Interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFPcZh7_elY&ab_channel=NORTH02

CroMagnon man was black. Not that CroMagnon is a useful term or concept.

The issue of skin colour would be a non-starter in any culture if dark skin was not a cultural status marker, being: those who perform outside manual labour tasks are of low economic status rank, such that the darker the skin, the more likely the person will suffer societal discrimination.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 7:20am:

The issue of skin colour would be a non-starter in any culture if dark skin was not a cultural status marker, being: those who perform outside manual labour tasks are of low economic status rank, such that the darker the skin, the more likely the person will suffer societal discrimination.

If you’ve ever read an Indian newpaper classified section you’ll encounter dozens of adverts for skin whitening preparations. It’s a huge industry there. The personal columns also carry matchmaking adverts that stress ‘fair skin’ as a prime advantage in the race to acquire a groom.

Ayn Marx wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 11:05am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 7:20am: The issue of skin colour would be a non-starter in any culture if dark skin was not a cultural status marker, being: those who perform outside manual labour tasks are of low economic status rank, such that the darker the skin, the more likely the person will suffer societal discrimination. If you’ve ever read an Indian newpaper classified section you’ll encounter dozens of adverts for skin whitening preparations. It’s a huge industry there. The personal columns also carry matchmaking adverts that stress ‘fair skin’ as a prime advantage in the race to acquire a groom.

Yes. Certain castes mourn if their child is born with dark skin.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 7:20am:

The issue of skin colour would be a non-starter in any culture if dark skin was not a cultural status marker, being: those who perform outside manual labour tasks are of low economic status rank, such that the darker the skin, the more likely the person will suffer societal discrimination.

In  a remote Indonesian village many years ago we were invited to go to the home of the man who was well known to have  the most beautiful wife in the province, when we arrived we were introduced to a very overweight and to our eyes unattractive Albino woman .

rhino wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 11:40am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 7:20am: The issue of skin colour would be a non-starter in any culture if dark skin was not a cultural status marker, being: those who perform outside manual labour tasks are of low economic status rank, such that the darker the skin, the more likely the person will suffer societal discrimination. In  a remote Indonesian village many years ago we were invited to go to the home of the man who was well known to have  the most beautiful wife in the province, when we arrived we were introduced to a very overweight and to our eyes unattractive Albino woman .

Now that's a perfect example of status anxiety trumping immediate visual aesthetics.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 6:52pm:

Now that's a perfect example of status anxiety trumping immediate visual aesthetics.

no different to the idiots with the puffer fish lips or buttocks that you can sit your beer bottle on ... usually surgically enhanced

John Smith wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 7:02pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 6:52pm: Now that's a perfect example of status anxiety trumping immediate visual aesthetics. no different to the idiots with the puffer fish lips or buttocks that you can sit your beer bottle on ... usually surgically enhanced

Yeah,  but we're talking about skin colour being a thing... Light skin across Asia signals affluence and/or high caste.

Over 30 years ago, I met a few Indonesians who were actually on holiday in Australia. Even at my age then, I found it weird that I would meet some English speaking Asian (Indonesian) people who actually visited my town. I asked how they liked the town. One said something to the effect of, "The women here are beautiful. They are all... BLONDE".

There seemed to be a real fascination with blond/blonde-haired people to Asian people. Even I managed to have a few Asian females hit on me because they liked my blond hair. I have even caught a few Asian guys leering at my eldest daughter, because she has long blonde hair.

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 6:53am:

Interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFPcZh7_elY&ab_channel=NORTH02 CroMagnon man was black. Not that CroMagnon is a useful term or concept.

Oh look !!!!!!

Someone has a time machine !

And went back in time, and took a video !

That is conclusive evidence [of what they are claiming].


Someone alert the media,    .....someone has invented a time machine !


.


In a similar vein [i.e. 'reconstructing WOKE history'].....

There is a new drama series starting on SBS......


Quote:

New Gold Mountain: With Yoson An, Mabel Li, Christopher James Baker, Sam Wang. 1857, the charismatic headman of the Chinese mining camp struggles to maintain the fragile harmony between Chinese and European diggers when a murdered European woman is discovered to have links to the Chinese community.

