The Democratic West has to believe in its ideals and self again or write a suicide note before far more brutal cultures.


That is the choice.

Name the "brutal cultures"

Han China sending Muslims to concentration camps.

The Gulf states treating any non-Arab like a serf of a slave.

Africa fighting unending ethnic, and religious wars.

Russia invades Ukraine all in service to a Putin historical fantasy.

Just a few.

We live in the best of all worlds in the democratic world.

It is why the people of the world flee to us and not away from us.


Only the half-wit and historically illiterate ignore that stark human fact.

I do not know where you live, but if you live in the Democratic West, as flawed is that is, as the entire human condition is, you are blessed.

The Democratic West is the only political and social culture that has even attempted that diabolical trick before human history.


To set us free from it.

Bias_2012 wrote on May 7^th, 2022 at 3:59pm:

Name the "brutal cultures"

Islam is pretty brutal, and hostile to democracy.

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2022 at 4:26pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on May 7th, 2022 at 3:59pm: Name the "brutal cultures" Islam is pretty brutal, and hostile to democracy.

Trump Republicans, you say?

greggerypeccary wrote on May 7^th, 2022 at 5:09pm:

freediver wrote on May 7th, 2022 at 4:26pm: Bias_2012 wrote on May 7th, 2022 at 3:59pm: Name the "brutal cultures" Islam is pretty brutal, and hostile to democracy. Trump Republicans, you say?

How many gays have they thrown off buildings?

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2022 at 5:11pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on May 7th, 2022 at 5:09pm: freediver wrote on May 7th, 2022 at 4:26pm: Bias_2012 wrote on May 7th, 2022 at 3:59pm: Name the "brutal cultures" Islam is pretty brutal, and hostile to democracy. Trump Republicans, you say? How many gays have they thrown off buildings?

Do they throw them off Trump buildings?

greggerypeccary wrote on May 7^th, 2022 at 5:12pm:

freediver wrote on May 7th, 2022 at 5:11pm: greggerypeccary wrote on May 7th, 2022 at 5:09pm: freediver wrote on May 7th, 2022 at 4:26pm: Bias_2012 wrote on May 7th, 2022 at 3:59pm: Name the "brutal cultures" Islam is pretty brutal, and hostile to democracy. Trump Republicans, you say? How many gays have they thrown off buildings? Do they throw them off Trump buildings?

Or just fly planes into them?

You are very skilled at discarding perspective Greg.

Jake Winker Frogen wrote on May 7^th, 2022 at 4:04pm:

We live in the best of all worlds in the democratic world. It is why the people of the world flee to us and not away from us. Only the half-wit and historically illiterate ignore that stark human fact.

' ..............  the people of the world flee to us and not away from us.  ............'

Russia, China, Nth Korea and UAE have no problems with illegal immigrants.

If you have drinkable water from a tap, are literate and live in a democracy you are pretty fortunate.

Jake Winker Frogen wrote on May 7^th, 2022 at 4:03pm:

Han China sending Muslims to concentration camps.

To educate the fundamentalist terrorist separatists among them, unlike the US who prefers to bomb them into submission.   


Quote:

The Gulf states treating any non-Arab like a serf of a slave.

Yes, fundamentalist Islamists and their nation-states are a problem. 


Quote:

Africa fighting unending ethnic, and religious wars.

After being colonized and exploited by the West for centuries.


Quote:

Russia invades Ukraine all in service to a Putin historical fantasy.

 

And yet the collapse of the USSR left some Russians  in difficult - conflicted - territorial situations. Should they all simply have moved back to Russia?


Quote:

Just a few.

You forgot the evils of US global hegemony, characterized by continuous warfare since WW2.   

*falls about laughing* 

No - the Despotic Oligarchic Expansionist Non-Democrats are falling into our trap ... cunning, no?  Like every fool in history they figure that having all control over everything is better than trading and just getting along... never worked yet and never will.

Notice the refugees from Ukraine are happy to come here - just like everyone else.... ever wonder why that is?  All your stable mates can't be party members or plants trying to become a Fifth Column here and buy it all up... most of them want to get away from your style of government.....

The last little slant-eye or Slav who tried that came a cropper, so don't go dictating terms to us until you're marching down George Street!!

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2022 at 4:26pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on May 7th, 2022 at 3:59pm: Name the "brutal cultures" Islam is pretty brutal, and hostile to democracy.

We all know it, but we turn a blind eye ... Islam knows only one thing - Islam, and Sharia law

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 7^th, 2022 at 6:26pm:

Like every fool in history they figure that having all control over everything is better than trading and just getting along... never worked yet and never will.

"Just trading and getting along...." like the US overthrow of Iran's first democratic government, in 1953.

"Mosaddegh was democratically elected into the office of the Prime Minister in 1951. He served until 1953, when his government was overthrown in the 1953 Iranian coup d'état orchestrated by the intelligence agencies of the United Kingdom (MI6) and the United States (CIA), led by Kermit Roosevelt Jr."

Mosaddegh made the 'mistake' of thinking Iranians should benefit from the exploitation of Iranian oil reserves, who'd have thunk it....

Meantime Shell has extracted so much oil from the Nigerian delta the entire population should be rich....

"just trading and getting along", indeed.


Quote:

Notice the refugees from Ukraine are happy to come here - just like everyone else.... ever wonder why that is?

Partly because US global hegemony including episodes like that above have ruined the economies of many countries. 

https://ellenbrown.com/2022/05/05/a-monetary-reset-where-the-rich-dont-own-everything/


Quote:

All your stable mates can't be party members or plants trying to become a Fifth Column here and buy it all up... most of them want to get away from your style of government.....

There are many styles of government, and as Ellen Brown notes, yours is headed for oblivion. 


Quote:

The last little slant-eye or Slav who tried that came a cropper, so don't go dictating terms to us until you're marching down George Street!!

er...'the enemy within',  when the debt crisis comes to a head, will bring about your own demise, no help from  slant-eyes or Slavs required. 

Jake Winker Frogen wrote on May 7^th, 2022 at 3:38pm:

The Democratic West has to believe in its ideals and self again or write a suicide note before far more brutal cultures. That is the choice.

Ex Deputy Prime Minster John Anderson speaks regularly about this on his YouTube channel
And although I hold a higher level of respect for him than I have for many of his conservative peers, I'd have a much greater level of respect if he would think a bit more holistically and in doing so, also tackle the topics of campaign financing, media ownership and political integrity.

Greater morality and fairness in these areas could help lift confidence in our leadership and strengthen social cohesion. And we will need as much credibility and social cohesion as possible, if we are to effectively combat the nefarious foreign actors and their troll farms from weaponizing the useful idiots, drongos, disaffected and misinformed among us.

The general incitement, fake media and destabilization that is taking place in the spheres of social media are of no small concern and difficult to counter without restricting our own freedoms. We should do all we can to resurrect integrity and to restore fairness and confidence in the fundamentals of our democratic system(s). We need to seriously decrease the undue and often corrupt influence the mighty $'s holds over our systems of government and our government officials.    

thegreatdivide wrote on May 7^th, 2022 at 11:40pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 7th, 2022 at 6:26pm: Like every fool in history they figure that having all control over everything is better than trading and just getting along... never worked yet and never will. "Just trading and getting along...." like the US overthrow of Iran's first democratic government, in 1953. "Mosaddegh was democratically elected into the office of the Prime Minister in 1951. He served until 1953, when his government was overthrown in the 1953 Iranian coup d'état orchestrated by the intelligence agencies of the United Kingdom (MI6) and the United States (CIA), led by Kermit Roosevelt Jr." Mosaddegh made the 'mistake' of thinking Iranians should benefit from the exploitation of Iranian oil reserves, who'd have thunk it.... Meantime Shell has extracted so much oil from the Nigerian delta the entire population should be rich.... "just trading and getting along", indeed. Quote: Notice the refugees from Ukraine are happy to come here - just like everyone else.... ever wonder why that is?  Partly because US global hegemony including episodes like that above have ruined the economies of many countries.  https://ellenbrown.com/2022/05/05/a-monetary-reset-where-the-rich-dont-own-everything/ [quote]All your stable mates can't be party members or plants trying to become a Fifth Column here and buy it all up... most of them want to get away from your style of government.....

There are many styles of government, and as Ellen Brown notes, yours is headed for oblivion. 


Quote:

The last little slant-eye or Slav who tried that came a cropper, so don't go dictating terms to us until you're marching down George Street!!

er...'the enemy within',  when the debt crisis comes to a head, will bring about your own demise, no help from  slant-eyes or Slavs required. 


[/quote]

We're talking about here and now, sonny - so any intervention in a foreign nation 70 years ago is no justification for intervention by new players today?

You are so funny .....

When the 'debt crisis' comes into play - trade with you will collapse as well and you will be far worse off.

You understand fair trade and negotiation as opposed to using money as a tool for world domination?

I see no good coming from the modern trend to dictators.

Clearly you miss my repeated posts about 'regions' and the lack of any real need or urgency to trade with them on their terms - Nigeria (black person'ere) is quite at liberty to make its own deals for the benefit of its people... same as Australia with its resources, Kazakhstan with its and so forth - tell me now why they don't?

Here's a clue - because they are all governed by inept and self-serving people who cannot see further than the next batch of dollars coming their way, and who are willing to sell out their country and countrymen in return for dollars to them.

How is China any different?  How is Russia?  How is Kazakhstan?  How is Nigeria?

The STYLE of government here, and there - robber baronism clad in the fine raiments of democracy - needs to be changed - but not its FORM, thank you.

Do you know the difference?

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 1:40am:

We're talking about here and now, sonny - so any intervention in a foreign nation 70 years ago is no justification for intervention by new players today? You are so funny .....

You say you believe in "trading and just getting along", and yet you reject the two schemes vital for that to occur; after WW2, the first envisioned by 'Doc' Evatt, and the 2nd by JM Keynes.

1. Implementing the institutional machinery for outlawing war as a means of dispute settlement between nations (inc. UNSC without veto as envisioned by Evatt).

2. Implementing the institutional machinery to engender fair trade and prosperous development in all nations (via a 'clearing union' and 'Bankor' envisioned by Keynes).

Both schemes were rejected by the great powers (in no1), and a triumphant US (in no.2) , basically proving that  instinct (via the reptilian brain) triumphed over rationality...again, despite the catastrophic lesson  of WW2.   


Quote:

When the 'debt crisis' comes into play - trade with you will collapse as well and you will be far worse off.

Me? Are you assuming I am Chinese. I'm neither CCP nor living in China; my task is to expose the West's delusional  "freedom"/'individual rights' ideology, and its disastrous consequences on the world's collective well-being.


Quote:

You understand fair trade and negotiation as opposed to using money as a tool for world domination?

Yes, as outlined above.


Quote:

I see no good coming from the modern trend to dictators.

That trend is because of  soaring inequality and collapsing debt-ridden economies around the globe.


Quote:

Clearly you miss my repeated posts about 'regions' and the lack of any real need or urgency to trade with them on their terms - Nigeria (black person'ere) is quite at liberty to make its own deals for the benefit of its people... same as Australia with its resources, Kazakhstan with its and so forth - tell me now why they don't?

Nations are not at liberty at all, when they are burdened by debt and unfair trade entrenched by the monetary orthodoxy of the IMF (Instant Misery Fund), and a WTO that has no provisions to foster prosperous development in all nations.   


Quote:

Here's a clue - because they are all governed by inept and self-serving people who cannot see further than the next batch of dollars coming their way, and who are willing to sell out their country and countrymen in return for dollars to them.

Governed by inept and self-serving people, maybe: but a systems change is needed.


Quote:

How is China any different?  How is Russia?  How is Kazakhstan?  How is Nigeria?

They all have different resources, and  global oversight mechanisms are needed, as outlined above. 


Quote:

The STYLE of government here, and there - robber baronism clad in the fine raiments of democracy - needs to be changed - but not its FORM, thank you.

Government is tricky, but failure is not an option, if human civilization is to progress and succeed.

Personally I want to see a friendly competition between adversarial 2-party democracies and China's consensus one-party meritocracy.


Quote:

Do you know the difference?

Yes.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 7^th, 2022 at 11:40pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 7th, 2022 at 6:26pm: Like every fool in history they figure that having all control over everything is better than trading and just getting along... never worked yet and never will. "Just trading and getting along...." like the US overthrow of Iran's first democratic government, in 1953. "Mosaddegh was democratically elected into the office of the Prime Minister in 1951. He served until 1953, when his government was overthrown in the 1953 Iranian coup d'état orchestrated by the intelligence agencies of the United Kingdom (MI6) and the United States (CIA), led by Kermit Roosevelt Jr." Mosaddegh made the 'mistake' of thinking Iranians should benefit from the exploitation of Iranian oil reserves, who'd have thunk it.... Meantime Shell has extracted so much oil from the Nigerian delta the entire population should be rich.... "just trading and getting along", indeed.

You have drunk so much of your own coolaid that it did not even occur to you that Mosaddegh's actions were the antithesis of "just trading and getting along".

freediver wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 12:43pm:

You have drunk so much of your own coolaid that it did not even occur to you that Mosaddegh's actions were the antithesis of "just trading and getting along".

What, you mean British and US monopoly of the oil industry  was "trading and getting along"?....

Britain and the US are countries, not companies. I understand a CCP stooge not noticing the difference.

Also, two implies duopoly, not monopoly.

Don't drink the coolaid.

freediver wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 12:52pm:

Britain and the US are countries, not companies.

 

British and US oil companies greedily claimed the profits of exploitation of the world's oil reserves for themselves. That's the background to the history of war in the ME, since WW2.


Quote:

I understand a CCP stooge not noticing the difference.

To repeat: I'm not a "CCP stooge"; my task is to expose the delusional nature of the disastrous "freedom"/ "individual rights" ideology which has such catastrophic consequences for collective well-being around the world.
Based on the triumph of the instinctive reptilian brain over rationality - the history of the human race.


Quote:

Also, two implies duopoly, not monopoly.

 

Western technology formed a greedy monopoly in the ME.


Quote:

Don't drink the coolaid.

"Know Thyself"......

Quote:

To repeat: I'm not a "CCP stooge"

Yes you are. How do you go from British companies plus American companies to "monopoly"?

Do you know what the word means?


Quote:

Western technology formed a greedy monopoly in the ME.

Are you trying to blame the west for OPEC? Because they use western technology for what? Extracting oil?

freediver wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 1:37pm:

Quote: To repeat: I'm not a "CCP stooge" Yes you are. How do you go from British companies plus American companies to "monopoly"?

Western monopolization of  the oil industry.

Monopolization (meaning): "complete control of something, which prevents other people or companies having any share or influence". eg locking Iranians out of profits from developing their own resources ( in the CIA and MI6 engineered coup in 1973).


Quote:

Do you know what the word means?

Yes.


Quote:

Are you trying to blame the west for OPEC? Because they use western technology for what? Extracting oil?

Some OPEC countries are Western allies, some (eg Iran) are not; and Nigeria is being raped by Shell, which ever way you look at it. 

"24 Oct 2018 — ... by IndustriALL Global Union has revealed the shocking exploitation of contract workers at Shell oil and gas operations in Nigeria".

thegreatdivide wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 1:12pm:

To repeat: I'm not a "CCP stooge";

And yet your tactics here are exactly those the CCP instruct their prostitutes to use.

Coincidence?

