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Message started by whiteknight on Jul 16th, 2022 at 2:24pm

Title: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by whiteknight on Jul 16th, 2022 at 2:24pm
Australian homes are so cold that some are falling below the WHO's recommended 'safe' temperature
ABC News
15 Jul 2022

Amity and Micky love their rented Sydney home, except for the chilly temperatures during winter.   :(



In Amity and Mickie's rental home in Sydney, there's a room connected to the main living space by a doorway that has no door.

A note stuck to the wall reveals the family's pet name for this room: "Antarctica".



Patricia Karvelas stands next to windows, smiling at the camera.

"It's got a ceiling that's just plastic sheeting and no insulation," Mickie tells ABC RN Breakfast.

"It's absolutely freezing."   :( 

Mickie has wedged a rod above the doorway and draped a heavy curtain to try to halt the cold air wafting in, but it's not having much of an impact.

It's just one of the small modifications the family has made as they shiver through a second winter in a house they otherwise love.

And the conditions are taking a toll.

"I feel like the cold really impacts my mental health, probably more than my physical health," Amity says.

"I find it just really affects my mood, being cold."

Despite this, the family hasn't asked for any changes to the property to fix the problem because they don't want to put their landlord offside and risk eviction.

Amity looks out into the room she often refers to as 'Antarctica'. Condensation forms on the window from her breath.

But they are taking part in a national project, run by community organisation Better Renting, which is investigating just how cold Australian homes get. Their rental is one of 70 sites that has been monitored through winter for about seven weeks.

The project organisers gave the renters temperature monitoring devices to test how often their homes were below 18 degrees Celsius. This is the recommendation set by the World Health Organization for a "safe and well-balanced" indoor temperature for a home during winter.

Results so far are concerning.

For example, one night Amity put on three heaters at once, in one part of the house, to see how much she could warm it up.

She only got the temperature to 17C.

Not built for winter
Other tenants taking part in the temperature monitoring project are also struggling to heat their homes to the recommended level, according to Joel Dignam, the founder and executive director of Better Renting.

"Even in some relatively warmer parts of Australia, the average temperatures are still really low. So in New South Wales and Victoria, the average temperature in the rental properties we're tracking is still below 18C," Mr Dignam says. 

Australian houses so cold they're making people sick
As much of the country shivers through winter, how cold does your house get? Early findings from a new survey given to RN Breakfast suggest Australian properties are falling far below the international benchmark for healthy temperatures.   :(


Temperature trackers give Better Renting round-the-clock data from the 70 sites as parts of the county endure an unusually cold winter.

In the first fortnight, the data showed the homes were below 18C for 70 per cent of the time.

The coldest temperature recorded so far was 1C, logged by a participant living in their car in Hobart.

Those with a roof over their head have logged temperatures as low as 6C.

Emma Baker, who heads up the Housing and Healthy Cities Research Group at the University of Adelaide, says the data collected by Better Renting is concerning but not surprising.

It matches a 2019 study she was part of that looked at 35 homes in South Australia. None of them reached 18C in winter.

"Power used to be really cheap so Australian houses were basically designed as winter tents that you could pump a whole lot of energy into during winter and warm them up," Professor Baker says.

But that's no longer an option for many renters as power bills soar.

Researchers are also showing greater interest in the links between cold homes and health.

A little computer in the bedroom reads a temperature of 14 degrees.
The temperature in one of the bedrooms was a chilly 14C at 9am on a Sydney winter's morning.
"We know that cold housing affects people's blood pressure and their risk of cardiovascular disease, and obviously respiratory disease," Professor Baker says.

"But the really interesting thing that's been coming up lately is mental health.

"Mental health seems to be the canary in the mine, the thing that is affected first by having cold housing."

Participants in the Better Renting project have been asked about the impact their homes' temperature is having on their health and wellbeing. Ten of the 56 who responded mentioned mental health issues related to their home temperature.


Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by Bobby. on Jul 16th, 2022 at 2:51pm
It's too cold where I live -
there is no gas for heating - only a reverse cycle aircon.
I sometimes sit with a blanket around me.   :o

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 16th, 2022 at 4:02pm
When you live in a country like Australia where 9 months of the year the temperature is anywhere from warm to hot weather, you could probably forgive the builders for making homes feel as cool as possible. In a month's time, I will be opening up the windows and curtains to let the cool spring air into the house. I only need to close up the house for 2 or 3 months of the year during the winter. And I only need to put a heater on in the bedroom for a few hours of the night to sleep comfortably. The rest of the year, sometimes I cannot keep the house cool enough.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by Bobby. on Jul 16th, 2022 at 4:11pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 16th, 2022 at 4:02pm:
When you live in a country like Australia where 9 months of the year the temperature is anywhere from warm to hot weather, you could probably forgive the builders for making homes feel as cool as possible. In a month's time, I will be opening up the windows and curtains to let the cool spring air into the house. I only need to close up the house for 2 or 3 months of the year during the winter. And I only need to put a heater on in the bedroom for a few hours of the night to sleep comfortably. The rest of the year, sometimes I cannot keep the house cool enough.



