Reports filtering out from China indicate that major uprisings against Xi Jinping and the CCP have erupted across China.

The next week or two will indicate whether this is as serious as Tiananmen Square and, if so, whether the CCP will perpetrate a massacre of the protesting Chinese people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPRDLqggwQU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns-VBc56sBo

Very interesting. We have known for some time that all was not well in the peoples paradise, however it seems to be escalating to a whole new level.  One can only hope something good comes out of it.

Belgarion wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 12:29pm:

Very interesting. We have known for some time that all was not well in the peoples paradise, however it seems to be escalating to a whole new level.  One can only hope something good comes out of it.

The Jiang faction's bending the knee to the Xi faction at the recent party congress, allowing Xi to assume Mao-like power, was reported to be part of the Jiang faction's strategy to blame Xi and the Xi faction for all the anticipated social and political unrest then predicted to sweep China in the near future.

This will pivot on which faction ultimately commands the loyalty of the PLA - Given the Xi faction is enforcing the lockdowns, it doesn't look good for Xi.

Given Shanghai is a Jiang faction stronghold, it's likely too much of a coincidence that the most determined resistance by the people is centred there.

It's a good bet that the Jiang faction is covertly supporting the protesters.

I see the latest news of large protests across China calling for Xi Jinping to resign over the covid lockdowns.

Another Tiananmen Square in the making I wouldnt be surprised.

Perhaps the Chinese people haven't forgotten being starved to death by the CCP after all. Xi seems to be another Mao in the making.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-63771109

Protests against strict Covid measures in China have spilled into a second night and spread to the biggest cities.

Demonstrators gathered in the capital Beijing and the financial hub Shanghai.

Many held up blank pieces of paper to express their discontent and acknowledge the censorship. Some have, however, gone as far as calling for President Xi Jinping to step down.

Millions have been affected by nearly three years of mass testing, quarantines and snap lockdowns.

It is very unusual for people to publicly vent their anger at Communist Party leaders in China, where any direct government criticism can result in harsh penalties.

During Saturday night's protest in the city people were heard openly shouting slogans such as "Xi Jinping, step down" and "Communist party, step down".

Such demands are highly unusual in China.

But the government appears to have drastically underestimated growing discontent towards the zero-Covid approach, a policy inextricably linked to President Xi who recently pledged there would be no swerving from it.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 7:35am:

Given Shanghai is a Jiang faction stronghold, it's likely too much of a coincidence that the most determined resistance by the people is centred there. It's a good bet that the Jiang faction is covertly supporting the protesters.

Another factional motivation for supporting the protesters will be from the Hu faction.

Xi's public humiliation of Hu Jintao - whose support base was the Youth League - has its strongest support in Shanghai.

Goons promoting common prosperity and consensus.


https://mobile.twitter.com/whyyoutouzhele/status/1596815452654960640

I think it wishful thinking to believe the CCP is not in firm control of China. Its easy for them in a country without any accountability. Protesters will simply disappear.

Frank wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:15am:

Goons promoting common prosperity and consensus. https://mobile.twitter.com/whyyoutouzhele/status/1596815452654960640

Wow. Even when it is one small woman standing in their path, armed with nothing more than a phone camera, they still huddle together and gang up on her.

issuevoter wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 12:03pm:

I think it wishful thinking to believe the CCP is not in firm control of China. Its easy for them in a country without any accountability. Protesters will simply disappear.

No revolution or coup can succeed without the assistance of the military.

Within the CCP, there are factions that are bitter rivals - primarily among them all are the Xi and Jiang faction.

So, there are many factors.

First, which faction commands the loyalty of the PLA?

Would the PLA act against Xi or the CCP if commanded to support a coup?

Does the Jiang faction want to overthrow Xi, or just weaken him such that he becomes a puppet leader, with all blame for CCP failure deflectable to Xi?

How will the dice roll in the event of a coup? There's always the unexpected (and unintended consequences), and the Jiang faction could find itself also swept from power along with the Xi faction in the event of one.

What could possibly replace the CCP, and stabilise the country quickly, after its 73-year molestation and raping of the Chinese people, without the country tearing itself apart through separatist movements and acts of revenge?

The authorities must have their hands full because even tiktok is full of footage.

Gordon wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 1:03pm:

The authorities must have their hands full because even tiktok is full of footage.

Yes.

Either the sheer volume of posts has overwhelmed CCP surveillance systems, or the surveillance systems' operators and supervisors have abandoned their job duties.

I have seen much worse footage and far longer lockdowns out of Melbourne under the reappointed dictator there.

Johnnie wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 4:03pm:

I have seen much worse footage and far longer lockdowns out of Melbourne under the reappointed dictator there.

Did anyone starve to death due to being in lockdown in Victoria?

Did the police weld doors shut in Victoria?

Was anyone disappeared for breaching the lockdown in Victoria?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 27^th, 2022 at 12:12pm:

Reports filtering out from China indicate that major uprisings against Xi Jinping and the CCP have erupted across China. The next week or two will indicate whether this is as serious as Tiananmen Square and, if so, whether the CCP will perpetrate a massacre of the protesting Chinese people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPRDLqggwQU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns-VBc56sBo

Uprisings was Erupting Against
Anglo-Khazarian colonial rule and
two party cartell political system Across Australia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWfEvGWEgJ8

I am waiting for athos to make an appearance to explain what it is we are seeing here. ;)

Edit to add....and here he is!

Belgarion wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 5:39pm:

I am waiting for athos to make an appearance to explain what it is we are seeing here. ;) Edit to add....and here he is!

So what's the difference?
:)

Belgarion wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 5:39pm:

I am waiting for athos to make an appearance to explain what it is we are seeing here. ;) Edit to add....and here he is!

So what's the difference?
:)

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 4:16pm:

Johnnie wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 4:03pm: I have seen much worse footage and far longer lockdowns out of Melbourne under the reappointed dictator there. Did anyone starve to death due to being in lockdown in Victoria? Did the police weld doors shut in Victoria? Was anyone disappeared for breaching the lockdown in Victoria?

It's horses for courses, Dan had the longest lockdowns, most people shot in the neck with rubber bullets most people's heads slammed into the ground most injected in the world, they are not so open in China until they bring out their tanks.

The Western media seems to be cheering on these protests as if they're watching World Cup soccer.

If Covid cripples China's economy with it's 'flow on' economic effects to the rest of the world I wonder what the media will have to say (and who to blame) then?

I doubt it will be 'chirping crickets' from them like here in Australia because we are talking about... China.

Carl D wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 6:32pm:

The Western media seems to be cheering on these protests as if they're watching World Cup soccer. If Covid cripples China's economy with it's 'flow on' economic effects to the rest of the world I wonder what the media will have to say (and who to blame) then? I doubt it will be 'chirping crickets' from them like here in Australia because we are talking about... China.

The world needs the disease spreading polluting war mongering Chinks like it needs a hole in its head.

athos wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 6:03pm:

So what's the difference?

So, how's that explanation of cha bu duo going?

athos wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 5:38pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 27th, 2022 at 12:12pm: Reports filtering out from China indicate that major uprisings against Xi Jinping and the CCP have erupted across China. The next week or two will indicate whether this is as serious as Tiananmen Square and, if so, whether the CCP will perpetrate a massacre of the protesting Chinese people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPRDLqggwQU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns-VBc56sBo []Uprisings was Erupting Against Anglo-Khazarian colonial rule and two party cartell political system Across Australia[] []https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWfEvGWEgJ8[][]

Which faction do you support?

The Xi faction or the Jiang faction?

Johnnie wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 6:10pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 4:16pm: Johnnie wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 4:03pm: I have seen much worse footage and far longer lockdowns out of Melbourne under the reappointed dictator there. Did anyone starve to death due to being in lockdown in Victoria? Did the police weld doors shut in Victoria? Was anyone disappeared for breaching the lockdown in Victoria? It's horses for courses, Dan had the longest lockdowns, most people shot in the neck with rubber bullets most people's heads slammed into the ground most injected in the world, they are not so open in China until they bring out their tanks.

So, in Victoria, no one starved to death, was welded into their home, or was disappeared or burned to death in their apartment because all the building exits were locked, then.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 8:12pm:

Johnnie wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 6:10pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 4:16pm: Johnnie wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 4:03pm: I have seen much worse footage and far longer lockdowns out of Melbourne under the reappointed dictator there. Did anyone starve to death due to being in lockdown in Victoria? Did the police weld doors shut in Victoria? Was anyone disappeared for breaching the lockdown in Victoria? It's horses for courses, Dan had the longest lockdowns, most people shot in the neck with rubber bullets most people's heads slammed into the ground most injected in the world, they are not so open in China until they bring out their tanks. So, in Victoria, no one starved to death, was welded into their home, or was disappeared or burned to death in their apartment because all the building exits were locked, then.

come come meister

in hindsight, the lockdowns in victoria were brutal and ineffective.

victoria now has the same % dead from covid as sweden which locked down for not 1 day.  it was rediculous and embarrassing and thats why NO politician wants to talk about covid.

its Y2K nonsense on steroids

aquascoot wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 8:20pm:

come come meister in hindsight, the lockdowns in victoria were brutal and ineffective. victoria now has the same % dead from covid as sweden which locked down for not 1 day.  it was rediculous and embarrassing and thats why NO politician wants to talk about covid. its Y2K nonsense on steroids

It was so bad, the Victorian people dismissed the government of that day... oh, wait...

Carl D wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 6:32pm:

The Western media seems to be cheering on these protests as if they're watching World Cup soccer. If Covid cripples China's economy with it's 'flow on' economic effects to the rest of the world I wonder what the media will have to say (and who to blame) then? I doubt it will be 'chirping crickets' from them like here in Australia because we are talking about... China.

That's a rather narrow take on it. We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on?

freediver wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 9:35pm:

That's a rather narrow take on it. We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on?

The media are only interested in what gets people to buy "news" papers (i.e. read their ads) and watch the TV "news" (i.e. watch their ads).

As for the media having any human interest in anything you only have to look at how they're (not) reporting on Covid in Australia anymore - apart from trying to convince everyone the pandemic is over when it most definitely isn't. And mostly succeeding, at least from what I personally see and hear on a daily basis.

Joke of the week -

Zhao Lijian - the CCP's media stooge on the foreign reporting of the riots:

'China has always welcomed foreign journalists to conduct reporting activities in China in accordance with the relevant laws and regulations and has done a lot to facilitate reporting and provide convenience for them. At the same time, by conducting reporting activities in China, foreign journalists need to consciously follow Chinese laws and regulations'.

Never mind that 'laws and regulations' in China are so broad that they can be interpreted by the local Chinese plods in any way they feel like - including taking foreign journalists off the streets and bashing them.

Carl D wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 9:44pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:35pm: That's a rather narrow take on it. We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on? The media are only interested in what gets people to buy "news" papers (i.e. read their ads) and watch the TV "news" (i.e. watch their ads). As for the media having any human interest in anything you only have to look at how they're (not) reporting on Covid in Australia anymore - apart from trying to convince everyone the pandemic is over when it most definitely isn't. And mostly succeeding, at least from what I personally see and hear on a daily basis.

I highlighted the relevant part for you. Both the media and their customers are human beings. Not some small minded conspiracy. Why is it so hard for you to believe that people might have a genuine interest in the Chinese people's struggle against censorship?

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 6:10am:

Carl D wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:44pm: freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:35pm: That's a rather narrow take on it. We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on? The media are only interested in what gets people to buy "news" papers (i.e. read their ads) and watch the TV "news" (i.e. watch their ads). As for the media having any human interest in anything you only have to look at how they're (not) reporting on Covid in Australia anymore - apart from trying to convince everyone the pandemic is over when it most definitely isn't. And mostly succeeding, at least from what I personally see and hear on a daily basis. I highlighted the relevant part for you. Both the media and their customers are human beings. Not some small minded conspiracy. Why is it so hard for you to believe that people might have a genuine interest in the Chinese people's struggle against censorship?

Sorry, freediver.

After many years of watching your "interactions" with other members here my final comment in this thread is...

I'm not playing. Thank you in advance for your understanding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVtM7hIs41k

Frank wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:15am:

Goons promoting common prosperity and consensus. https://mobile.twitter.com/whyyoutouzhele/status/1596815452654960640

Er ...are they goons for promoting common prosperity and consensus?

Carl D wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 9:44pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:35pm: That's a rather narrow take on it. We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on? The media are only interested in what gets people to buy "news" papers (i.e. read their ads) and watch the TV "news" (i.e. watch their ads). As for the media having any human interest in anything you only have to look at how they're (not) reporting on Covid in Australia anymore - apart from trying to convince everyone the pandemic is over when it most definitely isn't. And mostly succeeding, at least from what I personally see and hear on a daily basis.

The media did not influence anyone I know.
Most people I know, knew this covid hysteria was horsehyte from the get go.
Most people know the media is nothing more than a propaganda machine. The footage at the beginning of covid backs the claim.

What you're seeing now is the sheep that followed the media into the sharps kit are now climbing back out and getting on with life. Basically ignoring their bullshyte.

The media were used in the beginning to create fear in everyone. It worked well, sill is.  ::)
They were paid extremely handsomely to do so. It had a purpose.
But just look at the amount of people today that call the MSM "fake news". It's a pandemic in itself.
The MSM couldn't keep the lie going without sheep wisening up and asking questions....and when those asking questions are silenced, ridiculed, shamed in the name of keeping them silent, it starts to raise eyebrows and garner more attention from the sheep, especially when six months down the track the MSM are asking same questions, or printing the exact claims that got silenced previously.

That's all I wanted to do... Ask questions. But I get called all sorts of names for it, not that I care what your, or anyone's opinion of me is.
Your best bet next time imo, because the next one is coming, is get out and ask real humans, real questions. The way it worked before social media came along.
Turn off that rubbish at 6pm. It will do you no good at all.

freediver wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 9:35pm:

That's a rather narrow take on it.  We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on?

No we are not. We are seeing the desire to stop being locked up by covid.

The government has to make the call on whether to let it rip, resulting in millions of deaths, or to maintain vigilance.

