Fraser Island expected to be formally named K'gari as community consultation ends 8-)

the aborigine , pre the arrival of the white man was an elite athlete and had to be an alpha male.

modern western society has niches for useless people to get by. not so in a tribal setting,.  you did soemthing meaningful or you were ousted

you fill one of those niches for useless people,  bwian, with your silly ideas like 'renaming an island " will make a difference. you would have been ousted from a real tribe

renaming an island wont make a difference

its as meaningless as most of your piffle

encouraging the aborigine to reconnect with his awesome roots and develop self reliance is what will see him back in an upward spiral

of course the do-gooders are determined to oppress him with infantalisation and gimmicks like renaming fraser island

::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/thumbs/160/whatsapp/238/yawning-face_1f971.png

Poor, poor, Aqua, weren't you consulted?  Was that because you weren't a member of the local community, which backs the move to a old name?  You need to climb down off your "alpha" high horse and rejoin the rest of Australian society.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 3:41pm:

encouraging the aborigine to reconnect with his awesome roots and develop self reliance is what will see him back in an upward spiral

Courtesy of Tourism Australia

This week marked an important milestone for the Butchulla Aboriginal Corporation – which has been campaigning to change the name of Queensland’s Fraser Island to its traditional name, K’Gari (pronounced “Gurri”), for decades.

The Queensland Government confirmed it has officially changed the island’s name to its Aboriginal name, which means “paradise” in Butchulla language.

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 3:33pm:

Fraser Island expected to be formally named K'gari as community consultation ends 8-)

The general manager of the Butchulla Aboriginal Corporation, Chantel Van Wamelen, said the title change was a restoration, rather than a renaming.

"It's always been known as K'gari to us and it's about the truth-telling too," she said.




:o :o

Is that the original Butchulla spelling of K'gari (pron gurri)?

Is 'Chantel Van Wamelen' an original Butchulla Aboriginal name? Is that the traditional owners' original spelling of her name? What does it mean in Butchulla?

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 3:41pm:

the aborigine , pre the arrival of the white man was an elite athlete and had to be an alpha male. modern western society has niches for useless people to get by. not so in a tribal setting,.  you did soemthing meaningful or you were ousted you fill one of those niches for useless people,  bwian, with your silly ideas like 'renaming an island " will make a difference. you would have been ousted from a real tribe renaming an island wont make a difference its as meaningless as most of your piffle encouraging the aborigine to reconnect with his awesome roots and develop self reliance is what will see him back in an upward spiral of course the do-gooders are determined to oppress him with infantalisation and gimmicks like renaming fraser island ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

You seem retarded.....

Frank wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 3:33pm: Fraser Island expected to be formally named K'gari as community consultation ends 8-) The general manager of the Butchulla Aboriginal Corporation, Chantel Van Wamelen, said the title change was a restoration, rather than a renaming. "It's always been known as K'gari to us and it's about the truth-telling too," she said. :o :o Is that the original spelling of K'gari (pron gurri)? Is that how Pre-1788 Aborigines spelled thd name of the Island? Is 'Chantel Van Wamelen' an original Aboriginal name? Is that the traditional owners' original spelling of her name?

Cry, old man,  Your world is burning to the ground

Frank wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:07pm:

Is 'Chantel Van Wamelen' an original Aboriginal name? Is that the traditional owners' original spelling of her name?

I suspect her mother was raped by a Dutchman.  Rape was what happened after all the men were shot.  How else were all the mixed race children created?   Did you think is was from romantic love matches?

What a racist ignorant khunt you are Frank.

random wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:11pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:07pm: Is 'Chantel Van Wamelen' an original Aboriginal name? Is that the traditional owners' original spelling of her name? I suspect her mother was raped by a Dutchman.  Rape was what happened after all the men were shot.  How else were all the mixed race children created?   Did you think is was from romantic love matches? What a racist ignorant khunt you are Frank.

If so, why does she keep the name?  Why does she have a white man's name?

And how do the Butchulla speakers spell the name of the island in their own writings? Why are they appropriating the Latin alphabet?  When will they revert to their own, original alphabet and spelling?

one has to feel for the aborigine (the real aborigine) who has no interest in politics but is only interested in nature.

lessers in his community (self appointed elites)  cheered on by losers like bwian and left weirdo have decided what is good for him and oppress him whilst enriching themselves by sucking up to white social justice warriors.

how ugly and disgraceful .

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:17pm:

one has to feel for the aborigine (the real aborigine) who has no interest in politics but is only interested in nature. lessers in his community (self appointed elites)  cheered on by losers like bwian and left weirdo have decided what is good for him and oppress him whilst enriching themselves by sucking up to white social justice warriors. how ugly and disgraceful .

You really are garbage....

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:18pm:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:17pm: one has to feel for the aborigine (the real aborigine) who has no interest in politics but is only interested in nature. lessers in his community (self appointed elites)  cheered on by losers like bwian and left weirdo have decided what is good for him and oppress him whilst enriching themselves by sucking up to white social justice warriors. how ugly and disgraceful . You really are garbage....

i am an admirer of aboriginal culture and history.
a history rich in courage and resilience.

i am not an admirer of people such as yourself...angry frustrated and smug.
any aborigine worth his salt would run 100 miles from your negative skulking sour energy

Frank wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:17pm:

random wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:11pm: Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:07pm: Is 'Chantel Van Wamelen' an original Aboriginal name? Is that the traditional owners' original spelling of her name? I suspect her mother was raped by a Dutchman.  Rape was what happened after all the men were shot.  How else were all the mixed race children created?   Did you think is was from romantic love matches? What a racist ignorant khunt you are Frank. If so, why does she keep the name?  Why does she have a white man's name?

That's how white men attempt to erase the Aboriginal culture.  Stop them using their names, stop them speaking their language and convert them to Christianity while the priests farrkkk the children. 

But I suspect that it's easier for her to get a job with that name.  Racist khunts filter out all the non-anglo names when the applications are received.

Do I have to school you in everything you dumb khunt?

Mount Isa Mines Rodeo with the Indigenous Rodeo Championships will be a cracker
July 29, 2022




There will be a record number of riders to provide thrills and spills on the arena and then at night Guy Sebastian and Baker Boy will come out to rodeo rock at Isa


aboriginal athletes
aboriginal entertainers

so much to admire


renaming some sand...meaningless drivel

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:20pm:

i am an admirer of aboriginal culture and history.

https://c.tenor.com/XwHg68gyY5AAAAAC/bs-bs-meter.gif

random wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:24pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:17pm: random wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:11pm: Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:07pm: Is 'Chantel Van Wamelen' an original Aboriginal name? Is that the traditional owners' original spelling of her name? I suspect her mother was raped by a Dutchman.  Rape was what happened after all the men were shot.  How else were all the mixed race children created?   Did you think is was from romantic love matches? What a racist ignorant khunt you are Frank. If so, why does she keep the name?  Why does she have a white man's name? That's how white men attempt to erase the Aboriginal culture.  Stop them using their names, stop them speaking their language and convert them to Christianity while the priests farrkkk the children.  But I suspect that it's easier for her to get a job with that name.  Racist khunts filter out all the non-anglo names when the applications are received. Do I have to school you in everything you dumb khunt?

She can change the name of Fraser Island but not her own Dutch name?  Why?

And how do the Butchulla speakers spell the name of the island in their own writings? Why are they appropriating the Latin alphabet?  When will they revert to their own, original alphabet and spelling?

Why are they appropriating the white man's alphabet and writing system?? Don't they have their own, proud and ancient writing system??

Frank wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:26pm:

She can change the name of Fraser Island but not her own Dutch name?  Why?

Revenge!

To windup fat white kkunts like you.

Seems to be working too!

https://c.tenor.com/JMOwzkVHV1kAAAAd/laugh-elissa.gif

random wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:11pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:07pm: Is 'Chantel Van Wamelen' an original Aboriginal name? Is that the traditional owners' original spelling of her name? I suspect her mother was raped by a Dutchman.  Rape was what happened after all the men were shot.  How else were all the mixed race children created?   Did you think is was from romantic love matches? What a racist ignorant khunt you are Frank.

Settle down, random - you know full well that many Aboriginal women took up with Wharte blokes.

random wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:30pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:26pm: She can change the name of Fraser Island but not her own Dutch name?  Why? Revenge! To windup fat white kkunts like you. Seems to be working too! https://c.tenor.com/JMOwzkVHV1kAAAAd/laugh-elissa.gif

So she keeps a white rapist's name as her own to upset other whites??  Is that the old "Butchulla revenge?

Frank wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:32pm:

So she keeps a white rapist's name as her own to upset other whites??  Is that the old "Butchulla revenge?

https://c.tenor.com/u0Eoa2CkXBcAAAAC/yep-nod.gif

Evidently all the Kabi Kabi know their own name for the island, "K'Gari" for the Europeans. Cardiff (/ˈkɑːrdɪf/; Welsh: Caerdydd) in Wales has two names . Cardiff (English) Caerdydd (Welsh).  One is for the English usage and one is for the Welsh.  English are different from Welsh.The Qld Government is different from both the British and the Welsh governments. Qld named the island K'Gari. It is the Aboriginal name. A name is how something is known. You have a name.

random wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:34pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:32pm: So she keeps a white rapist's name as her own to upset other whites??  Is that the old "Butchulla revenge? https://c.tenor.com/u0Eoa2CkXBcAAAAC/yep-nod.gif

:D :D

That is as daft as you, Predictable, so it MUST be your idea.

Give us another one.  Sparkle. Go on, in Butchulla.

Place-Names: The Name
Swann's Way by Marcel Proust
I need only, to make them reappear, pronounce the names: Balbec, Venice, Florence, within whose syllables had gradually accumulated all the longing inspired in me by the places for which they stood. Even in spring, to come in a book upon the name of Balbec sufficed to awaken in me the desire for storms at sea and for the Norman gothic; even on a stormy day the name of Florence or of Venice would awaken the desire for sunshine, for lilies, for the Palace of the Doges and for Santa Maria del Fiore.