But you don't live in cold, damp, dark Melbourne.
It chills you to the bones in winter.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by freediver on Jul 16th, 2022 at 4:11pm
Queenslanders are the worst. The McMansions on a slab with brick veneer and all the roof insulation are actually pretty good. Except for all the windows.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 16th, 2022 at 4:39pm

Bobby. wrote on Jul 16th, 2022 at 4:11pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 16th, 2022 at 4:02pm:
When you live in a country like Australia where 9 months of the year the temperature is anywhere from warm to hot weather, you could probably forgive the builders for making homes feel as cool as possible. In a month's time, I will be opening up the windows and curtains to let the cool spring air into the house. I only need to close up the house for 2 or 3 months of the year during the winter. And I only need to put a heater on in the bedroom for a few hours of the night to sleep comfortably. The rest of the year, sometimes I cannot keep the house cool enough.



But you don't live in cold, damp, dark Melbourne.
It chills you to the bones in winter.


We had this topic done about how to keep your house warm in the winter, about a month ago. This year, I covered the windows with towels and blankets. I must have made the house 5 degrees warmer than usual. I still use tea light candles for the toilet room -- the coldest room in the house because of its lack of closeable louvres.

And it was only just over a week ago when we had wet weather that made outside nighttime temperatures a few degrees colder than usual. So, the blankets and towels over the windows made the warmth effective.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 16th, 2022 at 4:42pm

freediver wrote on Jul 16th, 2022 at 4:11pm:
Queenslanders are the worst. The McMansions on a slab with brick veneer and all the roof insulation are actually pretty good. Except for all the windows.


My toilet was replaced a few years ago. I found that the labourers had left a sizeable gap where the drain was that lead to downstairs. I was wondering why the winters were colder than usual for that room until I discovered the gap a few months back.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by walker on Jul 16th, 2022 at 6:22pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 16th, 2022 at 4:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 16th, 2022 at 4:11pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 16th, 2022 at 4:02pm:
When you live in a country like Australia where 9 months of the year the temperature is anywhere from warm to hot weather, you could probably forgive the builders for making homes feel as cool as possible. In a month's time, I will be opening up the windows and curtains to let the cool spring air into the house. I only need to close up the house for 2 or 3 months of the year during the winter. And I only need to put a heater on in the bedroom for a few hours of the night to sleep comfortably. The rest of the year, sometimes I cannot keep the house cool enough.



But you don't live in cold, damp, dark Melbourne.
It chills you to the bones in winter.


We had this topic done about how to keep your house warm in the winter, about a month ago. This year, I covered the windows with towels and blankets. I must have made the house 5 degrees warmer than usual. I still use tea light candles for the toilet room -- the coldest room in the house because of its lack of closeable louvres.

And it was only just over a week ago when we had wet weather that made outside nighttime temperatures a few degrees colder than usual. So, the blankets and towels over the windows made the warmth effective.

How many candles do you burn because they don't have many BTU's.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 17th, 2022 at 12:58am

Johnnie wrote on Jul 16th, 2022 at 6:22pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 16th, 2022 at 4:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 16th, 2022 at 4:11pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 16th, 2022 at 4:02pm:
When you live in a country like Australia where 9 months of the year the temperature is anywhere from warm to hot weather, you could probably forgive the builders for making homes feel as cool as possible. In a month's time, I will be opening up the windows and curtains to let the cool spring air into the house. I only need to close up the house for 2 or 3 months of the year during the winter. And I only need to put a heater on in the bedroom for a few hours of the night to sleep comfortably. The rest of the year, sometimes I cannot keep the house cool enough.



But you don't live in cold, damp, dark Melbourne.
It chills you to the bones in winter.


We had this topic done about how to keep your house warm in the winter, about a month ago. This year, I covered the windows with towels and blankets. I must have made the house 5 degrees warmer than usual. I still use tea light candles for the toilet room -- the coldest room in the house because of its lack of closeable louvres.

And it was only just over a week ago when we had wet weather that made outside nighttime temperatures a few degrees colder than usual. So, the blankets and towels over the windows made the warmth effective.

How many candles do you burn because they don't have many BTU's.


About 5 tea light candles (citronella) that last about 4 hours each. The other candles last up to 8 hours each. They are effective enough that the toilet room is kept much warmer than usual. I may decide not to bother with using them next year.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:08am
Reason why I cannot easily open or close my front door.
Door1.jpg (98 KB | 13 )

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:10am
Crack in the wall from the sloping. Can only conclude that I need to take a sledgehammer to some of the support posts downstairs and knock them back into place.
Door2.jpg (101 KB | 10 )

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by Marla on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:30am
Wow! Surmising I am looking at Australian door entry ways. No longer have any will left to live. I've seen everything now.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:36am

Marla wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:30am:
Wow! Surmising I am looking at Australian door entry ways. No longer have any will left to live. I've seen everything now.


