Native title granted to Widjabul Wia-bal people in the Northern Rivers after decade-long claim process 8-)

Boris wrote on Dec 19^th, 2022 at 3:27pm:

Its all a ever see Boris wrote on Dec 19th, 2022 at 12:22pm: Another day - any idea how many times I've seen this? https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/nt-teenager-who-raped-sevenyearold-girl-while-on-parole-for-arson-to-be-released-less-than-two-months-after-being-convicted/news-story/cc9ede7a0090054249211ce3d29512c0?fbclid=IwAR1e6jfOALrA_UkchJ9o0tXqyz0shVvkwX6NuejxnlFlgWDEtdPHpOsIeCc NT teenager who raped seven-year-old girl while on parole for arson to be released less than two months after being convicted Citing a previous ruling, the sentencing judge said “allowing the degree of cumulation which would be required in the application of the ordinary principles” would have “a crushing effect” on the offender, given his youth. A sixteen-year-old male who raped a seven-year-old girl in a Northern Territory town while on parole for arson will be released from detention less than two months after being convicted. The teenager was sentenced in the Northern Territory Supreme Court on November 30 - a week before his eighteenth birthday - after pleading guilty to raping the girl in Tennant Creek on May 12 last year. The court heard the girl had been watching television at the teenager’s house when he groped her before forcing her into a bedroom where she was raped. The victim later told her mother the teenager “had sex with her in the front and the back”. She had to be flown by the Royal Flying Doctor Service to Alice Springs for treatment. The court heard the girl had been traumatised by the incident and was now afraid to go outside. She struggles to sleep, does not want to go to school and wants to move away from Tennant Creek. The victim’s mother told the court her once “bubbly and outgoing” daughter is now “scared and anxious”. The girl’s father told the court the rape was “the worst thing imaginable to happen to a father’s daughter” and that the incident had “gutted him to the core”. The offender was arrested four days after the incident and has been in custody since at the Don Dale Youth Detention Centre. Justice Sonia Brownhill sentenced the teenager to three years in prison, suspended after one year and seven months. The maximum sentence for the offence is 25 years.

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Boring, one Racist track mind, Matty.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

.... and so it begins............. and never ends now......

Who are all those wharte people sitting in that audience?

"The decision means Widjabul Wia-bal traditional owners now have the rights to carry out a number of cultural activities on non-freehold land, such as national parks and crown land."

Doesn't mean they own it.... but watch this space for all the trouble......

Nobody ever has any trouble or problem with their carrying out cultural activities - as long as they don't interfere and prevent others from the same rights.

Nah, then - we need a definition of 'cultural activities'....... sounds too open-ended to me... claim something is cultural and you get to exclude everyone else... the race will now be on to extend and extend this until nobody goes there ... and judging by past performances at Mt Warning... that will include terrorism.

Things like this are never the end - they are the beginning.... and I TOLD YOU SO!!

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 19^th, 2022 at 3:56pm:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png Boring, one Racist track mind, Matty.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

To you it's boring - you just do not mind about girls being raped.

The girl doesn't think it's boring.

It's terrible for the girl, her family and the Hospital staff - but you just do not care. You lack empathy. I have had to deal with this as a Hospital employee and First Responder - and let me tell you it is terrible - I have nightmares. I have lost count of the raped and murdered women and children I have seen - you have seen none.

So you go to the Alice Springs Hospital and tell everyone they are racist and boring if they don't like what they see and think its bad. You are such a fool. You don't care about this girl or all the others.

She had to be flown by the Royal Flying Doctor Service to Alice Springs for treatment.

The court heard the girl had been traumatised by the incident and was now afraid to go outside.

She struggles to sleep, does not want to go to school and wants to move away from Tennant Creek.

The victim’s mother told the court her once “bubbly and outgoing” daughter is now “scared and anxious”.

Boring? Racist?

https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/health/aboriginal-sexual-abuse#sexual-abuse-in-aboriginal-communities
The consequences of child sexual abuse are horrifying:

Children have sexual diseases. Children under the age of 10 and as young as 4 are diagnosed with sexually transmitted diseases like gonorrhoea, chlamydia, syphilis and trichomoniasis [11].

Early exposure to pornography. Children as young as three have been exposed to pornographic material in their homes [12].

Teenage rape. Teenagers rape children, and older children rape very young children.
Higher vulnerability to illness later in life. The younger the child and the more frequent the abuse, the more likely they are to manifest physical symptoms later in life that hint at their trauma. It could be pelvic pain, stomach aches, chronic back pain or more-complex conditions such as autoimmune disease, asthma, psoriasis and type 2 diabetes. Experts call this 'somatisation': physical manifestations of psychological trauma. [13]

Within a six-month period in early 2007 the Northern Territory Health Department reported more than 800 cases of sexually transmitted diseases in Indigenous populations, while just 53 cases were noted in non-Indigenous groups [11].



Source: Aboriginal sexual abuse - Creative Spirits, retrieved from https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/health/aboriginal-sexual-abuse#sexual-abuse-in-aboriginal-communities

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I am presently listening on the radio to "Christmas Tree" sung in Aboriginal by the Classics Choir.  Sounds wonderful.  Listen to it, Matty.   Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 19^th, 2022 at 2:55pm:

Native title granted to Widjabul Wia-bal people in the Northern Rivers after decade-long claim process 8-)

The 1,559 square kilometre claim was first filed in June 2013.

It spans half a dozen local government areas comprising[highlight] Lismore, Ballina, Byron, Kyogle, Tweed and the Richmond Valley.
[/highlight]

I hope they have scuba gear? ;D

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 20^th, 2022 at 12:18am:

.... and so it begins............. and never ends now...... Who are all those wharte people sitting in that audience? "The decision means Widjabul Wia-bal traditional owners now have the rights to carry out a number of cultural activities on non-freehold land, such as national parks and crown land." Doesn't mean they own it.... but watch this space for all the trouble...... Nobody ever has any trouble or problem with their carrying out cultural activities - as long as they don't interfere and prevent others from the same rights. Nah, then - we need a definition of 'cultural activities'....... sounds too open-ended to me... claim something is cultural and you get to exclude everyone else... the race will now be on to extend and extend this until nobody goes there ... and judging by past performances at Mt Warning... that will include terrorism. Things like this are never the end - they are the beginning.... and I TOLD YOU SO!!

The whitest bloke with the long hair & the gingery appearance is a Mickey Ryan & he's supposed to be a traditional owner.  ;D

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 20^th, 2022 at 10:39am:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png I am presently listening on the radio to "Christmas Tree" sung in Aboriginal by the Classics Choir.  Sounds wonderful.  Listen to it, Matty.   Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

You'd like it ... it's truly cringeworthy like yourself.

Anyway - this must be made perfectly clear - Native Title to carry out customs etc is not the same as total ownership, and the responsibility is on all parties using that land to share in good faith.

The trouble will be when some try to shut out areas of this on 'cultural' grounds.... such as 'traditions says nobody but us can go there' ...and some will even continue their terrorist campaign against 'other' visitors, as with Mt Warning, Alice Springs and so forth.  I foresee trouble over this Native Title ..... and not from anyone not Indigenous...

To me there needs to be a stipulation that failure or refusal to co-operate in good faith will result in canceling of the deal.  If some cannot abide by the rules then those people must face sanctions, and if that does not work, the rules need to be changed.  Simple.

Now watch this space for the treachery of politicians living in Sydney with their by now traditional 'definition creep'.......

this will bring the bigots out in force again :D :D

John Smith wrote on Dec 20^th, 2022 at 12:21pm:

this will bring the bigots out in force again :D :D

Yes - they'll be crying and screeching about how the natives own it and everyone else using it is an invader and somehow usurping their rights etc... disturbing the spirits...

"The decision means Widjabul Wia-bal traditional owners now have the rights to carry out a number of cultural activities on non-freehold land, such as national parks and crown land.

Nothing there about total ownership.... just some cultural activities same as everyone else... bushwalkers etc have a cultural activity called bushwalking.... climbers have a cultural activity called climbing... nothing about closures or anything else..... but the bigots will soon be looking for a chance to impose those...

Share and share alike or get out of the way ......

My money was on you or FD being the first ... you beat him to it

Nah - you beat everyone...

So now a call for a proper reading of the 'title' and a call for sharing equally and fairly AS REQUIRED is 'bigotry'?

Sorry, son - but that won't change the reality - they do not own the land outright regardless of how they carry on.... they can use it and share it .. but then - nobody was stopping them doing their cultural practices at any time... like everyone else - they were already free to do that, but now - they'll try to distort the meaning of 'right to cultural practices' into total ownership, which it is not.

Only a blind man or a total idiot could not see that.  Nothing but trouble - bad moon on the rise again...

"now have the rights to carry out a number of cultural activities on non-freehold land, such as national parks and crown land."

That's all it says - nothing about absolute ownership....... somebody needs to explain that slowly to them and to those like you who simply fail to understand.

I know, Ike - maybe they could be taught that in schools..... part of the culture, you know..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fs8r8Zzvsc

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 20^th, 2022 at 1:11pm:

Nah - you beat everyone... So now a call for a proper reading of the 'title' and a call for sharing equally and fairly AS REQUIRED is 'bigotry'? Sorry, son - but that won't change the reality - they do not own the land outright regardless of how they carry on.... they can use it and share it .. but then - nobody was stopping them doing their cultural practices at any time... like everyone else - they were already free to do that, but now - they'll try to distort the meaning of 'right to cultural practices' into total ownership, which it is not. Only a blind man or a total idiot could not see that.  Nothing but trouble - bad moon on the rise again...

native title isn't about sharing equally you moron

John Smith wrote on Dec 20^th, 2022 at 12:21pm:

this will bring the bigots out in force again :D :D

::) is that all you've got?

John Smith wrote on Dec 20^th, 2022 at 2:00pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 1:11pm: Nah - you beat everyone... So now a call for a proper reading of the 'title' and a call for sharing equally and fairly AS REQUIRED is 'bigotry'? Sorry, son - but that won't change the reality - they do not own the land outright regardless of how they carry on.... they can use it and share it .. but then - nobody was stopping them doing their cultural practices at any time... like everyone else - they were already free to do that, but now - they'll try to distort the meaning of 'right to cultural practices' into total ownership, which it is not. Only a blind man or a total idiot could not see that.  Nothing but trouble - bad moon on the rise again... native title isn't about sharing equally you moron

I phukkin know that...... & as an Australian you're OK with that why?

"now have the rights to carry out a number of cultural activities on non-freehold land, such as national parks and crown land."

What part of that offers absolute ownership?  It even says on NON-freehold land - meaning there is NO freehold title over that land.

See what I mean about Definition Creep??  A foot in the door and away they go in Macquarie Street and on the ground if they are black - the government will 're-consider' when receiving enough 'representations' from 'stakeholders' - meaning ONLY black ones to the absolute exclusion of everyone else - and will somehow find a 'need' to extend ownership way beyond what Native Title actually confers.

You see - bushwalkers, climbers and national park OWNERS - the People - are generally a quiet lot who just think everything is rosy while the Silverback Standover Voices are building and building whine after whine about how badly done by they are by having to share with others... like nasty little kids in a pre-school wanting all the toys.  Governments these days have neither the balls nor the nous to just say NO as they should have been doing all along.

Haven't you had your eyes and ears open over the past forty years, Smith?

Even dividie sees entrenched poverty and disadvantage - but he can't extend his thinking properly to see the real reasons wt - hint - 'preference' of all kinds... Sad Kanga carries on as if the Keffir are the only ones disadvantaged - and somehow by disadvantaging others they will be risen from the death of their own endless failures...

Well - guess what - they're not Robinson Crusoe's Black Man Friday all on their ownsome out there in No-Noland/NeverHaveLand.

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 20^th, 2022 at 10:39am:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png I am presently listening on the radio to "Christmas Tree" sung in Aboriginal by the Classics Choir.  Sounds wonderful.  Listen to it, Matty.   Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

:D :D

That's like saying 'sung in European', you half-witted Tut-tutsie Bbwian.

Gnads wrote on Dec 20^th, 2022 at 2:10pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 12:21pm: this will bring the bigots out in force again :D :D ::) is that all you've got?

gee, I thought FD would beat you to it. I was wrong

Gnads wrote on Dec 20^th, 2022 at 2:11pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 2:00pm: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 1:11pm: Nah - you beat everyone... So now a call for a proper reading of the 'title' and a call for sharing equally and fairly AS REQUIRED is 'bigotry'? Sorry, son - but that won't change the reality - they do not own the land outright regardless of how they carry on.... they can use it and share it .. but then - nobody was stopping them doing their cultural practices at any time... like everyone else - they were already free to do that, but now - they'll try to distort the meaning of 'right to cultural practices' into total ownership, which it is not. Only a blind man or a total idiot could not see that.  Nothing but trouble - bad moon on the rise again... native title isn't about sharing equally you moron I phukkin know that...... & as an Australian you're OK with that why?

Let me guess, you think Crown title is about equality? ;D ;D ;D

See - this is where all the do-gooders and the Abos make their biggest mistakes and cause all the trouble - this assuming the possession of Native Title to carry on cultural things somehow translates into absolute ownership.

Well - it doesn't.  Now step aside while the rest of Australia does its cultural things.

Frank wrote on Dec 20^th, 2022 at 3:21pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 10:39am: https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png I am presently listening on the radio to "Christmas Tree" sung in Aboriginal by the Classics Choir.  Sounds wonderful.  Listen to it, Matty.   Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) :D :D That's like saying 'sung in European', you half-witted Tut-tutsie Bbwian.

Which of the 1100+ lingos was that?

John Smith wrote on Dec 20^th, 2022 at 4:22pm:

Gnads wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 2:10pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 12:21pm: this will bring the bigots out in force again :D :D ::) is that all you've got? gee, I thought FD would beat you to it. I was wrong

Nah ... you don't think.

John Smith wrote on Dec 20^th, 2022 at 4:24pm:

Gnads wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 2:11pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 2:00pm: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 1:11pm: Nah - you beat everyone... So now a call for a proper reading of the 'title' and a call for sharing equally and fairly AS REQUIRED is 'bigotry'? Sorry, son - but that won't change the reality - they do not own the land outright regardless of how they carry on.... they can use it and share it .. but then - nobody was stopping them doing their cultural practices at any time... like everyone else - they were already free to do that, but now - they'll try to distort the meaning of 'right to cultural practices' into total ownership, which it is not. Only a blind man or a total idiot could not see that.  Nothing but trouble - bad moon on the rise again... native title isn't about sharing equally you moron I phukkin know that...... & as an Australian you're OK with that why? Let me guess, you think Crown title is about equality? ;D ;D ;D

What bollocks. It has phuckall to do with "crown" title.

But lets just see you set up somewhere on govt land(not crown) because you think you should be entitled to do so.

"The decision means Widjabul Wia-bal traditional owners now have the rights to carry out a number of cultural activities on non-freehold land, such as national parks and crown land."

Not a word about ownership there..... it's not freehold land for anyone including them... got it yet?

Now if they try to stop bushwalkers and climbers they should be arrested..... if they vandalise visitor's cars they should be jailed under terrorism laws and fined and made to pay compensation in full.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q7PULELvok

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 20^th, 2022 at 7:08pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 3:21pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 10:39am: https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png I am presently listening on the radio to "Christmas Tree" sung in Aboriginal by the Classics Choir.  Sounds wonderful.  Listen to it, Matty.   Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) :D :D That's like saying 'sung in European', you half-witted Tut-tutsie Bbwian. Which of the 1100+ lingos was that?

By the sound of it it was one of those made up languages that come from an area where the language has been lost.

And the choir trying to sing it is absolutely pathetically cringeworthy nonsense.

Here are the rights involved:-

    The right to access, move about and traverse.
    The right to camp and erect temporary shelters but not to permanently camp or occupy.
    The right to hunt and fish for non-commercial purposes.
    The right to access and use natural water resources for non-commercial purposes.
    The right to gather, share and exchange natural resources  for non-commercial purposes.
    The right to conduct and participate in ceremonial, ritual and spiritual activities. 
    The right to maintain and protect places of importance under traditional laws and customs.
    The right to transmit traditional knowledge to members of the native title claim group
    The right to hold meetings.