But if their names thus permanently absorbed the image that I had formed of these towns, it was only by transforming that image, by subordinating its reappearance in me to their own special laws; and in consequence of this they made it more beautiful, but at the same time more different from anything that the towns of Normandy or Tuscany could in reality be, and, by increasing the arbitrary delights of my imagination, aggravated the disenchantment that was in store for me when I set out upon my travels. They magnified the idea that I formed of certain points on the earth's surface, making them more special, and in consequence more real. I did not then represent to myself towns, landscapes, historic buildings, as pictures more or less attractive, cut out here and there of a substance that was common to them all, but looked on each of them as on an unknown thing, different from all the rest, a thing for which my soul was athirst, by the knowledge of which it would benefit. How much more individual still was the character that they assumed from being designated by names, names that were only for themselves, proper names such as people have. Words present to us little pictures of things, lucid and normal, like the pictures that are hung on the walls of schoolrooms to give children an illustration of what is meant by a carpenter's bench, a bird, an ant-hill; things chosen as typical of everything else of the same sort. But names present to us—of persons and of towns which they accustom us to regard as individual, as unique, like persons—a confused picture, which draws from the names, from the brightness or darkness of their sound, the colour in which it is uniformly painted, like one of those posters, entirely blue or entirely red, in which, on account of the limitations imposed by the process used in their reproduction, or by a whim on the designer's part, are blue or red not only the sky and the sea, but the ships and the church and the people in the streets. The name of Parma, one of the towns that I most longed to visit, after reading the Chartreuse, seeming to me compact and glossy, violet-tinted, soft, if anyone were to speak of such or such a house in Parma, in which I should be lodged, he would give me the pleasure of thinking that I was to inhabit a dwelling that was compact and glossy, violet-tinted, soft, and that bore no relation to the houses in any other town in Italy, since I could imagine it only by the aid of that heavy syllable of the name of Parma, in which no breath of air stirred, and of all that I had made it assume of Stendhalian sweetness and the reflected hue of violets. And when I thought of Florence, it was of a town miraculously embalmed, and flower-like, since it was called the City of the Lilies, and its Cathedral, Our Lady of the Flower. As for Balbec, it was one of those names in which, as on an old piece of Norman pottery that still keeps the colour of the earth from which it was fashioned, one sees depicted still the representation of some long-abolished custom, of some feudal right, of the former condition of some place, of an obsolete way of pronouncing the language, which had shaped and wedded its incongruous syllables and which I never doubted that I should find spoken there at once, even by the inn-keeper who would pour me out coffee and milk on my arrival, taking me down to watch the turbulent sea, unchained, before the church; to whom I lent the aspect, disputatious, solemn and mediaeval, of some character in one of the old romances.
...
I had always, within reach, a plan of Paris, which, because I could see drawn on it the street in which M. and Mme. Swann lived, seemed to me to contain a secret treasure. And to please myself, as well as by a sort of chivalrous loyalty, in any connection or with no relevance at all, I would repeat the name of that street until my father, not being, like my mother and grandmother, in the secret of my love, would ask: "But why are you always talking about that street? There's nothing wonderful about it. It is an admirable street to live in because it's only a few minutes' walk from the Bois, but there are a dozen other streets just the same."

I made every effort to introduce the name of Swann into my conversation with my parents; in my own mind, of course, I never ceased to murmur it; but I needed also to hear its exquisite sound, and to make myself play that chord, the voiceless rendering of which did not suffice me. Moreover, that name of Swann, with which I had for so long been familiar, was to me now (as happens at times to people suffering from aphasia, in the case of the most ordinary words) the name of something new. It was for ever present in my mind, which could not, however, grow accustomed to it. I analysed it, I spelt it; its orthography came to me as a surprise. And with its familiarity it had simultaneously lost its innocence. The pleasure that I .... etc.

https://2l90qdgid4-flywheel.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/nod8c.gif

What were Coonamble and Coonabarabran original names?  Anyone? 

‘Coonamble’ is the Aboriginal word for ‘lot of dirt’. The US “coon” as an insult for African American people is most likely not from “racoon,” but from the Portuguese barraca, “slave depot.” The English spoke a form of English which is a cousin of Portuguese but not so dark-skinned. Most Aboriginals are not Portuguese except the Portuguese ones who are. Portuguese.

chimera wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 5:48pm:

‘Coonamble’ is the Aboriginal word for ‘lot of dirt’. The US “coon” as an insult for African American people is most likely not from “racoon,” but from the Portuguese barraca, “slave depot.” The English spoke a form of English which is a cousin of Portuguese but not so dark-skinned. Most Aboriginals are not Portuguese except the Portuguese ones who are. Portuguese.

https://c.tenor.com/_k1skPvsH3UAAAAd/laughing-man.gif

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Fraser Island
Fraser Island
Fraser Island
Fraser Island
Fraser Island
Fraser Island

Fraser
Faser
Fascer
Fascir
Fascis
Fascism

Perhaps rave-on could explain to us how a surname is passed down to a child of rape???????????

That's a hard one, eh?

When I got 4x4ing on Fraser Island , can I still use a dirty great big boongbar?

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 6:30pm:

Perhaps rave-on could explain to us how a surname is passed down to a child of rape??????????? That's a hard one, eh?

Fish ON!

https://c.tenor.com/j3YHAmUsvuMAAAAM/finao-fishing.gif

Gordon wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 6:35pm:

When I got 4x4ing on Fraser Island , can I still use a dirty great big boongbar?

https://c.tenor.com/DZmDkbi5otAAAAAd/filthy-frank-butthurt.gif

'The Aboriginal Girls Home was situated in a house at West End, in the vicinity of Victoria and Kurilpa streets. It acted as a receiving depot for Aboriginal domestic servants from all over Queensland. Any single girl or woman travelling through Brisbane, visiting for medical attention or merely between domestic service stints was forced to stay there. Under the Aboriginal Protection and Restriction of the Sale of Opium Act 1897, the Aboriginal Girls Home was classified as a 'reserve' in 1904 and was therefore governed by the provisions of the Act.

Frances Meston managed the Aboriginal Girls Home at West End, having been appointed Protector of Aborigines (Female) in 1899. She was the wife of Archibald Meston, Southern Protector of Aborigines. The Protectress supervised girls sent to work as domestics in and around Brisbane.'

Guess who raped single, helpless girls working as a servant under forced labour?

chimera wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 6:44pm:

'The Aboriginal Girls Home was situated in a house at West End, in the vicinity of Victoria and Kurilpa streets.

"Boundary Streets in Brisbane's inner city got their name in the early history of the city in an effort to segregate local Jagera and Turrbal people from British se­ttlers."

Many towns and cities in Australia have one or more Boundary Streets.  This is where the name came from.

"Brisbane-based Aboriginal activist Sam Watson says he prefers transparency.

"That name [Boundary Street] is written into the blood of our people," Sam Watson told NITV News.

chimera wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 6:44pm:

'The Aboriginal Girls Home was situated in a house at West End, in the vicinity of Victoria and Kurilpa streets. It acted as a receiving depot for Aboriginal domestic servants from all over Queensland. Any single girl or woman travelling through Brisbane, visiting for medical attention or merely between domestic service stints was forced to stay there. Under the Aboriginal Protection and Restriction of the Sale of Opium Act 1897, the Aboriginal Girls Home was classified as a 'reserve' in 1904 and was therefore governed by the provisions of the Act. Frances Meston managed the Aboriginal Girls Home at West End, having been appointed Protector of Aborigines (Female) in 1899. She was the wife of Archibald Meston, Southern Protector of Aborigines. The Protectress supervised girls sent to work as domestics in and around Brisbane.' Guess who raped single, helpless girls working as a servant under forced labour?

... and you know this was rape how exactly?

Ooooh, look - the Brittany Higgins case is on ... interesting - original statement that the woke up with him on top of her, has become she woke up with him raping her.... first statement never mentioned penetration.

I smell coaching and maybe a little word-changing...

I don't know it was rape. I wrote 'Guess who..'


'could explain to us how a surname is passed down to a child of rape?'

Have you come across convictions for rape in modern institutions for children?

random wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 6:50pm:

chimera wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 6:44pm: 'The Aboriginal Girls Home was situated in a house at West End, in the vicinity of Victoria and Kurilpa streets. "Boundary Streets in Brisbane's inner city got their name in the early history of the city in an effort to segregate local Jagera and Turrbal people from British se­ttlers." Many towns and cities in Australia have one or more Boundary Streets.  This is where the name came from. "Brisbane-based Aboriginal activist Sam Watson says he prefers transparency. "That name [Boundary Street] is written into the blood of our people," Sam Watson told NITV News.

So every second Cheese is a Boundary by surname?  What about the demand for removal of the Grecian engraved statues on the town hall?  How does that one fit it?  If they were segregated how did they develop Wharte Man's names?

Seems to be on hell of a lot of contradiction going on there................

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 7:00pm:

Ooooh, look - the Brittany Higgins case is on ... interesting - original statement that the woke up with him on top of her, has become she woke up with him raping her.... first statement never mentioned penetration. I smell coaching and maybe a little word-changing...

I smell a fat old white mysoginistic khunt who automatically takes the male side.

So predicable.

https://media.tenor.com/ZFc20z8DItkAAAAM/facepalm-really.gif

chimera wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 7:02pm:

I don't know it was rape. I wrote 'Guess who..' Have you come across convictions for rape in modern institutions for children?

Probably were some abuses in times past ... more likely girls put into service could be taken advantage of and maybe inherit the 'owners' name.... can't see that happening though in a family home... the missus would kill him.

Met a Cheese named Fernando once - lots of those around...

Boundary street got its name from a town council. A street is not an Aborigianl. A street is a long passage way for gentlemen who obtain the services of a bit on the side, wink. The segregation was for people who used the streets. The slave girls were taken along the street to the white man's house of slavery and rapery.

You asked about names and rape.

random wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 7:06pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 7:00pm: Ooooh, look - the Brittany Higgins case is on ... interesting - original statement that the woke up with him on top of her, has become she woke up with him raping her.... first statement never mentioned penetration. I smell coaching and maybe a little word-changing... I smell a fat old white mysoginistic khunt who automatically takes the male side. So predicable. https://media.tenor.com/ZFc20z8DItkAAAAM/facepalm-really.gif

Not at all - I'm happy to see the dork go down IF he did it... I'm merely pointing out that the wording has changed over the intervening months.  "I woke up on the couch with him on top of me" has become "I woke up on the couch with him raping me"... just a little amendment there... given that the other evidence is as thin as an Ethiopian's dog..

Jeez - you're dumb.... but take comfort - you're not alone..... and learn to spell, Cheese Luvvah...

chimera wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 7:10pm:

Boundary street got its name from a town council. A street is not an Aborigianl. A street is a long passage way for gentlemen who obtain the services of a bit on the side, wink. The segregation was for people who used the streets. The slave girls were taken along the street to the white man's house of slavery and rapery. You asked about names and rape.

Now then - so the claim now is that 'Boundary Street' was to mark the difference between Whartetown and Blacktown?  So no Cheese ladies shacked up with Wharte men with Wharte names, then - crossed the line so to speak?  They were all raped but somehow inherited the name of the rapist?

Doesn't sound very likely.... more likely they interbred... not enough Wharte women... and probably same as the average Cheese in prison, the food was better and maybe the treatment.

A house girl is in a house. A street girl is on a street. The street girl can't go the house except when she's forced to be a servant. Then the white man takes the Aboriginal across Boundary Street to his house. He moves by walking. The girl walks. A house is a pile of white trash where the Lady of the house goes shopping Saturday morning. The Gentleman attends to the needs of his trousers, wink wink giggle.

In my opinion, we shouldn't be totally erasing Anglo names
that were given to geographic formations or localities that
were—and are—historically important to the vast majority
of the current and largely white (-ish) population whose
ancestors originally settled here and made the country what
it is today, shedding a lot of sweat and tears doing so.

