Lest we forget Charlie Wilson and how it all began...

From the Soviet invasion, to the Soviet Afghan slaughter fields, to Charlie Wilson, to the US abandonment of Afghanistan.

So, who was Charlie Wilson? He almost single-handedly brought the US into the war in Afghanistan against the Soviets in the mid 80's.

Charlie Wilson's War: Documentary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hU3r4q5CV8

For the Tom Hanks version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY4ORf4wqWE

Risible.


Charlie don't Netflix, pal.

Frank wrote on Aug 31^st, 2021 at 9:25pm:

Rusible. Charlie don't Netflix, pal.

And he don't sh!t no more. He dead.

Wisable, Agatha?

The US media are avoiding his story like a vampire from garlick.

Charlie Wilson hustled, from five million, to nearly a billion dollars to send to the Mujahadeen, arms to defeat the Soviets.

He helped end the Soviet Union but accidentally started a religious jihad which he blamed on the US not nation-building.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 31^st, 2021 at 9:28pm:

The US media are avoiding his story like a vampire from garlick.

Is that translated from russian, serbian, croat or romanian - or what?

What efnik discontentment are you not coming clean about?

Frank wrote on Aug 31^st, 2021 at 9:38pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 31st, 2021 at 9:28pm: The US media are avoiding his story like a vampire from garlick. Is that translated from russian, serbian, croat or romanian - or what? What efnik discontentment are you not coming clean about?

Aww, on the bitch again?

Time to defrost Agatha.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 31^st, 2021 at 9:14pm:

Lest we forget Charlie Wilson and how it all began... From the Soviet invasion, to the Soviet Afghan slaughter fields, to Charlie Wilson, to the US abandonment of Afghanistan.

It began when Jimmy Carter started funding Islamic holy warriors called the mujahideen with operation cyclone.

The fact is Democrats turned Afghanistan into an Islamic shithole.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

Pictures of Afghanistan in the 70s before Carter started funding the mujahideen.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=afghanistan+in+the+70s&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjrzoiBmdvyAhUUT30KHX6VDQMQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1094&bih=504

Under Biden the Taliban are much stronger today then 20 years ago there is footage of the Taliban hanging someone from a Blackhawk helicopter today.

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 31^st, 2021 at 9:49pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 31st, 2021 at 9:14pm: Lest we forget Charlie Wilson and how it all began... From the Soviet invasion, to the Soviet Afghan slaughter fields, to Charlie Wilson, to the US abandonment of Afghanistan. It began when Jimmy Carter started funding Islamic holy warriors called the mujahideen with operation cyclone. The fact is Democrats turned Afghanistan into an Islamic shithole. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

No. Prior to Wilson's involvement, the US minimally supported the Mujahideen with little money and substandard, old equipment.

What the Mujahideen needed was modern sophisticated weaponry (like stinger missiles) which, ultimately, Reagan provided. 

$20-30 million a year bought a lot of equipment in 1980.

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 31^st, 2021 at 9:58pm:

$20-30 million a year bought a lot of equipment in 1980.

No. The figure was five million.

Wilson doubled it to ten, which was still grossly inadequate for the Mujahideen to take on the Soviet Union...

This sent Wilson on a years-long crusade to do whatever he could to provide them with what they needed to defeat the Soviets, ultimately cajoling the Reagan Administration to spend nearly a billion dollars, much to the anger of the CIA and the Pentagon.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 31^st, 2021 at 9:38pm:

Charlie Wilson hustled, from five million, to nearly a billion dollars to send to the Mujahadeen, arms to defeat the Soviets. He helped end the Soviet Union but accidentally started a religious jihad which he blamed on the US not nation-building.

I think the Jihad started 1400 years ago. What changed last century was the world got smaller.

freediver wrote on Aug 31^st, 2021 at 10:16pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 31st, 2021 at 9:38pm: Charlie Wilson hustled, from five million, to nearly a billion dollars to send to the Mujahadeen, arms to defeat the Soviets. He helped end the Soviet Union but accidentally started a religious jihad which he blamed on the US not nation-building. I think the Jihad started 1400 years ago. What changed last century was the world got smaller.

Well... It's probably true to say that the defeat of the Soviet Union by the Mujahideen will rank as a victory as great as the fall of Constantinople...