Tell me which one is the clincher and will be the cause of all troubles and of Definition Creep that steadily erodes all rights of all others............ I know already......

BTW - nowhere does it say that these rights are exclusive to them........ and as this is National Parks and Crown land, most of those rights adhere to everyone already....

MORE NIGGGER NONSENSE!

WTF IS AUSTRALIA COMING TO?

I guess someone is just going to have to explain to them the severe limitations on their 'native title' and what it actually means in terms of the rights of all others... and that they don't OWN the land - what a noble concession from government - to offer them the right to use national parks etc!!!

Well - buggar me - I never knew they were excluded from use of national parks ........ isn't that nice of Big Guv to step in and solve their problems that never were?

What an absolutely fake superficial 'gift' of what everyone already possesses - the right to use national parks freely within the laws of the land .... what utter nonsense on all sides.... but of course, the idiots making this ridiculous gesture won't be the ones paying the price....

It will be the people attacked for exercising their rights to use national parks, and then probably the Abos in retaliation etc... some might even cop prison for smashing cars and things to terrorise people into staying out of public land not held by any freehold...

BTW - the government department thieves trying to take possession of OUR public lands to give to their pals are employing the dread lawfare already - they know full well that any and every whine from the pals will be funded fully by us, while anyone else has to foot the bill for any court action... what group or individual can afford that? .....absolute insolence of office and an abuse of privilege and must be stamped out NOW!

Drain the swamps and clean out the sewers....

Christ we've got some idiots pretending to run this country... I suppose now they expect us to take advantage of an opportunity to change Australia Day again... give in to another ridiculous demand from a minority of losers...

This stupid form of government must be intent on causing a civil or race war here... totally stupid and no reason for it.

We need a Reset from the top on down in this country....

Got 'em all on the ropes, Igor - well done, my son... hard facts really stuff 'em, eh?  Mothra is in full retreat after the hiding she took earlier last week... careful using that title.... first ye smell land where there be no land... the sky takes on a sickly colour of death.... all the world is quiet as the grave... not a bird or fish in sight ........ and then she rises!!!  Maybe Adick - the Great White Wailer!!!

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 20^th, 2022 at 1:11pm:

Nah - you beat everyone... So now a call for a proper reading of the 'title' and a call for sharing equally and fairly AS REQUIRED is 'bigotry'? Sorry, son - but that won't change the reality - they do not own the land outright regardless of how they carry on.... they can use it and share it .. but then - nobody was stopping them doing their cultural practices at any time... like everyone else - they were already free to do that, but now - they'll try to distort the meaning of 'right to cultural practices' into total ownership, which it is not. Only a blind man or a total idiot could not see that.  Nothing but trouble - bad moon on the rise again...

I must say I think you are on more solid ground here, as opposed to your trying to denigrate blacks because of their horrifying crime and incarceration stats for which White settlement - with its dispossession and discrimination for nearly 2 centuries - is partly responsible.

Note it's not only black on black crime, the result of total community demoralization (after we "smashed their culture" )  and family dysfunction (after generational poverty maintained by 'state assistance ie the dole) since 1800  - it's also black on white crime, as we are seeing in Alice Springs.

To avoid an apartheid division of black and non-black culture, the only viable long term solution is to intervene to close the gap - not maintain it, as all our policies have resulted in so far.

I know your Libertarian brain rebels from the solution (ie, a Job Guarantee), but there you have it.

 

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 21^st, 2022 at 3:41pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 1:11pm: Nah - you beat everyone... So now a call for a proper reading of the 'title' and a call for sharing equally and fairly AS REQUIRED is 'bigotry'? Sorry, son - but that won't change the reality - they do not own the land outright regardless of how they carry on.... they can use it and share it .. but then - nobody was stopping them doing their cultural practices at any time... like everyone else - they were already free to do that, but now - they'll try to distort the meaning of 'right to cultural practices' into total ownership, which it is not. Only a blind man or a total idiot could not see that.  Nothing but trouble - bad moon on the rise again... I must say I think you are on more solid ground here, as opposed to your trying to denigrate blacks because of their horrifying crime and incarceration stats for which White settlement - with its dispossession and discrimination for nearly 2 centuries - is partly responsible. Note it's not only black on black crime, the result of total community demoralization (after we "smashed their culture" )  and family dysfunction (after generational poverty) since 1800  - it's also black on white crime, as we are seeing in Alice Springs. To avoid an apartheid division of black and non-black culture, the only viable long term solution is to intervene to close the gap - not maintain it, as all our policies have resulted in so far.

Hard facts and figures don't denigrate anyone on the basis of their colour - people who denigrate themselves need no help.  The smashing of the culture - a catch-phrase without much guts to it - did not and does not ruin their lifestyle.... their personal choices do that.  Try to keep up.

Unlike you - I know EXACTLY what it means to be brought up in an environment where it is considered a virtue to 'toughen young blokes up' by abuse and violence etc... and I know full well the outcomes and how very hard it is to get away from that.... but it can be done - and in the case of these young outlaws etc - MUST be done or they will suffer all their lives.

Our policies, costing billions upon billions, to try to get them out of that lifestyle have met with a stonewall of silence and non co-operation... put simply they refuse to go along with the ideas but are happy to see the cash poured out.... then all they want to do is demand things nobody else has or ever had here... all for free....

Life doesn't work that way... and 'their way', the old Indigenous Imperialist Colonisation approach to grabbing land and claiming it, has been overtaken by history for EVERYONE else in the world but them....... you want land - you buy it like everyone else now - you can't just colonial claim it as yours.  You didn't like Captain Cook doing it - so buggar off when you want to do it!

Get your mind right before you slash at me, boy-o!

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 21^st, 2022 at 3:59pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 21st, 2022 at 3:41pm: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 1:11pm: Nah - you beat everyone... So now a call for a proper reading of the 'title' and a call for sharing equally and fairly AS REQUIRED is 'bigotry'? Sorry, son - but that won't change the reality - they do not own the land outright regardless of how they carry on.... they can use it and share it .. but then - nobody was stopping them doing their cultural practices at any time... like everyone else - they were already free to do that, but now - they'll try to distort the meaning of 'right to cultural practices' into total ownership, which it is not. Only a blind man or a total idiot could not see that.  Nothing but trouble - bad moon on the rise again... I must say I think you are on more solid ground here, as opposed to your trying to denigrate blacks because of their horrifying crime and incarceration stats for which White settlement - with its dispossession and discrimination for nearly 2 centuries - is partly responsible. Note it's not only black on black crime, the result of total community demoralization (after we "smashed their culture" )  and family dysfunction (after generational poverty) since 1800  - it's also black on white crime, as we are seeing in Alice Springs. To avoid an apartheid division of black and non-black culture, the only viable long term solution is to intervene to close the gap - not maintain it, as all our policies have resulted in so far.   Hard facts and figures don't denigrate anyone on the basis of their colour - people who denigrate themselves need no help.  The smashing of the culture - a catch-phrase without much guts to it - did not and does not ruin their lifestyle.... their personal choices do that.  Try to keep up.

 

Your first error right there; obviously people who 'denigrate' ( self-harm)  themselves DO need help.


Quote:

Unlike you - I know EXACTLY what it means to be brought up in an environment where it is considered a virtue to 'toughen young blokes up' by abuse and violence etc... and I know full well the outcomes and how very hard it is to get away from that.... but it can be done - and in the case of these young outlaws etc - MUST be done or they will suffer all their lives.

all correct there , congrats. Even Jordan Peterson agrees with both of us, ie, the need to toughen kids up so they become socialized, not harming self or others.  The question is - HOW. 


Quote:

Our policies, costing billions upon billions, to try to get them out of that lifestyle have met with a stonewall of silence and non co-operation... put simply they refuse to go along with the ideas but are happy to see the cash poured out.... then all they want to do is demand things nobody else has or ever had here... all for free....

Back to your full-on error mode; drinking one's-self to death on a Broome beach, surrounded by broken grog bottles , or smashing stolen cars in the Alice, isn't 'silent' or 'happy', it's destructive of self and others.


Quote:

Life doesn't work that way...

Correct; oppress a people with dispossession and destruction of culture, and they will self harm or fight back.


Quote:

and 'their way', the old Indigenous Imperialist Colonisation approach to grabbing land and claiming it, has been overtaken by history for EVERYONE else in the world but them....... you want land - you buy it like everyone else now - you can't just colonial claim it as yours.  You didn't like Captain Cook doing it - so buggar off when you want to do it!

Correct,  more or less, we all have to live together on this continent.


Quote:

Get your mind right before you slash at me, boy-o!

I know your Libertarian brain rebels from the solution (ie, a Job Guarantee), but there you have it.

Gnads wrote on Dec 20^th, 2022 at 7:11pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 4:24pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 2:11pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 2:00pm: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 1:11pm: Nah - you beat everyone... So now a call for a proper reading of the 'title' and a call for sharing equally and fairly AS REQUIRED is 'bigotry'? Sorry, son - but that won't change the reality - they do not own the land outright regardless of how they carry on.... they can use it and share it .. but then - nobody was stopping them doing their cultural practices at any time... like everyone else - they were already free to do that, but now - they'll try to distort the meaning of 'right to cultural practices' into total ownership, which it is not. Only a blind man or a total idiot could not see that.  Nothing but trouble - bad moon on the rise again... native title isn't about sharing equally you moron I phukkin know that...... & as an Australian you're OK with that why? Let me guess, you think Crown title is about equality? ;D ;D ;D What bollocks. It has phuckall to do with "crown" title. But lets just see you set up somewhere on govt land(not crown) because you think you should be entitled to do so.

I'm not the one crying because I feel entitled to any land other than whats mine  :D :D :D

John Smith wrote on Dec 21^st, 2022 at 5:00pm:

Gnads wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 7:11pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 4:24pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 2:11pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 2:00pm: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 1:11pm: Nah - you beat everyone... So now a call for a proper reading of the 'title' and a call for sharing equally and fairly AS REQUIRED is 'bigotry'? Sorry, son - but that won't change the reality - they do not own the land outright regardless of how they carry on.... they can use it and share it .. but then - nobody was stopping them doing their cultural practices at any time... like everyone else - they were already free to do that, but now - they'll try to distort the meaning of 'right to cultural practices' into total ownership, which it is not. Only a blind man or a total idiot could not see that.  Nothing but trouble - bad moon on the rise again... native title isn't about sharing equally you moron I phukkin know that...... & as an Australian you're OK with that why? Let me guess, you think Crown title is about equality? ;D ;D ;D What bollocks. It has phuckall to do with "crown" title. But lets just see you set up somewhere on govt land(not crown) because you think you should be entitled to do so. I'm not the one crying because I feel entitled to any land other than whats mine  :D :D :D

Yeah -the Abos do plenty of that and they still don't own it - NO FREEHOLD... got that?  As national park they are obliged to respect the rights of others meaning they must ensure they share it - it is not theirs to dictate terms over.... only the stupid think that.

Put simply for the ring-ins here - Native Title does not confer freehold ownership - the rights have been listed for you... and at the same time national park users of all kinds have rights as well which will be respected.... now that's enough of your trying to obfuscate over the true meaning of 'native title' ... must I repeat it for you until you understand?

Just for you Slow One:-

The decision means Widjabul Wia-bal traditional owners now have the rights to carry out a number of cultural activities on non-freehold land, such as national parks and crown land.

The right to access, move about and traverse.
The right to camp and erect temporary shelters but not to permanently camp or occupy.
The right to hunt and fish for non-commercial purposes.
The right to access and use natural water resources for non-commercial purposes.
The right to gather, share and exchange natural resources  for non-commercial purposes.
The right to conduct and participate in ceremonial, ritual and spiritual activities. 
The right to maintain and protect places of importance under traditional laws and customs.
The right to transmit traditional knowledge to members of the native title claim group
The right to hold meetings.

All been explained for you before - the BIG note is they can do all those things on NON-FREEHOLD LAND - meaning NOBODY has freehold title over it.  You there yet?  they do not OWN the land and you are always welcome to hand yours 'back' to them any time you want... most of us do not wish to do so, and that includes OUR national parks etc held in trust by governments on behalf of the people as a whole.... even the WOPs...

Bring on the glorious 14th of January - I might have to travel up there and film this one... might even catch the Dodgy Brothers arriving with their spears and nulla-nullas to stage a peaceful counter-protest... maybe a few do-gooders will show up and attempt a speech.... though I doubt it ... when it comes down to real things they are all wind and piss.....

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 21^st, 2022 at 5:08pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 21st, 2022 at 5:00pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 7:11pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 4:24pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 2:11pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 2:00pm: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 1:11pm: Nah - you beat everyone... So now a call for a proper reading of the 'title' and a call for sharing equally and fairly AS REQUIRED is 'bigotry'? Sorry, son - but that won't change the reality - they do not own the land outright regardless of how they carry on.... they can use it and share it .. but then - nobody was stopping them doing their cultural practices at any time... like everyone else - they were already free to do that, but now - they'll try to distort the meaning of 'right to cultural practices' into total ownership, which it is not. Only a blind man or a total idiot could not see that.  Nothing but trouble - bad moon on the rise again... native title isn't about sharing equally you moron I phukkin know that...... & as an Australian you're OK with that why? Let me guess, you think Crown title is about equality? ;D ;D ;D What bollocks. It has phuckall to do with "crown" title. But lets just see you set up somewhere on govt land(not crown) because you think you should be entitled to do so. I'm not the one crying because I feel entitled to any land other than whats mine  :D :D :D Yeah -the Abos do plenty of that and they still don't own it - NO FREEHOLD... got that?  As national park they are obliged to respect the rights of others meaning they must ensure they share it - it is not theirs to dictate terms over.... only the stupid think that. Put simply for the ring-ins here - Native Title does not confer freehold ownership - the rights have been listed for you... and at the same time national park users of all kinds have rights as well which will be respected.... now that's enough of your trying to obfuscate over the true meaning of 'native title' ... must I repeat it for you until you understand? Just for you Slow One:- The decision means Widjabul Wia-bal traditional owners now have the rights to carry out a number of cultural activities on non-freehold land, such as national parks and crown land. The right to access, move about and traverse. The right to camp and erect temporary shelters but not to permanently camp or occupy. The right to hunt and fish for non-commercial purposes. The right to access and use natural water resources for non-commercial purposes. The right to gather, share and exchange natural resources  for non-commercial purposes. The right to conduct and participate in ceremonial, ritual and spiritual activities.  The right to maintain and protect places of importance under traditional laws and customs. The right to transmit traditional knowledge to members of the native title claim group The right to hold meetings. All been explained for you before - the BIG note is they can do all those things on NON-FREEHOLD LAND - meaning NOBODY has freehold title over it.  You there yet?  they do not OWN the land and you are always welcome to hand yours 'back' to them any time you want... most of us do not wish to do so, and that includes OUR national parks etc held in trust by governments on behalf of the people as a whole.... even the WOPs...

Not just the Abos,  you and fd have been doing enough crying for several nations.  And no matter how much you bullshit to yourself,  national parks will never be yours  ::)

Held in trust by government on behalf of ALL the people ... nobody OWNS therm, but in a sense they belong to all of us ...

Easy as pie... and never forget that governments are sworn to uphold and protect the common good of all equally.....  failure means the scaffold....

All Australians are equal under the law

Boris wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2022 at 6:55am:

All Australians are equal under the law

Hasn't been that way since the advent of the feminists who started the rot and the downhill greasy slide with all this emotional bullshit, starting from 'feeling intimidated in the workplace' - what a hoot that was....now look at the joint? 

We've got sheilas rampaging all the way to the bank on purported feelings and flimsy allegations, devastated families and homes and economy, shattered men and their children by the millions, disintegrated social values, freaks screaming at and assaulting women in public toilets and making a spectacle of themselves as some right, a totally falsified 'education' system run by women, a public service the same, and increasingly the political and business arenas, immigrants getting on the bandwagon and crying about being oppressed when they never had it so good including preferential treatment in jobs and education.... and now this ultimate division of the nation into smaller and smaller parcels of increasingly helpless and powerless groups and the direct theft of land by a shadowy government of unelected public servants acting on another set of purported 'feelings' to shut down what were once national parks held for all.