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 2:09pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 1:12pm: To repeat: I'm not a "CCP stooge"; And yet your tactics here are exactly those the CCP instruct their prostitutes to use. Coincidence?

Yes. Regardless of "CCP tactics", my task is to expose the delusional nature of the disastrous Western "freedom"/"individual rights" ideology which has such catastrophic consequences for collective well-being around the world.

Based on the triumph of the instinctive reptilian brain over rationality - the history of the human race.

Quote:

Western monopolization of  the oil industry.

The 'west' is not a cohesive entity that can control anything. It is so powerful because it is in intense competition with itself.


Quote:

Some OPEC countries are Western allies, some (eg Iran) are not; and Nigeria is being raped by Shell, which ever way you look at it.

I notice you did not answer the question. Again. Just the sort of diversion you would expect from a CCP stooge.

Are you trying to blame the west for OPEC? Because they use western technology for what? Extracting oil?


Quote:

Yes. Regardless of "CCP tactics", my task is to expose the delusional nature of the disastrous Western "freedom"/"individual rights" ideology which has such catastrophic consequences for collective well-being around the world.

The only people motivated to do so are Muslims, because Islam is ideologically opposed to individualism, and stooges for various dictatorships. Your dishonesty regarding CCP lies and incompetence puts you squarely in their camp. According you you, 50 million dead Chinese is a "little mistake" that the Chinese people do not need to learn anything from. Yet you lecture us on disastrous consequences.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 2:33pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 2:09pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 1:12pm: To repeat: I'm not a "CCP stooge"; And yet your tactics here are exactly those the CCP instruct their prostitutes to use. Coincidence? Yes. Regardless of "CCP tactics",

Yet eerily in sync with the CCP's propaganda and misinformation arm of its security bureau with training their prostitutes.

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 2:45pm:

Yet eerily in sync with the CCP's propaganda and misinformation arm of its security bureau with training their prostitutes.

Only to a deluded "individual rights" ideologue whose perception of reality is grossly distorted by that blind instinct-based ideology.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 3:15pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 2:45pm: Yet eerily in sync with the CCP's propaganda and misinformation arm of its security bureau with training their prostitutes. Only to a deluded "individual rights" ideologue whose perception of reality is grossly distorted by that blind instinct-based ideology.

You're eating too many dried grasshopper legs.

What is it about CCP prostitutes? The more you read their posts, the more they sound like scientologists.

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 3:23pm:

Quote: What is it about CCP prostitutes? I'm not one. My task is to expose your disastrous blind "freedom" ideology to the world, before it destroys us all.    [quote]The more you read their posts, the more they sound like scientologists.

Comprehension is distorted by the ideology of the reader. My difficulty is in explaining reality to an ideologue who is blinded by instinct.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 3:34pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 3:23pm: Quote: What is it about CCP prostitutes? I'm not one. My task is to expose your disastrous blind "freedom" ideology to the world, before it destroys us all.    [quote]The more you read their posts, the more they sound like scientologists. Comprehension is distorted by the ideology of the reader. My difficulty is in explaining reality to an ideologue who is blinded by instinct.

Who assigned this 'task' to you, Mr Phelps?

You need an editor to help you comprehend the inefficacy of repetitive tropes.

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 3:40pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 3:34pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 3:23pm: Quote: What is it about CCP prostitutes? I'm not one. My task is to expose your disastrous blind "freedom" ideology to the world, before it destroys us all.    [quote]The more you read their posts, the more they sound like scientologists. Comprehension is distorted by the ideology of the reader. My difficulty is in explaining reality to an ideologue who is blinded by instinct. Who assigned this 'task' to you, Mr Phelps? My conscious cortex brain, to overcome the disastrous effects of the reptilian brain in all of us.  [quote]You need an editor to help you comprehend the inefficacy of repetitive tropes.

Maybe, but much more urgently, you need to gain some insight into the basis  of your own ideology.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 3:15pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 2:45pm: Yet eerily in sync with the CCP's propaganda and misinformation arm of its security bureau with training their prostitutes. Only to a deluded "individual rights" ideologue whose perception of reality is grossly distorted by that blind instinct-based ideology.

To everyone who has not been lied to their whole life by the CCP.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 3:46pm:

My conscious cortex brain, to overcome the disastrous effects of the reptilian brain in all of us.

Your repetitive CCP tropes are too similar to scientology's to be coincidental.

Look up some words from the scientology lexicon.

Wouldn't be hard work for you to weave them into CCP-speak.

I think that's the show right there. Both the CCP and scientology were founded by paranoid psychopaths whose obsession with power established a mechanism by which their respective systems could be exploited by future psychopaths. The crucial difference being that the CCP infected an entire nation.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 3:34pm:

Comprehension is distorted by the ideology of the reader. My difficulty is in explaining reality to an ideologue who is blinded by instinct.

Translate: you are an idiot and you are not afraid to parade it.

Anyone not buying your shite has a problem with "distorted comprehension ideology difficulty reader explanation sovereign individuality common prosperity individual bbbzzz... xxxrrrchhchhzz....xzxddszxxxzzz....  k - chhhinggg...."


It's sooo obvious!!!!

Funny thing is - in Arab ME nations that don't shoot themselves in the foot all the time with their petty rivalries and infighting - the locals retain a significant proportion of the profits from petroleum, and sell petrol etc to their own people at fantastic prices compared to what we pay.

If you wish to argue that the social arrangements in those nations mean that the top dogs get most and trickle-down is minimal etc - address that - but clearly there is no US/UK monopoly in the ME these days.... fair trade and negotiation works!!

Petrol $0.88 Au in Saudi - $1.78 here ........ courtesy of the global economy... and it's far worse for diesel fuel.... $0.23 there - nearly $2.00 here.

You got it yet?

I blame the global economy - YOU?  Oh - and the feminists for removing the balls from the west.....

No nation, culture or civilisation ruled by women has ever survived the first onslaught of the next patriarchal society to come along and challenge it... nor will the west if it continues its downward spiral into control by the pussy ......  BTW QE lasted one reign... QE II the same.... I'll miss Liz when she goes - the last of a good or better lot.

Fancy meeting you here
Under this current sky
Countless times we'd like to
Know the total reason why
Yearly cost of fuel just goes
Openly to the sky
Up!

Jake Winker Frogen wrote on May 7^th, 2022 at 3:38pm:

The Democratic West has to believe in its ideals and self again or write a suicide note before far more brutal cultures. That is the choice.

The democratic world is your great illusion.

Jake Winker Frogen wrote on May 7^th, 2022 at 4:03pm:

Han China sending Muslims to concentration camps. The Gulf states treating any non-Arab like a serf of a slave. Africa fighting unending ethnic, and religious wars. Russia invades Ukraine all in service to a Putin historical fantasy. Just a few.

Blah, blah, blah.
Stop empty parroting and create something meaningful.
:)

athos wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 11:29am:

Jake Winker Frogen wrote on May 7th, 2022 at 3:38pm: The Democratic West has to believe in its ideals and self again or write a suicide note before far more brutal cultures. That is the choice. The democratic world is your great illusion.

Another 50c to the sock.

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 8:01pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 3:46pm: My conscious cortex brain, to overcome the disastrous effects of the reptilian brain in all of us.  Your repetitive CCP tropes are too similar to scientology's to be coincidental.

Interesting. So Hubbard was onto something?


Quote:

Look up some words from the scientology lexicon.

iirc, something to do with becoming "clear".....


"Achieving the state of Clear means a person has overcome the reactive mind and is in complete control of their analytical mind. According to Hubbard: "A Clear is a being who no longer has his own reactive mind, and therefore suffers none of the ill effects the reactive mind can cause".

Well, I hadn't realized it, but Ron was apparently also aware of the effects of the reptilian brain.


Quote:

Wouldn't be hard work for you to weave them into CCP-speak.

I don't have to. The existence of the CCP merely shows Marxist collectivism has a basis in reality.


Quote:

I think that's the show right there. Both the CCP and scientology were founded by paranoid psychopaths whose obsession with power established a mechanism by which their respective systems could be exploited by future psychopaths. The crucial difference being that the CCP infected an entire nation.

Addressed and refuted above.

Frank wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 9:00pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 3:34pm: Comprehension is distorted by the ideology of the reader. My difficulty is in explaining reality to an ideologue who is blinded by instinct. Translate: you are an idiot and you are not afraid to parade it.

Er...see, I told you; warning, I have a mirror for you....


Quote:

Anyone not buying your shite has a problem with "distorted comprehension ideology difficulty reader explanation sovereign individuality common prosperity individual bbbzzz... xxxrrrchhchhzz....xzxddszxxxzzz....  k - chhhinggg...."

No, the problem clearly stated , once again, is:

Comprehension is distorted by the ideology of the reader. My difficulty is in explaining reality to an ideologue who is blinded by instinct.



Quote:

It's sooo obvious!!!!

Except for the person so blinded by instinct.

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 3:23pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 3:15pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 2:45pm: Yet eerily in sync with the CCP's propaganda and misinformation arm of its security bureau with training their prostitutes. Only to a deluded "individual rights" ideologue whose perception of reality is grossly distorted by that blind instinct-based ideology. You're eating too many dried grasshopper legs. What is it about CCP prostitutes? The more you read their posts, the more they sound like scientologists.

What about ASIO (MI6) bot prostitutes who work for the dole?
;D

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 12:19pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 8:01pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 3:46pm: My conscious cortex brain, to overcome the disastrous effects of the reptilian brain in all of us.  Your repetitive CCP tropes are too similar to scientology's to be coincidental. Interesting. So Hubbard was onto something? Quote: Look up some words from the scientology lexicon. iirc, something to do with becoming "clear"..... "Achieving the state of Clear means a person has overcome the reactive mind and is in complete control of their analytical mind. According to Hubbard: "A Clear is a being who no longer has his own reactive mind, and therefore suffers none of the ill effects the reactive mind can cause". Well, I hadn't realized it, but Ron was apparently also aware of the effects of the reptilian brain. [quote]Wouldn't be hard work for you to weave them into CCP-speak.

I don't have to. The existence of the CCP merely shows Marxist collectivism has a basis in reality.


Quote:

I think that's the show right there. Both the CCP and scientology were founded by paranoid psychopaths whose obsession with power established a mechanism by which their respective systems could be exploited by future psychopaths. The crucial difference being that the CCP infected an entire nation.

Addressed and refuted above.
[/quote]
Try 'suppressive person' and 'squirrel'.

Some rules the CCP instructs to its prostitutes to follow:

1. 'Limit your knowledge of the world. Close you five senses. Limiting the perception and awareness of the five senses makes you deaf and blind to external things [beyond CCP doctrine]'.
2. 'Pleasure is like wine; it makes you drunk every day. Destroy your enemies' moral values and beliefs'.
3. 'Threaten the people like a knife'.
4. 'Deflect away from the argument. [whataboutism]'.
5. 'Deny you are paid or instructed by the CCP. Promote yourself as a free thinker'.

As you and the bot, (or the other CCP prostitute here), Athos follow.

The CCP's modus operandi is identical to scientology.

athos wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 12:26pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 3:23pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 3:15pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 2:45pm: Yet eerily in sync with the CCP's propaganda and misinformation arm of its security bureau with training their prostitutes. Only to a deluded "individual rights" ideologue whose perception of reality is grossly distorted by that blind instinct-based ideology. You're eating too many dried grasshopper legs. What is it about CCP prostitutes? The more you read their posts, the more they sound like scientologists. What about ASIO (MI6) bot prostitutes who work for the dole? ;D

-whataboutism-
Enter-the-bot-/-other-CCP-prostitute.-

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 8^th, 2022 at 9:52pm:

Funny thing is - in Arab ME nations that don't shoot themselves in the foot all the time with their petty rivalries and infighting - the locals retain a significant proportion of the profits from petroleum, and sell petrol etc to their own people at fantastic prices compared to what we pay.

"Fantastic"? Certainly cheap:  petrol in Saudi Arabia is c. 60 cents /litre. (US cents).


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If you wish to argue that the social arrangements in those nations mean that the top dogs get most and trickle-down is minimal etc - address that -

That's the situation the world over


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but clearly there is no US/UK monopoly in the ME these days.... fair trade and negotiation works!!

Nonsense. OPEC is a cartel, yet meanwhile Western companies are ripping off entire nations eg Nigeria.


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Petrol $0.88 Au in Saudi - $1.78 here ........ courtesy of the global economy... and it's far worse for diesel fuel.... $0.23 there - nearly $2.00 here. You got it yet?

Already addressed. But Venzuela and Iran are crippled by US sanctions, and Nigerai is being raped by Shell.


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I blame the global economy - YOU?

So do I. But unlike you, I correctly lay the blame at the feet of international financiers controlled by the current global hegemon the US and its agencies the IMF (Instant Misery Fund) and the World Bank. 


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Oh - and the feminists for removing the balls from the west.....

I knew you would come up with the wrong reasons....


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No nation, culture or civilisation ruled by women has ever survived the first onslaught of the next patriarchal society to come along and challenge it... nor will the west if it continues its downward spiral into control by the pussy

Otoh, you will be complicit in extinction of life on the planet, in the age of MAD, if you insist on a nuclear- arms race to settle disputes between nations. 



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......  BTW QE lasted one reign... QE II the same.... I'll miss Liz when she goes - the last of a good or better lot.

Contradicting your 'anti-pussy' rant above....

Cleopatra? Thatcher? (never mind...)


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Fancy meeting you here Under this current sky Countless times we'd like to Know the total reason why Yearly cost of fuel just goes Openly to the sky Up!

You demonstrably  have no clue about macro- economics and finance, either at the national or global arena.

Check the MMT thread to begin to learn something. 

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 12:37pm:

-whataboutism- Enter-the-bot-/-other-CCP-prostitute.-

You are not qualified to speak about -whataboutism- , since you are blinded by your instinctive, delusional  "freedom" ideology.

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 12:37pm:

athos wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 12:26pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 3:23pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 3:15pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 2:45pm: Yet eerily in sync with the CCP's propaganda and misinformation arm of its security bureau with training their prostitutes. Only to a deluded "individual rights" ideologue whose perception of reality is grossly distorted by that blind instinct-based ideology. You're eating too many dried grasshopper legs. What is it about CCP prostitutes? The more you read their posts, the more they sound like scientologists. What about ASIO (MI6) bot prostitutes who work for the dole? ;D -whataboutism- Enter-the-bot-/-other-CCP-prostitute.-

Western so-called "freedom and democracy" is opium for morons like you.
None of this exists in the West except two party cartels backed by oligarchy and corporate fascism.

athos wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 1:00pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 12:37pm: athos wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 12:26pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 3:23pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 3:15pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 2:45pm: Yet eerily in sync with the CCP's propaganda and misinformation arm of its security bureau with training their prostitutes. Only to a deluded "individual rights" ideologue whose perception of reality is grossly distorted by that blind instinct-based ideology. You're eating too many dried grasshopper legs. What is it about CCP prostitutes? The more you read their posts, the more they sound like scientologists. What about ASIO (MI6) bot prostitutes who work for the dole? ;D -whataboutism- Enter-the-bot-/-other-CCP-prostitute.- Western so-called "freedom and democracy" is opium for morons like you. None of this exists in the West except two party cartels backed by oligarchy and corporate fascism.

