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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl Member Run Boards >> Islam >> Hijab, a symbol of oppression. http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1663739233 Message started by issuevoter on Sep 21^st, 2022 at 3:47pm

Title: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by issuevoter on Sep 21^st, 2022 at 3:47pm

Don't take my word for it. Women is Iran are beginning to stand up to the Muzzlum religious fanatics who run the country. Considering the treatment their protest will receive, that's brave, a lot bravery than Iranian men who actually benefit from Islam where women are possessions like cattle. And they call it "faith."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62967381

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Belgarion on Sep 21^st, 2022 at 4:01pm

Brave ladies taking a stand. I can't wait for the usual suspects to criticise this and bleat about 'islamophobia'.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Xavier on Sep 21^st, 2022 at 5:08pm

Traditional 'Arab' attire for women has a very practical purpose.
It keeps the sand from sandstorms out of their vagina's to they don't sand-paper the Arab male's woody down to a toothpick.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Sep 21^st, 2022 at 11:03pm

Women in Iran burning their hijabs :)

https://twitter.com/FridaGhitis/status/1572350814882267137

Do the apologists in this forum support these women burning their hijabs or do they support the nutjob Mullahs who made hijabs mandatory?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Sep 21^st, 2022 at 11:16pm

issuevoter wrote on Sep 21^st, 2022 at 3:47pm:

From your link

Quote:

She was with her brother in Tehran when she was arrested by morality police, who accused her of breaking the law requiring women to cover their hair with a hijab, or headscarf, and their arms and legs with loose clothing. She fell into the coma shortly after collapsing at a detention centre.

There were reports that police beat Ms Amini's head with a baton and banged her head against one of their vehicles, Acting UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Nada al-Nashif said.

the UN had received "numerous, and verified, videos of violent treatment of women" as morality police expanded their street patrols in recent months to crack down on those perceived to be wearing "loose hijab".

What are Iran's hijab laws?
Following the 1979 Islamic Revolution, authorities in Iran imposed a mandatory dress code requiring all women to wear a headscarf and loose-fitting clothing that disguises their figures in public.

Morality police - known formally as "Gasht-e Ershad" (Guidance Patrols) - are tasked, among other things, with ensuring women conform with the authorities' interpretation of "proper" clothing. Officers have the power to stop women and assess whether they are showing too much hair; their trousers and overcoats are too short or close-fitting; or they are wearing too much make-up. Punishments for violating the rules include a fine, prison or flogging.

In 2014, Iranian women began sharing photos and videos of themselves publicly flouting the hijab laws as part of an online protest campaign called "My Stealthy Freedom". It has since inspired other movements, including "White Wednesdays" and "Girls of Revolution Street".

In Tehran, videos posted online showed women taking off their headscarves and shouting "death to the dictator" - a chant often used in reference to the Supreme Leader. Others shouted "justice, liberty, no to mandatory hijab".

So much for the bullshit from apologists claiming the hijab is optional not mandatory and women have a choice. The Islamic revolution in Iran in 1979 was pretty much like the Taliban enforcing women to wear Hijabs.

These morality police in Iran believe it's OK for their prophet to marry a 6 year old child and pork her when she was 9 years of age.

Iranian women have been protesting about the hijab since 2014 it's clear apologists like Mothra,Future Left wanker Greggy and John along with arsie support the mad mullahs over these women when it comes to hijabs.

The hypocrisy of apologists to brand people who criticise Islam as islamophobes while turning a blind eye to women being killed by Islamic regime for not wearing hijab correctly.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by AusGeoff on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 6:45am

I've posted this image some time ago, but I still find it offensive
for all sorts of reasons. It's a group of young female students in
school uniform, in the centre of Sydney, captured in 2017. Their
teacher has the red scarf.

Do we really want to see this blatant example of religious oppression
here in Australia? Are these girls too young and not sufficiently worldly
experienced to have made a personal decision to wear this regalia? Or
have their parents and/or teachers threatened them with various forms
of home or school punishment should they defy this requisite?

Australia is now generally regarded as a nominally secular country, with
the numbers of atheists now greater than either the Catholic adherents
or the Anglican adherents. [ABS 2021 Census]

And even more offensive (and distressing) is this image of three little
Muslim girls who obviously do not (and cannot) know the significance
of the clothes they're wearing. This is parental brainwashing at the
highest (or lowest?) level. Religious indoctrination of children has no
place in a 21st century Australian society.

And just as disturbing are the innocent smiles on each of their faces. :'(

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Xavier on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 7:53am

Had to work in Greenacre, not far from the Moslem school.
Had to drive past it to and from the work site.
Moslem guys would patrol the street as if it was theirs.
I would yell out "We want to seed your women!" etc which always annoyed them. :D

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by issuevoter on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 1:34pm

The era of the Shah has slipped into the past, but anyone researching it, will discover it was a favourite whinge of Leftists who would have been happy to see Russian backed communists take over. When the MuZZlum fanatics took over and introduced the Islamic Morality police, did Leftists admit they might have been wrong about the Shah and his evil American friends? Of course not. And why? Well, you see Leftists are not capable of self-criticism for the simple reason that they cannot be wrong, as they have everyone's best interests at heart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROTFx5rJleI

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Gordon on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 2:28pm

Islam is an embuggerance on any society it touches.

Imagine if the Persian culture continued to flourish instead of being extinguished by TurdLam

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:46pm

I see Brian and all the other Islamic apologists have nothing to say about the only religion they defend.

Do they support the Iranian women who burn their hijabs or the Mullahs who make them wear it?

yasmine.jpg (35 KB | 12 )

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:50pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:46pm:

Do they support the Iranian women who burn their hijabs or the Mullahs who make them wear it?

you clearly don't understand what you are being told. It's not about supporting the hijab. It's about supporting someones right to wear one if they so wish ya moron.

It's actually a very simple concept but for some reason you Islamaphobes struggle so much with it.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 6:07pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:50pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:46pm:

Do they support the Iranian women who burn their hijabs or the Mullahs who make them wear it?

You're the one who doesn't understand what you're being told the hijab is mandatory under Islamic law there is no choice. What choice do women have in places ruled by Sharia law like Saudi Arabia Iran and Afghanistan under the Taliban.

What about the rights of women who don't want to wear one do idiots like you think they're Islamophobes?

Have a look at pics of Iran before 1979 Islamic revolution where are the hijabs?

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=iran+in+the+70s&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiOjNLv96f6AhWQd94KHS8NC_QQ_AUoAXoECAIQAw&biw=1092&bih=504&dpr=1.25

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 7:56pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:50pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:46pm:

Do they support the Iranian women who burn their hijabs or the Mullahs who make them wear it?

You shouldn't be here if you are a hijabi.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 8:14pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 6:07pm:

You're the one who doesn't understand what you're being told the hijab is mandatory under Islamic law there is no choice

CRAP

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 11:05pm

You are free to wear the hijab.

I am free to call you a silly, oppressed, subservient doormat of a bint for doing it.

Free expression, both ways.

Everybody ululate!

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Lisa Jones on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 11:10pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 8:14pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 6:07pm:

You're the one who doesn't understand what you're being told the hijab is mandatory under Islamic law there is no choice

CRAP

You're disrespecting this poor dead woman by saying that!

E9861645-6A48-4F14-A67F-E730853ECF2A.jpeg (103 KB | 10 )

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Lisa Jones on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 11:15pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:46pm:

Exactly!

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by issuevoter on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 11:20pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:50pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:46pm:

Do they support the Iranian women who burn their hijabs or the Mullahs who make them wear it?

Cut the obfuscation and word games. How can you defend Islam over this. You have no argument other than to accuse people of an irrational fear of the religion. You Leftists just cannot admit you are wrong. Where's your "opium of the masses" now? That was some back peddling on your manifesto.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 6:57pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 8:14pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 6:07pm:

You're the one who doesn't understand what you're being told the hijab is mandatory under Islamic law there is no choice

CRAP

The only crap here comes from you.

yasmine_001.jpg (35 KB | 12 )

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 7:02pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 11:15pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:46pm:

Exactly!

The morally bankrupt left will choose to defend Islam over womens rights.

They would never let any other religion get away with this type of behaviour

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Gordon on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 7:03pm

issuevoter wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 11:20pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:50pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:46pm:

Do they support the Iranian women who burn their hijabs or the Mullahs who make them wear it?

Smith is a functionally retarded moron who literally dribbles when he composes his posts. Failing to grasp that women in Iran get beaten to death for choosing not to wear a hijab totally escapes him.

Here he is, the handsome rooster!

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by greggerypeccary on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 7:54pm

issuevoter wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 11:20pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:50pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:46pm:

Do they support the Iranian women who burn their hijabs or the Mullahs who make them wear it?

Cut the obfuscation and word games. How can you defend Islam over this.

What? :-/

Islam isn't doing this - evil men are.

Why are you such an apologist for them?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Gordon on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:26pm

Here's a good one that shows ISLAMIC CLERICS berating women about not wearing a hijab correctly.

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSR9vmBK4/

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Gordon on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:29pm

For the apologts of this disgusting religion,

MUSLIM WOMEN ARE JUST AS MUCH TO BLAME.

Morality police patrols are tasked with ensuring that women are not wearing "bad hijab"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62984076

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Gordon on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:30pm

Wearing your headscarf too daringly in Iran can result in a telling off by the morality police

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36101150

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by greggerypeccary on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:37pm

Why do the right-wingers on here continue to make excuses for these evil men?

Why must they always be apologists for these pricks by passing the buck?

I'm curious. Seriously.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Gordon on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:42pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:37pm:

Why do the right-wingers on here continue to make excuses for these evil men?

Why must they always be apologists for these pricks by passing the buck?

I'm curious. Seriously.

Are you drunk you stupid drunk driving chunt? These are women.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Gordon on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:43pm

Oh look, more male morality police disguised as women.
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/05/03/476511439/springtime-in-iran-means-the-morality-police-are-out-in-force

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Gordon on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:46pm

Yet more
http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1842911,00.html

super deduper

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Gordon on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:54pm

Men...

In the video, believed to be recorded on a mobile phone, a young woman and her friends can be seen arguing with some male and female police officers in a park, apparently over the woman’s hijab (a headscarf worn by many Muslim women who feel it is part of their religion).

She is then seen surrounded by two female officers who order her through both words and gestures to “stay in the corner” after she fearlessly criticises their attitude.

The situation escalates as the officers and the young woman exchange insults.

One of the female police officers is heard calling the young woman an “animal”, while she responds with words that roughly translate as “ignorant” and “shameless”.

A female police officer is then seen attacking the young woman and beating her furiously. Loud screams are heard afterwards as the young woman’s friends try to intervene and protect her.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/4/20/anger-in-iran-as-morality-police-scuffle-video-goes-viral

Here's the video.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bhvrk4SFA6r/

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by greggerypeccary on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 9:38pm

Why do the right-wingers on here continue to make excuses for these evil people?

Why must they always be apologists for these pricks by passing the buck?

I'm curious. Seriously.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by issuevoter on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 9:41pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 9:38pm:

Why do the right-wingers on here continue to make excuses for these evil people?

Why must they always be apologists for these pricks by passing the buck?

I'm curious. Seriously.

I don't know, but I am guessing for the same reason you defend Islam and have since you joined the forum.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 9:58pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 9:38pm:

Why do the right-wingers on here continue to make excuses for these evil people?

Why must they always be apologists for these pricks by passing the buck?

I'm curious. Seriously.

FD nailed it with apologists like little pecca

Quote:

I know the answer to this one. Greg is a habitual liar.

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1648075255/26#26

hijab_001.jpg (55 KB | 4 )

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 11:02pm

Quote:

1)
Ghazale Chelavi took to the streets to protest the killing of #MahsaAmini by hijab police in Iran but she herself got killed by security forces. Her friend told me that she got shot in the head in Amol city. She was 32 Yr old mountaineer full of life. Her family are shocked.

Another woman, Hananeh Kia, 23 Yr old was shot by Iranian security forces while she was protesting over the murder of #MahsaAmini in Nowshar city.
She is one of the dozens of ppl lost their lives during the ongoing protests. The world must take action against our killers

https://twitter.com/AlinejadMasih/status/1573212392926113792?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by greggerypeccary on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 8:06am

issuevoter wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 9:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 9:38pm:

Why do the right-wingers on here continue to make excuses for these evil people?

Why must they always be apologists for these pricks by passing the buck?

I'm curious. Seriously.

I don't know, ...

Do you think it might be because they're evil people themselves?

Why do the right-wingers on here continue to make excuses for evil people?

Why must they always be apologists for evildoers?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Xavier on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 8:28pm

I dunno Baron.
That Peccary fella sure does act like a Moslem most of the time in the name of the Media, short of Mohommedism.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 9:12pm

Jasin wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 8:28pm:

I dunno Baron.
That Peccary fella sure does act like a Moslem most of the time in the name of the Media, short of Mohommedism.

We can add Mothra Smithy and Future left wanker to that list along with Brian Ross.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 9:20pm

Quote:

Mahsa Amini's Murder Revealed the Truth: Hijab Is a Tool of Oppression

I am grateful that Mahsa Amini's name is making headlines.

Mahsa is the 22 year old Kurdish girl from Iran who was beaten to death by the morality police—a morality police devoid of any morality—for not covering her hair to their satisfaction.

I am grateful that people are paying attention to this young woman who was killed because of a few strands of hair. But I am also incredibly angry, frustrated, and infuriated that our screams have been ignored for so long. I am so sorry that it had to take a young woman losing her life by being brutally beaten until she was brain dead for the world to finally notice our screams.

It's not for lack of trying on our part.

We screamed when Aqsa Parvaz, a sixteen year old girl in Ontario, Canada was strangled to death by her father and brother over hijab.

We screamed when two sisters from Texas, Amina and Sarah Said, were shot and killed by their father as well.

We screamed when Banaz Mahmod was killed by her family in the United Kingdom, chopped up and stuffed into a suitcase and buried in her family's backyard.

We screamed every time women in Pakistan, Algeria, and Egypt were killed over hijab.

But no one heard our screams.

Instead, people in the West continued to regurgitate the Islamist propaganda, insisting to we who know better that that wearing hijab is simply "an empowering choice."What are our choices? Wear it or suffer the consequences? The word "choice" is a lie in this context.

