What was the point in our going there, in the first place?
::) ::)

the point was that the defense contractors needed some excuse to get their hands on  taxpayers funds.

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 25^th, 2021 at 4:27pm:

What was the point in our going there, in the first place? ::) ::)

I have said a thousand times....well I have quoted a very senior Army Officer......."to hold the hand of the Yanks and make big rocks into little rocks."

Nifty, wot?

Afghan translators who helped military flown to Australia on protection visas ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 25^th, 2021 at 4:27pm:

What was the point in our going there, in the first place? ::) ::)

None whatsoever. Unfortunately this does not go down well with some people. I mentioned on another site that our involvement had been a waste of lives, time and money and was only for political purposes.

This was immediately challenged by many who pointed out things like numbers of enemy killed, roads, bridges, schools and hospitals built, children attending school, Afghan National Army personnel trained etc.  I asked how long these things would last once our forces left. The replies ranged from ludicrously optimistic to questioning my right to ask such questions in the first place ::)   

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 25^th, 2021 at 4:27pm:

What was the point in our going there, in the first place? ::) ::)

To kill Al Qaida. Which was done swiftly.

But then we got bitten by the 'inclusive' bug and imagined that they are just like us.   Had to give up on that delusion after 20 years.

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 25^th, 2021 at 6:01pm:

Afghan translators who helped military flown to Australia on protection visas ::) ::)

I'm glad the govt. finally came good on this. I was worried they'd abandon them.

John Smith wrote on Jun 25^th, 2021 at 6:36pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 25th, 2021 at 6:01pm: Afghan translators who helped military flown to Australia on protection visas ::) ::) I'm glad the govt. finally came good on this. I was worried they'd abandon them.

I agree. We mustn't be an 80 % friend and ally.

Belgarion wrote on Jun 25^th, 2021 at 6:08pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 25th, 2021 at 4:27pm: What was the point in our going there, in the first place? ::) ::) None whatsoever. Unfortunately this does not go down well with some people. I mentioned on another site that our involvement had been a waste of lives, time and money and was only for political purposes. This was immediately challenged by many who pointed out things like numbers of enemy killed, roads, bridges, schools and hospitals built, children attending school, Afghan National Army personnel trained etc.  I asked how long these things would last once our forces left. The replies ranged from ludicrously optimistic to questioning my right to ask such questions in the first place ::)

Our influence was always going to be limited.  The question is whether that influence was worth the numbers of Australians maimed, killed.  Personally, I doubt it.  The real problem is that most people do not understand the Afghani way of thinking.  I don't.  Do you?

Probably we wouldn't understand the British mind of 1788 or earlier. A generation or two ago, females had little education here. Many jobs were forbidden and single mothers had their kids stolen.  There's another change happening these days in Parliament with abuses.

Frank wrote on Jun 25^th, 2021 at 6:08pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 25th, 2021 at 4:27pm: What was the point in our going there, in the first place? ::) ::) To kill Al Qaida. Which was done swiftly.

Of course it was. Thats why the Taliban  currently control 75 percent of the country.

rhino wrote on Jun 25^th, 2021 at 9:57pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 25th, 2021 at 6:08pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jun 25th, 2021 at 4:27pm: What was the point in our going there, in the first place? ::) ::) To kill Al Qaida. Which was done swiftly. Of course it was. Thats why the Taliban  currently control 75 percent of the country.

Different muslims

Vietnam was 8 years. Afghanistan 20. It takes longer to lose, these days. Napalm bombing in Vietnam produced protests which Afghanistan doesn't (since 1839).

John Smith wrote on Jun 25^th, 2021 at 4:39pm:

the point was that the defense contractors needed some excuse to get their hands on  taxpayers funds.

You have probably the best explanation so far. But, the main reason was to reinforce an alliance with the United States.

Frank wrote on Jun 25^th, 2021 at 6:08pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 25th, 2021 at 4:27pm: What was the point in our going there, in the first place? ::) ::) To kill Al Qaida. Which was done swiftly. But then we got bitten by the 'inclusive' bug and imagined that they are just like us.   Had to give up on that delusion after 20 years.

The United States is in charge of Al Quaeda. The United States would not shut down their own terrorist organisation.

Frank wrote on Jun 25^th, 2021 at 10:19pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 25th, 2021 at 9:57pm: Frank wrote on Jun 25th, 2021 at 6:08pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jun 25th, 2021 at 4:27pm: What was the point in our going there, in the first place? ::) ::) To kill Al Qaida. Which was done swiftly. Of course it was. Thats why the Taliban  currently control 75 percent of the country. Different muslims

No, they arent. Check your facts.

Last US troops leave Afghanistan's Bagram airbase following almost 20 years since start of conflict sparked by 9/11 ::) ::)

20 years conflict sparked by GWB's desire to deflect attention away from his acquisition of Iraqi oil.