Stalin's Russia etc couldn't have been worse for the ordinary person simply trying to get a decent life and enjoy a little luxury in return for hard work - against these enormous odds.... no wonder there's so much crime and so much cheating and lying going on to get money .....

Do I blame the feminists for starting the rot?  You bet I do .... and every other second rate group of losers who jumped on the bandwagon and rode it to the max.... Christ - we've got a sheila in a man's body for PM ... wish he'd just come out....

John Smith wrote on Dec 21^st, 2022 at 5:00pm:

Gnads wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 7:11pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 4:24pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 2:11pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 2:00pm: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 20th, 2022 at 1:11pm: Nah - you beat everyone... So now a call for a proper reading of the 'title' and a call for sharing equally and fairly AS REQUIRED is 'bigotry'? Sorry, son - but that won't change the reality - they do not own the land outright regardless of how they carry on.... they can use it and share it .. but then - nobody was stopping them doing their cultural practices at any time... like everyone else - they were already free to do that, but now - they'll try to distort the meaning of 'right to cultural practices' into total ownership, which it is not. Only a blind man or a total idiot could not see that.  Nothing but trouble - bad moon on the rise again... native title isn't about sharing equally you moron I phukkin know that...... & as an Australian you're OK with that why? Let me guess, you think Crown title is about equality? ;D ;D ;D What bollocks. It has phuckall to do with "crown" title. But lets just see you set up somewhere on govt land(not crown) because you think you should be entitled to do so. I'm not the one crying because I feel entitled to any land other than whats mine  :D :D :D

Neither do I. You've had too much salt air ... it's crystalising between your ears.

I've paid for my land several times over...... now .................. how much am I bid for this resumed native title land?

Why should a person be entitled to any form of ownership without following the rules?  They could form co-ops in that allegedly inimitable Aboriginal way of the group, and buy land for themselves.... just like everyone else... but claim the country?  They're 3% of the population and they can't claim 97% pf the land mass.

It doesn't work that way any more in the old colonialist imperialist manner where someone could just lay claim to it by walking onto it.  Nowhere else in the world is that now acceptable ..... you can't go to any country on this earth and lay claim to it in that way.... it is outlawed by the international community, so why is it allowed here for some - a small group of malcontents?

Bring on the Glorious 14th Of January....... think I'll head up there and film it.... will the Cheers attack the protest or smash cars etc?  If they do will the authorities do anything?  You can bet the MSM won't show anything bad done by the cheers.. poor little victims....

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png

Racist, misogynist and boring.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Kids in alleged rape of boy, 5, on Cape York
A five-year-old boy was allegedly gang-raped on a beach by other children from a remote Indigenous community on Cape York this month.

Boris wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2022 at 2:14pm:

Kids in alleged rape of boy, 5, on Cape York A five-year-old boy was allegedly gang-raped on a beach by other children from a remote Indigenous community on Cape York this month.

Read your own articles ... it was 2 years ago.

And it was discussed on OzPol back then.

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2022 at 1:49pm:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png Racist, misogynist and boring.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Sure hits the spot, though, eh?

Truth has a way of not sitting well with the hardened ideologues .... I suppose you still believe in the wage gap against women ....

https://media.tenor.com/mW38fLs0y14AAAAM/spit-laugh.gif

Gnads wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2022 at 9:50am:

Neither do I. You've had too much salt air ... it's crystalising between your ears.

Sure you are. You  and others are here crying because you can't clink Mt warning and others can ... boo hoo

John Smith wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2022 at 3:18pm:

Gnads wrote on Dec 22nd, 2022 at 9:50am: Neither do I. You've had too much salt air ... it's crystalising between your ears. Sure you are. You  and others are here crying because you can't clink Mt warning and others can ... boo hoo

Bring on the glorious Fourteenth of January... the people will have a voice..... (snuckles)...

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2022 at 3:04pm:

Truth has a way of not sitting well with the hardened ideologues .... I suppose you still believe in the wage gap against women ....

Talk about off-topic, but I'll play.

I know you want to see better pay for all those women  (and men) working in age - and child-care industries.

What gives? 

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2022 at 4:37pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 22nd, 2022 at 3:04pm: Truth has a way of not sitting well with the hardened ideologues .... I suppose you still believe in the wage gap against women .... Talk about off-topic, but I'll play. I know you want to see better pay for all those women  (and men) working in age - and child-care industries. What gives?

Women are currently in receipt of 7% per hour worked more than men, not including penalty rates.  Increasing rates of pay in aged and child care areas are SECTOR rises - and probably needed - and have nothing to do with a person's sex.  Considering the smarmy Albo-style presumption to be that more women work in those areas of work - that means the actual gap AGAINST men will rise again...

The 'wage gap' against women is a lie on more than one front - firstly in no industry are they paid less for the same work; the actual figures show that they are currently paid 7% more per actual hour worked (they work fewer hours); and nowhere are they disadvantaged in education and promotion and employment - STILL receiving preference in certain industries despite the 7% per hour pay gap against men; and still in receipt of open-ended quotas that read "at LEAST 50% women", these being the top paid salaried positions etc....

You DO understand rate of pay per hour as opposed to total earnings, don't you?  It's not rocket surgery....

I tell you - this country is in desperate need of a Great Reset and the draining of many swamps... I'll be the guy owning the two masted sailing ship going up the coast and waving to you fools onshore as I head to my haven in The Azores... sandy beaches, drinking rum every night... a hop across the Atlantic to Bermuda etc... rub shoulders with the stars etc .... I've done my bit over and over... so stuff yez all in your self-made stupidity...

The "Widjabul Wia-bal people"  ;D, fkk off.

Johnnie wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2022 at 7:11pm:

The "Widjabul Wia-bal people"  ;D, fkk off.

Well - they're all a mixed crew these days - only a few are the Originals... look at the stoush over the Goat Island re-capture in Sydney Harbour and the few descendants of the real locals and all the blow-ins on that Sydney Land Council (only the descendants of those who got along with Whartey and didn't attempt to Genocide Whartey back into the sea were still there)... that's where you see all the petty tribal disputing going on... locals vs ring-ins who take over ....

Amazing how history works in reality, innit? First we are still suffering the ancient and worn-out and now internationally scorned and frankly illegal claiming possession of land via the Indigenous Imperialist Colonialist method of just seeing it and laying claim to it same as those evil oppressive murdering European, Asian and Middle Eastern colonialists historically did, and now we've got the Attempted Genocide of White Settlers having back-fired on those who took up the spear and nulla-nulla to drive Whartey into the sea...

Just like the antics and violence of the suffragettes - a true analysis of history shows clearly where the true wrongs were and how they back-fired.... while women in Australia had the universal vote from 1901 or so - English women were still waiting due to the burnings and violence of suffragettes to get their vote....

True History 101 ...... might be an anti-Pascoe re-rendering in it for a fortune and a professorship.... I recall an uncle once long ago saying that we were actually White and had White blood in us.... yeah....

....coming over a hill on our tired shank's ponies we encountered a township of many dwellings, the white natives of which came up to us in wonderment... they were so many that had they not been disposed to be friendly, we could not have made our escape ....they offered us steak, eggs and vegetables and they were the best we'd ever eaten.... and they had agriculture and aquaculture on a grand scale.....their township covered many acres and even miles of country they were so numerous....."... excerpt from 'Light Emu' by Herr Colonel Professor Grappler - Grappler Free University Press, 2023 ....

I reckon I could bullshit that one through.....

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png

Your Racism is a curse, Graps.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... 

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2022 at 7:53pm:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png Your Racism is a curse, Graps.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...

Why be such a k**t, Bbwian?? What is the irresistible attraction for you?
There is no such thing as race, mong - your line.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2022 at 3:20pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 22nd, 2022 at 3:18pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 22nd, 2022 at 9:50am: Neither do I. You've had too much salt air ... it's crystalising between your ears. Sure you are. You  and others are here crying because you can't clink Mt warning and others can ... boo hoo Bring on the glorious Fourteenth of January... the people will have a voice..... (snuckles)...

Yeah all 3 of you and your zimmer frames..... can't wait  :D

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2022 at 7:53pm:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png Your Racism is a curse, Graps.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...

Tsk, tsk, tsk, Brian - we know truth hurts... I'm just Truth-telling here...

Do you not see a clear parallel between Indigenous Colonisation of Australia and all other forms of Colonialism from the ancient times on down? Do you not see that - according to the histories - it was not Whitey who took up arms to drive the Indigenous out - but that some Indigenous sought to wipe Whitey out = Genocide - and/or drive him back into the sea - and failed?  And that those who lived peacefully are still there in their traditional lands and able to properly claim unbroken native possession etc and thus get the goodies and that they rightly resent outsiders coming in and partaking of their hard-won claims etc..... and that most groups these days are not contiguous tribal groups but a mix - you are forever lamenting the way they are 'forced' to live in close proximity with their ancient enemies etc and that is all the trouble... think on, lad...

Where do you imagine the Ella Brothers came from and the Settlement at Little Bay etc came from?  Are you kidding me?

Just Truth-telling Brian - telling it like it is....

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png

Tsk, tsk, tsk... Boring old white men, looking for their zimmer-frames...   ::) ::)

https://media4.giphy.com/media/26tjZmRqyPj9jUd56/200w.gif

John Smith wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2022 at 3:18pm:

Gnads wrote on Dec 22nd, 2022 at 9:50am: Neither do I. You've had too much salt air ... it's crystalising between your ears. Sure you are. You  and others are here crying because you can't clink Mt warning and others can ... boo hoo

Only part of those "others" can ... not all of them.

You've forgotton all about secret mens & secret womens business haven't you?

Don't you think part of those others are being mysogynistic/partriarchal oppressors?

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2022 at 9:58pm:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png Tsk, tsk, tsk... Boring old white men, looking for their zimmer-frames...   ::) ::)

Are you self-describing Bwyan?

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2022 at 5:50pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 22nd, 2022 at 4:37pm: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 22nd, 2022 at 3:04pm: Truth has a way of not sitting well with the hardened ideologues .... I suppose you still believe in the wage gap against women .... Talk about off-topic, but I'll play. I know you want to see better pay for all those women  (and men) working in age - and child-care industries. What gives?  Women are currently in receipt of 7% per hour worked more than men, not including penalty rates.  Increasing rates of pay in aged and child care areas are SECTOR rises - and probably needed - and have nothing to do with a person's sex.

Good, I'm glad we sorted that out, except of course age and child care workers are 90% female, so ...de facto gender related 


Quote:

Considering the smarmy Albo-style presumption to be that more women work in those areas of work - that means the actual gap AGAINST men will rise again...

That's not the fault of the women working in the predominantly female-staffed, underpaid child and age care industries.   


Quote:

The 'wage gap' against women is a lie on more than one front - firstly in no industry are they paid less for the same work; the actual figures show that they are currently paid 7% more per actual hour worked (they work fewer hours); and nowhere are they disadvantaged in education and promotion and employment - STILL receiving preference in certain industries despite the 7% per hour pay gap against men; and still in receipt of open-ended quotas that read "at LEAST 50% women", these being the top paid salaried positions etc....

Ok, you win....but just make sure those child and age care workers get paid a proper living wage.


Quote:

You DO understand rate of pay per hour as opposed to total earnings, don't you?  It's not rocket surgery....

Yes.


Quote:

I tell you - this country is in desperate need of a Great Reset and the draining of many swamps... I'll be the guy owning the two masted sailing ship going up the coast and waving to you fools onshore as I head to my haven in The Azores... sandy beaches, drinking rum every night... a hop across the Atlantic to Bermuda etc... rub shoulders with the stars etc .... I've done my bit over and over... so stuff yez all in your self-made stupidity...

So you worked hard (hopefully honestly), and are entitled to the retirement you choose.

My concerns are with enabling above-poverty participation for all, during their working lives.

"It's the economy, stupid".

Gnads wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2022 at 8:55am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 22nd, 2022 at 3:18pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 22nd, 2022 at 9:50am: Neither do I. You've had too much salt air ... it's crystalising between your ears. Sure you are. You  and others are here crying because you can't clink Mt warning and others can ... boo hoo Only part of those "others" can ... not all of them. You've forgotton all about secret mens & secret womens business haven't you? Don't you think part of those others are being mysogynistic/partriarchal oppressors?

so you agree now that you were crying about it
:D

I'm waiting for the riot on 14th January and the lies the media will tell....

"He who strikes the first blow leaves the deepest cut!" old proverb from Carlos (Flick-knife) de Barrio

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2022 at 4:45pm:

I'm waiting for the riot on 14th January and the lies the media will tell.... "He who strikes the first blow leaves the deepest cut!" old proverb from Carlos (Flick-knife) de Barrio

Yes Mt. Warning will be the line in the sand, they can fkk off back to the Stone Age and take their fkkn spirits with them if they don't like it here  8-)

Johnnie wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2022 at 5:30pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 23rd, 2022 at 4:45pm: I'm waiting for the riot on 14th January and the lies the media will tell.... "He who strikes the first blow leaves the deepest cut!" old proverb from Carlos (Flick-knife) de Barrio Yes Mt. Warning will be the line in the sand, they can fkk off back to the Stone Age and take their fkkn spirits with them if they don't like it here  8-)

Any confrontation will not come from the protestors.... but you know how the media love to spin things ... can't get there myself with cameras.... buggar... in the meantime, so as to upset someone and make a statement:-

https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/view-over-caldera-mount-warning-260nw-120754978.jpg

Quote:

can't get there myself

Fd was relying on you being there.  Now it'll just be him and Boris attending  :D

Will you be attending.... on the Dark Side....  use the farce, Luke....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGKU8awk7Vg

People will not go there because of the spirits. Fkkn useless Boongs

Johnnie wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2022 at 8:26pm:

People will not go there because of the spirits. Fkkn useless Boongs

Let them not go there if they're frightened of the spirits - I'm happy to shake the hand of any spirit I meet... I'm sure they would recognise me... I may not mean much - but I sure left a mark on many... and none of it bad...

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2022 at 9:00pm:

Johnnie wrote on Dec 23rd, 2022 at 8:26pm: People will not go there because of the spirits. Fkkn useless Boongs Let them not go there if they're frightened of the spirits - I'm happy to shake the hand of any spirit I meet... I'm sure they would recognise me... I may not mean much - but I sure left a mark on many... and none of it bad...

The Boong fkkn spirits are special because they have culture.

Johnnie wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2022 at 9:08pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 23rd, 2022 at 9:00pm: Johnnie wrote on Dec 23rd, 2022 at 8:26pm: People will not go there because of the spirits. Fkkn useless Boongs Let them not go there if they're frightened of the spirits - I'm happy to shake the hand of any spirit I meet... I'm sure they would recognise me... I may not mean much - but I sure left a mark on many... and none of it bad... The Boong fkkn spirits are special because they have culture.

Hunter-gatherers have a basic culture and that's it - there is no Culture in it....

I suppose like everything else these days - we all have to be culturally diverse.... neurologically diverse like Greta... gender diverse if we feel a moment's surge for another type of women or something (gimme a fatty for a change)..... all just part of the spectrum of human normality and not to be considered abnormal any more.... maybe freediver should become freediverse or something....

Funny thing is - I'm not diverse in any of those areas... nor are the majority..... so each to his/her own, is the watchword.  I'm relentlessly heterosexual, love women and abhor feminism (not culturally diverse, you see), shudder at the thought of gay sex in any way (not gender diverse, you see), am certified 100% sane by the Veterans Affairs shrinks (not neurologically diverse, you see), shudder at the thought of 'gender reassignment' (not perversion diverse, you see), am just little old me with mixed DNA (genetically diverse, you see - like most others apart from the crazies of this current world who are not diverse in any way - you know the type - they inbreed) ... well - I guess I'm just a dying breed.......

Soon we non-diverse people will be extinct - some here keep telling us that history has overtaken us..... well ... I reply this:- 

"Fidel Castro, in taking to the hills to fight his civil war, said:- "History will absolve me!" ... history will absolve ME - but it will hang you....."