Captain Caveman wrote on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 1:26pm:

Carl D wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:44pm: freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:35pm: That's a rather narrow take on it. We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on? The media are only interested in what gets people to buy "news" papers (i.e. read their ads) and watch the TV "news" (i.e. watch their ads). As for the media having any human interest in anything you only have to look at how they're (not) reporting on Covid in Australia anymore - apart from trying to convince everyone the pandemic is over when it most definitely isn't. And mostly succeeding, at least from what I personally see and hear on a daily basis. The media did not influence anyone I know. Most people I know, knew this covid hysteria was horsehyte from the get go. Most people know the media is nothing more than a propaganda machine. The footage at the beginning of covid backs the claim. What you're seeing now is the sheep that followed the media into the sharps kit are now climbing back out and getting on with life. Basically ignoring their bullshyte. The media were used in the beginning to create fear in everyone. It worked well, sill is.  ::) They were paid extremely handsomely to do so. It had a purpose. But just look at the amount of people today that call the MSM "fake news". It's a pandemic in itself. The MSM couldn't keep the lie going without sheep wisening up and asking questions....and when those asking questions are silenced, ridiculed, shamed in the name of keeping them silent, it starts to raise eyebrows and garner more attention from the sheep, especially when six months down the track the MSM are asking same questions, or printing the exact claims that got silenced previously. That's all I wanted to do... Ask questions. But I get called all sorts of names for it, not that I care what your, or anyone's opinion of me is. Your best bet next time imo, because the next one is coming, is get out and ask real humans, real questions. The way it worked before social media came along. Turn off that rubbish at 6pm. It will do you no good at all.

excellent post captain

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 1:54pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:35pm: That's a rather narrow take on it.  We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on? No we are not. We are seeing the desire to stop being locked up by covid. The government has to make the call on whether to let it rip, resulting in millions of deaths, or to maintain vigilance.

The fact is the CCP will not allow western vaccines into the country and has lied to the people about the world's covid status - something the Chinese people discovered via the world cup being televised.

That is what is driving the current protests - CCP lies and the needless suffering it is inflicting on the Chinese people.

Most of the covid tests, enforced on people up to 3 times a week, are binned - not even processed, and a quota of health codes are turned red to give the impression that the system is working - that's cha bu duo in action.

One thing's for sure - the Jiang faction will be enjoying seeing that Xi and his faction are being blamed for the mess.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 1:54pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:35pm: That's a rather narrow take on it.  We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on? No we are not. We are seeing the desire to stop being locked up by covid. The government has to make the call on whether to let it rip, resulting in millions of deaths, or to maintain vigilance.

They have ony been locked up in China for a few months, whingers, Dan knew what to do.

Carl D wrote on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 8:56am:

freediver wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 6:10am: Carl D wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:44pm: freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:35pm: That's a rather narrow take on it. We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on? The media are only interested in what gets people to buy "news" papers (i.e. read their ads) and watch the TV "news" (i.e. watch their ads). As for the media having any human interest in anything you only have to look at how they're (not) reporting on Covid in Australia anymore - apart from trying to convince everyone the pandemic is over when it most definitely isn't. And mostly succeeding, at least from what I personally see and hear on a daily basis. I highlighted the relevant part for you. Both the media and their customers are human beings. Not some small minded conspiracy. Why is it so hard for you to believe that people might have a genuine interest in the Chinese people's struggle against censorship? Sorry, freediver. After many years of watching your "interactions" with other members here my final comment in this thread is... I'm not playing. Thank you in advance for your understanding.

Ah. You saw through my cunning plan of getting you to acknowledge that people who read newspapers are human beings.


Quote:

Most people I know, knew this covid hysteria was horsehyte from the get go.

You poor thing, surrounded by morons.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 2:24pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 1:54pm: freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:35pm: That's a rather narrow take on it.  We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on? No we are not. We are seeing the desire to stop being locked up by covid. The government has to make the call on whether to let it rip, resulting in millions of deaths, or to maintain vigilance. The fact is the CCP will not allow western vaccines into the country and has lied to the people about the world's covid status - something the Chinese people discovered via the world cup being televised. That is what is driving the current protests - CCP lies and the needless suffering it is inflicting on the Chinese people. Most of the covid tests, enforced on people up to 3 times a week, are binned - not even processed, and a quota of health codes are turned red to give the impression that the system is working - that's cha bu duo in action. One thing's for sure - the Jiang faction will be enjoying seeing that Xi and his faction are being blamed for the mess.

hang on there

chinas vaccine didnt work
they have an aged population

in what way is their lockdown any different to dans?

he used exactly the same justification , did he not  :( :(

aquascoot wrote on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 9:02pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 2:24pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 1:54pm: freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:35pm: That's a rather narrow take on it.  We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on? No we are not. We are seeing the desire to stop being locked up by covid. The government has to make the call on whether to let it rip, resulting in millions of deaths, or to maintain vigilance. The fact is the CCP will not allow western vaccines into the country and has lied to the people about the world's covid status - something the Chinese people discovered via the world cup being televised. That is what is driving the current protests - CCP lies and the needless suffering it is inflicting on the Chinese people. Most of the covid tests, enforced on people up to 3 times a week, are binned - not even processed, and a quota of health codes are turned red to give the impression that the system is working - that's cha bu duo in action. One thing's for sure - the Jiang faction will be enjoying seeing that Xi and his faction are being blamed for the mess. hang on there chinas vaccine didnt work they have an aged population in what way is their lockdown any different to dans? he used exactly the same justification , did he not  :( :(

The CCP has imposed lockdowns for 3 years.

Chinese people are required to mass test for covid at least 3 times a week.

The CCP has imposed quotas on families requiring at least 1 family member to be quaranteened (2 for a family of 5 or more), regardless of whether they are covid positive or not.

The CCP has refused to allow effective western vaccines into the country, choosing instead to use their failed locally-made potato-water vaccines.

The CCP arbitrarily set people's health code to red en masse - meaning the people can do nothing - not catch a bus, a train, buy food, or move anywhere outside their apartment sometimes for weeks on end.

Young children are being separated from their families because they have tested positive at school (at least that's what their families have been told).

The CCP's dabai (big whites) have been welding people into their homes and apartment blocks. Even fire exists have been welded shut.

Many Chinese people have starved to death in their apartments due to the lockdowns.

Many Chinese people have been disappeared for breaching lockdown.

Now we all know I've posted the odd Topic about China going 'Super Nova' (collapsing from within) with an almighty BIG BANG!

Just another day in the life of 'moi'.  ;)

Jasin wrote on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 9:54pm:

[]Now we all know I've posted the odd Topic about China going 'Super Nova' (collapsing from within) with an almighty BIG BANG! [] Just another day in the life of 'moi'.  ;)

Don't be so sure.

The CCP has the same psychopathic will to survive as it did under Mao.

A blood-lust fueled crackdown is almost certain if the protests come anywhere near the size of the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989.

The PLA senior command has previously stated that it would not intervene on behalf of the people in the event of political unrest (so much for the people's army), although it will depend on which faction turns out to have the loyalty of the PLA.

Given the degree of corruption within the CCP (which runs from the very top to the very bottom), every CCP official will be invested in a massive crackdown for fear of revenge killings against them for their corruption and brutality toward ordinary Chinese people.

I predicted 'long ago' (79% success rate ;) :D) that China would collapse within. The more it swells up like a Supernova, the more it will collapse from within - until BANG!
It explodes (off-gassing it's politics and military out into the void), to become a...  :-X

Jasin wrote on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 10:29pm:

I predicted 'long ago' (79% success rate ;) :D) that China would collapse within. The more it swells up like a Supernova, the more it will collapse from within - until BANG! It explodes (off-gassing it's politics and military out into the void), to become a...  :-X

So, you missed the reports on the Hong Kong crackdown, then.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 10:39pm:

Jasin wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 10:29pm: I predicted 'long ago' (79% success rate ;) :D) that China would collapse within. The more it swells up like a Supernova, the more it will collapse from within - until BANG! It explodes (off-gassing it's politics and military out into the void), to become a...  :-X So, you missed the reports on the Hong Kong crackdown, then.

You mean all the drug-addicts going nuts because the British Drug Dealers left?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 9:23pm:

aquascoot wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 9:02pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 2:24pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 1:54pm: freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:35pm: That's a rather narrow take on it.  We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on? No we are not. We are seeing the desire to stop being locked up by covid. The government has to make the call on whether to let it rip, resulting in millions of deaths, or to maintain vigilance. The fact is the CCP will not allow western vaccines into the country and has lied to the people about the world's covid status - something the Chinese people discovered via the world cup being televised. That is what is driving the current protests - CCP lies and the needless suffering it is inflicting on the Chinese people. Most of the covid tests, enforced on people up to 3 times a week, are binned - not even processed, and a quota of health codes are turned red to give the impression that the system is working - that's cha bu duo in action. One thing's for sure - the Jiang faction will be enjoying seeing that Xi and his faction are being blamed for the mess. hang on there chinas vaccine didnt work they have an aged population in what way is their lockdown any different to dans? he used exactly the same justification , did he not  :( :( The CCP has imposed lockdowns for 3 years. Chinese people are required to mass test for covid at least 3 times a week. The CCP has imposed quotas on families requiring at least 1 family member to be quaranteened (2 for a family of 5 or more), regardless of whether they are covid positive or not. The CCP has refused to allow effective western vaccines into the country, choosing instead to use their failed locally-made potato-water vaccines. The CCP arbitrarily set people's health code to red en masse - meaning the people can do nothing - not catch a bus, a train, buy food, or move anywhere outside their apartment sometimes for weeks on end. Young children are being separated from their families because they have tested positive at school (at least that's what their families have been told). The CCP's dabai (big whites) have been welding people into their homes and apartment blocks. Even fire exists have been welded shut. Many Chinese people have starved to death in their apartments due to the lockdowns. Many Chinese people have been disappeared for breaching lockdown.

think how much better for the citizens life would be if they had the right to bear arms

the second amednment is so important

Jasin wrote on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 10:40pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 10:39pm: Jasin wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 10:29pm: I predicted 'long ago' (79% success rate ;) :D) that China would collapse within. The more it swells up like a Supernova, the more it will collapse from within - until BANG! It explodes (off-gassing it's politics and military out into the void), to become a...  :-X So, you missed the reports on the Hong Kong crackdown, then. You mean all the drug-addicts going nuts because the British Drug Dealers left?

No, the crackdown against Hong Kongers protesting against direct rule from Beijing.

aquascoot wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 4:57am:

think how much better for the citizens life would be if they had the right to bear arms

In China that would lead to neo-feudalism, with warlords controlling vast swathes of regions and in a state of perpetual war against their rival neighbour warlords.

The CCP's control over China and the Chinese people is not a deviation from ancient Chinese imperialism, it's an extension of it.

Under the false pretext of egalitarianism, the neo-imperial families of China as established by Mao, have managed to complete what the former imperial families and pretender imperial families had attempted to do for centuries - impose absolute imperial will throughout northern, southern, eastern and south-eastern Asia.

The CCP's obsession with Taiwan and the lands and seas of southeast Asia is also an extension of an ancient imperial obsession thousands of years old.

As for the north, parts of eastern Russia are known in China as the lost territories and the Chinese neo-imperial families have not forgotten them.

Xi and his faction have responded.

The severe crackdown on protesting and protesters has begun.

It's a certainty that every protester who can be identified will be disappeared or have their lives destroyed.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/china-issues-grim-threat-this-is-going-to-be-very-ugly-212729695.html?utm_source=Marketing&utm_medium=EDM&utm_campaign=EDM&utm_term=News&ncid=newsletter_edm_uf9cw7lph94

"AFP
Wed, 30 November 2022 at 8:27 am·4-min read

China's top security body called for a "crackdown" against "hostile forces" on Tuesday, after a weekend of protests in major cities opposing Covid lockdowns and demanding greater political freedoms.

The stark warning came after security services were out in force across China following demonstrations not seen in decades, as anger over unrelenting lockdowns fuelled deep-rooted frustration with the political system.

China is the world's last major economy still wedded to a zero-Covid policy, which compels local governments to impose snap lockdowns and quarantine orders, and limit freedom of movement in response to minor outbreaks.

Anger over the lockdowns has widened to calls for political change, with protesters holding up blank sheets of paper to symbolise the pervasive censorship to which the world's most populous country is subjected.

On Tuesday, the ruling Communist Party's Central Political and Legal Affairs Commission called for a "crackdown" on what it described as "hostile forces" — a veiled warning to the protesters.

The body — which oversees all domestic law enforcement in China — also agreed at its meeting that it was time to "crack down on illegal criminal acts that disrupt social order" as well as "safeguard overall social stability."

Anger over the lockdowns has widened to calls for political change, with protesters holding up blank sheets of paper to symbolise the pervasive censorship to which the world's most populous country is subjected.

On Tuesday, the ruling Communist Party's Central Political and Legal Affairs Commission called for a "crackdown" on what it described as "hostile forces" — a veiled warning to the protesters.

The body — which oversees all domestic law enforcement in China — also agreed at its meeting that it was time to "crack down on illegal criminal acts that disrupt social order" as well as "safeguard overall social stability."

It's the largest display of social disobedience since the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and subsequent massacre at the hands of the Chinese government. Reacting to the warning, geopolitical analyst and author Peter Zeihan openly worried about the prospect of a violent crackdown in China's streets if protests persist.

"This is going to be very, very ugly," he tweeted."

The Dragon is showing its cracks again.... daily I get communiques from beautiful Chinese doctors, lawyers and professors wanting to get out ... and that's just the women in this gender confused time in the West ... one offered me $70m ...... no wonder the politicos and public servants all retire rich... and lady from Kazakhstan has bolted to Portugal.... safe ...

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 6:10am:

Carl D wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:44pm: freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:35pm: That's a rather narrow take on it. We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on? The media are only interested in what gets people to buy "news" papers (i.e. read their ads) and watch the TV "news" (i.e. watch their ads). As for the media having any human interest in anything you only have to look at how they're (not) reporting on Covid in Australia anymore - apart from trying to convince everyone the pandemic is over when it most definitely isn't. And mostly succeeding, at least from what I personally see and hear on a daily basis. I highlighted the relevant part for you. Both the media and their customers are human beings. Not some small minded conspiracy. Why is it so hard for you to believe that people might have a genuine interest in the Chinese people's struggle against censorship?