US left Afghanistan's Bagram Airfield at night without telling the new Afghan commander ::) ::)

"Geez, it is awfully quiet with no one with an American accent around the airfield", one might think.

Taliban's hold on Afghanistan tightens as foreign troops withdraw ::) ::)

No oil pipe needed through Afghanistan?

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 6^th, 2021 at 11:14pm:

US left Afghanistan's Bagram Airfield at night without telling the new Afghan commander ::) ::)

Don’t worry, I’m sure they’ll tell us when they’re about to leave Pine Gap.

Taliban could take Afghan capital Kabul within 90 days, says US intelligence  ::) ::)

.United States sending extra troops back into Afghanistan to help evacuate embassy in Kabul  ::) ::)

Fear as deadly advance of Taliban across Afghanistan intensifies, government organising to remove Australians ::) ::)

Australian military to evacuate hundreds from Afghanistan as Taliban heads toward assault on Kabul ::) ::)

Taliban edges closer to Afghanistan capital Kabul, launches attacks on key northern city of Mazar-i-Sharif ::) ::)

I have been reading some of the comments on Pineapple Express. (Facebook)  There are still posters attempting to convince themselves that they have achieved something worthwhile or even that they somehow 'won'.   

One even commented that every Taliban fighter killed by Australian forces was one less to trouble us in the future. Pointing out that these losses had been replaced twice over and the replacements were now riding around in brand new Humvees is not a popular position with some.

Taliban begin entering Afghan capital Kabul from all sides after seizing city of Jalalabad :o

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 15^th, 2021 at 11:53pm:

Taliban begin entering Afghan capital Kabul from all sides after seizing city of Jalalabad :o

Where does this leave the planned evacuation of Australian diplomatic staff and aid workers, along with the Afghans who assisted the ADF? 

Belgarion wrote on Aug 16^th, 2021 at 8:40am:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 15th, 2021 at 11:53pm: Taliban begin entering Afghan capital Kabul from all sides after seizing city of Jalalabad :o Where does this leave the planned evacuation of Australian diplomatic staff and aid workers, along with the Afghans who assisted the ADF?

Afghanistan evacuation mission being urgently assessed as Kabul falls to Taliban
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/5736/dVMX4n.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/6614/wnK9qn.jpg

:o ::)

Oh, dear, if true...The world must not look away as the Taliban sexually enslaves women and girls.  Why I say, "if true", is there was an interesting analysis of Taliban's previous rule in Afghanistan on RN's Background Briefing.  Seems they weren't as popular as the Islamophobes assume and many of their decrees were basically ignored because of that unpopularity...  The end comment was, there appears to be disconnection between what the Taliban's commanders on the ground want and what the Taliban leadership wants.. ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2021 at 1:36pm:

Oh, dear, if true...The world must not look away as the Taliban sexually enslaves women and girls.  Why I say, "if true", is there was an interesting analysis of Taliban's previous rule in Afghanistan on RN's Background Briefing.  Seems they weren't as popular as the Islamophobes assume and many of their decrees were basically ignored because of that unpopularity...  The end comment was, there appears to be disconnection between what the Taliban's commanders on the ground want and what the Taliban leadership wants.. ::) ::)

I see the ABC commentator calls upon the UN to scold the Taliban unless they introduce the rights for women she has laid out for them.  ::)    It does seem however, that the vast majority of Afghans are quite happy with the Taliban seizing control of the country and seeing the infidel invaders of their land.   

Not to say that the Taliban are nice people, but they are apparently what the Afghans want.

Belgarion wrote on Aug 16^th, 2021 at 2:37pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16th, 2021 at 1:36pm: Oh, dear, if true...The world must not look away as the Taliban sexually enslaves women and girls.  Why I say, "if true", is there was an interesting analysis of Taliban's previous rule in Afghanistan on RN's Background Briefing.  Seems they weren't as popular as the Islamophobes assume and many of their decrees were basically ignored because of that unpopularity...  The end comment was, there appears to be disconnection between what the Taliban's commanders on the ground want and what the Taliban leadership wants.. ::) ::) I see the ABC commentator calls upon the UN to scold the Taliban unless they introduce the rights for women she has laid out for them.  ::)    It does seem however, that the vast majority of Afghans are quite happy with the Taliban seizing control of the country and seeing the infidel invaders of their land.    Not to say that the Taliban are nice people, but they are apparently what the Afghans want.

Some Afghans, primarily Pushtuns.  Pushtuns are only approximately 48% of the Afghan population...