Why can we not simply hyphenate ancient and modern names?

Kunyani-Mt Wellington; Moreland-Merribek; Uluru-Ayers Rock;
K'gari-Fraser Island; Grampians-Gariwerd National Park;
McKenzies-Mikunung Wira Falls; Tumbulong-Darling Harbour;
Wadjemup-Rottnest Isand; etc etc etc.

And if we need to get overly-pedantic about all this naming
stuff, who gets the "right" to name something or somewhere?
Consider for example that Mt Wellington, Ayers Rock, the
Grampians, MacKenzie Falls, the Blue Mountains, the Olgas,
and Rottnest Island were all in existence thousands of years
before the Aborigines invaded the continent.      

(Yes, yes... I know it's a frivolous argument. but all the same...)

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 7:39pm:

In my opinion, we shouldn't be totally erasing Anglo names that were given to geographic formations or localities that were—and are—historically important to the vast majority of the current and largely white (-ish) population whose ancestors originally settled here and made the country what it is today, shedding a lot of sweat and tears doing so. Why can we not simply hyphenate ancient and modern names? Kunyani-Mt Wellington; Moreland-Merribek; Uluru-Ayers Rock; K'gari-Fraser Island; Grampians-Gariwerd National Park; McKenzies-Mikunung Wira Falls; Tumbulong-Darling Harbour; Wadjemup-Rottnest Isand; etc etc etc. And if we need to get overly-pedantic about all this naming stuff, who gets the "right" to name something or somewhere? Consider for example that Mt Wellington, Ayers Rock, the Grampians, MacKenzie Falls, the Blue Mountains, the Olgas, and Rottnest Island were all in existence thousands of years before the Aborigines invaded the continent.       (Yes, yes... I know it's a frivolous argument. but all the same...)

Every rock predates humans lol

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:17pm:

one has to feel for the aborigine (the real aborigine) who has no interest in politics but is only interested in nature.

On what basis do you claim that, Aqua? 

Never been near an Indigenous camp come council meeting day?  You'd be surprised how interested many Indigenous people are in politics. 

You really are a fool and a nincompoop.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 7:00pm:

Ooooh, look - the Brittany Higgins case is on ... interesting - original statement that the woke up with him on top of her, has become she woke up with him raping her.... first statement never mentioned penetration. I smell coaching and maybe a little word-changing...

Could you kindly tell us exactly what this has to do with the
renaming of Fraser Island to K'gari?  Or is it simply a feeble
excuse to jump on your personal, hateful high horse?

I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if you could cease derailing
threads on this forum—as you've done repeatedly in the past.

Thank you.

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 7:56pm:

Every rock predates humans lol

Not necessarily.   For example, recent and historical active volcanoes are still
creating igneous rocks from magma. EG: Ilopango 450CE; Laki Iceland 1783;
Mt Unzen Japan 1792; Santa Maria Guatemala 1902 etc.

Magma is not rock, in the same way that water is not ice.

 

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 8:03pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 7:00pm: Ooooh, look - the Brittany Higgins case is on ... interesting - original statement that the woke up with him on top of her, has become she woke up with him raping her.... first statement never mentioned penetration. I smell coaching and maybe a little word-changing... Could you kindly tell us exactly what this has to do with the renaming of Fraser Island to K'gari?  Or is it simply a feeble excuse to jump on your personal, hateful high horse? I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if you could cease derailing threads on this forum—as you've done repeatedly in the past. Thank you.

He's literal human garbage, glad some lefty woman got put in her place, and raped

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 8:20pm:

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 8:03pm: Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 7:00pm: Ooooh, look - the Brittany Higgins case is on ... interesting - original statement that the woke up with him on top of her, has become she woke up with him raping her.... first statement never mentioned penetration. I smell coaching and maybe a little word-changing... Could you kindly tell us exactly what this has to do with the renaming of Fraser Island to K'gari?  Or is it simply a feeble excuse to jump on your personal, hateful high horse? I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if you could cease derailing threads on this forum—as you've done repeatedly in the past. Thank you. He's literal human garbage, glad some lefty woman got put in her place, and raped

That's bit rough and uncalled for.  Grappler is a fool and a misogynist but is not "garbage" as such.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 8:20pm:

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 8:03pm: Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 7:00pm: Ooooh, look - the Brittany Higgins case is on ... interesting - original statement that the woke up with him on top of her, has become she woke up with him raping her.... first statement never mentioned penetration. I smell coaching and maybe a little word-changing... Could you kindly tell us exactly what this has to do with the renaming of Fraser Island to K'gari?  Or is it simply a feeble excuse to jump on your personal, hateful high horse? I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if you could cease derailing threads on this forum—as you've done repeatedly in the past. Thank you. He's literal human garbage, glad some lefty woman got put in her place, and raped

SLANDER!  She was a Liberal Party staffer, you dork...

Your Master speaks....... ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 8:03pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 7:00pm: Ooooh, look - the Brittany Higgins case is on ... interesting - original statement that the woke up with him on top of her, has become she woke up with him raping her.... first statement never mentioned penetration. I smell coaching and maybe a little word-changing... Could you kindly tell us exactly what this has to do with the renaming of Fraser Island to K'gari?  Or is it simply a feeble excuse to jump on your personal, hateful high horse? I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if you could cease derailing threads on this forum—as you've done repeatedly in the past. Thank you.

Rantdome brought in the subject of Aboriginal women being raped.... it seemed meet to add in a current affair.

I knew it would bring all the worms out of the woodwork... people who can't read ....

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 7:56pm:

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 7:39pm: In my opinion, we shouldn't be totally erasing Anglo names that were given to geographic formations or localities that were—and are—historically important to the vast majority of the current and largely white (-ish) population whose ancestors originally settled here and made the country what it is today, shedding a lot of sweat and tears doing so. Why can we not simply hyphenate ancient and modern names? Kunyani-Mt Wellington; Moreland-Merribek; Uluru-Ayers Rock; K'gari-Fraser Island; Grampians-Gariwerd National Park; McKenzies-Mikunung Wira Falls; Tumbulong-Darling Harbour; Wadjemup-Rottnest Isand; etc etc etc. And if we need to get overly-pedantic about all this naming stuff, who gets the "right" to name something or somewhere? Consider for example that Mt Wellington, Ayers Rock, the Grampians, MacKenzie Falls, the Blue Mountains, the Olgas, and Rottnest Island were all in existence thousands of years before the Aborigines invaded the continent.       (Yes, yes... I know it's a frivolous argument. but all the same...) Every rock predates humans lol

Every rock in your head predates any humanity you may have......

Signed
Your Master......

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 7:39pm:

In my opinion, we shouldn't be totally erasing Anglo names that were given to geographic formations or localities that were—and are—historically important to the vast majority of the current and largely white (-ish) population whose ancestors originally settled here and made the country what it is today, shedding a lot of sweat and tears doing so. Why can we not simply hyphenate ancient and modern names? Kunyani-Mt Wellington; Moreland-Merribek; Uluru-Ayers Rock; K'gari-Fraser Island; Grampians-Gariwerd National Park; McKenzies-Mikunung Wira Falls; Tumbulong-Darling Harbour; Wadjemup-Rottnest Isand; etc etc etc. And if we need to get overly-pedantic about all this naming stuff, who gets the "right" to name something or somewhere? Consider for example that Mt Wellington, Ayers Rock, the Grampians, MacKenzie Falls, the Blue Mountains, the Olgas, and Rottnest Island were all in existence thousands of years before the Aborigines invaded the continent.       (Yes, yes... I know it's a frivolous argument. but all the same...)

I object to Aborigines using the Latin, white European alphabet.

What's wrong with using their own???? If they are really first nations they should each use their own first national alphabets. Not too much to ask, is it??

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 3:33pm:

Fraser Island expected to be formally named K'gari as community consultation ends 8-)

I like the sound of that name.
It takes time to remember… like with Ayers/Uluṟu.

I’m wondering… whilst Queensland support aboriginal renaming…
Here in Vic it’s pulling away from aboriginal names!
I’m absolutely against this taking away the aboriginal name of our hospital ….

https://7news.com.au/news/vic/daniel-andrews-plan-to-rename-maroondah-hospital-after-queen-elizabeth-triggers-community-outrage--c-8295851

“The short story is Mr Andrews wants to rename Maroondah Hospital to Queen Elizabeth II hospital.

Maroondah is a local Wurundjeri Woi-wurrung word meaning throwing of leaves. For some in the community, they found the replacement of an Indigenous-named hospital with that of our beloved late Queen a step too far.”

Australia to be re-named Gondwanaland... translates to "Australia is gone - you want the land - how much ya got?"

I'm waiting to see how long it takes the 'local indigenous owners' to sell off that prime beachfront land at Coffs Harbour when the developer's price gets right..... worth a fortune right next to Coffs Harbour Jetty re-development...  Perrotet government complicit....................

Then they can cry poor again and claim all the hinterland mountains and stuff.....

FFS .....................

'Eliza's tale was debunked by other survivors of the shipwreck, but it no longer mattered - the colonial narrative had been created for the Indigenous peoples, which in turn contributed to the entrenchment of harmful rhetoric. 

For decades, the Butchulla people have lived with their home being named after the person that had contributed heavily to their own dispossession, and the personification of their people as 'savages'.
https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/miranda-otto-on-kgari-and-correcting-eliza-frasers-remarkably-silly-story/nr5ibog44

Sydney Gazette of 1838 stated that her story was 'overcharged and contradictory'. Archibald Meston the Government Protector of Aborigines said 'her head was badly affected'. In England she was confined to a mental hospital.

Frank wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 9:08pm:

I object to Aborigines using the Latin, white European alphabet.

Why aren't you posting in Latin? You're not using the Anglo-Saxon runes alphabet from Denmark. Why not? The Qld Government uses white people and white spelling. The Butchulla mob aren't the Qld Government. It is Annastacia Pałaszczuk, Polish pronunciation: /paˈwaʂʈ͡ʂuk/, her father Henry Palaszczuk from Germany. Frank is French who borrowed German Franks. Some of them speak Latin.

chimera wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 5:26am:

'Eliza's tale was debunked by other survivors of the shipwreck, but it no longer mattered - the colonial narrative had been created for the Indigenous peoples, which in turn contributed to the entrenchment of harmful rhetoric.  For decades, the Butchulla people have lived with their home being named after the person that had contributed heavily to their own dispossession, and the personification of their people as 'savages'. https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/miranda-otto-on-kgari-and-correcting-eliza-frasers-remarkably-silly-story/nr5ibog44 Sydney Gazette of 1838 stated that her story was 'overcharged and contradictory'. Archibald Meston the Government Protector of Aborigines said 'her head was badly affected'. In England she was confined to a mental hospital.

A reminder of how awful mental health services used to be, yes

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 6:38am:

A reminder of how awful mental health services used to be, yes

No it's not. It's a reminder about the lies and dispossession from K'Gari.