It seems highly symptomatic when China's confirmed Anglo enemies are suddenly so concerned about the welfare of the Chinese people.
Or maybe they were inspired by MI6 (ASIO) and their two party cartel directives?
;D

athos wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 10:31am:

freediver wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 6:10am: Carl D wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:44pm: freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:35pm: That's a rather narrow take on it. We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on? The media are only interested in what gets people to buy "news" papers (i.e. read their ads) and watch the TV "news" (i.e. watch their ads). As for the media having any human interest in anything you only have to look at how they're (not) reporting on Covid in Australia anymore - apart from trying to convince everyone the pandemic is over when it most definitely isn't. And mostly succeeding, at least from what I personally see and hear on a daily basis. I highlighted the relevant part for you. Both the media and their customers are human beings. Not some small minded conspiracy. Why is it so hard for you to believe that people might have a genuine interest in the Chinese people's struggle against censorship? It seems highly symptomatic when China's confirmed Anglo enemies are suddenly so concerned about the welfare of the Chinese people. Or maybe they were inspired by MI6 (ASIO) and their two party cartel directives? ;D

Well Athos, maybe the problem is that there really isn't the very 'Western' Anglo (Boris Johnson) or his little red Saxon (D.Trump) mate and Protestant (Scott Morrison) around anymore.
Instead, its back to the Mafia-Media's Fake Western Politics with the Blue 'North' Democrat Yankees (for want of slaying their Grey 'South' Confederate brother long ago like Smeagol killing his for the 'precioussss').

As for China. Well of all the nations on the planet who should be very strict on Covid... they are certainly being responsible about it on that level.

As we saw around the world during the first major Lockdowns - there were many 'political/military/religious' people who felt they were 'entitled' to be above and beyond any 'Medical' action.

athos wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 10:31am:

It seems highly symptomatic when China's confirmed Anglo enemies are suddenly so concerned about the welfare of the Chinese people. Or maybe they were inspired by MI6 (ASIO) and their two party cartel directives?

Ha ha! The ASIO thing! I've been told the wumao have a 'thing' about ASIO, now I read it here!

No one despised / despises the Chinese people more than their old emperors and the CCP.

Which faction do you support, Xi or Jiang?

As you're a Chinese natonalist, tell the posters here the meaning of cha bu duo and the corrosive effect it has always had on Chinese society.

I'll include a link to a Chinese rapper who sings about it - I like the line which translates to: 'cha bu duo, a deer is now a horse'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrqKvu-rqIc

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 11:12am:

athos wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 10:31am: It seems highly symptomatic when China's confirmed Anglo enemies are suddenly so concerned about the welfare of the Chinese people. Or maybe they were inspired by MI6 (ASIO) and their two party cartel directives? Ha ha! The ASIO thing! I've been told the wumao have a 'thing' about ASIO, now I read it here!

Not only wumao, but also me, because some great Australians like Whitlam and Don Dunstan found themselves on the list of "traitors" according to the warmongering "security" spooks aka as ASIO.


Quote:

No one despised / despises the Chinese people more than their old emperors and the CCP.

Insane comment. The goal of the CCP is a 'prosperous socialist society in all respects',  by the centenary of the revolution. 


Quote:

Which faction do you support, Xi or Jiang?

The goal will determine the policy which proves to be successful. Leave it to Chinese pragmatism.


Quote:

As you're a Chinese natonalist, tell the posters here the meaning of cha bu duo and the corrosive effect it has always had on Chinese society.

I'll pass on that, while China is building its space station and selling more EVs into the EU than any other foreign car maker...hardly the result of "that's good enough"...


Quote:

I'll include a link to a Chinese rapper who sings about it - I like the line which translates to: 'cha bu duo, a deer is now a horse'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrqKvu-rqIc

I'm more interested in the 'closing the gap' debate in Oz...today the Nats are saying a systems problem is responsible for the gap...amazing for a RW party to comprehend that fact.

aquascoot wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 4:57am:

think how much better for the citizens life would be if they had the right to bear arms the second amednment is so important

you mean....the c.30,000 gun deaths a year in the US are the way to a better life?

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 2:34pm:

Quote: No one despised / despises the Chinese people more than their old emperors and the CCP. Insane comment. The goal of the CCP is a 'prosperous socialist society in all respects',  by the centenary of the revolution.

Yes, of course, just ask them

The goal of the CCP is to subjugate the Chinese people and keep the new imperial families, as established by Mao, in power.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 2:34pm:

Quote: As you're a Chinese natonalist, tell the posters here the meaning of cha bu duo and the corrosive effect it has always had on Chinese society. I'll pass on that, while China is building its space station and selling more EVs into the EU than any other foreign car maker...hardly the result of "that's good enough"...

The only products manufactured to, with maintained, exacting standards are those overseen by westerners. All others are poor quality.

The police and the military will stop the protests. They know where their bread is buttered.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 3:04pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 2:34pm: Quote: No one despised / despises the Chinese people more than their old emperors and the CCP. Insane comment. The goal of the CCP is a 'prosperous socialist society in all respects',  by the centenary of the revolution.  Yes, of course, just ask them The goal of the CCP is to subjugate the Chinese people and keep the new imperial families, as established by Mao, in power.

Insane comment, from a blind "freedom" ideologue.

"All men must submit to rule of law, for all to be free"...Cicero

The jury is still out on the relative advantages of different forms of government ....even 2000 years after the Roman republic/empire.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 4:28pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 3:04pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 2:34pm: Quote: No one despised / despises the Chinese people more than their old emperors and the CCP. Insane comment. The goal of the CCP is a 'prosperous socialist society in all respects',  by the centenary of the revolution.  Yes, of course, just ask them The goal of the CCP is to subjugate the Chinese people and keep the new imperial families, as established by Mao, in power. Insane comment, from a blind "freedom" ideologue. "All men must submit to rule of law, for all to be free"...Cicero The jury is still out on the relative advantages of different forms of government ....even 2000 years after the Roman republic/empire.

Nonsense, parrot. The 'jury' is not out,  you commies are out -  to lunch.The supreme aim of the CCP - like all communist parties -  is to keep the CCP in power and in control China. Read Xi's speeches, he - and all his predecessors - made it clear.

Frank wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 4:48pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 4:28pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 3:04pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 2:34pm: Quote: No one despised / despises the Chinese people more than their old emperors and the CCP. Insane comment. The goal of the CCP is a 'prosperous socialist society in all respects',  by the centenary of the revolution.  Yes, of course, just ask them The goal of the CCP is to subjugate the Chinese people and keep the new imperial families, as established by Mao, in power. Insane comment, from a blind "freedom" ideologue. "All men must submit to rule of law, for all to be free"...Cicero The jury is still out on the relative advantages of different forms of government ....even 2000 years after the Roman republic/empire. Nonsense, parrot. The 'jury' is not out,  you commies are out -  to lunch.The supreme aim of the CCP - like all communist parties -  is to keep the CCP in power and in control China. Read Xi's speeches, he - and all his predecessors - made it clear.

The fake "freedom values" narrative.

Of course, if your goal is to engender collective well-being and prosperity, you have to remain in government, because government by elected individuals chasing their own self interest can never achieve common prosperity.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 4:28pm:

Insane comment, from a blind "freedom" ideologue. "All men must submit to rule of law, for all to be free"...Cicero The jury is still out on the relative advantages of different forms of government ....even 2000 years after the Roman republic/empire.

Insane comment from a lonely codger living a vicarious bromance with totalitarians, but lacking the nuts to live under a totalitarian dictatorship.

The 'jury' is not out regarding the gross disadvantages of living under the CCP.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 5:45pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 4:28pm: Insane comment, from a blind "freedom" ideologue. "All men must submit to rule of law, for all to be free"...Cicero The jury is still out on the relative advantages of different forms of government ....even 2000 years after the Roman republic/empire. Insane comment from a lonely codger living a vicarious bromance with totalitarians, but lacking the nuts to live under a totalitarian dictatorship. The 'jury' is not out regarding the gross disadvantages of living under the CCP.

Ignorant comment from an ad hominem oaf, and fake "freedom values" ideologue:

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/half-of-world-s-democracies-in-decline-intergovernmental-watchdog/ar-AA14IwKI?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=583e7d4d24784761ab8893190466b975

Half of world's democracies in decline -intergovernmental watchdog

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 8:15pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 5:45pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 4:28pm: Insane comment, from a blind "freedom" ideologue. "All men must submit to rule of law, for all to be free"...Cicero The jury is still out on the relative advantages of different forms of government ....even 2000 years after the Roman republic/empire. Insane comment from a lonely codger living a vicarious bromance with totalitarians, but lacking the nuts to live under a totalitarian dictatorship. The 'jury' is not out regarding the gross disadvantages of living under the CCP. Ignorant comment from an ad hominem oaf, and fake "freedom values" ideologue:

So you do have the nuts to live in a totalitarian state, then.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 8:16pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 8:15pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 5:45pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 4:28pm: Insane comment, from a blind "freedom" ideologue. "All men must submit to rule of law, for all to be free"...Cicero The jury is still out on the relative advantages of different forms of government ....even 2000 years after the Roman republic/empire. Insane comment from a lonely codger living a vicarious bromance with totalitarians, but lacking the nuts to live under a totalitarian dictatorship. The 'jury' is not out regarding the gross disadvantages of living under the CCP. Ignorant comment from an ad hominem oaf, and fake "freedom values" ideologue: So you do have the nuts to live in a totalitarian state, then.

Irrelevant comment, as expected  from someone who has to resort to ad hominems  'lonely', 'no nuts',  when he has lost the argument (re best form of government)


Half of world's democracies in decline -intergovernmental watchdog

Enjoy.....

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 8:24pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 8:16pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 8:15pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 5:45pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 4:28pm: Insane comment, from a blind "freedom" ideologue. "All men must submit to rule of law, for all to be free"...Cicero The jury is still out on the relative advantages of different forms of government ....even 2000 years after the Roman republic/empire. Insane comment from a lonely codger living a vicarious bromance with totalitarians, but lacking the nuts to live under a totalitarian dictatorship. The 'jury' is not out regarding the gross disadvantages of living under the CCP. Ignorant comment from an ad hominem oaf, and fake "freedom values" ideologue: So you do have the nuts to live in a totalitarian state, then. Irrelevant comment, as expected  from someone who has to resort to ad hominems  'lonely', 'no nuts',  when he has lost the argument (re best form of government) Half of world's democracies in decline -intergovernmental watchdog Enjoy.....

The usual profile of those who support (in their minds only) totalitarian dictatorships - lonely old codgers who think the world has let them down.

Let us know when you're posting from China; although if you did move, you'd carp at CCP officials so much about the lack of common prosperity there, they'd bash you out of sheer boredom from having to listen to it.

For Meister

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS8RRsAQE/

You can't make this shyte up...  :o



https://youtu.be/O-IfKlE9Yn0


The msm is your enemy.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 8:42pm:

Let us know when you're posting from China;

Lets us know when you are ready to engage your brain, my where-abouts is not the subject, I posted a link revealing the collapse in functioning democracies. 

Why are the democracies  declining?

Cicero said it 2000 years ago: "all must submit to rule of law, for all to be free"...

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, you deluded, fake "freedom" ideologue.   



 

Gordon wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 8:54pm:

For Meister https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS8RRsAQE/

Did they weld people into their homes in Canada?

Did people starve to death due to lockdown in Canada?

Did they disappear people who protested against lockdowns?

Did they arbitrarily remove people from their homes and send them to covid concentration camps,  in conditions that rivalled 3rd-world refugee camps, for weeks on end?

Did they remove young children from their families and send them to children's concentration camps?

One thing people have forgotten - in the initial panic in 2020, the world followed China's model of locking people down, particularly when, after a couple of months, the CCP lied to the world when it declared the lockdown 100% successful with Wuhan being covid-free, then orchestrated a giant pool party to celebrate.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 9:24pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 8:42pm: Let us know when you're posting from China; Lets us know when you are ready to engage your brain, my where-abouts is not the subject, I posted a link revealing the collapse in functioning democracies.

Let us know when your flight is booked for China and your bags are packed.

Codgers like you wouldn't last a month under a totalitarian dictatorship - that's why you need to make effete excuses as to why you need to live outside them arguing for their existence.

Gordon wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 8:54pm:

For Meister https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS8RRsAQE/

Showing your western privilege there.

Were your children removed from their homes and your custody to meet a government covid quarantine quota?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 9:25pm:

Gordon wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 8:54pm: For Meister https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS8RRsAQE/ Did they weld people into their homes in Canada? Did people starve to death due to lockdown in Canada? Did they disappear people who protested against lockdowns? Did they arbitrarily remove people from their homes and send them to covid concentration camps,  in conditions that rivalled 3rd-world refugee camps, for weeks on end? Did they remove young children from their families and send them to children's concentration camps? One thing people have forgotten - in the initial panic in 2020, the world followed China's model of locking people down, particularly when, after a couple of months, the CCP lied to the world when it declared the lockdown 100% successful with Wuhan being covid-free, then orchestrated a giant pool party to celebrate.

So Xi is a little worse than Jussie

Gordon wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 8:54pm:

For Meister https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS8RRsAQE/

Dan of the great white north.
As full of shite as each other.


Sad.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 9:33pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 9:24pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 8:42pm: Let us know when you're posting from China; Lets us know when you are ready to engage your brain, my where-abouts is not the subject, I posted a link revealing the collapse in functioning democracies.  Let us know when your flight is booked for China and your bags are packed. Codgers like you wouldn't last a month under a totalitarian dictatorship - that's why you need to make effete excuses as to why you need to live outside them arguing for their existence.

Just as I expected: in a professional forum that comment would be regarded as purely ad hominem.

Verdict: you lose.

Why are the democracies  declining?

Cicero said it 2000 years ago: "all must submit to rule of law, for all to be free"...

Gordon wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 9:38pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 9:25pm: Gordon wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 8:54pm: For Meister https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS8RRsAQE/ Did they weld people into their homes in Canada? Did people starve to death due to lockdown in Canada? Did they disappear people who protested against lockdowns? Did they arbitrarily remove people from their homes and send them to covid concentration camps,  in conditions that rivalled 3rd-world refugee camps, for weeks on end? Did they remove young children from their families and send them to children's concentration camps? One thing people have forgotten - in the initial panic in 2020, the world followed China's model of locking people down, particularly when, after a couple of months, the CCP lied to the world when it declared the lockdown 100% successful with Wuhan being covid-free, then orchestrated a giant pool party to celebrate. So Xi is a little worse than Jussie

How long do you think you could live in Canada as opposed to China?