Afghanistan evacuation 'far too slow', says former Australian Defence Force chief who led war effort ::) ::)

Australian military rescue mission to Afghanistan to proceed 'when situation allows' :o

'Terrible scenes' at Kabul airport make Australian rescue mission of hundreds unclear  ::) ::)

Joe Biden isn't backing away from his decision on Afghanistan, but questions will linger over the hasty US withdrawal  ::) ::)

Gee, thats a huge help, ScoMo.  Your marketing background doesn't appear to be helping you or the Afghans at the moment... ::) ::)

Satellite images capture the chaos at Kabul’s airport ::) ::)

Former solider speaks of heartbreak over deteriorating situation in Afghanistan ::) ::)

The Afghan Taliban have changed 'drastically' since they were last in power 20 years ago, experts say ::) ::)

Taliban urge women to join government as flights evacuate more diplomats from Kabul ::) ::)

What is your strategy/argument now, Brian? Defend the Taliban?

UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 18^th, 2021 at 12:24am:

What is your strategy/argument now, Brian? Defend the Taliban?

Nope.  Would you care to provide a quote where I have done that, with a link of course? Or would it be too difficult to do as I have never defended any Terrorist organisation...   ::) ::)

RAAF mission to rescue Australians from Kabul underway, plane seen on radar after leaving Afghanistan airspace - lets hope they get away with it... ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18^th, 2021 at 11:56am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 12:24am: What is your strategy/argument now, Brian? Defend the Taliban? Nope.  Would you care to provide a quote where I have done that, with a link of course? Or would it be too difficult to do as I have never defended any Terrorist organisation...   ::) ::)

Perhaps you could go over to the "falling into place" forum topic where you seem to defend Islamic terrorism left, right and centre. "Tsk, tsk". Accusations of Islamophobia because moses criticises Islamic terrorism. Lots of yawning emojis as if we should not have to entertain the threat of Islamic terrorism. Take your pick of which post you posted there where you defended Islamic terrorism.

UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 18^th, 2021 at 12:42pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 11:56am: UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 12:24am: What is your strategy/argument now, Brian? Defend the Taliban? Nope.  Would you care to provide a quote where I have done that, with a link of course? Or would it be too difficult to do as I have never defended any Terrorist organisation...   ::) ::) Perhaps you could go over to the "falling into place" forum topic where you seem to defend Islamic terrorism left, right and centre. "Tsk, tsk". Accusations of Islamophobia because moses criticises Islamic terrorism. Lots of yawning emojis as if we should not have to entertain the threat of Islamic terrorism. Take your pick of which post you posted there where you defended Islamic terrorism.

You are welcome to criticise Terrorists to your heart's content.  You are not welcome to criticise Muslims (in general).  There needs to be on the poster's part a clear difference between the two groups - which there is.  Unfortunately, all too often, the defence of Muslims is perceived by Islamophobes as a defence of Terrorists.  It isn't though.  Tsk, tsk.   ::) ::)

That's a relief...Afghanistan rescue flight carrying Australians lands in UAE, with more Kabul evacuation missions planned 8-)

Somehow, I just don't believe him...Afghanistan not entirely a failure, says John Howard, who first committed Australian troops ::) ::)

Taliban leader expected in Kabul as evacuation efforts from Afghanistan gather pace ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18^th, 2021 at 3:11pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 12:42pm: Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 11:56am: UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 12:24am: What is your strategy/argument now, Brian? Defend the Taliban? Nope.  Would you care to provide a quote where I have done that, with a link of course? Or would it be too difficult to do as I have never defended any Terrorist organisation...   ::) ::) Perhaps you could go over to the "falling into place" forum topic where you seem to defend Islamic terrorism left, right and centre. "Tsk, tsk". Accusations of Islamophobia because moses criticises Islamic terrorism. Lots of yawning emojis as if we should not have to entertain the threat of Islamic terrorism. Take your pick of which post you posted there where you defended Islamic terrorism. You are welcome to criticise Terrorists to your heart's content.  You are not welcome to criticise Muslims (in general).  There needs to be on the poster's part a clear difference between the two groups - which there is.  Unfortunately, all too often, the defence of Muslims is perceived by Islamophobes as a defence of Terrorists.  It isn't though.  Tsk, tsk.   ::) ::)

Moses has made it clear that he is posting about Muslims who commit acts of terrorism. Not Muslims in general. If he mistook a Muslim woman for a mailbox and poked her in the eye with his letter, then it would be reasonable for others to say that Moses is a critic of Islam in general. But, they might not be able to say that without looking over their shoulders first.

Meanwhile, I can say what I like without the consequence of being killed. But, I still have to be careful about what I say to who. I can be critical of Islam. The Afghanis cannot. But, I bet Moses does not care to label all Muslims bad people.