That is a couple of photos of my front door that I took about an hour ago. People think I should move, have the house knocked down, and rebuilt with a 2020 standard house.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by Marla on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:40am
Have you looked for a home in Can-A-Berra?

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:56am
I doubt that I want to move to a larger version of Rockhampton.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by Marla on Jul 17th, 2022 at 3:24am
Okay, I have no idea what that means.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by Bobby. on Jul 17th, 2022 at 7:22am

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:10am:
Crack in the wall from the sloping. Can only conclude that I need to take a sledgehammer to some of the support posts downstairs and knock them back into place.


You live in a dump.
It looks like a crack house in Detroit.   :o



Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by AusGeoff on Jul 17th, 2022 at 8:20am

Bobby. wrote on Jul 16th, 2022 at 2:51pm:
It's too cold where I live -
there is no gas for heating - only a reverse cycle aircon.
I sometimes sit with a blanket around me.   :o


A correctly functioning reverse cycle a/c should heat three connected
average-sized rooms okay.  Have you cleaned its filters recently?

We have two a/c's, one for the front of the house and one for the rear.
We use a little 2,400W fan heater in the bathroom at shower times.



Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by AusGeoff on Jul 17th, 2022 at 8:29am

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:10am:
Crack in the wall from the sloping. Can only conclude that I need to take a sledgehammer to some of the support posts downstairs and knock them back into place.


Those two images represent a subsidence in the house's foundations
if it's solid brick, or it needs re-stumping if it's timber-framed.  If it's a
"typical" Queenslander, then you're gonna need some serious hydraulic
jacking in order to replace the pads under the  timber posts.

If you were considering that though, I'd be replacing the timber with
steel RHS columns on concrete pads. 

Whatever, you're gonna be looking at serious dollars mate.



Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by John Smith on Jul 17th, 2022 at 9:44am

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:36am:

Marla wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:30am:
Wow! Surmising I am looking at Australian door entry ways. No longer have any will left to live. I've seen everything now.


That is a couple of photos of my front door that I took about an hour ago. People think I should move, have the house knocked down, and rebuilt with a 2020 standard house.



you just need to prop up the piers so as to level the house again. Once you do that the doors will square themselves off

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by Sir Spot of Borg on Jul 17th, 2022 at 9:45am

AusGeoff wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 8:20am:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 16th, 2022 at 2:51pm:
It's too cold where I live -
there is no gas for heating - only a reverse cycle aircon.
I sometimes sit with a blanket around me.   :o


A correctly functioning reverse cycle a/c should heat three connected
average-sized rooms okay.  Have you cleaned its filters recently?

We have two a/c's, one for the front of the house and one for the rear.
We use a little 2,400W fan heater in the bathroom at shower times.


The ones they have in canberra turn themselves off if the temp outside gets too cold. Argued with the technician about that one. Whats the point?

Spot

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by freediver on Jul 17th, 2022 at 10:54am
When they are heating the house, the outside element is cooling the air. If the difference in temperature is too high, it may become ineffective. You also run the risk of icing up the outside elements, or maybe even the refrigerant freezing.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:30pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 9:44am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:36am:

Marla wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:30am:
Wow! Surmising I am looking at Australian door entry ways. No longer have any will left to live. I've seen everything now.


That is a couple of photos of my front door that I took about an hour ago. People think I should move, have the house knocked down, and rebuilt with a 2020 standard house.



you just need to prop up the piers so as to level the house again. Once you do that the doors will square themselves off


I am going to get the sledgehammer and give the stumps a few good hits to knock them back a little more verticle.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by John Smith on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:32pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:30pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 9:44am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:36am:

Marla wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:30am:
Wow! Surmising I am looking at Australian door entry ways. No longer have any will left to live. I've seen everything now.


That is a couple of photos of my front door that I took about an hour ago. People think I should move, have the house knocked down, and rebuilt with a 2020 standard house.



you just need to prop up the piers so as to level the house again. Once you do that the doors will square themselves off


I am going to get the sledgehammer and give the stumps a few good hits to knock them back a little more verticle.



You're likely to cause the house to collapse onto you.  :D :D

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:36pm

freediver wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 10:54am:
When they are heating the house, the outside element is cooling the air. If the difference in temperature is too high, it may become ineffective. You also run the risk of icing up the outside elements, or maybe even the refrigerant freezing.


The warmth from a house will ward off the outside cold from penetrating the house. If you get the house as warm as 20 degrees inside, a 5-degree night will not be affected by a heater system blowing out cool air.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:39pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:32pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:30pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 9:44am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:36am:

Marla wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:30am:
Wow! Surmising I am looking at Australian door entry ways. No longer have any will left to live. I've seen everything now.