Sophia wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 11:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 3:33pm: Fraser Island expected to be formally named K'gari as community consultation ends 8-) I like the sound of that name. It takes time to remember… like with Ayers/Uluṟu. I’m wondering… whilst Queensland support aboriginal renaming… Here in Vic it’s pulling away from aboriginal names! I’m absolutely against this taking away the aboriginal name of our hospital …. https://7news.com.au/news/vic/daniel-andrews-plan-to-rename-maroondah-hospital-after-queen-elizabeth-triggers-community-outrage--c-8295851 “The short story is Mr Andrews wants to rename Maroondah Hospital to Queen Elizabeth II hospital. Maroondah is a local Wurundjeri Woi-wurrung word meaning throwing of leaves. For some in the community, they found the replacement of an Indigenous-named hospital with that of our beloved late Queen a step too far.”

A reminder Dan is right wing :)

chimera wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:03am:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 6:38am: A reminder of how awful mental health services used to be, yes No it's not. It's a reminder about the lies and dispossession from K'Gari.

"lies" HAHAHAHAAA!!!

AH!!!

More sucking up to the nig nogs !

Tell them they lost whiteys won in 1788!

;D ;D ;D

Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:11am:

AH!!! More sucking up to the nig nogs ! Tell them they lost whiteys won in 1788! ;D ;D ;D

Again, I am thrilled that you have to watch everything you value burn to the ground, as I piss on it

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:07am:

"lies" HAHAHAHAAA!!!

thought you was anti fa , brudder.

chimera wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:17am:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:07am: "lies" HAHAHAHAAA!!! thought you was anti fa , brudder.

Why would you think otherwise, fa?

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:16am:

Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:11am: AH!!! More sucking up to the nig nogs ! Tell them they lost whiteys won in 1788! ;D ;D ;D Again, I am thrilled that you have to watch everything you value burn to the ground, as I piss on it

You again....wait and see your niggger lovers referendum fail miserably !!

;D ;D ;D ;D

Give them nothing take them no where as the saying goes!

Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:20am:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:16am: Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:11am: AH!!! More sucking up to the nig nogs ! Tell them they lost whiteys won in 1788! ;D ;D ;D Again, I am thrilled that you have to watch everything you value burn to the ground, as I piss on it You again....wait and see your niggger lovers referendum fail miserably !! ;D ;D ;D ;D Give them nothing take them no where as the saying goes!

Yes, I look forward to another reminder, like the marriage debate, that society hates you

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:20am:

Why would you think otherwise, fa?

You say 'lies.ha ha ha' about dispossession from K'Gari

Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:11am:

Tell them they lost whiteys won in 1788! ;D ;D ;D

Germans lost in 1918 and 1945.
And we're beating them in Bundaberg where they're dying under the attacks.
'Bunda is derived from the name of one of the kinship groups of the local Taribelang people, to which was added the German suffix berg, meaning "town". Bundaberg.

Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:20am:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:16am: Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:11am: AH!!! More sucking up to the nig nogs ! Tell them they lost whiteys won in 1788! ;D ;D ;D Again, I am thrilled that you have to watch everything you value burn to the ground, as I piss on it You again....wait and see your niggger lovers referendum fail miserably !! ;D ;D ;D ;D Give them nothing take them no where as the saying goes!

I've been on the fence but i've made up my mind. I really don't like you.

mothra wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:41am:

Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:20am: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:16am: Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:11am: AH!!! More sucking up to the nig nogs ! Tell them they lost whiteys won in 1788! ;D ;D ;D Again, I am thrilled that you have to watch everything you value burn to the ground, as I piss on it You again....wait and see your niggger lovers referendum fail miserably !! ;D ;D ;D ;D Give them nothing take them no where as the saying goes! I've been on the fence but i've made up my mind. I really don't like you.

Not a cooon are you?

;D ;D ;D

mothra wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:41am:

Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:20am: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:16am: Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:11am: AH!!! More sucking up to the nig nogs ! Tell them they lost whiteys won in 1788! ;D ;D ;D Again, I am thrilled that you have to watch everything you value burn to the ground, as I piss on it You again....wait and see your niggger lovers referendum fail miserably !! ;D ;D ;D ;D Give them nothing take them no where as the saying goes! I've been on the fence but i've made up my mind. I really don't like you.

Oooh!  AAH!  That must really hurt.................... stabbed in the heart by an online persona....

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:46am:

mothra wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:41am: Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:20am: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:16am: Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:11am: AH!!! More sucking up to the nig nogs ! Tell them they lost whiteys won in 1788! ;D ;D ;D Again, I am thrilled that you have to watch everything you value burn to the ground, as I piss on it You again....wait and see your niggger lovers referendum fail miserably !! ;D ;D ;D ;D Give them nothing take them no where as the saying goes! I've been on the fence but i've made up my mind. I really don't like you. Oooh!  AAH!  That must really hurt.................... stabbed in the heart by an online persona....

Says the guy who keeps making a fool out of himself calling himself a master.

I swear, if it wan't for your hypocrisy, there'd be little of you.

chimera wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:38am:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:20am: Why would you think otherwise, fa? You say 'lies.ha ha ha' about dispossession from K'Gari

English not your first language?

mothra wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:53am:

Says the guy who keeps making a fool out of himself calling himself a master. I swear, if it wan't for your hypocrisy, there'd be little of you.

He's deeply triggered I don't answer him.  It's hilarious.  I usually only answer him if I need to post to get past the glitch

mothra wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:53am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:46am: mothra wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:41am: Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:20am: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:16am: Redmond Neck wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:11am: AH!!! More sucking up to the nig nogs ! Tell them they lost whiteys won in 1788! ;D ;D ;D Again, I am thrilled that you have to watch everything you value burn to the ground, as I piss on it You again....wait and see your niggger lovers referendum fail miserably !! ;D ;D ;D ;D Give them nothing take them no where as the saying goes! I've been on the fence but i've made up my mind. I really don't like you. Oooh!  AAH!  That must really hurt.................... stabbed in the heart by an online persona.... Says the guy who keeps making a fool out of himself calling himself a master. I swear, if it wan't for your hypocrisy, there'd be little of you.

Them's big words, Pilgrim - you sure you know what they mean?

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 9:39am:

mothra wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:53am: Says the guy who keeps making a fool out of himself calling himself a master. I swear, if it wan't for your hypocrisy, there'd be little of you. He's deeply triggered I don't answer him.  It's hilarious.  I usually only answer him if I need to post to get past the glitch

I am your master, day and night, in everything you try on.....

What glitch?

Anyway - somebody tell the minority Cheers they lost in 1788 ... fit in or move out .....

Frank wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 9:08pm:

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 7:39pm: In my opinion, we shouldn't be totally erasing Anglo names that were given to geographic formations or localities that were—and are—historically important to the vast majority of the current and largely white (-ish) population whose ancestors originally settled here and made the country what it is today, shedding a lot of sweat and tears doing so. Why can we not simply hyphenate ancient and modern names? Kunyani-Mt Wellington; Moreland-Merribek; Uluru-Ayers Rock; K'gari-Fraser Island; Grampians-Gariwerd National Park; McKenzies-Mikunung Wira Falls; Tumbulong-Darling Harbour; Wadjemup-Rottnest Isand; etc etc etc. And if we need to get overly-pedantic about all this naming stuff, who gets the "right" to name something or somewhere? Consider for example that Mt Wellington, Ayers Rock, the Grampians, MacKenzie Falls, the Blue Mountains, the Olgas, and Rottnest Island were all in existence thousands of years before the Aborigines invaded the continent.       (Yes, yes... I know it's a frivolous argument. but all the same...) I object to Aborigines using the Latin, white European alphabet. What's wrong with using their own???? If they are really first nations they should each use their own first national alphabets. Not too much to ask, is it??

I object to Danes using the Latin alphabet.  They should be using Runes.  Any use of the Latin Alphabet indicates a paucity of national pride.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 11:39am:

Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 9:08pm: AusGeoff wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 7:39pm: In my opinion, we shouldn't be totally erasing Anglo names that were given to geographic formations or localities that were—and are—historically important to the vast majority of the current and largely white (-ish) population whose ancestors originally settled here and made the country what it is today, shedding a lot of sweat and tears doing so. Why can we not simply hyphenate ancient and modern names? Kunyani-Mt Wellington; Moreland-Merribek; Uluru-Ayers Rock; K'gari-Fraser Island; Grampians-Gariwerd National Park; McKenzies-Mikunung Wira Falls; Tumbulong-Darling Harbour; Wadjemup-Rottnest Isand; etc etc etc. And if we need to get overly-pedantic about all this naming stuff, who gets the "right" to name something or somewhere? Consider for example that Mt Wellington, Ayers Rock, the Grampians, MacKenzie Falls, the Blue Mountains, the Olgas, and Rottnest Island were all in existence thousands of years before the Aborigines invaded the continent.       (Yes, yes... I know it's a frivolous argument. but all the same...) I object to Aborigines using the Latin, white European alphabet. What's wrong with using their own???? If they are really first nations they should each use their own first national alphabets. Not too much to ask, is it?? I object to Danes using the Latin alphabet.  They should be using Runes.  Any use of the Latin Alphabet indicates a paucity of national pride.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

LOL!

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 10:16am:

Anyway - somebody tell the minority Cheers they lost in 1788 ... fit in or move out .....

The overwhelming majority try to, Graps.  However they are faced with Racism at all levels, yourself included.  Your use of the word "Cheers" to describe being one aspect of it.  I'm sure you find it personally amusing but it is just one aspect of the demeaning way they are held by many Australians, yourself included.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Maybe they should call it Koongari Island to please all you Koonn lovers!

Especially Mothra  :)

;D ;D

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 11:45am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 10:16am: Anyway - somebody tell the minority Cheers they lost in 1788 ... fit in or move out ..... They overwhelming majority try to, Graps.  However they are faced with Racism at all levels, yourself included.  Your use of the word "Cheers" to describe being one aspect of it.  I'm sure you find it personally amusing but it is just one aspect of the demeaning way they are held by many Australians, yourself included.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

I think it's good he tells people he is trash, so they know

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 9:38am:

chimera wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:38am: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:20am: Why would you think otherwise, fa? You say 'lies.ha ha ha' about dispossession from K'Gari English not your first language?

We'll get there in the end, very slowly.


FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:07am:

chimera wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:03am: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 6:38am: A reminder of how awful mental health services used to be, yes No it's not. It's a reminder about the lies and dispossession from K'Gari. "lies" HAHAHAHAAA!!!