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2022 at 9:23pm:

Johnnie wrote on Dec 23rd, 2022 at 9:08pm: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 23rd, 2022 at 9:00pm: Johnnie wrote on Dec 23rd, 2022 at 8:26pm: People will not go there because of the spirits. Fkkn useless Boongs Let them not go there if they're frightened of the spirits - I'm happy to shake the hand of any spirit I meet... I'm sure they would recognise me... I may not mean much - but I sure left a mark on many... and none of it bad... The Boong fkkn spirits are special because they have culture. Hunter-gatherers have a basic culture and that's it - there is no Culture in it.... I suppose like everything else these days - we all have to be culturally diverse.... neurologically diverse like Greta... gender diverse if we feel a moment's surge for another type of women or something (gimme a fatty for a change)..... all just part of the spectrum of human normality and not to be considered abnormal any more.... maybe freediver should become freediverse or something.... Funny thing is - I'm not diverse in any of those areas... nor are the majority..... so each to his/her own, is the watchword.  I'm relentlessly heterosexual, love women and abhor feminism (not culturally diverse, you see), shudder at the thought of gay sex in any way (not gender diverse, you see), am certified 100% sane by the Veterans Affairs shrinks (not neurologically diverse, you see), shudder at the thought of 'gender reassignment' (not perversion diverse, you see), am just little old me with mixed DNA (genetically diverse, you see - like most others apart from the crazies of this current world who are not diverse in any way - you know the type) ... well - I guess I'm just a dying breed....... Soon we non-diverse people will be extinct - some here keep telling us that history has overtaken us..... well ... I reply this:-  Fidel Castro, in taking to the hills to fight his civil war, said:- "History will absolve me!" ... history will absolve ME - but it will hang you.....

It's time to round em up bring em in and brand em.

https://youtu.be/PFGyhSifqzA

All this diversity BS is like a component of Joe (101st Ab - Vietnam)  Haldemann's "Forever War" (you ought to read his book "1968") - gender fluidity became the norm and the heterosexual was the pervert .... and like his protagonist  - the Old Perv Captain who had done one tour in interstellar war and had come back years later via time dilation (an allegory for coming home from Vietnam to the World), when confronted by a 'leader' (activist) of the new oddball kind on his next tour when he was in command - said that he wished he had thrown him out the airlock at the first hint of trouble.....

That is such an allegory for modern society - goddamn it - I wish we had thrown them out of the airlock at the first hint of trouble..... in civilised terms it's called simply saying NO and setting boundaries for recalcitrant children.... something that parents and 'early educators' seem singularly incapable of doing these days... look at the perversions of humanity doing the rounds..... (sounds extreme - but not really - these are perversions of humanity and lead to Oblivion) ...

My old German neighbour Fred (Freidrich) said to me once that children are born barbarians and it is our duty to civilise them.... as a society we have singularly failed to do just that in a terrible number of cases, and now are suffering the results - 'our' first mistake as a society was treating girls as princesses......

Well - they are... my daughter and grand-daughters are princesses - and rightly so - but they are supposed to be limited by noblesse oblige.... the DUTY to treat all others fairly .... and that is where we, as a society , have gone wrong.... not teaching them noblesse oblige, but rather creating of them grasping peasants like the Normans.

Yeah - you're right - I'm from ancient royalty and I know the ropes... my grandmother was Royalty....

You just don't get it, do you?

That's why you all need to be excluded from governance of this country..... this land is my land.... it's the only land I have... I was born here... my antecedents were born here..... this land is my land.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGKU8awk7Vg

The Widjabul Wia-bal people can go and well and truly rooted, they are like the rest of their mob, welfare dependent violent destructive bludgers, they can go back to the stone age where they belong.

They need this land so they can have privacy to rape murder and eat children

Boris wrote on Dec 24^th, 2022 at 11:47am:

They need this land so they can have privacy to rape murder and eat children

to call you stupid is an insult to stupid people. I'm surprised you remember to breath

Boris wrote on Dec 24^th, 2022 at 11:47am:

They need this land so they can have privacy to rape murder and eat children

You need to differentiate between religious ceremony/ritual, and criminal activity.

Of course some of ancient religious ceremony/ritual - if it still exists - must be proscribed, in the modern world.

So being a religious thing makes it all right?

OK ...................

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 24^th, 2022 at 12:17pm:

So being a religious thing makes it all right? OK ...................

"Of course some of ancient religious ceremony/ritual - if it still exists - must be proscribed, in the modern world".

See how blind ideology incapacitates comprehension....

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 24^th, 2022 at 1:12pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 24th, 2022 at 12:17pm: So being a religious thing makes it all right? OK ................... "Of course some of ancient religious ceremony/ritual - if it still exists - must be proscribed, in the modern world". See how blind ideology incapacitates comprehension....

Sounds like the blind ideology adheres to some of ancient religious ceremony/ritual... bring back human sacrifice for equality's sake......

John Smith wrote on Dec 24^th, 2022 at 11:55am:

Boris wrote on Dec 24th, 2022 at 11:47am: They need this land so they can have privacy to rape murder and eat children to call you stupid is an insult to stupid people. I'm surprised you remember to breath

They still rape and murder children I have seen it

You haven't

Everything they touch turns to poo

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 24^th, 2022 at 12:03pm:

Boris wrote on Dec 24th, 2022 at 11:47am: They need this land so they can have privacy to rape murder and eat children You need to differentiate between religious ceremony/ritual, and criminal activity. Of course some of ancient religious ceremony/ritual - if it still exists - must be proscribed, in the modern world.

So is a priest sodomised an Alter Boy its OK because its religious?

If an abo gang rapes little boys its OK because its "Cultural"?

Rape is rape

Nobody will worry about their doing traditional things..... it's just a good thing they don't actually own it... so the reality is that nothing has changed ... nobody stopped them wandering about and camping and catching yabbies etc ...and the wording is clear - they can only do those things on non-freehold property - meaning nobody has freehold over it including them.

Be interesting to see though.... stupid governments just love to trigger things like this to keep the people distracted from their sneaky moves behind our backs - the real Agenda .... cause a ruckus over absolutely nothing and set groups against one another again.. divide and conquer and give themselves an excuse to 'intervene' and remove more real Rights a bit at a time... if a stoush breaks out over this, as they are clearly setting up to happen, they can move in to 'protect' people by locking everyone else out.... regardless of who starts the trouble and breaks the rules laid down in black and white....

They are all Fascists at heart.. every last one of them .... only a blind fool would think otherwise..... trust not politicians bearing grift ... they all speak with forked tongue...

Boris wrote on Dec 24^th, 2022 at 1:28pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 24th, 2022 at 12:03pm: Boris wrote on Dec 24th, 2022 at 11:47am: They need this land so they can have privacy to rape murder and eat children You need to differentiate between religious ceremony/ritual, and criminal activity. Of course some of ancient religious ceremony/ritual - if it still exists - must be proscribed, in the modern world. So is a priest sodomised an Alter Boy its OK because its religious?

No its a crime, not religious ritual.


Quote:

If an abo gang rapes little boys its OK because its "Cultural"?

You're the one claiming the (pre British invasion) black culture included ceremonial rape.  I already said ancient religious practices such as this (if they existed) must be banned in the modern world. 


Quote:

Rape is rape

indeed; whether ceremonial/cultural, or an individual taking advantage of a random situation.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 24^th, 2022 at 1:54pm:

(Politicians) are all Fascists at heart.. every last one of them .... only a blind fool would think otherwise..... trust not politicians bearing grift ... they all speak with forked tongue...

That's harsh, and wrong.

Politicians legislate, because "all must submit to rule of law, if all are to be free" (Cicero). 

But the current economic orthodoxy insists governments must borrow from, or tax,  the reluctant private sector, hence the never ending merry go round between the high-taxers (LW pollies)  and low govt. spenders (RW pollies).

...a dysfunctional economic orthodoxy which earns politicians the opprobrium of a disillusioned electorate.

"all must submit to rule of proper law, if all are to be free".

Go - tell it to the Jews in Nazi Germany about submission to the rule of law...

The Abbos can fkk off, everybody has to pull their own weight but they just sit on their fkkn arses in the dirt with their hands out drinking VB, fkkn bludgers.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 24^th, 2022 at 9:08pm:

"all must submit to rule of proper law, if all are to be free". Go - tell it to the Jews in Nazi Germany about submission to the rule of law...

Yes... all must submit to law designed to protect the principles outlined in the UNUDHR ie the well being and security of all.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 25^th, 2022 at 11:29am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 24th, 2022 at 9:08pm: "all must submit to rule of proper law, if all are to be free". Go - tell it to the Jews in Nazi Germany about submission to the rule of law... Yes... all must submit to law designed to protect the principles outlined in the UNUDHR ie the well being and security of all.

Ah ..... no they don't .............. and if a nation (gasps - distant thunder) using its sovereign right (double thunder), CHOOSES to do so - they must use those equally and fairly and not in pursuit of certain.... supremacist dogmas...

See how the argument against sovereign rights falls down time after time?  And NO law or principle is perfect - so perfect that it cannot be perverted to the mindset of any ruling party ... as history so clearly shows us time and time again... the greatest good for the greatest number can lead to 49% deaths....... (Hint - where does that figure come from?) .... ten million in Ukraine 1930's...a third plus of Cambodia's population .... fifty million in China .... countless millions in Russia... many millions worldwide in two world wars ..... all done for the 'greater good' .... just a fair go for the people as a whole, no??

I warned yez already - when it comes to politicians - beware of freaks bearing grift.... they have zero compulsion or remorse or conscience about installing some 'little thing' to suit some tiny minority of whingers - it's only a little thing, just a fair go, what are you so afraid of and crying about?.... no matter what it costs countless others.... and as I warned yez about the steady erosion of Rights (as opposed to those demands for privileges often titled 'rights') ... each is a part of the continent, a portion of the whole.... and each is interwoven .... the removal of tiny piece after tiny piece leads to the Downfall of the entire edifice.....

Nah then - about my Right to free use of MY national parks ................................... fail to put your fingers in that dyke and all falls down.... as a society we've been asleep at the wheel while march after march was stolen on us - imagining, as good people do, that those stealing marches wouldn't do us harm since we would  do none to them........ and by the time you wake up, the barbarians are inside the walls....

Read a thing on Twitter last night - someone else has woken to the fact that the ideologues, the Accredited Victims/Stakeholders (but never by any means all stakeholders), of all kinds, with their 'new science' etc - always gain a march on everyone else.... and it is then an uphill fight - the Western Front Allies mired in the mud while the ideologues hold the high ground - to restore the old borders of simple sanity ..

Blind if you can't see that.. adhere to the UN?  Are you joking?  Every argument you've put forward for that is in the dustbin... down the tubes.. gone, cremated and buried..... only a fool would adhere to the UN and be at the mercy of every pissy tribal group on earth....  BTW - national sovereignty, in case after case in Darkest Africa, lead to the UN dithering over whether or not to intervene to stop genocide etc... sovereign nations often stepped in first... Britain, France... you know the drift....

Nah then - about those twisted immigration policies...... just look at Britain now and weep ..... they buggered it ....

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 25^th, 2022 at 11:46am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 25th, 2022 at 11:29am: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 24th, 2022 at 9:08pm: "all must submit to rule of proper law, if all are to be free". Go - tell it to the Jews in Nazi Germany about submission to the rule of law... Yes... all must submit to law designed to protect the principles outlined in the UNUDHR ie the well being and security of all. Ah ..... no they don't ..............

Er... you agreed "all must submit to "proper" rule of law, without defining proper, whereas I did define "proper", namely, the well-bing and security of all.


Quote:

and if a nation (gasps - distant thunder)

Why all the histrionics?  A nation today is merely a conglomerate of peoples from all around the world.


Quote:

using its sovereign right (double thunder),

more histrionics


Quote:

CHOOSES to do so - they must use those equally and fairly and not in pursuit of certain.... supremacist dogmas...

You Libertarian fraud: wellbeing and security for all is THE business of Law.


Quote:

See how the argument against sovereign rights falls down time after time?

of course it falls down... to a Libertarian fraud who demands individual rights above collective wellbeing. 



Quote:

And NO law or principle is perfect - so perfect that it cannot be perverted to the mindset of any ruling party ... as history so clearly shows us time and time again...

So hiding behind the past is a good excuse to promote the Libertarian fraud on the collective.

Note: technological advance  has eliminated scarcity,  so you can let go of the self-interested  Libertarian every man for himself system, and replace it with well-being and security for all.   Wake up.   


Quote:

the greatest good for the greatest number can lead to 49% deaths

(the highlighted) Obsolete concept; now we have the productive capacity to  attain wellbeing and security for all not 49% or any other figure less than 100%.


Quote:

.... ten million in Ukraine 1930's...a third plus of Cambodia's population .... fifty million in China .... countless millions in Russia... many millions worldwide in two world wars ..... all done for the 'greater good' .... just a fair go for the people as a whole, no??

 

Like I said, history; and your delusional Libertarian  every man for himself ideology is STILL complicit in the current Ukraine war which should have been prevented by the UNSC....except the obsolete concept of national sovereignty means Putin could go in, citing "national security". 
Insane, going to war with inestimable costs to life and property - for "national security". 


Quote:

I warned yez already -

A warning from a Libertarian - like putting the fox in charge of the hen house.....

Let's try a job guarantee ............. they won't need to grasp for smacking land then, eh?

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 25^th, 2022 at 12:23pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 25th, 2022 at 11:46am: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 25th, 2022 at 11:29am: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 24th, 2022 at 9:08pm: "all must submit to rule of proper law, if all are to be free". Go - tell it to the Jews in Nazi Germany about submission to the rule of law... Yes... all must submit to law designed to protect the principles outlined in the UNUDHR ie the well being and security of all. Ah ..... no they don't .............. Er... you agreed "all must submit to "proper" rule of law, without defining proper, whereas I did define "proper", namely, the well-bing and security of all. Quote: and if a nation (gasps - distant thunder) Why all the histrionics?  A nation today is merely a conglomerate of peoples from all around the world. [quote]using its sovereign right (double thunder),

more histrionics


Quote:

CHOOSES to do so - they must use those equally and fairly and not in pursuit of certain.... supremacist dogmas...

You Libertarian fraud: wellbeing and security for all is THE business of Law.


Quote:

See how the argument against sovereign rights falls down time after time?

of course it falls down... to a Libertarian fraud who demands individual rights above collective wellbeing. 



Quote:

And NO law or principle is perfect - so perfect that it cannot be perverted to the mindset of any ruling party ... as history so clearly shows us time and time again...

So hiding behind the past is a good excuse to promote the Libertarian fraud on the collective.

Note: technological advance  has eliminated scarcity,  so you can let go of the self-interested  Libertarian every man for himself system, and replace it with well-being and security for all.   Wake up.   


Quote:

the greatest good for the greatest number can lead to 49% deaths

(the highlighted) Obsolete concept; now we have the productive capacity to  attain wellbeing and security for all not 49% or any other figure less than 100%.


Quote:

.... ten million in Ukraine 1930's...a third plus of Cambodia's population .... fifty million in China .... countless millions in Russia... many millions worldwide in two world wars ..... all done for the 'greater good' .... just a fair go for the people as a whole, no??

 

Like I said, history; and your delusional Libertarian  every man for himself ideology is STILL complicit in the current Ukraine war which should have been prevented by the UNSC....except the obsolete concept of national sovereignty means Putin could go in, citing "national security". 
Insane, going to war with inestimable costs to life and property - for "national security". 


Quote:

I warned yez already -

A warning from a Libertarian - like putting the fox in charge of the hen house.....[/quote]


Not THAT, Poppets - is called totally missing the points raised.  The UN prevented nothing....it has no balls..... tgheyprevented nothing in Africa going all the way back to the heady days of dismantling colonialisation... when massacres of Whites and other tribes were prevalent.... and often only mercenaries could quell the tides of slaughter...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Mike_Hoare#Congo_Crisis_(1961%E2%80%9365)

Clearly you need to get out of your narrow books and into a wider range.....

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 25^th, 2022 at 1:58pm:

Let's try a job guarantee ............. they won't need to grasp for smacking land then, eh?

exactly, but a re-education process for the 'cultural warriors' on all sides will be necessary as well, obviously.

There is no "right" to ownership of land, only a requirement  for decent affordable housing for all....private or public, doesn't matter. 

Do children have a right not to go into the pot?