In New Gold Mountain,   ......hmmmm.
.....i wonder who the 'baddies' were, back then, on dem, dar, goldfields ?

Come on, you must have an idea, who the 'baddies' will turn out to be, in this new drama series ???

Its 2021, come on !!!!!

Genetic analysis showed the skin color.

Jesus, had he existed, would have been swarthy, dark eyed and with black hair. Jesus wasn’t white!

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 7:32pm:

Over 30 years ago, I met a few Indonesians who were actually on holiday in Australia. Even at my age then, I found it weird that I would meet some English speaking Asian (Indonesian) people who actually visited my town. I asked how they liked the town. One said something to the effect of, "The women here are beautiful. They are all... BLONDE". There seemed to be a real fascination with blond/blonde-haired people to Asian people. Even I managed to have a few Asian females hit on me because they liked my blond hair. I have even caught a few Asian guys leering at my eldest daughter, because she has long blonde hair.

Yes... They're more like doing that because, in the Asian context, they think we are born high status...

Ironically, for us,  being tanned and bronzed is a signal we're affluent, windswept and interesting.

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 8:34pm:

Jesus, had he existed, would have been swarthy, dark eyed and with black hair. Jesus wasn’t white!

Oh, was he ?

Well, well, well.

That must be,   ...because Jesus was a moslem !!   [....this is what the Koran and what ISLAM claims, about Jesus]


.


NOT ABOUT JESUS.....

Archeologists have unearthed a tomb in Egypt, which it is believed [by some], belonged to Joseph [one of the sons of the biblical Jacob].

It is the tomb of a 'Semite', who was living in Egypt.

They know it is the tomb of a 'Semite', because of the type of weapons and artifacts unearthed in the tomb.

And, and,     .....there is a depiction of this person, the 'Semite',     ....and he has RED HAIR.

Imagine that, if it really is the tomb of Joseph [one of the sons of Jacob], he has RED HAIR !!!

An ancient Semite, in Egypt who has RED HAIR.

Hmmmmm.



WWW search.....
"Patterns of Evidence" joseph had "red hair"


Its not conclusive,     ......but Arabs and moslems and atheists, will absolutely hate and reject this narrative.

Principally, just because it has been proposed.


.


Patterns of Evidence: Exodus - Full Trailer
4 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2assFIyLInE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2assFIyLInE

Yadda wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 9:08pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 8:34pm: Jesus, had he existed, would have been swarthy, dark eyed and with black hair. Jesus wasn’t white! Oh, was he ?

If you were truly interested in theology, you'd know that the Christ of faith takes any form that the culture he's found in needs him to be.... Black, white, bearded, unbearded, Middle Eastern, Asian, Indian, Swedish masseuse, Italian green grocer... even an American proud owner of a Ferrari.

With a WWW search......



Quote:

British Egyptologist, David Rohl, believes he may have found the possible palace, tomb, and statue of Joseph. In an area of Goshen that was occupied by a large number of Semitic people, a palace, complete with a garden and tomb, has been discovered that has an interesting combination of both Egyptian and Semitic style. The tomb located in the garden is empty. The vault with its remains have been removed. However, the damage to the tomb is careful and methodical- not consistent with the damage common to other tombs inflicted by grave robbers. Since Moses removed Joseph’s remains from his tomb and brought them out when the Israelites fled Egypt, the appearance of this tomb is thought provoking to say the least. Inside the tomb complex is an unusual statue that has been heavily vandalized. The statue depicts a man who was clearly a high ranking Egyptian authority, since he has throw-stick on his chest, which was a symbol of Pharaoh’s authority. Oddly enough, however, the statue has red hair, styled in a Semitic fashion, and wears a coat with variegated colors. Interesting indeed… ......

https://truthsnitch.com/tag/josephs-tomb-found-in-egypt/

Yadda wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 9:18pm:

With a WWW search...... Quote: British Egyptologist, David Rohl, believes he may have found the possible palace, tomb, and statue of Joseph. In an area of Goshen that was occupied by a large number of Semitic people, a palace, complete with a garden and tomb, has been discovered that has an interesting combination of both Egyptian and Semitic style. The tomb located in the garden is empty. The vault with its remains have been removed. However, the damage to the tomb is careful and methodical- not consistent with the damage common to other tombs inflicted by grave robbers. Since Moses removed Joseph’s remains from his tomb and brought them out when the Israelites fled Egypt, the appearance of this tomb is thought provoking to say the least. Inside the tomb complex is an unusual statue that has been heavily vandalized. The statue depicts a man who was clearly a high ranking Egyptian authority, since he has throw-stick on his chest, which was a symbol of Pharaoh’s authority. Oddly enough, however, the statue has red hair, styled in a Semitic fashion, and wears a coat with variegated colors. Interesting indeed… ...... https://truthsnitch.com/tag/josephs-tomb-found-in-egypt/

As I said... Learn something of historical theology... The Christ of faith has appeared in every possible form he is required to be represented.

No one painted the portrait of the Joshua of history, so no one knows his true image, except what you can imagine from the average Middle Eastern.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 9:13pm:

Yadda wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 9:08pm: Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 8:34pm: Jesus, had he existed, would have been swarthy, dark eyed and with black hair. Jesus wasn’t white! Oh, was he ? If you were truly interested in theology, you'd know that the Christ of faith takes any form that the culture he's found in needs him to be.... Black, white, bearded, unbearded, Middle Eastern, Asian, Indian, Swedish masseuse, Italian green grocer... even an American proud owner of a Ferrari.

LOL

Come on north.         ;D           ......is that the best you have ?

Yadda wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 9:23pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 9:13pm: Yadda wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 9:08pm: Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 8:34pm: Jesus, had he existed, would have been swarthy, dark eyed and with black hair. Jesus wasn’t white! Oh, was he ? If you were truly interested in theology, you'd know that the Christ of faith takes any form that the culture he's found in needs him to be.... Black, white, bearded, unbearded, Middle Eastern, Asian, Indian, Swedish masseuse, Italian green grocer... even an American proud owner of a Ferrari. LOL Come on north.         ;D           ......is that the best you have ?

I can tell by that response, you are not a student of theology.

I am not talking {shudder} theology! I am talking what people in that part of the world looked like back then.

Not white skinned, blond haired, blue eyed.

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 9:30pm:

I am not talking {shudder} theology! I am talking what people in that part of the world looked like back then. Not white skinned, blond haired, blue eyed.

Impossible that he would have looked like a Swede among swarthy Middle Easterners and it not be noteworthy to the Romans who were compulsive documenters, like modern-day Germans.

The modern image of the Joshua of history grew from his brother James, who lived 30 years longer than his brother, was well documented by the Jews and the Romans and who did not cut his hair or beard... The skin colour was a later addition to de-Juduaify him in Europe.

Yadda wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 9:08pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 8:34pm: Jesus, had he existed, would have been swarthy, dark eyed and with black hair. Jesus wasn’t white! Oh, was he ? Well, well, well. That must be,   ...because Jesus was a moslem !!   [....this is what the Koran and what ISLAM claims, about Jesus] . NOT ABOUT JESUS..... Archeologists have unearthed a tomb in Egypt, which it is believed [by some], belonged to Joseph [one of the sons of the biblical Jacob]. It is the tomb of a 'Semite', who was living in Egypt. They know it is the tomb of a 'Semite', because of the type of weapons and artifacts unearthed in the tomb. And, and,     .....there is a depiction of this person, the 'Semite',     ....and he has RED HAIR. Imagine that, if it really is the tomb of Joseph [one of the sons of Jacob], he has RED HAIR !!! An ancient Semite, in Egypt who has RED HAIR. Hmmmmm. WWW search..... "Patterns of Evidence" joseph had "red hair" Its not conclusive,     ......but Arabs and moslems and atheists, will absolutely hate and reject this narrative. Principally, just because it has been proposed. . Patterns of Evidence: Exodus - Full Trailer 4 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2assFIyLInE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2assFIyLInE

Quite common for men in the middle east to dye their hair and beards red, I do not know why but just perhaps its a cultural practise which has been going on for a while. There you go, solved the puzzle!

Yadda MUST have “his” Jesus blond, white and blue eyed?

WHY?

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 10:36pm:

Yadda MUST have “his” Jesus blond, white and blue eyed? WHY?

Jesus is Jesus, that is all.

The truth of who Jesus is, is enough.