So please write a little bit more to form a sensible statement.

mothra wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 11:41am:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 11:39am: Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 9:08pm: AusGeoff wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 7:39pm: In my opinion, we shouldn't be totally erasing Anglo names that were given to geographic formations or localities that were—and are—historically important to the vast majority of the current and largely white (-ish) population whose ancestors originally settled here and made the country what it is today, shedding a lot of sweat and tears doing so. Why can we not simply hyphenate ancient and modern names? Kunyani-Mt Wellington; Moreland-Merribek; Uluru-Ayers Rock; K'gari-Fraser Island; Grampians-Gariwerd National Park; McKenzies-Mikunung Wira Falls; Tumbulong-Darling Harbour; Wadjemup-Rottnest Isand; etc etc etc. And if we need to get overly-pedantic about all this naming stuff, who gets the "right" to name something or somewhere? Consider for example that Mt Wellington, Ayers Rock, the Grampians, MacKenzie Falls, the Blue Mountains, the Olgas, and Rottnest Island were all in existence thousands of years before the Aborigines invaded the continent.       (Yes, yes... I know it's a frivolous argument. but all the same...) I object to Aborigines using the Latin, white European alphabet. What's wrong with using their own???? If they are really first nations they should each use their own first national alphabets. Not too much to ask, is it?? I object to Danes using the Latin alphabet.  They should be using Runes.  Any use of the Latin Alphabet indicates a paucity of national pride.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) LOL!

Very stupid, Bbwianesque attempt at analogy.  Runes were not Danish but Germanic and Celtic, used from Ireland to the Baltics.


If Aborigines were serious about returning to their pre-1788 ways they would have developed their own writing system. But that would be ridiculous, of course, since they do not, and never had, a literate culture. Literacy is something entirely alien  to pre-1788 Aboriginality.

The spelling K'gari (pronounced gurri) is preposterous. Why not just write Gurri if that's how they say it? Are they catering for (the nonexistent) Kalahari bushman linguistic and typographic influences? Changing names is like pulling down statues by people who cannot sculpt them.
Add the Aboriginal name by all means. But going around changing names by erasing post-1788 names is deliberate cultural vandalism by people boiling with resentment.  Needless to say, most Aborigines do not speak or understand Butchulla, not even most of the Butchulla tribe.  Another gesture calculated to maintain division.  Bbwianesque.

chimera wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 12:25pm:

So please write a little bit more to form a sensible statement.

For this place? LOL

Frank wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 12:26pm:

Runes were not Danish but Germanic and Celtic, used from Ireland to the Baltics.

'In this database you can search on over 900 Danish runic inscriptions. Although the database itself is in Danish, there are English translations of the inscriptions'.

You miss the point that Latin alphabet is not Anglo Saxon, it came from Rome, the black fella Itie boongs who spoke Latin.


Quote:

If Aborigines were serious about returning to their pre-1788 ways they would have developed their own writing system.

Would you try to make any sense from that or just give up?

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 12:33pm:

chimera wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 12:25pm: So please write a little bit more to form a sensible statement. For this place? LOL

You mean you are senseless?
ok

chimera wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 12:35pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 12:33pm: chimera wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 12:25pm: So please write a little bit more to form a sensible statement. For this place? LOL You mean you are senseless? ok

It means I tried and it's not worth it

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:24pm:

Mount Isa Mines Rodeo with the Indigenous Rodeo Championships will be a cracker July 29, 2022 There will be a record number of riders to provide thrills and spills on the arena and then at night Guy Sebastian and Baker Boy will come out to rodeo rock at Isa aboriginal athletes aboriginal entertainers so much to admire renaming some sand...meaningless drivel

I agree, meaningless crap. They can rename what they like but Fraser Island and Ayers Rock are and will always remain just that.
They can stick their smoking ceremonies and welcome to country bullshit too. I don't and never will be welcomed to my country.

chimera wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 12:33pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 12:26pm:   Runes were not Danish but Germanic and Celtic, used from Ireland to the Baltics. 'In this database you can search on over 900 Danish runic inscriptions. Although the database itself is in Danish, there are English translations of the inscriptions'. You miss the point that Latin alphabet is not Anglo Saxon, it came from Rome, the black fella Itie boongs who spoke Latin. Quote: If Aborigines were serious about returning to their pre-1788 ways they would have developed their own writing system. Would you try to make any sense from that or just give up?

Runic and ogham alphabets
https://www.britannica.com/topic/alphabet-writing/Runic-and-ogham-alphabets

Latin alphabet, also called Roman alphabet... developed from the Etruscan alphabet at some time before 600 BCE, it can be traced through Etruscan, Greek, and Phoenician scripts to the North Semitic alphabet used in Syria and Palestine about 1100 BCE.
Ibid.


Anyway, I find it a little absurd that pre-literate people are appropriating what they never had (writing) to express their opposition to the cultural source (Europe) of that appropriated cultural artefact, namely writing.  And then mis-selling their own Aboriginal words.


It's like Jesus said onto Mary, "from now on you shall be known as Sharon"  ;D
https://youtu.be/XbY8MH1TpEw

Frank wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 2:27pm:

Anyway, I find it a little absurd that pre-literate people are appropriating what they never had (writing) to express their opposition to the cultural source (Europe) of that appropriated cultural artefact, namely writing.  And then mis-selling their own Aboriginal words.

mis-selling. mis-selling?
Where did they appropriate the Qld Government's writing?
What opposition are you meaning?
Who says that K'Gari is misspelt (or mis-pronounced do you mean)?

chimera wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 2:34pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 2:27pm: Anyway, I find it a little absurd that pre-literate people are appropriating what they never had (writing) to express their opposition to the cultural source (Europe) of that appropriated cultural artefact, namely writing.  And then mis-selling their own Aboriginal words. mis-selling. mis-spelling? Where did they appropriate the Qld Government's writing? What opposition are you meaning? Who says that K'Gari is misspelt (or mis-pronounced do you mean)?

Mis-spelling.



On what possible grounds is K'gari the correct spelling of a Butchulla word that sounds like gurri. What does K'gari add to gurri that gurri doesn't already have? Almost needless to say that the transcribing languages with no writing system of their own IS itself a European, not Aboriginal, practice.  So they still completely rely on European culture to erase European names and re-instate Aboriginal ones.

The Aboriginal word was carried verbally and still is. The Qld Government's writing is writing that's done by the Qld Government. You knew that.

chimera wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 2:56pm:

The Aboriginal word was carried verbally and still is. The Qld Government's writing is writing that's done by the Qld Government. You knew that.

Meh....  They are manipulating the Qld Government.


Ms Van Wamelen said the change would greatly affect Butchulla people. "It's showing that respect for us as Traditional Owners and acknowledging our connection to country, especially for those old people and the ones that aren't with us today who fought for a long time," she said. "For us to honour that and it to officially become K'gari is a very significant thing to us."



Nobody would object if they wanted to add the Aboriginal word to the island name, Fraser Island. Replacing the name for everyone is what's not right.   

Frank wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 9:08pm:

I object to Aborigines using the Latin, white European alphabet.

Frank Sep 24.
'It made him very popular with the international elite and, I have no doubt, in Beijing too'.

Chinese write in Chinese but Frank writes their word /beijing/ in the holy Latin gift from the gods.  I object to Frank being a white European when Trump is orange. Dunno what colour Chinese are or their funny scribble.  KEEP BEIJING OUT OF LATIN! 

Frank wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 12:26pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 11:41am: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 11:39am: Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 9:08pm: AusGeoff wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 7:39pm: In my opinion, we shouldn't be totally erasing Anglo names that were given to geographic formations or localities that were—and are—historically important to the vast majority of the current and largely white (-ish) population whose ancestors originally settled here and made the country what it is today, shedding a lot of sweat and tears doing so. Why can we not simply hyphenate ancient and modern names? Kunyani-Mt Wellington; Moreland-Merribek; Uluru-Ayers Rock; K'gari-Fraser Island; Grampians-Gariwerd National Park; McKenzies-Mikunung Wira Falls; Tumbulong-Darling Harbour; Wadjemup-Rottnest Isand; etc etc etc. And if we need to get overly-pedantic about all this naming stuff, who gets the "right" to name something or somewhere? Consider for example that Mt Wellington, Ayers Rock, the Grampians, MacKenzie Falls, the Blue Mountains, the Olgas, and Rottnest Island were all in existence thousands of years before the Aborigines invaded the continent.       (Yes, yes... I know it's a frivolous argument. but all the same...) I object to Aborigines using the Latin, white European alphabet. What's wrong with using their own???? If they are really first nations they should each use their own first national alphabets. Not too much to ask, is it?? I object to Danes using the Latin alphabet.  They should be using Runes.  Any use of the Latin Alphabet indicates a paucity of national pride.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) LOL! Very stupid, Bbwianesque attempt at analogy.  Runes were not Danish but Germanic and Celtic, used from Ireland to the Baltics.

Quote:

Runic Danish Old East Norse is in Sweden called Runic Swedish and in Denmark Runic Danish, but until the 12th century, the dialect was the same in the two countries. The dialects are called runic because the main body of text appears in the runic alphabet. Unlike Proto-Norse, which was written with the Elder Futhark alphabet, Old Norse was written with the Younger Futhark alphabet, which only had 16 letters. Due to the limited number of runes, some runes were used for a range of phonemes, such as the rune for the vowel u which was also used for the vowels o, ø and y, and the rune for i which was also used for e. A change that separated Old East Norse (Runic Swedish/Danish) from Old West Norse was the change of the diphthong æi (Old West Norse ei) to the monophthong e, as in stæin to sten. This is reflected in runic inscriptions where the older read stain and the later stin. There was also a change of au as in dauðr into ø as in døðr. This change is shown in runic inscriptions as a change from tauþr into tuþr. Moreover, the øy (Old West Norse ey) diphthong changed into ø as well, as in the Old Norse word for "island".

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Danish]Source[/url]

As usual it appears that Soren is mistaken.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

In Old Java language of Indonesia, ka 'before proper names of persons'. Ke is abbreviated to k' as in Kebo being K'bo, a royal title.
The keratuan 'royal palace' is abbreviated to kraton.

Ka Gauri was the white goddess who created the K'Gari island, mountains forests and flowers, with people having the gift of reproduction. She became the island. Gauri is the white goddess of India who as Shakti became the land of India and as Parvati of the mountains made a love garden for Shiva king of gods, for reproduction. Gauri Parvati was the deity of Javanese queens who were identified with the goddess in the 14th century.