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18^th, 2021 at 9:03pm:

Somehow, I just don't believe him...Afghanistan not entirely a failure, says John Howard, who first committed Australian troops ::) ::)

Imagine the disgust that 41 families of soldiers of the Australian army have for the Afghani people for not taking the reigns and leading their country to a new constructive foundation anytime in the last 20 years. I swear I recall the Afghanis saying after the United States drove away the Taliban that they did not want the United States around anymore. 2,312 American soldiers lost their lives helping the Afghanis regroup and rebuild. 457 soldiers from the British army lost their lives. Britain being very influential in the region had made a commitment to ending the foothold of world terrorism.

And then we saw on the news a woman fleeing Kabul. But, she had time to criticise the USA for leaving Afghanistan after a 20 year presence. And yet, she does not want to stay and fight for her country.

Interesting...More Australians and Afghans evacuated from Kabul, first flight from UAE scheduled

Oh, dear...The Taliban say they will preserve women's rights under sharia law. But what does that mean?  :o

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18^th, 2021 at 3:12pm:

That's a relief...Afghanistan rescue flight carrying Australians lands in UAE, with more Kabul evacuation missions planned 8-)

with 26 passengers? Scummo takes a bigger entourage with him when he goes on holidays... pathetic

UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 19^th, 2021 at 12:59am:

Imagine the disgust that 41 families of soldiers of the Australian army have for the Afghani people for not taking the reigns and leading their country to a new constructive foundation anytime in the last 20 years. I swear I recall the Afghanis saying after the United States drove away the Taliban that they did not want the United States around anymore. 2,312 American soldiers lost their lives helping the Afghanis regroup and rebuild. 457 soldiers from the British army lost their lives. Britain being very influential in the region had made a commitment to ending the foothold of world terrorism.

you CANNOT make a country follow your preferred government. They have to want it. The USA could stay there for 50 years the end result will be the same, just with different faces. Until they want it bad enough that they're willing to fight for and make the changes themselves, anything we do is pissing in the wind.

Evacuation flight carrying Australians and Afghan interpreters set to arrive in Perth 8-)

John Smith wrote on Aug 19^th, 2021 at 7:20pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 19th, 2021 at 12:59am: Imagine the disgust that 41 families of soldiers of the Australian army have for the Afghani people for not taking the reigns and leading their country to a new constructive foundation anytime in the last 20 years. I swear I recall the Afghanis saying after the United States drove away the Taliban that they did not want the United States around anymore. 2,312 American soldiers lost their lives helping the Afghanis regroup and rebuild. 457 soldiers from the British army lost their lives. Britain being very influential in the region had made a commitment to ending the foothold of world terrorism. you CANNOT make a country follow your preferred government. They have to want it. The USA could stay there for 50 years the end result will be the same, just with different faces. Until they want it bad enough that they're willing to fight for and make the changes themselves, anything we do is pissing in the wind.

What are all the complaints about by Afghanis against the USA exiting the region? Are Afghanis that pathetic that they have no concept of trying to make a go of making a nation of their own?

In 20 years, nothing much has been established other than to show Afghanis be nothing more than layabout survivors. I would like to hear veteran soldiers who have spent at least 5 years in Afghanistan tell their stories about the attitudes of the Afghanis in cities or towns. Are they building a nation? I swear that I have heard better stories of development from the East Timorese. Then again, there were reports that the East Timorese were useless islanders with nothing better to do with their lives.

Good...Rescue flight lands in Perth carrying Afghanistan evacuees including Australians and interpreters

Now, the excuses begin...Defence forces unable to operate past Taliban's Kabul airport barricades, Prime Minister warns  ::) ::)

Interesting...As countries evacuate Kabul, China, Russia and Pakistan remain in Afghanistan — for now  ::) ::)

Oh, dear...Mental health concerns for veterans due to Afghanistan turmoil

Interesting, just like after the fall of Saigon...The Taliban's new armoury of US-made equipment includes planes, guns and night-vision goggles ::)

UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 19^th, 2021 at 11:34pm:

What are all the complaints about by Afghanis against the USA exiting the region?

some are willing to stand up to the taliban, but not enough to make any real difference. They're the ones most likely to be targeted first by the taliban and the ones who don't want the US to leave for that very reason

Former AFP officers make urgent plea for evacuation of interpreters from Afghanistan ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 20^th, 2021 at 5:13pm:

Interesting, just like after the fall of Saigon...The Taliban's new armoury of US-made equipment includes planes, guns and night-vision goggles ::)

The good news is that much of it will soon be U/S due to lack of maintenance.

John Smith wrote on Aug 20^th, 2021 at 8:42pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 19th, 2021 at 11:34pm: What are all the complaints about by Afghanis against the USA exiting the region? some are willing to stand up to the taliban, but not enough to make any real difference. They're the ones most likely to be targeted first by the taliban and the ones who don't want the US to leave for that very reason

The Taliban military number about as many as the Australian army. Even if one in every one hundred Afghanis trained to be a soldier, the numbers alone (irrespective of quality) would have taken down the Taliban. 55,000 Afghanis have died fighting against the Taliban. All of a sudden, the Afghanis do not want to fight anymore because of the withdrawal of the United States Air Force?