What-questions-do-you-always-ask-as-a-prostitute?-

athos wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 1:00pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 12:37pm: athos wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 12:26pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 3:23pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 3:15pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 2:45pm: Yet eerily in sync with the CCP's propaganda and misinformation arm of its security bureau with training their prostitutes. Only to a deluded "individual rights" ideologue whose perception of reality is grossly distorted by that blind instinct-based ideology. You're eating too many dried grasshopper legs. What is it about CCP prostitutes? The more you read their posts, the more they sound like scientologists. What about ASIO (MI6) bot prostitutes who work for the dole? ;D -whataboutism- Enter-the-bot-/-other-CCP-prostitute.- Western so-called "freedom and democracy" is opium for morons like you. None of this exists in the West except two party cartels backed by oligarchy and corporate fascism.

Saw-the-videos-on-CCP-officials-hoarding-food-to-sell-at-inflated-prices.-

In China, unlike West, political legitimacy is built on competence and experience.

It is widely assumed in the West that the legitimacy of a government comes from universal suffrage and multiparty competitive elections. Yet this assumption raises two issues: First, historically, it is not true ― universal suffrage is a recent development. One can claim, for instance, that U.S. administrations only became truly legitimate in 1965, when African Americans (Or Australian Aborigines) won the right to vote. Furthermore, this practice is confined only to nation-states. It is difficult to imagine that, say, the European Union could establish its legitimacy and play its unifying role on the basis of universal suffrage.

These two points help us better understand why the Chinese sense of legitimacy is vastly different from the Western one. China is not a typical quazi nation (convict)-state but rather a deeply historical and civilizational state. It is an amalgam of the world’s oldest continuous civilization and a huge modern state with its sense of legitimacy rooted deeply in its history. An apt analogy would be to something like the Roman Empire, if it had endured into the 21st century ― with regional and cultural diversities, a modern economy, a centralized government and a population nearly equal to that of 100 average-size European nations combined, speaking thousands of different dialects while sharing one written language.

This kind of state, a product of hundreds of states amalgamated into one over a long history, would become ungovernable if it were to adopt an adversarial political model. Such was the case in China beginning with the 1911 revolution that established the Republic of China. The country attempted to copy the American model and degenerated into chaos, with rival warlords fighting each other and tens of millions of lives lost in the decades that followed.

As a civilizational state, the legitimacy of China’s government is deeply rooted in its own historical tradition, shaped over the millennia since the country was first unified under the Emperor Qin in 221 B.C. China’s one-party governance today may look illegitimate in the eyes of many Westerners but to most Chinese. For most of the past 2,000 years, China has practiced a kind of one-party rule: governance by a unified Confucian elite that was selected through public exams (the keju) and which claimed to represent — or genuinely represented — most, if not all, under heaven. Furthermore, during much of the one-party era, China was arguably better governed, more peaceful and more prosperous than the European states of the same epoch. China began to lag behind Europe when it closed its door to the outside world in the 18th century and missed the Industrial Revolution.

As Francis Fukuyama has observed in his book The Origins of Political Order, “It is safe to say that the Chinese invented modern bureaucracy, that is, a permanent administrative cadre selected on the basis of ability rather than kinship or patrimonial connection.” China’s keju system was long used to select the most talented individuals into leading positions in government.
:)

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 12:19pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 8:01pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 8th, 2022 at 3:46pm: My conscious cortex brain, to overcome the disastrous effects of the reptilian brain in all of us.  Your repetitive CCP tropes are too similar to scientology's to be coincidental. Interesting. So Hubbard was onto something? Quote: Look up some words from the scientology lexicon. iirc, something to do with becoming "clear"..... "Achieving the state of Clear means a person has overcome the reactive mind and is in complete control of their analytical mind. According to Hubbard: "A Clear is a being who no longer has his own reactive mind, and therefore suffers none of the ill effects the reactive mind can cause". Well, I hadn't realized it, but Ron was apparently also aware of the effects of the reptilian brain. [quote]Wouldn't be hard work for you to weave them into CCP-speak. I don't have to. The existence of the CCP merely shows Marxist collectivism has a basis in reality. [quote]I think that's the show right there. Both the CCP and scientology were founded by paranoid psychopaths whose obsession with power established a mechanism by which their respective systems could be exploited by future psychopaths. The crucial difference being that the CCP infected an entire nation.

Addressed and refuted above. [/quote]


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Try 'suppressive person' and 'squirrel'.

Try addressing my post, or like Lisa and freediver, be  exposed as a debating fraud. 


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Some rules the CCP instructs to its prostitutes to follow:

I have no idea of the "rules the CCP instructs to its prostitutes to follow"...so let's find out:


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1. 'Limit your knowledge of the world. Close you five senses. Limiting the perception and awareness of the five senses makes you deaf and blind to external things [beyond CCP doctrine]'.

The exact description of what happens when the unconscious reptilian brain distorts the cortex brain's capacity for rational thought.


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2. 'Pleasure is like wine; it makes you drunk every day. Destroy your enemies' moral values and beliefs'.

I'm a teetotaler yet can tune into joy everyday. What of "my enemies"?


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3. 'Threaten the people like a knife'.

Sounds like the paranoid narrative of a delusional "freedom" ideologue.


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4. 'Deflect away from the argument. [whataboutism]'.

You are the expert at deflection, being blind. I don't know about the CCP and "whataboutism". The fact remains aboriginals are drinking themselves to death surrounded by broken plonk  bottles on Broome beaches, in a most egregious example of state genocide.  "Whataboutism"?


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5. 'Deny you are paid or instructed by the CCP. Promote yourself as a free thinker'.

I can't speak for the CCP, only for myself;  nor am I instructed by them. 


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As you and the bot, (or the other CCP prostitute here), Athos follow.

Time to drop your nonsense narrative, and confront YOUR delusional, deadly "freedom" ideology. 


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The CCP's modus operandi is identical to scientology.

Well certainly both my - and Hubbard's -  understanding of the schizophrenic nature of the human mind is a given, I don't know of the CCP's awareness of what Jeremy Griffith calls "the (psychotic) human condition"

Hope you are enjoying the siege at Mariupol, courtesy of the delusional "freedom" ideology still directing human affairs, at a time when war needs to be outlawed, in the age of MAD.    

The Communist Party of China has adapted this tradition for modern China, building a system for selecting its leaders based on merit and performance. For example, China’s top decision-makers ― members of the Standing Committee of the CPC Political Bureau, including President Xi Jinping ― have almost all served at least twice as party secretaries or governors of a province, which means, given the size of China’s population, they have administered populations of 100 million or more and performed well before being promoted to their top-echelon positions.

The former approximately refers to public opinion and the latter to the hearts and minds of the people. The terms were first put forward by Mencius, the most famous Confucian philosopher after Confucius himself. Minyi can be fleeting and change overnight, especially in today’s internet age, while minxin tends to be stable and lasting, reflecting the long-term interest of an entire nation. Over the past three decades, the Chinese state has generally practiced rule by minxin. This allows China to plan for the medium and long term, and even for the next generation, rather than for the next 100 days or until the next election, as is the case with many Western democracies.

To sum up, while the West has for so many years promoted the Western political model in the name of universal values, China has pursued its own experiments in the political domain since 1978, drawing lessons from the disastrous Cultural Revolution, in which ideological radicalism expunged China’s governance traditions and dashed people’s hope for prosperity and order. Thanks to this effort, China has since managed to varying degrees of success to reestablish a connection with its own past as well as borrow many useful elements from the West.

China’s meritocratic system today is essentially a mechanism of “selection plus election,” with the former originating from China’s own tradition and the latter imported from the West. Pioneered by China’s late leader Deng Xiaoping, this institutional arrangement has succeeded in ensuring an orderly transition of power over the past three decades. However imperfect, this system is in a position to compete with the Western political model. Indeed, it would be inconceivable for the Chinese system today to produce an awkward leader like U.S. President Donald Trump.

The Chinese experience since 1978 shows that the ultimate test of a political system is how well it ensures good governance as judged by the people. The dichotomy of “democracy versus autocracy” sounds hollow in today’s complex world, given the large number of poorly governed “democracies.” China’s experience may eventually usher in a paradigm shift in international political discourse from democracy versus autocracy to good governance versus bad governance.

Good governance can take the form of the Western political system or a non-Western one. Likewise, bad governance may take the form of the Western political system or a non-Western one. China emphasizes substance over procedures, believing that ultimately the pursuit of substance will evolve and produce the right procedures, appropriate to each nation’s own traditions and conditions.

A plethora of uncertainties are gripping the world today for reasons directly related to how government legitimacy has been defined by the West. It’s high time to pause and reflect that China’s age-old wisdom and well-tested practices may be relevant beyond China.

CCP heads—thugs and career bureaucrats, corrupt to the core.

That is why 400m Chinese are in lockdown, because the idiot Xi pretended there was no COVID in China.

Basically the heads of China—a bunch of nazies!

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 1:21pm:

The exact description of what happens when the unconscious reptilian brain distorts the cortex brain's capacity for rational thought.

That's a good example of a feature of the Chinese mindset under the CCP.

It has a 19th century village-speak to it.

It's commonly observed in a Chinese pharmacist when traditional Chinese medicine is being discussed.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 1:21pm:

I don't have to. The existence of the CCP merely shows Marxist collectivism has a basis in reality.

Even Marx went off his own theories towards the end of his life; and Engels owned a factory exploiting cheap labour from rural Manchester.

Jovial Monk wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 2:00pm:

CCP heads—thugs and career bureaucrats, corrupt to the core. That is why 400m Chinese are in lockdown, because the idiot Xi pretended there was no COVID in China. Basically the heads of China—a bunch of nazies!

Worthless ideological rhetoric. 

Go back to sleep, brainless "freedom" war-monger. 

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 2:22pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 1:21pm: The exact description of what happens when the unconscious reptilian brain distorts the cortex brain's capacity for rational thought. That's a good example of a feature of the Chinese mindset under the CCP.

Whataboutism?
See,  we are all flawed, that is the point. But the CCP at least acknowledges the collective.


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It has a 19th century village-speak to it. It's commonly observed in a Chinese pharmacist when traditional Chinese medicine is being discussed.

Yes, undoubtedly pockets of superstition still exist in regional China. India and Africa are even more backward.


Quote:

Even Marx went off his own theories towards the end of his life; and Engels owned a factory exploiting cheap labour from rural Manchester.

And so the search for good governance on behalf of collective well-being continues (as opposed to merely individual success).
     

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 3:04pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 2:22pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 1:21pm: The exact description of what happens when the unconscious reptilian brain distorts the cortex brain's capacity for rational thought. That's a good example of a feature of the Chinese mindset under the CCP. Whataboutism? See,  we are all flawed, that is the point. But the CCP at least acknowledges the collective. Quote: It has a 19th century village-speak to it. It's commonly observed in a Chinese pharmacist when traditional Chinese medicine is being discussed. Yes, undoubtedly pockets of superstition still exist in regional China. India and Africa are even more backward.

:D :D :D

https://www.china-admissions.com/shanghai-university-of-traditional-chinese-medicine-shutcm/

https://english.bucm.edu.cn/about_us/general_introduction/index.htm

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2022 at 4:26pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on May 7th, 2022 at 3:59pm: Name the "brutal cultures" Islam is pretty brutal, and hostile to democracy.

Yes, but that doesn't stop people apologising for the Saudis, now does it?

Frank wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 3:12pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 3:04pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 2:22pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 1:21pm: The exact description of what happens when the unconscious reptilian brain distorts the cortex brain's capacity for rational thought. That's a good example of a feature of the Chinese mindset under the CCP. Whataboutism? See,  we are all flawed, that is the point. But the CCP at least acknowledges the collective. Quote: It has a 19th century village-speak to it. It's commonly observed in a Chinese pharmacist when traditional Chinese medicine is being discussed. Yes, undoubtedly pockets of superstition still exist in regional China. India and Africa are even more backward. :D :D :D https://www.china-admissions.com/shanghai-university-of-traditional-chinese-medicine-shutcm/ https://english.bucm.edu.cn/about_us/general_introduction/index.htm

" The SHUTCM recognizes its role in inheritance and further development of Chinese medicine and firmly believes Chinese medicine can promote the health of population worldwide".

"Scientific trials around the world have found that when acupuncture is performed by a skilled practitioner, it is a safe and useful treatment for many different disorders".

Bias_2012 wrote on May 7^th, 2022 at 3:59pm:

Name the "brutal cultures"

Er.... every tribal culture.
Aboriginal, native American, African, any communist country, any Islamic country, any martial society, any slave holding society, anywhere that women are not emancipated, illiterate cultures.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 3:04pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 2:22pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 1:21pm: The exact description of what happens when the unconscious reptilian brain distorts the cortex brain's capacity for rational thought. That's a good example of a feature of the Chinese mindset under the CCP. Whataboutism? See,  we are all flawed, that is the point. But the CCP at least acknowledges the collective.

That wasn't whataboutism. That's a comment on your 19th-century mindset.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 3:04pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 2:22pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 1:21pm: The exact description of what happens when the unconscious reptilian brain distorts the cortex brain's capacity for rational thought. That's a good example of a feature of the Chinese mindset under the CCP. Whataboutism? See,  we are all flawed, that is the point. But the CCP at least acknowledges the collective. Quote: It has a 19th century village-speak to it. It's commonly observed in a Chinese pharmacist when traditional Chinese medicine is being discussed. Yes, undoubtedly pockets of superstition still exist in regional China. India and Africa are even more backward.

It is taught in all medical universities in China and all medical students are expected to take CTM seriously, but not to study its efficacy, just to peddle pseudoscience.

Chinese medical universities under the CCP are more backward than you could find anywhere in the 3rd world.

Laowhy86 has a video interviewing foreign medical students who studied 'medicine' in Chinese universities. I can post it here if you like.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 3:04pm:

Quote: Even Marx went off his own theories towards the end of his life; and Engels owned a factory exploiting cheap labour from rural Manchester. And so the search for good governance on behalf of collective well-being continues (as opposed to merely individual success).

Neither Marx nor Engels ultimately had any faith in their theories.

They were also unashamedly racist. Both of them openly wrote and spoke of the inferiority of the yellow and black races.

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 3:55pm:

That wasn't whataboutism. That's a comment on your 19th-century mindset.

I don't have a 19th century mindset. Acupuncture has Western scientific backup...so not all TCM is superstitition.

Whereas you (being a deluded "freedom" ideologue)  still cling to the obsolete 18th century concept of 'absolute national sovereignty', making you complicit in all the wars currently disfiguring our world.   

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 4:08pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 3:55pm: That wasn't whataboutism. That's a comment on your 19th-century mindset. I don't have a 19th century mindset. Acupuncture has Western scientific backup...so not all TCM is superstitition.

Yeah you do.

And acupuncture is a pseudoscience.

The contest today is between a US plutocracy, in which the bottom 50% of the population has experienced stagnant or declining livings standards since 1990, cf the meritocracy in China in which the bottom 50% of the population has experienced the fastest increase in living standards over the same period, in all of China's 2200 year history.
Actually In USA and the rest of the the west nothing left of democracy, there are only plutocracy
and oligarchy that successfully control everything.
Western democracy is dead but two party cartel “democracy” ruled by plutocracy and corporatocracy (Corporate fascism) are flourishing.
It is time for the west to acknowledge that China is the most successful capitalist country and that the CCP, apart from its formal name, has nothing to do with communist ideology but with meritocracy. China has proven to have a much more successful capitalism than corrupted deep state Plutocracy of the US-western Empire.

https://youtu.be/RO3izbn201s

In China if you work hard and demonstrate positive results, you will become the highest official in a district or county. As President Xi did in 1983, he became the highest official in Zhengding County. You have to own the experience to manage hundreds of thousands or even millions of people.