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 25^th, 2022 at 2:02pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 25th, 2022 at 12:23pm: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 25th, 2022 at 11:46am: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 25th, 2022 at 11:29am: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 24th, 2022 at 9:08pm: "all must submit to rule of proper law, if all are to be free". Go - tell it to the Jews in Nazi Germany about submission to the rule of law... Yes... all must submit to law designed to protect the principles outlined in the UNUDHR ie the well being and security of all. Ah ..... no they don't .............. Er... you agreed "all must submit to "proper" rule of law, without defining proper, whereas I did define "proper", namely, the well-bing and security of all. Quote: and if a nation (gasps - distant thunder) Why all the histrionics?  A nation today is merely a conglomerate of peoples from all around the world. [quote]using its sovereign right (double thunder), more histrionics [quote]CHOOSES to do so - they must use those equally and fairly and not in pursuit of certain.... supremacist dogmas...

You Libertarian fraud: wellbeing and security for all is THE business of Law.


Quote:

See how the argument against sovereign rights falls down time after time?

of course it falls down... to a Libertarian fraud who demands individual rights above collective wellbeing. 



Quote:

And NO law or principle is perfect - so perfect that it cannot be perverted to the mindset of any ruling party ... as history so clearly shows us time and time again...

So hiding behind the past is a good excuse to promote the Libertarian fraud on the collective.

Note: technological advance  has eliminated scarcity,  so you can let go of the self-interested  Libertarian every man for himself system, and replace it with well-being and security for all.   Wake up.   


Quote:

the greatest good for the greatest number can lead to 49% deaths

(the highlighted) Obsolete concept; now we have the productive capacity to  attain wellbeing and security for all not 49% or any other figure less than 100%.


Quote:

.... ten million in Ukraine 1930's...a third plus of Cambodia's population .... fifty million in China .... countless millions in Russia... many millions worldwide in two world wars ..... all done for the 'greater good' .... just a fair go for the people as a whole, no??

 

Like I said, history; and your delusional Libertarian  every man for himself ideology is STILL complicit in the current Ukraine war which should have been prevented by the UNSC....except the obsolete concept of national sovereignty means Putin could go in, citing "national security". 
Insane, going to war with inestimable costs to life and property - for "national security". 


Quote:

I warned yez already -

A warning from a Libertarian - like putting the fox in charge of the hen house.....[/quote]


Not THAT, Poppets - is called totally missing the points raised. [/quote] 

I demonstrably addressed all your arguments raised (quoted in full), one by one. That you can't refute my arguments as presented is the issue here.



Quote:

The UN prevented nothing....it has no balls...

That's what I said: Putin went into Ukraine, because the UNSC - with its separate veto powers - is incapable of preventing him from going in. So now we have a proxy war of attrition between the US and Russia, with the Ukrainians as cannon fodder. (Russia will lose of course, because the US is 15 times the size of the Russian economy, while the Ukraine is being pummelled).


Quote:

theyprevented nothing in Africa going all the way back to the heady days of dismantling colonialisation... when massacres of Whites and other tribes were prevalent.... and often only mercenaries could quell the tides of slaughter...

Er ...European colonialization was established before the UN; and as stated, the UNSC was powerless to keep the peace, because dismantling colonialism often involved proxy wars between the US and USSR, or lack of interest in funding the costs of successful de-colonialization (the colonizer just can't walk away without managing change of ownership of land and businesses).   


Quote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Mike_Hoare#Congo_Crisis_(1961%E2%80%9365) Clearly you need to get out of your narrow books and into a wider range.....

You mean get into "real politics" ...with its unending wars and entrenched poverty?   

Re the Simba rebellion, the first in your linked article:

" The Simba rebellion, also known as the Orientale revolt,[9] was a regional uprising which took place in the Democratic Republic of the Congo between 1963 and 1965 in the wider context of the Congo Crisis and the Cold War"

"Mad Mike Hoare"....  a born murderer, or at least an opportunist making a quick quid out of tribal conflict...and geopolitical proxy conflict between 2 members of the UN "Security" (sic) Council itself...

Well may you have simply addressed the arguments - you did not score a single hit though with all your addressing.  Slippery as an eel...

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 1:30pm:

Well may you have simply addressed the arguments - you did not score a single hit though with all your addressing.  Slippery as an eel...

That's not debate; you can't decide the "score" - like the fox in charge of the henhouse; you need to refute the arguments, not merely claim "slippery as an eel" 

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 25^th, 2022 at 12:23pm:

So hiding behind the past is a good excuse to promote the Libertarian fraud on the collective. Note: technological advance  has eliminated scarcity,  so you can let go of the self-interested  Libertarian every man for himself system, and replace it with well-being and security for all.   Wake up.    .... (the highlighted) Obsolete concept; now we have the productive capacity to  attain wellbeing and security for all not 49% or any other figure less than 100%. .... Like I said, history; and your delusional Libertarian  every man for himself ideology is STILL complicit in the current Ukraine war which should have been prevented by the UNSC....except the obsolete concept of national sovereignty means Putin could go in, citing "national security".  Insane, going to war with inestimable costs to life and property - for "national security".

This is just more idiotic psittacism, parrot.

When was the last time that 'every man for himself' was the system?   Have you not heard the term 'welfare state', parrot?  Here, gedditintaya: https://www.britannica.com/topic/welfare-state




As for the UN preventing any war - well, you can stick it up yet jumper.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1113152

Frank wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 2:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 25th, 2022 at 12:23pm: So hiding behind the past is a good excuse to promote the Libertarian fraud on the collective. Note: technological advance  has eliminated scarcity,  so you can let go of the self-interested  Libertarian every man for himself system, and replace it with well-being and security for all.   Wake up.    .... (the highlighted) Obsolete concept; now we have the productive capacity to  attain wellbeing and security for all not 49% or any other figure less than 100%. .... Like I said, history; and your delusional Libertarian  every man for himself ideology is STILL complicit in the current Ukraine war which should have been prevented by the UNSC....except the obsolete concept of national sovereignty means Putin could go in, citing "national security".  Insane, going to war with inestimable costs to life and property - for "national security".  This is just more idiotic psittacism, parrot.

pass


Quote:

When was the last time that 'every man for himself' was the system? Have you not heard the term 'welfare state', parrot?  Here, gedditintaya: https://www.britannica.com/topic/welfare-state

Please keep abreast of the times: the Keynesian 'welfare state' (1946 -1970s) was dismantled by foolish supply- side neoliberal economic theorists  like Milton Friedman, from the 80s on.


Quote:

As for the UN preventing any war - well, you can stick it up yet jumper. https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1113152

You prefer war to peace, like those "national sovereignty" f**wit ideologues who forced the veto onto the UNSC in 1946. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 1:47pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 26th, 2022 at 1:30pm: Well may you have simply addressed the arguments - you did not score a single hit though with all your addressing.  Slippery as an eel... That's not debate; you can't decide the "score" - like the fox in charge of the henhouse; you need to refute the arguments, not merely claim "slippery as an eel"

Refuted over and over - hardly my fault that you choose to never see a single thing that disagrees with your fixed worldview.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 2:50pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 26th, 2022 at 2:25pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 25th, 2022 at 12:23pm: So hiding behind the past is a good excuse to promote the Libertarian fraud on the collective. Note: technological advance  has eliminated scarcity,  so you can let go of the self-interested  Libertarian every man for himself system, and replace it with well-being and security for all.   Wake up.    .... (the highlighted) Obsolete concept; now we have the productive capacity to  attain wellbeing and security for all not 49% or any other figure less than 100%. .... Like I said, history; and your delusional Libertarian  every man for himself ideology is STILL complicit in the current Ukraine war which should have been prevented by the UNSC....except the obsolete concept of national sovereignty means Putin could go in, citing "national security".  Insane, going to war with inestimable costs to life and property - for "national security".  This is just more idiotic psittacism, parrot. pass Quote: When was the last time that 'every man for himself' was the system? Have you not heard the term 'welfare state', parrot?  Here, gedditintaya: https://www.britannica.com/topic/welfare-state Please keep abreast of the times: the Keynesian 'welfare state' (1946 -1970s) was dismantled by foolish supply- side neoliberal economic theorists  like Milton Friedman, from the 80s on.

Complete bollocks. Welfare spending as a percent of GDP has been growing relentlessly and covers more and more areas of life. To say that it was dismantled in the 1970s is just stupid.


Quote:

You prefer war to peace, like those "national sovereignty" f**wit ideologues who forced the veto onto the UNSC in 1946.

Again, stupid nonsense endlessly parroted.

Frank wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 3:12pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 26th, 2022 at 2:50pm: Frank wrote on Dec 26th, 2022 at 2:25pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 25th, 2022 at 12:23pm: So hiding behind the past is a good excuse to promote the Libertarian fraud on the collective. Note: technological advance  has eliminated scarcity,  so you can let go of the self-interested  Libertarian every man for himself system, and replace it with well-being and security for all.   Wake up.    .... (the highlighted) Obsolete concept; now we have the productive capacity to  attain wellbeing and security for all not 49% or any other figure less than 100%. .... Like I said, history; and your delusional Libertarian  every man for himself ideology is STILL complicit in the current Ukraine war which should have been prevented by the UNSC....except the obsolete concept of national sovereignty means Putin could go in, citing "national security".  Insane, going to war with inestimable costs to life and property - for "national security".  This is just more idiotic psittacism, parrot. pass Quote: When was the last time that 'every man for himself' was the system? Have you not heard the term 'welfare state', parrot?  Here, gedditintaya: https://www.britannica.com/topic/welfare-state Please keep abreast of the times: the Keynesian 'welfare state' (1946 -1970s) was dismantled by foolish supply- side neoliberal economic theorists  like Milton Friedman, from the 80s on. Complete bollocks. Welfare spending as a percent of GDP has been growing relentlessly and covers more and more areas of life. To say that it was dismantled in the 1970s is just stupid.

er... the nations' stock of public housing has been steadily reducing since the 80s, owing to erroneous  neoliberal theories re government spending, deficits and debt - which required governments to decrease public spending in order to balance budgets.

Now of course the govt. is faced with a housing crisis which will require increasing the quantum of social housing. 

Ditto for other areas of public spending.


Quote:

Again, stupid nonsense endlessly parroted.

You forgot to say why.... obviously national sovereignty is incompatible with international law which would outlaw war as a means of dispute settlement between nations.

The welfare state is not merely about social housing, parrot.

As for national sovereignty - your 'ideas' on this topic, and UNSC, are even more garbled and self-contradictory than on the welfare state and 'common prosperity.

United NATIONS. See that second word?  InterNATIONAL law? See the root word?? Dispute between NATIONS? 'ello, 'ello, 'ello, whatsis then? Is that another NATION I see before me?


Which NATION/S would enforce the rule against war? By what means? Arms? That would be....er...... more war. By head tilting and tut-tutting Bbwianesquely? That's the UN now. Subjugating everyone to China and their internationalised "common prosperity" hegemony? Bingo! yes, that's your aim and of Xi Who Must Be Obeyed.

Frank wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 4:04pm:

The welfare state is not merely about social housing, parrot. As for national sovereignty - your 'ideas' on this topic, and UNSC, are even more garbled and self-contradictory than on the welfare state and 'common prosperity. United NATIONS. See that second word?  InterNATIONAL law? See the root word?? Dispute between NATIONS? 'ello, 'ello, 'ello, whatsis then? Is that another NATION I see before me? Which NATION/S would enforce the rule against war? By what means? Arms? That would be....er...... more war. By head tilting and tut-tutting Bbwianesquely? That's the UN now. Subjugating everyone to China and their internationalised "common prosperity" hegemony? Bingo! yes, that's your aim and of Xi Who Must Be Obeyed.

These have all been explained to him time and time again.  Liked the simple concept that laws themselves must governed by law and are not just open-ended dependent solely on the vote of a group of people. Citing examples of wrongful laws that have resulted in the deaths of countless millions does not impact on him at all, and it is clear that he will never arrive at the safe conclusion that since governments have always been the greatest killers of their own and of others, it follows that a UN 'government' would be the same.

The reality that controlling war means using war escapes him utterly.... explained to him months ago and still he goes on.

Frank wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 4:04pm:

The welfare state is not merely about social housing, parrot.

That's right; it's about other areas of government spending as well, like education and health, all of which are under-funded in the neoliberal era, eg GPs are increasingly abandoning bulk billing because neoliberal economics means the govt. can't properly fund Medicare;  and TAFE was defunded, meaning the country could rely on trained workers from overseas; and the CES was sidelined in favour of private employment agencies which just churn the unemployed without placing them in employment.   

But we do have a housing crisis, courtesy of neoliberal economics, dummy. 


Quote:

As for national sovereignty - your 'ideas' on this topic, and UNSC, are even more garbled and self-contradictory than on the welfare state and 'common prosperity.

ok...waiting for your elucidation....


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United NATIONS. See that second word?  InterNATIONAL law? See the root word?? Dispute between NATIONS? 'ello, 'ello, 'ello, whatsis then? Is that another NATION I see before me?

Indeed it is, and if all nations are to be free from poverty and international war, all nations will need to submit to rule of international law (just as citizens must submit to national law).


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Which NATION/S would enforce the rule against war?

A UNSC whose members were bound by a majority vote of the UNGA and UNSC, just as the law of a nation is decided by majority vote in the supreme court.


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By what means? Arms?

The UNSC has 99% of the world's military force, which if deployed by a majority UNSC vote, is obviously irresistible. Hence the UNSC could guarantee security for all nations, enabling a general disarmament. 



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That would be....er...... more war.

Wrong, as addressed above, it would be a general disarmament among nations who would only need to maintain police forces for internal security, not militaries for external security.


Quote:

By head tilting and tut-tutting Bbwianesquely? That's the UN now.

It's certainly the UN now...


Quote:

to  Subjugating everyone to China and their internationalised "common prosperity" hegemony? Bingo! yes, that's your aim and of Xi Who Must Be Obeyed.

Nonsense.

The US is hoping to provoke war in China, to prevent China's economy from growing bigger than the US. 

Indeed if I were Xi, I would be pressing to get rid of the veto in the UNSC, because the US is obviously hell-bent on making Taiwan a state of the US, armed to the teeth against the mainland, as part of its China containment policy.

Kissinger has hightlighted the danger for the world....

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 5:41pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 26th, 2022 at 4:04pm: The welfare state is not merely about social housing, parrot. As for national sovereignty - your 'ideas' on this topic, and UNSC, are even more garbled and self-contradictory than on the welfare state and 'common prosperity. United NATIONS. See that second word?  InterNATIONAL law? See the root word?? Dispute between NATIONS? 'ello, 'ello, 'ello, whatsis then? Is that another NATION I see before me? Which NATION/S would enforce the rule against war? By what means? Arms? That would be....er...... more war. By head tilting and tut-tutting Bbwianesquely? That's the UN now. Subjugating everyone to China and their internationalised "common prosperity" hegemony? Bingo! yes, that's your aim and of Xi Who Must Be Obeyed. These have all been explained to him time and time again.

And succinctly answered  again,  in the previous post.

Of course, preference for war - in the name of 'national sovereignty' - will be a hindrance to establishing international law and eradicating war as a means of dispute settlement between nations. 



Quote:

Liked the simple concept that laws themselves must governed by law and are not just open-ended dependent solely on the vote of a group of people. Citing examples of wrongful laws that have resulted in the deaths of countless millions does not impact on him at all, and it is clear that he will never arrive at the safe conclusion that since governments have always been the greatest killers of their own and of others, it follows that a UN 'government' would be the same.

it doesn't follow at all.

What does remain the same is your delusional natural  rights/  "freedom values" ideology which through education can change.

As noted in another thread, to which Frank failed to reply, the idea that natural "rights" are inherent in human nature rather than in created law, is obvious nonsense, because those "rights" have to be defined - in law!. 


Quote:

The reality that controlling war means using war escapes him utterly.... explained to him months ago and still he goes on.

See how your delusional Libertarian "rights" ideology inverts your thinking into madness: war is the continuing reality NOW.