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 3:24pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 12:26pm: mothra wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 11:41am: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 11:39am: Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 9:08pm: AusGeoff wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 7:39pm: In my opinion, we shouldn't be totally erasing Anglo names that were given to geographic formations or localities that were—and are—historically important to the vast majority of the current and largely white (-ish) population whose ancestors originally settled here and made the country what it is today, shedding a lot of sweat and tears doing so. Why can we not simply hyphenate ancient and modern names? Kunyani-Mt Wellington; Moreland-Merribek; Uluru-Ayers Rock; K'gari-Fraser Island; Grampians-Gariwerd National Park; McKenzies-Mikunung Wira Falls; Tumbulong-Darling Harbour; Wadjemup-Rottnest Isand; etc etc etc. And if we need to get overly-pedantic about all this naming stuff, who gets the "right" to name something or somewhere? Consider for example that Mt Wellington, Ayers Rock, the Grampians, MacKenzie Falls, the Blue Mountains, the Olgas, and Rottnest Island were all in existence thousands of years before the Aborigines invaded the continent.       (Yes, yes... I know it's a frivolous argument. but all the same...) I object to Aborigines using the Latin, white European alphabet. What's wrong with using their own???? If they are really first nations they should each use their own first national alphabets. Not too much to ask, is it?? I object to Danes using the Latin alphabet.  They should be using Runes.  Any use of the Latin Alphabet indicates a paucity of national pride.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) LOL! Very stupid, Bbwianesque attempt at analogy.  Runes were not Danish but Germanic and Celtic, used from Ireland to the Baltics. Quote: Runic Danish Old East Norse is in Sweden called Runic Swedish and in Denmark Runic Danish, but until the 12th century, the dialect was the same in the two countries. The dialects are called runic because the main body of text appears in the runic alphabet. Unlike Proto-Norse, which was written with the Elder Futhark alphabet, Old Norse was written with the Younger Futhark alphabet, which only had 16 letters. Due to the limited number of runes, some runes were used for a range of phonemes, such as the rune for the vowel u which was also used for the vowels o, ø and y, and the rune for i which was also used for e. A change that separated Old East Norse (Runic Swedish/Danish) from Old West Norse was the change of the diphthong æi (Old West Norse ei) to the monophthong e, as in stæin to sten. This is reflected in runic inscriptions where the older read stain and the later stin. There was also a change of au as in dauðr into ø as in døðr. This change is shown in runic inscriptions as a change from tauþr into tuþr. Moreover, the øy (Old West Norse ey) diphthong changed into ø as well, as in the Old Norse word for "island". [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Danish]Source[/url] As usual it appears that Soren is mistaken.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

:D :D

Bbwian rang a friend! Friend Wiki!!

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1664861603/92#92

There's a link there Bbwian, a couple of notches up from Wiki.

Anyway, aborigines had no writing. They need to rely entirely on the European artefact of writing to repudiate European cultural heritage. THAT is very Bbwianesque.

Your attempt to introduce a Danish angle based on runes is as idiotic as we have come to expect from you.

Most Danes were once illiterate too, once, Soren.  I don't hold it against you but you continually demonstrate it here, and now, all the time.  Being illiterate can be helped, just watch SBS-tv for the reading, writing show and they give you the helpline phone number at the end of every episode. What a shame that you often refuse to read what is presented to you.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 4:32pm:

Most Danes were once illiterate too, once, Soren.  I don't hold it against you but you continually demonstrate it here, and now, all the time.  Being illiterate can be helped, just watch SBS-tv for the reading, writing show and they give you the helpline phone number at the end of every episode. What a shame that you often refuse to read what is presented to you.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

That aphasia of yours is not improving, Bbwian.

Every population across the face of the Earth was illiterate in the distant past. EVEN the Irish, Bbwian.  Tsk, tsk  :P :P


But then the more curious and enterprising chappies invented all sorts of things. Some things that are more relevant to the environment than others. I can see how looking at kangaroos, the wheel and the cart are not things that naturally leap to mind. Other things, like writing, however, are not environmentally determined or relevant. So Aborigines never had the need for writing because their lives were far to confined and limited. Fine. Primitive, incurious, hemmed in by their own rigid, inescapable shackles of 'traditional' culture (VERY CONSERVATIVE, NO?? FORTY THOUSAND YEARS OF UNYIELDING CONSERVATISM. Positively Ur-Right Wing).

But then they get the boon of civilisation and SOME of them use these gifts to repudiate those who have given them these gifts. And the perpetually rancorous and resentful, like you, egg them on.

Frank wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 3:42pm:

repudiate European cultural heritage.

Eliza Fraser was ship-wrecked, which is cultural heritage. She was a liar and sent to a mental hospital. Heritage hospital, probably, but in England. Is that cultural, and if so why? The Butchalla have the amount of cultural dominance that Frank allows. Zero. But they can apply through government channels to the Place Names of Qld Dept Environment. Same as Frank can.

China had many inventions before Europeans had them, with writing. Many Chinese are very academic today, beating Anglo Saxons. Frank is arguing for Chinese culture in Australia to prevail by its superiority.

Frank wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 5:24pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 4:32pm: Most Danes were once illiterate too, once, Soren.  I don't hold it against you but you continually demonstrate it here, and now, all the time.  Being illiterate can be helped, just watch SBS-tv for the reading, writing show and they give you the helpline phone number at the end of every episode. What a shame that you often refuse to read what is presented to you.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) That aphasia of yours is not improving, Bbwian. Every population across the face of the Earth was illiterate in the distant past. EVEN the Irish, Bbwian.  Tsk, tsk  :P :P But then the more curious and enterprising chappies invented all sorts of things. Some things that are more relevant to the environment than others. I can see how looking at kangaroos, the wheel and the cart are not things that naturally leap to mind. Other things, like writing, however, are not environmentally determined or relevant. So Aborigines never had the need for writing because their lives were far to confined and limited. Fine. Primitive, incurious, hemmed in by their own rigid, inescapable shackles of 'traditional' culture (VERY CONSERVATIVE, NO?? FORTY THOUSAND YEARS OF UNYIELDING CONSERVATISM. Positively Ur-Right Wing). But then they get the boon of civilisation and SOME of them use these gifts to repudiate those who have given them these gifts. And the perpetually rancorous and resentful, like you, egg them on.

Danes were once Vikings.  They used to go adventuring, rather than sit at home and grow old before their hearths.  They used to rape, burn, pillage more established folks because the established folk sat at home and grew old before their hearths.  Time to grow up, Soren and stop wandering the world like a child.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

chimera wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 5:37pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 3:42pm: repudiate European cultural heritage. Eliza Fraser was ship-wrecked, which is cultural heritage. She was a liar and sent to a mental hospital. Heritage hospital, probably, but in England. Is that cultural, and if so why? The Butchalla have the amount of cultural dominance that Frank allows. Zero. But they can apply through government channels to the Place Names of Qld Dept Environment. Same as Frank can. China had many inventions before Europeans had them, with writing. Many Chinese are very academic today, beating Anglo Saxons. Frank is arguing for Chinese culture in Australia to prevail by its superiority.

I am sensing athos/great cleavage/random stupidity.

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:09pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 5:24pm: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 4:32pm: Most Danes were once illiterate too, once, Soren.  I don't hold it against you but you continually demonstrate it here, and now, all the time.  Being illiterate can be helped, just watch SBS-tv for the reading, writing show and they give you the helpline phone number at the end of every episode. What a shame that you often refuse to read what is presented to you.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) That aphasia of yours is not improving, Bbwian. Every population across the face of the Earth was illiterate in the distant past. EVEN the Irish, Bbwian.  Tsk, tsk  :P :P But then the more curious and enterprising chappies invented all sorts of things. Some things that are more relevant to the environment than others. I can see how looking at kangaroos, the wheel and the cart are not things that naturally leap to mind. Other things, like writing, however, are not environmentally determined or relevant. So Aborigines never had the need for writing because their lives were far to confined and limited. Fine. Primitive, incurious, hemmed in by their own rigid, inescapable shackles of 'traditional' culture (VERY CONSERVATIVE, NO?? FORTY THOUSAND YEARS OF UNYIELDING CONSERVATISM. Positively Ur-Right Wing). But then they get the boon of civilisation and SOME of them use these gifts to repudiate those who have given them these gifts. And the perpetually rancorous and resentful, like you, egg them on. Danes were once Vikings.  They used to go adventuring, rather than sit at home and grow old before their hearths.  They used to rape, burn, pillage more established folks because the established folk sat at home and grew old before their hearths.  Time to grow up, Soren and stop wandering the world like a child.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

They developed. Aborigines did not.

Chinese developed more. Frank's logic is Frank's.
(Frank and Adolf)

chimera wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:22pm:

Chinese developed more. Frank's logic is Frank's. (Frank and Adolf)

You tell us how that is relevant.

The Chinese developed a writing system. Aborigines did not.
So..... what exactly does that illustrate???  Do spell it out.

How is Frank relevant? Frank is a poster in ozpolitic, an infectious cess-pit of the highly developed.

'China had many inventions before Europeans had them, with writing. Many Chinese are very academic today, beating Anglo Saxons'. 

Frank says writing is crucial to Butchulla maintaining their island legend about the goddess K'Gari.  As the name was retained virginally and unsullied by Europeans for centuries, then writing was irrelevant, a fake development and not a Celtic tradition or used for Stonehenge apparently.

Frank wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:19pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:09pm: Frank wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 5:24pm: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 4:32pm: Most Danes were once illiterate too, once, Soren.  I don't hold it against you but you continually demonstrate it here, and now, all the time.  Being illiterate can be helped, just watch SBS-tv for the reading, writing show and they give you the helpline phone number at the end of every episode. What a shame that you often refuse to read what is presented to you.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) That aphasia of yours is not improving, Bbwian. Every population across the face of the Earth was illiterate in the distant past. EVEN the Irish, Bbwian.  Tsk, tsk  :P :P But then the more curious and enterprising chappies invented all sorts of things. Some things that are more relevant to the environment than others. I can see how looking at kangaroos, the wheel and the cart are not things that naturally leap to mind. Other things, like writing, however, are not environmentally determined or relevant. So Aborigines never had the need for writing because their lives were far to confined and limited. Fine. Primitive, incurious, hemmed in by their own rigid, inescapable shackles of 'traditional' culture (VERY CONSERVATIVE, NO?? FORTY THOUSAND YEARS OF UNYIELDING CONSERVATISM. Positively Ur-Right Wing). But then they get the boon of civilisation and SOME of them use these gifts to repudiate those who have given them these gifts. And the perpetually rancorous and resentful, like you, egg them on. Danes were once Vikings.  They used to go adventuring, rather than sit at home and grow old before their hearths.  They used to rape, burn, pillage more established folks because the established folk sat at home and grew old before their hearths.  Time to grow up, Soren and stop wandering the world like a child.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) They developed. Aborigines did not.

How do you know, Soren?  They may not have developed materially but how do you know they didn't develop morally/etc.?  Your ideas on most things appear to be Western centric ones, unfortunately.  I'm still waiting for you to reveal evidence that I have "characterised typical Australians as beer-swilling drunken yobs in blue singlets and thongs. As racist rednecks, white supremacists, Islamophobes..." Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Call it whatever you want.... It'll always be Fraser Island to the locals that use and love the place.
  ;D

How do the abos spell the word they want to change the name to?
Not the english word written in the title, but the native abo word.
What's the word look like?   ::)

They don't spell, they speak. Europeans hear them speak. Then they write down what they hear.  ;D That's what the word looks like. Listen  again  ;D

Although that's a Chinaman saying the word. They write and vote. No, just write.

