Link.

With so much hanging over his head, he ought to have had the common sense to decline.

Idiot.

Aussie wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 4:32pm:

Link. With so much hanging over his head, he ought to have had the common sense to decline. Idiot.

He is not on trial, bozo. He is a decorated war hero, far more courageous and exemplary than you. A VC is a big deal and the invitation is a great honour.
Just because he is defamed - and the case is still undecided - he should not give in to the baying mob mentality you are a voice of.

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:04pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 4:32pm: Link. With so much hanging over his head, he ought to have had the common sense to decline. Idiot. He is not on trial, bozo. He is a decorated war hero, far more courageous and exemplary than you. A VC is a big deal and the invitation is a great honour. Just because he is defamed - and the case is still undecided - he should not give in to the baying mob mentality you are a voice of.

Like I said...with all the schit hanging over his head...he ought to have politely declined.  You know...if Albo has serious allegations like cold blooded murder raised against him, he would appropriately step aside until the allegations were sorted.  You'd expect that, I'm sure.

Aussie wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 4:32pm:

Link. With so much hanging over his head, he ought to have had the common sense to decline. Idiot.

Aussie! He's INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY ... yeah?

1. A soldier is a trained killer <--- harsh reality which people find too brutal to accept.

2. A police officer enforces the law.

He's a soldier not a police officer!

YES. Andrew is innocent. Elizabeth did nuthin'. Charles is your friend. No need to curtsy.

Aussie wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:23pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:04pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 4:32pm: Link. With so much hanging over his head, he ought to have had the common sense to decline. Idiot. He is not on trial, bozo. He is a decorated war hero, far more courageous and exemplary than you. A VC is a big deal and the invitation is a great honour. Just because he is defamed - and the case is still undecided - he should not give in to the baying mob mentality you are a voice of. Like I said...with all the schit hanging over his head...he ought to have politely declined.  You know...if Albo has serious allegations like cold blooded murder raised against him, he would appropriately step aside until the allegations were sorted.  You'd expect that, I'm sure.

That's the gweggy turd approach to life and personal conduct - throw allegations around and repeat them tirelessly.

No, actually I would not expect Albo to stand aside just because of unsubstantiated, anonymous allegations in a newspaper. Anyone can make anonymous, unsubstantiated allegations, setting in motion a process which is itself the punishment, regardless of the outcome. 

It is not 'cold blooded murder' to kill the enemy you are sent to kill.

Aussie wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:23pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:04pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 4:32pm: Link. With so much hanging over his head, he ought to have had the common sense to decline. Idiot. He is not on trial, bozo. He is a decorated war hero, far more courageous and exemplary than you. A VC is a big deal and the invitation is a great honour. Just because he is defamed - and the case is still undecided - he should not give in to the baying mob mentality you are a voice of. Like I said...with all the schit hanging over his head...he ought to have politely declined.  You know...if Albo has serious allegations like cold blooded murder raised against him, he would appropriately step aside until the allegations were sorted.  You'd expect that, I'm sure.

What schit?
In battle there are no laws.
Wake up stupid.

There has been something wrong with this appointment from the beginning.

Pretty-boy steroid taking freak.  He has debased the medal.

I mean what the faarking hell is this about?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/69/aa/ed69aa5fdbbb4e869aec2a215b5fac99.jpg

random wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:43pm:

There has been something wrong with this appointment from the beginning. Pretty-boy steroid taking freak.  He has debased the medal. I mean what the faarking hell is this about? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/69/aa/ed69aa5fdbbb4e869aec2a215b5fac99.jpg

That ain't roids you moron. ;D ;D ;D
That bloke is the reason you sit here schit canning him.
Funny that hey...

Frank, the allegations against BRS are not unsubstantiated....by a very long shot.

At the moment, the 'jury is out' and we are all waiting for that Judge to reach a decision.

Any person with any sense of occasion, timing and decency would be far less tone deaf to what is happening.

This bloke is quite literally a Judge's reserved decision away from being declared, on the balance of probability, a cold blooded murderer.

Captain Caveman wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:43pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:23pm: Frank wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:04pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 4:32pm: Link. With so much hanging over his head, he ought to have had the common sense to decline. Idiot. He is not on trial, bozo. He is a decorated war hero, far more courageous and exemplary than you. A VC is a big deal and the invitation is a great honour. Just because he is defamed - and the case is still undecided - he should not give in to the baying mob mentality you are a voice of. Like I said...with all the schit hanging over his head...he ought to have politely declined.  You know...if Albo has serious allegations like cold blooded murder raised against him, he would appropriately step aside until the allegations were sorted.  You'd expect that, I'm sure. What schit? In battle there are no laws. Wake up stupid.

Pretty much spot on.

In war you shoot to kill OR YOU will be killed.

1. A soldier is a trained killer <--- harsh reality which people find too brutal to accept.

2. A police officer enforces the law.

The guy is a trained killer not a police officer.

Aussie wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:47pm:

Frank, the allegations against BRS are not unsubstantiated....by a very long shot. At the moment, the 'jury is out' and we are all waiting for that Judge to reach a decision. Any person with any sense of occasion, timing and decency would be far less tone deaf to what is happening. This bloke is quite literally a Judge's reserved decision away from being declared, on the balance of probability, a cold blooded murderer.

What bloody lawyer are you Aussie?

The burden of proof for such criminal matters is beyond a reasonable doubt NOT on the balance of probabilities. 😳

Quote:

It is not 'cold blooded murder' to kill the enemy you are sent to kill.

I'd be inclined to trust Roberts-Smith VC judgement, in that 'theatre of war', Afghanistan.

We, all Australians, asked him and others, to go there, and to fight a dirty, ill defined war.

'Afghanistan', was still essentially warfare,
....except that in Afghanistan, the enemy were not openly 'declaring themselves', and they were not wearing any recognisable uniform.

And yet, the enemy in Afghanistan, still managed to inflict many casualties upon the coalition forces.



Roberts-Smith VC,   .....i hope that he is acquitted.

Any other verdict would be a 'win' for the ISLAMISTS everywhere, imo.

Aussie wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 4:32pm:

Link. With so much hanging over his head, he ought to have had the common sense to decline. Idiot.

Why? because gutless softcocks like you want the book thrown at him on the evidence of softcocks like you who couldn't do their jobs & didn't like being told what to do?

Then there's the pissy ADF hierarchy that just threw him under the bus for expediency to save their arses from any responsibility.

chimera wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:29pm:

YES. Andrew is innocent. Elizabeth did nuthin'. Charles is your friend. No need to curtsy.

Phark off Numpty Cnut

random wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:43pm:

There has been something wrong with this appointment from the beginning. Pretty-boy steroid taking freak.  He has debased the medal. I mean what the faarking hell is this about? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/69/aa/ed69aa5fdbbb4e869aec2a215b5fac99.jpg

FFS! He's NOT JUST a soldier! He's SAS. You do know that Australia's SAS are the best in the world...yeah?

