apache



In July 2019, Australia's Capability Acquisition and Sustainment Group issued a request for information to replace the Tiger helicopters, despite the 2016 White Paper suggesting all problems with the Tiger to be resolved and were to receive a $1–2 billion Mid Life Upgrade.[288] As a part of the Australian Army's Land 4503, Boeing has offered Australia 29 AH-64E Helicopters that would reach full operating capability by 2029.[289]




AH-64E Apache Guardian


Formerly known as AH-64D Block III, in 2012, it was redesignated as AH-64E Guardian to represent its increased capabilities.[308][309] The AH-64E features improved digital connectivity, the Joint Tactical Information Distribution System, more powerful T700-GE-701D engines with upgraded face gear transmission to accommodate more power,[310] capability to control unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), full IFR capability, and improved landing gear.[311][312] New composite rotor blades, which successfully completed testing in 2004, increase cruise speed, climb rate, and payload capacity.[313] Deliveries began in November 2011.[314]

Full-rate production was approved on 24 October 2012,[315] with 634 AH-64Ds to be upgraded to AH-64E standard and production of 56 new-build AH-64Es to start in 2019/20.[316] Changes in production lots 4 through 6 shall include a cognitive decision aiding system and new self-diagnostic abilities. The updated Longbow radar has an oversea capacity, potentially enabling naval strikes; an AESA radar is under consideration.[317] The E model is to be fit for maritime operations.[318]

The Army has expressed a desire to add extended-range fuel tanks to the AH-64E to further increase range and endurance.[137] AH-64Es are to have the L-3 Communications MUM-TX datalink installed in place of two previous counterparts, communicating on C, D, L, and Ku frequency bands to transmit and receive data and video with all Army UAVs.[319] Lots 5 and 6 will be equipped with Link 16 data-links.[320] As of April 2020, 500 AH-64E have been delivered

Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Captain Nemo on Jan 15th, 2021 at 6:02pm
Apache ?

Oh no ... too racist!!!  ;D

How about Cheers attack helicopter?  ;)

Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Ye Grappler on Jan 17th, 2021 at 1:36am
Should've had 'em years ago.  Same as when the Guv bought F/A-18s - heavy on the juice and half the payload was taken up in fuel tanks..... for the same price could have had the same number of F-16 squadrons and the same number of A-10s again (the US sold NO A-10s overseas, for good reason) - dedicated ground attack aircraft.

But the 18s had two engines....... and were sexy...

Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Brian Ross on Jan 18th, 2021 at 5:49pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 17th, 2021 at 1:36am:
Should've had 'em years ago.  Same as when the Guv bought F/A-18s - heavy on the juice and half the payload was taken up in fuel tanks..... for the same price could have had the same number of F-16 squadrons and the same number of A-10s again (the US sold NO A-10s overseas, for good reason) - dedicated ground attack aircraft.

But the 18s had two engines....... and were sexy...


They could also operate BVR missiles, land attack missiles, ARM and other munitions, which the F-16 could not.  The two engines were thought necessary because they were expected to be operating far from shore, protecting the fleet because the MELBOURNE was being retired.  The F-15 was too expensive and couldn't do diddly squat in attacking ground targets.  The F-16 was a lightweight fighter and it showed (at the time) being only able to carry WiVR missiles and dumb bombs. ::)

Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Bobby. on Jan 18th, 2021 at 5:53pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 5:49pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 17th, 2021 at 1:36am:
Should've had 'em years ago.  Same as when the Guv bought F/A-18s - heavy on the juice and half the payload was taken up in fuel tanks..... for the same price could have had the same number of F-16 squadrons and the same number of A-10s again (the US sold NO A-10s overseas, for good reason) - dedicated ground attack aircraft.

But the 18s had two engines....... and were sexy...


They could also operate BVR missiles, land attack missiles, ARM and other munitions, which the F-16 could not.  The two engines were thought necessary because they were expected to be operating far from shore, protecting the fleet because the MELBOURNE was being retired.  The F-15 was too expensive and couldn't do diddly squat in attacking ground targets.  The F-16 was a lightweight fighter and it showed (at the time) being only able to carry WiVR missiles and dumb bombs. ::)



Brian -
let me educate you -


The f-16s carried a huge payload to bomb the Iraqi reactors.


A flight task force of Israeli F-16s deliver an airstrike to Iraq's nuclear reactor in Operation Opera, 1981.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFObTJxFuWI


Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Brian Ross on Jan 18th, 2021 at 6:11pm
Dumb bombs, Bobby.  Dumb bombs.  Tsk, tsk.   ::) ::)

Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Bobby. on Jan 18th, 2021 at 6:25pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 6:11pm:
Dumb bombs, Bobby.  Dumb bombs.  Tsk, tsk.   ::) ::)



I think they were guided smart bombs but
there is no information I can find about what they used.
I read a report once that said they came from France.

Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Brian Ross on Jan 18th, 2021 at 8:28pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 6:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 6:11pm:
Dumb bombs, Bobby.  Dumb bombs.  Tsk, tsk.   ::) ::)


I think they were guided smart bombs but
there is no information I can find about what they used.
I read a report once that said they came from France.


Nope, dumb bombs:


Quote:
The attack squadron consisted of eight F-16As, each with two unguided Mark-84 2,000-pound delay-action bombs.