Maybe history will write it up as even greater, given its asymmetric and ridiculous unlikelihood.

Interesting - just posted in another strand that all this US equipment will come in handy with the Chinese New Silk Road and their trying to take over 'Ghanistan for resources.

Can't see the Afghans coming at that one..... they don't like outsiders running their show.... very touchy about it.  Might see a lot of dead Chinkers...


"I come in peace."

"Then go in pieces!"

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 1^st, 2021 at 1:01am:

Interesting - just posted in another strand that all this US equipment will come in handy with the Chinese New Silk Road and their trying to take over 'Ghanistan for resources. Can't see the Afghans coming at that one..... they don't like outsiders running their show.... very touchy about it.  Might see a lot of dead Chinkers...

Yes. There should be no reason to doubt that the religious, tribal and ethnic factions within Afghanistan don't tolerate foreigners...

But there are a couple of problems...

Whoever rules Afghanistan needs funding to do it.

The quickest way to secure funding would be to allow other nations to exploit the mineral resources within the country and there's no shortage of major players who are up for that, like: China, Russia, India, the US and even Pakistan; which means there will be pressure on all sides to secure deals. However, the more deals done with foreigners, the more likely are uprisings against the Taliban.

I'd bet that whoever get the deals will need to deal to Ahmad Massoud in Panjshir. Whoever misses out will probably support him in his struggle against the Pashtun Taliban.

Politics as usual, Afghanistan style.

Wilson!!??

freediver wrote on Aug 31^st, 2021 at 10:16pm:

I think the Jihad started 1400 years ago. What changed last century was the world got smaller.

If by smaller you’re implying overpopulated don’t worry, our species innate vicious tribalism will soon solve that problem.

Quote:

Whoever rules Afghanistan needs funding to do it.

Only if they intend to lift people out of poverty and ignorance. It does not take a lot of funding to close down half the schools. The Taliban won't have a problem with Afghans living hand to mouth, and they have demonstrated that you don't need an expensive military when you have a lot of people who are happy to die and slaughter their fellow citizens for the cause. It will be a race to the bottom.


Ayn Marx wrote on Sep 1^st, 2021 at 8:31am:

freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2021 at 10:16pm: I think the Jihad started 1400 years ago. What changed last century was the world got smaller. If by smaller you’re implying overpopulated don’t worry, our species innate vicious tribalism will soon solve that problem.

Humans are literally defined by their ability to cooperate in large groups.

freediver wrote on Sep 1^st, 2021 at 8:32am:

Quote: Whoever rules Afghanistan needs funding to do it. Only if they intend to lift people out of poverty and ignorance. It does not take a lot of funding to close down half the schools. The Taliban won't have a problem with Afghans living hand to mouth, and they have demonstrated that you don't need an expensive military when you have a lot of people who are happy to die and slaughter their fellow citizens for the cause. It will be a race to the bottom.

And also if you want to purchase military equipment and also have reserve cash for bribes and payments to currently allied factions...

And also, to ensure they have the essentials other than food, like electricity and water.

The Taliban's status would be greatly diminished if they didn't control the cash, because if not them, then other factions will find a way to secure it.

American stupidity never ceases to amaze.
Acording to experts who spoke to MIT Technology Review, the greater threat is from Afghan government databases. These contain sensitive personal information that could be used to identify millions of people around the country. These were created in 2016 to reduce paycheck fraud involving fake identities, or “ghost soldiers,” and now contain records about every member of the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police. There was no deletion policy—not even in contingency situations, such as a Taliban takeover.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 1^st, 2021 at 8:39am:

freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2021 at 8:32am: Quote: Whoever rules Afghanistan needs funding to do it. Only if they intend to lift people out of poverty and ignorance. It does not take a lot of funding to close down half the schools. The Taliban won't have a problem with Afghans living hand to mouth, and they have demonstrated that you don't need an expensive military when you have a lot of people who are happy to die and slaughter their fellow citizens for the cause. It will be a race to the bottom. And also if you want to purchase military equipment and also have reserve cash for bribes and payments to currently allied factions... And also, to ensure they have the essentials other than food, like electricity and water. The Taliban's status would be greatly diminished if they didn't control the cash, because if not them, then other factions will find a way to secure it.

And also petrol, diesel and other fuels.