And see how fit he is? He HAS to be fit. SUPER FIT in fact!

random wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:43pm:

There has been something wrong with this appointment from the beginning. Pretty-boy steroid taking freak.  He has debased the medal. I mean what the faarking hell is this about? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/69/aa/ed69aa5fdbbb4e869aec2a215b5fac99.jpg

What the farrk are you about you weak arsed cockroll?

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:53pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:47pm: Frank, the allegations against BRS are not unsubstantiated....by a very long shot. At the moment, the 'jury is out' and we are all waiting for that Judge to reach a decision. Any person with any sense of occasion, timing and decency would be far less tone deaf to what is happening. This bloke is quite literally a Judge's reserved decision away from being declared, on the balance of probability, a cold blooded murderer. What bloody lawyer are you Aussie? The burden of proof for such criminal matters is beyond a reasonable doubt NOT on the balance of probabilities. 😳

No schit, Sherlock.  Now, tell me what the burden of proof is in civil litigation.

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:48pm:

Captain Caveman wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:43pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:23pm: Frank wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:04pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 4:32pm: Link. With so much hanging over his head, he ought to have had the common sense to decline. Idiot. He is not on trial, bozo. He is a decorated war hero, far more courageous and exemplary than you. A VC is a big deal and the invitation is a great honour. Just because he is defamed - and the case is still undecided - he should not give in to the baying mob mentality you are a voice of. Like I said...with all the schit hanging over his head...he ought to have politely declined.  You know...if Albo has serious allegations like cold blooded murder raised against him, he would appropriately step aside until the allegations were sorted.  You'd expect that, I'm sure. What schit? In battle there are no laws. Wake up stupid. Pretty much spot on. In war you shoot to kill OR YOU will be killed. 1. A soldier is a trained killer <--- harsh reality which people find too brutal to accept. 2. A police officer enforces the law. The guy is a trained killer not a police officer.

You train someone to kill, then when they do what you expected of them, let the lawyers loose on them.


Better idea.
If lawyers want a slice of a soldier then they get their chance in the soldiers environment.
Arm them with their weapon of choice and send them in.
Air it live on TV so future grubby schit carent lawyers get the message.
Guaranteed to be the no.1 viewed TV show in history.

Gnads wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:59pm:

random wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:43pm: There has been something wrong with this appointment from the beginning. Pretty-boy steroid taking freak.  He has debased the medal. I mean what the faarking hell is this about? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/69/aa/ed69aa5fdbbb4e869aec2a215b5fac99.jpg What the farrk are you about you weak arsed cockroll?

Had a sherbert or two, Gonads?

:D

Aussie wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:00pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:53pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:47pm: Frank, the allegations against BRS are not unsubstantiated....by a very long shot. At the moment, the 'jury is out' and we are all waiting for that Judge to reach a decision. Any person with any sense of occasion, timing and decency would be far less tone deaf to what is happening. This bloke is quite literally a Judge's reserved decision away from being declared, on the balance of probability, a cold blooded murderer. What bloody lawyer are you Aussie? The burden of proof for such criminal matters is beyond a reasonable doubt NOT on the balance of probabilities. 😳 No schit, Sherlock.  Now, tell me what the burden of proof is in civil litigation.

Why? You already did that.

Captain Caveman wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:00pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:48pm: Captain Caveman wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:43pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:23pm: Frank wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:04pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 4:32pm: Link. With so much hanging over his head, he ought to have had the common sense to decline. Idiot. He is not on trial, bozo. He is a decorated war hero, far more courageous and exemplary than you. A VC is a big deal and the invitation is a great honour. Just because he is defamed - and the case is still undecided - he should not give in to the baying mob mentality you are a voice of. Like I said...with all the schit hanging over his head...he ought to have politely declined.  You know...if Albo has serious allegations like cold blooded murder raised against him, he would appropriately step aside until the allegations were sorted.  You'd expect that, I'm sure. What schit? In battle there are no laws. Wake up stupid. Pretty much spot on. In war you shoot to kill OR YOU will be killed. 1. A soldier is a trained killer <--- harsh reality which people find too brutal to accept. 2. A police officer enforces the law. The guy is a trained killer not a police officer. You train someone to kill, then when they do what you expected of them, let the lawyers loose on them. Better idea. If lawyers want a slice of a soldier then they get their chance in the soldiers environment. Arm them with their weapon of choice and send them in. Air it live on TV so future grubby schit carent lawyers get the message. Guaranteed to be the no.1 viewed TV show in history.

Cute...so let's turn that back at ye with some facts.

The idiot entered the realm of lawyers when he sued for defamation.

He might win, and he might lose.  If he loses, he is toast, and all is lost, not just a court case.

He picked/chose the hill on which he wanted to fight it out....wrong hill, mesuspects.

If you enter a Court Room, guns don't cut the mustard.

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:02pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:00pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:53pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:47pm: Frank, the allegations against BRS are not unsubstantiated....by a very long shot. At the moment, the 'jury is out' and we are all waiting for that Judge to reach a decision. Any person with any sense of occasion, timing and decency would be far less tone deaf to what is happening. This bloke is quite literally a Judge's reserved decision away from being declared, on the balance of probability, a cold blooded murderer. What bloody lawyer are you Aussie? The burden of proof for such criminal matters is beyond a reasonable doubt NOT on the balance of probabilities. 😳 No schit, Sherlock.  Now, tell me what the burden of proof is in civil litigation. Why? You already did that.

So....why did you mention criminal matters?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Len_Roberts-Smith

Meet his dad 😳

Major General Leonard William Roberts-Smith, RFD, QC (born 25 October 1946) is a former Justice of the Supreme Court of Western Australia. From February 2005, he was one of the inaugural Judges of the Court of Appeal Division, having been first appointed to the Supreme Court on 6 November 2000. From May 2007, he served as Commissioner of the Corruption and Crime Commission of Western Australia, having been appointed for a five-year term. He retired on 31 January 2011.

Roberts-Smith joined the Australian Army Reserve in 1964, being commissioned as a second lieutenant (Royal Australian Infantry) in 1969. When he moved to Port Moresby in 1970, Roberts-Smith transferred to the Australian Army Legal Corps as a reservist with the rank of captain. During his time in Papua New Guinea, he was promoted to major. In 1985, he was appointed as a judge advocate and a defence force magistrate. He was promoted to lieutenant colonel in 1986 and colonel in June 1994. On 6 June 2002, Roberts-Smith was appointed Judge Advocate General (JAG) of the Australian Defence Force and was promoted to major general, having been acting in the position since 3 October 2001. As JAG, Roberts-Smith was responsible for reporting annually to Parliament on the operation of the Defence Force Discipline Act 1982 and any other Commonwealth or Australian Capital Territory law relating to the discipline of the Defence Force. He was also responsible for making procedural rules for Service tribunals, providing the final legal review of proceedings with the Defence Force, and participating in the appointment of Judge Advocates, Defence Force Magistrates, Presidents and members of the courts martial. His appointment to the substantive position was for a three-year term. In 2005, he was reappointed by the Governor-General of Australia for a further two years.