We watched major corporations like Nike and Lululemon endorse this tool of misogyny by putting their insignia on hijabs.

We watched politicians, journalists, and other female leaders choose to subjugate themselves by wearing the hijab and covering their shame when they stood to address a religious extremist man.

You continued to parade the hijab on the cover of your magazines and books as if it was nothing more than benign cultural dress.

You not only ignored our screams, but you actively supported our oppressors. You actively supported extremists who encouraged you to make child-size hijabs in the name of inclusion and diversity.

Endorsing hijab on children is endorsing child abuse and gender segregation. Those are not cultural values; those are toxic misogynist ideals.

As Masih Alinejad, the fearless campaigner for Iranian women, has said, "It is an insult to a nation to tell us that hijab is our culture, that gender segregation and misogyny is our culture."

Iranian women and their supporters are not interested in upholding misogynist traditions that demand we cover our shameful bodies, shameful hair, and even shameful faces. We are interested in the same bodily autonomy and personal freedoms that you enjoy.

We are not aliens from a subspecies. We are human beings too. We are fighting for our lives and the lives of our sisters and our daughters and all the women and girls who will come after us.

We are not even asking you to support us. We are just asking you to stop supporting our oppressors. We are asking you to hear our screams.

https://www.newsweek.com/mahsa-aminis-murder-revealed-truth-hijab-tool-oppression-opinion-1745874

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 10:11pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 9:20pm:

Quote:

The above article is by YASMINE MOHAMMED , AUTHOR OF 'UNVEILED: HOW WESTERN LIBERALS EMPOWER RADICAL ISLAM'

https://youtu.be/cLM8G2PgPw8

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 10:17pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 8:06am:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 9:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 9:38pm:

Why do the right-wingers on here continue to make excuses for these evil people?

Why must they always be apologists for these pricks by passing the buck?

I'm curious. Seriously.

I don't know, ...

Do you think it might be because they're evil people themselves?

Why do the right-wingers on here continue to make excuses for evil people?

Why must they always be apologists for evildoers?

Who are the evildoers? The Muslim enforcers of Mohammedan superstitions and cruel subjugation. Who are the apologists for them? You, turdy substances, Bbwian, Plankers, khunt, Mothra et al.

I don't think even Gandalf is as spinelessly and brazenly apologetic for them as you lot.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by greggerypeccary on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 7:24am

Frank wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 10:17pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 8:06am:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 9:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 9:38pm:

Why do the right-wingers on here continue to make excuses for these evil people?

Why must they always be apologists for these pricks by passing the buck?

I'm curious. Seriously.

I don't know, ...

Do you think it might be because they're evil people themselves?

Why do the right-wingers on here continue to make excuses for evil people?

Why must they always be apologists for evildoers?

Who are the evildoers?

The individuals you make excuses for day after day.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by AusGeoff on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 8:18am

Australia needs to be wary of the insidious infiltration of practicing
Muslim migrants entering the country.    At 28 June this year, there
were 813,392 Muslims living here, or 3.2% of the population. This
compares with 91,023 Jews, and 243,700 Hindus (the fastest growing
religion in Australia).

As Roman Catholicism and Anglicanism both suffer a major loss of
adherents, we need to ensure—immediately—that Islam doesn't become
any sort of de facto political force. Which is why I'm pleased to see
the increase in atheism numbers in Australia, outstripping both the
Catholics and the Protestants for the first time in the last 2021 census.

Islam is a religion of subjugation of women's rights, cultural oppression,
suppression of any opposition—usually with violence, social prejudices,
religious discrimination, and overbearing, unequivocal adherence to
Qur'anic dogma. And it's now acceptable in Australian courts and in our
parliaments to swear or take the oath on the Qur'an.   Seriously?

In a 2011 study by Pew Research Center, of Muslim Americans, only 56%
reported that Muslims who migrated to the US wanted to adopt American
customs and ways of life.

—We don't want to see the same scenario here.    >:(

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by issuevoter on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 8:44am

AusGeoff wrote on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 8:18am:

Correct. However, as we know, Western society has a large percentage of people who have half-baked sentiments based an altruism and tolerance. Their error is in the assumption of cultural equivalence, never acknowledging that multicultural societies exist under the umbrella of the one that is superior at tolerance.

Islam will never become tolerant of other cultures and religions while its followers do nothing to stop the atrocities. They don't even condemn the bloodshed vocally, and why should they while people say “Only the actual murderers are guilty, the others have right to believe in anything they want to believe.” Well, no they don't have that right. They have an obligation to humanity and civilisation, even if it means rejecting Islam and the crazy notion that the Koran is the word of God. No one has the right to turn a blind eye to evil which is what many Muzlums do.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by greggerypeccary on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 10:01am

AusGeoff wrote on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 8:18am:

In a 2011 study by Pew Research Center, of Muslim Americans, only 56%
reported that Muslims who migrated to the US wanted to adopt American
customs and ways of life.

To be honest, if I migrated to the US I wouldn't be too keen on adopting their customs and way of life.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by greggerypeccary on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 10:03am

issuevoter wrote on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 8:44am:

AusGeoff wrote on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 8:18am:

Wow! :o

So much irony.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 10:06am

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 10:03am:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 8:44am:

AusGeoff wrote on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 8:18am:

Wow! :o

So much irony.

Do you tolerate everything, Bbwianesque turd?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 11:00am

issuevoter wrote on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 8:44am:

AusGeoff wrote on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 8:18am:

Never mind the excitable, vibrant sons of Mohammed. It's the bloody Belgians you need to worry about...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tourist-leads-police-on-bond-style-water-taxi-chase-through-venice-k8gz7m80f

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 1:58pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 7:24am:

Frank wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 10:17pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 8:06am:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 9:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 9:38pm:

Why do the right-wingers on here continue to make excuses for these evil people?

Why must they always be apologists for these pricks by passing the buck?

I'm curious. Seriously.

I don't know, ...

Do you think it might be because they're evil people themselves?

Why do the right-wingers on here continue to make excuses for evil people?

Why must they always be apologists for evildoers?

Who are the evildoers?

The individuals you make excuses for day after day.

Not even Greg knows who he is whining about.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Sep 28^th, 2022 at 3:15am

Pakistanis in London

https://mobile.twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1574268999453614080

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 3:18pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 7:02pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 11:15pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:46pm:

Exactly!

The morally bankrupt left will choose to defend Islam over womens rights.

They would never let any other religion get away with this type of behaviour

Just be honest Baron and admit you would never dare criticise France and other countries from banning the burqa and (where bans occur), the hijab. So we know what sort of moral high ground you stand on.

The hijab has always been such a terrible weapon used against women - by *BOTH* sides: by the mullahs to keep women hidden from society, while you and Frank use it to humiliate and degrade them.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 3:48pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 3:18pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 7:02pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 11:15pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:46pm:

Exactly!

The morally bankrupt left will choose to defend Islam over womens rights.

They would never let any other religion get away with this type of behaviour

There is no reason for a Muslima to wear the hijab or the burqa in a Western country. Or for her men to expect or force her to. And I am not "using' the hijab to humiliate or degrade anyone - THEY are using it. It is as anachronistic on the streets of Western cities as wearing a koteka would be. But because Muslims flew airplanes into the WTC towers, not PNG Highlanders, the hijab is accommodated but the koteka isn't. But the streets of the West are not the place for either, just as, say, Mecca's main square is not the place for wet t-shirt competitions.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Yadda on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 4:09pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 3:18pm:

gandalf,

Why should 1st world nations [like France], who host a sizable ISLAMIC community,
tolerate moslem women publicly advertising the fact that they belong to, and support a religious philosophy, ISLAM,
whose primary religious precept [SEE BELOW ***], demands that moslems must hate and fight and kill disbelievers,
if they want to be regarded [within their own community] as bona-fide moslems.

.

Yadda wrote on Nov 16^th, 2020 at 9:56pm:

Every moslem supports his [own] ISLAMIC human right to practice his religious right, to kill those persons who offend the religion of the moslems.

......as per the PRIMARY ISLAMIC precepts, which are set out in ISLAMIC law, and in the holy and inerrant Koran.

Whenever the moslem kills an infidel, the moslem is exercising his human right,
to practice his religious right to kill the enemy of Allah.

Its called FREEDOM OF RELIGION.

THAT, is the religious right, which the moslem insists, that no one can deprive him of.

.

AN EXAMPLE ....in Australia.

----- > These are Australian moslem children who were OPENLY VERBALIZING what they have been taught about their religion, within their own homes - in Australia.

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1504079978/14#14

Quote:

'Teacher quits after primary school students threaten to behead her'

QUESTION;
Where do moslem children living in Australia get these ideas from ?

.

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1431117115/1#1

Quote:

"every moslem in Australia is a latent, wanna-be homicidal maniac"
- Yadda

QUESTION;
What about the innocent moslems ?

IMO, [logically] there are no innocent moslems [among persons who have come to the age of consent], and yet still declare themselves to be moslems.

How so [logically] ?

QUESTION;
How credible is it that a person who is devout enough to insist that he is a moslem, is unaware of what ISLAM promotes, and is unaware of what the principle tenets of ISLAM are ?

QUESTION;
How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'], ...to a philosophy which transforms human beings, into homicidal maniacs ?

QUESTION;
How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'], ...to a philosophy which claims that murdering, in the cause of religious bigotry, is a religious virtue ?

.

***

WWW search....
AL WALAA WAL BARAA, "Islamic jurists"

Essentially, it translates as;

".....loving and hating for the sake of Allah."

It means, LOVING your moslem brothers. .....as per ISLAMIC religious precepts.

It means, HATING the non-moslem. .....as per ISLAMIC religious precepts.

It means, being a moslem.

It means, OBEYING ISLAMIC LAW !

Pure Al-wala' wa-l-bara' in the Koran....

"Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred...."
Koran 58.22

"O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers."
Koran 9.23

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 7:14pm

issuevoter wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 11:20pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:50pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:46pm:

Do they support the Iranian women who burn their hijabs or the Mullahs who make them wear it?

Cut the stupidity. I have never defended any religion. They're all a pile off sh11t. The only difference is that you think your ss11t smells less than others. Much like when your own farts don't stink to you but to everyone else they're putrid.

You need to listen to what people say instead of making poo up all the time.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 7:15pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 6:57pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 8:14pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 6:07pm:

You're the one who doesn't understand what you're being told the hijab is mandatory under Islamic law there is no choice

CRAP

The only crap here comes from you.

You're still spewing crap I see

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 8:47pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 7:14pm:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 11:20pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:50pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:46pm:

Do they support the Iranian women who burn their hijabs or the Mullahs who make them wear it?

You defend Islam all the time.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 8:52pm

freediver wrote on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 8:47pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 7:14pm:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 11:20pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:50pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 5:46pm:

Do they support the Iranian women who burn their hijabs or the Mullahs who make them wear it?

You defend Islam all the time.

you'll have no trouble putting up a comment from me defending Islam then .... ::)

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 8:55pm

No need. You do it all the time. No-one needs to be convinced.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 9:43am

The fanciful notion that the hijab is a symbol of empowerment or resistance may be able to exist when the struggles of women in the Islamic world are hidden from view. It is easy to write off a handful of dissident Muslim women in the West as being disgruntled or having an axe to grind.

But when protests against the forced hijab spread from Iran to Kurdistan, Syria, Turkey, Cyprus, Greece, Germany, Chile, Britain, the US, Canada and Australia, with thousands of women and men joining the chorus of freedom, such dishonest apologetics will become harder and harder to sustain.

I asked Iranian dissident poet Roya Hakakian what she thought about the protest movement sweeping her home country and she told me: “The success of these women will enable the global community to understand Islamism in a far more nuanced way.”

Sarah Haider, the co-founder of the non-profit organisation, Ex-Muslims of North America, told me: “The struggle is about more than throwing off the hijab, it is about throwing off the rule of a theocracy that lays claim to absolute truth, one that doesn’t hesitate to brutalise those that dare disagree.”

For Western feminists, the forced veiling of women in Islamic theocracies has not been a mobilising issue. More concerned with gender parity on corporate boards, feminists in the West traditionally have shied away from criticising practices in the Islamic world for fear of being labelled Islamophobic or racist. Yet such avoidance has been able to occur only under the cloak of ignorance: if we cannot see women risking their lives to throw off the hijab, then it is much easier for us to believe the hijab is not oppressive. What the past two weeks have done is puncture that ignorance.
Clair Lehmann

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 9:58am

Frank wrote on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 3:48pm:

There is no reason for a Muslima to wear the hijab or the burqa in a Western country.

There is no "reason" for anyone to wear anything - apart from what is necessary to keep us freezing to death or dying of sun stroke. And yet we tend to accept the right of people to be able to wear what they wish without fear of persecution. That tends to happen in a free and open society - which as we all know, you don't support.

Quote:

And I am not "using' the hijab to humiliate or degrade anyone

You degrade and humiliate any woman who wears the hijab, so yeah, you do.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 10:30am

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 9:58am:

Frank wrote on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 3:48pm:

There is no reason for a Muslima to wear the hijab or the burqa in a Western country.

And I am not "using' the hijab to humiliate or degrade anyone

You degrade and humiliate any woman who wears the hijab, so yeah, you do.

Don't emote, you are not Mothra or Bbwian.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 10:56am

Its true Frank - you refer to hijabis as any one of:

- a miserable creature with no agency
- too ignorant/brainwashed to know any "better"
- deviantly flaunting symbols of oppression
- someone who is not worthy to be part of this society
- someone who is fare game for ridicule

the terms "hijab" and "hijabis" are pejoratives for you. You make it crystal clear that to wear the hijab is a form of deviancy and/or sign of ignorance or someone who has no agency. These women are nothing but caricatures to you.

So no, I am not emoting when I say you degrade and humiliate any woman who wears the hijab.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 11:43am

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

Nonsense on stilts.

Wearing a hijab in the West is ludicrous and not a little offensive. It implies that the wearer believes that Western societies are no different to Islamic ones where curtaining off supposedly alluring hair is necessary to protect oneself from being turned into cat's meat.

There is no reason hijab up except to demonstrate alertness and contant opposition. ESPECIALLY when you see that in countries where it is compulsory it is obvious instrument of subjugation and control. Why would you come to the West and still wear your symbolic leg irons? Why maintain the signs of your own oppression and subjugation?