That is a couple of photos of my front door that I took about an hour ago. People think I should move, have the house knocked down, and rebuilt with a 2020 standard house.



you just need to prop up the piers so as to level the house again. Once you do that the doors will square themselves off


I am going to get the sledgehammer and give the stumps a few good hits to knock them back a little more verticle.



You're likely to cause the house to collapse onto you.  :D :D


That was actually my thought of the consequences as I was typing the last reply to you. The likelihood that I won't know how hard to hit the stump that I actually knock down a stump under the house and cause the floor to droop. Mum had to replace a wooden stump with a metal stump, after the wooden stump fell over a couple years ago.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:44pm

whiteknight wrote on Jul 16th, 2022 at 2:24pm:
Australian homes are so cold that some are falling below the WHO's recommended 'safe' temperature
ABC News
15 Jul 2022

Amity and Micky love their rented Sydney home, except for the chilly temperatures during winter.   :(



In Amity and Mickie's rental home in Sydney, there's a room connected to the main living space by a doorway that has no door.

A note stuck to the wall reveals the family's pet name for this room: "Antarctica".



Patricia Karvelas stands next to windows, smiling at the camera.

"It's got a ceiling that's just plastic sheeting and no insulation," Mickie tells ABC RN Breakfast.

"It's absolutely freezing."   :( 

Mickie has wedged a rod above the doorway and draped a heavy curtain to try to halt the cold air wafting in, but it's not having much of an impact.

It's just one of the small modifications the family has made as they shiver through a second winter in a house they otherwise love.

And the conditions are taking a toll.

"I feel like the cold really impacts my mental health, probably more than my physical health," Amity says.

"I find it just really affects my mood, being cold."

Despite this, the family hasn't asked for any changes to the property to fix the problem because they don't want to put their landlord offside and risk eviction.

Amity looks out into the room she often refers to as 'Antarctica'. Condensation forms on the window from her breath.

But they are taking part in a national project, run by community organisation Better Renting, which is investigating just how cold Australian homes get. Their rental is one of 70 sites that has been monitored through winter for about seven weeks.

The project organisers gave the renters temperature monitoring devices to test how often their homes were below 18 degrees Celsius. This is the recommendation set by the World Health Organization for a "safe and well-balanced" indoor temperature for a home during winter.

Results so far are concerning.

For example, one night Amity put on three heaters at once, in one part of the house, to see how much she could warm it up.

She only got the temperature to 17C.

Not built for winter
Other tenants taking part in the temperature monitoring project are also struggling to heat their homes to the recommended level, according to Joel Dignam, the founder and executive director of Better Renting.

"Even in some relatively warmer parts of Australia, the average temperatures are still really low. So in New South Wales and Victoria, the average temperature in the rental properties we're tracking is still below 18C," Mr Dignam says. 

Australian houses so cold they're making people sick
As much of the country shivers through winter, how cold does your house get? Early findings from a new survey given to RN Breakfast suggest Australian properties are falling far below the international benchmark for healthy temperatures.   :(


Temperature trackers give Better Renting round-the-clock data from the 70 sites as parts of the county endure an unusually cold winter.

In the first fortnight, the data showed the homes were below 18C for 70 per cent of the time.

The coldest temperature recorded so far was 1C, logged by a participant living in their car in Hobart.

Those with a roof over their head have logged temperatures as low as 6C.

Emma Baker, who heads up the Housing and Healthy Cities Research Group at the University of Adelaide, says the data collected by Better Renting is concerning but not surprising.

It matches a 2019 study she was part of that looked at 35 homes in South Australia. None of them reached 18C in winter.

"Power used to be really cheap so Australian houses were basically designed as winter tents that you could pump a whole lot of energy into during winter and warm them up," Professor Baker says.

But that's no longer an option for many renters as power bills soar.

Researchers are also showing greater interest in the links between cold homes and health.

A little computer in the bedroom reads a temperature of 14 degrees.
The temperature in one of the bedrooms was a chilly 14C at 9am on a Sydney winter's morning.
"We know that cold housing affects people's blood pressure and their risk of cardiovascular disease, and obviously respiratory disease," Professor Baker says.

"But the really interesting thing that's been coming up lately is mental health.

"Mental health seems to be the canary in the mine, the thing that is affected first by having cold housing."

Participants in the Better Renting project have been asked about the impact their homes' temperature is having on their health and wellbeing. Ten of the 56 who responded mentioned mental health issues related to their home temperature.


That's the free market in all its horror for you....builders aren't required to properly insulate homes, because that would make houses "unaffordable"...but houses are already unaffordable, AND builders are still going broke. 

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by John Smith on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:49pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:39pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:32pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:30pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 9:44am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:36am:

Marla wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:30am:
Wow! Surmising I am looking at Australian door entry ways. No longer have any will left to live. I've seen everything now.