On 26 November 2012 the Australian Government Minister for Defence, Stephen Smith, announced that Roberts-Smith had been appointed chair of an independent Defence Abuse Response Taskforce (DART), to deal with individual complaints of sexual and other abuse in the Australian Defence Force.

https://44bars.com/who-is-barrister-arthur-moses-everything-to-know-about-gladys-berejiklians-new-boyfriend-o/

Meet his barrister 😳

Arthur Moses is a prominent barrister. He joined NSW Bar in 1993 and has over 25 years of experience working for it.

Further, Mr. Moses was appointed Senior Counsel (SC) in 2008.

Arthur also served as President of the NSW Bar Association and President of the Law Council of Australia.

Currently, he is representing Ben Roberts-Smith in a high-profile defamation case against Nine newspapers.

NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian’s boyfriend Arthur Moses, SC, is a Sydney-based barrister who is an expert on administrative law, coronial inquests, corruption inquiries, proceeds of crime litigation, and more. Moses is also a Squadron Leader in the Royal Australian Air Force Specialist Reserve.

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:08pm:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Len_Roberts-Smith Meet his dad 😳 Major General Leonard William Roberts-Smith, RFD, QC (born 25 October 1946) is a former Justice of the Supreme Court of Western Australia. From February 2005, he was one of the inaugural Judges of the Court of Appeal Division, having been first appointed to the Supreme Court on 6 November 2000. From May 2007, he served as Commissioner of the Corruption and Crime Commission of Western Australia, having been appointed for a five-year term. He retired on 31 January 2011. Roberts-Smith joined the Australian Army Reserve in 1964, being commissioned as a second lieutenant (Royal Australian Infantry) in 1969. When he moved to Port Moresby in 1970, Roberts-Smith transferred to the Australian Army Legal Corps as a reservist with the rank of captain. During his time in Papua New Guinea, he was promoted to major. In 1985, he was appointed as a judge advocate and a defence force magistrate. He was promoted to lieutenant colonel in 1986 and colonel in June 1994. On 6 June 2002, Roberts-Smith was appointed Judge Advocate General (JAG) of the Australian Defence Force and was promoted to major general, having been acting in the position since 3 October 2001. As JAG, Roberts-Smith was responsible for reporting annually to Parliament on the operation of the Defence Force Discipline Act 1982 and any other Commonwealth or Australian Capital Territory law relating to the discipline of the Defence Force. He was also responsible for making procedural rules for Service tribunals, providing the final legal review of proceedings with the Defence Force, and participating in the appointment of Judge Advocates, Defence Force Magistrates, Presidents and members of the courts martial. His appointment to the substantive position was for a three-year term. In 2005, he was reappointed by the Governor-General of Australia for a further two years. On 26 November 2012 the Australian Government Minister for Defence, Stephen Smith, announced that Roberts-Smith had been appointed chair of an independent Defence Abuse Response Taskforce (DART), to deal with individual complaints of sexual and other abuse in the Australian Defence Force.

Yes, and I imagine his Dad is one of the reasons he is still.....ummm...........not yet facing a Court Martial.  That may come, still.

The Army/Military is always going to be very slow and loathe to take any action against a VC winner for obvious reasons, but when that VC winner has an Old Man holding such a high position in the Army....that is also a 'road block.'  Not an impenetrable one, but...a road block.

I understand that another reason things are seemingly going very slowly as is that...as has been implied by someone up there ^^^^^^......up the chain of command, there are some very nervous people who now hold VERY senior positions and who, at the relevant time, were real time players in it all.

Still, all that is pretty much beside the point I am making.  BRS should have politely declined the invitation.

Aussie wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:05pm:

Captain Caveman wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:00pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:48pm: Captain Caveman wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:43pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:23pm: Frank wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:04pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 4:32pm: Link. With so much hanging over his head, he ought to have had the common sense to decline. Idiot. He is not on trial, bozo. He is a decorated war hero, far more courageous and exemplary than you. A VC is a big deal and the invitation is a great honour. Just because he is defamed - and the case is still undecided - he should not give in to the baying mob mentality you are a voice of. Like I said...with all the schit hanging over his head...he ought to have politely declined.  You know...if Albo has serious allegations like cold blooded murder raised against him, he would appropriately step aside until the allegations were sorted.  You'd expect that, I'm sure. What schit? In battle there are no laws. Wake up stupid. Pretty much spot on. In war you shoot to kill OR YOU will be killed. 1. A soldier is a trained killer <--- harsh reality which people find too brutal to accept. 2. A police officer enforces the law. The guy is a trained killer not a police officer. You train someone to kill, then when they do what you expected of them, let the lawyers loose on them. Better idea. If lawyers want a slice of a soldier then they get their chance in the soldiers environment. Arm them with their weapon of choice and send them in. Air it live on TV so future grubby schit carent lawyers get the message. Guaranteed to be the no.1 viewed TV show in history. Cute...so let's turn that back at ye with some facts. The idiot entered the realm of lawyers when he sued for defamation. He might win, and he might lose.  If he loses, he is toast, and all is lost, not just a court case. He picked/chose the hill on which he wanted to fight it out....wrong hill, mesuspects. If you enter a Court Room, guns don't cut the mustard.

Not cute pal.

I bet he'd rather take these slimmy picks into a battle zone head on, all at once.
Whoever survives, goes home without any more ramifications.

He sued for defamation because that's your stupid game.
Play his for once....  ;D ;D ;D

Meanwhile....back in the world of reality.......

Yadda wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:54pm:

Quote: It is not 'cold blooded murder' to kill the enemy you are sent to kill. I'd be inclined to trust Roberts-Smith VC judgement, in that 'theatre of war', Afghanistan. We, all Australians, asked him and others, to go there, and to fight a dirty, ill defined war. 'Afghanistan', was still essentially warfare, ....except that in Afghanistan, the enemy were not openly 'declaring themselves', and they were not wearing any recognisable uniform. And yet, the enemy in Afghanistan, still managed to inflict many casualties upon the coalition forces. Roberts-Smith VC,   .....i hope that he is acquitted. Any other verdict would be a 'win' for the ISLAMISTS everywhere, imo.

Actually, I'd say it was a victory for judicial process, Yadda.

War is best characterised as organised chaos, chaos in which there are rules and discipline, on our side, at least.  Ben Roberts-Smith appears on the evidence to have exceeded his personal authority and killed Afghanis without authority.   And that is the point of the court case that he brought against the media outlets - the fact that they revealed he had exceeded his authority and killed people unnecessarily.  Personally, as an ex-soldier I am glad that the case has occurred.  Either he will be cleared or he will be condemned.   Some people will always confer guilt without reason, even if he is cleared.  Some people will clear him even if the courts don't.   Personally, people are being premature in their judgement.