What do you demonstrate to the people around you? That you are not one of them and never want to be. That you are fundamentally oppise their view of human dignity and autonomy.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 12:48pm

Its a piece of cloth Frank.

Jesus, get a grip.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Yadda on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 4:43pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 12:48pm:

Its a piece of cloth Frank.

Jesus, get a grip.

gandalf,

Don't followers of ISLAM claim that Jesus is a prophet of ISLAM ?

Psalms 72:1
Give the king thy judgments, O God, and thy righteousness unto the king's son.
2 He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment.
3 The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness.
4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.
....
....
17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.
18 Blessed be the LORD God, the God of Israel, who only doeth wondrous things.
19 And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.
20 The prayers of David the son of Jesse are ended.

Psalms 118:26
Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

Matthew 21:9
And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
10 And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this?
11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 4:46pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 12:48pm:

Its a piece of cloth Frank.

Jesus, get a grip.

Not just a piece of cloth. Women would not be beaten, jailed or killed if it was just a piece of cloth. Or else Muslims a fkkkn MONSTERS if they beat, jail or murder women for a piece of cloth.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 6:18pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

How much agency do hijabis generally have?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 7:34pm

freediver wrote on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 8:55pm:

No need. You do it all the time. No-one needs to be convinced.

run away fool.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Lisa Jones on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 7:40am

John Smith wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 7:34pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 8:55pm:

No need. You do it all the time. No-one needs to be convinced.

run away fool.

👆 Only an idiot would say that whilst visiting another person's place.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 7:55am

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 7:40am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 7:34pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 8:55pm:

No need. You do it all the time. No-one needs to be convinced.

run away fool.

👆 Only an idiot would say that whilst visiting another person's place.

yes, you hide.............. I'll stick to the truth.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Lisa Jones on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 8:17am

John Smith wrote on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 7:55am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 7:40am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 7:34pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 8:55pm:

No need. You do it all the time. No-one needs to be convinced.

run away fool.

👆 Only an idiot would say that whilst visiting another person's place.

yes, you hide.............. I'll stick to the truth.

👆 And that post just proves that you are not just an idiot ... you're also a delusional and ethically bankrupt idiot.

You're telling a forum owner (whilst visiting his forum) to run away. And that's after calling him a fool.

What if someone visited your place and said that to you whilst in your house? You'd kick him out within a second of him saying that.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 8:29am

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 8:17am:

You're telling a forum owner (whilst visiting his forum) to run away. And that's after calling him a fool.

thats because the forum owner IS a fool and he IS running away. The fact that he owns the forum doesn't change that.

but you keep pretending you have a clue :D :D

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 8:33am

Hilarious hijab hijinks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEEx3oUuiII

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Lisa Jones on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 8:37am

John Smith wrote on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 8:29am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 8:17am:

You're telling a forum owner (whilst visiting his forum) to run away. And that's after calling him a fool.

thats because the forum owner IS a fool and he IS running away. The fact that he owns the forum doesn't change that.

but you keep pretending you have a clue :D :D

No YOU are calling him a fool. That doesn't make him a fool.

And YOU are the one who's demanding that he runs away.

And as for the clue (which you seem to think is so elusive) ...that's unfortunately always safely embedded within the rubbish you post without engaging your brain. ::)

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Lisa Jones on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 8:41am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 8:33am:

Hilarious hijab hijinks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEEx3oUuiII

OMG! 😂🤣😆

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 9:45am

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 8:37am:

No YOU are calling him a fool. That doesn't make him a fool.

thats right. His own actions make him a fool.

I'm glad to see that you realise that.

Quote:

And YOU are the one who's demanding that he runs away.

I've made no such demand. He ran away when he made a claim he then ran away from.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Lisa Jones on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 11:44am

John Smith wrote on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 9:45am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 8:37am:

No YOU are calling him a fool. That doesn't make him a fool.

thats right. His own actions make him a fool.

I'm glad to see that you realise that.

Quote:

And YOU are the one who's demanding that he runs away.

I've made no such demand. He ran away when he made a claim he then ran away from.

Hopefully once all that alcohol wears off you'll be in a better position to take another look at this topic and quickly delete the embarrassing and illogical nonsense you've posted over the past 24 hrs. Not 1 sentence you've posted remotely describes or relates to what's being being posted at you.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 11:36pm

Wow :)

Quote:

This video is going viral on Iranian twitter. Girls at a school in Karaj are booing and kicking out the pro-regime principal. They’ve also removed their forced hijabs

In an unprecedented development, high schools in Iran are protesting too

https://twitter.com/vahid_yucesoy/status/1576959368947720192

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 11:37pm

Quote:

I’ve never seen anything like this in the Islamic Republic of Iran… schoolgirls without mandatory hejab,chanting "We don't want the Islamic Republic" & "Khamenei is a murderer, his reign is nullified.” And it’s happening in several places. #IranProtests #iran #MahsaAmini

https://twitter.com/roxanasaberi/status/1577065158962475008?cxt=HHwWgMDTuYGa7uIrAAAA

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 11:38pm

Brian_Ross_supports_the_Mullahs.jpg (132 KB | 8 )

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 11:51pm

Yasmine was married to an Al Qaeda Jihadi interesting how 9/11 was a major turning point in her life.

When muslims start questioning if Muhammad really rode a flying donkey it leads to disbelief in Islam.

The lefties like supporting idiotic beliefs as long as it isn't any other religion they always give Islam a free pass they have a lot in common with muslims who want blasphemy laws.

yasmine_002.jpg (35 KB | 6 )

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 5:17pm

Quote:

Too often the Left turn a blind eye to the plight of genuinely oppressed women for fear of creating “Islamophobia”. They celebrate Muslim veils as symbols of diversity even as women in Iran are beaten & locked up for fighting against compulsory hijab laws.

https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1577449545503383552?cxt=HHwWgIClraCAneQrAAAA

Rita was forced to wear a Hijab in Iran after the Islamic revolution.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 5:20pm

Quote:

Today in Iran, schoolgirls remove their compulsory hejab and chant “death to the dictator” while stomping on the photos of their rulers

https://twitter.com/ksadjadpour/status/1577053179224547328?cxt=HHwWgICjudng6OIrAAAA

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 7:30pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 11:44am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 9:45am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 1^st, 2022 at 8:37am:

No YOU are calling him a fool. That doesn't make him a fool.

thats right. His own actions make him a fool.

I'm glad to see that you realise that.

Quote:

And YOU are the one who's demanding that he runs away.

I've made no such demand. He ran away when he made a claim he then ran away from.

I'm not sure how your sobering up is supposed to change my outlook on what was said but I'm willing to give it a go. let me know when you're sober.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:28pm

John Smith wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 7:30pm:

I'm not sure how your sobering up is supposed to change my outlook on what was said but I'm willing to give it a go. let me know when you're sober.

Women are beaten and killed for not wearing the hijab in some Islamic countries, thick planks.

Face it, address it.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:42pm

Frank wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:28pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 7:30pm:

I'm not sure how your sobering up is supposed to change my outlook on what was said but I'm willing to give it a go. let me know when you're sober.

Women are beaten and killed for not wearing the hijab in some Islamic countries, thick planks.

Face it, address it.

women are beaten and killed every day for having husbands too ... do we ban the husband?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 10:50pm

When did Bill Maher become an Islamophobe? ::) Was it after he read the book by Yasmine Mohammed on how western liberals empower radical Islam? ::)

I see some leftists starting to realise they backed the wrong horse in defending Islam.

Quote:

‘Islamaphobia?! Phobia is irrational, my fear, and the fear of millions of women, is rational…’ @AlinejadMasih
telling it like it is on @billmaher

https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1577553082279346176?cxt=HHwWgICqufGKzOQrAAAA

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 8:38am

John Smith wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:42pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:28pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 7:30pm:

I'm not sure how your sobering up is supposed to change my outlook on what was said but I'm willing to give it a go. let me know when you're sober.

Women are beaten and killed for not wearing the hijab in some Islamic countries, thick planks.

Face it, address it.

women are beaten and killed every day for having husbands too ... do we ban the husband?

You can't be this stupid, planks (oh yes he is).

Islamic authorities are beating women because of 'incorrect' wearing of the hijab. That is not equivalent to domestic violence, ya ponce.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:30am

freediver wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 6:18pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

How much agency do hijabis generally have?

generally where? In Iran - obviously not much, in Australia, a lot more.

Arguing the degree of agency women have in wearing the hijab in a free country like Australia is a fools errand, and adds nothing to the debate. Whether its expected, even demanded by their family or not - most hijabis don't feel inconvenienced wearing it, and don't give it a second thought. Its just what they do, and it becomes part of them. Just like wearing pants outside became a part of me a very long time ago. Even though strictly speaking, I don't really have agency to choose not to wear them. At the end of the day, I am not any less of a person for doing so, nor does it prevent me carrying out my business in the way I choose. And it definitely doesn't mean I am a poor oppressed creature who needs rescuing.

And thats the point here. Why does a piece of clothing - when its worn in a free country - trigger such a rabid response by Frank's ilk? - that they are either pathetic oppressed creatures, or dangerous provocateurs, flaunting their offensive religion on us? Why should the mere sight of a simple piece of clothing automatically make people think that the wearers are something detestable who should be ridiculed?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:34am

Frank wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:28pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 7:30pm:

I'm not sure how your sobering up is supposed to change my outlook on what was said but I'm willing to give it a go. let me know when you're sober.

Women are beaten and killed for not wearing the hijab in some Islamic countries, thick planks.

Face it, address it.

Women are dehumanized and ridiculed for wearing the hijab in some western countries.

Face it, address it.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:54am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:34am:

Frank wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:28pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 7:30pm:

I'm not sure how your sobering up is supposed to change my outlook on what was said but I'm willing to give it a go. let me know when you're sober.

Women are beaten and killed for not wearing the hijab in some Islamic countries, thick planks.

Face it, address it.

Women are dehumanized and ridiculed for wearing the hijab in some western countries.

Face it, address it.

Not the same as beating and killing, is it.

They degrade themselves by wearing the hijab in the West and if they are ridiculed and told off for it they should think on it. They advertise their belief that without the hijab Western men could not resist ravishing them, that their hair has power over men and they are first and last sexual objects, not equal humans with individual agency and dignity.
Ridiculous. Of course they are ridiculed.
If they do not accept Western values the least that can be done for them is to point out their own hostility to the values of the countries they chose to live in.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 11:13am

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:54am:

If they do not accept Western values...

hmmm, you mean values like the right to wear a headscarf without fear of persecution?

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:54am:

They degrade themselves by wearing...

[insert any piece of women's attire that triggers misogynists who wish to rule over women's lives - mini-skirt, high heels, tank-top etc etc]

"they degrade themselves..." - say the mullah's in Iran enforcing mandatory hijab
"they degrade themselves..." - say ISIS terrorists banning women going outside
"they degrade themselves..." - says the wife beater
"they degrade themselves..." - says the rapist
"they degrade themselves..." - says the mysognist objecting to women playing competitive sports
"they degrade themselves..." - says pretty much all of society when women started to stand up for their rights

Its amazing that one thing that trully unites the disparate societies all over the world - is the presence of men like you constantly reminding women how ashamed they should be of themselves.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 11:20am

1. They are beaten and shamed and murdered in Muslims countries for not wearing it. You have nothing to say about that.

2. They are ridiculed for wearing it here and you are mighty exercised about that.

Anything will do for you to avoid facing 1.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 11:39am

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 11:20am:

1. They are beaten and shamed and murdered in Muslims countries for not wearing it. You have nothing to say about that.

Then you didn't read my last post.

Don't mistake my words for an attempted sugar-coating of Islamist oppression of women in muslim countries. The take home message you should have got from my last post is that misogyny takes many forms - and that crude controls over dress is just one of them. I am also not attempting to draw a moral equivalence between saying nasty things and actual physical oppression. But the common thread between them both is an appalling attitude towards women in general. In both cases men are triggered by women expressing themselves in a particular way, and their instinctive reaction is always the same - to gas-light women by telling them its really their problem, and that they should be made to feel ashamed for it.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 11:48am

my point? You don't have a leg to stand on cynically tugging the emotional strings about poor oppressed women in Iran in your campaign against the hijab - since you articulate the very same misogynistic attitudes that leads to that very sort of oppression.

In Frank's utopia, women would suffer just as many restrictions and face the same amount of oppression as women in Iran. Fact.

Because at the end of the day, Frank is no different to the Mullahs - in his disrespect for women.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by issuevoter on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 12:49pm

So Gandalf, what did you ever do that compares to the bravery of school girls under a brutal Islam? Don't you ever stop whining? And while you are answering, what is the higher authority, the Australian Constitution or the Koran? Don't bother replying, we know what you are.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63143504

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 1:03pm

Still trying your hand at grown-ups debate Issue? Awww so adorable.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 3:02pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 11:48am:

:D :D

Silly nonsense. You Muslims pretend that opposing things are equivalent.

Enforcing the hijab in the name of Islam is now the same as telling women that they do not need to - should not - believe that the hijab is necessary for their full womanhood, Islzmic or otherwise, in a free society.

But while their sisters are beaten in Muslim countries for not wearing it, they put it on in the West, a reminder for themselves and all around them, that they still believe that men in free societies are just like Muslim men and without the hijab they would be cat's meat. And that may well be the case among their Muslim men who have brought the oppressive habits of Islam with them.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 6:55pm

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 8:38am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:42pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:28pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 7:30pm:

I'm not sure how your sobering up is supposed to change my outlook on what was said but I'm willing to give it a go. let me know when you're sober.

Women are beaten and killed for not wearing the hijab in some Islamic countries, thick planks.

Face it, address it.

women are beaten and killed every day for having husbands too ... do we ban the husband?

You can't be this stupid, planks (oh yes he is).

Islamic authorities are beating women because of 'incorrect' wearing of the hijab. That is not equivalent to domestic violence, ya ponce.

So? You want to ban the hijab because women get beaten for wearing it incorrectly. Women are beaten for wearing a bikini in those same states ... when have you ever called for the banning of bikinis ?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 6:56pm

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:54am:

Not the same as beating and killing, is it.