Belgarion wrote on Aug 20^th, 2021 at 8:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 20th, 2021 at 5:13pm: Interesting, just like after the fall of Saigon...The Taliban's new armoury of US-made equipment includes planes, guns and night-vision goggles ::) The good news is that much of it will soon be U/S due to lack of maintenance.

They won't have the trained men to pilot or use them or maintain them.  Unlike Vietnam they will value religious observance over technical ability.  They will be like Iran was in the first year after the revolution. ::) ::)

UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 20^th, 2021 at 9:40pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 20th, 2021 at 8:42pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 19th, 2021 at 11:34pm: What are all the complaints about by Afghanis against the USA exiting the region? some are willing to stand up to the taliban, but not enough to make any real difference. They're the ones most likely to be targeted first by the taliban and the ones who don't want the US to leave for that very reason The Taliban military number about as many as the Australian army. Even if one in every one hundred Afghanis trained to be a soldier, the numbers alone (irrespective of quality) would have taken down the Taliban. 55,000 Afghanis have died fighting against the Taliban. All of a sudden, the Afghanis do not want to fight anymore because of the withdrawal of the United States Air Force?

which takes us back to my original point.... until the maqjority want a change and are prepared to fight for it themselves, the taliban will rule. Moving western forces in to force change won't change that, it only delays everything but the amount of time the west stays there.

Good...Dozens more Australians and Afghans airlifted out of Kabul airport after Taliban takeover 8-)

Hundreds escape Afghanistan on four RAAF flights out of Kabul ::)

Ungrateful bastards -  Australia denies visas to Afghans who helped guard embassy in Kabul :o >:(

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 12:57pm:

Hundreds escape Afghanistan on four RAAF flights out of Kabul ::) Ungrateful bastards -  Australia denies visas to Afghans who helped guard embassy in Kabul :o >:(

I'm fairly sure Migration Agents will be few and far between in Kabul, but this seems to have escaped the public servant who composed this stock reply.

You all know my stance on illegal immigrants and dodgy asylum seekers.  In this situation however it's necessary to take most applications at face value and evacuate the applicants ASAP, with the proviso that if anything untoward shows up in checks down the track the application will be rejected.   

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 20^th, 2021 at 12:44pm:

Good...Rescue flight lands in Perth carrying Afghanistan evacuees including Australians and interpreters Now, the excuses begin...Defence forces unable to operate past Taliban's Kabul airport barricades, Prime Minister warns  ::) ::)

Well... no... Oz has withdrawn on a deal, and is now only providing local security for those able to get to the airport.  Bad luck for those who can't get there.

However, remember the 'mission creep' from sending US Marines to protect Da Nang airbase .... in another vein, this reminds me of Rwanda with the ROE being that unless attacked, no weapons may be used, regardless of what is clearly visible from the perimeter.  Protection of civilians being attacked and murdered was not reason sufficient to open fire.

No wonder the ROTW thinks the 'civilised' West that plays by silly rules is decadent and weak.  To them chopping a head or a boob or a neck with a machete is 'strong'.....cavemen are like that...

We subject our troops to rigid investigation and trial for killing possible and potential enemies - did the Taliban ever try any of theirs for killing innocents etc?  No - they give them the Allah'U Akbar Medal for Conspicuous Islamist Bravery Under No Fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXnDH4aMlng

British military says seven Afghans killed in chaos at Kabul airport ::) ::)

Good - RAAF flights out of Kabul bring 470 to safety, as Taliban strengthen hold in Afghanistan 8-)

Pregnant Afghan woman fleeing Taliban goes into labour during US evacuation flight 8-)

Afghan interpreter's family evacuated by US as Kabul airport chaos prevents some Australians from leaving  :o

It was nauseous watching the beginning 30 mins of Question Time today with the exception that acknowledgements to the ADF were due and appropriate.  But......

To attempt to explain  away a complete failure with powder puff references to 'freedom is always worth fighting for' is bullshit rhetoric.  Labour had a chance to rip an LNP arsehole but did not even get close in the grandiose shallow self serving wallowing.