Next, you have to become a city official in charge of industry or agriculture or education or commerce. Then, you become a mayor. It will take you another few years. In 1990, President Xi became the top leader of Fuzhou City, Fujian Province.

Now, fight for the governor! You need to repeat your previous work. The difference is that your responsibilities are greater and your work is more onerous. In 2000, President Xi became governor of Fujian Province. A new political star.

After becoming the governor of a relatively small province, you have to be the governor of a relatively large province. Or you can go to border areas, such as Xinjiang or Tibet. President Hu Jintao, the former Supreme Leader of China, was once the governor of Tibet.

The Political Bureau is one of the central leading bodies of the CPC. You must be a member of it. Members of the Political Bureau are elected by the plenary session of the Central Committee. It's your next goal.

Deputies to the National People's Congress ( NPC) are members of the highest organ of state power in China and are elected in accordance with law. You also have to be one of the NPCs.

If you can become a member of the Standing Committee of the Political Bureau of the CPC Central Committee, it usually consists of seven or nine people, which means that you have entered the core of China's state power. In 2007, President Xi was elected. Similarly, different standing committees are responsible for managing different areas of the country. Through fierce competition, you finally become the top leader of China.

In 2012, President Xi succeeded. Although he can be called "political genius" (which country's leader is not? ）He still spent 40 years on this road.

The above is the difficult road for you to become China's top leader. I call it Chinese style democracy. It is based on a strict selection system and the election of deputies to the people's Congress at all levels. In China, it works.

Every country should choose a political system suitable for its national conditions. No "good" or "bad". I don't think that only west style democracy system is "good". I only believe in the facts.

https://youtu.be/li6xcTsVPB4

Who does rule America and rest of the west?

Democracy in the west has been replaced by plutocracy and corporate fascism.
The role of the official state has been replaced by a deep state that represents the interests of large corporations, Wall Street and the Military complex.
The senile president of the United States is just the puppet of a deep state.

https://youtu.be/hoVQ6EihvTc

When is Xi up for popular election? Athos?

When British (Australian) head of state  is up for popular election? Jovial Monk?
;D

Answer my question, fascist!

athos wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 6:03pm:

When British (Australian) head of state  is up for popular election? Jovial Monk? ;D

Whataboutism-again.

How-much-garlic-does-the-average-Chinese-prisoner-peel?-

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 6:08pm:

athos wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 6:03pm: When British (Australian) head of state  is up for popular election? Jovial Monk? ;D Whataboutism-again. How-much-garlic-does-the-average-Chinese-prisoner-peel?-

Firstly you and your Anglo Disneyland must suppress your arrogance, become humble and respect others, otherwise God will make you humble.
That could be very painful.

"If you're not humble in this world, then the world will throw humbleness upon you."
Mike Tyson

https://youtu.be/_caTG65c03M?t=13

The bot or deluded idiot Athos has not yet told me when Xi is up for re-election.

When is that, Athos?

Or is Xi the Chinese Fuhrer, ein reich, ein volk, ein arsehole?

athos wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 6:03pm:

When British (Australian) head of state  is up for popular election? Jovial Monk? ;D

The non-political personification of a nation going back centuries is not a matter of elections, bozo.

Jovial Monk wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 5:50pm:

When is Xi up for popular election? Athos?

Never. he and the CCP know what's best for the Chinese better than the Chinese.

Frank wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 6:19pm:

athos wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 6:03pm: When British (Australian) head of state  is up for popular election? Jovial Monk? ;D The non-political personification of a nation going back centuries is not a matter of elections, bozo.

How could "non-political personification" dismiss democratically elected Australian Prime Minister Gough Whitlam? bozo.
;D

Frank wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 6:21pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 5:50pm: When is Xi up for popular election? Athos? Never. he and the CCP know what's best for the Chinese better than the Chinese.

Convict Yobbos know what is best for Chinese.
;D

https://media3.giphy.com/media/13ZHjidRzoi7n2/giphy.gif

athos wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 6:11pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 6:08pm: athos wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 6:03pm: When British (Australian) head of state  is up for popular election? Jovial Monk? ;D Whataboutism-again. How-much-garlic-does-the-average-Chinese-prisoner-peel?- Firstly you and your Anglo Disneyland must suppress your arrogance, become humble and respect others, otherwise God will make you humble. That could be very painful. "If you're not humble in this world, then the world will throw humbleness upon you." Mike Tyson []https://youtu.be/_caTG65c03M?t=13[]

In-China-under-the-CCP,-humbleness-is-to-learning-
to-claw-back-some-dignity-after-a-rectal-prolapse.-

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 4:02pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 3:04pm: Quote: Even Marx went off his own theories towards the end of his life; and Engels owned a factory exploiting cheap labour from rural Manchester. And so the search for good governance on behalf of collective well-being continues (as opposed to merely individual success).       Neither Marx nor Engels ultimately had any faith in their theories. They were also unashamedly racist. Both of them openly wrote and spoke of the inferiority of the yellow and black races.

You blind, dangerous "freedom" ideologue, incapable of rational argument, so you ignore the points to which you think you are replying...try again:

"And so the search for good governance on behalf of collective well-being continues (as opposed to mere governance for individual success).

Athos has contributed a fine series of posts highlighting the differences between adversarial 2-party liberal democracy and consensus one party meritocracy, for your education ...an impossible task, since your capacity for rational analysis is too distorted by your unconscious reflexive reptilian brain. 

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 8:59pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 4:02pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 3:04pm: Quote: Even Marx went off his own theories towards the end of his life; and Engels owned a factory exploiting cheap labour from rural Manchester. And so the search for good governance on behalf of collective well-being continues (as opposed to merely individual success).       Neither Marx nor Engels ultimately had any faith in their theories. They were also unashamedly racist. Both of them openly wrote and spoke of the inferiority of the yellow and black races. You blind, dangerous "freedom" ideologue, incapable of rational argument, so you ignore the points to which you think you are replying...try again: "And so the search for good governance on behalf of collective well-being continues (as opposed to mere governance for individual success). Athos has contributed a fine series of posts highlighting the differences between adversarial 2-party liberal democracy and consensus one party meritocracy, for your education ...an impossible task, since your capacity for rational analysis is too distorted by your unconscious reflexive reptilian brain.

A fine series of posts, eh. A bot.

As for Marx and Engels, being the racists they were, neither of them would have been surprised the mess the 'yellow race' made of their theories that even both of them had abandoned.

Frank wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 6:21pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 5:50pm: When is Xi up for popular election? Athos? Never. he and the CCP know what's best for the Chinese better than the Chinese.

And the channel 9 debate shows evidence that Albo or Scomo know what's best for the country?  And most of the electorate which hasn't had a day's education in civics courses, nor economics? 
Hence the hyperpartisan gridlock of the blind-leading-the-blind 'democracy' rabble.

Enjoy the uplifting (!!) debates (!!) of the next two weeks; you deserve the mind numbing idiocy to which you will be subjected.

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 9:07pm:

As for Marx and Engels, being the racists they were,

The vast majority of Europeans were racist in  the 19th century. Ouch. 


Quote:

neither of them would have been surprised the mess the 'yellow race' made of their theories that even both of them had abandoned.

Mere conjecture; what isn't in doubt is the evil, deadly
consequences of your delusional "freedom" ideology on collective  well-being in a global economy.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 9:15pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 9:07pm: As for Marx and Engels, being the racists they were, The vast majority of Europeans were racist in  the 19th century. Ouch.  Quote: neither of them would have been surprised the mess the 'yellow race' made of their theories that even both of them had abandoned. Mere conjecture; what isn't in doubt is the evil, deadly consequences of your delusional "freedom" ideology on collective  well-being in a global economy.

Racists - As the Chinese people are encouraged to be today. Ask a non-Chinese who's travelled around China (particularly if they are brown-skinned or black).

Wait a couple more months when the death-rate starts to spiral in China to the degree that even the CCP can't cover it up. That's when you'll know what real delusion looks like. Nobody does delusion like the CCP.

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 9:21pm:

Racists - As the Chinese people are encouraged to be today. Ask a non-Chinese who's travelled around China (particularly if they are brown-skinned or black).

Er ...racism is alive and well everywhere , it's a human failing (courtesy of the reptilian brain), especially among "the deplorables"  on the Rabid Right in the West, dunno about China...I'll take your word for it.   


Quote:

Wait a couple more months when the death-rate starts to spiral in China to the degree that even the CCP can't cover it up. That's when you'll know what real delusion looks like. Nobody does delusion like the CCP.

Yes delusions are discovered by their unintended manifestations.

But re China, will "deaths spiral" because of the severe lock-downs causing starvation, or because of "letting it rip", as in the US with 1 million dead?

Meanwhile your delusions are egregious and catastrophic, but you have so little insight you are blind to it.

See Jeremy Griffith: "the human psychosis".   

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 9:39pm:

Quote: Wait a couple more months when the death-rate starts to spiral in China to the degree that even the CCP can't cover it up. That's when you'll know what real delusion looks like. Nobody does delusion like the CCP. Yes delusions are discovered by their unintended manifestations. But re China, will "deaths spiral" because of the severe lock-downs causing starvation, or because of "letting it rip", as in the US with 1 million dead? Meanwhile your delusions are egregious and catastrophic, but you have so little insight you are blind to it.

The net excess deaths in China over the last 2 years are in the millions and could be as high as 15 million.

Granted, China under the CCP is a dump, outside the Tier 1 showcase cities, so the deaths could be attributable to mass food poisoning due to unsanitary handling and storage which is common in China under the CCP as health standards are virtually non-existent there.

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 9:50pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 9:39pm: Quote: Wait a couple more months when the death-rate starts to spiral in China to the degree that even the CCP can't cover it up. That's when you'll know what real delusion looks like. Nobody does delusion like the CCP. Yes delusions are discovered by their unintended manifestations. But re China, will "deaths spiral" because of the severe lock-downs causing starvation, or because of "letting it rip", as in the US with 1 million dead? Meanwhile your delusions are egregious and catastrophic, but you have so little insight you are blind to it. The net excess deaths in China over the last 2 years are in the millions and could be as high as 15 million.

Link? And "could be" is mere conjecture.


Quote:

Granted, China under the CCP is a dump, outside the Tier 1 showcase cities, so the deaths could be attributable to mass food poisoning due to unsanitary handling and storage which is common in China under the CCP as health standards are virtually non-existent there.

You mean like health standards among aborigines in regional and remote area in Oz, with life expectancy gap of 20 years?

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 9:58pm:

You mean like health standards among aborigines in regional and remote area in Oz, with life expectancy gap of 20 years?

Whataboutism again. You need to find something else to do with that bottle.

And, no, I mean the hundreds of millions of Chinese people who live in unsanitary conditions due to no health care provision.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 9:15pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 9:07pm: As for Marx and Engels, being the racists they were, The vast majority of Europeans were racist in  the 19th century. Ouch.

The Chinoise still are. Racist, chauvinist, parochial, narrow minded stooges. Like you.

Proud of being parochial little chauvinist pricks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DqvweTYTI0

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 10:03pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 9:58pm: You mean like health standards among aborigines in regional and remote area in Oz, with life expectancy gap of 20 years? Whataboutism again. You need to find something else to do with that bottle. And, no, I mean the hundreds of millions of Chinese people who live in unsanitary conditions due to no health care provision.

.....ie, like Oz aborigines.....

I have a mirror here, but don't ask me for it, it's expensive....

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 10:15pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 10:03pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 9:58pm: You mean like health standards among aborigines in regional and remote area in Oz, with life expectancy gap of 20 years? Whataboutism again. You need to find something else to do with that bottle. And, no, I mean the hundreds of millions of Chinese people who live in unsanitary conditions due to no health care provision. .....ie, like Oz aborigines..... I have a mirror here, but don't ask me for it, it's expensive....

I'd bet you've never been to an aboriginal community.

The CCP denies health care to millions of Chinese people unless they can pay through the nose and also pay kickbacks to CCP officials. If the locals complain, they'll be asked to 'have tea' with the local police; things  that don't happen in Australia.

Frank wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 10:07pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 9:15pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 9:07pm: As for Marx and Engels, being the racists they were, The vast majority of Europeans were racist in  the 19th century. Ouch.  The Chinoise still are. Racist, chauvinist, parochial, narrow minded stooges.

All very human failings.


Quote:

Like you.

How is a vision of eradicating war and poverty "Racist, chauvinist, parochial, narrow minded"?


Quote:

Proud of being parochial little chauvinist pricks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DqvweTYTI0

A human failing, to be sure.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 10:22pm:

How is a vision of eradicating war and poverty "Racist, chauvinist, parochial, narrow minded"?

It is a lie, like everything else China spouts.  China lies. China cheats. China cannot and must not be trusted.


China is corrupt. China is oppressive. China is the enemy of everything humane. China is the evil empire. Everything about China is ultimately shite.

At the third session of the 13th National People's Congress in 2020 alone, deputies to the NPC put forward 506 motions and 9000 suggestions. The people's Congress system is the cornerstone of China's law making, not just “rubber-stamp”.

I think democracy is a process of universal participation, and every citizen should participate in the formulation of national policies. At the same time, the formulation of national policies should not only listen to public opinions, but also be based on reason and science.
Take China's 14th five year plan as an example. After the government put forward the draft, the NPC solicited opinions and suggestions from the whole society through the Internet and the media. More than one million suggestions have been received from Chinese citizens, many of which have been adopted.
In daily life, any dissatisfaction, complaint and suggestion of Chinese citizens to the government can be submitted through the "12345" system of each city. According to the law, any government department must reply and deal with it within 72 hours until the citizens are satisfied. If some government departments treat it negatively, the performance appraisal of their officials will be greatly affected.

Whether it is democracy in which the head of state is directly elected by vote or multi-level representative democracy in China, I think it’s just different form of democracy.
According to the Munich Security Index in 2021, Chinese people have the highest sense of security in the world. Isn't that exactly the purpose of democracy?

When I introduced China's political system to foreign friends, I had to emphasize repeatedly the concept that China's political system is “a socialist (capitalist) system with Chinese characteristics”. It is different from the Soviet Union style political system, also different from the distorted fundamentalist liberal capitalism or communism.

Throughout the years, the ideology of the CPC has changed together with the change of the party leaders. And between all the changes in the party history, the most well-known and significant period would be the reform and opening up which pursue socialist modernization by incorporating useful elements of capitalism. After Deng Xiaoping, the leader who tried to avoid unnecessary theoretical debates, Jiang Zemin invented a new theory to define the new relationship between the party and the people, which is named “Three Represents.”Since then, the CPC identified itself as the representatives in three levels:

- Representing the development trend of China’s advanced productive forces.
- Representing the orientation of China's advanced culture.
- Representing the fundamental interests of the overwhelming majority of the Chinese people.

China's political system has three cornerstones:
The system of party representatives of the Communist Party of China, the system of the National People's Congress, and the system of the National Committee of the Chinese people's Political Consultative Conference.