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 9:39pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 9:33pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 9:24pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 8:42pm: Let us know when you're posting from China; Lets us know when you are ready to engage your brain, my where-abouts is not the subject, I posted a link revealing the collapse in functioning democracies.  Let us know when your flight is booked for China and your bags are packed. Codgers like you wouldn't last a month under a totalitarian dictatorship - that's why you need to make effete excuses as to why you need to live outside them arguing for their existence. Just as I expected: in a professional forum that comment would be regarded as purely ad hominem. Verdict: you lose.

A professional forum? How long have you lived in isolation from people?

You're a supporter of totalitarianism.

You're the kind who will leave this world as bitter as you have lived it.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 9:39pm:

Cicero said it 2000 years ago: "all must submit to rule of law, for all to be free"...

China under the CCP does not submit to the rule of law. The CCP rules by law.

It's not democracy that's declining, it's you.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 9:45pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 9:39pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 9:33pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 9:24pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 8:42pm: Let us know when you're posting from China; Lets us know when you are ready to engage your brain, my where-abouts is not the subject, I posted a link revealing the collapse in functioning democracies.  Let us know when your flight is booked for China and your bags are packed. Codgers like you wouldn't last a month under a totalitarian dictatorship - that's why you need to make effete excuses as to why you need to live outside them arguing for their existence. Just as I expected: in a professional forum that comment would be regarded as purely ad hominem. Verdict: you lose. A professional forum? How long have you lived in isolation from people?

The inference was "if this was a professional forum"...went straight over your head, of course I know ozpoliticis is not professional...


Quote:

You're a supporter of totalitarianism.

No, I support as much freedom as is compatible with rule of law...to achieve collective wellbeing and sustainable prosperity, for all on this finite planet.   


Quote:

You're the kind who will leave this world as bitter as you have lived it.

Another ignorant ad hominem (take it from me,, ..) .

You lose, again. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 9:59pm:

No, I support as much freedom as is compatible with rule of law...to achieve collective wellbeing and sustainable prosperity, for all on this finite planet.

By defending a regime that doesn't submit to the rule of law.

You know so little about the Chinese psyche under the CCP. China is the greatest polluter of the land, sea and air by a margin that beats all the rest of the world's pollution combined. Not much well-being in that.

Some people bring joy wherever they go - others leave joy whenever they go...

And so Jiang Zemin has died (aged 96).

His successor as leader of the former Jiang faction will be known soon enough.

Let's see what happens in his old stronghold of Shanghai.

There will likely be an upturn in popular resentment towards Xi and the Xi faction - Jiang's bitter enemies.

Hu Jintao is expected to be attending his funeral. Let's see if the Xi faction announces that Hu is 'too sick to attend' Jiang's funeral.

Would all this increase the likelihood of further protests? Likely, although more protests will undoubtedly sharpen the bloodlust brewing in the Xi faction for a Tiananmen Square-style crackdown.

All CCP leaders have loved the smell of blood on the streets in the morning.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 4:58am:

And so Jiang Zemin has died (aged 96). His successor as leader of the former Jiang faction will be known soon enough. Let's see what happens in his old stronghold of Shanghai. There will likely be an upturn in popular resentment towards Xi and the Xi faction - Jiang's bitter enemies. Hu Jintao is expected to be attending his funeral. Let's see if the Xi faction announces that Hu is 'too sick to attend' Jiang's funeral. Would all this increase the likelihood of further protests? Likely, although more protests will undoubtedly sharpen the bloodlust brewing in the Xi faction for a Tiananmen Square-style crackdown. All CCP leaders have loved the smell of blood on the streets in the morning.

well meister, in what way are western countries not also going down the surveillance and authoritarian route.

dan had old ladies knocked to the ground, the media banned from filming his police and police arresting a pregnant woman in her pyjamas for posting a meet up of concerned citiznes on facebook

we had the army locking aboriginals , 14 to a house in their un air conditioned homes in katherine in summer for a fortnight.

maybe we should clean up our own act

aquascoot wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 5:21am:

maybe we should clean up our own act

That's what elections are for. The Chinese people don't get that luxury.

As for lockdowns, that was a CCP idea rolled out in China in 2020 which, in the absence of any other plan, and in a panic, the world adopted.

Of course, the CCP lied to the world about the lockdowns' effectiveness, claiming China had eradicated the virus within 3 months; then organised a massive pool party in Wuhan to celebrate, and the world believed them.

Maybe we should treat CCP information, shitting its way out of China, with the contempt it deserves.

athos wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 10:31am:

freediver wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 6:10am: Carl D wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:44pm: freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:35pm: That's a rather narrow take on it. We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on? The media are only interested in what gets people to buy "news" papers (i.e. read their ads) and watch the TV "news" (i.e. watch their ads). As for the media having any human interest in anything you only have to look at how they're (not) reporting on Covid in Australia anymore - apart from trying to convince everyone the pandemic is over when it most definitely isn't. And mostly succeeding, at least from what I personally see and hear on a daily basis. I highlighted the relevant part for you. Both the media and their customers are human beings. Not some small minded conspiracy. Why is it so hard for you to believe that people might have a genuine interest in the Chinese people's struggle against censorship? It seems highly symptomatic when China's confirmed Anglo enemies are suddenly so concerned about the welfare of the Chinese people. Or maybe they were inspired by MI6 (ASIO) and their two party cartel directives? ;D

Where are you getting your looney tunes conspiracy theories from athos?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 10:14pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 9:59pm: No, I support as much freedom as is compatible with rule of law...to achieve collective wellbeing and sustainable prosperity, for all on this finite planet.    By defending a regime that doesn't submit to the rule of law.

Well done: you have decided to debate the issue, instead of descending to ad hominems when your "freedom values" ideology leaves you floundering.

Your assertion above (highlighted) is wrong. While I do look with interest to the Chinese model of achieving a "prosperous socialist society in all respects"  (and would like to see it succeed, as opposed to blindly defending it), your assertion that China lacks rule of law is absurd. 

Law is not dependent on blind leading the blind, adversarial parties who supposedly gain legitimacy via 'democratic' elections (despite the murder and mayhem surrounding these elections in many countries).


Quote:

You know so little about the Chinese psyche under the CCP. China is the greatest polluter of the land, sea and air by a margin that beats all the rest of the world's pollution combined. Not much well-being in that.

Now you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel, in a debate about models for achieving effective rule of law. China is already the world's largest renewables energy producer, and is rapidly moving to clean up pollution in the physical environment.

"Prosperous in all respects" includes "beautiful, healthy, green environment" as per the centenary goals (2049).
Of course lifting 1 billion people out of absolute poverty ASAP involved 2 centuries' worth of pollution in the West being concentrated into 3 decades of pollution in China, but China is now moving rapidly into the clean-up stage.

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 8:11am:

Where are you getting your looney tunes conspiracy theories from athos?

No conspiracies about ASIO, who are the looney tunes spooks looking for 'reds under the bed', wasting time and money spying on decent Oz citizens like Whitlam and  Dunstan (... dastardly LW anti-war "traitors").

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 10:47am:

your assertion that China lacks rule of law is absurd.  Law is not dependent on blind leading the blind, adversarial parties who supposedly gain legitimacy via 'democratic' elections (despite the murder and mayhem surrounding these elections in many countries).

Rule of law requires that all citizens of the state submit to it, as all parties within a democracy do. The CCP and its officials do not submit to, and are not required to submit to, the rule of law.

The CCP is riddled with adversarial parties that undermine each other whenever they can and disappear or imprison those rivals whose power and influence weaken to the point that the dominant faction can successfully disappear/imprison them without serious consequences or reprisals.

In China under the CCP, the law is applied to those whom the dominant faction wants to be removed. This is how Xi removed many of his rivals - by accusing them of corruption, (despite the fact that the Chinese practice of guanxi necessarily requires the capacity and willingness to act corruptly). No Xi-faction member in favour has been accused of corruption.

Rule of law also requires that the judicial system is independent of influence and control from the political process. In China, the CCP instructs the judge on the required outcome and the sentence.

So, you see, you support a system devised by a people you have no comprehension of - a lonely old codger with a teenager's understanding of his pet subject.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 10:47am:

Now you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel, in a debate about models for achieving effective rule of law. China is already the world's largest renewables energy producer, and is rapidly moving to clean up pollution in the physical environment. "Prosperous in all respects" includes "beautiful, healthy, green environment" as per the centenary goals (2049). Of course lifting 1 billion people out of absolute poverty ASAP involved 2 centuries' worth of pollution in the West being concentrated into 3 decades of pollution in China, but China is now moving rapidly into the clean-up stage.

No it's not. The only stats available are published by the CCP and are unverifiable.

The CCP has not etradicated absolute poverty - not even close - poverty is rampant outside certain parts of Tier 1 cities. The quota system created by Mao is predicated on cha bu duo - i.e. as long as the relevant authorities report that quotas are met, no independent audits will be conducted to prove the quotas have actually been met.

Again your lack of comprehension of cha bu duo means that you have no idea that many 'windfarms' and 'solar farms' are built to look like what they're supposed to be - they are for show and do not function as such, being powered by electrcity produced by coal-burning power stattions to add to the impression that they are operational.

Have you ever met anyone who has lived in and travelled through China?

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 8:11am:

athos wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 10:31am: freediver wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 6:10am: Carl D wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:44pm: freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:35pm: That's a rather narrow take on it. We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on? The media are only interested in what gets people to buy "news" papers (i.e. read their ads) and watch the TV "news" (i.e. watch their ads). As for the media having any human interest in anything you only have to look at how they're (not) reporting on Covid in Australia anymore - apart from trying to convince everyone the pandemic is over when it most definitely isn't. And mostly succeeding, at least from what I personally see and hear on a daily basis. I highlighted the relevant part for you. Both the media and their customers are human beings. Not some small minded conspiracy. Why is it so hard for you to believe that people might have a genuine interest in the Chinese people's struggle against censorship? It seems highly symptomatic when China's confirmed Anglo enemies are suddenly so concerned about the welfare of the Chinese people. Or maybe they were inspired by MI6 (ASIO) and their two party cartel directives? ;D Where are you getting your looney tunes conspiracy theories from athos?

What are the "conspiracy theories" that Athos said? Please be specific. Thank you.
:)

athos wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 11:50am:

What are the "conspiracy theories" that Athos said? Please be specific. Thank you.

How's that explanation of cha bu duo, from a Chinese nationalist's perspective, going?

You must have written a book on it by now.

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 8:11am:

athos wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 10:31am: freediver wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 6:10am: Carl D wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:44pm: freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:35pm: That's a rather narrow take on it. We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on? The media are only interested in what gets people to buy "news" papers (i.e. read their ads) and watch the TV "news" (i.e. watch their ads). As for the media having any human interest in anything you only have to look at how they're (not) reporting on Covid in Australia anymore - apart from trying to convince everyone the pandemic is over when it most definitely isn't. And mostly succeeding, at least from what I personally see and hear on a daily basis. I highlighted the relevant part for you. Both the media and their customers are human beings. Not some small minded conspiracy. Why is it so hard for you to believe that people might have a genuine interest in the Chinese people's struggle against censorship? It seems highly symptomatic when China's confirmed Anglo enemies are suddenly so concerned about the welfare of the Chinese people. Or maybe they were inspired by MI6 (ASIO) and their two party cartel directives? ;D Where are you getting your looney tunes conspiracy theories from athos?

Is this athos conspiracy theory?

Boris Johnson admits His Khazarian
Family Roots Trace Back to Moscow Rabbi

Former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson said on Wednesday, speaking in a synagogue, that his family roots "traced back to a Rabbi in Moscow," according to a Jewish newspaper in Britain.

Johnson was visiting a synagogue in his constituency of Uxbridge and South Ruislip, the media said.
The former prime minister also reaffirmed that he would "absolutely" run for the parliamentary seat in the next elections, the Jewish Times reported. He also promised to support the current government of Rishi Sunak, noting, however, that the Tories' decision to oust him was a "mistake."
On July 7, Johnson announced his intention to step down as UK Prime Minister due to accusations of violating COVID-19 regulations and sexual assault claims against Government Deputy Chief Whip Christopher Pincher, whom he had personally vetted.

https://sputniknews.com/20221130/boris-johnson-says-his-family-roots-trace-back-to-moscow-rabbi-1104909587.html

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 11:58am:

athos wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 11:50am: What are the "conspiracy theories" that Athos said? Please be specific. Thank you. How's that explanation of cha bu duo, from a Chinese nationalist's perspective, going? You must have written a book on it by now.

That doesn't answer my question.
:)

athos wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 12:29pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 11:58am: athos wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 11:50am: What are the "conspiracy theories" that Athos said? Please be specific. Thank you. How's that explanation of cha bu duo, from a Chinese nationalist's perspective, going? You must have written a book on it by now. That doesn't answer my question.

It would shine a spotlight on the fact that Chinese nationalists' greatest fear is the exposure of the CCP's deceitful incompetence in its governance of the Chinese people.

athos wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 11:50am:

freediver wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 8:11am: athos wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 10:31am: freediver wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 6:10am: Carl D wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:44pm: freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:35pm: That's a rather narrow take on it. We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on? The media are only interested in what gets people to buy "news" papers (i.e. read their ads) and watch the TV "news" (i.e. watch their ads). As for the media having any human interest in anything you only have to look at how they're (not) reporting on Covid in Australia anymore - apart from trying to convince everyone the pandemic is over when it most definitely isn't. And mostly succeeding, at least from what I personally see and hear on a daily basis. I highlighted the relevant part for you. Both the media and their customers are human beings. Not some small minded conspiracy. Why is it so hard for you to believe that people might have a genuine interest in the Chinese people's struggle against censorship? It seems highly symptomatic when China's confirmed Anglo enemies are suddenly so concerned about the welfare of the Chinese people. Or maybe they were inspired by MI6 (ASIO) and their two party cartel directives? ;D Where are you getting your looney tunes conspiracy theories from athos? What are the "conspiracy theories" that Athos said? Please be specific. Thank you. :)

That our concern for the rights and freedoms of Chinese people is just some kind of facade for our real concern. Not sure what you think that is. It's your conspiracy theory.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 11:16am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 10:47am: your assertion that China lacks rule of law is absurd.  Law is not dependent on blind leading the blind, adversarial parties who supposedly gain legitimacy via 'democratic' elections (despite the murder and mayhem surrounding these elections in many countries). Rule of law requires that all citizens of the state submit to it, as all parties within a democracy do. The CCP and its officials do not submit to, and are not required to submit to, the rule of law.