Oh, dear - Desperate pleas as Australians in Afghanistan make failed attempts to reach flights out of Kabul  >:(

John Smith wrote on Aug 21^st, 2021 at 1:12pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 20th, 2021 at 9:40pm: John Smith wrote on Aug 20th, 2021 at 8:42pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 19th, 2021 at 11:34pm: What are all the complaints about by Afghanis against the USA exiting the region? some are willing to stand up to the taliban, but not enough to make any real difference. They're the ones most likely to be targeted first by the taliban and the ones who don't want the US to leave for that very reason The Taliban military number about as many as the Australian army. Even if one in every one hundred Afghanis trained to be a soldier, the numbers alone (irrespective of quality) would have taken down the Taliban. 55,000 Afghanis have died fighting against the Taliban. All of a sudden, the Afghanis do not want to fight anymore because of the withdrawal of the United States Air Force? which takes us back to my original point.... until the maqjority want a change and are prepared to fight for it themselves, the taliban will rule. Moving western forces in to force change won't change that, it only delays everything but the amount of time the west stays there.

The Afghanis were willing to fight the Taliban, as the Americans pointed out, and made great sacrifices to get to where they were by the end of 2020. But, as the president at the time (Trump) said May 2021, and Biden said September 11, 2021 for the complete withdrawal of American troops, it became an advertisement for the Afghanis to just give up on fighting. They would not have the air support or the ability to find hidden opponents as well as they could without the Americans backing the Afghanis fighting the Taliban.

I can imagine the Pakistanis giving implicit support militarily and adding manpower in some kind of stealth attempt against the Western-aligned governmental powers in Afghanistan. I figure that the Pakistanis are trying to be as recalcitrant as possible without being knowingly recalcitrant, if ever there was a term for that. The decline of Russia as a superpower. The support of China with helping the Pakistanis. The growing hate for the Americans in the region. The Saudis using their control of oil fields. I can imagine that the Afghanis simply have no choice in surrender.

Oh, dear - RAAF flights ferry another 650 out of Afghanistan in mass Kabul airlift as Taliban's 'red line' for withdrawal approaches  :o

Ex-Australian embassy guards and families left standing in sewage waiting evacuation from Taliban-controlled Kabul :o

Newcastle family flees Afghanistan on Australian evacuation flight 8-)

Ungrateful bastards - Afghan interpreter rejected for protection visa evacuated to the Netherlands  :o

Oh, dear...'No bright future': Afghan women share their concerns for a future under Taliban rule ::)

Oh, dear - Kabul airport evacuation facing 'very, very credible' threat of terrorist attack, UK minister says  :o

Bugger me, the Poms were right - Kabul international airport bombing leaves 60 dead, Afghan officials say; Australia suspends evacuation mission    :o

Who is ISIS-K? Here's what we know about the Islamic State offshoot in Afghanistan accused of planning the Kabul airport bombing  ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18^th, 2021 at 3:11pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 12:42pm: Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 11:56am: UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 12:24am: What is your strategy/argument now, Brian? Defend the Taliban? Nope.  Would you care to provide a quote where I have done that, with a link of course? Or would it be too difficult to do as I have never defended any Terrorist organisation...   ::) ::) Perhaps you could go over to the "falling into place" forum topic where you seem to defend Islamic terrorism left, right and centre. "Tsk, tsk". Accusations of Islamophobia because moses criticises Islamic terrorism. Lots of yawning emojis as if we should not have to entertain the threat of Islamic terrorism. Take your pick of which post you posted there where you defended Islamic terrorism. You are welcome to criticise Terrorists to your heart's content.  You are not welcome to criticise Muslims (in general).  There needs to be on the poster's part a clear difference between the two groups - which there is.  Unfortunately, all too often, the defence of Muslims is perceived by Islamophobes as a defence of Terrorists.  It isn't though.  Tsk, tsk.   ::) ::)

;D ;D

That why another group of muslims - not Taliban - sent in suicide bombers around the Kabul airport?

ISIS aka Al Qeada

All terrorists.

In Afghanistan your averages as to who is what is pretty poor.

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 27^th, 2021 at 8:25am:

Bugger me, the Poms were right - Kabul international airport bombing leaves 60 dead, Afghan officials say; Australia suspends evacuation mission    :o Who is ISIS-K? Here's what we know about the Islamic State offshoot in Afghanistan accused of planning the Kabul airport bombing  ::)

 
The Afghanistan branch - pretty easy to figure.

Gnads wrote on Aug 27^th, 2021 at 7:28pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 3:11pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 12:42pm: Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 11:56am: UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 12:24am: What is your strategy/argument now, Brian? Defend the Taliban? Nope.  Would you care to provide a quote where I have done that, with a link of course? Or would it be too difficult to do as I have never defended any Terrorist organisation...   ::) ::) Perhaps you could go over to the "falling into place" forum topic where you seem to defend Islamic terrorism left, right and centre. "Tsk, tsk". Accusations of Islamophobia because moses criticises Islamic terrorism. Lots of yawning emojis as if we should not have to entertain the threat of Islamic terrorism. Take your pick of which post you posted there where you defended Islamic terrorism. You are welcome to criticise Terrorists to your heart's content.  You are not welcome to criticise Muslims (in general).  There needs to be on the poster's part a clear difference between the two groups - which there is.  Unfortunately, all too often, the defence of Muslims is perceived by Islamophobes as a defence of Terrorists.  It isn't though.  Tsk, tsk.   ::) ::) ;D ;D That why another group of muslims - not Taliban - sent in suicide bombers around the Kabul airport? ISIS aka Al Qeada All terrorists. In Afghanistan your averages as to who is what is pretty poor.