Jesus/Joshua is the redeemer of his people.

He is the redeemer, to all who choose to repent, and accept his gift of forgiveness.


.


Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.


Hosea 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.


John 14:8
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9  Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?


Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5  And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.



There is one spirit, who is God, the LORD.

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 6:53am:

Interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFPcZh7_elY&ab_channel=NORTH02 CroMagnon man was black. Not that CroMagnon is a useful term or concept.

More to the point, Juvenile Wank - when and why did dark ones decide not to develop (white skin)?

Did you watch the YouTube?

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 8:34pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 7:32pm: Over 30 years ago, I met a few Indonesians who were actually on holiday in Australia. Even at my age then, I found it weird that I would meet some English speaking Asian (Indonesian) people who actually visited my town. I asked how they liked the town. One said something to the effect of, "The women here are beautiful. They are all... BLONDE". There seemed to be a real fascination with blond/blonde-haired people to Asian people. Even I managed to have a few Asian females hit on me because they liked my blond hair. I have even caught a few Asian guys leering at my eldest daughter, because she has long blonde hair. Yes... They're more like doing that because, in the Asian context, they think we are born high status... Ironically, for us,  being tanned and bronzed is a signal we're affluent, windswept and interesting.

The fact is that Asian people rarely see blond(e) people in their neck of the region. They have to come to places with higher proportions of European descendants to see blond(e) hair as commonplace. There are plenty of videos on youtube where a visiting family with a blonde child in Asia go from being the tourists to the tourist attraction.

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 11:25pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 8:34pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 7:32pm: Over 30 years ago, I met a few Indonesians who were actually on holiday in Australia. Even at my age then, I found it weird that I would meet some English speaking Asian (Indonesian) people who actually visited my town. I asked how they liked the town. One said something to the effect of, "The women here are beautiful. They are all... BLONDE". There seemed to be a real fascination with blond/blonde-haired people to Asian people. Even I managed to have a few Asian females hit on me because they liked my blond hair. I have even caught a few Asian guys leering at my eldest daughter, because she has long blonde hair. Yes... They're more like doing that because, in the Asian context, they think we are born high status... Ironically, for us,  being tanned and bronzed is a signal we're affluent, windswept and interesting. The fact is that Asian people rarely see blond(e) people in their neck of the region. They have to come to places with higher proportions of European descendants to see blond(e) hair as commonplace. There are plenty of videos on youtube where a visiting family with a blonde child in Asia go from being the tourists to the tourist attraction.

Yes, I'd have to say that's true... And it doesn't necessarily need to be blond hair. White skin and a prominent nose in Asia is often cause enough to become the tourist attraction.

Yadda wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 11:00pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 10:36pm: Yadda MUST have “his” Jesus blond, white and blue eyed? WHY? Jesus is Jesus, that is all. The truth of who Jesus is, is enough. Jesus/Joshua is the redeemer of his people. He is the redeemer, to all who choose to repent, and accept his gift of forgiveness.

The Christ of faith is infinitely malleable... He can mean whatever the culture he is found in needs him to mean.

Yadda wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 11:00pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 10:36pm: Yadda MUST have “his” Jesus blond, white and blue eyed? WHY? Jesus is Jesus, that is all. The truth of who Jesus is, is enough. Jesus/Joshua is the redeemer of his people. He is the redeemer, to all who choose to repent, and accept his gift of forgiveness. . Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. Hosea 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me. John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9  Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 5  And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. There is one spirit, who is God, the LORD.

Jesus did not exist. Christianity started as yet another slave cult.

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 8:03am:

Jesus did not exist. Christianity started as yet another slave cult.

I think its more likely that he did exist than not.

The fact that the cult of Joshua and its subsequent Jerusalem Assembly (lead by James, Joshua's brother) was usurped and morphed into Christianity (initiated by Paul) is more interesting historically.

By the time of the death of James and soon after Paul's death, it would have been considered a safe bet that, if only one of them (the Judaic Jerusalem Assembly or Christianity) would survive, that the Jerusalem Assembly would have been the one.

Frank wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 11:09pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 6:53am: Interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFPcZh7_elY&ab_channel=NORTH02 CroMagnon man was black. Not that CroMagnon is a useful term or concept. More to the point, Juvenile Wank - when and why did dark ones decide not to develop (white skin)? Did you watch the YouTube?