The CCP composed the original Chinese constitution, to which all citizens must submit (which is why Xi has spent much time weeding out corruption, a problem faced by all governments).   Naturally, the constitution can be changed by consensus, with input from all citizens since all citizens can enter government based on merit (hence 'consensus meritocracy').   


Quote:

The CCP is riddled with adversarial parties that undermine each other whenever they can

oh dear, don't look in the mirror....you will see adversarial parties wasting time attacking one-another...reversing the other mob's policies, creating chaotic development and policy gridlock.


Quote:

and disappear or imprison those rivals whose power and influence weaken to the point that the dominant faction can successfully disappear/imprison them without serious consequences or reprisals.

I think you are describing corruption and greed, universals in any government.


Quote:

In China under the CCP, the law is applied to those whom the dominant faction wants to be removed. This is how Xi removed many of his rivals - by accusing them of corruption, (despite the fact that the Chinese practice of guanxi necessarily requires the capacity and willingness to act corruptly). No Xi-faction member in favour has been accused of corruption.

Is Xi corrupt?


Quote:

Rule of law also requires that the judicial system is independent of influence and control from the political process. In China, the CCP instructs the judge on the required outcome and the sentence.

Naughty of the CCP...like a governing party instructing judges to jail whistle-blowers....


Quote:

So, you see, you support a system devised by a people you have no comprehension of - a lonely old codger with a teenager's understanding of his pet subject.

Refuted above.

athos wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 12:23pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 8:11am: athos wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 10:31am: freediver wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 6:10am: Carl D wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:44pm: freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 9:35pm: That's a rather narrow take on it. We are seeing the struggle for freedom and democracy unfold right before our eyes, and you think it only matters if it affects exports. Do you think the media and their readers might have an actual human interest in what is going on? The media are only interested in what gets people to buy "news" papers (i.e. read their ads) and watch the TV "news" (i.e. watch their ads). As for the media having any human interest in anything you only have to look at how they're (not) reporting on Covid in Australia anymore - apart from trying to convince everyone the pandemic is over when it most definitely isn't. And mostly succeeding, at least from what I personally see and hear on a daily basis. I highlighted the relevant part for you. Both the media and their customers are human beings. Not some small minded conspiracy. Why is it so hard for you to believe that people might have a genuine interest in the Chinese people's struggle against censorship? It seems highly symptomatic when China's confirmed Anglo enemies are suddenly so concerned about the welfare of the Chinese people. Or maybe they were inspired by MI6 (ASIO) and their two party cartel directives? ;D Where are you getting your looney tunes conspiracy theories from athos? Is this athos conspiracy theory? Boris Johnson admits His Khazarian Family Roots Trace Back to Moscow Rabbi Former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson said on Wednesday, speaking in a synagogue, that his family roots "traced back to a Rabbi in Moscow," according to a Jewish newspaper in Britain. Johnson was visiting a synagogue in his constituency of Uxbridge and South Ruislip, the media said. The former prime minister also reaffirmed that he would "absolutely" run for the parliamentary seat in the next elections, the Jewish Times reported. He also promised to support the current government of Rishi Sunak, noting, however, that the Tories' decision to oust him was a "mistake." On July 7, Johnson announced his intention to step down as UK Prime Minister due to accusations of violating COVID-19 regulations and sexual assault claims against Government Deputy Chief Whip Christopher Pincher, whom he had personally vetted. https://sputniknews.com/20221130/boris-johnson-says-his-family-roots-trace-back-to-moscow-rabbi-1104909587.html

Who do you think you are? From 2014:

Boris Johnson compares himself to a jar of honey found on a supermarket shelf - 'the product of many countries'. He thinks he is part Jewish, part French, part English, part American, part pterodactyl and, unpredictably, part Turkish.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/whodoyouthinkyouare/past-stories/boris-johnson.shtml

https://www.bbc.co.uk/whodoyouthinkyouare/past-stories/boris-how-we-did-it_1.shtml

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 1:18pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 11:16am: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 10:47am: your assertion that China lacks rule of law is absurd.  Law is not dependent on blind leading the blind, adversarial parties who supposedly gain legitimacy via 'democratic' elections (despite the murder and mayhem surrounding these elections in many countries). Rule of law requires that all citizens of the state submit to it, as all parties within a democracy do. The CCP and its officials do not submit to, and are not required to submit to, the rule of law. The CCP composed the original Chinese constitution, to which all citizens must submit (which is why Xi has spent much time weeding out corruption, a problem faced by all governments).   Naturally, the constitution can be changed by consensus, with input from all citizens since all citizens can enter government based on merit (hence 'consensus meritocracy').    Quote: The CCP is riddled with adversarial parties that undermine each other whenever they can oh dear, don't look in the mirror....you will see adversarial parties wasting time attacking one-another...reversing the other mob's policies, creating chaotic development and policy gridlock. [quote]and disappear or imprison those rivals whose power and influence weaken to the point that the dominant faction can successfully disappear/imprison them without serious consequences or reprisals.

I think you are describing corruption and greed, universals in any government.


Quote:

In China under the CCP, the law is applied to those whom the dominant faction wants to be removed. This is how Xi removed many of his rivals - by accusing them of corruption, (despite the fact that the Chinese practice of guanxi necessarily requires the capacity and willingness to act corruptly). No Xi-faction member in favour has been accused of corruption.

Is Xi corrupt?


Quote:

Rule of law also requires that the judicial system is independent of influence and control from the political process. In China, the CCP instructs the judge on the required outcome and the sentence.

Naughty of the CCP...like a governing party instructing judges to jail whistle-blowers....


Quote:

So, you see, you support a system devised by a people you have no comprehension of - a lonely old codger with a teenager's understanding of his pet subject.

Refuted above.
[/quote]
The CCP's constitution has just been changed to allow Xi to effectively become president for life and, despite vehement resistance from the Jiang faction, cries of 'mayo' were heard from the vote counters of the dissenters.

The rule of law does not apply to the CCP. The party is sovereign and its apparatchiks are protected by the party's sovereignty.

No judge in China is free to determine the guilt or innocence of anyone before the courts in China. Guilt and penalties are determined by the CCP, prior to the case being heard, and handed to the judge. Even the defendant's advocate is not allowed to mount a convincing defence against the accused- Cha bu duo, legal style.

So, you see, you support a system devised by a people you have no comprehension of - a lonely old codger with a teenager's understanding of his pet subject.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 1:35pm:

The CCP's constitution has just been changed to allow Xi to effectively become president for life and, despite vehement resistance from the Jiang faction, cries of 'mayo' were heard from the vote counters of the dissenters.

Yes, constitutions can be changed, by consensus or vote or a combination of both. 

"1982 Constitution. There had been five major revisions by the National People's Congress (NPC) to the 1982 Constitution. The 1982 State Constitution provided a legal basis for the broad changes in China's social and economic institutions and significantly revised government structure."


Quote:

The rule of law does not apply to the CCP. The party is sovereign and its apparatchiks are protected by the party's sovereignty.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44505172

"This article argues that the Chinese Communist Party has adopted a unique understanding of law. Unlike the liberal view and the unwritten constitution view, which generally consider law as positive norms that exist independently of politics, the party understands law as a reflection of the party's and the people's will and a form of the party's and the people's self-discipline. In the party's view, liberal rule of law theories are self-contradictory, illusive, and meaningless. This article argues that the party views the people as a political concept and itself as a political leading party, marking a fundamental difference from a competitive party in a parliamentary system. [u]The legitimacy of the party's dominant role and the party-state regime, therefore, depends on whether the party can continue to provide political momentum to lead the people and represent them in the future.


Quote:

No judge in China is free to determine the guilt or innocence of anyone before the courts in China. Guilt and penalties are determined by the CCP, prior to the case being heard, and handed to the judge. Even the defendant's advocate is not allowed to mount a convincing defence against the accused- Cha bu duo, legal style.

And High Courts in 'democracies' are hot-beds of political partisanship...resulting in judgements despised by half the population. 


Quote:

So, you see, you support a system devised by a people you have no comprehension of - a lonely old codger with a teenager's understanding of his pet subject.

refuted above.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 2:41pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 1:35pm: The CCP's constitution has just been changed to allow Xi to effectively become president for life and, despite vehement resistance from the Jiang faction, cries of 'mayo' were heard from the vote counters of the dissenters. Yes, constitutions can be changed, by consensus or vote or a combination of both.  "1982 Constitution. There had been five major revisions by the National People's Congress (NPC) to the 1982 Constitution. The 1982 State Constitution provided a legal basis for the broad changes in China's social and economic institutions and significantly revised government structure." Quote: The rule of law does not apply to the CCP. The party is sovereign and its apparatchiks are protected by the party's sovereignty. https://www.jstor.org/stable/44505172 "This article argues that the Chinese Communist Party has adopted a unique understanding of law. Unlike the liberal view and the unwritten constitution view, which generally consider law as positive norms that exist independently of politics, the party understands law as a reflection of the party's and the people's will and a form of the party's and the people's self-discipline. In the party's view, liberal rule of law theories are self-contradictory, illusive, and meaningless. This article argues that the party views the people as a political concept and itself as a political leading party, marking a fundamental difference from a competitive party in a parliamentary system. [u]The legitimacy of the party's dominant role and the party-state regime, therefore, depends on whether the party can continue to provide political momentum to lead the people and represent them in the future. [quote]No judge in China is free to determine the guilt or innocence of anyone before the courts in China. Guilt and penalties are determined by the CCP, prior to the case being heard, and handed to the judge. Even the defendant's advocate is not allowed to mount a convincing defence against the accused- Cha bu duo, legal style.

And High Courts in 'democracies' are hot-beds of political partisanship...resulting in judgements despised by half the population. 


Quote:

So, you see, you support a system devised by a people you have no comprehension of - a lonely old codger with a teenager's understanding of his pet subject.

refuted above.
[/quote]
The constitution can be changed by the CCP only - there is no referendum required to determine the people's will to change the constitution.

Judgements can be disliked by some people, that is not the point of the independence of the judiciary.

That some politicians try to influence the judiciary is the domain of a free and independent media to investigate or that of a royal commission as interference in the judicial process by politicians is illegal. The Chinese people do not have any such protections against CCP overreach.

So, you see, you support a system devised by a people you have no comprehension of - a lonely old codger with a teenager's understanding of his pet subject.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 2:53pm:

The constitution can be changed by the CCP only

 

...the CCP representing the will of the people:

..."Law as a reflection of the party's and the people's will and a form of the party's and the people's self-discipline. In the party's view, liberal rule of law theories are self-contradictory, illusive, and meaningless".


Quote:

- there is no referendum required to determine the people's will to change the constitution.

No, consensus will do the job; avoiding silly, divisive referendums like the one on marriage equality. 


Quote:

Judgements can be disliked by some people, that is not the point of the independence of the judiciary.

Judges have to obey the law in China, see above. You need to stop claiming your own "freedom values" are the only legitimate base for rule of law.  God knows there are enough examples of the law revealing itself "to be an ass", in the democracies.


Quote:

That some politicians try to influence the judiciary is the domain of a free and independent media to investigate or that of a royal commission as interference in the judicial process by politicians is illegal. The Chinese people do not have any such protections against CCP overreach.

 

If the law is genuinely consensus based - from the bottom up - then overreach from the CCP will be transparent to all.


Quote:

So, you see, you support a system devised by a people you have no comprehension of - a lonely old codger with a teenager's understanding of his pet subject.

No, I look with interest on a system which might avoid the  "liberal rule of law theories (which)  are self-contradictory, illusive, and meaningless".

Not to mention an alternative to the West's self interested 'survival of the fittest' market-based competition for resources which entrenches war and poverty around the globe.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 4:02pm:

Not to mention an alternative to the West's self interested 'survival of the fittest' market-based competition for resources which entrenches war and poverty around the globe.

The fittest for survival in China under the CCP are the neo-imperial families (the red princelings) and CCP apparatchiks.

Together they exploit every echelon of Chinese society via rampant corruption - the reason the Chinese real estate industry is in massive meltdown and the reason for the rioting at the likes of Foxconn factories.

I'm guessing you have not lived under a totalitarian regime or have family who've lived under one or know anyone who has.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 4:12pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 4:02pm: Not to mention an alternative to the West's self interested 'survival of the fittest' market-based competition for resources which entrenches war and poverty around the globe. The fittest for survival in China under the CCP are the neo-imperial families (the red princelings) and CCP apparatchiks.

you assume your own Libertarian individual rights/freedom ideology is the be-all and end-all of ideologies, it is not.

The CCP promotes an ideology of collective well-being, a much higher moral endeavour - and more difficult to achieve - than mere self-interest.

So stop seeing the CCP as your enemy, it represents the collective will of the Chinese people who want to live in peace.   

Meanwhile the democracies are in decline, as inequality soars on the back of individual rights/freedom. 


Quote:

I'm guessing you have not lived under a totalitarian regime or have family who've lived under one or know anyone who has

I know you are an unbalanced, paranoid, individual rights/freedom ideologue, projecting all the failures of your ideology onto the CCP. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 7:57pm:

Meanwhile the democracies are in decline, as inequality soars on the back of individual rights/freedom.

Again, you have never met anyone who has experienced life in China under the CCP.

Inequality and poverty are rife and blatantly evident throughout the country. Corruption runs deep in China and has been for generations.

Democracy is not in decline not least as evidenced by the world's democracys' massive capacity to unite and support Ukraine.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 7:57pm:

Quote: I'm guessing you have not lived under a totalitarian regime or have family who've lived under one or know anyone who has I know you are an unbalanced, paranoid, individual rights/freedom ideologue, projecting all the failures of your ideology onto the CCP.

So, you've not lived under a totalitarian regime or have family who've lived under one or know anyone who has, then.

It's odd that TGD keeps talking about inequality soaring in the west. The only place it is soaring is China. Not that long ago they were starving to death on a relatively equal basis. Now there is more inequality than most western countries. Though they are still dirt poor in comparison. Meanwhile our social security payments are more than double the median Chinese wage, and they are headed for another Mao-style great leap backwards.