That is a couple of photos of my front door that I took about an hour ago. People think I should move, have the house knocked down, and rebuilt with a 2020 standard house.



you just need to prop up the piers so as to level the house again. Once you do that the doors will square themselves off


I am going to get the sledgehammer and give the stumps a few good hits to knock them back a little more verticle.



You're likely to cause the house to collapse onto you.  :D :D


That was actually my thought of the consequences as I was typing the last reply to you. The likelihood that I won't know how hard to hit the stump that I actually knock down a stump under the house and cause the floor to droop. Mum had to replace a wooden stump with a metal stump, after the wooden stump fell over a couple years ago.



you need to prop up the area with temporary supports, remove the pier and then re do it. Dig a hole down to at least 600mm and then fill it with concrete ... once that dries you can rebuild the pier on top of it. If you don't want to rebuild with bricks use a metal post. Just make sure it's the right size to support the weight.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:56pm
That's the free market in all its horror for you....builders aren't required to properly insulate homes, because that would make houses "unaffordable"...but houses are already unaffordable, AND builders are still going broke.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 17th, 2022 at 2:04pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:49pm:
you need to prop up the area with temporary supports, remove the pier and then re do it. Dig a hole down to at least 600mm and then fill it with concrete ... once that dries you can rebuild the pier on top of it. If you don't want to rebuild with bricks use a metal post. Just make sure it's the right size to support the weight.


Or, I find which of the posts are slightly off centre and need a whack sufficient enough that it moves a cm or 2 back to its original positioning to help square up the doors to its frame. Then I can adjust the temporary (adjustable) support posts into a better position.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by Bobby. on Jul 17th, 2022 at 2:07pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:56pm:
That's the free market in all its horror for you....builders aren't required to properly insulate homes, because that would make houses "unaffordable"...but houses are already unaffordable, AND builders are still going broke.



There are some regulations that refer to insulation requirements.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by John Smith on Jul 17th, 2022 at 3:25pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:56pm:
.builders aren't required to properly insulate homes, because that would make houses "unaffordable"...but houses are already unaffordable, AND builders are still going broke



builders will build it however you want them to. You just have to pay for it.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by freediver on Jul 17th, 2022 at 5:40pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 3:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:56pm:
.builders aren't required to properly insulate homes, because that would make houses "unaffordable"...but houses are already unaffordable, AND builders are still going broke



builders will build it however you want them to. You just have to pay for it.


There are many things they are simply not allowed to do. They have to meet minimum requirements for things like noise and thermal insulation. There are all sorts of regulations that decrease flexibility in housing design. It's actually incredibly complicated (= expensive) to comply with them all.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 17th, 2022 at 6:04pm
.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 17th, 2022 at 6:12pm

freediver wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 5:40pm:
There are many things they are simply not allowed to do.


And many things they should do but don't, like proper -as opposed to "minimum" insulation. 

Speaking of expenses in building houses,  the other market failure is cost of energy in Oz, with vast supplies of gas being exported for profit, instead of  benefiting  local consumers.

Hence we are freezing in our homes this winter.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by freediver on Jul 17th, 2022 at 6:14pm

Quote:
And many things they should do but don't, like proper -as opposed to "minimum" insulation.


If you are paying for the house, you can get whatever you want.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by issuevoter on Jul 18th, 2022 at 8:32am
The post is using "home" in the way real estate agents do, which is a sleazy advertising ploy. Home is only created by the occupants. Its not the home that is cold, its the house. Cheap construction is the reason, and has been a fixation with Australians since the Great Depression. Spend as little as possible, even if you could afford more. All you need is some fibro and coupla sheetsa tin. And a pair of  worn-out tire swans for gate posts.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 18th, 2022 at 2:53pm

freediver wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 6:14pm:

Quote:
And many things they should do but don't, like proper -as opposed to "minimum" insulation.


If you are paying for the house, you can get whatever you want.


Obvious madness - like anti-fascists are insane.

"If you are paying" means you have to be able to afford to pay.  Most Ozzies are paying way beyond what they can afford, even if good insulation standards are not required by regulation, as they should be. 



Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by aquascoot on Jul 18th, 2022 at 2:57pm
white knight

either get used to cold showers or burn some coal

your choice

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 18th, 2022 at 3:09pm

aquascoot wrote on Jul 18th, 2022 at 2:57pm:
white knight

either get used to cold showers or burn some coal

your choice


Er...Oz homes don't have coal burners....