:D :D :D :D

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 8:54pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:30am:

freediver wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 6:18pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

How much agency do hijabis generally have?

Why not? If Australian women are being forced to wear the hijab, why would you not want to know about it and defend their rights?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 9:32pm

freediver wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 8:54pm:

Why not? If Australian women are being forced to wear the hijab, why would you not want to know about it and defend their rights?

Exactly ... why should they wear a hijab when they can instead be raped with cacti.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by issuevoter on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 4:29am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 1:03pm:

Still trying your hand at grown-ups debate Issue? Awww so adorable.

Answer the question, if you are so grown up. Coward.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:12am

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 3:02pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 11:48am:

You just don't get it Frank.

You and the mullahs are in lock-step in insisting you know what is right and best for women - and then gas-lighting those women as "degrading themselves" etc - when they don't follow your sage "guidance".

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:26am

John Smith wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 6:55pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 8:38am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:42pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:28pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 7:30pm:

I'm not sure how your sobering up is supposed to change my outlook on what was said but I'm willing to give it a go. let me know when you're sober.

Women are beaten and killed for not wearing the hijab in some Islamic countries, thick planks.

Face it, address it.

women are beaten and killed every day for having husbands too ... do we ban the husband?

You can't be this stupid, planks (oh yes he is).

Islamic authorities are beating women because of 'incorrect' wearing of the hijab. That is not equivalent to domestic violence, ya ponce.

I don't want to ban it.

I just want to be able to freely say that it is oppressive and taints the wearer as either hostile to her adopted society or stupid. Also I want to be able to freely call out her male relatives and community as anachronistic little bullies who might be putting pressure on her to wear it.

The bikini as an analogy is so eyewateringly idiotic and wide of the mark that only a complete ponce like you could come up with is.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:28am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:12am:

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 3:02pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 11:48am:

Bollocks.

Women DON'T want to wear it, that's why they are protesting - and get beaten, even killed. Nobody gets beaten or killed for WANTING to wear it.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:53am

freediver wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 8:54pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:30am:

freediver wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 6:18pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

How much agency do hijabis generally have?

Why not? If Australian women are being forced to wear the hijab, why would you not want to know about it and defend their rights?

Such coercion wouldn't occur in a vacuum. If there are grown women who are physically being forced to wear the hijab, then I'd expect there to be far worse things going on that should be dealt with first. We call it domestic abuse, and yes I absolutely stand up for the right of women to not be subjected to that. Mostly though, 'coercion' is probably on the same scale as me being 'coerced' by my community to wear pants. Strictly speaking I don't have agency either in that respect, but it becomes so ingrained that the line between coercion and happily doing it voluntarily becomes very blury. And of couse you have to consider the norms and expectations individual families and particular communities have on their members. All of us have all sorts of "coercions" imposed on us by our families and communities - but mostly we don't feign outrage about them and scream about freedom and rights.

Generally though, in our free society, a woman who is not in a domestic abuse situation (that absolutely should be dealt with), a woman should be considered as having as much agency in what she wears as any of us do.

But what this is really about is the unfair standards and expectations Frank and ilk are imposing on women. They somehow know whats best for them - if they wear the hijab, then by default, there is something wrong with them. They "degrade themselves", as Frank assures us. The fact that they always seem to hone in on outward, visible symbols like the hijab to pass judgement, and not even consider the personality, attitudes or beliefs of the actual person wearing it - says it all.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:57am

Frank wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:28am:

Women DON'T want to wear it, that's why they are protesting - and get beaten, even killed.

do you think maybe thats because they are living in a country that forces them to wear it by law? Removing the law won't stop some Iranian women from continuing to wear it. Its the lack of choice they object to.

Bit different situation in Australia wouldn't you agree?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 11:09am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:53am:

freediver wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 8:54pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:30am:

freediver wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 6:18pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

How much agency do hijabis generally have?

Why not? If Australian women are being forced to wear the hijab, why would you not want to know about it and defend their rights?

Why are Iranian women burning it? What are they so upset about if it is really about female autonomy to wear the hijab?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 11:17am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:57am:

Frank wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:28am:

Women DON'T want to wear it, that's why they are protesting - and get beaten, even killed.

I think there is a lot of pressure on Muslim women in the West to conform to Muslim customs. The relationship between the sexes is very different in Muslim and Western societies. The more Islam, the more repression, especially of women.

It's not just a piece of cloth, as you would like to pretend. No hijabi girl is going to openly date a Christian or Jewish boy - or a Muslim one for that matter. Some will not even shake hands with an infidel. They are not free to live their life as long as they cover their hair and that's it, no further curtailment. No. The hijab signals the whole Islamic system of separating, fencing off females.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 2:59pm

Frank wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 11:17am:

I think there is a lot of pressure on Muslim women in the West to conform to Muslim customs.

Of course. No individual is free from the pressures their respective societies bears down on them. Unfortunately, such pressures are disproportionately more on women - always have, since the dawn of mankind. The fact that you are seemingly incapable of understanding that your condescending armchair lectures about women "degrading themselves" is an example of that very pressure - is the whole problem here.

FD seems to think that rescuing poor oppressed women from the evils of hijab is the answer - but its not. Its just yet another bloke telling women whats best for them. Thats actually the first thing we need to stamp out if we trully want to help women with their freedom and rights - stop lecturing them about what we think is best for them.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by issuevoter on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 9:18pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:53am:

freediver wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 8:54pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:30am:

freediver wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 6:18pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

How much agency do hijabis generally have?

Why not? If Australian women are being forced to wear the hijab, why would you not want to know about it and defend their rights?

The reason you disagree with Frank is not about women in Islam, it is because you don't like it when members of this Australian forum pointing out sickness running through Islam, of which the hijab is a symbol. But I suppose you have no choice since you adopted Mohammedanism. As a moderator, you should have a more objective view.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 9:20pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 2:59pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 11:17am:

I think there is a lot of pressure on Muslim women in the West to conform to Muslim customs.

I am not restricting them, bozo, you Muslims are.

You buggers bring the old country backwardness stupidity and superstition ipto your 'new' lives which are barely different to your old backward, stupid and superstitious lives.

Coz you are 'free' to stay that way, so you will. You were not free to be any other way there - but coming here you choose to be free the way you were unfree there.

Islam.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Oct 9^th, 2022 at 6:01am

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Oct 9^th, 2022 at 6:46am

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 9^th, 2022 at 7:31pm

Quote:

Women in Iran are united to spread revolution. I know what it's like to be one of them

With their hands linked together, Iranian women of every age and background have taken to the streets and online to spread revolution.

Their protests were sparked by the death of Mahsa Amini who was killed in custody after being arrested by Tehran's morality police.

I am watching it unfold from the relative safety of Australia, but I know what it's like to be one of them.

When I go online, I see the backdrop to my childhood, the streets of Iran, broken and bleeding. I see the same horrors that caused me to flee Iran repeated anew.

Although I am in another country, my breath is ragged even though this time there is no tear gas to hurt me. I am imagining my fellow protesters holding a napkin drenched in vinegar over my mouth to help me breathe after being gassed and beaten.

My generation grew up forced to repeat dehumanising chants like, "The blood in our veins is a gift to our leader" or "God protect Khomeini's movement, reduce from our lives and add to his life" every day at school. It ruined so many childhoods.

But the product of these 43 years of brainwashing is a global shout of "Woman, Life, Freedom": a revolutionary manifesto that stands for intersectionality, for the right to life and humanity, and demands the distortion of the Islamic Republic as a terrorist regime.

Now schoolgirls are burning pictures of the supreme leader taken from their books, kicking out a senior education ministry official from their school in Karaj and removing their mandatory hijabs.

Memories are like a physical pain
I was a teacher in Tehran at a prestigious university, advocating for women and children on death row and directing an art therapy project in an orphanage, but I fled persecution with nothing but my daughter Minerva and a bag in 2010.

My brother, too, left Tehran. I still can't forget the sound of his screams when the Islamists dragged him to the ground, into a van and then to their jail when he was a young photojournalist.

When he was released, his body had been crushed by their flogging, his assets confiscated or frozen.

Now he's based in London and works for the BBC.

I can't forget the teenage dissidents who chose to end their life rather than buckle beneath the jackboot of the regime.

I can't forget the voices of my students and classmates that scar the land like shrapnel.

I can't forget the sound of kissing was banned, how love, happiness and dancing were forbidden.

Each memory slams into me with physical pain. Worse still, these crimes are being repeated, re-traumatising Iran and the Iranian diaspora.

Many Iranians see no future under the regime except the possibility of more surveillance, disadvantage, discrimination, and poverty.

Often the unknown frightens us. But for Iranian people, state violence is infused in their daily life and is not an unfamiliar component. Their courage is the antidote to the dreadful desperation to survive.

My people have come to realise that for more than 43 years, they have been living on death row, on a gradual death, where the imagination of any prosperity and freedom was impossible

Memories of growing up in Iran keep flooding back to me.

From the age of six or seven, we were forced to live invisibly.

I remember the veiled body of our childhoods and being forced to go to school wearing only four regulation colours: black, brown, grey, and navy.

Since the Shia Islamists seized power in 1979 there have been many protests against the compulsory hijab.

more here- https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-09/iran-protest-women-standing-up-for-rights/101491230

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 9^th, 2022 at 7:34pm

Quote:

Iranian police accused of murdering schoolgirl protester Nika Shahkarami and ordering her family to say she killed herself

The mother and other relatives of a girl who died during protests in Iran have been threatened into making "forced confessions" about the 16-year-old's death, according to reports by local media and the BBC.

Nika Shahkarami, who lived in Tehran with her mother, vanished during protests in the capital over the death of another young woman, Mahsa Amini, who died last month in police custody.

Nika was missing for a week before her body was found in a Tehran street and returned to her family, Tasnim news agency reported, adding relatives had not received official word on how she died.

Foreign-based Iranian activists allege she died in police custody, leading to her photo circulating online and her name being used as hashtag in posts associated with the protest movement.

However, authorities have denied any wrongdoing.

In a video sent on Thursday to foreign-based opposition media, Nika's mother, Nasrin Shahkarami, accused authorities of murdering her daughter and using threats to force her to confess that her daughter's death was a suicide.

"I saw my daughter's body myself," Ms Shahkarami said in a video sent on Thursday to Radio Farda, a US-funded media outlet.

"The back of her head showed she had suffered a very severe blow as her skull had caved in. That's how she was killed."

Nika's uncle Mohsen and aunt Atash were detained by authorities after Atash posted messages online about her niece's death and spoke to the media.

On Wednesday night, state media broadcast an interview with Atash, saying that Nika was killed "falling from a building".

more here- https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-07/nika-shakarami-iran-protester-family-forced-to-lie-about-death/101510766

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by issuevoter on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 8:31am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 2:59pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 11:17am:

I think there is a lot of pressure on Muslim women in the West to conform to Muslim customs.

Yes, but its alright for Islam to lecture the free world and accuse us of satanism, while teaching their children that they are God's chosen people.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 9:32am

Frank wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 9:20pm:

I am not restricting them

Strawman.

We all know how you cynically champion western values for the sole purpose of denigrating non-westerners/non-whites. Of course we are well aware of your hypocricy - that you would only ever use these values to feign outrage at rights violations imposed by brown people - and that it would never ever extend to criticising other forms of rights violations - like the French hijab and burqa bans. Your *ACTUAL* views on western liberal views on freedom are perfectly articulated in my signature - so lets not pretend that you hold any sort of moral superiority on this - ok?

But thats not really the issue here. Its your caveman attitudes towards women thats the issue. Such that if and when an anti-Islam mullah equivalent came in and did exactly what the mullah's in Iran do - ie tell women what they can and can't wear, and enact laws to effect that - you would, at the very least, not raise even a peep of opposition to such "restrictions". And most likely you would be enthusiastically cheering it on.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 9:36am

issuevoter wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 9:18pm:

Do you also believe women "degrade" themselves because they wear a particular style of head dress?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Bobby. on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 9:39am

Why is showing some hair on your head immoral?

Is it immoral for men too?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 10:32am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 9:32am:

Frank wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 9:20pm:

I am not restricting them

Nonsense. The hijab, Islam and it's values are not about brown skin. Don't try that stupid, dishonest angle.
A white bint, a white jihadi is as bad a a brown or black one.

That I hold Western values and culture in higher regard than Islam or Ju-ju is not a condemnation or a gotcha. Of course I do.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 10:41am

Frank wrote on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 10:32am:

That I hold Western values and culture in higher regard...

But thats a lie Frank - a cunning ruse you have come up with to further your racist agenda.

Anyone who has any doubts as to Frank's disdain for western values - needs only read the quote in my signature (written by Frank by the way).

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 10:45am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 10:41am:

Frank wrote on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 10:32am:

That I hold Western values and culture in higher regard...

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/nazi-hate-symbols-now-banned-victoria

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 11:03am

Quote:

...in recognition of its role in inciting antisemitism and hate.

and fair enough IMO.

The hijab doesn't incite anything - except frothing at the mouth by Islamophobes like Frank. But banning something because of how much it triggers the bigots, is not really a good justification.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 11:28am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 11:03am:

Quote:

...in recognition of its role in inciting antisemitism and hate.

Islam is as anti Jewish as Nazism, it's just not as organised.
Not is Islam is a friend or ally of Western civilisation but its foe. IS was the most recent, vivid demonstration of that.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Bobby. on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 2:30pm

Gandalf,

Why is showing some hair on your head immoral?

Is it immoral for men too?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 7:54pm

iran_un.jpg (56 KB | 4 )

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 8:00pm

The only 2 LGBTQ activists in Iran are on death row. This is the Islam the morally bankrupt left support.

Quote:

Just look at the faces of these Iranian women's rights activists when @andrewdoyle_com
asks them about Western feminists that think the face veil is "empowering". It tells you everything you need to know. Their response is well worth listening to.

https://twitter.com/GSpellchecker/status/1579180529966276608?cxt=HHwWgIDTzeeUsOorAAAA

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 10:19pm

The criminal Iranian mullahs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V48UGvN2ZJ4

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by AusGeoff on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 12:53am

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 8:00pm:

The only 2 LGBTQ activists in Iran are on death row. This is the Islam the morally bankrupt left support.