He imagines a better China, and the downfall of the west. Or at least, a China that is better than the west. But the only evidence he has for this is his imagination. It is all the future, riding on the promise of CCP propaganda. How can a people who were starved to death in the millions by their own government still be so naive?

Well, it seems that protests (people power) have had some effect on the Xi faction of the CCP - Indications are that covid restrictions in China are to be lifted.

But how to get there without the CCP admitting the whole thing was a malevolent farce? Blame provincial and regional administrations for the mess, of course.

Yes, apparently the central government is claiming its instructions were not correctly implemented or ignored at the local level.

Apparently, the central CCP government never intended for lockdowns to be as harsh as they became and had instructed the regional authorities to relax them; but thems bad boys on the ground done didn't do that.

This is a time-tested coward's gambit firmly established by Mao and persists today with Phat Phuk (AKA, Xi).

Of course, what the central government actually did was instruct an easing of restrictions but demanded that such easing must not cause a rise in covid levels above pre-determined quotas, leaving the local administrations hog-tied and without assistance from the central government - like vaccines that actually work.

It's this quota system (another of Mao's malevolent ideas), that is the root cause of many of China's horrendous systemic problems, along with entrenched and state-sanctioned corruption.

freediver wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2022 at 6:24am:

He imagines a better China, and the downfall of the west. Or at least, a China that is better than the west. But the only evidence he has for this is his imagination. It is all the future, riding on the promise of CCP propaganda. How can a people who were starved to death in the millions by their own government still be so naive?

And it would have to be imagination-driven.

Like the Russians, in their entire history as a society, the Chinese people have only ever known autocracy, authoritarianism, imperial dictatorship and totalitarianism.

They literally have no idea of any national systems of government other than ones that enforce their will by brutal and murderous subjugation.

And just when you thought the CCP could not be more xenophobic and paranoid - The CCP is now promoting the notion that 'foreign forces' have infiltrated China and are personally leading the protests from within China.

It's long been obvious that the CCP is a nest of cowards, terrified of the people they subjugate, but the outlandish notion that 'foreign forces' are regularly entering China - the most surveilled country in the world after North Korea - is crazy even by CCP standards.

The popular CCP critic, Winston Sterzel (serpentza), who lives in the US but previously spent 14 years living in China and is married to a Chinese wife, is being accused personally of covertly travelling to and from China to instigate riots.

This bizarre blame deflection not only exposes extreme CCP paranoia but also is indicative of how dangerous it could become when it runs out of excuses for the current civil unrest in China.

The CCP is not beyond perpetrating a massacre against the Chinese people if its paranoia reaches a sense of existential crisis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pZLMpddzrA

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2022 at 9:21am:

freediver wrote on Dec 2nd, 2022 at 6:24am: He imagines a better China, and the downfall of the west. Or at least, a China that is better than the west. But the only evidence he has for this is his imagination. It is all the future, riding on the promise of CCP propaganda. How can a people who were starved to death in the millions by their own government still be so naive? And it would have to be imagination-driven. Like the Russians, in their entire history as a society, the Chinese people have only ever known autocracy, authoritarianism, imperial dictatorship and totalitarianism. They literally have no idea of any national systems of government other than ones that enforce their will by brutal and murderous subjugation.

This is the highest level of hypocrisy that can come even from perfidious Albion.
Russia elected a head of state and in your Anglo-Khazarian Disneylands you never had the opportunity for such a thing.
Chinese leadership must go through a rigorous selection process based on strict meritocracy.
In your Anglo-Khazarian caste Disneylands, everything is based on "God's chosen people".
:)

athos wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2022 at 11:01am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 2nd, 2022 at 9:21am: freediver wrote on Dec 2nd, 2022 at 6:24am: He imagines a better China, and the downfall of the west. Or at least, a China that is better than the west. But the only evidence he has for this is his imagination. It is all the future, riding on the promise of CCP propaganda. How can a people who were starved to death in the millions by their own government still be so naive? And it would have to be imagination-driven. Like the Russians, in their entire history as a society, the Chinese people have only ever known autocracy, authoritarianism, imperial dictatorship and totalitarianism. They literally have no idea of any national systems of government other than ones that enforce their will by brutal and murderous subjugation. This is the highest level of hypocrisy that can come even from perfidious Albion. Russia elected a head of state and in your Anglo-Khazarian Disneylands you never had the opportunity for such a thing. Chinese leadership must go through a rigorous selection process based on strict meritocracy. In your Anglo-Khazarian caste Disneylands, everything is based on "God's chosen people". :)

How's the cha bu duo explanation going?

Seems this having nothing to say is becoming contagious - Zhao Lijang could not answer the question about whether the CCP would be relaxing the covid restrictions in the wake of widespread protests, and so just stood there, saying nothing - some 'spokesman' !!

How nice are our media towards the Chinese people?  >:(
Agenda driven at all?

https://youtu.be/O-IfKlE9Yn0

Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2022 at 12:01pm:

How nice are our media towards the Chinese people?  >:( Agenda driven at all? []https://youtu.be/O-IfKlE9Yn0[]

Your western privilege is showing.

Trudeau is an elected head of government. When the Canadian people tire of him they will see him off.

The Chinese people are stuck with the CCP and Phat Phuk, even if he orders their murder.

愚蠢的澳大利亚白人甚至不知道“dinkum”是一个中文单词。

Quote:

Chinese leadership must go through a rigorous selection process based on strict meritocracy.

Isn't the CCP internally democratic?

How much merit do you think there is in starving 50 million of your own citizens to death by trying to feed them?

我责怪英国和美国的政治创造了中共

freediver wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 8:17am:

Quote: Chinese leadership must go through a rigorous selection process based on strict meritocracy. Isn't the CCP internally democratic? How much merit do you think there is in starving 50 million of your own citizens to death by trying to feed them?

er..that happened 70 years ago. CCP understanding of macroeconomics  has progressed since then, creating the fastest growth of any nation in history.

Quote:

er..that happened 70 years ago

Who told you that? Your CCP propaganda pamphlet?


Quote:

CCP understanding of macroeconomics  has progressed since then

Are you suggesting that starving 50 million people to death by trying to feed them was meritworthy in 1960?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2022 at 11:06am:

How's the cha bu duo explanation going? Seems this having nothing to say is becoming contagious - Zhao Lijang could not answer the question about whether the CCP would be relaxing the covid restrictions in the wake of widespread protests, and so just stood there, saying nothing - some 'spokesman' !!

Like fraud-diver's mindless equating of the Mao-era famine to current policies, you are failing to keep up; local authorities are now furiously backtracking on zero covid policy after the nation's chief health advisor noted that "omicron variants are not as pathologic as previous variants", ....obviously with the blessing of the CCP ....after hearing the people....

The stock markets boomed.....pragmatism at its best.

freediver wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2022 at 6:24am:

It's odd that TGD keeps talking about inequality soaring in the west.The only place it is soaring is China.

Pure falsehood , not worth debating. (US life expectancy falling, China increasing)


Quote:

Not that long ago they were starving to death on a relatively equal basis. Now there is more inequality than most western countries.

More mindless garbage from a privatization fraudster.

In the last four decades, China has created billionaires, while also eradicating absolute poverty....so of course inequality has increased.

But did you miss it?....Xi has recently reaffirmed policies aimed at achieving common prosperity.

Nevertheless, the US is of course more unequal than China, with inequality soaring and no plans to reverse it.   


Quote:

Though they are still dirt poor in comparison. Meanwhile our social security payments are more than double the median Chinese wage, [s]and they are headed for another Mao-style great leap backwards[/s].

  Gdp per capita in China c. $12,000; in the West c. $50K.


Quote:

He imagines a better China, and the downfall of the west. Or at least, a China that is better than the west. But the only evidence he has for this is his imagination. It is all the future, riding on the promise of CCP propaganda. How can a people who were starved to death in the millions by their own government still be so naive?

(crossed out:  frauddiver's obsession with the past).

I imagine a world without poverty, I see China being in with a chance to show that it is possible, by mid-century. 

Impossible in the West's  'survival of the fittest' competition by "free" individuals in 'invisible hand' markets, impossible because these markets are driven by greed.  Note: in macro-economics, "markets are good servants, but poor masters".

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 1:37pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 2nd, 2022 at 11:06am: How's the cha bu duo explanation going? Seems this having nothing to say is becoming contagious - Zhao Lijang could not answer the question about whether the CCP would be relaxing the covid restrictions in the wake of widespread protests, and so just stood there, saying nothing - some 'spokesman' !! Like fraud-diver's mindless equating of the Mao-era famine to current policies, you are failing to keep up; local authorities are now furiously backtracking on zero covid policy after the nation's chief health advisor noted that "omicron variants are not as pathologic as previous variants", ....obviously with the blessing of the CCP ....after hearing the people.... The stock markets boomed.....pragmatism at its best.

And the central government cowards are blaming local administrations for the mess, claiming that they'd been instructed to dial back the covid restrictions.

What the central government hasn't yet admitted to was that their policy on zero-covid didn't change and neither did their quotas on acceptable numbers of covid cases, leaving the local administrators in a catch-22 - if they relaxed restrictions and case numbers exceeded the quotas, they would be disciplined. All this while the central government refused to allow western vaccines into the country.

Of course, the true covid numbers would almost certainly have exceeded the central government quotas anyway as case numbers were only being reported up to the quota limit. Another cha bu duo moment.

Their excuse about Omicron is spurious also. Omicron has been the dominant strain for over a year. Why did the central government not act sooner? It was only the threatening protests that woke them to the possibility of a CCP existential crisis.

And the central government might have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for scenes from the world cup showing hundreds of thousands of people unmasked.

As for Zhao Lijan - what a sad phuk - instructed by the CCP not to answer questions that referred to protests because, well, the central government tried to deny they were happening at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6KRKrSymb0

freediver wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 8:02am:

Perhaps the Chinese people haven't forgotten being starved to death by the CCP after all. Xi seems to be another Mao in the making.

Frauddiver strikes again; the CCP has evolved since the Mao era,  and since 1980 has eradicated poverty at the fastest rate of any nation in history.


Quote:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-63771109 Protests against strict Covid measures in China have spilled into a second night and spread to the biggest cities. Demonstrators gathered in the capital Beijing and the financial hub Shanghai. Many held up blank pieces of paper to express their discontent and acknowledge the censorship. Some have, however, gone as far as calling for President Xi Jinping to step down. Millions have been affected by nearly three years of mass testing, quarantines and snap lockdowns. It is very unusual for people to publicly vent their anger at Communist Party leaders in China, where any direct government criticism can result in harsh penalties. During Saturday night's protest in the city people were heard openly shouting slogans such as "Xi Jinping, step down" and "Communist party, step down". Such demands are highly unusual in China. But the government appears to have drastically underestimated growing discontent towards the zero-Covid approach, a policy inextricably linked to President Xi who recently pledged there would be no swerving from it.

And now the government is responding...with medical opinions offering the advise that the current Omricon variant is not so lethal as previous variants...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-63805188

China signals ease in Covid policy after mass protests

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 4:12pm:

the CCP has evolved since the Mao era,  and since 1980 has eradicated poverty at the fastest rate of any nation in history.

Poverty has not been eradicated in China. What has been eradicated by the CCP is the freedom to report on poverty.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 4:12pm:

And now the government is responding...with medical opinions offering the advise that the current Omricon variant is not so lethal as previous variants...

Something the world has known for nearly a year.

Why did the CCP not advise the people of this earlier?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 2:37pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3rd, 2022 at 1:37pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 2nd, 2022 at 11:06am: How's the cha bu duo explanation going? Seems this having nothing to say is becoming contagious - Zhao Lijang could not answer the question about whether the CCP would be relaxing the covid restrictions in the wake of widespread protests, and so just stood there, saying nothing - some 'spokesman' !! Like fraud-diver's mindless equating of the Mao-era famine to current policies, you are failing to keep up; local authorities are now furiously backtracking on zero covid policy after the nation's chief health advisor noted that "omicron variants are not as pathologic as previous variants", ....obviously with the blessing of the CCP ....after hearing the people.... The stock markets boomed.....pragmatism at its best. And the central government cowards are blaming local administrations for the mess, claiming that they'd been instructed to dial back the covid restrictions.

Eh...and what a bummer the CCP are too "cowardly" to face up to the protesters..... (if you get my drift...) 


Quote:

What the central government hasn't yet admitted to was that their policy on zero-covid didn't change and neither did their quotas on acceptable numbers of covid cases, leaving the local administrators in a catch-22 - if they relaxed restrictions and case numbers exceeded the quotas, they would be disciplined. All this while the central government refused to allow western vaccines into the country.

Yes, ...and your disappointment that the CCP has reneged on zero covid is palpable....


Quote:

Of course, the true covid numbers would almost certainly have exceeded the central government quotas anyway as case numbers were only being reported up to the quota limit. Another cha bu duo moment.

Of course fake news only exists in China....


Quote:

Their excuse about Omicron is spurious also. Omicron has been the dominant strain for over a year. Why did the central government not act sooner? It was only the threatening protests that woke them to the possibility of a CCP existential crisis.

Well, a genuine desire to save lives in a vast population -many of whom do not have access to 1st world hospital standards - might have had something to do with it.
(But who knows whether the current covid strain is the same as last year, there seem to be lots of different  strains).

Quote:

And the central government might have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for scenes from the world cup showing hundreds of thousands of people unmasked. As for Zhao Lijan - what a sad phuk - instructed by the CCP not to answer questions that referred to protests because, well, the central government tried to deny they were happening at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6KRKrSymb0

Cheer up, old boy....you will just have to keep finding ways to bolster your phoney 'China threat' theory. 

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 4:21pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3rd, 2022 at 4:12pm: the CCP has evolved since the Mao era,  and since 1980 has eradicated poverty at the fastest rate of any nation in history. Poverty has not been eradicated in China. What has been eradicated by the CCP is the freedom to report on poverty.

Your powers of comprehension are crippled by your fake "freedom values" ideology.

Since 1980, China has eradicated absolute poverty (as per UN measurement) AND created the largest middle class in the world (c.400 million), at the fastest rate of any nation in history. 