An Australian in-joke in the movie, 'Charlie Wilson's War', was that they'd named the character of the CIA Pakistan / Afghanistan operations chief as Harold Holt!!

Directly after 9-11, the U.S. determined, that Osama Bin-Laden had been behind it.

The U.S. knew he was being given sanctuary in Afghanistan, by the Taliban.

THE PROBLEM;
The Taliban said they would NOT surrender Osama Bin-Laden, to the U.S.

So, how to compel the Taliban to surrender Osama Bin-Laden ?

This was a problem which was so, so solvable !

So, so easy.


.


Directly after 9-11, back in 2001, 'the Afghanistan problem' was, could have been, a very simple problem to solve.

So, so easy.

And, it would have involved very minimal intentional Afghan casualties.

At the Duntroon military college a senior student exam question could have been given;
Asking how to force the Taliban to surrender Osama Bin-Laden,
1/ with minimal resource expenditure, and
2/ with very minimal intentional Afghan casualties.

I'm sure some of those students could have proposed a very similar solution, to the one that came to my mind.


.


I didn't attend Duntroon military college, but i can see how to accomplish that task.

And to accomplish it very simply, and with very minimal intentional Afghan casualties.

And accomplish it probably, in less than 20 weeks, from initiation.

Yadda wrote on Sep 1^st, 2021 at 11:46am:

This was a problem which was so, so solvable ! So, so easy.

Everything's easy for those who don't have to do it...

Like any fool can tell you how to run the country, so long as they're not politicians and not in power.

Taliban: "Americans have all the watches but we have all the time."



https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/08/Front_Cover-25.jpg

;D

---

Ayn Marx wrote on Sep 1^st, 2021 at 8:50am:

American stupidity never ceases to amaze. Acording to experts who spoke to MIT Technology Review, the greater threat is from Afghan government databases. These contain sensitive personal information that could be used to identify millions of people around the country. These were created in 2016 to reduce paycheck fraud involving fake identities, or “ghost soldiers,” and now contain records about every member of the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police. There was no deletion policy—not even in contingency situations, such as a Taliban takeover.

:o :o

Makes you wonder how they ever get to the position to make these policies when they're obviously a bunch of morons

Isn't Julian Assange headed for life in the big house for betraying US sympathisers' identities?

Gore Vidal, a leading US columnist, put it very bluntly:

“As it proved, the conquest of Afghanistan had nothing to do with Osama. He was simply a pretext for replacing the Taliban with a relatively stable government that would allow Union Oil of California to lay its pipeline for the profit of, among others, the Cheney-Bush junta.”

https://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/EnemyWithin.html

wombatwoody wrote on Sep 7^th, 2021 at 12:14pm:

Gore Vidal, a leading US columnist, put it very bluntly: “As it proved, the conquest of Afghanistan had nothing to do with Osama. He was simply a pretext for replacing the Taliban with a relatively stable government that would allow Union Oil of California to lay its pipeline for the profit of, among others, the Cheney-Bush junta.” https://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/EnemyWithin.html

So no-one actually cared about 9/11?

Frank wrote on Aug 31^st, 2021 at 9:38pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 31st, 2021 at 9:28pm: The US media are avoiding his story like a vampire from garlick. Is that translated from russian, serbian, croat or romanian - or what? What efnik discontentment are you not coming clean about?

The bit about you apologizing for head-hacking Saudis, Trump arms deals, cutting off the Kurds, and virtue, so much virtue.

Intelligence and integrity, innit.

freediver wrote on Sep 7^th, 2021 at 4:20pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Sep 7th, 2021 at 12:14pm: Gore Vidal, a leading US columnist, put it very bluntly: “As it proved, the conquest of Afghanistan had nothing to do with Osama. He was simply a pretext for replacing the Taliban with a relatively stable government that would allow Union Oil of California to lay its pipeline for the profit of, among others, the Cheney-Bush junta.” https://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/EnemyWithin.html So no-one actually cared about 9/11?

What sound does a jellyfish make?

freediver wrote on Aug 31^st, 2021 at 10:16pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 31st, 2021 at 9:38pm: Charlie Wilson hustled, from five million, to nearly a billion dollars to send to the Mujahadeen, arms to defeat the Soviets. He helped end the Soviet Union but accidentally started a religious jihad which he blamed on the US not nation-building. I think the Jihad started 1400 years ago. What changed last century was the world got smaller.