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by aquascoot on Jul 18th, 2022 at 3:35pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 18th, 2022 at 3:09pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 18th, 2022 at 2:57pm:
white knight

either get used to cold showers or burn some coal

your choice


Er...Oz homes don't have coal burners....



burn some coal in a power station and then run your heater.

or build wind and solar and have a cold shower every night

white knight will be blue shiverring knight

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by John Smith on Jul 18th, 2022 at 3:42pm

aquascoot wrote on Jul 18th, 2022 at 3:35pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 18th, 2022 at 3:09pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 18th, 2022 at 2:57pm:
white knight

either get used to cold showers or burn some coal

your choice


Er...Oz homes don't have coal burners....



burn some coal in a power station and then run your heater.

or build wind and solar and have a cold shower every night

white knight will be blue shiverring knight



you're describing exactly what happens now :D :D

what makes you think repeating the same thing will end with a different result?

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by Jake Winker Frogen on Jul 18th, 2022 at 5:35pm
Mine is not.

WA double brick.

Like an oven when you let the sun come in the windows and then close the blinds and save the warmth.


Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 18th, 2022 at 7:09pm

Jake Winker Frogen wrote on Jul 18th, 2022 at 5:35pm:
Mine is not.

WA double brick.

Like an oven when you let the sun come in the windows and then close the blinds and save the warmth.


Interestingly, so far this July, Perth av. max temps are  two degrees higher than normal at 19.2C), and av. min. temps are  one degree lower than normal, wheres Oz south east is lower than normal on both counts; eg  half a degree lower than normal (14.6  max. and 6.6 min.) in Adelaide, (BOM figures).

So you don't have to burn so much coal in the West (or gas) - aquascoot's  suggestion.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by freediver on Jul 18th, 2022 at 7:18pm

issuevoter wrote on Jul 18th, 2022 at 8:32am:
The post is using "home" in the way real estate agents do, which is a sleazy advertising ploy. Home is only created by the occupants. Its not the home that is cold, its the house. Cheap construction is the reason, and has been a fixation with Australians since the Great Depression. Spend as little as possible, even if you could afford more. All you need is some fibro and coupla sheetsa tin. And a pair of  worn-out tire swans for gate posts.


Most new Australian homes are absurdly oversized. And they just keep getting bigger. Compared to what people expected a generation ago it is luxury.


Quote:
"If you are paying" means you have to be able to afford to pay.  Most Ozzies are paying way beyond what they can afford


If you cannot afford it, don't buy it. It really is that simple. But if you are the one holding the money, all of the decisions are entirely yours. Fine by me if you want the cheapest options, but don't blame society when you get the cheapest options.

And yes, antifa are insane.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 18th, 2022 at 11:40pm

freediver wrote on Jul 18th, 2022 at 7:18pm:
And yes, antifa are insane.


Driven 'insane' by the 'violence of the state' committed  to maintaining a false dogma of "economic freedom", violence which is visited upon the least advantaged among us, who are often attacked by the state's "fascist police force" when these same disadvantaged dare to protest their circumstances, or indeed fight among themselves.   

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by Ye Grappler on Jul 19th, 2022 at 12:51am
Mine's fine.... just finished the back wall the former owner didn't do, and insulated it well... Bewdiful for the second shower and toilet etc...

Experience building a home to be insulated etc says it can be done and not that costly.  Ya just godda bend yer back there, Pilgrim, an' do it fer yu'self!

When someone quotes $3k for the simple wall out there that I have the materials for - I can do it with the materials and do it better for $0k.

It just takes tha guts fo' a man ta get out an' DO it, Pilgrim..... an' none a' that horseshit about seventy three is too old.... ya godda keep up, kids.... modern generation.... ain't worth nuthin' ....

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by Ye Grappler on Jul 19th, 2022 at 1:03am

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 18th, 2022 at 11:40pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 18th, 2022 at 7:18pm:
And yes, antifa are insane.


Driven 'insane' by the 'violence of the state' committed  to maintaining a false dogma of "economic freedom", violence which is visited upon the least advantaged among us, who are often attacked by the state's "fascist police force" when these same disadvantaged dare to protest their circumstances, or indeed fight among themselves.   



I kind of get the idea you're wrong there, Pilgrim.... the 'state' and its' fascist police force' don't attack ratbags that march for 'rights' and such - they generally allow them to do it in peace..... are you saying that the disadvantaged way out beyond the pale and without prospect of jobs, and who prefer to live that way, and carry on a lot with drugs and such - are unfairly targeted when they assault and smash and carry on?

Where you bin, Laden?  You reckon all those Mussos who get into organised crime and shootings and such in the streets are 'disadvantaged'?  They've got more money than you can ever dream about.

Do you think that Aboriginals in remote areas are disadvantaged?  Leaving out their personal choice to live there - their supplies are trucked or flown in, they have government lackeys to provide them with cars and such (HTF else would they get them?), they get the same or more dole as anyone else, and have no overhead costs such as housing - provided for them in most cases - and no costs of going to work etc - HOW are they disadvantaged compared to some poor orphan kid** in the city?

If they were left to 'do things their way' - they'd be out chasing down a meal instead of sitting around chasing down a wine cask with a beer or twenty .....