Aussie wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:26pm:

Meanwhile....back in the world of reality.......

A reality you enjoy because of the man you want to put to trial.
How fuctt up is that?  :D :D :D

Captain Caveman wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:31pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:26pm: Meanwhile....back in the world of reality....... A reality you enjoy because of the man you want to put to trial. How fuctt up is that?  :D :D :D

No......the alleged conduct of BRS is not anything I want to be associated with.  If what he is alleged to have done is the reason I speak English and not Afghani, then I'd rather speak Afghani, thank you.

Aussie wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:05pm:

Captain Caveman wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:00pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:48pm: Captain Caveman wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:43pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:23pm: Frank wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:04pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 4:32pm: Link. With so much hanging over his head, he ought to have had the common sense to decline. Idiot. He is not on trial, bozo. He is a decorated war hero, far more courageous and exemplary than you. A VC is a big deal and the invitation is a great honour. Just because he is defamed - and the case is still undecided - he should not give in to the baying mob mentality you are a voice of. Like I said...with all the schit hanging over his head...he ought to have politely declined.  You know...if Albo has serious allegations like cold blooded murder raised against him, he would appropriately step aside until the allegations were sorted.  You'd expect that, I'm sure. What schit? In battle there are no laws. Wake up stupid. Pretty much spot on. In war you shoot to kill OR YOU will be killed. 1. A soldier is a trained killer <--- harsh reality which people find too brutal to accept. 2. A police officer enforces the law. The guy is a trained killer not a police officer. You train someone to kill, then when they do what you expected of them, let the lawyers loose on them. Better idea. If lawyers want a slice of a soldier then they get their chance in the soldiers environment. Arm them with their weapon of choice and send them in. Air it live on TV so future grubby schit carent lawyers get the message. Guaranteed to be the no.1 viewed TV show in history. Cute...so let's turn that back at ye with some facts. The idiot entered the realm of lawyers when he sued for defamation. He might win, and he might lose.  If he loses, he is toast, and all is lost, not just a court case. He picked/chose the hill on which he wanted to fight it out....wrong hill, mesuspects. If you enter a Court Room, guns don't cut the mustard.

Well, looking at YOUR reputation, you would say that.


Tsk, tsk  ::) ::)

random wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:43pm:

There has been something wrong with this appointment from the beginning. Pretty-boy steroid taking freak.  He has debased the medal. I mean what the faarking hell is this about? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/69/aa/ed69aa5fdbbb4e869aec2a215b5fac99.jpg

In which war did YOU fight, Predictable wazzock?

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:51pm:

random wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:43pm: There has been something wrong with this appointment from the beginning. Pretty-boy steroid taking freak.  He has debased the medal. I mean what the faarking hell is this about? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/69/aa/ed69aa5fdbbb4e869aec2a215b5fac99.jpg In which war did YOU fight, Predictable wazzock?

Random can speak for himself. 

I've fought in none.

You, Frank?

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:48pm:

The guy is a trained killer not a police officer.

Nonsense, Lisa.

A soldier is not a trained killer. A soldier is a soldier.

The Taliban is NOT a uniformed military force. They look exactly like civilians - and they shoot. Soldiers in a lawless, violent and hostile country WILL shoot civilian looking enemies because there is NO Taliban uniform.

The tragedy of the 20 year war in Afghanistan is that not enough Taliban have been killed. And that the Afghans are themselves mostly Taliban. Or utter cowards who agree with the Taliban.

When Islam takes hold of the soul and mind of converted people as it has in Afghanistan, there is no remedy for them. Like the Pakistanis, Afghans are an example of what happens to people who take Islam seriously instead of their own cultural roots. They go mad.

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:49pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:05pm: Captain Caveman wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:00pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:48pm: Captain Caveman wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:43pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:23pm: Frank wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:04pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 4:32pm: Link. With so much hanging over his head, he ought to have had the common sense to decline. Idiot. He is not on trial, bozo. He is a decorated war hero, far more courageous and exemplary than you. A VC is a big deal and the invitation is a great honour. Just because he is defamed - and the case is still undecided - he should not give in to the baying mob mentality you are a voice of. Like I said...with all the schit hanging over his head...he ought to have politely declined.  You know...if Albo has serious allegations like cold blooded murder raised against him, he would appropriately step aside until the allegations were sorted.  You'd expect that, I'm sure. What schit? In battle there are no laws. Wake up stupid. Pretty much spot on. In war you shoot to kill OR YOU will be killed. 1. A soldier is a trained killer <--- harsh reality which people find too brutal to accept. 2. A police officer enforces the law. The guy is a trained killer not a police officer. You train someone to kill, then when they do what you expected of them, let the lawyers loose on them. Better idea. If lawyers want a slice of a soldier then they get their chance in the soldiers environment. Arm them with their weapon of choice and send them in. Air it live on TV so future grubby schit carent lawyers get the message. Guaranteed to be the no.1 viewed TV show in history. Cute...so let's turn that back at ye with some facts. The idiot entered the realm of lawyers when he sued for defamation. He might win, and he might lose.  If he loses, he is toast, and all is lost, not just a court case. He picked/chose the hill on which he wanted to fight it out....wrong hill, mesuspects. If you enter a Court Room, guns don't cut the mustard. Well, looking at YOUR reputation, you would say that. Tsk, tsk  ::) ::)

I have no idea what you are referring to, but I guess it was/is some sort of ad hom attack at me.  *Yawn.*

How about you address what I said....not me, ey, Frank?  Too hard is it?

Aussie wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 8:01pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:51pm: random wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:43pm: There has been something wrong with this appointment from the beginning. Pretty-boy steroid taking freak.  He has debased the medal. I mean what the faarking hell is this about? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/69/aa/ed69aa5fdbbb4e869aec2a215b5fac99.jpg In which war did YOU fight, Predictable wazzock? Random can speak for himself.  I've fought in none. You, Frank?

None - but I have the respect NOT to piss on those who have.  Unlike you, roasted, gloating toad.

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 8:04pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 8:01pm: Frank wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:51pm: random wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:43pm: There has been something wrong with this appointment from the beginning. Pretty-boy steroid taking freak.  He has debased the medal. I mean what the faarking hell is this about? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/69/aa/ed69aa5fdbbb4e869aec2a215b5fac99.jpg In which war did YOU fight, Predictable wazzock? Random can speak for himself.  I've fought in none. You, Frank? None - but I have the respect NOT to piss on those who have.  Unlike you, roasted, gloating toad.

Dunno about you Frank, but I don't respect arseholes who throw people off high walls, or, for example, some Japanese soldiers who in WW11, raped pillaged and burned their way down through Asia.  You?