The role that CPPCC plays in the Chinese government is stated in the preamble of the PRC Constitution. In practice, its role and powers are somewhat analogous to an advisory legislative upper house.

"The Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference, a broadly based representative organization of the united front which has played a significant historical role, will play a still more important role in the country’s political and social life, in promoting friendship with other countries and in the struggle for socialist modernization and for the reunification and unity of the country. The system of the multi-party cooperation and political consultation led by the Communist Party of China will exist and develop for a long time to come."

The CPPCC is neither a body of state power nor a policy-making organ, but an important platform for democratically participating in state affairs. In practice, CPPCC members serve as advisors for the government and legislative and judicial organs.

The Chinese Communist Party and the aligned "democratic parties" participate in the CPPCC. Besides political parties, CPPCC has also representatives from various sectors of society in its ranks.

The above is only about the political system, how the CPC unites intellectuals, businessmen and other non party personages. As for the economic system, the CPC is more flexible, so I will not elaborate.

Few people think about why such CPC (CCP) still has the support of 1.4 billion Chinese people.
I'm trying to tell you about China's advantages and why we support the CPC (CCP).

1. China persists in socialism, but doesn't exclude benefits of capitalism.

2. China persists in the leadership of the CPC, but doesn't exclude other parties from supervising the govt.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElaVk-LUUAAtReG?format=jpg&name=900x900

3. China's "mix-suitable" economic model is rare in the world. China is neither a complete public ownership economy nor a complete market economy. This mix-suitable mode is very effective.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElaVzfkUUAAsPaU?format=png&name=900x900

4. The policies of the China govt are in keeping with the aspiration of the people. For example, abolishing agricultural taxes, eliminating poverty, giving preferential treatment to ethnic minorities, and actively providing disaster relief etc.

5. China's leadership selection system. The selection of China's senior leaders will take decades to examine, and no interest group can control it.

6. The "whole country system" . If the China govt wants to do anything that we think is important, we can almost succeed because we can use the financial, human and material resources of the whole country to do it without any hindrance. In order to treat the COVID19 patients in Wuhan, we have built a large modern hospital in 10 days.

7. The new generation of young people is becoming the pillars of China. In China's aerospace, nuclear energy, electronics, chips, high-speed rail and other fields, the average age of main force is only 39.4 years old, and 40% of them are returned students abroad .

8. China has the most complete industrial system in the world. From making a needle to making an aircraft carrier, from design to finished product, we don't need any help from other countries if we want to. However, we prefer international cooperation.

9. China has huge financial stocks. China has nearly $4 trillion in reserves and $2.1 trillion in US debt. The China govt's fiscal surplus, bank deposits and other reserves amount to about 8 trillion RMB.

10. China has an independent and innovative Internet ecosystem. Sina, WeChat, Taobao, Alipay, Jingdong, Meituan, DIdi...
These amazing enterprises in a very short period of time to create many unique business models and great value.

11. China has a rare ability of macro-control. The Asian financial crisis and the subprime mortgage crisis made by the US didn't make impact on China. And the possible crisis in China itself has been quickly reduced.

12. China has a huge market. We can drive the market by self consumption. At the same time, China can submerge markets that we think are harmful.

13. China is good at long-term planning. China has implemented 13 five-year plans. "One belt, One road", may be a 50 years plan. The ability to anticipate and presuppose can effectively deal with any crisis.

14. Good govt decisions are handed down from generation to generation. In China, "serving the people" and "reform and opening up" have been in effect for decades. The "five foreign policies of peaceful coexistence" put forward by former Premier Zhou Enlai are still China's diplomatic principles. This is the embodiment of a trustworthy and responsible country.

15. With the development of China in the past 70 years, it has not developed in one field, but in all fields.
In every field, China is definitely the most potential, if not the best in the world.

In this forum, brainwashed people are keen to talk about various doctrines, ideologies and political views unaware of their ignorance and indoctrinated mind. Many of them ridicule and even hate China's political system either because of their racism or other malicious reasons. They tend to regard the 1.4 billion Chinese as no-face slaves. They think that we are all supporters of fanatical dictators, and we have no soul and thoughts of our own.
Since the end of the Qing Dynasty in China, the Chinese have opened the most incredible social experiment in the world. We tried constitutional monarchy, parliamentary system, presidential system, republican system and almost all modern democratic systems. Finally, we have chosen the best of it all, without dogmatic prejudices, that can suite us.

Over the past 70 years, the CPC has transformed China from a backward and semi colonial agricultural country into an advanced and independent industrial country, becoming the second largest economy in the world, with the average life expectancy rising from 35 to 77 years.

Isn't any political system designed to make its country strong and its people live a good life?

We love China, we support the CPC (CCP).
I can't represent all 1.4 billion Chinese, but I think most Chinese people are like me.
China is old and young at the same time with wisdom and enthusiasm. Unlike other confused quasi "nations" we have very strong national and cultural identity and we are very hopeful about the future.
:)

athos wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 8:50am:

Few people think about why such CPC (CCP) still has the support of 1.4 billion Chinese people. I'm trying to tell you about China's advantages and why we support the CPC (CCP). 1. China persists in socialism, but doesn't exclude benefits of capitalism. 2. China persists in the leadership of the CPC, but doesn't exclude other parties from supervising the govt. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElaVk-LUUAAtReG?format=jpg&name=900x900 3. China's "mix-suitable" economic model is rare in the world. China is neither a complete public ownership economy nor a complete market economy. This mix-suitable mode is very effective. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElaVzfkUUAAsPaU?format=png&name=900x900 4. The policies of the China govt are in keeping with the aspiration of the people. For example, abolishing agricultural taxes, eliminating poverty, giving preferential treatment to ethnic minorities, and actively providing disaster relief etc. 5. China's leadership selection system. The selection of China's senior leaders will take decades to examine, and no interest group can control it. 6. The "whole country system" . If the China govt wants to do anything that we think is important, we can almost succeed because we can use the financial, human and material resources of the whole country to do it without any hindrance. In order to treat the COVID19 patients in Wuhan, we have built a large modern hospital in 10 days. 7. The new generation of young people is becoming the pillars of China. In China's aerospace, nuclear energy, electronics, chips, high-speed rail and other fields, the average age of main force is only 39.4 years old, and 40% of them are returned students abroad . 8. China has the most complete industrial system in the world. From making a needle to making an aircraft carrier, from design to finished product, we don't need any help from other countries if we want to. However, we prefer international cooperation. 9. China has huge financial stocks. China has nearly $4 trillion in reserves and $2.1 trillion in US debt. The China govt's fiscal surplus, bank deposits and other reserves amount to about 8 trillion RMB. 10. China has an independent and innovative Internet ecosystem. Sina, WeChat, Taobao, Alipay, Jingdong, Meituan, DIdi... These amazing enterprises in a very short period of time to create many unique business models and great value. 11. China has a rare ability of macro-control. The Asian financial crisis and the subprime mortgage crisis made by the US didn't make impact on China. And the possible crisis in China itself has been quickly reduced. 12. China has a huge market. We can drive the market by self consumption. At the same time, China can submerge markets that we think are harmful. 13. China is good at long-term planning. China has implemented 13 five-year plans. "One belt, One road", may be a 50 years plan. The ability to anticipate and presuppose can effectively deal with any crisis. 14. Good govt decisions are handed down from generation to generation. In China, "serving the people" and "reform and opening up" have been in effect for decades. The "five foreign policies of peaceful coexistence" put forward by former Premier Zhou Enlai are still China's diplomatic principles. This is the embodiment of a trustworthy and responsible country. 15. With the development of China in the past 70 years, it has not developed in one field, but in all fields. In every field, China is definitely the most potential, if not the best in the world. Over the past 70 years, the CPC has transformed China from a backward and semi colonial agricultural country into an advanced and independent industrial country, becoming the second largest economy in the world, with the average life expectancy rising from 35 to 77 years. Isn't any political system designed to make its country strong and its people live a good life? We love China, we support the CPC (CCP). I can't represent all 1.4 billion Chinese, but I think most Chinese people are like me. China is old and young at the same time with wisdom and enthusiasm. Unlike other confused quasi "nations" we have very strong national and cultural identity and we are very hopeful about the future.

An-example-of-the-CCP's-obsessional-inferiority-complex.-
And-1.4-billion-people-support-the-CCP??-Without-a-general-election-
how-would-the-CCP-know-that?-
Poverty-has-not-been-eliminated-in-China.
Chinese-society-is-class-structured,-with-CCP-red-princelings-at-the-apex,-
CCP-seniors-next,-with-the-vast-majority-as-an-underclass.
All,-every-,-best,-greatest--
Excessive-use-of-absolutes-is-a-sign-of-an-inferiority-complex,-not-confidence.

athos wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 8:50am:

Many of them ridicule and even hate China's political system either because of their racism or other malicious reasons.

We-ridicule-the-CCP-because-it-serves-only-itself-
not-the-Chinese-people;-not-because-of-racism.-
None-of-us-has-a-problem-with-the-Taiwanese-
or-the-Singaporeans-or-the-people-of-Hong-Kong-
even-as-their-society-is-being-raped-by-the-CCP.

In 2020, China's GDP has exceeded 100 trillion yuan, including 32.16 trillion yuan of goods import and export (17.93 trillion yuan of exports and 14.2 trillion yuan of imports). Exports account for 17% of China's GDP. The year when China exported the most was 2006. At that time, export trade accounted for 35.4% of GDP. In 2019, it dropped to 17.4% of GDP, which is lower now. In the future, the proportion of China's exports will be close to 15% and 12%, and the proportion of domestic circulation will be close to 85% and 90% from 82.6%.

China is the largest single market in the world. Industries with comparative advantages should make full use of the international market. China also has industries without comparative advantages. The vast majority of developed countries are willing to sell China high-tech products with comparative advantages, except for a few countries. China will continue to maintain stable development in international trade.

Democracy is not the only possible political system that suits every country and "The West is not the best".
Before the West took for granted democracy from the ancient Greeks, they should have at least become acquainted with what Greek thinkers said about democracy like Plato in his work "Republic", where he characterized democracy as one of the worst possible political systems. Plato uses the Republic to criticize democracy, which makes it suitable for mass ignorance, hysteria and, ultimately, tyranny.
And that is exactly what is happening in the West at the moment, from the corrupt two party cartels, to the tyranny of plutocracy and corporate fascism.
Taking for granted democracy without reading Plato's Republic was the same as accepting Christianity without ever having heard of the Bible, and that is exactly what the West has done in its arrogance and ignorance.
Unlike the West, China does not consider democracy as a religion (dogmatic political system) but as a dynamic process with own creative input that aims to achieve prosperity for both the country and the people who live in it.
The Chinese people do not need Western democracy because they are completely happy without it. If the West is satisfied with its democracy, that is fine as long as they keep it to themselves and do not impose it on others. We do not want western decline, we prefer our undisputed progress.

What kind of country was China in 1949? It is a poor and backward agricultural country.

In the first 30 years after the founding of new China (Mao's 30 years), China achieved national independence, people's Liberation and national unity; China has established the basic socialist system in an all-round way; On the ruins left by the old China, China has basically established an independent and relatively complete industrial system and national economic system in a much shorter time than the western countries, which has laid a solid material and technological foundation for the modernization drive.

India gained independence in 1947, when life expectancy was 32 years. When new China was founded in 1949, the life expectancy of the Chinese was 35 years - three years higher than that of India. By 1978, the last year before China's reform, life expectancy was 67 in China and 55 in India - the gap widened to 12.

The widening gap is not because of India's poor performance - life expectancy has increased by 22 years in 32 years, but because of China's excellent performance - life expectancy has increased by 32 years in 29 years. This means that before the reform, Chinese life expectancy increased by more than one year a year - an average annual increase of 2.3%.

By comparison, we have a better understanding of the true scale of this achievement. It should be pointed out that, compared with other major countries in human history, China's life expectancy growth rate is the fastest in the 30 years after 1949. For example:

- In the 30 years after 1880, life expectancy in the United States increased by 0.9% annually.
- After 1871, life expectancy in the UK experienced a period of rapid growth, with an annual growth rate of less than 1.0% .
- Japan's life expectancy growth is more significant, and it is a country that has achieved rapid growth in the economic recovery after WW II. In the 29 years after 1947, the average annual growth rate of life expectancy is 1.3%.

As a result, China's 2.3% increase in life expectancy between 1949 and 1978 is far higher than those calculated by normal standards in these countries, and its performance is unprecedented.

This is only one of Mao Zedong's many achievements, but I personally think it is his most important achievement, because the right to life is the most important human right.

His other achievements, for example, under the joint sanctions and embargoes of the Soviet Union and the United States, enabled China to have the capability of nuclear deterrence and launching satellites, and enabled China to return to the UN and became one of the five permanent members.

Of course, the CPC and Mao also made many mistakes in the "first 30 years" of new China, and the development of our country suffered serious setbacks as a result. This is the price to pay in the process of exploration“ The new road of reform and opening-up in the last 30 years is created on the basis of summing up the experience and lessons of the first 30 years. We should treat the "first 30 years" of new China with respect for history.

athos wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 10:13am:

Democracy is not the only possible political system that suits every country and "The West is not the best". Before the West took for granted democracy from the ancient Greeks, they should have at least become acquainted with what Greek thinkers said about democracy like Plato in his work "Republic", where he characterized democracy as one of the worst possible political systems. Plato uses the Republic to criticize democracy, which makes it suitable for mass ignorance, hysteria and, ultimately, tyranny. And that is exactly what is happening in the West at the moment, from the corrupt two party cartels, to the tyranny of plutocracy and corporate fascism. Taking for granted democracy without reading Plato's Republic was the same as accepting Christianity without ever having heard of the Bible, and that is exactly what the West has done in its arrogance and ignorance. Unlike the West, China does not consider democracy as a religion (dogmatic political system) but as a dynamic process with own creative input that aims to achieve prosperity for both the country and the people who live in it. The Chinese people do not need Western democracy because they are completely happy without it. If the West is satisfied with its democracy, that is fine as long as they keep it to themselves and do not impose it on others. We do not want western decline, we prefer our undisputed progress.

Plato-later-conceded-that-democracy-acts-
more-reasonably-and-moderately-than-any-
other-system.-Also-Plato's-logical-flaw-in-The-
Republic,-which-he-could-not-correct-was-,what-
if-the-philosopher-king-did-not-have-the-best-
interests-of-the-people-at-heart?-How-would-the-
people-remove-him-(Short-of-his-abdicating)?-
The-CCP-does-not-have-the-best-interests-of-
the-Chinese-people-at-heart.-How-can-the-Chinese-
people-correct-this?-

athos wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 10:13am:

The Chinese people do not need Western democracy because they are completely happy without it.

How-do-you-know-the-Chinese-people-
are-happy-with-the-CCP-and-without-democracy?