Sykes/Picot, the Cold War, the clash of civilisations, colonialism ended far too soon.

Don't forget, you're down as supporting each and every one of Uncle's little post-2001 pity parties. At least the old boy has the gall to feign white man's burden.

You feign Freeeeeedom.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 1^st, 2021 at 10:17am:

An Australian in-joke in the movie, 'Charlie Wilson's War', was that they'd named the character of the CIA Pakistan / Afghanistan operations chief as Harold Holt!!

Wait until you see your own name or a relative's name used in a movie....... I do the same with my books - sometimes take real people's names and use them... Bernard Cornwell's character's name Richard Sharpe is the name of the son of one of his friends... even Harrison Ford is the name of a merchant banker from the 1800's....

I've done a double take to see a rellie's name in some movie...

Nothing unusual.

Winston Churchill described it best when he said, except at the times of sowing and harvesting, a continual state of feud exists. Tribe wars with tribe. The people of one valley fight those of the next. There is an Afghan joke: an angel is sent to Earth to grant a wish to one person from each country on condition that whatever they want, their neighbour gets twice of the same thing. People in most countries say we don’t mind whatever you’re giving to our neighbours as long as you give me what I wish. When it came to the Afghan, he requested the angel pluck out one of his eyes. That about sums it up.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 8^th, 2021 at 2:19am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 1st, 2021 at 10:17am: An Australian in-joke in the movie, 'Charlie Wilson's War', was that they'd named the character of the CIA Pakistan / Afghanistan operations chief as Harold Holt!! Wait until you see your own name or a relative's name used in a movie....... I do the same with my books - sometimes take real people's names and use them... Bernard Cornwell's character's name Richard Sharpe is the name of the son of one of his friends... even Harrison Ford is the name of a merchant banker from the 1800's.... I've done a double take to see a rellie's name in some movie... Nothing unusual.

True for sure... Didn't Dickens collect odd and interesting surnames of real people for his characters?

But, given Holt's backstory, it's an in-joke...

So it wasn't a Soviet sub that picked him up from that beach... It was the CIA.

What did the U.S. government actually do in Afghanistan and Iraq?  Only the things it really cares to or knows how to do—namely, richly to hire its favorite people to try reshaping mankind in their own image. Since WWII, whether in the name of anti-communism, anti-terrorism, democracy, or humanitarianism, it’s always the same: dismiss the substance of local quarrels; recast the local scene in terms of American elites’ concerns; find locals who agree, and form “coalition governments” that, supposedly, represent the people’s aspirations, regardless of what these might be; send in the American experts on everything from education to women’s rights, with their recipes and their billions of dollars; and treat as terrorists any locals who disagree strongly. 

Of the many reasons why this formula has always produced rejection, one is enough to explain the rest. The U.S. formula is purely administrative and even mercenary. It is without soul, wholly abstracting from traditions and affections, never mind from religion and systems of justice. Over the globe, through millennia, people have come together on a bewildering variety of bases. Seldom has mere administration served that purpose, even if competent, especially if by foreigners, and especially if in contradiction to customs.

https://americanmind.org/memo/graveyard-of-narratives/

Great article, well worth reading it all.

Quote:

Of the many reasons why this formula has always produced rejection

You sure about that?

freediver wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2021 at 7:10pm:

Quote: Of the many reasons why this formula has always produced rejection You sure about that?

Yeah, I am very sure about that. Are you sure about what you are not sure about, fd? Or are you sure about what you are not sure about me being not sure about, fd?




There seemed to be no use in waiting by the little door, so she went back to the table, half hoping she might find another key on it, or at any rate a book of rules for shutting people up like telescopes: this time she found a little bottle on it, (`which certainly was not here before,' said Alice,) and round the neck of the bottle was a paper label, with the words `DRINK ME' beautifully printed on it in large letters.


It was all very well to say `Drink me,' but the wise little Alice was not going to do that in a hurry. `No, I'll look first,' she said, `and see whether it's marked "poison" or not'; for she had read several nice little histories about children who had got burnt, and eaten up by wild beasts and other unpleasant things, all because they would not remember the simple rules their friends had taught them: such as, that a red-hot poker will burn you if you hold it too long; and that if you cut your finger very deeply with a knife, it usually bleeds; and she had never forgotten that, if you drink much from a bottle marked `poison,' it is almost certain to disagree with you, sooner or later.