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:57pm:

random wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:43pm: There has been something wrong with this appointment from the beginning. Pretty-boy steroid taking freak.  He has debased the medal. I mean what the faarking hell is this about? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/69/aa/ed69aa5fdbbb4e869aec2a215b5fac99.jpg FFS! He's NOT JUST a soldier! He's SAS. You do know that Australia's SAS are the best in the world...yeah? And see how fit he is? He HAS to be fit. SUPER FIT in fact!

Every cuntry says that their soldiers are the best in the word, grow up FFS!

He is a steroid user, you do not get a body like that eating bananas.  'Roid-Rage' is a side effect of heavy steroid use, uncontrolled rages, sudden out of context anger outbursts and lack of empathy.  Much of the Road Rage incidents are Roid-Rage triggered.  Not to mention domestic violence.  Starting to see the trend here?

He was given a VC because the country needed another hero.  He was 'connected' through his father, was Male Model material and was in Afghanistan, it needed a make-over.  Now, because it was all done for the wrong reasons, karma has stepped in.

BTW, most of the really effective special forces people across countries are often of average height or below.  Short bones, wirey little bastards, efficient on food and can go for days without it.  This guy could not do that, he could not go for long with out a hit of go juice.

Aussie wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 8:10pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 8:04pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 8:01pm: Frank wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:51pm: random wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:43pm: There has been something wrong with this appointment from the beginning. Pretty-boy steroid taking freak.  He has debased the medal. I mean what the faarking hell is this about? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/69/aa/ed69aa5fdbbb4e869aec2a215b5fac99.jpg In which war did YOU fight, Predictable wazzock? Random can speak for himself.  I've fought in none. You, Frank? None - but I have the respect NOT to piss on those who have.  Unlike you, roasted, gloating toad. Dunno about you Frank, but I don't respect arseholes who throw people off high walls, or, for example, some Japanese soldiers who in WW11, raped pillaged and burned their way down through Asia.  You?

It takes a stuffed toad like you to treat allegations as proofs as long as you can tear down your betters.

random wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 9:08pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:57pm: random wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:43pm: There has been something wrong with this appointment from the beginning. Pretty-boy steroid taking freak.  He has debased the medal. I mean what the faarking hell is this about? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/69/aa/ed69aa5fdbbb4e869aec2a215b5fac99.jpg FFS! He's NOT JUST a soldier! He's SAS. You do know that Australia's SAS are the best in the world...yeah? And see how fit he is? He HAS to be fit. SUPER FIT in fact! Every cuntry says that their soldiers are the best in the word, grow up FFS! He is a steroid user, you do not get a body like that eating bananas.  'Roid-Rage' is a side effect of heavy steroid use, uncontrolled rages, sudden out of context anger outbursts and lack of empathy.  Much of the Road Rage incidents are Roid-Rage triggered.  Not to mention domestic violence.  Starting to see the trend here? He was given a VC because the country needed another hero.  He was 'connected' through his father, was Male Model material and was in Afghanistan, it needed a make-over.  Now, because it was all done for the wrong reasons, karma has stepped in. BTW, most of the really effective special forces people across countries are often of average height or below.  Short bones, wirey little bastards, efficient on food and can go for days without it.  This guy could not do that, he could not go for long with out a hit of go juice.

Ratty has spoken...

random wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 9:08pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:57pm: random wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:43pm: There has been something wrong with this appointment from the beginning. Pretty-boy steroid taking freak.  He has debased the medal. I mean what the faarking hell is this about? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/69/aa/ed69aa5fdbbb4e869aec2a215b5fac99.jpg FFS! He's NOT JUST a soldier! He's SAS. You do know that Australia's SAS are the best in the world...yeah? And see how fit he is? He HAS to be fit. SUPER FIT in fact! Every cuntry says that their soldiers are the best in the word, grow up FFS! He is a steroid user, you do not get a body like that eating bananas.  'Roid-Rage' is a side effect of heavy steroid use, uncontrolled rages, sudden out of context anger outbursts and lack of empathy.  Much of the Road Rage incidents are Roid-Rage triggered.  Not to mention domestic violence.  Starting to see the trend here? He was given a VC because the country needed another hero.  He was 'connected' through his father, was Male Model material and was in Afghanistan, it needed a make-over.  Now, because it was all done for the wrong reasons, karma has stepped in. BTW, most of the really effective special forces people across countries are often of average height or below.  Short bones, wirey little bastards, efficient on food and can go for days without it.  This guy could not do that, he could not go for long with out a hit of go juice.

Not to mention sparing of water.......  SAS stands for Short And Stupid.... SBS for Short and Bloody Stupid.... most Delta personnel are about 5'8" maybe plus .....  SF and SEALs range across all heights and builds....

The little guy is Captain Richard Flaherty, 5th SF Group:-

https://images03.military.com/sites/default/files/styles/full/public/2018-02/giantkiller.jpg

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 8:03pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:48pm: The guy is a trained killer not a police officer. Nonsense, Lisa. A soldier is not a trained killer. A soldier is a soldier. .. Soldiers in a lawless, violent and hostile country WILL shoot civilian looking enemies because there is NO Taliban uniform.

Frank in effect is agreeing with Lisa. They agree that prisoners should be shot. That is the crime that is charged against the accused. The world charges Russian killers with that crime in Ukraine.

Gnads wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:59pm:

random wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:43pm: There has been something wrong with this appointment from the beginning. Pretty-boy steroid taking freak.  He has debased the medal. I mean what the faarking hell is this about? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/69/aa/ed69aa5fdbbb4e869aec2a215b5fac99.jpg What the farrk are you about you weak arsed cockroll?

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Gnads wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:59pm:

random wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:43pm: There has been something wrong with this appointment from the beginning. Pretty-boy steroid taking freak.  He has debased the medal. I mean what the faarking hell is this about? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/69/aa/ed69aa5fdbbb4e869aec2a215b5fac99.jpg What the farrk are you about you weak arsed cockroll?

I thought I made that clear, but for the slow ones in this herd, I will repeat myself.

"He is a steroid user, you do not get a body like that eating bananas.  'Roid-Rage' is a side effect of heavy steroid use, uncontrolled rages, sudden out of context anger outbursts and lack of empathy.  Much of the Road Rage incidents are Roid-Rage triggered.  Not to mention domestic violence.  Starting to see the trend here?

He was given a VC because the country needed another hero.  He was 'connected' through his father, was Male Model material and was in Afghanistan, it needed a make-over.  Now, because it was all done for the wrong reasons, karma has stepped in.

BTW, most of the really effective special forces people across countries are often of average height or below.  Short bones, wirey little bastards, efficient on food and can go for days without it.  This guy could not do that, he could not go for long with out a hit of go juice."

Hey everyone .... I've been quietly reflecting about this topic and I'm beginning to see too much of 1 colour : grey.

I don't think we have enough information to know what to think or feel about Roberts Smith.

So I've started collating a jig saw puzzle of sorts here ...consisting of pieces (evidenced by links) which focus on the guy himself AND the contextual environment ie sub culture under which he operated.