The CCP could try disarming the PLA and paramilitaries, see how long before the Chinese people start voicing demands for freedoms!

athos wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 10:13am:

Democracy is not the only possible political system that suits every country and "The West is not the best". Before the West took for granted democracy from the ancient Greeks, they should have at least become acquainted with what Greek thinkers said about democracy like Plato in his work "Republic", where he characterized democracy as one of the worst possible political systems. Plato uses the Republic to criticize democracy, which makes it suitable for mass ignorance, hysteria and, ultimately, tyranny. And that is exactly what is happening in the West at the moment, from the corrupt two party cartels, to the tyranny of plutocracy and corporate fascism. Taking for granted democracy without reading Plato's Republic was the same as accepting Christianity without ever having heard of the Bible, and that is exactly what the West has done in its arrogance and ignorance. Unlike the West, China does not consider democracy as a religion (dogmatic political system) but as a dynamic process with own creative input that aims to achieve prosperity for both the country and the people who live in it. The Chinese people do not need Western democracy because they are completely happy without it. If the West is satisfied with its democracy, that is fine as long as they keep it to themselves and do not impose it on others. We do not want western decline, we prefer our undisputed progress.

:D :D :D

The West has fought for democracy. Plato is on the shelves of every Western university.

You can be critical of democracy in democracies. You cannot be critical of communist dictatorship in communist dictatorships.

athos wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 10:13am:

Democracy is not the only possible political system that suits every country and "The West is not the best". Before the West took for granted democracy from the ancient Greeks, they should have at least become acquainted with what Greek thinkers said about democracy like Plato in his work "Republic", where he characterized democracy as one of the worst possible political systems. Plato uses the Republic to criticize democracy, which makes it suitable for mass ignorance, hysteria and, ultimately, tyranny. And that is exactly what is happening in the West at the moment, from the corrupt two party cartels, to the tyranny of plutocracy and corporate fascism. Taking for granted democracy without reading Plato's Republic was the same as accepting Christianity without ever having heard of the Bible, and that is exactly what the West has done in its arrogance and ignorance. Unlike the West, China does not consider democracy as a religion (dogmatic political system) but as a dynamic process with own creative input that aims to achieve prosperity for both the country and the people who live in it. The Chinese people do not need Western democracy because they are completely happy without it. If the West is satisfied with its democracy, that is fine as long as they keep it to themselves and do not impose it on others. We do not want western decline, we prefer our undisputed progress.

Excellent contribution. But the blind "individual freedom" ideologues aren't capable of rational analysis.
 

thegreatdivide wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 1:00pm:

athos wrote on May 10th, 2022 at 10:13am: Democracy is not the only possible political system that suits every country and "The West is not the best". Before the West took for granted democracy from the ancient Greeks, they should have at least become acquainted with what Greek thinkers said about democracy like Plato in his work "Republic", where he characterized democracy as one of the worst possible political systems. Plato uses the Republic to criticize democracy, which makes it suitable for mass ignorance, hysteria and, ultimately, tyranny. And that is exactly what is happening in the West at the moment, from the corrupt two party cartels, to the tyranny of plutocracy and corporate fascism. Taking for granted democracy without reading Plato's Republic was the same as accepting Christianity without ever having heard of the Bible, and that is exactly what the West has done in its arrogance and ignorance. Unlike the West, China does not consider democracy as a religion (dogmatic political system) but as a dynamic process with own creative input that aims to achieve prosperity for both the country and the people who live in it. The Chinese people do not need Western democracy because they are completely happy without it. If the West is satisfied with its democracy, that is fine as long as they keep it to themselves and do not impose it on others. We do not want western decline, we prefer our undisputed progress. Excellent contribution. But the blind "individual freedom" ideologues aren't capable of rational analysis.

Do you sometimes talk to kitchen appliances and toilets?

America is currently ruled by a corporatocracy, where corporate fascism with Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg and Jack Dorsey can impose censorship on a democratically elected president, and then let deep state organize a coup and remove him from office.
China will never allow an oligarchs (for example like Jack Ma) to impose the rule of corporate fascism, instead of having a corporation that serves the interests of the people in the country.
Let the corporate mafia rule America, but not China.

JACK MA understood all of that and now he is fine.

athos wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 1:47pm:

Let the corporate mafia rule America, but not China. JACK MA understood all of that and now he is fine.

The-CCP-is-a-corporate-mafia.-
Jack's-fine,-eh!-
How's-Jack-Ma-enjoying-his-CCP-imposed-non-freedom?-

Western mentality is always one of brutal action when confronted with something that they do not like and understand. they seek to dominate in order to bring perceived meaning to their self-designated righteous superiority. The west has no clue how to answer to China and have embarked on an ancient old tradition of propagating war and destruction. They know that china is outmaneuvering them at every corner with class, peace, and resolve. This approach is not only portrayed as alien in substance but also as unacceptable by the west who needs all to play according to their rules of might is right (as they see themselves despite the dire and rapidly degrading condition of their societies). They need and want China to play by their books in order to be able to contain china through their own, and only known, tactic and method of conducting war as the only solution to a problem. The barbaric western psyche has not evolved a bit despite coming into contact with so many various cultures and civilizations, from which they could have learned so much, over the span of centuries.

:)

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 1:52pm:

athos wrote on May 10th, 2022 at 1:47pm: Let the corporate mafia rule America, but not China. JACK MA understood all of that and now he is fine. The-CCP-is-a-corporate-mafia.-

In the eyes of a deluded"freedom" ideologue. 


Quote:

Jack's-fine,-eh!- How's-Jack-Ma-enjoying-his-CCP-imposed-non-freedom?-

Still a billionaire? 

athos wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 1:56pm:

Western mentality is always one of brutal action when confronted with something that they do not like and understand. they seek to dominate in order to bring perceived meaning to their self-designated righteous superiority. The west has no clue how to answer to China and have embarked on an ancient old tradition of propagating war and destruction. They know that china is outmaneuvering them at every corner with class, peace, and resolve. This approach is not only portrayed as alien in substance but also as unacceptable by the west who needs all to play according to their rules of might is right (as they see themselves despite the dire and rapidly degrading condition of their societies). They need and want China to play by their books in order to be able to contain china through their own, and only known, tactic and method of conducting war as the only solution to a problem. The barbaric western psyche has not evolved a bit despite coming into contact with so many various cultures and civilizations, from which they could have learned so much, over the span of centuries.

How's-the-psychopathic-lockdowns-enforced-by-the-CCP-going?

thegreatdivide wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 1:59pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 10th, 2022 at 1:52pm: athos wrote on May 10th, 2022 at 1:47pm: Let the corporate mafia rule America, but not China. JACK MA understood all of that and now he is fine. The-CCP-is-a-corporate-mafia.- In the eyes of a deluded"freedom" ideologue.

Do you often dream of Xi Jinping naked?

As I said before, the Chinese people have tried various political systems. In the end, we chose the socialist - capitalist system with unike Chinese characteristics.

I want to emphasize once again that there is no perfect system in the world. Every country must find a political system suitable for its own history and culture.

There is no reason for forcing a country to accept or abandon a political system, whether it's "democratic liberalism" or "communism" or "socialism" or other "...ism".

At the same time, each country must adjust and optimize its own system. For China, the CPC (CCP) is constantly carrying out self criticism and even self denial without dogmatic barriers.

The CPC was founded in 1921. However, the CPC in 1921 was different from the CPC in World War II, was different from the CPC when the people's Republic of China founded in 1949, was different from the CPC during the cultural revolution, was different from the CPC after reform and opening up, and was different from the CPC after China becoming the second largest economy in the world.

It is this dynamic ability of continuous self evolution that enables the CPC to adapt to China's different situations in different historical periods and has been supported by the people.

Therefore, I hope that our foreign friends can see China and the CPC with a developing eyes, rather than staying at a certain historical stage. I also hope that they are able to rationally examine their own national systems and political parties according to the same standards.
:)

athos wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 2:06pm:

As I said before, the Chinese people have tried various political systems. In the end, we chose the socialist - capitalist system with unike Chinese characteristics.

Communism-was-forced-on-the-Chinese-people-
after-the-nationalists-were-depleted-by-their-
war-with-Japan,-while-the-communists-hid-in-the
hills.-Even-Mao-acknowledged-this.

Did the people chose that, or CCP apparatchiks?

athos wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 2:06pm:

As I said before, the Chinese people have tried various political systems. In the end, we chose the socialist - capitalist system with unike Chinese characteristics. I want to emphasize once again that there is no perfect system in the world. Every country must find a political system suitable for its own history and culture. There is no reason for forcing a country to accept or abandon a political system, whether it's "democratic liberalism" or "communism" or "socialism" or other "...ism". At the same time, each country must adjust and optimize its own system. For China, the CPC (CCP) is constantly carrying out self criticism and even self denial without dogmatic barriers. The CPC was founded in 1921. However, the CPC in 1921 was different from the CPC in World War II, was different from the CPC when the people's Republic of China founded in 1949, was different from the CPC during the cultural revolution, was different from the CPC after reform and opening up, and was different from the CPC after China becoming the second largest economy in the world. It is this dynamic ability of continuous self evolution that enables the CPC to adapt to China's different situations in different historical periods and has been supported by the people. Therefore, I hope that our foreign friends can see China and the CPC with a developing eyes, rather than staying at a certain historical stage. I also hope that they are able to rationally examine their own national systems and political parties according to the same standards. :)

Conservatives can't understand the concept of "continuous self evolution".

Jovial Monk wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 2:09pm:

Did the people chose that, or CCP apparatchiks?

People don't "choose" government, they accept it.

Elections only give the illusion of choice; meanwhile poverty and war remain the reality, under US global hegemony.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 2:11pm:

athos wrote on May 10th, 2022 at 2:06pm: As I said before, the Chinese people have tried various political systems. In the end, we chose the socialist - capitalist system with unike Chinese characteristics. I want to emphasize once again that there is no perfect system in the world. Every country must find a political system suitable for its own history and culture. There is no reason for forcing a country to accept or abandon a political system, whether it's "democratic liberalism" or "communism" or "socialism" or other "...ism". At the same time, each country must adjust and optimize its own system. For China, the CPC (CCP) is constantly carrying out self criticism and even self denial without dogmatic barriers. The CPC was founded in 1921. However, the CPC in 1921 was different from the CPC in World War II, was different from the CPC when the people's Republic of China founded in 1949, was different from the CPC during the cultural revolution, was different from the CPC after reform and opening up, and was different from the CPC after China becoming the second largest economy in the world. It is this dynamic ability of continuous self evolution that enables the CPC to adapt to China's different situations in different historical periods and has been supported by the people. Therefore, I hope that our foreign friends can see China and the CPC with a developing eyes, rather than staying at a certain historical stage. I also hope that they are able to rationally examine their own national systems and political parties according to the same standards. :) Conservatives can't understand the concept of "continuous self evolution".

If the people of China could exercise political expression and critical engagement with their political system without fear for their safety and liberty - there would be no CCP rule in China.

It is only surveillance and oppression that keeps the CCP in power, nothing else. Certainly not "continuous self evolution" (what a cack handed neologism from the Chinese Ministry of Truth).

thegreatdivide wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 2:11pm:

Conservatives can't understand the concept of "continuous self evolution".

What did the washing machine say when you spoke to it about this?

Frank wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 2:19pm:

It is only surveillance and oppression that keeps the CCP in power, nothing else. Certainly not "continuous self evolution" (what a cack handed neologism from the Chinese Ministry of Truth).

And national achievements like this :

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202205/1265214.shtml

It is the fourth time that the 53.1-meter-long, 3.35-meter-diameter Long March-7 rocket carried its Tianzhou passengers to space. Having established perfect coordination between the two space buddies, the rocket's flight reliability assessment value has reached 0.9838, an internationally advanced level, indicating a stabilized overall technical status of the rocket.

While NASA has been forced to outsource its launches to a narcissist like Musk, because of lack of funds from the divided US congress...

athos wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 1:47pm:

America is currently ruled by a corporatocracy, where corporate fascism with Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg and Jack Dorsey can impose censorship on a democratically elected president, and then let deep state organize a coup and remove him from office. China will never allow an oligarchs (for example like Jack Ma) to impose the rule of corporate fascism, instead of having a corporation that serves the interests of the people in the country. Let the corporate mafia rule America, but not China. JACK MA understood all of that and now he is fine.

Dear Leader never had his Twitter account banned when he was prez, dear. He was a private citizen who was banned for spreading hate speech. Twitter gave him countless warnings. Anybody else would have been banned years ago.

It would help if you cite your sources. Some are quite reasonable. Others - like this - are mere propaganda.

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 2:05pm:

athos wrote on May 10th, 2022 at 1:56pm: Western mentality is always one of brutal action when confronted with something that they do not like and understand. they seek to dominate in order to bring perceived meaning to their self-designated righteous superiority. The west has no clue how to answer to China and have embarked on an ancient old tradition of propagating war and destruction. They know that china is outmaneuvering them at every corner with class, peace, and resolve. This approach is not only portrayed as alien in substance but also as unacceptable by the west who needs all to play according to their rules of might is right (as they see themselves despite the dire and rapidly degrading condition of their societies). They need and want China to play by their books in order to be able to contain china through their own, and only known, tactic and method of conducting war as the only solution to a problem. The barbaric western psyche has not evolved a bit despite coming into contact with so many various cultures and civilizations, from which they could have learned so much, over the span of centuries. How's-the-psychopathic-lockdowns-enforced-by-the-CCP-going?

It is obvious that people like you are not worried about China because of some noble reason or your love for the Chinese, but because of the attempt to justify your idea of Western exceptionalism and hegemony.
:)

The Chinese-built standard-gauge railway (SGR) linking Kenya's port city Mombasa to its capital Nairobi has witnessed 1,500+ days of safe operation, a milestone marking the achievements of joint development between China and African countries via the Belt and Road Initiative.

The Mombasa-Nairobi Railway connects Nairobi, the capital of Kenya, and Mombasa, the largest port in East Africa, with a total length of about 480 kilometers. It is a modern railway constructed with Chinese standards, Chinese technology, and Chinese equipment.

The Mombasa-Nairobi SGR, which replaced the meter-gauge railway that was constructed more than 100 years ago during British colonial rule, has been an important product that came out of the China-proposed Belt and Road Initiative and the Forum on China-Africa Cooperation held in Johannesburg, South Africa, in late 2015.

The Mombasa-Nairobi SGR is the first step in the grand plan to build an East Africa railway network that will eventually link Kenya with Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi and South Sudan.

Different from the way the British colonists operated railways in the early days, the railways that China helped Africa build will be operated by African countries themselves, and China will be responsible for providing technical and service training.

“It is better to teach how to fish, than to provide the fish.” -- This is a basic idea that China has always emphasized when cooperating with other developing countries. I don't think what China is doing is a kind of "charity" or "aid". What China is doing is creating a new economic model of sustainable development.

What many poor developing countries, especially some African countries, lack is infrastructure and the funds and capacity to build it, as well as the talents to operate it. China can provide funds and build capacity, but China's goal is not only to find overseas markets for its excess infrastructure capacity, but through this cooperation, African countries can participate in the global economic cycle, so that they can develop low and medium-end industries and become a market for high-end products.
:)

No matter what doubts people have about the CPC and China's political system, it is difficult to deny the success of the CPC.
In 1949, China was still a poor semi colonial country, with an average life expectancy of 35 years. Today, China has been
regarded by the powerful G7 as a competitor that can not be ignored.

athos wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 2:53pm:

It is obvious that people like you are not worried about China because of some noble reason or your love for the Chinese, but because of the attempt to justify your idea of Western exceptionalism and hegemony.