Just look at the faces of these Iranian women's rights activists when @andrewdoyle_com
asks them about Western feminists that think the face veil is "empowering". It tells you everything you need to know. Their response is well worth listening to.

https://twitter.com/GSpellchecker/status/1579180529966276608?cxt=HHwWgIDTzeeUsOorAAAA

Thanks for that link. A very telling interview.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 8:07am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:53am:

freediver wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 8:54pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:30am:

freediver wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 6:18pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

How much agency do hijabis generally have?

Why not? If Australian women are being forced to wear the hijab, why would you not want to know about it and defend their rights?

And how do you expect to liberate women in the privacy of their own home while insisting they remain oppressed in public spaces?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Bobby. on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 9:11am

Bobby. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 2:30pm:

Gandalf,

Why is showing some hair on your head immoral?

Is it immoral for men too?

Gandalf won't answer me so I resorted to Google.
I don't know where it says that it's moral to murder a woman who
has a bit of her hair showing?

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/6244/why-do-women-cover-their-hair

Praise be to Allah.

Muslim women cover their hair because Allah has commanded them to do so, and it is not permissible for them to go against what He says and disobey His command. Allah has only commanded them to do this because there is great wisdom in it.

Part of that wisdom is that it protects a woman’s honour from the “human wolves” who are looking for easy prey to attack and devour, and a morsel cannot be eaten unless it is prepared and ready – which is what we see in those woman who make a display of themselves, who by their appearance are calling those wolves to come and take whatever they want!

Confirmation of this is to be found in the words of Allah (interpretation of the meaning):

“… That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed…” [al-Ahzab 33:59].

If a woman covers herself , then immoral and corrupt men will know that this is not part of their prey, thus Allah will protect them and take care of them.

Allah and His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) have issued a stern warning to women who make a display of themselves. An example of this is:

Abu Hurayrah said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There are two types of the people of Hell whom I have not seen: a people with whips like the tails of cattle, with which they beat the people, and women who are clothed but naked, walking with an enticing gait and with their heads looking like the humps of camels, leaning to one side. They will not enter Paradise and will not even smell its fragrance, although its fragrance can be detected from such and such a distance.” (Narrated by Muslim, 2128).

A woman [or a man] should not try to comprehend Islamic rulings with her reason – which is unable to encompass the wisdom of Shari’ah. She should know that whatever Allah has enjoined upon her contains nothing but goodness and happiness for her, her family and society as a whole.

It is known that a woman’s uncovering her hair makes her more attractive to men, which could lead to them forming hopes about her and committing immoral actions.

Islam wants society to be clean, with no provocation of desires, outrage or uncovering of women’s charms – which include their hair – which can lead to others being tempted by her and which opens the door to evil and its people.

We need to point out again that Islam means submitting to Allah. The believer follows the command of Allah even if he does not know the wisdom behind it or he does not find anything to convince his reason for it, because his obedience of his Lord and his submission to His command take priority over all other things, and worship is based on obedience and submission.

We ask Allah to show us the truth and help us to follow it, and to show us falsehood and help us to avoid it.

And Allah knows best.

Why Do Women Cover Their Hair?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 9:21am

freediver wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 8:07am:

And how do you expect to liberate women in the privacy of their own home while insisting they remain oppressed in public spaces?

You've lost me FD (now there's a surprise).

Where am I trying to a) liberate women in their own home and b) insist they remain oppressed in public spaces? Are we talking about Iran or Australia?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 9:27am

Bobby. wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 9:11am:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 2:30pm:

Gandalf,

Why is showing some hair on your head immoral?

Is it immoral for men too?

Typical salafist nonsense. Best stay away from islamqa

Its not immoral, by the way.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 9:28am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 9:21am:

freediver wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 8:07am:

And how do you expect to liberate women in the privacy of their own home while insisting they remain oppressed in public spaces?

You've lost me FD (now there's a surprise).

Where am I trying to a) liberate women in their own home and b) insist they remain oppressed in public spaces? Are we talking about Iran or Australia?

As far as the hijab is concerned, what's the difference?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Bobby. on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 9:31am

Bobby. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 2:30pm:

Gandalf,

Why is showing some hair on your head immoral?

Is it immoral for men too?

Still don't have an answer about men?

What if a poofter has nice hair and another poofter sees it?
Could it lead to immorality?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Bobby. on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 9:32am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 9:27am:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 9:11am:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 2:30pm:

Gandalf,

Why is showing some hair on your head immoral?

Is it immoral for men too?

Typical salafist nonsense. Best stay away from islamqa

Its not immoral, by the way.

Then why the murder?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 9:56am

No one is claiming the murder of the Iranian girl was anything Islamic Bobby. Otherwise, the mullah's presumably wouldn't be trying to cover it up and deny it.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Dnarever on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 10:03am

Quote:

Hijab, a symbol of oppression.

In the wrong hands a symbol for “good fortune” or “well-being" can become a symbol of oppression.

In this society the Hijab is being used as a symbol in this manner however in many more free Muslim countries where it is optional the majority of woman wear a Hijab by choice and it is no more a symbol of oppression than is a sausage roll (in most cultures).

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 10:41am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 9:21am:

freediver wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 8:07am:

And how do you expect to liberate women in the privacy of their own home while insisting they remain oppressed in public spaces?

You've lost me FD (now there's a surprise).

Where am I trying to a) liberate women in their own home and b) insist they remain oppressed in public spaces? Are we talking about Iran or Australia?

You insist we should not concern ourselves with whether these women are being forced to wear a hijab in public, because we should instead concern ourselves with eliminating domestic abuse.

It seems like a curious strategy to me, like one from a person who likes to pretend to care about their plight, while doing what they can to make an improvement in their plight impossible.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Dnarever on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 10:48am

freediver wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 8:07am:

And how do you expect to liberate women in the privacy of their own home while insisting they remain oppressed in public spaces?

That's easy just don't permit them to leave the house of course.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 12:10pm

freediver wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 10:41am:

Explain to me how exactly you are going to investigate whether any given woman - presumably independent of any other consideration - is a victim of abuse via the forced wearing of the hijab? Invade their privacy and start interrogating them? What do you propose FD - are you going to confront a woman in the street and start telling her- "oh you poor thing, do tell me about all that abuse you must be suffering" - *PURELY* on the basis that she has a hijab on?

For you and Frank, wearing the hijab is, by default, a sign that something is amiss, and must necessarily mean there is something wrong with the woman. Whether its that she is a victim of abuse, or that she is making some unacceptable political statement. This is the problem. Women do not ask for, or need, such stereotypical preconceived notions thrust upon them. They have the right to be accepted and respected for who they are - not what they wear.

If we are weighing up whether or not a woman is a victim of domestic abuse, the mere sight of her in a headscarf alone should not factor into that consideration.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Bobby. on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 3:45pm

Hi Gandalf,
is Jacinda showing enough hair that she would have been murdered in Iran?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 4:33pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 12:10pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 10:41am:

Are you suggesting domestic abuse is difficult to address? Is that why you want to ignore women being forced to wear the hijab?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Dnarever on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 5:05pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 3:45pm:

Hi Gandalf,
is Jacinda showing enough hair that she would have been murdered in Iran?

An example where wearing a Hijab is a symbol of freedom. Why do you want to limit that freedom Bobby ?

This does in fact show that although there is a big problem in that country it isn't really the Hajib it is the people suppressing the women in that country.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Bobby. on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 5:08pm

Dnarever wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 5:05pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 3:45pm:

Hi Gandalf,
is Jacinda showing enough hair that she would have been murdered in Iran?

But I can see some hair -
that's a good enough reason for her to be murdered by the morality police.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Dnarever on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 5:21pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 5:08pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 5:05pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 3:45pm:

Hi Gandalf,
is Jacinda showing enough hair that she would have been murdered in Iran?

But I can see some hair -
that's a good enough reason for her to be murdered by the morality police.

Quote:

But I can see some hair -

I am very pleased that at least you are not bald.

Assuming that you didn't pull down your zipper, that I just don't want to know.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Dnarever on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 5:24pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 5:08pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 5:05pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 3:45pm:

Hi Gandalf,
is Jacinda showing enough hair that she would have been murdered in Iran?

But I can see some hair -
that's a good enough reason for her to be murdered by the morality police.

Quote:

that's a good enough reason for her to be murdered by the morality police.

The military police of NZ are normally a tad more casual than that.

Different story if she screwed up her Haka or missed an all blacks game.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Bobby. on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 5:48pm

Dnarever wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 5:24pm:

The military police of NZ are normally a tad more casual than that.

Different story if she screwed up her Haka or missed an all blacks game.

A young woman murdered for showing some hair
is no laughing matter.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 12^th, 2022 at 8:13pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 12:10pm:

If we are weighing up whether or not a woman is a victim of domestic abuse, the mere sight of her in a headscarf alone should not factor into that consideration.

Your allah condones wife beating if you fear disobedience.

Quote:

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.
https://legacy.quran.com/4/34

Your prophet said this

Quote:

Umar (May Allah be pleased with him) reported that:
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, "No man shall be asked for the reason of beating his wife".
https://sunnah.com/riyadussalihin:68

What did Keysar Trad say?

Quote:

The President of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils, Keysar Trad, has apologised for condoning domestic violence as a 'last resort', calling his explanation of the Quran 'clumsy'.

The comments led to widespread condemnation, with Mr Trad failing in his first attempt to backtrack.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/keysar-trad-apologises-for-clumsy-domestic-violence-comments/gh330qqln

If a muslimah is wearing hijab i would say it's fair to believe she agrees with allah in 4/34 that wife beating is acceptable.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 12^th, 2022 at 8:15pm

The Islamic regime shooting protestors.

If you protest against being ruled by mad mullahs under sharia law some dopey leftist might call you an Islamophobe.

Quote:

Watch how the savage Islamic Republic thugs have been shooting at innocent people of #Sanandaj in the past few days

https://twitter.com/AlinejadMasih/status/1579938412031016961?cxt=HHwWgoDUga3niO0rAAAA

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 9:58am

freediver wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 4:33pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 12:10pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 10:41am:

Are you suggesting domestic abuse is difficult to address? Is that why you want to ignore women being forced to wear the hijab?

I'm suggesting the presence of a hijab per se should not automatically be assumed to be suspicious - vis a vis domestic abuse. Are you seriously suggesting it should?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 10:35pm

Quote:

Iran protests: Alarm at crackdown by security forces in Kurdish city

Human rights activists have expressed alarm at a crackdown on protests in a Kurdish-populated city in western Iran.

Amnesty International said there were reports that security forces had used firearms indiscriminately in Sanandaj.

Kurdish group Hengaw posted a video which it said showed police shooting at homes in the city and another in which gunfire and cries could be heard.

It reported that at least five civilians had been killed and 400 injured across the region since Sunday.

But it warned that the death toll might be higher because authorities were disrupting local internet and mobile networks.

Protests against the clerical establishment have swept across Iran since the death three weeks ago of Mahsa Amini, a Kurdish woman from the western city of Saqqez who fell into a coma after being detained by morality police in Tehran for allegedly violating the strict hijab law.

The unrest is now considered the most serious challenge to the Islamic Republic since its inception in 1979.

Iran's leaders have accused foreign enemies and exiled opposition groups of fomenting "riots" that they will not tolerate.

How Iran’s economic woes created conditions ripe for protests
Mahsa Amini's family receiving death threats
Videos show Iran teenager protesting before death

Hengaw reported on Tuesday that over the past three days protests had taken place in 10 areas of Kurdistan, Kermanshah and West Azerbaijan provinces, with Sanandaj the epicentre of the unrest and the crackdown by authorities.

The Norway-based group posted videos which it said showed intense clashes between protesters and security forces in the city on Monday night. Repeated gunfire can be heard in the footage, as well as cries and shouts.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63218965

These protests have been going for a month.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 10:38pm

The younger generation of Iranians don't really care for Islam.

They don't believe Muhammad rode a flying donkey called Buraq.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buraq

Quote:

A girls' school in Iran brought a member of the IRGC-run Basij paramilitary to speak to students. The girls welcomed the speaker by taking off their headscarves & chanting "get lost, Basiji".

Teenage girls have been at the forefront of protests for days.

https://twitter.com/KianSharifi/status/1577543177925435395?cxt=HHwWhoCxobDKx-QrAAAA

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Oct 16^th, 2022 at 9:48am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 9:58am:

freediver wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 4:33pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 12:10pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 10:41am:

Are you suggesting domestic abuse is difficult to address? Is that why you want to ignore women being forced to wear the hijab?

I'm suggesting the presence of a hijab per se should not automatically be assumed to be suspicious - vis a vis domestic abuse. Are you seriously suggesting it should?

Are you trying to change your story again Gandalf? You do like to pick and choose when Muslim women should be have their rights and freedoms protected.

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 1:31pm:

Did you ever consider maybe, just maybe now they are free from the yoke of their brute husbands...

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 17^th, 2022 at 1:12pm

freediver wrote on Oct 16^th, 2022 at 9:48am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 9:58am:

freediver wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 4:33pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 12:10pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 10:41am:

Are you suggesting domestic abuse is difficult to address? Is that why you want to ignore women being forced to wear the hijab?

I'm suggesting the presence of a hijab per se should not automatically be assumed to be suspicious - vis a vis domestic abuse. Are you seriously suggesting it should?

Did you ever consider maybe, just maybe now they are free from the yoke of their brute husbands...

pathetic attempt at deflection.

try again:
Are you seriously suggesting the presence of a hijab per se should automatically be assumed to be suspicious vis a vis domestic abuse?

If not, what is the criteria for determining which women are forced to wear the hijab and which are not? You do acknowledge that there are some hijabis who are not coerced right?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 7:25am

The 'criteria' is whether or not they are being coerced. Have you now decided that it does matter after all?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 10:19am

Lets play FD's favourite game of repeat myself until he stops deflecting:

here it is again:
Are you seriously suggesting the presence of a hijab per se should automatically be assumed to be suspicious vis a vis domestic abuse?

If not, what is the criteria for determining which women are forced to wear the hijab and which are not?

I even got the crayons out to help you understand what I'm actually asking.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 12:16pm

Are you suggesting there is some other criteria for determining whether they have been coerced, other than whether they have been coerced?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm

Brilliant FD.