I strongly recommend (of course you don't have to lol) that we all read this interesting link. If you find anything interesting online that sheds light on Roberts Smith ... by all means please share that information.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-11/killings-of-unarmed-afghans-by-australian-special-forces/8466642

Article 3.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-treatment-prisoners-war

chimera wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 10:17am:

Article 3. https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-treatment-prisoners-war

It has yet to be proven that R-S actually did not abide by those tenets....

There is nothing wrong with this appointment at this time....

Now what about that apology to 2 Sqn and its restoration?

That's so and my posts were about Frank and Lisa approving of the alleged shooting of prisoners in the court trial.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 10:47am:

chimera wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 10:17am: Article 3. https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-treatment-prisoners-war It has yet to be proven that R-S actually did not abide by those tenets.... There is nothing wrong with this appointment at this time.... Now what about that apology to 2 Sqn and its restoration?

While the Brereton Report remains , that 'SQN' will remain disbanded.  The few very bad apples sullied the name of the noble many, but....no more 'getting away with it.'

It seems meet then that the Brereton Report be put to the full test....

Bring on the actions....................... or surrender now.   Such accusations cannot be left hanging in the air while awaiting the outcome of some civil suit.............

civil suit ...war crimes inquiry.

chimera wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 12:44pm:

civil suit ...war crimes inquiry.

No equation between the two.... one is a civil suit - if there were indeed war crimes or even sufficient evidence to indicate so - these should go to trial to clear the air, and not just be left hanging or sitting like a pile of compost and slowly decomposing.

Sounds to me that those with the review in hand feel there is insufficient evidence to proceed - but persist with their personal "in the officer's mess" handling of allegations by imposing regulatory sanctions = 'company punishment' on the grand scale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vACGyOyuMQk

They will be on the same facts and virtually cause the same impact on the accused and the unit. At least all the material will be given plenty of time to be assessed.

chimera wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 1:34pm:

They will be on the same facts and virtually cause the same impact on the accused and the unit. At least all the material will be given plenty of time to be assessed.

A civil suit and a legal case have different outcomes, and one cannot be used to prove another.  Different arenas.

You can't say:-  "Oh, well - the civil case found against Bloggs - therefore we find Bloggs guilty on the criminal charges..."

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 1:41pm:

chimera wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 1:34pm: They will be on the same facts and virtually cause the same impact on the accused and the unit. At least all the material will be given plenty of time to be assessed. A civil suit and a legal case have different outcomes, and one cannot be used to prove another.  Different arenas. You can't say:-  "Oh, well - the civil case found against Bloggs - therefore we find Bloggs guilty on the criminal charges..."

The terminology is very loose...all over the place.

Civil case = legal case.
Civil case does not equal criminal case.

Yes, an adverse conclusion in a civil case is irrelevant in any criminal case about the same issue.

Right, so it's virtually the same. It needs criminal intent if in the war crimes court and possible defences of drunk, provocation or insane which seem unlikely. The personal impact on the accused either way in both cases seems similar.

Imagine, just imagine ...

You are an SAS grunt who is ordered to shoot an unarmed person, dragged out of their bed.  You do it, you are 'blooded'.  It follows that if you have not been blooded you are not a real SAS dude.  The pressure to conform would be immense.

You get home, get discharged and the nightmares will not stop.  At a BBQ you are introduced to an Afghani family who just moved to the area, really nice people with a few kids.  You wake up screaming that night.

How many of the suicides we are seeing are related to these illegal behaviours?  I think quite a few.

random wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 9:31am:

Gnads wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:59pm: random wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:43pm: There has been something wrong with this appointment from the beginning. Pretty-boy steroid taking freak.  He has debased the medal. I mean what the faarking hell is this about? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/69/aa/ed69aa5fdbbb4e869aec2a215b5fac99.jpg What the farrk are you about you weak arsed cockroll? I thought I made that clear, but for the slow ones in this herd, I will repeat myself. "He is a steroid user, you do not get a body like that eating bananas.  'Roid-Rage' is a side effect of heavy steroid use, uncontrolled rages, sudden out of context anger outbursts and lack of empathy.  Much of the Road Rage incidents are Roid-Rage triggered.  Not to mention domestic violence.  Starting to see the trend here? He was given a VC because the country needed another hero.  He was 'connected' through his father, was Male Model material and was in Afghanistan, it needed a make-over.  Now, because it was all done for the wrong reasons, karma has stepped in. BTW, most of the really effective special forces people across countries are often of average height or below.  Short bones, wirey little bastards, efficient on food and can go for days without it.  This guy could not do that, he could not go for long with out a hit of go juice."

You're the slow one ... spruiking supposition.

Have you ever been in a theatre of war? Bet not.

The SAS in Afghanistan were being used beyond what that section was meant to do ... they were acting as infantrymen .... not their job.

I'd suggest you study a bit more military history ... the Vietnam conflict would be a good place...

you crapping on that BRS was a drug(roid) junkie & former model material is just bollocks.

You no nothing about the physical makeup of SAS personnel other than malicious supposition.

You need a tap behind the left listener.

Nearly every war campaign in history had both sides infusing their troops with narcotics as a reward system.
I mean - didn't the UN just love being shot at by US Pilots on amphetamines.

Aussie wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 12:33pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 10:47am: chimera wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 10:17am: Article 3. https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-treatment-prisoners-war It has yet to be proven that R-S actually did not abide by those tenets.... There is nothing wrong with this appointment at this time.... Now what about that apology to 2 Sqn and its restoration? While the Brereton Report remains , that 'SQN' will remain disbanded.  The few very bad apples sullied the name of the noble many, but....no more 'getting away with it.'

The Brereton Report was a snow job to take the heat off the ADF command & so they could throw BRS under the bus.

random wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 4:04pm:

Imagine, just imagine ... You are an SAS grunt who is ordered to shoot an unarmed person, dragged out of their bed.  You do it, you are 'blooded'.  It follows that if you have not been blooded you are not a real SAS dude.  The pressure to conform would be immense. You get home, get discharged and the nightmares will not stop.  At a BBQ you are introduced to an Afghani family who just moved to the area, really nice people with a few kids.  You wake up screaming that night. How many of the suicides we are seeing are related to these illegal behaviours?  I think quite a few.

You've missed your calling Freud ::)

Special Forces come in all shapes and sizes - there is no distinct type... they range from the tall well-built guy who looks football forward material to the 5'7" guy who sits quietly at a table in the bar and drinks slowly.

It is ability that counts - and Gnads is right - and as I've said times many over the years - the SASR were being used in a role that well-trained Infantry could handle equally well, and as far from their core  operational fit as they could possibly be.

Politicians do that to look good in the news... and equally the report overlooks many of the very real issues of command breakdown and what looks like cover-up from up high, not least the failure to infuse into newbie junior officers the rules of certain things on the ground.