What a pity the CCP is reneging on covid zero.....the huge $18 trillion economy might resume growing at a fast rate....as stock-market punters are apparently expecting. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 4:37pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 3rd, 2022 at 4:21pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3rd, 2022 at 4:12pm: the CCP has evolved since the Mao era,  and since 1980 has eradicated poverty at the fastest rate of any nation in history. Poverty has not been eradicated in China. What has been eradicated by the CCP is the freedom to report on poverty. Your powers of comprehension are crippled by your fake "freedom values" ideology. Since 1980, China has eradicated absolute poverty (as per UN measurement) AND created the largest middle class in the world, at the fastest rate of any nation in history.

The only figures used about China are those that are sanctioned by the CCP.

The CCP did not eradicate poverty, Xi Jinping declared poverty eradicated by decree.

To manufacture the figures, the CCP uses a malevolent form of cha bu duo that Mao exploited - set quotas for provincial and regional authorities and be harsh in discipline if they report they have exceeded those quotas. Of course, no provincial or regional authority reports exceeding quotas where it has not been sanctioned by the central government. Hu Jintao once referred to this in a public speech. We will see at Jiang's funeral whether Hu is still alive.

Anyone who travels across China is alarmed at the extent of poverty outside Tier-1 cities.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 4:30pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 3rd, 2022 at 2:37pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3rd, 2022 at 1:37pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 2nd, 2022 at 11:06am: How's the cha bu duo explanation going? Seems this having nothing to say is becoming contagious - Zhao Lijang could not answer the question about whether the CCP would be relaxing the covid restrictions in the wake of widespread protests, and so just stood there, saying nothing - some 'spokesman' !! Like fraud-diver's mindless equating of the Mao-era famine to current policies, you are failing to keep up; local authorities are now furiously backtracking on zero covid policy after the nation's chief health advisor noted that "omicron variants are not as pathologic as previous variants", ....obviously with the blessing of the CCP ....after hearing the people.... The stock markets boomed.....pragmatism at its best. And the central government cowards are blaming local administrations for the mess, claiming that they'd been instructed to dial back the covid restrictions. Eh...and what a bummer the CCP are too "cowardly" to face up to the protesters..... (if you get my drift...)  Quote: What the central government hasn't yet admitted to was that their policy on zero-covid didn't change and neither did their quotas on acceptable numbers of covid cases, leaving the local administrators in a catch-22 - if they relaxed restrictions and case numbers exceeded the quotas, they would be disciplined. All this while the central government refused to allow western vaccines into the country. Yes, ...and your disappointment that the CCP has reneged on zero covid is palpable.... [quote]Of course, the true covid numbers would almost certainly have exceeded the central government quotas anyway as case numbers were only being reported up to the quota limit. Another cha bu duo moment.

Of course fake news only exists in China....


Quote:

Their excuse about Omicron is spurious also. Omicron has been the dominant strain for over a year. Why did the central government not act sooner? It was only the threatening protests that woke them to the possibility of a CCP existential crisis.

Well, a genuine desire to save lives in a vast population -many of whom do not have access to 1st world hospital standards - might have had something to do with it.
(But who knows whether the current covid strain is the same as last year, there seem to be lots of different  strains).

Quote:

And the central government might have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for scenes from the world cup showing hundreds of thousands of people unmasked. As for Zhao Lijan - what a sad phuk - instructed by the CCP not to answer questions that referred to protests because, well, the central government tried to deny they were happening at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6KRKrSymb0

Cheer up, old boy....you will just have to keep finding ways to bolster your phoney 'China threat' theory. 
[/quote]
So, over the last 2 years, Chinese people have been herded into concentration camps, separated from their children, forced to take covid tests up to 3 times a week rain, hail, snow or shine, have starved in their homes, been bashed, arrested and disappeared and now, it turns out, for nothing.

General well-being CCP-style.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 4:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3rd, 2022 at 4:37pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 3rd, 2022 at 4:21pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3rd, 2022 at 4:12pm: the CCP has evolved since the Mao era,  and since 1980 has eradicated poverty at the fastest rate of any nation in history. Poverty has not been eradicated in China. What has been eradicated by the CCP is the freedom to report on poverty. Your powers of comprehension are crippled by your fake "freedom values" ideology. Since 1980, China has eradicated absolute poverty (as per UN measurement) AND created the largest middle class in the world, at the fastest rate of any nation in history.  The only figures used about China are those that are sanctioned by the CCP.

Case closed then, I suppose.....


Quote:

The CCP did not eradicate poverty, Xi Jinping declared poverty eradicated by decree.

The $18 trillion economy, actually the biggest in the world in PPP terms, would suggest otherwise, but carry on....you fake "freedom value' ideologue.


Quote:

To manufacture the figures, the CCP uses a malevolent form of cha bu duo that Mao exploited - set quotas for provincial and regional authorities and be harsh in discipline if they report they have exceeded those quotas. Of course, no provincial or regional authority reports exceeding quotas where it has not been sanctioned by the central government.

The largest economy in the world in PPP terms,  enabling  subsidies for low income groups, would suggest at least sufficiency among the poor, certainly better the blacks drinking themselves to death in poorly maintained houses - or no housing - in Oz.


Quote:

Anyone who travels across China is alarmed at the extent of poverty outside Tier-1 cities.

Don't look at Broome beaches, or Tennant Creek streets on the weekend...

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 5:02pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 3rd, 2022 at 4:49pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3rd, 2022 at 4:37pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 3rd, 2022 at 4:21pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3rd, 2022 at 4:12pm: the CCP has evolved since the Mao era,  and since 1980 has eradicated poverty at the fastest rate of any nation in history. Poverty has not been eradicated in China. What has been eradicated by the CCP is the freedom to report on poverty. Your powers of comprehension are crippled by your fake "freedom values" ideology. Since 1980, China has eradicated absolute poverty (as per UN measurement) AND created the largest middle class in the world, at the fastest rate of any nation in history.  The only figures used about China are those that are sanctioned by the CCP. Case closed then, I suppose..... Quote: The CCP did not eradicate poverty, Xi Jinping declared poverty eradicated by decree. The $18 trillion economy, actually the biggest in the world in PPP terms, would suggest otherwise, but carry on....you fake "freedom value' ideologue. [quote]To manufacture the figures, the CCP uses a malevolent form of cha bu duo that Mao exploited - set quotas for provincial and regional authorities and be harsh in discipline if they report they have exceeded those quotas. Of course, no provincial or regional authority reports exceeding quotas where it has not been sanctioned by the central government.

The largest economy in the world in PPP terms,  enabling  subsidies for low income groups, would suggest at least sufficiency among the poor, certainly better the blacks drinking themselves to death in poorly maintained houses - or no housing - in Oz.


Quote:

Anyone who travels across China is alarmed at the extent of poverty outside Tier-1 cities.

Don't look at Broome beaches, or Tennant Creek streets on the weekend...[/quote]With a 1.4 billion population, figures in isolation look impressive - and made more impressive with a bit of cha bu duo-style reporting limits.

Who gets to actually spend money in China is another question. Certainly, CCP officials and those with enough guanxi with CCP officials definitely get to flaunt their wealth. Their numbers could be as high as 200 to 400 million.

That would still leave a billion people, most of whom have barely enough to eat, let alone own cars and mod cons.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 2:09pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 2nd, 2022 at 6:24am: It's odd that TGD keeps talking about inequality soaring in the west.The only place it is soaring is China. Pure falsehood , not worth debating. (US life expectancy falling, China increasing)

And yet you debate it. If inequality is not soaring in China, can you explain how they went from starving to death in the millions on a relatively equal basis, to having more inequality than Australia and most of the other western nations you complain about?

On the Gini coefficient, the following are just some of the western nations that outrank China. Note that this only measures relative inequality within the country. These nations are also far wealthier than China in an absolute sense. There are also plenty of tinpot dictatorships that score better than China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

Iceland, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Netherlands, Sweden, Austraia, EU, Ireland, Germany, France, Portugal, Greece, Switzerland, Canada, Luxembourg, Australia, Spain, Italy, NZ.

In fact, if you pick any country at random, it is likely these days to beat China on inequality.


Quote:

More mindless garbage from a privatization fraudster.

Are you denying that the CCP starved millions of Chinese people to death by trying to feed them all equally?


Quote:

Gdp per capita in China c. $12,000; in the West c. $50K.

Yes. China is terrible on pretty much every score. Are you trying to agree with what I said? Here it is again:

Though they are still dirt poor in comparison. Meanwhile our social security payments are more than double the median Chinese wage


Quote:

crossed out:  frauddiver's obsession with the past

And present. China is still a shithole compared to the western nations you like to compare it to. The only place where it is not is in your imagination, and your CCP propaganda pamphlettes, promising yet another Mao-style great leap backwards.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 5:17pm:

With a 1.4 billion population, figures in isolation look impressive - and made more impressive with a bit of cha bu duo-style reporting limits.

No, the fact is according to UN measurements, China is now a middle income country,  with the poor supported by government subsidies. That's why most of the poverty eradication in the world in the last 3 decades has happened in China.


Quote:

Who gets to actually spend money in China is another question. Certainly, CCP officials and those with enough guanxi with CCP officials definitely get to flaunt their wealth. Their numbers could be as high as 200 to 400 million.

 

Addressed and refuted above, and indeed China now has the largest middle class in the world with c. 400 million people cf c.96 million CCP members (including 'officials')

meanwhile blacks in Oz living on the dole are drinking themselves to death and living in 3rd world squalor, with an average life expectancy gap of a decade cf non-blacks.   


Quote:

That would still leave a billion people, most of whom have barely enough to eat, let alone own cars and mod cons.

Addressed and refuted above. China's "socialism with Chinese characteristics" ensures provision of necessities, without the poorest actually needing an above poverty income, because socialism redistributes the nation's production via food, transport and housing subsidies.

Whereas the below poverty dole in Oz, and no  subsidization of these costs in capitalist Oz, create the misery we see in the 3rd world black squalor.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 10:20am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 3rd, 2022 at 5:17pm: With a 1.4 billion population, figures in isolation look impressive - and made more impressive with a bit of cha bu duo-style reporting limits. No, the fact is according to UN measurements, China is now a middle income country,  with the poor supported by government subsidies. That's why most of the poverty eradication in the world in the last 3 decades has happened in China.

No. Data about China does not come from independent sources. Until that changes, nothing can be determined with confidence.

Those who have travelled through China will tell you poverty is rampant outside of Tier-1 cities.

freediver wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 10:02am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3rd, 2022 at 2:09pm: freediver wrote on Dec 2nd, 2022 at 6:24am: It's odd that TGD keeps talking about inequality soaring in the west.The only place it is soaring is China. Pure falsehood , not worth debating. (US life expectancy falling, China increasing) And yet you debate it. If inequality is not soaring in China, can you explain how they went from starving to death in the millions on a relatively equal basis, to having more inequality than Australia and most of the other western nations you complain about?

Already done, frauddiver. Elimination of absolute poverty AND the creation of billionaires in China, results in an increase in inequality.  But the trend now is toward 'common prosperity' by government decree.

Whereas stagnation of median wages and increasing claim of the wealthy in the US on the nation's output results in even higher inequality, with the trend moving in the wrong direction. 


Quote:

On the Gini coefficient, the following are just some of the western nations that outrank China. Note that this only measures relative inequality within the country. These nations are also far wealthier than China in an absolute sense. There are also plenty of tinpot dictatorships that score better than China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality Iceland, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Netherlands, Sweden, Austraia, EU, Ireland, Germany, France, Portugal, Greece, Switzerland, Canada, Luxembourg, Australia, Spain, Italy, NZ. In fact, if you pick any country at random, it is likely these days to beat China on inequality.

Addressed and refuted above...and where is the US....?

You are failing to recognize those countries have been 1st world countries for decades, without the majority ever  living in absolute poverty.   



Quote:

Are you denying that the CCP starved millions of Chinese people to death by trying to feed them all equally?

No, but your mindless parroting is irrelevant to CCP policies adopted since the 1980's.



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Yes. China is terrible on pretty much every score. Are you trying to agree with what I said? Here it is again: Though they are still dirt poor in comparison. Meanwhile our social security payments are more than double the median Chinese wage

 


Addressed and refuted above. In Mao's era, Chinese gdp per capita was at absolute poverty levels. 


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crossed out:  frauddiver's obsession with the past

That's correct , it's all you've  got to  defend your own failing economic system. with soaring inequality.



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And present. China is still a shithole compared to the western nations you like to compare it to. The only place where it is not is in your imagination, and your CCP propaganda pamphlettes, promising yet another Mao-style great leap backwards.

Refuted above; and don't go visit Broome beaches or the black camps outside the Alice....where the economic conditions actually are responsible for a life expectancy reduction of a decade.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 10:50am:

freediver wrote on Dec 4th, 2022 at 10:02am: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3rd, 2022 at 2:09pm: freediver wrote on Dec 2nd, 2022 at 6:24am: It's odd that TGD keeps talking about inequality soaring in the west.The only place it is soaring is China. Pure falsehood , not worth debating. (US life expectancy falling, China increasing) And yet you debate it. If inequality is not soaring in China, can you explain how they went from starving to death in the millions on a relatively equal basis, to having more inequality than Australia and most of the other western nations you complain about? Already done, frauddiver. Elimination of absolute poverty AND the creation of billionaires in China, results in an increase in inequality.  But the trend now is toward 'common prosperity' by government decree.

This is just you substituting your imagination and CCP propaganda for reality. The reality is that China has higher inequality and a vastly lower median wage. The real trend is increasing inequality - from communism to more inequality than most nations, including those far wealthier.

https://www.routledge.com/How-China-Escaped-Shock-Therapy-The-Market-Reform-Debate/Weber/p/book/9781032008493

How China Escaped Shock Therapy
The Market Reform Debate


China has become deeply integrated into the world economy. Yet, gradual marketization has facilitated the country’s rise without leading to its wholesale assimilation to global neoliberalism. This book uncovers the fierce contest about economic reforms that shaped China’s path. In the first post-Mao decade, China’s reformers were sharply divided. They agreed that China had to reform its economic system and move toward more marketization—but struggled over how to go about it. Should China destroy the core of the socialist system through shock therapy, or should it use the institutions of the planned economy as market creators? With hindsight, the historical record proves the high stakes behind the question: China embarked on an economic expansion commonly described as unprecedented in scope and pace, whereas Russia’s economy collapsed under shock therapy. Based on extensive research, including interviews with key Chinese and international participants and World Bank officials as well as insights gleaned from unpublished documents, the book charts the debate that ultimately enabled China to follow a path to gradual reindustrialization. Beyond shedding light on the crossroads of the 1980s, it reveals the intellectual foundations of state-market relations in reform-era China through a longue durée lens. Overall, the book delivers an original perspective on China’s economic model and its continuing contestations from within and from without.

review:
JAMES K. GALBRAITH, The University of Texas at Austin, former Chief Technical adviser to China's State Planning Commission for macroeconomic reform

Isabella Weber's book gives an excellent historical overview of China's economic statecraft bringing the reader to the crucial period of market reforms and to the decision to avoid the full implementation of the neoliberal agenda, thus setting the stage for the fastest and longest growth in world history.