Let me guess - if someone asks you how you know a particular woman is being coerced to wear the hijab - your answer is "because she is being coerced" - right? FD logic at its finest.

Do you think the presence of a hijab per se should automatically be assumed to be suspicious vis a vis domestic abuse?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 4:44pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

https://mobile.twitter.com/EvaVlaar/status/1582040827135610880

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

Do you think it matters whether they are coerced Gandalf, or this this just a rhetorical question?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 6:15pm

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

Do you think it matters whether they are coerced Gandalf, or this this just a rhetorical question?

;D ;D ;D ;D

Funny how everytime fd's stupidity is highlighted after pages of his arguing his position is sound, his response is always along the lines of 'it doesn't matter anyway as it doesn't change anything'. ::)

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 6:37pm

John Smith wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

Do you think it matters whether they are coerced Gandalf, or this this just a rhetorical question?

Gandalf was the one who suggested we should not bother finding out if these women are coerced into wearing the hijab. Now he demands to know.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 7:06pm

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 6:37pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

Do you think it matters whether they are coerced Gandalf, or this this just a rhetorical question?

Gandalf was the one who suggested we should not bother finding out if these women are coerced into wearing the hijab. Now he demands to know.

Did he? Or are you pretending he said something he didn't say again?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 8:52pm

Here it is John:

freediver wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 8:54pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:30am:

freediver wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 6:18pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

How much agency do hijabis generally have?

Why not? If Australian women are being forced to wear the hijab, why would you not want to know about it and defend their rights?

And here is you responding:

John Smith wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 9:32pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 8:54pm:

Why not? If Australian women are being forced to wear the hijab, why would you not want to know about it and defend their rights?

Exactly ... why should they wear a hijab when they can instead be raped with cacti.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by AusGeoff on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 9:12pm

Of course the enforced wearing of Muslim veils is coercive.

Hijab in Iran: A cultural product or ideological coercion?.

Quote:

According to law, women can only be present in public if her body is covered
within the limits of the prescribed standards, otherwise she will be prosecuted.
In addition, anyone from the police all the way down to ordinary citizens are
given the right to remark and counter women who do not follow the dress code
standards.

Prosecution = coercion. End of story. >:(

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by issuevoter on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 9:16pm

You Leftist will say anything to support your bogus concept of religious tolerance. Thousands of women in Iran say the Hijab is a symbol of oppression, but somehow they are wrong and complacent Lefitists hiding behind the Australian constitution are right.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 10:26am

Doctor who told married Muslim woman to remove veil handed nine-month suspension

A doctor who asked a Muslim woman to remove her veil three times has been suspended. Dr Keith Wolverson has been banned from working for nine months after a misconduct panel found his actions were 'deplorable'.

The medic, who has been a doctor for more than 25 years, committed a string of acts which amounted to misconduct while working in Staffordshire and Derby. It included asking the married woman to remove her face covering, while the doctor went on to criticise the English speaking skills of 15 of his patients.

"I think this is something people are frightened to talk about now, and I think this is a big problem, and we don't talk about these things and they get misconstrued." At a hearing earlier this year, Dr Wolverson - who qualified as a medical professional in 1996 - was found guilty of or admitted to a combined 17 of a total 28 charges of misconduct.

Some of the charges - all of which date from January to May, 2018 - related to his work at the Royal Stoke, both as a locum, or temporary doctor, and at Derby Urgent Care Centre. One incident saw him repeat a request to a Muslim woman, named as Mrs Q, to take off her veil three times during a consultation on May 13, 2018.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 8:14pm

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 8:52pm:

Here it is John:

Sometimes I think you're as stupid as bobby

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 8:59pm

Do you agree with this John?

Quote:

Arguing the degree of agency women have in wearing the hijab in a free country like Australia is a fools errand, and adds nothing to the debate.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 12:54pm

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

Do you think it matters whether they are coerced Gandalf, or this this just a rhetorical question?

Of course it matters FD - coercion is bad.

The question is, how are you going to find out? Do you simply look at a woman who is veiled and reflexively assume, without any other evidence, that she is being coerced? (hint: thats just a different way of asking you the same question I've been asking you for about a month).

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 1:25pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 12:54pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

Do you think it matters whether they are coerced Gandalf, or this this just a rhetorical question?

Strong community expectations and pressure to conform to the Muslim cultural norms of other countries rather than go the norms of their 'own' country, Australia - is that coercion? Frowning upon the cultural norms of their 'own' country, Australia, to which they CHOSE to come to, leaving their own Muslim countries behind - what's the word for that? Two faced insincerity? Opportunistic hypocrisy? Yeah-but-no-but?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 1:58pm

Frank, people like you will never understand that even if in some instances the hijab symbolizes oppression or hypocricy or whatever - that is not a good justification for demonizing every single woman who wears the hijab.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 2:39pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 1:58pm:

Nobody is 'demonised'. Check the reflex emotionally incontinent language.

I think religious face covering like the burqa and niqab have no place in Australia, Europe, the Americas and I would ban them and let all would be immigrant know that they would have to discard them in Australia. Even in Muslim countries they are eternal reminders of how primitive and stuck Islam and its gruesome bearded sons are.

The hijab is a milder version of them but the psychology and the philosophy and religious DOGMA behind it is the same. I find it ridiculous and preposterous that young Muslim girls put it on but you can still see their panty lines under their tight jeans. It's a ridiculous, mindless anachronistic gesture. If someone mocks them or tells them they are stupid or ridiculous for wearing it is not demonisation.

And before do your customary switcheroo to the Jews or Hindus - the police are beating up Jews or Hindus for not going hasidic, or turbaned or wigged or whatever. But police in Muslim countries beat and even kill women for not wearing the hijab or burqa.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 9:48am

Spot the mismatch:

"Nobody is 'demonised'."

"It's [the hijab] a ridiculous, mindless anachronistic gesture."

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by issuevoter on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 12:32pm

Its not just a symbol of oppression. Societies that demand women cover themselves, harbour several nasty traits including male chauvinism and sexual repression and associated guilt complexes.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 12:49pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 9:48am:

Spot the mismatch:

"Nobody is 'demonised'."

"It's [the hijab] a ridiculous, mindless anachronistic gesture."

You sound like a trans activist, gandi: any disagreement and deviation from your assessment of the hijab is 'demonisation.
No disagreement or rejection, no tittering or scorn. It's complete acceptance or demonisation. It's good or evil. Manichaeism lives on in the Islamic mind.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 1:23pm

Frank wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 12:49pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 9:48am:

Spot the mismatch:

"Nobody is 'demonised'."

"It's [the hijab] a ridiculous, mindless anachronistic gesture."

Listen to yourself. You are the one here who rejects any disagreement over your assessment of the hijab - not me. Its "ridiculous", "anachronistic" and/or representative of repression - and nothing else. Its YOU who refuses to acknowledge any alternative - like the independent, educated woman who wears it freely, and has not a thought in the world about portraying oppression or causing offence. I on the other hand fully acknowledge that it can and absolutely is a symbol of oppression in many contexts. But just because I have the temerity to dare suggest it might not be the case in all situations - and that (shock horror), it shouldn't be assumed to be a symbol of oppression or anachronistic whenever you see it - I'm the one who gets labelled rigid and uncompromising on the topic. Go figure.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 3:39pm

The hijab has meaning. What does it mean, and what does it mean to mean?

“The veil deliberately marks women as private and restricted property, nonpersons. The veil sets women apart from men and apart from the world; it restrains them, confines them, grooms them for docility. A mind can be cramped just as a body may be, and a Muslim veil blinkers both your vision and your destiny. It is the mark of a kind of apartheid, not the domination of a race but of a sex.”

― Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Also, don't signal to me in the public sphere that you are a devout this or that. Keep it to yourself. In an orchestra everyone wears the same plain black clothes because what is important is the music they make together, not the various expressions of their individual devotions or beliefs. That is NOT why they are there. And so the same way to a large extent with the public space. Keep your beliefs to yourself, dont parade them every time you leave the house.

Also, If I went to a Muslim country you would expect me and my travelling party to observe and respect the local values, customs, ways of dressing and comportment. But that expectation, strangely, doesn't extend to Muslims visiting or living in Western infidel countries. Then it is the infidels who must observe and accommodate the Muslims' way of dressing and comportment. The West must accommodate you, you must not accommodate the West, not even in the West.

That's what the hijab means and means to mean.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 3:40pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 1:23pm:

Its YOU who refuses to acknowledge any alternative - like the independent, educated woman who wears it freely, and has not a thought in the world about portraying oppression or causing offence.

Name one.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 1:47pm

Frank wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 3:39pm:

The West must accommodate you, you must not accommodate the West, not even in the West.

Equivalence fail.

Muslim countries rarely demand that foreign women don the veil in their country - and it would be unreasonable if they did. It would be just as unreasonable as you and your ilk demanding foreign women in Australia to discard the veil.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 1:51pm

Frank wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 3:40pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 1:23pm:

Its YOU who refuses to acknowledge any alternative - like the independent, educated woman who wears it freely, and has not a thought in the world about portraying oppression or causing offence.

Name one.

Thats you refusing to aknowledge any possible alternative right there. No further elaboration needed.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 2:49pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 1:47pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 3:39pm:

The West must accommodate you, you must not accommodate the West, not even in the West.

Equivalence fail.

Muslim countries rarely demand that foreign women don the veil in their country - and it would be unreasonable if they did.

Nonsense and you know it.
Afganistan, Iran, Saudi the cops will enforce it. Elsewhere you'd be harassed and groped constantly by men if you are not covered up.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 10^th, 2022 at 2:32pm

Frank wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 2:49pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 1:47pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 3:39pm:

The West must accommodate you, you must not accommodate the West, not even in the West.

Equivalence fail.

Muslim countries rarely demand that foreign women don the veil in their country - and it would be unreasonable if they did.

Nonsense and you know it.
Afganistan, Iran, Saudi the cops will enforce it.

aaaand pretty much nowhere else in the muslim world (barring a handful of isolated jurisdictions within countries). Thats what I mean by "rarely". But regardless, its not acceptable - just as you and your ilk wanting to enforce female head-dress laws in the west is not acceptable. Two wrongs do not make a right!

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 4:10pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 12:54pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

Do you think it matters whether they are coerced Gandalf, or this this just a rhetorical question?

Of course it matters FD - coercion is bad.

The question is, how are you going to find out?

Brace yourself Gandalf. This might be a difficult concept for a Muslim.

Ask them.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 5:56pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 10^th, 2022 at 2:32pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 2:49pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 1:47pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 3:39pm:

The West must accommodate you, you must not accommodate the West, not even in the West.

Equivalence fail.

Muslim countries rarely demand that foreign women don the veil in their country - and it would be unreasonable if they did.

Nonsense and you know it.
Afganistan, Iran, Saudi the cops will enforce it.

You forgot this bit gandi:

Elsewhere you'd be harassed and groped constantly by men if you are not covered up.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 2:45pm

freediver wrote on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 4:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 12:54pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

Do you think it matters whether they are coerced Gandalf, or this this just a rhetorical question?

Of course it matters FD - coercion is bad.

The question is, how are you going to find out?

Brace yourself Gandalf. This might be a difficult concept for a Muslim.

Ask them.

Presumably you think the mere sight of a woman in a hijab alone is sufficient grounds to "just ask them" if they are being oppressed?

Thats the key question (just asked in yet another different way) that you continually refuse to answer FD. If it is so, then that would be the most utterly ridiculous thing I've heard.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 2:52pm

Frank wrote on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 5:56pm:

You forgot this bit gandi:

Elsewhere you'd be harassed and groped constantly by men if you are not covered up.

Thats quite a heroic claim Frank. Literally millions of non-muslim women visit muslim countries every year - the vast majority of them don't wear hijab while they are there (think Indonesia, Egypt, Turkey...). It would be quite a revelation indeed to find out that this tourism continues - seemingly unabated - despite the fact that these women are all getting "harassed and groped constantly" while they are there.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Bobby. on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 2:59pm

Iran used to be a groovy place:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-4148684/Stunning-photos-reveal-life-Iran-revolution.html

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 4:14pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 2:52pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 5:56pm:

You forgot this bit gandi:

Elsewhere you'd be harassed and groped constantly by men if you are not covered up.

Indonesia
https://theculturetrip.com/asia/indonesia/articles/a-guide-to-indonesia-for-solo-female-travelers/

Will I be harassed in Egypt?
Unfortunately, the short answer is yes. Harassment drops off a cliff for women rocking grey hair, but women are very likely to run into some sexual and verbal harassment. Blue-eyed travellers, black travellers and travellers with curvier body-shapes seem to attract more. Most harassment tends to come from groups of young men loitering on street corners shouting obscenities as you walk past. This is wearying, though not usually particularly threatening. Verbal harassment notches up the creepy-index when it involves men trailing you down the street. Physical harassment is more likely to occur in crowded, ‘trapped-in’ situations such as public transport.

As for that other hassling that Egypt is famous for – the souvenir-tat vendors, boat and camel touts hustling for business – take comfort in the fact that they’re equal opportunity hasslers: they’ll happily harass both male and female tourists until you crack and buy that toy pyramid and gold glitter snow globe.

Karnalistan:

Strong Islamic codes of dress and behaviour exist in Pakistan. Avoid wearing shorts or short-sleeved clothes. Avoid physical contact between men and women in public. Women may be harassed, especially if they're alone.
https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/destinations/asia/pakistan

Etc

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Bobby. on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 4:23pm

Thanks Frank,
what a terrible place:

https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/destinations/asia/pakistan

Pakistan Local laws

Don't use or carry illegal drugs. Penalties for drug offences are severe. They include the death penalty, large fines and long prison sentences.

Domestic violence against women is common in Pakistan. Standards of domestic violence support are far lower than similar services available in Australia. You should consider these risks if you're planning travel to Pakistan.

Corporal punishment applies for some offences, including robbery, public drunkenness, and drinking alcohol if you're Muslim. Be aware of religious sensitivities. It's illegal to import alcohol or pork products. It's illegal to try to convert a Muslim or encourage them to abandon their religion.

Same-sex relations are illegal. It's also illegal for unmarried heterosexual couples to live together.

Blasphemy can attract the death penalty. Those charged with blasphemy can spend years in prison, undergo lengthy trial processes and are in constant danger from members of the public or prisoners. If you have made public comments, including on social media, that may be construed as blasphemous you should not travel to Pakistan.