So what is the answer?  Control their money so they don't waste it but spend it on essentials?  Been tried...... heavily criticised.........

HOW are some disadvantaged over others?  Dare one ask?  They have choices ..... the question is when will they use them?


** Hey - that was me once...... after a childhood of abuse, abandonment and neglect...... you can call me Colonel.....

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by freediver on Jul 19th, 2022 at 5:47am

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 18th, 2022 at 11:40pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 18th, 2022 at 7:18pm:
And yes, antifa are insane.


Driven 'insane' by the 'violence of the state' committed  to maintaining a false dogma of "economic freedom", violence which is visited upon the least advantaged among us, who are often attacked by the state's "fascist police force" when these same disadvantaged dare to protest their circumstances, or indeed fight among themselves.   


Yeah nah. They are just fruitloops. Incapable of reason or perspective.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 19th, 2022 at 3:53pm

freediver wrote on Jul 19th, 2022 at 5:47am:
Yeah nah. They are just fruitloops. Incapable of reason or perspective.


Like the Paris mob who stormed Versailles Palace in 1789?

Fast forward to today; chronic financial insecurity remains as debilitating as ever:

"Floyd had been arrested on suspicion of using a counterfeit $20 bill." before he was murdered by police.   

"Reason and perspective"...indeed...   

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by Ye Grappler on Jul 19th, 2022 at 11:06pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19th, 2022 at 3:53pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 19th, 2022 at 5:47am:
Yeah nah. They are just fruitloops. Incapable of reason or perspective.


Like the Paris mob who stormed Versailles Palace in 1789?

Fast forward to today; chronic financial insecurity remains as debilitating as ever:

"Floyd had been arrested on suspicion of using a counterfeit $20 bill." before he was murdered by police.   

"Reason and perspective"...indeed...   


So .... errrr... how does that prove that 'chronic financial insecurity' is the exclusive domain of Blacks and other self-proclaimed groups who wish to play identity politics?

The mob of 1789 were the common folk - not some special interest, divisionist, self-isolating,  self-indulgent, self-perpetuating problems group.....

If what you say has any validity - poor Whites would rise up as well and pass counterfeit notes....

Why and how do you equate one person's choice to be criminal with a popular uprising?  Does that mean that all the current Aboriginal crimes - you know, stolen cars ramming police cars and stations, attacking one another with spears and knives and guns if they had them - posted times many, are a popular uprising?  Why then do not all the 'disadvantaged' groups join in?

Why is this criminal behaviour restricted to one group?

I think you're barking your shins on the wrong tree, there, Pilgrim.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by Marla on Jul 20th, 2022 at 12:26am

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 17th, 2022 at 1:36pm:
The warmth from a house will ward off the outside cold from penetrating the house. If you get the house as warm as 20 degrees inside, a 5-degree night will not be affected by a heater system blowing out cool air.


Post of the year.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 20th, 2022 at 12:27am

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jul 19th, 2022 at 11:06pm:
So .... errrr... how does that prove that 'chronic financial insecurity' is the exclusive domain of Blacks and other self-proclaimed groups who wish to play identity politics?


It isn't and it doesn't; what is true is that poor people - in highly unequal societies - experience chronic financial insecurity at rates far exceeding the non-poor section of the population.


Quote:
The mob of 1789 were the common folk - not some special interest, divisionist, self-isolating,  self-indulgent, self-perpetuating problems group.....


The common folk were chronically poor and unable to pay for bread in 1789 (in France).  Get it?


Quote:
If what you say has any validity - poor Whites would rise up as well and pass counterfeit notes....


I'm sure whites pass counterfeit notes as well ...but Floyd was an unlucky black man in America....where racism - and fascism - is lurking in the police forces.....


Quote:
Why and how do you equate one person's choice to be criminal with a popular uprising? 


The point is: chronic financial stress is ONE underlying cause of criminality, whether expressed in a popular uprising, or in solo criminality of the type referred to by Trump when he noted:"you (ie blacks) are living in poverty, your neighborhoods are like war zones, etc).


Quote:
Does that mean that all the current Aboriginal crimes - you know, stolen cars ramming police cars and stations, attacking one another with spears and knives and guns if they had them - posted times many, are a popular uprising?[/quote]

It's certainly criminality among the dispossessed, if not a popular uprising. 

[quote]Why then do not all the 'disadvantaged' groups join in?


Because poor whites - given their smaller numbers relative to the population  -  tend not to form groups united by dispossession.


Quote:
Why is this criminal behaviour restricted to one group?


Omit the word "this"...criminal behaviour is NOT restricted to one group.


Quote:
I think you're barking your shins on the wrong tree, there, Pilgrim.


Well, I answered all five of your questions, along with other comments, so maybe you need to rethink some...

(And this debate should move back to 'antifa' or 'CRT'...)