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:50pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:19pm: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:09pm: Frank wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 5:24pm: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 4:32pm: Most Danes were once illiterate too, once, Soren.  I don't hold it against you but you continually demonstrate it here, and now, all the time.  Being illiterate can be helped, just watch SBS-tv for the reading, writing show and they give you the helpline phone number at the end of every episode. What a shame that you often refuse to read what is presented to you.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) That aphasia of yours is not improving, Bbwian. Every population across the face of the Earth was illiterate in the distant past. EVEN the Irish, Bbwian.  Tsk, tsk  :P :P But then the more curious and enterprising chappies invented all sorts of things. Some things that are more relevant to the environment than others. I can see how looking at kangaroos, the wheel and the cart are not things that naturally leap to mind. Other things, like writing, however, are not environmentally determined or relevant. So Aborigines never had the need for writing because their lives were far to confined and limited. Fine. Primitive, incurious, hemmed in by their own rigid, inescapable shackles of 'traditional' culture (VERY CONSERVATIVE, NO?? FORTY THOUSAND YEARS OF UNYIELDING CONSERVATISM. Positively Ur-Right Wing). But then they get the boon of civilisation and SOME of them use these gifts to repudiate those who have given them these gifts. And the perpetually rancorous and resentful, like you, egg them on. Danes were once Vikings.  They used to go adventuring, rather than sit at home and grow old before their hearths.  They used to rape, burn, pillage more established folks because the established folk sat at home and grew old before their hearths.  Time to grow up, Soren and stop wandering the world like a child.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) They developed. Aborigines did not. How do you know, Soren?  They may not have developed materially but how do you know they didn't develop morally/etc.?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Er.... no EVIDENCE.

Bbwian - no evidence.   

chimera wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:57pm:

They don't spell, they speak. Europeans hear them speak. Then they write down what they hear.  ;D That's what the word looks like. Listen  again  ;D Although that's a Chinaman saying the word. They write and vote. No, just write.

Ah... write down what they hear. 

Write down like they did for 40 thousand years before 1788? Or write down as they were.... er.... taught by Europeans?

chimera wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:57pm:

They don't spell, they speak. Europeans hear them speak. Then they write down what they hear.  ;D That's what the word looks like. Listen  again  ;D Although that's a Chinaman saying the word. They write and vote. No, just write.

So speak it that then.

It's spelt, in English FASER ISLAND.

Frank wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 9:03pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:50pm: Frank wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:19pm: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:09pm: Frank wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 5:24pm: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 4:32pm: Most Danes were once illiterate too, once, Soren.  I don't hold it against you but you continually demonstrate it here, and now, all the time.  Being illiterate can be helped, just watch SBS-tv for the reading, writing show and they give you the helpline phone number at the end of every episode. What a shame that you often refuse to read what is presented to you.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) That aphasia of yours is not improving, Bbwian. Every population across the face of the Earth was illiterate in the distant past. EVEN the Irish, Bbwian.  Tsk, tsk  :P :P But then the more curious and enterprising chappies invented all sorts of things. Some things that are more relevant to the environment than others. I can see how looking at kangaroos, the wheel and the cart are not things that naturally leap to mind. Other things, like writing, however, are not environmentally determined or relevant. So Aborigines never had the need for writing because their lives were far to confined and limited. Fine. Primitive, incurious, hemmed in by their own rigid, inescapable shackles of 'traditional' culture (VERY CONSERVATIVE, NO?? FORTY THOUSAND YEARS OF UNYIELDING CONSERVATISM. Positively Ur-Right Wing). But then they get the boon of civilisation and SOME of them use these gifts to repudiate those who have given them these gifts. And the perpetually rancorous and resentful, like you, egg them on. Danes were once Vikings.  They used to go adventuring, rather than sit at home and grow old before their hearths.  They used to rape, burn, pillage more established folks because the established folk sat at home and grew old before their hearths.  Time to grow up, Soren and stop wandering the world like a child.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) They developed. Aborigines did not. How do you know, Soren?  They may not have developed materially but how do you know they didn't develop morally/etc.?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) Er.... no EVIDENCE. Bbwian - no evidence.

You'd disregard it automatically, Soren.

I'm still waiting for you to reveal evidence that I have "characterised typical Australians as beer-swilling drunken yobs in blue singlets and thongs. As racist rednecks, white supremacists, Islamophobes..." Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Oh, they can spell and write now.... they've been under the Wharte Man's wing for long enough to develop basic skills... now they can put words into letters!  If they want an axe they can go and buy one.... no need to work out how to tie a stick to a stone... that tinny sure beats the old canoe and is a lot less work to get, too!

They can even get degrees and write signs for protests!!!

This IS progress!!  Where's the gap?  Anyone can do those things....

Brian - like Lefty (snuckles).. assertions are not proof..............

Frank wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 9:05pm:

chimera wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:57pm: They don't spell, they speak. Europeans hear them speak. Then they write down what they hear.  Ah... write down what they hear.  Write down like they did for 40 thousand years before 1788? Or write down as they were.... er.... taught by Europeans?

Europeans write down what they hear. You don't have a very developed sense of English. I could write again that Qld Government wrote the word K'Gari but you don't grasp the written word so I won't repeat myself.
----
Suggesting a place name or boundary change
You can suggest names for geographic features in Queensland that have no official name. If the feature has a commonly used local name, we will give preference to that name, if it is appropriate.

You can also suggest changes to locality names and boundaries if there are problems with the current situation.

Please read about the place naming process for information about how your suggestion will be considered.

To comment on a current naming proposal, see the proposals and decisions section. To share any research or information you have about the origins of an existing place name, please email qldplacenames@resources.qld.gov.au. Be sure to include references to back up any research.

https://www.qld.gov.au/environment/land/title/place-names/naming/suggestions

Captain Caveman wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 9:09pm:

So speak it that then. It's spelt, in English FASER ISLAND.

I just spoke it. You heard me. And I said FASER ISLAND as well.

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 3:47pm:

https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/thumbs/160/whatsapp/238/yawning-face_1f971.png Poor, poor, Aqua, weren't you consulted?  Was that because you weren't a member of the local community, which backs the move to a old name?  You need to climb down off your "alpha" high horse and rejoin the rest of Australian society.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Well I'm a member of that community & I can tell you that most people won't be calling it K'Gari ...

it will still be Fraser Is. or just Fraser.

Whilst the traditional name is spelt with a "K" ... & the K was always pronounced ....

the activists(many of whom do not live in this community) are now saying the "K" is silent and the name is pronounced "Garee".

Never mind there was no written language, now there's silent letters in front of names. ;D

Local timber producers Hyne & Son operated a timber barge between Fraser Island, up the Mary River to their Maryborough sawmill for decades it's name was K'Gari ....... the K was always pronounced.

A local Real Estate agent whose family I know very well secured an area of land for residential development at the seaside village of Boonooroo in the 70's. He consulted with local Aboriginals regarding the naming of streets and of note was the one given Fraser Islands Aboriginal name ...

and it was spelt "Kougari" and pronounced as Koogaree.

The whole exercise behind changing the name & it's pronunciation is an appeasing guilt trip & race based wank.

There are so many more important issues confronting Aboriginal Australians ......

like a statistic of 67% non attendance rate of school age children & teens from schools nationally.

Education is key to them changing their circumstances but all the luvvy lefties don't give a shyte about that....

just full of symbolic tokenism like this.

chimera wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:05pm:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 3:41pm: encouraging the aborigine to reconnect with his awesome roots and develop self reliance is what will see him back in an upward spiral Courtesy of Tourism Australia This week marked an important milestone for the Butchulla Aboriginal Corporation – which has been campaigning to change the name of Queensland’s Fraser Island to its traditional name, K’Gari (pronounced “Gurri”), for decades. The Queensland Government confirmed it has officially changed the island’s name to its Aboriginal name, which means “paradise” in Butchulla language.

It has only been pronounced "Gurri" in very recent times.

Prior to that local Badtjala pronounced it with the K.

And Badtjala language has had to be reinvented because it had been lost.

If they are going to go by traditional names then they have to cease calling themselves Butchulla ... that's an Anglicanised version ....

they are Badjala, Badjula, Badjela, Bajellah, Badtjala or Budjilla.

---

Gnads wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 4:40am:

Education is key to them changing their circumstances but all the luvvy lefties don't give a shyte about that.... .

Knowing about their country language gives them self-worth. Original place names also does which is why they ask for that. The change in that circumstance promotes positive actions such as education.

Frank wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 3:33pm: Fraser Island expected to be formally named K'gari as community consultation ends 8-) The general manager of the Butchulla Aboriginal Corporation, Chantel Van Wamelen, said the title change was a restoration, rather than a renaming. "It's always been known as K'gari to us and it's about the truth-telling too," she said. :o :o Is that the original Butchulla spelling of K'gari (pron gurri)? Is 'Chantel Van Wamelen' an original Butchulla Aboriginal name? Is that the traditional owners' original spelling of her name? What does it mean in Butchulla?

The Van Wamelens were a family of Dutch origin from Maryborough who fostered/adopted several Aboriginal children in the 60's & 70's.

random wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:11pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:07pm: Is 'Chantel Van Wamelen' an original Aboriginal name? Is that the traditional owners' original spelling of her name? I suspect her mother was raped by a Dutchman.  Rape was what happened after all the men were shot.  How else were all the mixed race children created?   Did you think is was from romantic love matches? What a racist ignorant khunt you are Frank.

What a lying, making it up khunt you are ....

The Van Wamelens were a well respected Dutch family in Maryborough.....they weren't rapists ... they were foster carers & adopted Aboriginal children.

chimera wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 4:52am:

Gnads wrote on Oct 6th, 2022 at 4:40am: Education is key to them changing their circumstances but all the luvvy lefties don't give a shyte about that.... . Knowing about their country language gives them self-worth. Original place names also does which is why they ask for that. The change in that circumstance promotes positive actions such as education.

Bullshyte - they don't attend education.

And the education they need is not about having Fraser Island renamed K'Gari

it's reading, writing, arithmetic education that gets them into the workplace & changes their circumstances.

random wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:24pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:17pm: random wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:11pm: Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:07pm: Is 'Chantel Van Wamelen' an original Aboriginal name? Is that the traditional owners' original spelling of her name? I suspect her mother was raped by a Dutchman.  Rape was what happened after all the men were shot.  How else were all the mixed race children created?   Did you think is was from romantic love matches? What a racist ignorant khunt you are Frank. If so, why does she keep the name?  Why does she have a white man's name? That's how white men attempt to erase the Aboriginal culture.  Stop them using their names, stop them speaking their language and convert them to Christianity while the priests farrkkk the children.  But I suspect that it's easier for her to get a job with that name.  Racist khunts filter out all the non-anglo names when the applications are received. Do I have to school you in everything you dumb khunt?

You're the only dumb khunt here.

You know phukkall ... just keep making up lefty wank lies.

Are you shytty no Priest ever phukked you so you could get on the compo gravy train? ;D

random wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 4:34pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:32pm: So she keeps a white rapist's name as her own to upset other whites??  Is that the old "Butchulla revenge? https://c.tenor.com/u0Eoa2CkXBcAAAAC/yep-nod.gif

Idiot

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 6:30pm:

Perhaps rave-on could explain to us how a surname is passed down to a child of rape??????????? That's a hard one, eh?

Graps ... there was no raping by the Van Wamelens.