Strong Islamic codes of dress and behaviour exist in Pakistan. Avoid wearing shorts or short-sleeved clothes. Avoid physical contact between men and women in public. Women may be harassed, especially if they're alone.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by issuevoter on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 5:23pm

Isn't Islam a great religion? Just makes you want to run out and convert, "Ali akbar!"

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 5:33pm

freediver wrote on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 4:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 12:54pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

Do you think it matters whether they are coerced Gandalf, or this this just a rhetorical question?

Of course it matters FD - coercion is bad.

The question is, how are you going to find out?

Brace yourself Gandalf. This might be a difficult concept for a Muslim.

Ask them.

How many have you asked? ::)

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 17^th, 2022 at 9:49am

John Smith wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 5:33pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 4:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 12:54pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

Do you think it matters whether they are coerced Gandalf, or this this just a rhetorical question?

Of course it matters FD - coercion is bad.

The question is, how are you going to find out?

Brace yourself Gandalf. This might be a difficult concept for a Muslim.

Ask them.

How many have you asked? ::)

I still can't work out if FD is so delusional that he seriously thinks its justifiable to walk up to a woman in the street, and ask (presumably in genuine concern for their well-being) if they are being oppressed - on no other evidence other than the fact that they are wearing a hijab, or...

if he simply hasn't thought this through properly.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Nov 17^th, 2022 at 2:10pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 17^th, 2022 at 9:49am:

John Smith wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 5:33pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 4:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 12:54pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

Do you think it matters whether they are coerced Gandalf, or this this just a rhetorical question?

Of course it matters FD - coercion is bad.

The question is, how are you going to find out?

Brace yourself Gandalf. This might be a difficult concept for a Muslim.

Ask them.

How many have you asked? ::)

lets pretend for a half second that his intentions are genuine and he is asking out of concern for the woman, I want to know how many he has asked.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Nov 17^th, 2022 at 3:27pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 17^th, 2022 at 9:49am:

John Smith wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 5:33pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 4:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 12:54pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

Do you think it matters whether they are coerced Gandalf, or this this just a rhetorical question?

Of course it matters FD - coercion is bad.

The question is, how are you going to find out?

Brace yourself Gandalf. This might be a difficult concept for a Muslim.

Ask them.

How many have you asked? ::)

Why not?? Vox pop. Happens all the time. Or is the hijab some sort of cone of silence? "Do not approach, do not address"?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Nov 17^th, 2022 at 6:51pm

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by issuevoter on Nov 18^th, 2022 at 8:19am

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63661310

This is the government that gandalf supports and defends, and claims they have a "right" to build nuclear weapons. Why? Because they are Muzlums.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 10:10am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 2:45pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 4:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 12:54pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

Do you think it matters whether they are coerced Gandalf, or this this just a rhetorical question?

Of course it matters FD - coercion is bad.

The question is, how are you going to find out?

Brace yourself Gandalf. This might be a difficult concept for a Muslim.

Ask them.

Are you suggesting we are not allowed to ask Muslim women if they are oppressed? Do we need their husband's permission first?

I guess I did see it coming, but I would still like to here you explain why asking women is such a difficult concept for you. Is it just that you are concerned about what their answer might be?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 10:14am

FD you can ask them whatever you like.

The question, which once again you glossed over, is do you think its appropriate to walk up to any random woman on the street who happens to be wearing a hijab and ask them if they are being oppressed - on no other suspicion other than the fact that they are wearing a hijab?

And as John already asked you - how many times have you yourself done that - if you really consider it a valid concern to have for their welfare?

freediver wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 10:10am:

I would still like to here you explain why asking women is such a difficult concept for you. Is it just that you are concerned about what their answer might be?

Would I find it "difficult" and inappropriate to do what I just described above?

Absolutely, 100% yes. Would I find it deeply disturbing and creepy? Hell yes. And I would hope you would agree. And your continued evading of this question suggests to me that you do agree.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 4:29pm

freediver wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 10:10am:

Are you suggesting we are not allowed to ask Muslim women if they are oppressed? Do we need their husband's permission first?

How many have you asked FD?

And while we're at it, were you as concerned when you said that these hijab wearing women should be raped with a cactus?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 6:41pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 10:14am:

Why not?

Can you go up to a member of the public and ask him what he thinks of Israel's occupation of the West Bank?
Or about climate change? Nudity in public? Covid lockdowns?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 6:44pm

https://twitter.com/geertwilderspvv/status/1594957702815440896

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Nov 23^rd, 2022 at 7:17am

Quote:

FD you can ask them whatever you like.

Thanks Gandalf. Now would you like to answer your own question - how do you think we should find out if a woman is being forced to wear a burqa against her will?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 8:19am

freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2022 at 7:17am:

Quote:

FD you can ask them whatever you like.

Thanks Gandalf. Now would you like to answer your own question - how do you think we should find out if a woman is being forced to wear a burqa against her will?

Shifting the goal posts already FD. No one mentioned the burqa except you, so why do you pretend this is my question, or anything to do with my argument?

My argument so far has been specific to the hijab. It is obviously far less prohibitive or instrusive for women to wear that the burqa, and should not be considered as de facto, worn because of oppression. Why you would, and why you would consider it somehow appropriate to walk up to a random hijabi and "simply ask her" if she is being forced to wear it - is a question you continue to tapdance away from.

By changing the topic to the burqa, are you now conceding that randomly vox-popping a hijabi in the street if they are being oppressed is inappropriate and creepy?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 9:50am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 8:19am:

freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2022 at 7:17am:

Quote:

FD you can ask them whatever you like.

Thanks Gandalf. Now would you like to answer your own question - how do you think we should find out if a woman is being forced to wear a burqa against her will?

Relax Gandalf. Let's make it about the hijab. How would you propose we find out if women are being forced to wear it?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 4:03pm

We can do what you do and just pretend that's why they wear it fd. Much easier for you to keep making it up as you go if you do it that way.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 5:29pm

issuevoter wrote on Nov 18^th, 2022 at 8:19am:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63661310

This is the government that gandalf supports and defends, and claims they have a "right" to build nuclear weapons. Why? Because they are Muzlums.

Sounds like some members of the Tory party in Canberra. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 10:25pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 8:19am:

freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2022 at 7:17am:

Quote:

FD you can ask them whatever you like.

Thanks Gandalf. Now would you like to answer your own question - how do you think we should find out if a woman is being forced to wear a burqa against her will?

Why aren't you wearing a hijab? Why are you showing your hair?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 10:33pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

issuevoter wrote on Nov 18^th, 2022 at 8:19am:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63661310

This is the government that gandalf supports and defends, and claims they have a "right" to build nuclear weapons. Why? Because they are Muzlums.

Sounds like some members of the Tory party in Canberra. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Gawd, you are a squishy, spineless idiot, Bbwian. The mullahs of Iran are actually ordering and presiding over the killing of their citizens. And the vain, spineless, stupid idiot you are, you equate with one of the two major political parties of Australia.

You are mindless wazzock.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by issuevoter on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 10:58pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

issuevoter wrote on Nov 18^th, 2022 at 8:19am:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63661310

This is the government that gandalf supports and defends, and claims they have a "right" to build nuclear weapons. Why? Because they are Muzlums.

Sounds like some members of the Tory party in Canberra. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

The point is that Gandalf supports the Ayotollas because they are Muzlums. It doesn't matter to him what they want to do.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 12:03pm

issuevoter wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 10:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

issuevoter wrote on Nov 18^th, 2022 at 8:19am:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63661310

This is the government that gandalf supports and defends, and claims they have a "right" to build nuclear weapons. Why? Because they are Muzlums.

Sounds like some members of the Tory party in Canberra. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

The point is that Gandalf supports the Ayotollas because they are Muzlums. It doesn't matter to him what they want to do.

Yet he has stated he does not support them. Funny that. You seem rather prejudiced towards Muslims in general. You appear to be blind to what they actually say... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 12:05pm

Frank wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 10:33pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

issuevoter wrote on Nov 18^th, 2022 at 8:19am:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63661310

This is the government that gandalf supports and defends, and claims they have a "right" to build nuclear weapons. Why? Because they are Muzlums.

Sounds like some members of the Tory party in Canberra. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Such childishness, Soren. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 1:42pm

John Smith wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 4:03pm:

We can do what you do and just pretend that's why they wear it fd. Much easier for you to keep making it up as you go if you do it that way.

How about you John? Do you agree with Gandalf that it must remain an unfathomable mystery whether women are forced to wear the hijab?

Frank wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 10:25pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 8:19am:

freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2022 at 7:17am:

Quote:

FD you can ask them whatever you like.

Thanks Gandalf. Now would you like to answer your own question - how do you think we should find out if a woman is being forced to wear a burqa against her will?

Why aren't you wearing a hijab? Why are you showing your hair?

Easy their Frank. Gandalf might take offense to being asked such a question.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 2:58pm

freediver wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 1:42pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 4:03pm:

We can do what you do and just pretend that's why they wear it fd. Much easier for you to keep making it up as you go if you do it that way.

How about you John? Do you agree with Gandalf that it must remain an unfathomable mystery whether women are forced to wear the hijab?

Can you show gandalf actually saying that fd or is that just another of your lies

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 4:14pm

John Smith wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 2:58pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 1:42pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 4:03pm:

We can do what you do and just pretend that's why they wear it fd. Much easier for you to keep making it up as you go if you do it that way.

How about you John? Do you agree with Gandalf that it must remain an unfathomable mystery whether women are forced to wear the hijab?

Can you show gandalf actually saying that fd or is that just another of your lies

Did you read the posts you were replying to?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Baronvonrort on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 7:30pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 10:14am:

The question, which once again you glossed over, is do you think its appropriate to walk up to any random woman on the street who happens to be wearing a hijab and ask them if they are being oppressed - on no other suspicion other than the fact that they are wearing a hijab?

Ex muslim women say they were forced to wear hijab.

Are we supposed to ignore what people who leave Islam say while praising what people who leave other religions say?

::)

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 8:34pm

freediver wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 4:14pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 2:58pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 1:42pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 4:03pm:

We can do what you do and just pretend that's why they wear it fd. Much easier for you to keep making it up as you go if you do it that way.

How about you John? Do you agree with Gandalf that it must remain an unfathomable mystery whether women are forced to wear the hijab?

Can you show gandalf actually saying that fd or is that just another of your lies

Did you read the posts you were replying to?

So you lied. Just as I thought!

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 9:45pm

John Smith wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 8:34pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 4:14pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 2:58pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 1:42pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 4:03pm:

We can do what you do and just pretend that's why they wear it fd. Much easier for you to keep making it up as you go if you do it that way.

How about you John? Do you agree with Gandalf that it must remain an unfathomable mystery whether women are forced to wear the hijab?

Can you show gandalf actually saying that fd or is that just another of your lies

Did you read the posts you were replying to?

So you lied. Just as I thought!

Is that a no John?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 10:51am

freediver wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 9:50am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 8:19am:

freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2022 at 7:17am:

Quote:

FD you can ask them whatever you like.

Thanks Gandalf. Now would you like to answer your own question - how do you think we should find out if a woman is being forced to wear a burqa against her will?

Relax Gandalf. Let's make it about the hijab. How would you propose we find out if women are being forced to wear it?

I'm pretty sure just asking an actual victim of domestic abuse if they are being abused won't reveal much, and will most likely cause more damage. What do you expect "Oh yes, thank you kind stranger, now please rescue me!"?

But you see FD, leaping to that question as your first response is the problem here. Unlike you, if I see a random woman in the street wearing a hijab, my immediate reaction isn't actually "I need to find out if she is being oppressed" - just because of the mere fact of the hijab.

Has it ever occurred to you that having strange and creepy men confronting women in the street and asking them personal questions would be rather unwelcome - whether they are being oppressed or not?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:02am

freediver wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 4:14pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 2:58pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 1:42pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 4:03pm:

We can do what you do and just pretend that's why they wear it fd. Much easier for you to keep making it up as you go if you do it that way.

How about you John? Do you agree with Gandalf that it must remain an unfathomable mystery whether women are forced to wear the hijab?

Can you show gandalf actually saying that fd or is that just another of your lies

Did you read the posts you were replying to?

In other words, no he can't.

Abuse should be dealt with seriously and with a great deal of sensitivity.

If you are actually interested in helping victims, about the last thing they need is a complete stranger with a knight in shining armour complex to blunder up to them and out of the blue "just ask them" if they are being abused.

And, to answer your ham-fisted question - no, it would be just about the most ineffective way of finding out if they are actually being abused. And they would almost certainly answer "no, faark off" - as you would find out if you ever practiced what you preached.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:05am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 10:51am:

freediver wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 9:50am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 8:19am:

freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2022 at 7:17am:

Quote:

FD you can ask them whatever you like.

Thanks Gandalf. Now would you like to answer your own question - how do you think we should find out if a woman is being forced to wear a burqa against her will?

Relax Gandalf. Let's make it about the hijab. How would you propose we find out if women are being forced to wear it?

That's odd. You didn't answer the question.

How would you propose we find out if women are being forced to wear it?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:07am

simple question to FD - if nothing else to demonstrate the contortions he will put himself through to avoid answering it:

do you think its appropriate to ask a veiled woman on the street that you have never met if they are forced to wear the hijab? Yes or no.

follow up question:
do you think asking such a question will likely illicit a truthful answer by someone who really was being forced? Yes or no.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:19am

freediver wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:05am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 10:51am:

freediver wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 9:50am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 8:19am:

freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2022 at 7:17am:

Quote:

FD you can ask them whatever you like.

Thanks Gandalf. Now would you like to answer your own question - how do you think we should find out if a woman is being forced to wear a burqa against her will?

Relax Gandalf. Let's make it about the hijab. How would you propose we find out if women are being forced to wear it?

That's odd. You didn't answer the question.

How would you propose we find out if women are being forced to wear it?

I don't have an answer FD. Its a complicated issue. I believe I covered this in my first post on the topic.