Al Q'aeda is separate to the Taliban.
ISIS is separate to Al Q'aeda,  QED.

Good...Afghan evacuation flights resume as death toll from Kabul airport bombing passes 100 8-)

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 27^th, 2021 at 9:20pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 27th, 2021 at 7:28pm: Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 3:11pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 12:42pm: Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 11:56am: UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 12:24am: What is your strategy/argument now, Brian? Defend the Taliban? Nope.  Would you care to provide a quote where I have done that, with a link of course? Or would it be too difficult to do as I have never defended any Terrorist organisation...   ::) ::) Perhaps you could go over to the "falling into place" forum topic where you seem to defend Islamic terrorism left, right and centre. "Tsk, tsk". Accusations of Islamophobia because moses criticises Islamic terrorism. Lots of yawning emojis as if we should not have to entertain the threat of Islamic terrorism. Take your pick of which post you posted there where you defended Islamic terrorism. You are welcome to criticise Terrorists to your heart's content.  You are not welcome to criticise Muslims (in general).  There needs to be on the poster's part a clear difference between the two groups - which there is.  Unfortunately, all too often, the defence of Muslims is perceived by Islamophobes as a defence of Terrorists.  It isn't though.  Tsk, tsk.   ::) ::) ;D ;D That why another group of muslims - not Taliban - sent in suicide bombers around the Kabul airport? ISIS aka Al Qeada All terrorists. In Afghanistan your averages as to who is what is pretty poor. Al Q'aeda is separate to the Taliban. ISIS is separate to Al Q'aeda,  QED.

All Islamic terrorists .... the inter-faction groups is irrelevant

the MO is the same.

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 25^th, 2021 at 4:27pm:

What was the point in our going there, in the first place? ::) ::)

Ask little Johnny he committed us to a war with dodgy evidence in the first place.

If a nation is to go to war when that nation itself is not under threat, the people should vote on it, cheaper than going to war, and the people have their say.

How can one man or woman decide for the whole nation to commit our troops half way round the world.

Is that democracy........????

Gnads wrote on Aug 28^th, 2021 at 8:30am:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 27th, 2021 at 9:20pm: Gnads wrote on Aug 27th, 2021 at 7:28pm: Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 3:11pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 12:42pm: Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 11:56am: UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 12:24am: What is your strategy/argument now, Brian? Defend the Taliban? Nope.  Would you care to provide a quote where I have done that, with a link of course? Or would it be too difficult to do as I have never defended any Terrorist organisation...   ::) ::) Perhaps you could go over to the "falling into place" forum topic where you seem to defend Islamic terrorism left, right and centre. "Tsk, tsk". Accusations of Islamophobia because moses criticises Islamic terrorism. Lots of yawning emojis as if we should not have to entertain the threat of Islamic terrorism. Take your pick of which post you posted there where you defended Islamic terrorism. You are welcome to criticise Terrorists to your heart's content.  You are not welcome to criticise Muslims (in general).  There needs to be on the poster's part a clear difference between the two groups - which there is.  Unfortunately, all too often, the defence of Muslims is perceived by Islamophobes as a defence of Terrorists.  It isn't though.  Tsk, tsk.   ::) ::) ;D ;D That why another group of muslims - not Taliban - sent in suicide bombers around the Kabul airport? ISIS aka Al Qeada All terrorists. In Afghanistan your averages as to who is what is pretty poor. Al Q'aeda is separate to the Taliban. ISIS is separate to Al Q'aeda,  QED. All Islamic terrorists .... the inter-faction groups is irrelevant the MO is the same.

The objectives are different though. ::) ::)

Ajax wrote on Aug 28^th, 2021 at 8:40am:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 25th, 2021 at 4:27pm: What was the point in our going there, in the first place? ::) ::) Ask little Johnny he committed us to a war with dodgy evidence in the first place. If a nation is to go to war when that nation itself is not under threat, the people should vote on it, cheaper than going to war, and the people have their say. How can one man or woman decide for the whole nation to commit our troops half way round the world. Is that democracy........????