K'Gari.
Many Indigenous languages abbreviate sounds in everyday speech.  It's like 'the Gong' for Wollongong, 'Maccas' for McDonalds'.
So, Narragunnawali is from the language of the Ngunnawal people of Canberra and defines them.
Anaiwan / Nganyaywana people.  Anaiwan / Nganyaywana language (D24) (NSW SH56-09).
For a long time Anēwan was regarded as unable to fit into the known Australian patterns of language. The seeming irregularity was caused by initial consonant loss in over 100 cognate terms between Anēwan and other languages and dialects of the region. The Ng is often silent.

random wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 6:36pm:

Gordon wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 6:35pm: When I got 4x4ing on Fraser Island , can I still use a dirty great big boongbar? https://c.tenor.com/DZmDkbi5otAAAAAd/filthy-frank-butthurt.gif

Still advertising your toothpaste I see. ::)

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 8:20pm:

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 8:03pm: Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 7:00pm: Ooooh, look - the Brittany Higgins case is on ... interesting - original statement that the woke up with him on top of her, has become she woke up with him raping her.... first statement never mentioned penetration. I smell coaching and maybe a little word-changing... Could you kindly tell us exactly what this has to do with the renaming of Fraser Island to K'gari?  Or is it simply a feeble excuse to jump on your personal, hateful high horse? I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if you could cease derailing threads on this forum—as you've done repeatedly in the past. Thank you. He's literal human garbage, glad some lefty woman got put in her place, and raped

She was working for your RW scum ... you dickhead.

Sophia wrote on Oct 4^th, 2022 at 11:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 3:33pm: Fraser Island expected to be formally named K'gari as community consultation ends 8-) I like the sound of that name. It takes time to remember… like with Ayers/Uluṟu. I’m wondering… whilst Queensland support aboriginal renaming… Here in Vic it’s pulling away from aboriginal names! I’m absolutely against this taking away the aboriginal name of our hospital …. https://7news.com.au/news/vic/daniel-andrews-plan-to-rename-maroondah-hospital-after-queen-elizabeth-triggers-community-outrage--c-8295851 “The short story is Mr Andrews wants to rename Maroondah Hospital to Queen Elizabeth II hospital. Maroondah is a local Wurundjeri Woi-wurrung word meaning throwing of leaves. For some in the community, they found the replacement of an Indigenous-named hospital with that of our beloved late Queen a step too far.”

It's still Ayres Rock to me &

Fraser Island is still Fraser Island.

Gnads wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 5:02am:

chimera wrote on Oct 6th, 2022 at 4:52am: Knowing about their country language gives them self-worth. Original place names also does which is why they ask for that. The change in that circumstance promotes positive actions such as education. Bullshyte - they don't attend education. And the education they need is not about having Fraser Island renamed K'Gari it's reading, writing, arithmetic education that gets them into the workplace & changes their circumstances.

So a way to improve education is opposed because they don't attend.
You don't really want it but just oppose them.

   Indigenous Australian students' self-concept might help to identify constructs that could facilitate Indigenous Australians' well-being and educational outcomes including academic accomplishments  .
https://isiarticles.com/bundles/Article/pre/pdf/61920.pdf

chimera wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 5:11am:

K'Gari. Many Indigenous languages abbreviate sounds in everyday speech.  It's like 'the Gong' for Wollongong, 'Maccas' for McDonalds'. So, Narragunnawali is from the language of the Ngunnawal people of Canberra and defines them. Anaiwan / Nganyaywana people.  Anaiwan / Nganyaywana language (D24) (NSW SH56-09). For a long time Anēwan was regarded as unable to fit into the known Australian patterns of language. The seeming irregularity was caused by initial consonant loss in over 100 cognate terms between Anēwan and other languages and dialects of the region. The Ng is often silent.

Errrrrrr..... no it's not. Don't go crapping on that the now silent K of K'Gari is now an abbreviation ;D

chimera wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 5:26am:

Gnads wrote on Oct 6th, 2022 at 5:02am: chimera wrote on Oct 6th, 2022 at 4:52am: Knowing about their country language gives them self-worth. Original place names also does which is why they ask for that. The change in that circumstance promotes positive actions such as education. Bullshyte - they don't attend education. And the education they need is not about having Fraser Island renamed K'Gari it's reading, writing, arithmetic education that gets them into the workplace & changes their circumstances. So a way to improve education is opposed because they don't attend. You don't really want it but just oppose them.    Indigenous Australian students' self-concept might help to identify constructs that could facilitate Indigenous Australians' well-being and educational outcomes including academic accomplishments  . https://isiarticles.com/bundles/Article/pre/pdf/61920.pdf

;D It's not a way .... it's just supposition by you.

You're just making shyte up.

Gnads wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 5:39am:

no it's not.

Why is the ng not silent?

Gnads wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 5:40am:

it's just supposition by you. .

https://isiarticles.com/bundles/Article/pre/pdf/61920.pdf

chimera wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 5:41am:

Gnads wrote on Oct 6th, 2022 at 5:39am: no it's not. Why is the ng not silent?

Why do you think it is?

Because the national register records it both ways. Local Anaiwan people tell me it's 'Anaiwan'.
Language and Peoples Thesaurus - AIATSIS Thesauri
https://thesaurus.aiatsis.gov.au › language › mtw
Search the AIATSIS local thesauri for place names, indigenous languages and peoples, ... Use: Anaiwan / Nganyaywana language (D24) (NSW SH56-09).
--------------------------------------

The effect on the people, by the Qld Gov :

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/93269
Kate Doolan from the Butchulla Native Title Aboriginal Corporation has welcomed the World Heritage Area’s name change to K'gari.

“On behalf of the Butchulla people we pay respect to our Elders who are no longer with us to hear this news,” Ms Doolan said.

“Today is a time of reflection for our people and for those souls who long advocated for such a meaningful change over such a lengthy period of time.

“BNTAC also looks forward to a positive future relationship with the Department of Environment and Science and the State of Queensland, to promote reconciliation by working collaboratively in partnership.”

Gnads wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 4:59am:

random wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:11pm: Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:07pm: Is 'Chantel Van Wamelen' an original Aboriginal name? Is that the traditional owners' original spelling of her name? I suspect her mother was raped by a Dutchman.  Rape was what happened after all the men were shot.  How else were all the mixed race children created?   Did you think is was from romantic love matches? What a racist ignorant khunt you are Frank. What a lying, making it up khunt you are .... The Van Wamelens were a well respected Dutch family in Maryborough.....they weren't rapists ... they were foster carers & adopted Aboriginal children.

Hahahahaaaaaa  ... snort ... did that family also help clear out the Aboriginal parents?  What happened to them?

Even the church ministers farrrked little children, turned out to be the largest pedo ring on the planet.

They could write, speak Latin and a bit of Danish. (Eliza Fraser not so much).

chimera wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 5:48am:

Because the national register records it both ways. Local Anaiwan people tell me it's 'Anaiwan'. Language and Peoples Thesaurus - AIATSIS Thesauri https://thesaurus.aiatsis.gov.au › language › mtw Search the AIATSIS local thesauri for place names, indigenous languages and peoples, ... Use: Anaiwan / Nganyaywana language (D24) (NSW SH56-09). -------------------------------------- The effect on the people, by the Qld Gov : https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/93269 Kate Doolan from the Butchulla Native Title Aboriginal Corporation has welcomed the World Heritage Area’s name change to K'gari. “On behalf of the Butchulla people we pay respect to our Elders who are no longer with us to hear this news,” Ms Doolan said. “Today is a time of reflection for our people and for those souls who long advocated for such a meaningful change over such a lengthy period of time. “BNTAC also looks forward to a positive future relationship with the Department of Environment and Science and the State of Queensland, to promote reconciliation by working collaboratively in partnership.”

Now you know why the Able BOdiedS were so easy to conquer... each little group wanted something the others had...  jeez - even them native police were just continuing their ancient tribal wars...  oh, well - should've reached a treatied settlement before going to war, eh?  Like Putin, would have been much easier to trade and negotiate...

Guess you lot can't see that, though ... no good demanding a treaty with menaces hundreds of years later.... too late!!  Besides - a treaty is a Wharte Man's Invention and thus is anathema to the Noble Native.

random wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 6:01am:

Gnads wrote on Oct 6th, 2022 at 4:59am: random wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:11pm: Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:07pm: Is 'Chantel Van Wamelen' an original Aboriginal name? Is that the traditional owners' original spelling of her name? I suspect her mother was raped by a Dutchman.  Rape was what happened after all the men were shot.  How else were all the mixed race children created?   Did you think is was from romantic love matches? What a racist ignorant khunt you are Frank. What a lying, making it up khunt you are .... The Van Wamelens were a well respected Dutch family in Maryborough.....they weren't rapists ... they were foster carers & adopted Aboriginal children. Hahahahaaaaaa  ... snort ... did that family also help clear out the Aboriginal parents?  What happened to them? Even the church ministers farrrked little children, turned out to be the largest pedo ring on the planet.

More assertions with no evidence to back them up... the strong suit of the 'woke'.

No evidence, just the cash.
Church in Australia has paid $276m in compensation to thousands of people sexually abused as children.

It seems they are church fathers or something.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:19am:

More assertions with no evidence to back them up... the strong suit of the 'woke'.

Woke = Educated.  You aren't.  No idea have you.

Institutional Child Sexual Abuse – The Indigenous Experience
By Alister McKeich

The Royal Commission

The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse was set up in January 2013 in response to the overwhelming evidence of abuses committed against children while in the “care” of institutions such as church-run homes, orphanages, foster homes and social clubs.

random wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 6:01am:

Gnads wrote on Oct 6th, 2022 at 4:59am: random wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:11pm: Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 4:07pm: Is 'Chantel Van Wamelen' an original Aboriginal name? Is that the traditional owners' original spelling of her name? I suspect her mother was raped by a Dutchman.  Rape was what happened after all the men were shot.  How else were all the mixed race children created?   Did you think is was from romantic love matches? What a racist ignorant khunt you are Frank. What a lying, making it up khunt you are .... The Van Wamelens were a well respected Dutch family in Maryborough.....they weren't rapists ... they were foster carers & adopted Aboriginal children. Hahahahaaaaaa  ... snort ... did that family also help clear out the Aboriginal parents?  What happened to them? Even the church ministers farrrked little children, turned out to be the largest pedo ring on the planet.

Change your name to Rick with a silent P, sleaze ball.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 11:49pm:

Brian - like Lefty (snuckles).. assertions are not proof..............

Oh, I generally agree but Soren gets what he deserves, Graps.   ::) ::)

Queenslunder:  "Watcha doin' this weekend?"

Mate:- "Gonna head off to Gazza after the cricket at the Gabba take the tin lids and better half and cut some tracks in the sand throw a line maybe.  You?"

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 12:43pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 11:49pm: Brian - like Lefty (snuckles).. assertions are not proof.............. Oh, I generally agree but Soren gets what he deserves, Graps.   ::) ::)

A few like that here - they earn the responses they get the hard way..... and then cry about it.