We need to engender peace, not by "controlling war", but by outlawing it in a scenario of general disarmament, with national security guaranteed by the UN security council, as per majority vote of the UNGA and UNSC, in support of the UNUDHR. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 9:50am:

Indeed it is, and if all nations are to be free from poverty and international war, all nations will need to submit to rule of international law (just as citizens must submit to national law). .... A UNSC whose members were bound by a majority vote of the UNGA and UNSC, just as the law of a nation is decided by majority vote in the supreme court. ...... The UNSC has 99% of the world's military force, which if deployed by a majority UNSC vote, is obviously irresistible. Hence the UNSC could guarantee security for all nations, enabling a general disarmament.  .... Wrong, as addressed above, it would be a general disarmament among nations who would only need to maintain police forces for internal security, not militaries for external security. .... The US is hoping to provoke war in China, to prevent China's economy from growing bigger than the US.  Indeed if I were Xi, I would be pressing to get rid of the veto in the UNSC, because the US is obviously hell-bent on making Taiwan a state of the US, armed to the teeth against the mainland, as part of its China containment policy.

Laughable idiocy. You live in a 5 year old's naive fantasy toy world, parrot.



Who is going to finance the militaries of 5 powers of the UNSC? Those 5 countries or the whole world? How will costs be shared? What happens if someone outside of the 5 powers wants to be a soldier or marine or airmen? Excluded?
Who will command them? Who will decide deployment - the 5 or all UN members? What happens if they disagree (as now)? Would all countries, from Iran to Pakistan, North Korea to Venezuela submit?

What happens about countries internally monstering their own people, from China to Iran?

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” - George Orwell, 1984

Well as long as it's only native title to do some things they can already do, there is no problem until someone starts one.

"The decision means Widjabul Wia-bal traditional owners now have the rights to carry out a number of cultural activities on non-freehold land, such as national parks and crown land.

    The right to access, move about and traverse.
    The right to camp and erect temporary shelters but not to permanently camp or occupy.
    The right to hunt and fish for non-commercial purposes.
    The right to access and use natural water resources for non-commercial purposes.
    The right to gather, share and exchange natural resources  for non-commercial purposes.
    The right to conduct and participate in ceremonial, ritual and spiritual activities. 
    The right to maintain and protect places of importance under traditional laws and customs.
    The right to transmit traditional knowledge to members of the native title claim group
    The right to hold meetings."

Now if anyone can tell me which of those they did not already have, I'm all ears..... in a sense this is an insult to those local Aborigines by pulling the wool over their eyes with some false dream that they now own that land.

Again - the only problem with this will be when some decide that they do own it totally, and start a campaign of violence and intimidation to keep others out and abuse their rights to free use of national parks and crown land, or start to block off relevant paths etc on some fake religious grounds, or demand fees for entry when they do not own the land.

Of course, none of this will stop them being lauded as 'the victims' in the idiotic media despite the reality that it will be they doing the attacking and such. You've seen what happened at Mt Warning, swept under the carpet by a lying state government, with people rightfully visiting their national park having their cars vandalised over a period of five years.. amidst a heap of jumping up and down and wailing by the local Aborigines over 'their rights' which are really privileges.

Here's my message to the softcock Perrotet - history will absolve me...... it will certainly hang you .... and all the troubles will be on your hands and those of your Labor mates.

Frank wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 11:00am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 27th, 2022 at 9:50am: Indeed it is, and if all nations are to be free from poverty and international war, all nations will need to submit to rule of international law (just as citizens must submit to national law). .... A UNSC whose members were bound by a majority vote of the UNGA and UNSC, just as the law of a nation is decided by majority vote in the supreme court. ...... The UNSC has 99% of the world's military force, which if deployed by a majority UNSC vote, is obviously irresistible. Hence the UNSC could guarantee security for all nations, enabling a general disarmament.  .... Wrong, as addressed above, it would be a general disarmament among nations who would only need to maintain police forces for internal security, not militaries for external security. .... The US is hoping to provoke war in China, to prevent China's economy from growing bigger than the US.  Indeed if I were Xi, I would be pressing to get rid of the veto in the UNSC, because the US is obviously hell-bent on making Taiwan a state of the US, armed to the teeth against the mainland, as part of its China containment policy. Laughable idiocy. You live in a 5 year old's naive fantasy toy world, parrot. Who is going to finance the militaries of 5 powers of the UNSC? Those 5 countries or the whole world? How will costs be shared? What happens if someone outside of the 5 powers wants to be a soldier or marine or airmen? Excluded? Who will command them? Who will decide deployment - the 5 or all UN members? What happens if they disagree (as now)? Would all countries, from Iran to Pakistan, North Korea to Venezuela submit? What happens about countries internally monstering their own people, from China to Iran?

All laid out for him months ago - look at his answer below this one of yours.  He simply will not engage with any realities, nor will he stick to the subject but just races off on his pet dream.

Love that arbitrary phrase for anyone with a differing view - 'an ideologue with a preference for war' - total lunacy.

Now try the issue of this purported handover of OUR lands to a small group of alleged local Indigenous....  keep your UN fantasies for the appropriate strand and stop interfering with the free flow of discussion in matters relating to our Indigenous ....

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 11:20am:

Well as long as it's only native title to do some things they can already do, there is no problem until someone starts one. "The decision means Widjabul Wia-bal traditional owners now have the rights to carry out a number of cultural activities on non-freehold land, such as national parks and crown land.     The right to access, move about and traverse.     The right to camp and erect temporary shelters but not to permanently camp or occupy.     The right to hunt and fish for non-commercial purposes.     The right to access and use natural water resources for non-commercial purposes.     The right to gather, share and exchange natural resources  for non-commercial purposes.     The right to conduct and participate in ceremonial, ritual and spiritual activities.      The right to maintain and protect places of importance under traditional laws and customs.     The right to transmit traditional knowledge to members of the native title claim group     The right to hold meetings." Now if anyone can tell me which of those they did not already have, I'm all ears..... in a sense this is an insult to those local Aborigines by pulling the wool over their eyes with some false dream that they now own that land. Again - the only problem with this will be when some decide that they do own it totally, and start a campaign of violence and intimidation to keep others out and abuse their rights to free use of national parks and crown land, or start to block off relevant paths etc on some fake religious grounds, or demand fees for entry when they do not own the land. Of course, none of this will stop them being lauded as 'the victims' in the idiotic media despite the reality that it will be they doing the attacking and such. You've seen what happened at Mt Warning, swept under the carpet by a lying state government, with people rightfully visiting their national park having their cars vandalised over a period of five years.. amidst a heap of jumping up and down and wailing by the local Aborigines over 'their rights' which are really privileges. Here's my message to the softcock Perrotet - history will absolve me...... it will certainly hang you .... and all the troubles will be on your hands and those of your Labor mates.

Frank wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 11:00am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 27th, 2022 at 9:50am: Indeed it is, and if all nations are to be free from poverty and international war, all nations will need to submit to rule of international law (just as citizens must submit to national law). .... A UNSC whose members were bound by a majority vote of the UNGA and UNSC, just as the law of a nation is decided by majority vote in the supreme court. ...... The UNSC has 99% of the world's military force, which if deployed by a majority UNSC vote, is obviously irresistible. Hence the UNSC could guarantee security for all nations, enabling a general disarmament.  .... Wrong, as addressed above, it would be a general disarmament among nations who would only need to maintain police forces for internal security, not militaries for external security. .... The US is hoping to provoke war in China, to prevent China's economy from growing bigger than the US.  Indeed if I were Xi, I would be pressing to get rid of the veto in the UNSC, because the US is obviously hell-bent on making Taiwan a state of the US, armed to the teeth against the mainland, as part of its China containment policy. Laughable idiocy. You live in a 5 year old's naive fantasy toy world, parrot.

The usual...let's read on.


Quote:

Who is going to finance the militaries of 5 powers of the UNSC? Those 5 countries or the whole world? How will costs be shared?

The five countries plus Japan and Germany rounding out the 7 most powerful/richest economies in the world - plus Russia's nuclear arsenal (indeed the UNSC should be enlarged with membership of these two). 



Quote:

What happens if someone outside of the 5 powers wants to be a soldier or marine or airmen? Excluded?

Occupations come and go all the time.

How about a career in the national civilian police force instead?


Quote:

Who will command them?

Similar to any coalition command.


Quote:

Who will decide deployment - the 5 or all UN members?

The 5 (or better, seven as noted above), carrying out the voted policy (the "voice"!) of the UNGA,  and the UNSC members (without veto).  


Quote:

What happens if they disagree (as now)? Would all countries, from Iran to Pakistan, North Korea to Venezuela submit?

All  nations are presently signed up to the UN Charter,  the problem is the UNSC can't guarantee security for any one nation. If the UNSC could guarantee external security, why would you not submit to international law?


Quote:

What happens about countries internally monstering their own people, from China to Iran?

The general disarmament I referred to would deprive nations of the military means to "monster their own people", like Myanmar.

Where other countries' governments depart from the principles of the UNUDHR, the civilian police force would be quickly overwhelmed by a UN military contingent.

Eg in Afghanistan and Iran, where in fact half the population (ie female) IS calling for UN intervention into their rogue governments. 

Note: re-education camps in Xinjiang camps do NOT violate the UNUDHR, that's just opportunistic Western ideology/propaganda; the US is only too willing to bomb Muslims when it sees fit, China prefers reeducation of its own fundamentalist separatist terrorists.

Conclusion: it's time...in the age of MAD -  to outlaw war as a means of dispute settlement between nations.

John Smith wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2022 at 4:34pm:

Gnads wrote on Dec 23rd, 2022 at 8:55am: John Smith wrote on Dec 22nd, 2022 at 3:18pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 22nd, 2022 at 9:50am: Neither do I. You've had too much salt air ... it's crystalising between your ears. Sure you are. You  and others are here crying because you can't clink Mt warning and others can ... boo hoo Only part of those "others" can ... not all of them. You've forgotton all about secret mens & secret womens business haven't you? Don't you think part of those others are being mysogynistic/partriarchal oppressors? so you agree now that you were crying about it :D

No. FW

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 12:11pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 27th, 2022 at 11:00am: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 27th, 2022 at 9:50am: Indeed it is, and if all nations are to be free from poverty and international war, all nations will need to submit to rule of international law (just as citizens must submit to national law). .... A UNSC whose members were bound by a majority vote of the UNGA and UNSC, just as the law of a nation is decided by majority vote in the supreme court. ...... The UNSC has 99% of the world's military force, which if deployed by a majority UNSC vote, is obviously irresistible. Hence the UNSC could guarantee security for all nations, enabling a general disarmament.  .... Wrong, as addressed above, it would be a general disarmament among nations who would only need to maintain police forces for internal security, not militaries for external security. .... The US is hoping to provoke war in China, to prevent China's economy from growing bigger than the US.  Indeed if I were Xi, I would be pressing to get rid of the veto in the UNSC, because the US is obviously hell-bent on making Taiwan a state of the US, armed to the teeth against the mainland, as part of its China containment policy. Laughable idiocy. You live in a 5 year old's naive fantasy toy world, parrot. The usual...let's read on. Quote: Who is going to finance the militaries of 5 powers of the UNSC? Those 5 countries or the whole world? How will costs be shared? The five countries plus Japan and Germany rounding out the 7 most powerful/richest economies in the world - plus Russia's nuclear arsenal (indeed the UNSC should be enlarged with membership of these two).  [quote] What happens if someone outside of the 5 powers wants to be a soldier or marine or airmen? Excluded?

Occupations come and go all the time.

How about a career in the national civilian police force instead?


Quote:

Who will command them?

Similar to any coalition command.


Quote:

Who will decide deployment - the 5 or all UN members?

The 5 (or better, seven as noted above), carrying out the voted policy (the "voice"!) of the UNGA,  and the UNSC members (without veto).  


Quote:

What happens if they disagree (as now)? Would all countries, from Iran to Pakistan, North Korea to Venezuela submit?

All  nations are presently signed up to the UN Charter,  the problem is the UNSC can't guarantee security for any one nation. If the UNSC could guarantee external security, why would you not submit to international law?


Quote:

What happens about countries internally monstering their own people, from China to Iran?

The general disarmament I referred to would deprive nations of the military means to "monster their own people", like Myanmar.

Where other countries' governments depart from the principles of the UNUDHR, the civilian police force would be quickly overwhelmed by a UN military contingent.

Eg in Afghanistan and Iran, where in fact half the population (ie female) IS calling for UN intervention into their rogue governments. 

Note: re-education camps in Xinjiang camps do NOT violate the UNUDHR, that's just opportunistic Western ideology/propaganda; the US is only too willing to bomb Muslims when it sees fit, China prefers reeducation of its own fundamentalist separatist terrorists.

Conclusion: it's time...in the age of MAD -  to outlaw war as a means of dispute settlement between nations.

[/quote]
"Laughable, pre-adolescent jumbled fantasy bollocks" is correct.

Gnads wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 3:03pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 23rd, 2022 at 4:34pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 23rd, 2022 at 8:55am: John Smith wrote on Dec 22nd, 2022 at 3:18pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 22nd, 2022 at 9:50am: Neither do I. You've had too much salt air ... it's crystalising between your ears. Sure you are. You  and others are here crying because you can't clink Mt warning and others can ... boo hoo Only part of those "others" can ... not all of them. You've forgotton all about secret mens & secret womens business haven't you? Don't you think part of those others are being mysogynistic/partriarchal oppressors? so you agree now that you were crying about it :D No. FW

Live in denial if that helps you to sleep

Well - the way I see it - is if we are having Labor and Liberal in lockstep designer social engineering serious problems for future generations and murdering our country around us and trying to force us into 'equality' with the lowest third worlder ... We, the People should just maybe talk about it a bit first....... instead of being without a Voice!!!

Now then - that dopey Papadopoulos sheila down Melbadishu way... you don't want to do citizenship ceremonies on Australia Day - pack your bags  and piss off back to Greece where you can be a second class citizen....... that dopey Paki sheila in Parliament - you don't love this joint pack your bags and piss off back to Pakistan where you can be properly oppressed and have no rights.... we don't have time for your utter stupidity.....  anyone else want to join in the Hate Australia parade?

Nah then - about those immigration policies .................. and what we really want and need here .... let the AUSTRALIAN people decide before it's too late and they end up like the British - out-numbered in their own country...

Truly never in the field of human conflict has so much been owed by so many to so few - for bringing on the conflict.

Drain the Swamps - take back the asylum..... take out the dead wood... Voice to The People NOW!!

---

"Eg in Afghanistan and Iran, where in fact half the population (ie female) IS calling for UN intervention into their rogue governments.  "

Why would anyone imagine the UN can and will intervene in Afghanistan and Iran?  It has neither the guts/balls nor the power to do so, same as every half-cocked 'intervention' except for Korea, where the locals have been slaughtered relentlessly until someone intervened... often a sovereign power such as France and Britain.

"President Emmanuel Macron of France will head to Mali next week to visit the French military stationed there as part of France's Operation Barkhane, which currently involves 3,500 troops across Chad, Mauritania, Niger, Mali and Burkina Faso. "

https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/research/key-issues-parliament-2015/defence-and-security/uk-foreign-intervention/

Read that last - it should give you an indication of where any such ideas entertained for the UN will lead..... apart from the reality that it is highly unlikely that the UN would even vote to intervene .... they have not the balls..... and are THE house divided against itself ... who is going to intervene in Afghanistan and Iran?

The UN might slap those regimes around a bit with a damp and soggy lettuce leaf... while people are dying....

Any chance you could stick to the subject matter of the theft of our national parks, sovereign rights of individuals to enjoy those, and the very real problems the current approach will cause for future generations?

One subject at a time is enough to seek resolution for..... the world can wait until our internal borders are secure again ....... then maybe we can spare some help for them once we lift the moratorium on further immigration from the third world.

BTW - I signed the petitions to stop executions in Iran of people protesting and especially an Iranian actress, the arrests of innocents with a view different from the 'government', the oppression of women in Afghanistan...

As an Equalist, I feel obliged to do so... just don't insult be by calling me a  ... (gags) .... feminist ...... or an (blooks) ...Islamophile ... I am a man for all people equally..... so go bite your arses.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 8:19pm:

BTW - I signed the petitions to stop executions in Iran of people protesting and especially an Iranian actress, the arrests of innocents with a view different from the 'government', the oppression of women in Afghanistan...

That'll teach them....