What I do know for sure is that "just asking them" is not going to be an effective way to find out. Or if it is, you need to frame the circumstances in which you could do that - do you know them already? That would obviously change the scenario - is there other signs of abuse/compulsion? If not, then take no further steps. If so, then I imagine you wouldn't do it yourself, but bring in professional social workers or some such. You could have volunteered this sort of background framing if you were serious about having an adult discussion about it. But no, you just stuck with the idiotic "Just ask them!" "Oh gandalf, why can't you just ask them"??

You've had ample opportunity to clarify it as something different to my complete stranger with no evidence scenario, but you don't. Nor do you even acknowledge with me the obvious point that a stranger "just asking" a woman on the street if they are being forced is deeply inappropriate and creepy.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:56am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:07am:

1. Yes. Why can't you ask them that?

2. Yes. In any case, you would quickly perceive whether they are honest or not. But being forced is not necessarily done as in Iran. Social, family pressure and expectation is a kind of forcing.

You may have missed my earlier question: why aren't you wearing a hijab? Why are you showing your hair for all to see?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 12:36pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:07am:

Sure, but there are better ways to ask the question.

Quote:

I don't have an answer FD. Its a complicated issue.

You previously suggested we should not try to find out if they are forced to wear it. Are you doubting yourself now?

Quote:

What I do know for sure is that "just asking them" is not going to be an effective way to find out.

Can you suggest a more effective way? For example, would it become more effective if you "asked them" instead of "just asking them"?

Quote:

But no, you just stuck with the idiotic "Just ask them!" "Oh gandalf, why can't you just ask them"??

Quote:

You've had ample opportunity to clarify it as something different to my complete stranger with no evidence scenario, but you don't.

Forgive me. I keep forgetting how complicated it is to ask a Muslim a question.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 1:37pm

freediver wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

Sure, but there are better ways to ask the question.

such as?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 1:51pm

Frank wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:56am:

2. Yes. In any case, you would quickly perceive whether they are honest or not. But being forced is not necessarily done as in Iran. Social, family pressure and expectation is a kind of forcing.

Social, family pressure and expectation "forces" me to wear pants. Are you and FD planning on rescuing me? Or at the very least accosting me in the street and asking me intrusive and disturbing questions about the oppression I face?

Quote:

You may have missed my earlier question: why aren't you wearing a hijab? Why are you showing your hair for all to see?

I can't even make sense of that. What possible [non] point could you be making?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 2:12pm

freediver wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

You previously suggested we should not try to find out if they are forced to wear it.

Nonsense. I simply queried how you are going to do that - in a way that is not intrusive, humiliating and downright creepy for the woman. I tried many times to nail you down on what circumstances you could do that (via a social worker or the authorities? if its someone you know?) but you simply refused to engage.

The closest you ever got was in your last post hinting that there are "better ways to ask the question". So I'd like you to expand on that please.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 2:42pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 2:12pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

You previously suggested we should not try to find out if they are forced to wear it.

Nonsense.

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:30am:

Arguing the degree of agency women have in wearing the hijab in a free country like Australia is a fools errand, and adds nothing to the debate.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 3:14pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 1:51pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:56am:

2. Yes. In any case, you would quickly perceive whether they are honest or not. But being forced is not necessarily done as in Iran. Social, family pressure and expectation is a kind of forcing.

You may have missed my earlier question: why aren't you wearing a hijab? Why are you showing your hair for all to see?

I can't even make sense of that. What possible [non] point could you be making?

The hijab is not like pants at all. Everyone everywhere wears pants/skirts for non-religious reasons.
The hijab is a religious garb. That is why the question of pressure/compulsion comes up, as seen in Iran where it is evidently a compulsion, as well as in Western cities where it is suspected to be a garment to indicate religious separatism, forced or arrogantly volunteered.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 3:38pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 1:51pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:56am:

[quote]You may have missed my earlier question: why aren't you wearing a hijab? Why are you showing your hair for all to see?

I can't even make sense of that. What possible [non] point could you be making?

If the hijab is a matter of 'not drawing attention to hidden ornaments' (Koran, 24:30) then Muslim men should also cover their hair. Why does female hair have such powerful erotic effect on Muslim men but not on Muslim women? If it is good for the goose it should be good for the gander. Or is there some significant value differentiation in Islam between men and women that we need to know about? ::) Like superior/inferior doctrines that do not hold outside Islam but Muslims stick to, even outside Muslim countries, to demonstrate their doctrinaire alertness from and even opposition to the cultures around them?
(Of course there is, and that's at the heart of the matter. )

And if it's no biggie whether Muslimas wear a hijab or not, why wear it in countries where it is not the custom if not to demonstrate that it IS a biggie and a good shorthand signifier of hostility to the surrounding culture.

The hijab in the West is exactly the same as refusing to cover one's hair when entering a mosque in Muslim countries.
The only difference is that the West tolerates its own repudiation and Islam and Muslims don't.

As with everything else, Muslims exploit Western tolerance without ever, in any way, reciprocating it. And that's because they do not think for a moment that they are dealing with equals but with inferiors.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 5:07pm

freediver wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 9:45pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 8:34pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 4:14pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 2:58pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 1:42pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 4:03pm:

We can do what you do and just pretend that's why they wear it fd. Much easier for you to keep making it up as you go if you do it that way.

How about you John? Do you agree with Gandalf that it must remain an unfathomable mystery whether women are forced to wear the hijab?

Can you show gandalf actually saying that fd or is that just another of your lies

Did you read the posts you were replying to?

So you lied. Just as I thought!

Is that a no John?

Still pretending FD? Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough for one day?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 5:09pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:02am:

In other words, no he can't.

of course not.

FD's modus operandi is to pretend others have said things they never said, then ask you to prove him right. :D :D

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 9:41am

freediver wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 2:42pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 2:12pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

You previously suggested we should not try to find out if they are forced to wear it.

Nonsense.

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:30am:

Arguing the degree of agency women have in wearing the hijab in a free country like Australia is a fools errand, and adds nothing to the debate.

Reading comprehension fail.

"Arguing the degree of agency" != "try to find out if they are forced"

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 9:52am

Frank wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 3:38pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 1:51pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:56am:

[quote]You may have missed my earlier question: why aren't you wearing a hijab? Why are you showing your hair for all to see?

I can't even make sense of that. What possible [non] point could you be making?

What can I say? I agree, muslim countries are dicks towards non-muslims. Even some muslim communities in the west are arrogant and entitled - and they shouldn't be. But so what? I still don't get how that justifies demonizing individual women for wearing a piece of clothing.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 7:05pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 9:41am:

freediver wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 2:42pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 2:12pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

You previously suggested we should not try to find out if they are forced to wear it.

Nonsense.

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:30am:

Arguing the degree of agency women have in wearing the hijab in a free country like Australia is a fools errand, and adds nothing to the debate.

Reading comprehension fail.

"Arguing the degree of agency" != "try to find out if they are forced"

Would you like to explain the difference?

How can you do one without doing the other?

Is this like you saying you could ask them, so long as you don't just ask them?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 8:43am

newsflash FD, in most cases "just asking" a genuinely abused woman if they are being abused is not going to elicit a truthful answer. It can also be extremely damaging for the woman. Thats just domestic abuse management 101.

If you suspect abuse, you absolutely should do something about it. Key word here *IF* you suspect abuse. And no, the mere presence of a hijab with no other evidence is *NOT* a good justification to be suspicious. I've asked you repeatedly if you actually think it is, but you tap-dance away from this question every single time. I wonder why? You've spent this entire thread mocking me for not wanting to "just ask her" - while steadfastly refusing to confirm if thats what you would actually do.

But if you have good reasons to suspect abuse, then yes, you should do something about it. What that is, is not easy to say - probably something along the lines of reassuring her you are there if she needs me or wants to talk, and/or seeking professional advice. But what it absolutely should *NOT* involve is blundering up to her and start asking intrusive and downright creepy questions about the nature of the suspected abuse.

The only thing close to a useful thing you said in this whole discussion is that there are "better ways to ask the question". I asked you to elaborate, but I didn't get an answer. If you did, we might have a more useful discussion.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 1:01pm

Why don't you think we should be "Arguing the degree of agency" of women in burkas?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 1:24pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 9:52am:

Frank wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 3:38pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 1:51pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:56am:

[quote]You may have missed my earlier question: why aren't you wearing a hijab? Why are you showing your hair for all to see?

I can't even make sense of that. What possible [non] point could you be making?

'Demonise'??

Pointing out the anachronism of the hijab everywhere and its added hypocrisy as a flag of disrespect and repudiation of the host culture and its people in Western countries is not 'demonisation'. Don't always try to be the frikken victim just because you are Muslim. You are not a victim of anything except Islamic doctrines.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 1:28pm

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 1:01pm:

burkas?

Thats the second time you've done that. I'm beginning to think its deliberate.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 1:37pm

Frank wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 1:24pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 9:52am:

Frank wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 3:38pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 1:51pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:56am:

[quote]You may have missed my earlier question: why aren't you wearing a hijab? Why are you showing your hair for all to see?

I can't even make sense of that. What possible [non] point could you be making?

Its quite simple Frank, so don't be disingenuous about this. In cases where you agree women have agency to wear the hijab, you ascribe entirely sinister motives for it.

Not once have you ever acknowledged that a woman wearing a hijab with agency might have something other than sinister political motives in mind. Not once. That is demonizing them - plain and simple.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 9:30pm

What is that motivation?

Why don't you ever spell it out?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Dec 2^nd, 2022 at 6:20am

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 1:28pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 1:01pm:

burkas?

Thats the second time you've done that. I'm beginning to think its deliberate.

Would it make any difference which item of clothing we are talking about?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by polite_gandalf on Dec 2^nd, 2022 at 9:07am

freediver wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2022 at 6:20am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 1:28pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 1:01pm:

burkas?

Thats the second time you've done that. I'm beginning to think its deliberate.

Would it make any difference which item of clothing we are talking about?

Only by about a million miles - as already explained to you the last time you tried this "slippery muslim" goal-shifting trick.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by issuevoter on Dec 2^nd, 2022 at 11:34am

This idea that some women wear the Hijab willingly is obfuscation, a typical attempt to avoid the fact that societies where the hijab is common, have been male dominated, superstitious and without public education other than religious doctrine, since God was a boy. Wearing the Hijab in Western countries is from habit, indoctrination, and peer pressure, except for the small number of Western women who, like all orientalists, think it gives them some missing and possibly interesting part of their personality. Somewhat like getting a tattoo of spurious Asian meaning.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 8:12am

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2022 at 9:07am:

freediver wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2022 at 6:20am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 1:28pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 1:01pm:

burkas?

Thats the second time you've done that. I'm beginning to think its deliberate.

Would it make any difference which item of clothing we are talking about?

Only by about a million miles - as already explained to you the last time you tried this "slippery muslim" goal-shifting trick.

Would you mind explaining the difference? Why should the reasoning and logic change depending on whether you personally approve of a particular item of clothing?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 11:52am

freediver wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2022 at 6:20am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 1:28pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 1:01pm:

burkas?

Thats the second time you've done that. I'm beginning to think its deliberate.

Would it make any difference which item of clothing we are talking about?

:D :D :D

if it makes no difference why change it from your original comment?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 11:56am

Frank wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 9:30pm:

What is that motivation?

Why don't you ever spell it out?

Unlike you, I actually did ask an aussie woman wearing a hijab sitting next to me on a long plane ride why she wore a hijab, her answer, and I quote 'I like wearing it'.

Ohh, and she wasn't the only woman I've spoken to over the years to give me that reply

I'll bet that blows your little nazi mind out of the water ....... that some women might actually want to wear one :D

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 10:54am

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 10:56am

John Smith wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 11:56am:

Frank wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 9:30pm:

What is that motivation?

Why don't you ever spell it out?

Yeah, the ones I spoke to on long plane rides said it was the bearded numpties and their mothras who made them do it.

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by freediver on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 11:36am

John Smith wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 11:56am:

Frank wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 9:30pm:

What is that motivation?

Why don't you ever spell it out?

How dare you. Did you get her husband's permission first?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 4:30pm

Frank wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 11:56am:

Frank wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 9:30pm:

What is that motivation?

Why don't you ever spell it out?

Yeah, the ones I spoke to on long plane rides said it was the bearded numpties and their mothras who made them do it.

Crap, if bearded numpties were making them wear a hijab they certainly wouldn't be allowing them to talk to an infidel like you.

If you're going to lie you need to do better

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by John Smith on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 4:30pm

freediver wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 11:36am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 11:56am:

Frank wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 9:30pm:

What is that motivation?

Why don't you ever spell it out?

How dare you. Did you get her husband's permission first?

Her husband wasn't like you

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Feb 3^rd, 2023 at 8:39am

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Jun 19^th, 2024 at 10:05am

"[People say], 'Oh, but it's just the scarf', but it's not. It's a symbol," Amal says. "It carries meaning and purpose. It says something about the wearer."

"There's so much more to hijab."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-06/house-of-gods-exploring-hijab-islam-muslim-women/103376332

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Jun 20^th, 2024 at 11:15am

Frank wrote on Jun 19^th, 2024 at 10:05am:

The meaning :

Hijabi woman burns the French flag. If you hate Europe so much, why do you still keep coming to Europe?
https://x.com/EuropeInvasionn/status/1803339183118835944

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Aquarius on Jun 22^nd, 2024 at 3:36pm

[quote author=Frank [People say], 'Oh, but it's just the scarf', but it's not. It's a symbol," Amal says. "It carries meaning and purpose. It says something about the wearer."

"There's so much more to hijab."

[/quote]

The meaning :

Hijabi woman burns the French flag. If you hate Europe so much, why do you still keep coming to Europe?[/quote]

The welfare? Muslims are almost twice as likely to be unemployed as the rest of the population.

As for wearing hijab ... they might say it's misogynistic to force women to abandon the hijab ... but conversely isn't it misogynistic to force them to wear it in the first place?

Title: Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Post by Frank on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 9:43am

Bravo to Marine Le Pen for blasting Islamic veil in France:

“I consider the Islamist veil to be a marker of this totalitarian ideology. I thus wish to free every women on our national territory from it.

I said it this morning to neighbourhood under the pressure from Islamists (to wear veil) is that of course on the women who don't wear it, isolating the women who don't wear one. And from that point It's a great loss of freedom for women, which is in fact freedom of choice."

https://x.com/ImtiazMadmood/status/1808015901347774526