The video talked of “evolutionary pressures” for white skin in Europe—so bodies could make Vitamin D. In Africa the hot sun means dark skins have the advantage—no skin cancers caused by UV.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 8:11am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12th, 2021 at 8:03am: Jesus did not exist. Christianity started as yet another slave cult. I think its more likely that he did exist than not. The fact that the cult of Joshua and its subsequent Jerusalem Assembly (lead by James, Joshua's brother) was usurped and morphed into Christianity (initiated by Paul) is more interesting historically. By the time of the death of James and soon after Paul's death, it would have been considered a safe bet that, if only one of them (the Judaic Jerusalem Assembly or Christianity) would survive, that the Jerusalem Assembly would have been the one.

I doubt it. That “Roman census” that caused Joseph and Mary to travel to Bethlehem—never happened.

If “Jesus” had existed he would have married and had kids. Did he?

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 8:41am:

Frank wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 11:09pm: Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 6:53am: Interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFPcZh7_elY&ab_channel=NORTH02 CroMagnon man was black. Not that CroMagnon is a useful term or concept. More to the point, Juvenile Wank - when and why did dark ones decide not to develop (white skin)? Did you watch the YouTube? The video talked of “evolutionary pressures” for white skin in Europe—so bodies could make Vitamin D. In Africa the hot sun means dark skins have the advantage—no skin cancers caused by UV.

So what more could be answered to your thread title?

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 8:43am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 12th, 2021 at 8:11am: Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12th, 2021 at 8:03am: Jesus did not exist. Christianity started as yet another slave cult. I think its more likely that he did exist than not. The fact that the cult of Joshua and its subsequent Jerusalem Assembly (lead by James, Joshua's brother) was usurped and morphed into Christianity (initiated by Paul) is more interesting historically. By the time of the death of James and soon after Paul's death, it would have been considered a safe bet that, if only one of them (the Judaic Jerusalem Assembly or Christianity) would survive, that the Jerusalem Assembly would have been the one. I doubt it. That “Roman census” that caused Joseph and Mary to travel to Bethlehem—never happened. If “Jesus” had existed he would have married and had kids. Did he?

True. The census did happen, but not in the timeframe given. It was a birth story written long after the events (around 90 AD) by non-Jews to place the birth of Joshua at the birthplace of David.

There is almost nothing known of Joshua's life. The Gospel of Mark (the oldest known) made no mention of any nativity story.

The only facts that nearly all theologists agree on is that Joshua was a Jew, that he preached about the coming of a kingdom of god and that he was executed for sedition by the occupying Romans (one of literally thousands executed).

Much more is known of his brother James, who literally lived twice as long as Joshua, and who continued Joshua's movement as the leader of the Jerusalem Assembly.

So James could have just made the whole thing up.

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 8:03am:

Jesus did not exist. Christianity started as yet another slave cult.

JM,

I'm happy for you to believe whatever you want to believe.

And if you want to believe that Jesus didn't exist, that is fine with me.

Practically no evidence he existed.

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 9:15am:

So James could have just made the whole thing up.

No. It's clear that it was known by the members of the Jerusalem Assembly that Joshua existed and that James was his brother and unquestioned leader of the Assembly (even Paul acknowledges that).

The thing is, despite popular belief, Joshua was virtually unknown to the people of Palestine outside his very small circle of followers... Ridiculously small, relative to others who claimed to be the Messiah around the same time, all of whom were executed by Rome for making the claim.

The fact that Christianity survived at all is the biggest mystery and one of the greatest comeback stories in history (even if the Christian story told today bears almost no resemblance to the original story as told by the Jerusalem Assembly).

You have obviously done a LOT of reading of early Christianity?

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 9:24am:

You have obviously done a LOT of reading of early Christianity?

Yes, I have read a fair bit.

The most likely story of Joshua's life is nowhere near as grand as the second century Christians developed...

And anything that is generally agreed Joshua preached is much closer to Islam than the Christianity we know of today.

He did not go against Jewish Laws tho, did he? Maybe bit more radical?

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 10:10am:

He did not go against Jewish Laws tho, did he? Maybe bit more radical?