However, this bottle was not marked `poison,' so Alice ventured to taste it, and finding it very nice, (it had, in fact, a sort of mixed flavour of cherry-tart, custard, pine-apple, roast turkey, toffee, and hot buttered toast,) she very soon finished it off.




Not what's in YOUR bottle, fd.

Interval to how it begiun the begin and began and so forth


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCYGyg1H56s

The South Koreans seem to have taken to democracy.

wombatwoody wrote on Sep 7^th, 2021 at 12:14pm:

Gore Vidal, a leading US columnist, put it very bluntly: “As it proved, the conquest of Afghanistan had nothing to do with Osama. He was simply a pretext for replacing the Taliban with a relatively stable government that would allow Union Oil of California to lay its pipeline for the profit of, among others, the Cheney-Bush junta.” https://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/EnemyWithin.html

They had to invade Afghanistan, they couldn't invade Egypt could they.

Dnarever wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2021 at 9:21pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Sep 7th, 2021 at 12:14pm: Gore Vidal, a leading US columnist, put it very bluntly: “As it proved, the conquest of Afghanistan had nothing to do with Osama. He was simply a pretext for replacing the Taliban with a relatively stable government that would allow Union Oil of California to lay its pipeline for the profit of, among others, the Cheney-Bush junta.” https://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/EnemyWithin.html They had to invade Afghanistan, they couldn't invade Egypt could they.

So...... where's the pipeline?

freediver wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2021 at 9:10pm:

The South Koreans seem to have taken to democracy.

Oh! Look over there, fd!!


Birdie!!!!

Birdie num num?

It's the label on the bottle that counts - "Drink entire - Against The Madness of Crowds"

Hoo-Rah!

Frank wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2021 at 10:12pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 23rd, 2021 at 9:10pm: The South Koreans seem to have taken to democracy. Oh! Look over there, fd!! Birdie!!!!

Would you like to have a go at making a rational, or at least cogent argument?

freediver wrote on Sep 24^th, 2021 at 6:08am:

Frank wrote on Sep 23rd, 2021 at 10:12pm: freediver wrote on Sep 23rd, 2021 at 9:10pm: The South Koreans seem to have taken to democracy. Oh! Look over there, fd!! Birdie!!!! Would you like to have a go at making a rational, or at least cogent argument?

South Korea turned democratic by its  own volition, not under American administration.

It was literally under US and UN administration.

USA didn't create the Taliban

Islam created the taliban.

Islam is the taliban.

Afganistan is islam unfettered, allowed to run its course, the end game of tge cult of death.

What you see happening in Afganistan today, is what islam wants for the whole world.
The cult of death
Tge Devil's own.

This is why i know islam should never be allowed near civilized human beings.

Barely a month in America, Afghan 'translators' feeling homesick.


Feds indict two Afghan refugees on child sex, spousal assault charges

Afghan refugee ESCAPES Canada and seeks refuge in...er...Afghanistan

KABUL, Afghanistan – In a recent unveiling by Crime Stoppers, Mansor Abdul, a 34-year-old Afghan national, has been identified as a key figure in a major auto theft ring in Canada, now seeking refuge in Kabul to escape Canadian law enforcement.

During a press conference, York Regional Police, in collaboration with the Equite Association and Crime Stoppers of York Region, disclosed their top five most wanted suspects for auto theft in 2023, with Abdul topping the list. He is accused of orchestrating a stolen vehicle trafficking operation, as uncovered in Project Majestic.

The investigation revealed that Abdul’s ring was involved in shipping stolen vehicles overseas, particularly to the United Arab Emirates and Lebanon. However, before the operation’s completion, which resulted in the recovery of 64 stolen vehicles valued at $3.5 million in the Republic of Malta, Abdul fled to Kabul. His return to Canada remains uncertain, as he continues to evade arrest.

Abdul’s departure underlines the growing trend of international criminals using Afghanistan as a sanctuary to escape justice. This move has raised concerns among law enforcement agencies about the challenges of cross-border crime and the difficulty in extraditing fugitives from countries with complex political landscapes.
https://www.khaama.com/afghan-national-flees-to-kabul-to-evade-canadian-auto-theft-charges-64652/