Frank wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 8:47pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 27th, 2022 at 8:19pm: BTW - I signed the petitions to stop executions in Iran of people protesting and especially an Iranian actress, the arrests of innocents with a view different from the 'government', the oppression of women in Afghanistan... That'll teach them....

Yes - it's so important to make a statement... they'll listen... but you know what?  Every dope-raddled asshole expects me to actually influence the governments of Iran and Afghanistan, and stop rape of women in India and throwing acid in their faces in Pakistan, and 'honour' killings, and somehow be responsible for the sex slavery of hill girls in Thailand, and stop modern day slavery etc ... but they never once offer to do that themselves.....

Catch my drift?

My challenge was to the assholes - do YOU even bother - or are you just all talk?

Lock in b), Eddie - all talk....

Now - back to the subject:-

"The decision means Widjabul Wia-bal traditional owners now have the rights to carry out a number of cultural activities on non-freehold land, such as national parks and crown land.

    The right to access, move about and traverse.
    The right to camp and erect temporary shelters but not to permanently camp or occupy.
    The right to hunt and fish for non-commercial purposes.
    The right to access and use natural water resources for non-commercial purposes.
    The right to gather, share and exchange natural resources  for non-commercial purposes.
    The right to conduct and participate in ceremonial, ritual and spiritual activities. 
    The right to maintain and protect places of importance under traditional laws and customs.
    The right to transmit traditional knowledge to members of the native title claim group
    The right to hold meetings."

It doesn't mean they own it - and it doesn't mean they can stop anyone else from using it.

Frank wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 3:23pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 27th, 2022 at 12:11pm: Frank wrote on Dec 27th, 2022 at 11:00am: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 27th, 2022 at 9:50am: Indeed it is, and if all nations are to be free from poverty and international war, all nations will need to submit to rule of international law (just as citizens must submit to national law). .... A UNSC whose members were bound by a majority vote of the UNGA and UNSC, just as the law of a nation is decided by majority vote in the supreme court. ...... The UNSC has 99% of the world's military force, which if deployed by a majority UNSC vote, is obviously irresistible. Hence the UNSC could guarantee security for all nations, enabling a general disarmament.  .... Wrong, as addressed above, it would be a general disarmament among nations who would only need to maintain police forces for internal security, not militaries for external security. .... The US is hoping to provoke war in China, to prevent China's economy from growing bigger than the US.  Indeed if I were Xi, I would be pressing to get rid of the veto in the UNSC, because the US is obviously hell-bent on making Taiwan a state of the US, armed to the teeth against the mainland, as part of its China containment policy. Laughable idiocy. You live in a 5 year old's naive fantasy toy world, parrot. The usual...let's read on. Quote: Who is going to finance the militaries of 5 powers of the UNSC? Those 5 countries or the whole world? How will costs be shared? The five countries plus Japan and Germany rounding out the 7 most powerful/richest economies in the world - plus Russia's nuclear arsenal (indeed the UNSC should be enlarged with membership of these two).  [quote] What happens if someone outside of the 5 powers wants to be a soldier or marine or airmen? Excluded? Occupations come and go all the time. How about a career in the national civilian police force instead? [quote]Who will command them?

Similar to any coalition command.


Quote:

Who will decide deployment - the 5 or all UN members?

The 5 (or better, seven as noted above), carrying out the voted policy (the "voice"!) of the UNGA,  and the UNSC members (without veto).  


Quote:

What happens if they disagree (as now)? Would all countries, from Iran to Pakistan, North Korea to Venezuela submit?

All  nations are presently signed up to the UN Charter,  the problem is the UNSC can't guarantee security for any one nation. If the UNSC could guarantee external security, why would you not submit to international law?


Quote:

What happens about countries internally monstering their own people, from China to Iran?

The general disarmament I referred to would deprive nations of the military means to "monster their own people", like Myanmar.

Where other countries' governments depart from the principles of the UNUDHR, the civilian police force would be quickly overwhelmed by a UN military contingent.

Eg in Afghanistan and Iran, where in fact half the population (ie female) IS calling for UN intervention into their rogue governments. 

Note: re-education camps in Xinjiang camps do NOT violate the UNUDHR, that's just opportunistic Western ideology/propaganda; the US is only too willing to bomb Muslims when it sees fit, China prefers reeducation of its own fundamentalist separatist terrorists.

Conclusion: it's time...in the age of MAD -  to outlaw war as a means of dispute settlement between nations.

[/quote]
"Laughable, pre-adolescent jumbled fantasy bollocks" is correct.[/quote]

See.. you bailed out again, your blind 'freedom" ideology rendering you unable to cope with debate.

You were saying "some" natural rights exist, I asked you to identify them...

Boris wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 12:30pm:

Do children have a right not to go into the pot?

It's the ultimate insanity/blindness if they do go into the pot.

But "rights" don't have anything to do with it.

Speaking of negative "rights",  everyone has a right not to live in poverty (UNUDHR article 23).

But only law can make it happen.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 3:08pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 26th, 2022 at 1:47pm: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 26th, 2022 at 1:30pm: Well may you have simply addressed the arguments - you did not score a single hit though with all your addressing.  Slippery as an eel... That's not debate; you can't decide the "score" - like the fox in charge of the henhouse; you need to refute the arguments, not merely claim "slippery as an eel"  Refuted over and over - hardly my fault that you choose to never see a single thing that disagrees with your fixed worldview.

I always see and refute every single one of your delusional Libertarian concepts and desires; whereas you bailed out of the debate. 

Boris wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 11:09am:

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” - George Orwell, 1984

And now the need for assistance with housing and food costs is higher in Oz than since the Great Depression.

Charity will fix it....

Some "Party"

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 28^th, 2022 at 11:54am:

See.. you bailed out again, your blind 'freedom" ideology rendering you unable to cope with debate. You were saying "some" natural rights exist, I asked you to identify them...

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1664785668/465#465

Frank wrote on Dec 26^th, 2022 at 3:12pm:

Complete bollocks. Welfare spending as a percent of GDP has been growing relentlessly and covers more and more areas of life. To say that it was dismantled in the 1970s is just stupid.

Ah yes, I didn't fully address that point in your #104:

https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/australias-welfare/welfare-expenditure

As a proportion of overall economic activity,government welfare spending had been reducing in the years leading up to 2019–20, declining from 9.5% of gro ss domestic product (GDP) in 2015–16 to 8.8% in 2018–19. In 2019–20, it grew to 9.9% of GDP. The only time it has been higher in the past 2 decades was after the Global Financial Crisis (GFC), when it reached 10% (in 2008–09) (Figure 2).

And of course un/underemployment has been consistently higher since the demise of the Keynesian welfare state in the 70s. ...in fact Menzies almost lost office in 1960 because unemployment ticked up to....gasp ...2%!, so govt. expenditure on the dole has risen in the now dominant Thatcherite neoliberal era. 


Quote:

Again, stupid nonsense endlessly parroted.

Again, no refutation of the necessity to eradicate  war as a means of dispute settlement  between nations, only a blind acceptance of never-ending war as the way to secure peace....

Can't see the insanity?  Of course not....

John Smith wrote on Dec 27^th, 2022 at 5:07pm:

Gnads wrote on Dec 27th, 2022 at 3:03pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 23rd, 2022 at 4:34pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 23rd, 2022 at 8:55am: John Smith wrote on Dec 22nd, 2022 at 3:18pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 22nd, 2022 at 9:50am: Neither do I. You've had too much salt air ... it's crystalising between your ears. Sure you are. You  and others are here crying because you can't clink Mt warning and others can ... boo hoo Only part of those "others" can ... not all of them. You've forgotton all about secret mens & secret womens business haven't you? Don't you think part of those others are being mysogynistic/partriarchal oppressors? so you agree now that you were crying about it :D No. FW Live in denial if that helps you to sleep

I live in a small but modest house ... I sleep fine.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 28^th, 2022 at 12:15pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 26th, 2022 at 3:08pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 26th, 2022 at 1:47pm: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 26th, 2022 at 1:30pm: Well may you have simply addressed the arguments - you did not score a single hit though with all your addressing.  Slippery as an eel... That's not debate; you can't decide the "score" - like the fox in charge of the henhouse; you need to refute the arguments, not merely claim "slippery as an eel"  Refuted over and over - hardly my fault that you choose to never see a single thing that disagrees with your fixed worldview. I always see and refute every single one of your delusional Libertarian concepts and desires; whereas you bailed out of the debate.

Delusion piled on delusion - now you reckon that the UN will never go to war to stop or prevent war - it's been explained to you how utterly impractical your idea is... you keep your drone status and I'll keep my inalienable right to be myself and not expect to be violated for it.

How you can throw in some urge to war and all this 'your ideology' nonsense is beyond me - you clearly are simply incapable of seeing anything you don't want to - Frank has you nailed, except that you're a simple troll in reality trying to stir people up just like ... Lefty.... out of the same stable, are you?  Now don't you forget we're all Fascists here....  ::)  ::)  ::)

Now - on the subject of those native title rights - nowhere does it say they OWN the property... pretty simple - but you watch that space...

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 28^th, 2022 at 1:25pm:

Delusion piled on delusion - now you reckon that the UN will never go to war to stop or prevent war

No, rather that no nation - in a scenario of general disarmament -  would be capable, much less prepared to fight a UNSC deploying forces to implement a decision of the UNGA and UNSC.



Quote:

- it's been explained to you how utterly impractical your idea is... you keep your drone status and I'll keep my inalienable right to be myself and not expect to be violated for it.

Your 'inalienable right'  to decide right and wrong in your own interests...I get it.


Quote:

How you can throw in some urge to war and all this 'your ideology' nonsense is beyond me -

More back to front and inverted thinking on your part (all at the same time); my "urge" is for the eradication of war as a legal means of dispute settlement between nations.

You hold the insane idea that peace is achieved by war, yet here we are again...at war in Ukraine, with the economy heading south.   


Quote:

you clearly are simply incapable of seeing anything you don't want to - Frank has you nailed, except that you're a simple troll in reality trying to stir people up just like ... Lefty.... out of the same stable, are you?  Now don't you forget we're all Fascists here....  ::)  ::)  ::)

I'm urging people to think for themselves, to understand war and poverty are obsolete. There is no real scarcity now, only politically determined scarcity. 


Quote:

Now - on the subject of those native title rights - nowhere does it say they OWN the property... pretty simple - but you watch that space...

Now...you know my thoughts on "land rights" ...we all need decent affordable housing, and equal access to the commons, not "land rights".

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 28^th, 2022 at 2:50pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 28th, 2022 at 1:25pm: Delusion piled on delusion - now you reckon that the UN will never go to war to stop or prevent war No, rather that no nation - in a scenario of general disarmament -  would be capable, much less prepared to fight a UNSC deploying forces to implement a decision of the UNGA and UNSC. Quote: - it's been explained to you how utterly impractical your idea is... you keep your drone status and I'll keep my inalienable right to be myself and not expect to be violated for it. Your 'inalienable right'  to decide right and wrong in your own interests...I get it. [quote]How you can throw in some urge to war and all this 'your ideology' nonsense is beyond me -

More back to front and inverted thinking on your part (all at the same time); my "urge" is for the eradication of war as a legal means of dispute settlement between nations.

You hold the insane idea that peace is achieved by war, yet here we are again...at war in Ukraine, with the economy heading south.   


Quote:

you clearly are simply incapable of seeing anything you don't want to - Frank has you nailed, except that you're a simple troll in reality trying to stir people up just like ... Lefty.... out of the same stable, are you?  Now don't you forget we're all Fascists here....  ::)  ::)  ::)

I'm urging people to think for themselves, to understand war and poverty are obsolete. There is no real scarcity now, only politically determined scarcity. 


Quote:

Now - on the subject of those native title rights - nowhere does it say they OWN the property... pretty simple - but you watch that space...

Now...you know my thoughts on "land rights" ...we all need decent affordable housing, and equal access to the commons, not "land rights". [/quote]

So only the ROGUE states will be able to wage war unhindered on the rest?

I am a benevolent dictator type - not just running on the over-rich mixture of self-interest...

Land Rights For All!   Once that was vilified as theft, appropriation, invasion and everything else colonial - now it is de rigeur for one group and by legal and social osmosis - must therefore apply equally to all other groups!

Free Land claims For All NOW!!

The Widjabul Wia-bal people, that's fkkn hilarious. The Drunk As Skunk people 1 would be more apt.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 28^th, 2022 at 12:05pm:

Boris wrote on Dec 26th, 2022 at 12:30pm: Do children have a right not to go into the pot? It's the ultimate insanity/blindness if they do go into the pot. But "rights" don't have anything to do with it. Speaking of negative "rights",  everyone has a right not to live in poverty (UNUDHR article 23). But only law can make it happen.

Everyone has the right to live safely in a war zone, too - it just doesn't happen a lot.

"The decision means Widjabul Wia-bal traditional owners now have the rights to carry out a number of cultural activities on non-freehold land, such as national parks and crown land.

    The right to access, move about and traverse.
    The right to camp and erect temporary shelters but not to permanently camp or occupy.
    The right to hunt and fish for non-commercial purposes.
    The right to access and use natural water resources for non-commercial purposes.
    The right to gather, share and exchange natural resources  for non-commercial purposes.
    The right to conduct and participate in ceremonial, ritual and spiritual activities. 
    The right to maintain and protect places of importance under traditional laws and customs.
    The right to transmit traditional knowledge to members of the native title claim group
    The right to hold meetings."

It doesn't mean they own it - and it doesn't mean they can stop anyone else from using it.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 28^th, 2022 at 6:42pm:

"The decision means Widjabul Wia-bal traditional owners now have the rights to carry out a number of cultural activities on non-freehold land, such as national parks and crown land.     The right to access, move about and traverse.     The right to camp and erect temporary shelters but not to permanently camp or occupy.     The right to hunt and fish for non-commercial purposes.     The right to access and use natural water resources for non-commercial purposes.     The right to gather, share and exchange natural resources  for non-commercial purposes.     The right to conduct and participate in ceremonial, ritual and spiritual activities.      The right to maintain and protect places of importance under traditional laws and customs.     The right to transmit traditional knowledge to members of the native title claim group     The right to hold meetings." It doesn't mean they own it - and it doesn't mean they can stop anyone else from using it.

They can fkk off.

Johnnie wrote on Dec 28^th, 2022 at 7:36pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 28th, 2022 at 6:42pm: "The decision means Widjabul Wia-bal traditional owners now have the rights to carry out a number of cultural activities on non-freehold land, such as national parks and crown land.     The right to access, move about and traverse.     The right to camp and erect temporary shelters but not to permanently camp or occupy.     The right to hunt and fish for non-commercial purposes.     The right to access and use natural water resources for non-commercial purposes.     The right to gather, share and exchange natural resources  for non-commercial purposes.     The right to conduct and participate in ceremonial, ritual and spiritual activities.      The right to maintain and protect places of importance under traditional laws and customs.     The right to transmit traditional knowledge to members of the native title claim group     The right to hold meetings." It doesn't mean they own it - and it doesn't mean they can stop anyone else from using it. They can fkk off.

I can't say I am unsympathetic towards that sntiment.