No, Joshua did not break Jewish law. And neither did James, his brother, who was known as James the Just by all who knew and respected him, including the temple priests.

James was so devout a Jew that many commented that his knees looked like those of a camel's due to the number of his prostrations at the temple.

Joshua's preaching was radical, however and certainly challenged temple authorities. It appears he preached, not equality for all Jews (and he only preached to Jews, not to Gentiles), but an upending of the social order such that the poor would take power by overthrowing the rich and powerful.

The only reason he survived for the three years of his ministry (until he made his suicidal mission to overthrow the temple order), was that he confined his ministry to Galilee, which was an impoverished backwater in Palestine at the time and of no concern to the power elite who ran Judea.

In fact virtually no one had heard of Joshua in Jerusalem before his 'storming' of the temple.

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 9:17am:

Practically no evidence he existed.

Nevertheless, Christianity exists.

Did Moses exist? Judaism does.
Mohammed? Buddha? Rainbow Serpent?

The truth of such matters of the "soul" are not the same kind as the truth of, say, mathematics (even though numbers themselves do not exist either).

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 10:28am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12th, 2021 at 9:17am: Practically no evidence he existed. Nevertheless, Christianity exists. Did Moses exist? Judaism does. Mohammed? Buddha? Rainbow Serpent? The truth of such matters of the "soul" are not the same kind as the truth of, say, mathematics (even though numbers themselves do not exist either).

It's certain the Mohammed existed. It's as good as certain that Joshua existed. It's highly likely that Siddharta existed. It's unlikely that Moses existed.

However, religion is what evolving traditions and/or followers make of spiritual leaders' preachings.

Even Mohammed insisted he was not creating a new religion and that his 'revelations' by the angel Gabriel were not new, but reminders of the words of the prophets that had gone before as the followers of the gods El and Yahweh (by then combined into one as Yahweh).

Siddhartha was likely reforming Hinduism not creating Buddhism.

Joshua certainly did not create Christianity. That was clearly done by Paul.

Christianity exists, so what? All the cults in the Roman Empire, one survived.

Wish all religion would disappear. No matter how fine the religion a church and a hierarchy develop and these have interests besides the religion.

Most of the Old Testament is a fable and so is all of christianity.

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 10:39am:

All the cults in the Roman Empire, one survived.

That's very true. All of Europe's religions prior to Christianity are extinct.

That Christianity has survived for nearly 2000 years is remarkable as is the survival of Buddhism given their very humble beginnings.

Islam was quickly adopted as an Arabian unifying force (an antidote to fractious Arab tribalistic sensibilities) even during Mohammed's lifetime, so it clearly found its feet immediately.

Judaism was already ancient 2000 years ago so perhaps it's the most remarkable of all.

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 10:39am:

Christianity exists, so what? All the cults in the Roman Empire, one survived. Wish all religion would disappear. No matter how fine the religion a church and a hierarchy develop and these have interests besides the religion. Most of the Old Testament is a fable and so is all of christianity.

That is stupid and myopic/blind. Fables, myths, parables, literature, art, music, philosophy, psychology - none of them are materially, objectively true yet all are essential, indispensable and exist universally across all societies. To wish them away is to wish away our very humanity, throwing out the baby, the bathwater, the tub, destroying the plumbing and demolishing the house.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 10:46am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12th, 2021 at 10:39am: All the cults in the Roman Empire, one survived. That's very true. All of Europe's religions prior to Christianity are extinct.

However their traces can be found in Christianity.

Easter was the Roman (and pagan European) celebration of rebirth (hence the eggs), grafted onto the Jewish Passover to create the Christian Easter.

Christmas (December 25th) was the birthday of the Roman god Sol Invictus (The Invincible Sun).

The Sabbath was moved from Friday night / Saturday to Sunday - the day of Sol Invictus.

And the pine Christmass trees too.

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 11:36am:

And the pine Christmass trees too.

That's a German tradition made popular in the Anglophonic world by Prince Albert.

Ah, knew it was German, didn’t know re Albert.

In Holland the (real) trees would be collected by youth, piled up in a square or intersection and a bonfire started.

In some of the rougher districts when the fire had burned out you could find the small stolen car they piled the trees around and on.