Given-how-well-the-Taiwanese-are-running-their-
state-(remember-it-was-the-Taiwanese-that-warned-
the-world-of-covid-in-Wuhan),-I-would-wish-for-the-
Chinese-people-the-same-system-of-government-at-that-
of-Taiwan.
Those-who-use-the-term:-the-people'-or-the-peoples'-xxx-
are-invariably-an-enemy-of-people.

athos wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 3:03pm:

No matter what doubts people have about the CPC and China's political system, it is difficult to deny the success of the CPC. In 1949, China was still a poor semi colonial country, with an average life expectancy of 35 years. Today, China has been regarded by the powerful G7 as a competitor that can not be ignored.

Not-much-to-be-proud-of-
the-Chinese-went-from-eating-their-own-sh!t-
to-a-bowl-of-rice.-
There-is-nowhere-in-China-that-is-not-polluted-
or-free-from-using-slave-labour,-
More-to-be-ashamed-of-than-proud-of.

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 3:09pm:

athos wrote on May 10th, 2022 at 3:03pm: No matter what doubts people have about the CPC and China's political system, it is difficult to deny the success of the CPC. In 1949, China was still a poor semi colonial country, with an average life expectancy of 35 years. Today, China has been regarded by the powerful G7 as a competitor that can not be ignored. Not-much-to-be-proud-of- the-Chinese-went-from-eating-their-own-sh!t- to-a-bowl-of-rice.-

..and being one of only  2 nations with a rover on Mars.....


Quote:

There-is-nowhere-in-China-that-is-not-polluted- or-free-from-using-slave-labour,- More-to-be-ashamed-of-than-proud-of.

Slave labor - like the low paid, insecure, gig-economy mickey-mouse jobs in the fake financial western FIRE economies (finance, insurance, real-estate). 

thegreatdivide wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 3:20pm:

Slave labor - like the low paid, insecure, gig-economy mickey-mouse jobs in the fake financial western FIRE economies (finance, insurance, real-estate).

Slave labor - like the no paid, and treated like pigs. The CCP loves 'the people'; just not people.

China is full of sh!t jobs, literally. Like making gutter oil.

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 3:29pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 10th, 2022 at 3:20pm: Slave labor - like the low paid, insecure, gig-economy mickey-mouse jobs in the fake financial western FIRE economies (finance, insurance, real-estate).  Slave labor - like the no paid, and treated like pigs. The CCP loves 'the people'; just not people. China is full of sh!t jobs, literally. Like making gutter oil.

Making gutter oil isn't a sh!t job if it serves a purpose.

And did you forget the space station - soon to be the only one in space when the ISS is decommissioned mid decade; and the Mars rover?

And the commissioning of nuclear energy plants , and the fastest roll-out of renewable energy in the world, on the way to achieving a clean, green economy by mid century?   

athos wrote on May 9^th, 2022 at 5:36pm:

Every country should choose a political system suitable for its national conditions. No "good" or "bad". I don't think that only west style democracy system is "good". I only believe in the facts.

Agreed. Citizens should have the right to vote for their constitutions. In China, the constitution is decided by the Central Committee. No one gets a say in decisions such as appointing Xi president for life.

I don't think only Western style democracy is good either, but it justifies itself by being accepted by its citizens.

For example, our constitution was changed in 1967 to include the Aboriginal population. The Liberal Party didn't come to a decision and change the law, it introduced the policy, citizens became engaged, a national debate occurred and Australians overwhelmingly voted to include Aboriginal people as fellow citizens.

If anyone ever questions this, they can be pointed to the 67 referendum to show the change was supported by the population. We voted. Case closed.

In 1949, the PLA invaded and occupied Tibet. There was no vote, no one got a say. This was Mao's demonstration of power "from the barrel of a gun". China will never be able to justify its occupation of Tibet for this reason.

In Australia, there's a move for Aboriginal sovereignty. Aboriginal groups have suggested the creation of an Aboriginal nation, which could theoretically succeed from Australia at some point. For this to happen, it would need to go to a referendum. The chances of this happening are slim, but the debate is tolerated and encouraged, as are debates for reconciliation, constitutional recognition and a treaty.

The various organs of the Australian government generally encourage people's independence - some more, some less. Few government departments want more work. But a debate of this nature could never occur in China - even a discussion could land you in jail. This means your system is effectively decided at the barrel of a gun. We see this all over China now - in Tibet, sure, but Hong Kong and if we want to include health measures, Shanghai.

We had no say over covid restrictions too, but the government listened, encouraged debate and responded to the population. The covid zero strategy followed by the CCP, with all its restrictions and loss of liberty, could never happen in a democratic country. It can only happen in China because you have no say. Your respective officials, governors and ministers are unelected. They can effectively do what they want and you have to accept it. You can't even publicly question it. And if one of them dislikes you or wants to silence you, they can have you arrested and detained. Your sentence will be decided by the CCP too.

So yes, Athos, we agree. People should have the right to decide on their own citizenship, their own leadership, and up to a point, their own liberty. At the very least, if they're detained, it should be for a good reason. Without any form of popular participation in government - be it through a vote or some other way - China can never have these things.

For this reason, you will never convince anyone of the merits of a Chinese system of government here.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 3:59pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 10th, 2022 at 3:29pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 10th, 2022 at 3:20pm: Slave labor - like the low paid, insecure, gig-economy mickey-mouse jobs in the fake financial western FIRE economies (finance, insurance, real-estate).  Slave labor - like the no paid, and treated like pigs. The CCP loves 'the people'; just not people. China is full of sh!t jobs, literally. Like making gutter oil. Making gutter oil isn't a sh!t job if it serves a purpose. And did you forget the space station - soon to be the only one in space when the ISS is decommissioned mid decade; and the Mars rover? And the commissioning of nuclear energy plants , and the fastest roll-out of renewable energy in the world, on the way to achieving a clean, green economy by mid century?

There are millions of slave-like jobs in China under the CCP. Just ask and I will post videos on the kinds of jobs and lives rural migrant workers lead in Chinese cities.

Everytime the CCP claims fastest, it turns out to be a disastrous farce. Like the 'pop-up' covid hospitals at the beginning of the pandemic. They were never used and were unusable anyway. Turns out you can't force cement to dry faster than it does. The hospitals leaked and infrastructure collapsed almost as soon as it was built.

As for clean energy, the CCP is accelerating the number of coal power stations being built. All likely to be disasters.

Mars? No wonder China is a dump. Their national treasure is poured into a Mars rover while, on earth, they live at eat sh!t and are forced by the CCP to call it happiness and sugar.

Jovial Monk wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 2:09pm:

Did the people chose that, or CCP apparatchiks?

Did you chose your head of state and her House of Lords?

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 4:21pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 10th, 2022 at 3:59pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on May 10th, 2022 at 3:29pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 10th, 2022 at 3:20pm: Slave labor - like the low paid, insecure, gig-economy mickey-mouse jobs in the fake financial western FIRE economies (finance, insurance, real-estate).  Slave labor - like the no paid, and treated like pigs. The CCP loves 'the people'; just not people. China is full of sh!t jobs, literally. Like making gutter oil. Making gutter oil isn't a sh!t job if it serves a purpose. And did you forget the space station - soon to be the only one in space when the ISS is decommissioned mid decade; and the Mars rover? And the commissioning of nuclear energy plants , and the fastest roll-out of renewable energy in the world, on the way to achieving a clean, green economy by mid century?    There are millions of slave-like jobs in China under the CCP. Just ask and I will post videos on the kinds of jobs and lives rural migrant workers lead in Chinese cities. Everytime the CCP claims fastest, it turns out to be a disastrous farce. Like the 'pop-up' covid hospitals at the beginning of the pandemic. They were never used and were unusable anyway. Turns out you can't force cement to dry faster than it does. The hospitals leaked and infrastructure collapsed almost as soon as it was built. As for clean energy, the CCP is accelerating the number of coal power stations being built. All likely to be disasters. Mars? No wonder China is a dump. Their national treasure is poured into a Mars rover while, on earth, they live at eat sh!t and are forced by the CCP to call it happiness and sugar.

??????????????????????????????

Sorry I only believe in the facts.
Your Parroting is meaningless and useless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiuzNWjexxw

https://youtu.be/iiuzNWjexxw

Building all those projects adds to Global warming ... the Chinese ought to ease up and not build so many, the emissions must be at pretty high levels while they are building them ... and the use of that infrastructure also adds to emissions. Look at all the concrete in those projects - heaps

Warming melts ice caps which results in flooded islands from the rise in sea level. The West is trying to figure out how we can live a modern lifestyle without a gross excess of emissions. That's why the West appears to be dying or "giving up" ... but we are just in a transition stage from not giving a damn about Planet Earth, to giving a damn

athos wrote on May 11^th, 2022 at 11:58am:

Sorry I only believe in the facts. Your Parroting is meaningless and useless. []https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiuzNWjexxw[]

Wait-till-its-infrastructure-fails-as-happens-
with-infrastructure-built-by-the-CCP-in-China.-

Karnal wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 4:17pm:

athos wrote on May 9th, 2022 at 5:36pm: Every country should choose a political system suitable for its national conditions. No "good" or "bad". I don't think that only west style democracy system is "good". I only believe in the facts. Agreed. Citizens should have the right to vote for their constitutions. In China, the constitution is decided by the Central Committee. No one gets a say in decisions such as appointing Xi president for life.

Constitutions are first written by the powerful, and are extremely difficult to change; the right to vote on  constitutional change is moot because the vote itself is subject to political disagreement, not consensus. 


Quote:

I don't think only Western style democracy is good either, but it justifies itself by being accepted by its citizens.

But when the system itself is flawed (policy determined by 50%+1; oppression of the minority),  acceptance of the system will still result in dysfunction.


Quote:

For example, our constitution was changed in 1967 to include the Aboriginal population. The Liberal Party didn't come to a decision and change the law, it introduced the policy, citizens became engaged, a national debate occurred and Australians overwhelmingly voted to include Aboriginal people as fellow citizens.

One example unique to Australia.


Quote:

In 1949, the PLA invaded and occupied Tibet. There was no vote, no one got a say. This was Mao's demonstration of power "from the barrel of a gun". China will never be able to justify its occupation of Tibet for this reason.

One example unique to China: for centuries  Tibet paid tribute to China.


Quote:

In Australia, there's a move for Aboriginal sovereignty.

...back to the aboriginal question, as if it's the most important issues facng Australians...


Quote:

Aboriginal groups have suggested the creation of an Aboriginal nation, which could theoretically succeed from Australia at some point. For this to happen, it would need to go to a referendum. The chances of this happening are slim, but the debate is tolerated and encouraged, as are debates for reconciliation, constitutional recognition and a treaty.

...tolerated by some, encouraged by others, when the real issue facing the nation is 'closing the gap'; creation of a separate aboriginal nation is impossible and  won't close the gap.  [Only Job Guarantee will do that: google the you-tube discussion between prof Bill Mitchell and Noel Pearson. But  dysfunctional neoliberal economics is the barrier to a Job Guarantee].


Quote:

The various organs of the Australian government generally encourage people's independence - some more, some less.

Nothing like the "independence" of pensioners forced to stay in bed because they can't afford power bills in winter, or the "independence" of the homeless. 


Quote:

Few government departments want more work.

The public service should exist to ensure universal access to above poverty employment, and access to health services and housing.   



Quote:

But a debate of this nature could never occur in China - even a discussion could land you in jail.

Nonsense; the CCP is ruffling some feathers in China with its crack-down on the fake Western-style funny-money industries in real estate, education, and social media, but the debate is happening.    


Quote:

This means your system is effectively decided at the barrel of a gun. We see this all over China now - in Tibet, sure, but Hong Kong and if we want to include health measures, Shanghai.

Tibet's living standards are higher than they have ever been, while poverty still exists in HK (and John Lee has said he will do something about it, it will be interesting to see if he does).


Quote:

We had no say over covid restrictions too,

Correct...so? 


Quote:

but the government listened, encouraged debate

....seriously? And those (silly) people who disagreed with lock-downs were ostracized or idolized, depending on their particular audience.

Only when it became impossible for government to persist with lock-downs, without causing social disobedience, after it appeared (to most people)  to be relatively safe to lift restrictions.   


Quote:

and responded to the population. The covid zero strategy followed by the CCP, with all its restrictions and loss of liberty, could never happen in a democratic country.

Indeed the current restrictions in China may be too severe.


Quote:

It can only happen in China because you have no say. Your respective officials, governors and ministers are unelected.

Ah, the "elected" mantra again; govt.  CCP officials live among the public too, and are obviously aware of the issues: explaining policy is the key.   (cont).

Karnal wrote on May 10^th, 2022 at 4:17pm:

So yes, Athos, we agree. People should have the right to decide on their own citizenship, their own leadership, and up to a point, their own liberty.

Sounds nice but conceals terrible dysfunction,  because "people" are self-interested individuals incapable of seeing the greater good of the collective. Hence the need for a 'socialist' constitution'.

But you can have your 'democratic' constitution if you like, as athos has said; you will have to deal with the resulting social dysfunction, while China has other issues to deal with.   


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At the very least, if they're detained, it should be for a good reason.

Which in Assange's case is? 


Quote:

Without any form of popular participation in government - be it through a vote or some other way - China can never have these things.

You don't understand a consensus system; anyone can rise through the ranks of the government in China.   


Quote:

For this reason, you will never convince anyone of the merits of a Chinese system of government here.

That's because you have imbibed  the delusional "freedom" /"individual rights" cool-aid...but no-one is stopping you.

Otoh, your "individual freedom" delusion causes you to perceive  China's consensus model as a threat.
Sad.

... and of course states and government structures are never self-serving etc, and are never simply an avenue to riches and power for those in them....

Jesus, man....

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 11^th, 2022 at 2:30pm:

... and of course states and government structures are never self-serving etc, and are never simply an avenue to riches and power for those in them.... Jesus, man....

The important thing is that the state serves the people.

The question is  which model of governance can best achieve that?

Note: in the transaction tax thread you correctly noted how individuals (and companies) are taking states (ie, all of us) for a ride...

thegreatdivide wrote on May 11^th, 2022 at 2:36pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 11th, 2022 at 2:30pm: ... and of course states and government structures are never self-serving etc, and are never simply an avenue to riches and power for those in them.... Jesus, man.... The important thing is that the state serves the people. The question is  which model of governance can best achieve that? Note: in the transaction tax thread you correctly noted how individuals (and companies) are taking states (ie, all of us) for a ride...

You're kidding - the state serves the state - the people are just expendable and sometimes irritating extras ... in your scenario the people are disposed and even disposed of at the whim of the state.... wrong way around.

The longest running civil war on earth has been and remains the Eternal Civil War Between State and People over the Divine Right or Otherwise Of Elected Bodies.  Hundreds of years of steady upward social improvement for the many brought down by the Neo-Fascists among us - starting with the feminists in the 1980's, who suffer the delusion that the state has any and every right to command as it chooses without let and to abuse law to break other people's eggs to suit them.

Every other whining group since then has followed in their high heel steps..... same tactics, same never-ending complaints and demands and using every thing handed to them as just a stepping stone to more and more.

Been tellin' yez for years now how that plays into the hands of the delusional politicians who seek total power for themselves.....

Not on my watch... time to say NO!