What do you think that is actually saying?

That China is in the middle of the fastest transition to a liberal marketplace in world history, but they are going to magically cease all change right now, because the CCP propogandists are declaring the same thing they have always declared (even when millions of Chinese were starving to death) - that the CCP has already got it right?

freediver wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 11:15am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 4th, 2022 at 10:50am: freediver wrote on Dec 4th, 2022 at 10:02am: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3rd, 2022 at 2:09pm: freediver wrote on Dec 2nd, 2022 at 6:24am: It's odd that TGD keeps talking about inequality soaring in the west.The only place it is soaring is China. Pure falsehood , not worth debating. (US life expectancy falling, China increasing) And yet you debate it. If inequality is not soaring in China, can you explain how they went from starving to death in the millions on a relatively equal basis, to having more inequality than Australia and most of the other western nations you complain about? Already done, frauddiver. Elimination of absolute poverty AND the creation of billionaires in China, results in an increase in inequality.  But the trend now is toward 'common prosperity' by government decree. This is just you substituting your imagination and CCP propaganda for reality.

No; simple maths, beyond you, obviously.

freediver wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 11:15am:

This is just you substituting your imagination and CCP propaganda for reality.

No; simple maths, beyond you, obviously.

Elimination of absolute poverty AND the creation of billionaires in China, results in an increase in inequality.  But the trend now is toward 'common prosperity' by government decree.

freediver wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 11:43am:

What do you think that is actually saying? That China is in the middle of the fastest transition to a liberal marketplace in world history, but they are going to magically cease all change right now, because the CCP propogandists are declaring the same thing they have always declared (even when millions of Chinese were starving to death) - that the CCP has already got it right?

No; that:

Isabella Weber's book gives an excellent historical overview of China's economic statecraft bringing the reader to the crucial period of market reforms and to the decision to avoid the full implementation of the neoliberal agenda, thus setting the stage for the fastest and longest growth in world history.

The CCP is a brutal, unaccountable, totalitarian regime.

Nothing about China under the CCP is independently verifiable as we have now all learned with the covid pandemic.

Given that the CCP refuses to allow independent media or independent bodies to conduct their own investigations, everything published by the CCP about China can be considered a lie.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 11:53am:

freediver wrote on Dec 4th, 2022 at 11:15am: This is just you substituting your imagination and CCP propaganda for reality. No; simple maths, beyond you, obviously. Elimination of absolute poverty AND the creation of billionaires in China, results in an increase in inequality.  But the trend now is toward 'common prosperity' by government decree.

What trend? You say it is simple maths, but all I see is your imagination, and CCP propaganda.


thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 11:58am:

freediver wrote on Dec 4th, 2022 at 11:43am: What do you think that is actually saying? That China is in the middle of the fastest transition to a liberal marketplace in world history, but they are going to magically cease all change right now, because the CCP propogandists are declaring the same thing they have always declared (even when millions of Chinese were starving to death) - that the CCP has already got it right? No; that: Isabella Weber's book gives an excellent historical overview of China's economic statecraft bringing the reader to the crucial period of market reforms and to the decision to avoid the full implementation of the neoliberal agenda, thus setting the stage for the fastest and longest growth in world history.

Even our own governments regularly decide to avoid the full implementation of the neoliberal agenda. But only someone trained to be naive actually believes the decision to mark the end of change. It takes even more absurd naivete to to hold that belief in the face of the rapid transition that China is going through.

Why do you have such trouble thinking for yourself?

汉族基因将是这个星球上数量最多、占主导地位的基因库。

Jasin wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 2:35pm:

汉族基因将是这个星球上数量最多、占主导地位的基因库。

Awwright, that's the third time, now.

Stroll around the grounds until you feel at home.

freediver wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 12:12pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 4th, 2022 at 11:53am: freediver wrote on Dec 4th, 2022 at 11:15am: This is just you substituting your imagination and CCP propaganda for reality. No; simple maths, beyond you, obviously. Elimination of absolute poverty AND the creation of billionaires in China, results in an increase in inequality.  But the trend now is toward 'common prosperity' by government decree. What trend? You say it is simple maths, but all I see is your imagination, and CCP propaganda.

The trend to "common prosperity" and decreasing inequality, as more and more move from poor to middle class.

While the US poor remain poor over decades, with the middle class contracting, and inequality soaring.


Quote:

What do you think that is actually saying? That China is in the middle of the fastest transition to a liberal marketplace in world history, but they are going to magically cease all change right now, because the CCP propogandists are declaring the same thing they have always declared (even when millions of Chinese were starving to death) - that the CCP has already got it right?

No; that:

Isabella Weber's book gives an excellent historical overview of China's economic statecraft bringing the reader to the crucial period of market reforms and to the decision to avoid the full implementation of the neoliberal agenda, thus setting the stage for the fastest and longest growth in world history.


Quote:

Even our own governments regularly decide to avoid the full implementation of the neoliberal agenda.

Yes well Andrews did promote return of the SEC to public hands - and won the Vic. election; but in the main government in Oz is beholden to neoliberalism, while most essential production remains in the hands of SOEs in China (though the neoliberal real estate market got out of control recently, which Xi has been forced to fix up, noting that "houses are for living in, not investment vehicles".   


Quote:

But only someone trained to be naive actually believes the decision to mark the end of change. It takes even more absurd naivete to to hold that belief in the face of the rapid transition that China is going through".

James Galbraith is a professor of economics who actually worked in China, we can take his word over your simplistic, delusional "freedom values" ideology. [Just to remind you: "individuals rights" are man-made, not "god given" or "natural law"]. 


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Why do you have such trouble thinking for yourself?

Laughable, coming from you.

The view from the other side (Global Times):

The deaths of millions, or just statistics?

"And so it continued. The virus kept slaughtering Americans, and their media kept distracting them with bait, especially about China: the virus was created in a Chinese lab, China deliberately spread the virus to the world (or that China was incompetent or corrupt in letting it slip out, depending on which Western propagandist you asked), China is lying about its COVID figures, China is hiding its true death toll, Chinese vaccines don't work (but China is also engaging in "vaccine diplomacy"), China is hoarding masks and other equipment (but is also engaging in "mask diplomacy") … The propaganda was as self-contradictory as it was relentless."

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 5:15pm:

The view from the other side (Global Times): The deaths of millions, or just statistics? "And so it continued. The virus kept slaughtering Americans, and their media kept distracting them with bait, especially about China: the virus was created in a Chinese lab, China deliberately spread the virus to the world (or that China was incompetent or corrupt in letting it slip out, depending on which Western propagandist you asked), China is lying about its COVID figures, China is hiding its true death toll, Chinese vaccines don't work (but China is also engaging in "vaccine diplomacy"), China is hoarding masks and other equipment (but is also engaging in "mask diplomacy") … The propaganda was as self-contradictory as it was relentless."

Reduced to the CCP's Global Times now, eh.

Read up on the Sverdlovsk anthrax leak. Despite the Soviets allowing US inspectors in, they still managed to cover up the cause of the leak. It wasn't until the Soviet Union collapsed that the truth came out.

The same will be true of the pandemic's origin - when the CCP collapses all will be known - even the poverty eradication fiasco.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 5:11pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 4th, 2022 at 12:12pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 4th, 2022 at 11:53am: freediver wrote on Dec 4th, 2022 at 11:15am: This is just you substituting your imagination and CCP propaganda for reality. No; simple maths, beyond you, obviously. Elimination of absolute poverty AND the creation of billionaires in China, results in an increase in inequality.  But the trend now is toward 'common prosperity' by government decree. What trend? You say it is simple maths, but all I see is your imagination, and CCP propaganda. The trend to "common prosperity" and decreasing inequality, as more and more move from poor to middle class.

I see I am having trouble getting through to you.

Do you have any evidence for this new trend, or is it all in your imagination?

It's a simple word FreeDiver : Egalitarianism

They may have caught it from us *cough *cough

And what a great time to point out the absolute disgusting hypocrisy of the number one enemy around the world.
They should all be hung.


https://youtu.be/O-IfKlE9Yn0

Pure scum.

Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 5^th, 2022 at 6:23pm:

And what a great time to point out the absolute disgusting hypocrisy of the number one enemy around the world. They should all be hung. []https://youtu.be/O-IfKlE9Yn0[] Pure scum.

Ooo, I know.

All those people Trudeau sent to covid concentration camps and those children who were separated from their families (who knows what happened to them while their parents weren't there to protect them).

And all those people who were welded into their homes.

And all those people who starved to death because they couldn't get food.

And those who were burned to death because they were welded into their apartments.

And all those, who broke their lockdown, that he had disappeared.

Oh, wait... That was the CCP.

Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 5^th, 2022 at 6:23pm:

And what a great time to point out the absolute disgusting hypocrisy of the number one enemy around the world. They should all be hung. https://youtu.be/O-IfKlE9Yn0 Pure scum.

The corrupt Media using the Uprisings for political reasons.
The Chinese Government is trying very hard to not allow the Virus to rip away and it has taken as much responsibility to rectify the problem of the Pandemic as much as it can.
While 'outsiders' are Politically trying to undermine it's efforts for nothing more than having a go at the CCP.

Jasin wrote on Dec 5^th, 2022 at 6:46pm:

The corrupt Media using the Uprisings for political reasons. The Chinese Government is trying very hard to not allow the Virus to rip away and it has taken as much responsibility to rectify the problem of the Pandemic as much as it can. While 'outsiders' are Politically trying to undermine it's efforts for nothing more than having a go at the CCP.

What's the bet no CCP official starved to death or was welded into their home.

Or had their kids separated from them in a covid concentration camp.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 5^th, 2022 at 7:11pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 6:46pm: The corrupt Media using the Uprisings for political reasons. The Chinese Government is trying very hard to not allow the Virus to rip away and it has taken as much responsibility to rectify the problem of the Pandemic as much as it can. While 'outsiders' are Politically trying to undermine it's efforts for nothing more than having a go at the CCP. What's the bet no CCP official starved to death or was welded into their home. Or had their kids separated from them in a covid concentration camp.

Well then - that's Capitalism for you, eh? ;)

Jasin wrote on Dec 5^th, 2022 at 7:34pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 7:11pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 6:46pm: The corrupt Media using the Uprisings for political reasons. The Chinese Government is trying very hard to not allow the Virus to rip away and it has taken as much responsibility to rectify the problem of the Pandemic as much as it can. While 'outsiders' are Politically trying to undermine it's efforts for nothing more than having a go at the CCP. What's the bet no CCP official starved to death or was welded into their home. Or had their kids separated from them in a covid concentration camp. Well then - that's Capitalism for you, eh? ;)

That's totalitarianism for you.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 5^th, 2022 at 7:37pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 7:34pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 7:11pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 6:46pm: The corrupt Media using the Uprisings for political reasons. The Chinese Government is trying very hard to not allow the Virus to rip away and it has taken as much responsibility to rectify the problem of the Pandemic as much as it can. While 'outsiders' are Politically trying to undermine it's efforts for nothing more than having a go at the CCP. What's the bet no CCP official starved to death or was welded into their home. Or had their kids separated from them in a covid concentration camp. Well then - that's Capitalism for you, eh? ;) That's totalitarianism for you.

Like the Democrats and the Media, eh?  ;)

Jasin wrote on Dec 5^th, 2022 at 7:38pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 7:37pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 7:34pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 7:11pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 6:46pm: The corrupt Media using the Uprisings for political reasons. The Chinese Government is trying very hard to not allow the Virus to rip away and it has taken as much responsibility to rectify the problem of the Pandemic as much as it can. While 'outsiders' are Politically trying to undermine it's efforts for nothing more than having a go at the CCP. What's the bet no CCP official starved to death or was welded into their home. Or had their kids separated from them in a covid concentration camp. Well then - that's Capitalism for you, eh? ;) That's totalitarianism for you. Like the Democrats and the Media, eh?  ;)

Have you had many journalists come to your door this week at 3:00 Am to take you to a black prison?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 5^th, 2022 at 7:59pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 7:38pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 7:37pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 7:34pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 7:11pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 6:46pm: The corrupt Media using the Uprisings for political reasons. The Chinese Government is trying very hard to not allow the Virus to rip away and it has taken as much responsibility to rectify the problem of the Pandemic as much as it can. While 'outsiders' are Politically trying to undermine it's efforts for nothing more than having a go at the CCP. What's the bet no CCP official starved to death or was welded into their home. Or had their kids separated from them in a covid concentration camp. Well then - that's Capitalism for you, eh? ;) That's totalitarianism for you. Like the Democrats and the Media, eh?  ;) Have you had many journalists come to your door this week at 3:00 Am to take you to a black prison?

No.
You're starting to sound like John Smith and Peccary with homo-erotic thoughts.
You're starting to scare me Mr Eccy.  :o

Jasin wrote on Dec 5^th, 2022 at 8:02pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 7:59pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 7:38pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 7:37pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 7:34pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 7:11pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 6:46pm: The corrupt Media using the Uprisings for political reasons. The Chinese Government is trying very hard to not allow the Virus to rip away and it has taken as much responsibility to rectify the problem of the Pandemic as much as it can. While 'outsiders' are Politically trying to undermine it's efforts for nothing more than having a go at the CCP. What's the bet no CCP official starved to death or was welded into their home. Or had their kids separated from them in a covid concentration camp. Well then - that's Capitalism for you, eh? ;) That's totalitarianism for you. Like the Democrats and the Media, eh?  ;) Have you had many journalists come to your door this week at 3:00 Am to take you to a black prison? No. You're starting to sound like John Smith and Peccary with homo-erotic thoughts. You're starting to scare me Mr Eccy.  :o

I think you've got a bit of projection going on there - unless you find something erotic about black prisons.

Are you off your pills again?