It is what the Constitution allows.  The PM is charge of the Government and the Government is enpowered to determine the nation's Foreign Policy.   It appears you want to make Australia America.  Tsk, tsk.   ::) ::)

Really useful advice there...Home Affairs Minister Karen Andrews urges Australians in Afghanistan to 'go to a safe place' and wait for commercial flights ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 28^th, 2021 at 8:15pm:

Really useful advice there...Home Affairs Minister Karen Andrews urges Australians in Afghanistan to 'go to a safe place' and wait for commercial flights ::) ::)

What a dumbarse statement to make ... she should be stood down for being so stupid.

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 28^th, 2021 at 1:14pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 28th, 2021 at 8:30am: Brian Ross wrote on Aug 27th, 2021 at 9:20pm: Gnads wrote on Aug 27th, 2021 at 7:28pm: Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 3:11pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 12:42pm: Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 11:56am: UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 12:24am: What is your strategy/argument now, Brian? Defend the Taliban? Nope.  Would you care to provide a quote where I have done that, with a link of course? Or would it be too difficult to do as I have never defended any Terrorist organisation...   ::) ::) Perhaps you could go over to the "falling into place" forum topic where you seem to defend Islamic terrorism left, right and centre. "Tsk, tsk". Accusations of Islamophobia because moses criticises Islamic terrorism. Lots of yawning emojis as if we should not have to entertain the threat of Islamic terrorism. Take your pick of which post you posted there where you defended Islamic terrorism. You are welcome to criticise Terrorists to your heart's content.  You are not welcome to criticise Muslims (in general).  There needs to be on the poster's part a clear difference between the two groups - which there is.  Unfortunately, all too often, the defence of Muslims is perceived by Islamophobes as a defence of Terrorists.  It isn't though.  Tsk, tsk.   ::) ::) ;D ;D That why another group of muslims - not Taliban - sent in suicide bombers around the Kabul airport? ISIS aka Al Qeada All terrorists. In Afghanistan your averages as to who is what is pretty poor. Al Q'aeda is separate to the Taliban. ISIS is separate to Al Q'aeda,  QED. All Islamic terrorists .... the inter-faction groups is irrelevant the MO is the same. The objectives are different though. ::) ::)

You think? ::)

---

Gnads wrote on Aug 29^th, 2021 at 12:06pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 28th, 2021 at 1:14pm: Gnads wrote on Aug 28th, 2021 at 8:30am: Brian Ross wrote on Aug 27th, 2021 at 9:20pm: Gnads wrote on Aug 27th, 2021 at 7:28pm: Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 3:11pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 12:42pm: Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 11:56am: UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 18th, 2021 at 12:24am: What is your strategy/argument now, Brian? Defend the Taliban? Nope.  Would you care to provide a quote where I have done that, with a link of course? Or would it be too difficult to do as I have never defended any Terrorist organisation...   ::) ::) Perhaps you could go over to the "falling into place" forum topic where you seem to defend Islamic terrorism left, right and centre. "Tsk, tsk". Accusations of Islamophobia because moses criticises Islamic terrorism. Lots of yawning emojis as if we should not have to entertain the threat of Islamic terrorism. Take your pick of which post you posted there where you defended Islamic terrorism. You are welcome to criticise Terrorists to your heart's content.  You are not welcome to criticise Muslims (in general).  There needs to be on the poster's part a clear difference between the two groups - which there is.  Unfortunately, all too often, the defence of Muslims is perceived by Islamophobes as a defence of Terrorists.  It isn't though.  Tsk, tsk.   ::) ::) ;D ;D That why another group of muslims - not Taliban - sent in suicide bombers around the Kabul airport? ISIS aka Al Qeada All terrorists. In Afghanistan your averages as to who is what is pretty poor. Al Q'aeda is separate to the Taliban. ISIS is separate to Al Q'aeda,  QED. All Islamic terrorists .... the inter-faction groups is irrelevant the MO is the same. The objectives are different though. ::) ::) You think? ::)

I know.  I've read their raison de'entre statements.   Have you? ::) ::)

Afghanistan will now be used by the oligarchy to make war on Iran.

That is my prediction.

Thats why the yanks got out.

It has to be seen as though they did not instigate it.

Ajax wrote on Aug 29^th, 2021 at 2:37pm:

Afghanistan will now be used by the oligarchy to make war on Iran. That is my prediction. Thats why the yanks got out. It has to be seen as though they did not instigate it.

 
The Russians got out after 10 years

The Yanks & Allies stayed 20 years

now in the background the Ruskies & Chinese are helping the Taliban.

Now why would that be if it wasn't all about some sort of resource advantage? i.e. central asian oil & gas.

Afghanistan's economy on the brink of collapse after Taliban takeover ::) ::)

US will not discipline troops over 10 civilian drone deaths in Kabul, as Pentagon accused of 'absolving itself of accountability'   ::) ::)

Typical - Report says government should help Afghans who assisted Australian military   ::)