People who do FARKALL to help/change themselves but constantly shout about how everyone else should do something about them do give me the pip. Learned helplessness - stick it up yer loincloth.
Third world 'diverse' people, Aborigines, blue haired activist gluing themselves to stuff, and all the rest of the special pleading/bleating 'look at moi' types - here's two words for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfTg0SQVvwE

Frank wrote on Dec 28^th, 2022 at 8:17pm:

Johnnie wrote on Dec 28th, 2022 at 7:36pm: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 28th, 2022 at 6:42pm: "The decision means Widjabul Wia-bal traditional owners now have the rights to carry out a number of cultural activities on non-freehold land, such as national parks and crown land.     The right to access, move about and traverse.     The right to camp and erect temporary shelters but not to permanently camp or occupy.     The right to hunt and fish for non-commercial purposes.     The right to access and use natural water resources for non-commercial purposes.     The right to gather, share and exchange natural resources  for non-commercial purposes.     The right to conduct and participate in ceremonial, ritual and spiritual activities.      The right to maintain and protect places of importance under traditional laws and customs.     The right to transmit traditional knowledge to members of the native title claim group     The right to hold meetings." It doesn't mean they own it - and it doesn't mean they can stop anyone else from using it. They can fkk off. I can't say I am unsympathetic towards that sntiment. People who do FARKALL to help/change themselves but constantly shout about how everyone else should do something about them do give me the pip. Learned helplessness - stick it up yer loincloth. Third world 'diverse' people, Aborigines, blue haired activist gluing themselves to stuff, and all the rest of the special pleading/bleating 'look at moi' types - here's two words for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfTg0SQVvwE

The Boongs wouldn't know what day of the week it was, the  Widjabul Wia-bal people, that cracks me up, fkkn hilarious.

what is interesting about native title is that we are told the indigenous way of dealing with the land was that you couldnt own the land, the land owned you.

it was seen as a backward capitalist step for people to build a fort or a walled community and keep others out.

and now the leftie do-gooders, the bwians , seem to be celebrating the fact they have converted aboriginal ideas of non ownership and sharing   to western capitalist ideas of walls and fences and boundaries and this is MINE.

what a strange hypocrite bwian is  :'( :'( :'(

From an Indigenous perspective, land is not something that is earned by a few, it belongs to everybody or, more accurately, we belong to it. Aunty Munya explains, “Many Indigenous peoples the world over generally do not believe that anyone or anything can be 'owned', especially the land.”


aunty munya thinks we are all welcome on her turf
why does bwian not agree
time to crack out the bushwalking gear and head up mt warning
aunty invited me

The Boongs can fkk off, they have proven their worth which is fkk all, they are not known as working people, they are fkkn bludgers and can go and get fkkd, just fkk off.

aquascoot wrote on Dec 28^th, 2022 at 8:27pm:

what is interesting about native title is that we are told the indigenous way of dealing with the land was that you couldnt own the land, the land owned you. it was seen as a backward capitalist step for people to build a fort or a walled community and keep others out. and now the leftie do-gooders, the bwians , seem to be celebrating the fact they have converted aboriginal ideas of non ownership and sharing   to western capitalist ideas of walls and fences and boundaries and this is MINE. what a strange hypocrite bwian is  :'( :'( :'(

This is a significant point. A farmer feels exactly the same way. A stalwart of a local town, community, feels exactly the same way.

Europeans have as much attachment to where they toil, work, bring up children, cultivate land and raise livestock as Aborigines, even more because they have material evidence to point to to prove their attachment.

Some Aborigines have a deep spirit link to a particular locale the same way. A farmer whose great grandfather cleared the land feels the same attachment. THAT is a recognised link while Rainbow Serpent mythology isn't WHEN IT IS USED FOR MATERIAL GAIN from the riches he farmer has created.

The Widjabul Wia-bal people, surely this is a joke, the Wanker Canibal people.

So superior and wonderful Culture


https://twitter.com/StudLeeMD/status/1604713698828095491

aquascoot wrote on Dec 28^th, 2022 at 8:27pm:

what is interesting about native title is that we are told the indigenous way of dealing with the land was that you couldnt own the land, the land owned you. it was seen as a backward capitalist step for people to build a fort or a walled community and keep others out. and now the leftie do-gooders, the bwians , seem to be celebrating the fact they have converted aboriginal ideas of non ownership and sharing   to western capitalist ideas of walls and fences and boundaries and this is MINE. what a strange hypocrite bwian is  :'( :'( :'(

Yes he certainly is .... & that's exactly what they are doing.

aquascoot wrote on Dec 28^th, 2022 at 8:27pm:

and now the leftie do-gooders, the bwians , seem to be celebrating the fact they have converted aboriginal ideas of non ownership and sharing   to western capitalist ideas of walls and fences and boundaries and this is MINE.

Gee, is anyone else surprised that horse boy is crying because the aborigines use a system we forced on them to their advantage?  :D :D :D

Boris wrote on Dec 29^th, 2022 at 1:06pm:

So superior and wonderful Culture https://twitter.com/StudLeeMD/status/1604713698828095491

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png

Yeah, sure, Matty, what ever...  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 28^th, 2022 at 4:15pm:

So only the ROGUE states will be able to wage war unhindered on the rest?

1.  None of the nations (7 or 9 largest economies) in a reformed UNSC, defending international policy determined by voting in the combined UNGA and UNSC, will be a "rogue nation", by definition.

And the rest, with security guaranteed by the UNSC in a scenario of general  military disarmament, will not be subject to external threat, nor be able to threaten others. 

[Internal conflicts need to be sorted out by internal police forces, though a population ought to be able to appeal to the UNSC.   eg how to rid the nation of fools who think women shouldn't be educated, or must wear tents so their bodies can't be seen...re-education, or liquidation?

Healthy debate in the UNGA is necessary to deal with these 'cultural' abnormalities]. 


Quote:

I am a benevolent dictator type - not just running on the over-rich mixture of self-interest...

Good to hear it....ready to vote for the UNSC defending the UNUDHR, as the ultimate "benevolent dictator"?

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 29^th, 2022 at 3:15pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 28th, 2022 at 4:15pm: So only the ROGUE states will be able to wage war unhindered on the rest? 1.  None of the nations (7 or 9 largest economies) in a reformed UNSC, defending international policy determined by voting in the combined UNGA and UNSC, will be a "rogue nation", by definition.  How exactly do you imagine this 'reformed UNSC" will enforce this regime on all nations?  Again - you know the answer... And the rest, with security guaranteed by the UNSC in a scenario of general  military disarmament, will not be subject to external threat, nor be able to threaten others.  [Internal conflicts need to be sorted out by internal police forces, though a population ought to be able to appeal to the UNSC.   eg how to rid the nation of fools who think women shouldn't be educated, or must wear tents so their bodies can't be seen...re-education, or liquidation?  Indeed .... how? Healthy debate in the UNGA is necessary to deal with these 'cultural' abnormalities].  Quote: I am a benevolent dictator type - not just running on the over-rich mixture of self-interest... Good to hear it....ready to vote for the UNSC defending the UNUDHR, as the ultimate "benevolent dictator"?

Millions of pounds in gold pass through my hands - yet I am a poor man - for I am a river to my people.... all I ask is a modest stipend and living costs.... I am opposed to politicians being paid so much they have no contact with reality....  average of somewhere around $300k in the hand, plus ALL found amounting to probably another $2.7m = $3m all told - PLUS the opportunity to put their actual taxed earnings into tax havens and eventually pay no tax at all while prospering mightily from their own rule-making.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 29^th, 2022 at 7:39pm:

How exactly do you imagine this 'reformed UNSC" will enforce this regime on all nations?  Again - you know the answer...

A 'regime' of no war between nations?

1. a disarmed nation can't attack another militarily disarmed nation ..unlike in a conflict between individuals who can use their fists...

2. nations enjoying sustainable development, guaranteed by the reformed UNSC, have no need, nor "right" to attack another nation.


Quote:

Indeed .... how?

By shaming the offending government on the international stage, and in the UNGA etc.

The UNGA in aggregate has a remarkable sense of fairness eg, all nations except two say the US should lift its embargo on Cuba. 

"Civilization is a race between education and catastrophe". HG Wells.


Quote:

Millions of pounds in gold pass through my hands - yet I am a poor man - etc etc

Irrelevant; and by all accounts you will retire very nicely...

Jesus - lad - how do you propose to go about disarming them all?  Wage war on them?  HELLO!!

Anyway - nice to see that, on the rules laid down in this grant to the Cheers -it clearly states they do NOT own the land.... not a freehold grant as Perrotet the Half-Witted was quietly talking about a few weeks ago... just watch this space for more as time goes by and people get used to it..... and there are some Abos trying to keep people off 'their' land - which it is not.

Once again for the slow-witted - it is the right to carry out traditional practices there on NON-FREEHOLD LAND - land not owned by ANYONE except the nation via national parks and crown land, so there is no right to claim it is Aboriginal land.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 30^th, 2022 at 12:25pm:

Jesus - lad - how do you propose to go about disarming them all?  Wage war on them?  HELLO!!

No, I submit if the world's richest/most advanced nations agree to relinquish the veto in a reformed UNSC, the world's nations will breathe a sigh of relief, unburdened at last from the need to maintain expensive standing militaries.

Note: in 1946, the delegates of the smaller countries present at the founding of the UN begged the conference  to resist granting the veto to the UNSC members, US and USSR to be specific. 

But that was refused,...and here we are... still at war,  more or less continuously since the creation of the UNSC.


Quote:

Anyway - nice to see that, on the rules laid down in this grant to the Cheers -it clearly states they do NOT own the land.... not a freehold grant as Perrotet the Half-Witted was quietly talking about a few weeks ago... just watch this space for more as time goes by and people get used to it..... and there are some Abos trying to keep people off 'their' land - which it is not.

Yes... "land rights" are a confused concept, which even clever people like Megan Davis promote. 


Quote:

Once again for the slow-witted - it is the right to carry out traditional practices there on NON-FREEHOLD LAND - land not owned by ANYONE except the nation via national parks and crown land, so there is no right to claim it is Aboriginal land.

Well... Davis is not "slow-witted", but there you have it.

Never happen .......................

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 30^th, 2022 at 5:14pm:

Never happen .......................

Ya' never know - even Malcolm Turnbull has changed his mind on the voice, so I heard today.

Malcolm was concerned that the voice in the constitution could divide Oz, and indeed the Uluru statement contained some divisive elements (like "shared sovereignty"),  but having seen the present proposal - an advice to parliament  (not the government), on matters relating to indigenous disadvantage**, he apparently now sees no problem. 

** ok... that's my reading; I will object to a voice which divides the nation.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 30^th, 2022 at 5:22pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 30th, 2022 at 5:14pm: Never happen ....................... Ya' never know - even Malcolm Turnbull has changed his mind on the voice, so I heard today. Malcolm was concerned that the voice in the constitution could divide Oz, and indeed the Uluru statement contained some divisive elements (like "shared sovereignty"),  but having seen the present proposal - an advice to parliament  (not the government), on matters relating to indigenous disadvantage**, he apparently now sees no problem.  ** ok... that's my reading; I will object to a voice which divides the nation.

When was Malcolm ever right?  Or Keating?  Or Howard? Or Abbott?  Or Rudd? 

What part of "the government may make alterations from time to time".. do you and Malcolm utterly fail to understand?

No sirree, SpongeBob - I won't be voting for that...... under no circumstances can anyone be offered a paid for inside track to the processes of government.... we've been arguing here for ages to abolish any donations and lobbying, as do all thinking Australians - so why would any thinking person say this idea was just fine?

You wouldn't hand over a national park to a mining company..... you wouldn't give paid by treasury jobs to a gas fracking company to give the government advice.... why would you give these things to one group alone in this country?

What possible benefit could come of it - and remember this is at all levels of government - an entire work for the dole industry at huge and unnecessary cost, and filled, as usual, with all the wrong people for the wrong reasons....

Why not create a fund raiser to fund Abo lobbying to all levels of government?  Collect from them for it and see how much you get - same as a fund raiser to actually buy and pay for land they demand as if by some right two hundred+ years after the rules have changed on land ownership ........ see how you go - put up or shut up......

Crappler still crying? 

Awesome
;D ;D

John Smith wrote on Dec 30^th, 2022 at 7:04pm:

Crappler still crying?  Awesome ;D ;D

Blow off tumbleweed

John Smith wrote on Dec 30^th, 2022 at 7:04pm:

Crappler still crying?  Awesome ;D ;D

You willing to start those fund raisers to buy Abo land and fund their lobbying?

I don't see why anyone else should be paying for it....

Gnads wrote on Dec 30^th, 2022 at 7:09pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2022 at 7:04pm: Crappler still crying?  Awesome ;D ;D Blow off tumbleweed

You're crying too? Even better  :D

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 30^th, 2022 at 7:23pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2022 at 7:04pm: Crappler still crying?  Awesome ;D ;D You willing to start those fund raisers to buy Abo land and fund their lobbying? I don't see why anyone else should be paying for it....

You don't pay sheat so stop pretending  ::)

Available data indicate that Indigenous people are 15 to 20 times more likely than non-Indigenous people to commit violent offences.

Boris wrote on Dec 30^th, 2022 at 9:05pm:

Available data indicate that Indigenous people are 15 to 20 times more likely than non-Indigenous people to commit violent offences.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png

Yeah, sure, Matty, what ever...  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

John Smith wrote on Dec 30^th, 2022 at 8:59pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 30th, 2022 at 7:23pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2022 at 7:04pm: Crappler still crying?  Awesome ;D ;D You willing to start those fund raisers to buy Abo land and fund their lobbying? I don't see why anyone else should be paying for it.... You don't pay sheat so stop pretending  ::)

Watchou mean, Sallow Boy?  I pay tax every time I buy anything!!

https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-12-2015/7EZKyj.gif

Looks like a Mk IX to me with that vertical stabiliser ....

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 30^th, 2022 at 7:00pm:

Quote: When was Malcolm ever right?  Or Keating?  Or Howard? Or Abbott?  Or Rudd?  I'll pass on that, my concern is to promote  good governance... [quote]What part of "the government may make alterations from time to time".. do you and Malcolm utterly fail to understand?

The voice will advise Parliament, it's the job of the elected government to 'make alterations'.


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No sirree, SpongeBob - I won't be voting for that...... under no circumstances can anyone be offered a paid for inside track to the processes of government.... we've been arguing here for ages to abolish any donations and lobbying, as do all thinking Australians - so why would any thinking person say this idea was just fine?

Because the voice won't be lobbying the government.


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You wouldn't hand over a national park to a mining company..... you wouldn't give paid by treasury jobs to a gas fracking company to give the government advice.... why would you give these things to one group alone in this country? What possible benefit could come of it - and remember this is at all levels of government - an entire work for the dole industry at huge and unnecessary cost, and filled, as usual, with all the wrong people for the wrong reasons....

Note : a Job Guarantee is not 'working for the dole'; useful work has value, by definition.


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Why not create a fund raiser to fund Abo lobbying to all levels of government?  Collect from them for it and see how much you get - same as a fund raiser to actually buy and pay for land they demand as if by some right two hundred+ years after the rules have changed on land ownership ........ see how you go - put up or shut up......

Government is not a fund raiser, or charity.

As for aboriginal 'land rights", surely that has advanced as far as it can? Presumably private property is addressed in the constitution.

"Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples' rights and interests in land are formally recognised over around 50 per cent of Australia's land mass".

Good governance is not handing over swathes of land under the old colonising empire system of - "I see this so I claim it!" ... which is precisely the same as the old Empires laying claim to countries etc, only as practiced on the ground by Aborigines....

SS - DD.... if anyone can't see that they are blind and stupid.

A Frenchman lands in Saigon - claims the entire country etc for France... fights off all who say NO until finally ousted.

Nugunnawalya lands on top of a hill.... lays claim to all the land he can see.... fights off all who say NO until finally ousted.

Can anyone tell me what is the difference, and why one is now shunned and outlawed and the other is some sacred ritual?

As I said - you would not consider a Chinese or a Japanese or a Uruguayan or a Mexican or an Eskimo landing here and claiming Australia for his country as lawful....... yet far too many of you consider that Ngunnawalya coming along and claiming the land was perfectly all right..... not only that - but people not even his descendants coming back over two hundred years later and claiming it under those same rules as some right, is perfectly lawful and somehow 'right'

Time to grow up and engage brain, Australia.  Imperialist Colonisation and Possession is no more.... get used to it .. ALL of you.... and Aboriginal colonisation of tracts of Australia in the past holds no more sand than any bucket with no bottom.

The Old Days are gone - now you BUY your land to own it.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 31^st, 2022 at 9:59pm:

Good governance is not handing over swathes of land under the old colonising empire system of - "I see this so I claim it!" ... which is precisely the same as the old Empires laying claim to countries etc, only as practiced on the ground by Aborigines.... SS - DD.... if anyone can't see that they are blind and stupid.

That's why I passed on Turnbull and others you mentioned, even though Turnbull now supports the voice.

But the issue of good governance remains; I say it needs to engender sustainable  prosperity and security for all. What do you say?   (Note: not the same as "equality  of outcome", but rather, the  eradication of poverty).

The rest of you post isn't addressed to me , so I'll pass on it.

Except for the last sentence: people don't need to buy land, they do need affordable housing, whether publicly or privately owned.