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 11^th, 2022 at 6:53pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 11th, 2022 at 2:36pm: Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 11th, 2022 at 2:30pm: ... and of course states and government structures are never self-serving etc, and are never simply an avenue to riches and power for those in them.... Jesus, man.... The important thing is that the state serves the people. The question is  which model of governance can best achieve that? Note: in the transaction tax thread you correctly noted how individuals (and companies) are taking states (ie, all of us) for a ride... You're kidding - the state serves the state - the people are just expendable and sometimes irritating extras ... in your scenario the people are disposed and even disposed of at the whim of the state.... wrong way around.

Can't you read? I said good governance serves the people; the question is how to achieve good governance.


Quote:

The longest running civil war on earth has been and remains the Eternal Civil War Between State and People over the Divine Right or Otherwise Of Elected Bodies.

 

No, the war is between the naturally, instinctively self-interested individual, and the need for those individuals  to live in community as harmoniously as possible.   


Quote:

Hundreds of years of steady upward social improvement for the many brought down by the Neo-Fascists among us - starting with the feminists in the 1980's,

No, brought down periodically by crises in capitalism caused by greedy individuals operating in a dysfunctional system; eg The Great Depression. 


Quote:

who suffer the delusion that the state has any and every right to command as it chooses without let and to abuse law to break other people's eggs to suit them.

Neo fascists - and socialists - arise because of  dysfunctional economic systems (eg unregulated capitalism, and neoliberalism) in which greedy/clever individuals (often banksters) prosper while pauperizing the many. [Obama failed to jail ONE bankster in the GFC].

So there's the source of economic dysfunction, not the state but the individual. The state merely takes on the negative characteristics of corrupt and greedy individual.

That's why the search for good governance is an ongoing exercise.


Quote:

Every other whining group since then has followed in their high heel steps..... same tactics, same never-ending complaints and demands and using every thing handed to them as just a stepping stone to more and more.

No; in our post-industrial, global, AI and IT assisted economy, intelligent people are pointing out how the economy can be enabled to function for all, by discarding the evil money as debt system controlled by private banksters (from the Instant Misery Fund down)  for their own benefit.

http://www.profstevekeen.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/keen_for_senate-1.pdf

"Career politicians, who aren’t equipped to read
the academic literature, don’t know that
they’re being conned by economists.
At TNL, we know that the economists are
wrong. Unlike economists, climate scientists
are terrified by the prospect of a 2°C warmer
world. The crazy crises that Australia has
experienced since 2019—the fires, the
pandemic, the floods—are just a taste of what
will happen if we hit 2°C. And we’re already at
1.2°C"



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Been tellin' yez for years now how that plays into the hands of the delusional politicians who seek total power for themselves.....

You are barking up the wrong tree; it's the mainstream neoliberal economists who are misleading politicians - who of necessity are corrupted by the evil money as debt system the mainstream economists support. 

Corrupted because they (politicians) cannot keep their promises to the lectorate. 


Quote:

Not on my watch... time to say NO!

You have a completely wrong idea of what it is you are saying no to.

Democracy in strife:

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/opinion/the-second-american-civil-war-is-already-happening/ar-AAX9dZw?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=9da51bfebd7d4c83b9f4c82561f23d4c

"The US supreme court’s upcoming decision to reverse Roe v Wade (an early draft of which was leaked last week) doesn’t ban abortions; it leaves the issue to the states. As a result, it will put another large brick in the growing wall separating blue and red America.

The second American civil war is already occurring, but it is less of a war than a kind of benign separation analogous to unhappily married people who don’t want to go through the trauma of a formal divorce.
One America is largely urban, racially and ethnically diverse, and young. The other is largely rural or exurban, white and older.

The split is accelerating. Red zip codes are getting redder and blue zip codes, bluer. Of the nation’s total 3,143 counties, the number of super landslide counties – where a presidential candidate won at least 80% of the vote – jumped from 6% in 2004 to 22% in 2020".

Courtesy of blind-leading-the-blind, adversarial 2 party democracy....

Quote:

Can't you read? I said good governance serves the people; the question is how to achieve good governance.

The CCP certainly hasn't figured it out. Lies and incompetence that killed tens of millions of people, and now they are doomed to repeat their mistakes.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 12^th, 2022 at 12:39am:

Democracy in strife: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/opinion/the-second-american-civil-war-is-already-happening/ar-AAX9dZw?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=9da51bfebd7d4c83b9f4c82561f23d4c [i]"The US supreme court’s upcoming decision to reverse Roe v Wade (an early draft of which was leaked last week) doesn’t ban abortions; it leaves the issue to the states.

People deciding for themselves?   No good??

Leaves remote central office commies out of the loop? Tewwible??

Frank wrote on May 12^th, 2022 at 7:56pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 12th, 2022 at 12:39am: Democracy in strife: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/opinion/the-second-american-civil-war-is-already-happening/ar-AAX9dZw?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=9da51bfebd7d4c83b9f4c82561f23d4c [i]"The US supreme court’s upcoming decision to reverse Roe v Wade (an early draft of which was leaked last week) doesn’t ban abortions; it leaves the issue to the states. People deciding for themselves?   No good?? Leaves remote central office commies out of the loop? Tewwible??

 

No, this is what is terrible - from the article:

"One America is largely urban, racially and ethnically diverse, and young. The other is largely rural or exurban, white and older.

The split is accelerating. Red zip codes are getting redder and blue zip codes, bluer. Of the nation’s total 3,143 counties, the number of super landslide counties – where a presidential candidate won at least 80% of the vote – jumped from 6% in 2004 to 22% in 2020.

Surveys show Americans find it increasingly important to live around people who share their political values. Animosity toward those in the opposing party is higher than at any time in living memory. Forty-two per cent of registered voters believe Americans in the other party are “downright evil”.

Ah the joys of blind-leading-the-blind 2-party democracy.

And so we have it:   deluded blind "freedom" ideologues hate one another to the extent of  thinking  the other side is evil.

Enjoy.   

Will of the people, innit? They wanna be red - they're red - they wanna be blue - they're blue!

So we're surrounded by anti-democracies, eh?  The poor bastards.... but we're not descending to their level ... no sir-ee.... as a trooper from that 325 GIR said at the Elsenborn Ridge - I'm the 82nd Airborne, and this is as far as they go!

Where's Billy Jack?  Friends - it jest hurts my heart that that good old boy jest ain't here.... somebody wake 'im up....

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 13^th, 2022 at 1:08am:

Will of the people, innit?

What.... to hate one-another?

Enjoy.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 13^th, 2022 at 1:37am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 13th, 2022 at 1:08am: Will of the people, innit? What.... to hate one-another? Enjoy.

Oh,  so in China the CCP MAKES the Chinese love one another, like Jesus taught?

Who knew!??

Frank wrote on May 13^th, 2022 at 10:46am:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 13th, 2022 at 1:37am: Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 13th, 2022 at 1:08am: Will of the people, innit? What.... to hate one-another? Enjoy. Oh,  so in China the CCP MAKES the Chinese love one another, like Jesus taught? Who knew!??

Do 40% of Chinese think their compatriots are evil? 

One day the knives are going to come out for the the CCP. It has been killing and lying to the Chinese people for too long.

freediver wrote on May 13^th, 2022 at 9:52pm:

One day the knives are going to come out for the the CCP. It has been killing and lying to the Chinese people for too long.

Do 40% of Chinese  - 600 million people - think the other 800 million are evil?

thegreatdivide wrote on May 13^th, 2022 at 10:10pm:

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2022 at 9:52pm: One day the knives are going to come out for the the CCP. It has been killing and lying to the Chinese people for too long. Do 40% of Chinese  - 600 million people - think the other 800 million are evil?

What would you think of a group of leaders that kill 50 million Chinese people because they want to tell each other convenient lies about food distribution?

Or that unleash a deadly virus on the world because they tell each other convenient lies about it in the leadup to Chinese new year?

The banality of evil eh?

freediver wrote on May 14^th, 2022 at 7:47am:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 13th, 2022 at 10:10pm: freediver wrote on May 13th, 2022 at 9:52pm: One day the knives are going to come out for the the CCP. It has been killing and lying to the Chinese people for too long. Do 40% of Chinese  - 600 million people - think the other 800 million are evil? What would you think of a group of leaders that kill 50 million Chinese people because they want to tell each other convenient lies about food distribution? Or that unleash a deadly virus on the world because they tell each other convenient lies about it in the leadup to Chinese new year?

I would think they are as fraudulent as you - by your own admission..."FTW".

Meantime another democracy (Sri Lanka)  has been driven into the clutches  of the IMF (Instant Misery Fund), by the current evil global, privately-financed, money as debt system. 

As explained in the MMT thread which you fraudulently  diverted to your  privatization thread, serving those evil private  financiers controlling the global economy for their own benefit, beyond the reach of national governments.


Quote:

The banality of evil eh?

Yeh, like the evil resulting from the blind self-interest  of contending parties in democracies, aided and abetted by private financiers.   

Quote:

I would think they are as fraudulent

Do you think the CCP is fraudulent?

thegreatdivide wrote on May 14^th, 2022 at 10:25pm:

Meantime another democracy (Sri Lanka)  has been driven into the clutches  of the IMF (Instant Misery Fund), by the current evil global, privately-financed, money as debt system.

Whatever evil has fallen on the Sri Lankan people, it's due to the CCP's debt-trapping of Sri Lanka, exploiting the corrupt Rajapaksa family's tenuous grip on its quasi-dictatorship of the country, and including conditions in the agreements that allowed the CCP to meddle in Sri Lankan domestic affairs.

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 15^th, 2022 at 7:43am:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 14th, 2022 at 10:25pm: Meantime another democracy (Sri Lanka)  has been driven into the clutches  of the IMF (Instant Misery Fund), by the current evil global, privately-financed, money as debt system.  Whatever evil has fallen on the Sri Lankan people, it's due to the CCP's debt-trapping of Sri Lanka, exploiting the corrupt Rajapaksa family's tenuous grip on its quasi-dictatorship of the country, and including conditions in the agreements that allowed the CCP to meddle in Sri Lankan domestic affairs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%93present_Sri_Lankan_economic_crisis#External_debt

"Despite commentaries blaming China for the debt crisis, the Australian Lowy Institute pointed out that Sri Lanka was "not engulfed in a Chinese debt trap", because external debt owed to China was only about 10% of the debt stock in April 2021. Instead, the majority of Sri Lanka's external debt stock is owed to international capital markets, which accounted for 47%. Another 22% is held by multilateral development banks, followed by Japan having 10% of Sri Lankan external debt."


So much for  the Chinese "debt trap" diplomacy myth from a "freedom" ideologue. 

Loss of tourism  during the pandemic is another significant factor.

Meanwhile the citizens think that replacing one democratic government with another will somehow solve the problem, when the real culprits are private international money lenders.

freediver wrote on May 15^th, 2022 at 7:18am:

Quote: I would think they are as fraudulent Do you think the CCP is fraudulent?

No. The CCP has markedly reduced corruption under Xi.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 15^th, 2022 at 10:58pm:

freediver wrote on May 15th, 2022 at 7:18am: Quote: I would think they are as fraudulent Do you think the CCP is fraudulent? No. The CCP has markedly reduced corruption under Xi.

That wasn't the question.... and establishing a monopoly on corruption is not the same as reducing it....

Is the CCP fraudulent?  Is it a legitimate government and why?

thegreatdivide wrote on May 13^th, 2022 at 10:10pm:

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2022 at 9:52pm: One day the knives are going to come out for the the CCP. It has been killing and lying to the Chinese people for too long. Do 40% of Chinese  - 600 million people - think the other 800 million are evil?

Do they have the option of totally free thought - or is their thought proscribed?

thegreatdivide wrote on May 13^th, 2022 at 1:37am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 13th, 2022 at 1:08am: Will of the people, innit? What.... to hate one-another? Enjoy.

'hate' is a strong word to discuss political differences....

You are speaking as an extremist seeking to see the world in black and white..... your reasoning is very narrow and clearly governed by total misconception.......

One party state?  There are no divisions of opinion in China?  Why are there autonomous prefectures and such dotted around the place?  Even in the equivalent of a parliament in China, are there not differing views before a 'consensus' is arrived at... or does everyone think the same like a bunch of robots?  Don't the head honchos ever sit down and discuss the alternatives?

THAT is what political division is about, son - it's not about hate.... it's about looking for the best solutions..... and people in red or blue 'states' simply see one way predominantly.... nothing to do with hate.

What you see as 'hate' is robust discussion and argument over issues in pursuit of the best solutions, rather than slavishly accepting what you are given.

If you imagine that the West is divided and riven, and weak due to internal disputes - you could never be more wrong...... don't make that mistake.

Enjoy ......

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 16^th, 2022 at 1:58am:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 13th, 2022 at 10:10pm: freediver wrote on May 13th, 2022 at 9:52pm: One day the knives are going to come out for the the CCP. It has been killing and lying to the Chinese people for too long. Do 40% of Chinese  - 600 million people - think the other 800 million are evil? Do they have the option of totally free thought - or is their thought proscribed?

So we have two contrasting systems:

One in which government is by consensus arrived at by engagement of the entire population, from the local up to the national level; the other by election  achieved with 50% + 1.

Of course free-thinking is possible in either system, but awareness of self-interested individuals working against  collective well-being  is another matter.

Meanwhile the level of education in either system is critical; Murdoch's control of political thought in the US and Oz is disastrous. 

thegreatdivide wrote on May 16^th, 2022 at 7:09pm:

So we have two contrasting systems: One in which government is by consensus arrived at by engagement of the entire population, from the local up to the national level; the other by election  achieved with 50% + 1. Of course free-thinking is possible in either system, but awareness of self-interested individuals working against  collective well-being  is another matter. Meanwhile the level of education in either system is critical; Murdoch's control of political thought in the US and Oz is disastrous.

The Chinese people have no choice in who governs them; and to become a CCP official requires bribery and connections.

The Chinese people are free to think (only because private thoughts cannot be scrutinised by the state). The Chinese people are not free to express criticism of the CCP without the risk of arrest, jail, disappearance or murder.

The Chinese people are as capable of self-interest as any other people, with corruption protected from exposure and scrutiny by prohibiting free media reporting.

The last time the Chinese people protested was in 1989 and not just in Tiananmen Square - that was only what the rest of the world witnessed due to foreign media present in Beijing. Brutal oppression occurred simultaneously across cities throughout China; the true murder-toll will never be known.

Unfortunately Australia is a police state without democracy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yF7RLRS13M

There is no consensus in Chinese politics. The Chinese people did not consent to the CCP starving 50 million of them to death. Or covering up the covid outbreak and letting it run rampant over Chinese new year. That happened because the CCP apparatus of state is a lie machine. Lies go down to the people and up to the decision makers. Both remain ignorant of what is actually happening.


thegreatdivide wrote on May 15^th, 2022 at 10:58pm:

freediver wrote on May 15th, 2022 at 7:18am: thegreatdivide wrote on May 14th, 2022 at 10:25pm: freediver wrote on May 14th, 2022 at 7:47am: What would you think of a group of leaders that kill 50 million Chinese people because they want to tell each other convenient lies about food distribution? Or that unleash a deadly virus on the world because they tell each other convenient lies about it in the leadup to Chinese new year? I would think they are as fraudulent Do you think the CCP is fraudulent? No. The CCP has markedly reduced corruption under Xi.

But what about starving 50 million Chinese people to death with the Great Chinese Famine. Does that make the CCP fraudulent?

Or unleashing a deadly virus on the world because they tell each other convenient lies about it in the leadup to Chinese new year? Does that make the CCP fraudulent?