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by AusGeoff on Jul 20th, 2022 at 5:00am
Australian homes are simply not designed for a hot climate either,
and contribute in a major way why so much coal-generated electricity
is used to run air-conditioners for 12 hours a day in summer.  They're
just as hot in summer as they're cold in winter, but higher standards
of insulation in walls and roof spaces could alleviate both, as warm air
migrates to cooler air regions.

Currently for the Victorian climate the recommended total R (up + down)
value for house insulation is R=2.5, with a minimum requirement of R=1.5. 
I'd go higher than that to (say) R=4 or even R=5.

Corporate builders of course will invariably claim R=1.5 is perfectly okay,
but in a climate with hot, dry summers like much of the south-eastern
Australian region, this is bullshit.   



And of course, all states need to prohibit black and/or dark grey concrete
roof tiles on new houses, which form a perfect heat soak in summer and
work against any cooling air-conditioning after sunset.

Note too in this Sydney image the lack of green space and established tree
canopy.  The ratio of green to black is untenable—from a heat island perspective.



Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by freediver on Jul 20th, 2022 at 5:26am

Quote:
Note too in this Sydney image the lack of green space and established tree
canopy.


Is that because it is new?

I have also found the new style of house on a slab works well in summer too. You just have to work the windows properly.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by John Smith on Jul 20th, 2022 at 11:49am

freediver wrote on Jul 20th, 2022 at 5:26am:
I have also found the new style of house on a slab works well in summer too. You just have to work the windows properly.



the biggest single problem with new houses is the lack of eaves. . Trying to fit the biggest house on the smallest block doesn't leave a lot of room for decent eaves. I've got 800mm eaves all around my place and it's much cooler in summer than any other house I've ever owned. And because the sum is lower in winter, I get more direct sunlight in my bedrooms in winter than I do summer.

Those old timers knew what they were doing in the pre air con days when many houses were built with wrap around verandahs

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by Ye Grappler on Jul 20th, 2022 at 12:37pm
Jeez - old timers can do things right .....

;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D                                                    ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D                                                       ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 20th, 2022 at 1:40pm
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-19/aemo-warning-of-possible-gas-shortage-in-victoria/101249632

Energy market operator, AEMO, intervenes as Victoria's gas reserves fall
Posted Yesterday at 10:34am, updated 16h ago


Seeking higher spot prices for gas on overseas markets.

Gas profit-seeking price-gougers should be nationalized...


Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by John Smith on Jul 20th, 2022 at 3:59pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jul 20th, 2022 at 12:37pm:
Jeez - old timers can do things right .....

;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D                                                    ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D                                                       ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D



you're not an old timer you're an old fool

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by Ye Grappler on Jul 20th, 2022 at 4:03pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 20th, 2022 at 3:59pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jul 20th, 2022 at 12:37pm:
Jeez - old timers can do things right .....

;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D                                                    ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D                                                       ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D



you're not an old timer you're an old fool



A laugh a minute you lot.... one idiotic comment piled on another... don't let the door bite you on your way out, Smith.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by freediver on Jul 20th, 2022 at 4:46pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 20th, 2022 at 11:49am:

freediver wrote on Jul 20th, 2022 at 5:26am:
I have also found the new style of house on a slab works well in summer too. You just have to work the windows properly.



the biggest single problem with new houses is the lack of eaves. . Trying to fit the biggest house on the smallest block doesn't leave a lot of room for decent eaves. I've got 800mm eaves all around my place and it's much cooler in summer than any other house I've ever owned. And because the sum is lower in winter, I get more direct sunlight in my bedrooms in winter than I do summer.

Those old timers knew what they were doing in the pre air con days when many houses were built with wrap around verandahs


Trees work better.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by John Smith on Jul 20th, 2022 at 5:26pm

freediver wrote on Jul 20th, 2022 at 4:46pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 20th, 2022 at 11:49am:

freediver wrote on Jul 20th, 2022 at 5:26am:
I have also found the new style of house on a slab works well in summer too. You just have to work the windows properly.



the biggest single problem with new houses is the lack of eaves. . Trying to fit the biggest house on the smallest block doesn't leave a lot of room for decent eaves. I've got 800mm eaves all around my place and it's much cooler in summer than any other house I've ever owned. And because the sum is lower in winter, I get more direct sunlight in my bedrooms in winter than I do summer.

Those old timers knew what they were doing in the pre air con days when many houses were built with wrap around verandahs


Trees work better.



they don't do well with my gutters or water pipes

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by freediver on Jul 20th, 2022 at 5:33pm
Just prune them to the right height.

Title: Re: Australian Homes Are So Cold
Post by John Smith on Jul 20th, 2022 at 6:19pm

freediver wrote on Jul 20th, 2022 at 5:33pm:
Just prune them to the right height.


Eaves work better for me. I've been in houses with trees surrounding them. None were as cool in summer as my current house.

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