Source

::) ::)

Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Bobby. on Jan 18th, 2021 at 9:25pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 8:28pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 6:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 6:11pm:
Dumb bombs, Bobby.  Dumb bombs.  Tsk, tsk.   ::) ::)


I think they were guided smart bombs but
there is no information I can find about what they used.
I read a report once that said they came from France.


Nope, dumb bombs:


Quote:
The attack squadron consisted of eight F-16As, each with two unguided Mark-84 2,000-pound delay-action bombs.

Source

::) ::)



I'm not sure if that source is true?
The fact that all 16 bombs landed right on the target
is not normal for dumb bombs.  ::)

Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Bobby. on Jan 18th, 2021 at 9:33pm
Also Brian - your source says:


Quote:
The purchase also included a smaller accompanying Isis-type reactor, the sale of 72 kilograms of 93% enriched uranium



That would be weapons grade Uranium 235.
There is no way that France would have give Saddam that.    ::) ::)

Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Brian Ross on Jan 18th, 2021 at 9:42pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 9:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 8:28pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 6:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 6:11pm:
Dumb bombs, Bobby.  Dumb bombs.  Tsk, tsk.   ::) ::)


I think they were guided smart bombs but
there is no information I can find about what they used.
I read a report once that said they came from France.


Nope, dumb bombs:


Quote:
The attack squadron consisted of eight F-16As, each with two unguided Mark-84 2,000-pound delay-action bombs.

Source

::) ::)



I'm not sure if that source is true?
The fact that all 16 bombs landed right on the target
is not normal for dumb bombs.  ::)



Quote:
At least eight of the sixteen released bombs struck the containment dome of the reactor
Source

That is a 50% failure rate, Bobby.   ::) ::)

Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Bobby. on Jan 18th, 2021 at 9:45pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 9:42pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 9:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 8:28pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 6:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 6:11pm:
Dumb bombs, Bobby.  Dumb bombs.  Tsk, tsk.   ::) ::)


I think they were guided smart bombs but
there is no information I can find about what they used.
I read a report once that said they came from France.


Nope, dumb bombs:


Quote:
The attack squadron consisted of eight F-16As, each with two unguided Mark-84 2,000-pound delay-action bombs.

Source

::) ::)



I'm not sure if that source is true?
The fact that all 16 bombs landed right on the target
is not normal for dumb bombs.  ::)


[quote]At least eight of the sixteen released bombs struck the containment dome of the reactor
Source

That is a 50% failure rate, Bobby.   ::) ::)[/quote]


The video I posted claimed all 16 bombs hit their target.

Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Brian Ross on Jan 18th, 2021 at 9:51pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 9:33pm:
Also Brian - your source says:


Quote:
The purchase also included a smaller accompanying Isis-type reactor, the sale of 72 kilograms of 93% enriched uranium



That would be weapons grade Uranium 235.
There is no way that France would have give Saddam that.    ::) ::)


It is sufficient for one nuclear bomb, plus a bit left over.  Hardly earth shattering...  ::) ::)

Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Brian Ross on Jan 18th, 2021 at 9:53pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 9:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 9:42pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 9:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 8:28pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 6:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 6:11pm:
Dumb bombs, Bobby.  Dumb bombs.  Tsk, tsk.   ::) ::)


I think they were guided smart bombs but
there is no information I can find about what they used.
I read a report once that said they came from France.


Nope, dumb bombs:


Quote:
The attack squadron consisted of eight F-16As, each with two unguided Mark-84 2,000-pound delay-action bombs.

Source

::) ::)


I'm not sure if that source is true?
The fact that all 16 bombs landed right on the target
is not normal for dumb bombs.  ::)


[quote]At least eight of the sixteen released bombs struck the containment dome of the reactor
Source

That is a 50% failure rate, Bobby.   ::) ::)


The video I posted claimed all 16 bombs hit their target.[/quote]

Who believes what YouTube videos claim, Bobby?  Only fools.  ::) ::)



Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Bobby. on Jan 18th, 2021 at 9:59pm
A bit more info.
Saddam punished failure:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera#Attack

In response to their failures to prevent the Osirak attack (and the earlier H-3 attack), Saddam Hussein ordered the execution of the head of Iraq's Western Air Defense Zone, Colonel Fakhri Hussein Jaber and all officers under his command above the rank of major. In addition, 23 other Iraqi pilots and officers were imprisoned.[54]


https://theaviationist.com/2017/06/07/operation-opera-the-israeli-air-strike-on-an-iraqi-nuclear-reactor/

Having recovered from his shocked surprise and weighed down by dread, the next day Colonel Fakhri Hussein Jaber is hanged in a public execution along with his fellow officers. Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has them executed for incompetence while failing to defend the most important strategic target in the country. It was the big Iraqi hope for building a nuclear weapons program.

Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Bobby. on Jan 18th, 2021 at 10:02pm



more here:
https://www.angelfire.com/art2/narod/opera/

Title: Re: A new attack chopper for the Army
Post by Bobby. on Jan 18th, 2021 at 10:05pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 9:51pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 18th, 2021 at 9:33pm:
Also Brian - your source says:


Quote:
The purchase also included a smaller accompanying Isis-type reactor, the sale of 72 kilograms of 93% enriched uranium



That would be weapons grade Uranium 235.
There is no way that France would have give Saddam that.    ::) ::)


It is sufficient for one nuclear bomb, plus a bit left over.  Hardly earth shattering...  ::) ::)



It wouldn't happen - it's not possible.

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