Gnads wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 6:02pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 12:33pm: Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 10:47am: chimera wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 10:17am: Article 3. https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-treatment-prisoners-war It has yet to be proven that R-S actually did not abide by those tenets.... There is nothing wrong with this appointment at this time.... Now what about that apology to 2 Sqn and its restoration? While the Brereton Report remains , that 'SQN' will remain disbanded.  The few very bad apples sullied the name of the noble many, but....no more 'getting away with it.' The Brereton Report was a snow job to take the heat off the ADF command & so they could throw BRS under the bus.

Oh, I see.  Of course you can back that up with evidence I am sure.

No-one denies that up the line of command at the time, there were/are issues.  In time, that will all come out.  Any action taken against BRS will precipitate that.  Inescapable.

However, that does not in any way excuse those arseholes who conducted themselves in the manner described in that Report, and described by people who sat in a witness box and swore under oath about what they saw.

All that said....I remain firmly of the view that it is very poor judgement on the part of BRS to go to that funeral.

He loses nothing by staying here, and sending an apology.

What does he gain...SFA...other than in his own mind that the general invitation to all in some way vindicates him personally, or washes it all away.

Nah. 

Aussie wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 6:28pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 6:02pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 12:33pm: Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 10:47am: chimera wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 10:17am: Article 3. https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-treatment-prisoners-war It has yet to be proven that R-S actually did not abide by those tenets.... There is nothing wrong with this appointment at this time.... Now what about that apology to 2 Sqn and its restoration? While the Brereton Report remains , that 'SQN' will remain disbanded.  The few very bad apples sullied the name of the noble many, but....no more 'getting away with it.' The Brereton Report was a snow job to take the heat off the ADF command & so they could throw BRS under the bus. Oh, I see.  Of course you can back that up with evidence I am sure. No-one denies that up the line of command at the time, there were/are issues.  In time, that will all come out.  Any action taken against BRS will precipitate that.  Inescapable. However, that does not in any way excuse those arseholes who conducted themselves in the manner described in that Report, and described by people who sat in a witness box and swore under oath about what they saw. All that said....I remain firmly of the view that it is very poor judgement on the part of BRS to go to that funeral. He loses nothing by staying here, and sending an apology. What does he gain...SFA...other than in his own mind that the general invitation to all in some way vindicates him personally, or washes it all away. Nah.

And you & your excuses?

That makes zero sense to me Gonads.

How much of 'in time' do you want?

This BS has been dragging on for years now and the only result has been a serious undermining of the morale of the troops, and not a single conviction to show for it, let alone any serious look at the management issues in higher-higher.

It's a circus so far.

Gnads wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 6:39pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 6:28pm: Gnads wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 6:02pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 12:33pm: Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 10:47am: chimera wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 10:17am: Article 3. https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-treatment-prisoners-war It has yet to be proven that R-S actually did not abide by those tenets.... There is nothing wrong with this appointment at this time.... Now what about that apology to 2 Sqn and its restoration? While the Brereton Report remains , that 'SQN' will remain disbanded.  The few very bad apples sullied the name of the noble many, but....no more 'getting away with it.' The Brereton Report was a snow job to take the heat off the ADF command & so they could throw BRS under the bus. Oh, I see.  Of course you can back that up with evidence I am sure. No-one denies that up the line of command at the time, there were/are issues.  In time, that will all come out.  Any action taken against BRS will precipitate that.  Inescapable. However, that does not in any way excuse those arseholes who conducted themselves in the manner described in that Report, and described by people who sat in a witness box and swore under oath about what they saw. All that said....I remain firmly of the view that it is very poor judgement on the part of BRS to go to that funeral. He loses nothing by staying here, and sending an apology. What does he gain...SFA...other than in his own mind that the general invitation to all in some way vindicates him personally, or washes it all away. Nah.  And you & your excuses?

Staying away could be viewed as a confession of guilt by some... appearances matter - as it was R-S simply stood tall and said - "I'm not going to let people call me names and say I don't have the guts to show up and look in their eyes.  If they've got anything to say they can say it to my face!"

I've done the same thing.  Don't laugh.... and nobody says a word to your face.... they're out there talking all Pistol (Henry V) about what they'll do - like an Abbott shirtfront - but the moment they have the chance it's all quiet and maybe some indirect comment which means nothing and where the commenter is melted by the twin .44 eyes in response and says no more, even with a gang behind him.

R-S simply said with action:- Got something to say - say it in public and here and now to my face!

I can relate to that.

A circus of hearing facts from all available witnesses to make sure the outcome is real. Then the next step may be taken as the decision leads them forward.  Ozzie ozzie is not admissable as evidence.

Aussie wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 6:53pm:

That makes zero sense to me Gonads.

You're not trying hard enough.

chimera wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 12:40am:

A circus of hearing facts from all available witnesses to make sure the outcome is real. Then the next step may be taken as the decision leads them forward.  Ozzie ozzie is not admissable as evidence.

I'm happy to see that you think a civil action is the same and has the same effect as a criminal action.... many, since the advent of the violent and abusive 'violence' laws, make that mistake.  It was a part of the original concept of introducing those 'laws' - to lower the realities of the need to provide actual proof and substitute it with some chimerical concept of 'feeling'.

In other words - catering to the howling mob.

chimera wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 1:56pm:

Right, so it's virtually the same. It needs criminal intent if in the war crimes court and possible defences of drunk, provocation or insane which seem unlikely. The personal impact on the accused either way in both cases seems similar.

How is that saying they're the same?

chimera wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 8:17am:

chimera wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 1:56pm: Right, so it's virtually the same. It needs criminal intent if in the war crimes court and possible defences of drunk, provocation or insane which seem unlikely. The personal impact on the accused either way in both cases seems similar. How is that saying they're the same?

Just in that you previously said it was assembling facts... civil actions have different rules from facts proven... opinions etc are given weight and the outcome is decided on 'balance of probabilities'... meaning, in real life, whatever prejudice is in play.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 4:22pm:

chimera wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 8:17am: chimera wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 1:56pm: Right, so it's virtually the same. It needs criminal intent if in the war crimes court and possible defences of drunk, provocation or insane which seem unlikely. The personal impact on the accused either way in both cases seems similar. How is that saying they're the same? Just in that you previously said it was assembling facts... civil actions have different rules from facts proven... opinions etc are given weight and the outcome is decided on 'balance of probabilities'... meaning, in real life, whatever prejudice is in play.

Opinions are 'given weight' in many criminal trials.

Balance of probability means nothing more than....more probable than not.

And there is no more prejudice at play in a civil trial than there is in a criminal trial.

You really need to get a fuqqin bulldozer to move that chip off that shoulder, ya know.

I think he'll win this case.

👆 There I said it.

What do others think?

I believe the evidence against him is compelling and the denials etc from him and his camp.....self serving.

There is way too much evidence, cogent evidence of him trying to influence witnesses as well.

Aussie wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 4:41pm:

I believe the evidence against him is compelling and the denials etc from him and his camp.....self serving. There is way too much evidence, cogent evidence of him trying to influence witnesses as well.

Oh I agree.

Aussie wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 4:26pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 4:22pm: chimera wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 8:17am: chimera wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 1:56pm: Right, so it's virtually the same. It needs criminal intent if in the war crimes court and possible defences of drunk, provocation or insane which seem unlikely. The personal impact on the accused either way in both cases seems similar. How is that saying they're the same? Just in that you previously said it was assembling facts... civil actions have different rules from facts proven... opinions etc are given weight and the outcome is decided on 'balance of probabilities'... meaning, in real life, whatever prejudice is in play. Opinions are 'given weight' in many criminal trials. Balance of probability means nothing more than....more probable than not. And there is no more prejudice at play in a civil trial than there is in a criminal trial. You really need to get a fuqqin bulldozer to move that chip off that shoulder, ya know.

.... and you were doing so well until then...  B .......

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 4:42pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 4:41pm: I believe the evidence against him is compelling and the denials etc from him and his camp.....self serving. There is way too much evidence, cogent evidence of him trying to influence witnesses as well. Oh I agree.

Really? ::)

Gnads wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 6:44pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 4:42pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 4:41pm: I believe the evidence against him is compelling and the denials etc from him and his camp.....self serving. There is way too much evidence, cogent evidence of him trying to influence witnesses as well. Oh I agree. Really? ::)

Just because you post an emoji, does not change the fact BRS shot unarmed civilians.

And it's not just him.

https://youtu.be/E4PKS_qAxb8

random wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 6:53pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 6:44pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 4:42pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 4:41pm: I believe the evidence against him is compelling and the denials etc from him and his camp.....self serving. There is way too much evidence, cogent evidence of him trying to influence witnesses as well. Oh I agree. Really? ::) Just because you post an emoji, does not change the fact BRS shot unarmed civilians. And it's not just him. https://youtu.be/E4PKS_qAxb8

The taliban has never been a regular army. Nor are they 'civilians' .


Not enough have been killed, obviously - if killing and thwarting the taliban was the objective.

Justice delayed is justice denied... the evidence won't get any stronger while you sit around wasting time and hoping something conclusive will come out ....

Trial now or full withdrawal of charges and public apology.

Frank wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 7:01pm:

Not enough have been killed, obviously - if killing and thwarting the taliban was the objective.

The Taliban are the locals.  Same as the Viet Cong were.

If someone invaded my country I would join the resistance too.

random wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 6:53pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 6:44pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 4:42pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 4:41pm: I believe the evidence against him is compelling and the denials etc from him and his camp.....self serving. There is way too much evidence, cogent evidence of him trying to influence witnesses as well. Oh I agree. Really? ::) Just because you post an emoji, does not change the fact BRS shot unarmed civilians. And it's not just him. https://youtu.be/E4PKS_qAxb8

Those are the allegations........... if the case is so strong why not move on them?

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 7:07pm:

random wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 6:53pm: Gnads wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 6:44pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 4:42pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 4:41pm: I believe the evidence against him is compelling and the denials etc from him and his camp.....self serving. There is way too much evidence, cogent evidence of him trying to influence witnesses as well. Oh I agree. Really? ::) Just because you post an emoji, does not change the fact BRS shot unarmed civilians. And it's not just him. https://youtu.be/E4PKS_qAxb8 Those are the allegations........... if the case is so strong why not move on them?

Grappler...bit of reality, ey.

If you were the ADF, and you were dealing with a VC winner whose Old man was an influential Supreme Court Judge and a General...AND....there was a running civil trial addressing the very issues you were considering....would you not wait until at least the outcome of the civil trial?  After all, if the allegations are not found to be more probable than not as true on the evidence that Judge saw, it ain't likely a Jury is gonna be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt viewing the same evidence, is it.



Patience.

Gnads wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 6:44pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 4:42pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 4:41pm: I believe the evidence against him is compelling and the denials etc from him and his camp.....self serving. There is way too much evidence, cogent evidence of him trying to influence witnesses as well. Oh I agree. Really? ::)

Well I think so.

Even so ... I still think Roberts - Smith will win this case.

Aussie wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 7:19pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 7:07pm: random wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 6:53pm: Gnads wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 6:44pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 4:42pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 4:41pm: I believe the evidence against him is compelling and the denials etc from him and his camp.....self serving. There is way too much evidence, cogent evidence of him trying to influence witnesses as well. Oh I agree. Really? ::) Just because you post an emoji, does not change the fact BRS shot unarmed civilians. And it's not just him. https://youtu.be/E4PKS_qAxb8 Those are the allegations........... if the case is so strong why not move on them? Grappler...bit of reality, ey. If you were the ADF, and you were dealing with a VC winner whose Old man was an influential Supreme Court Judge and a General...AND....there was a running civil trial addressing the very issues you were considering....would you not wait until at least the outcome of the civil trial?  After all, if the allegations are not found to be more probable than not as true on the evidence that Judge saw, it ain't likely a Jury is gonna be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt viewing the same evidence, is it. Patience.

Not necessarily - OJ Simpson was found not guilty at criminal trial but was lobbed with massive payout in a civil case.

Courts can be funny things.  I'd have said OJ was a slam dunk misere, but not so at criminal trial.

Regardless, the law must not be influenced by such things.  It reflects no only on R-S but on all the others as well.

Let the evidence be presented in full - let right be done though the heavens fall!


If I were the ADF I'd tell the Daddy General to STFU and get out of the way or face charges.... I'm tough like that...

Anyway - some lengthy but interesting reading:-

https://www.fedcourt.gov.au/services/access-to-files-and-transcripts/online-files/ben-roberts-smith

Aussie wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 4:32pm:

Link. With so much hanging over his head, he ought to have had the common sense to decline. Idiot.

Roberts-Smith has a swollen head only exceeded in size by the plethora of very serious accusations made about him, under oath - and believes the funeral would not be possible without his presence


.

random wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 6:53pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 6:44pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 4:42pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 4:41pm: I believe the evidence against him is compelling and the denials etc from him and his camp.....self serving. There is way too much evidence, cogent evidence of him trying to influence witnesses as well. Oh I agree. Really? ::) Just because you post an emoji, does not change the fact BRS shot unarmed civilians. And it's not just him. https://youtu.be/E4PKS_qAxb8

And you know that for a fact?

BTW the emoji is a way of showing contempt.

I'll use them if I wish

So ffhuck off.

buzzanddidj wrote on Sep 16^th, 2022 at 6:46am:

Aussie wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 4:32pm: Link. With so much hanging over his head, he ought to have had the common sense to decline. Idiot. Roberts-Smith has a swollen head only exceeded in size by the plethora of very serious accusations made about him, under oath - and believes the funeral would not be possible without his presence .

What rot.