Saudi Arabia is making historic strides in women’s rights, so why haven’t we heard about it? 8-)

Do you have an opinion you are brave enough to share with us Brian?

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2023 at 9:23am:

Do you have an opinion you are brave enough to share with us Brian?

Will you answer mine or others' questions, Freediver?  I might answer yours  if you answer mine.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17^th, 2023 at 9:19am:

Saudi Arabia is making historic strides in women’s rights, so why haven’t we heard about it? 8-)

Because they are dwarfed by this, dozy cockwomble:


Saudi Arabia has also imprisoned activists and carried out hundreds of state executions

[From your link]

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17^th, 2023 at 9:39am:

freediver wrote on Jan 17th, 2023 at 9:23am: Do you have an opinion you are brave enough to share with us Brian? Will you answer mine or others' questions, Freediver?  I might answer yours  if you answer mine.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Is it because you are scared to even think about it, or because you are too scared to say what you think?

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2023 at 9:53am:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17th, 2023 at 9:39am: freediver wrote on Jan 17th, 2023 at 9:23am: Do you have an opinion you are brave enough to share with us Brian? Will you answer mine or others' questions, Freediver?  I might answer yours  if you answer mine.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) Is it because you are scared to even think about it, or because you are too scared to say what you think?

Will you answer mine or others' questions, Freediver?  I might answer yours  if you answer mine.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2023/country-chapters/saudi-arabia

👆 Saudi Arabia events of 2022

Note :  ⚠️ Trigger warning ⚠️

Authorities conducted arrests of peaceful dissidents, public intellectuals, and human rights activists and sentenced people to decades-long prison terms for posting on social media. Abusive practices in detention centers, including torture and mistreatment, prolonged arbitrary detention, and asset confiscation without any clear legal process, remain pervasive.

Announced legal reforms are severely undermined by widespread repression under de facto ruler Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, known as MBS. On March 12, Saudi authorities executed 81 men, the largest mass execution in decades, despite recent promises to curtail its use of the death penalty.

A series of attacks by the Saudi and United Arab Emirate-led coalition in Yemen killed at least 80 people in January.

Construction is underway for NEOM, a US$500 billion mega-city development project in Tabuk province. Human rights organizations have documented violations by Saudi authorities, including forced evictions, against the Huwaitat community to make room for construction. In July, Saudi authorities announced plans for “The Line,” a vertically layered city within NEOM that will heavily utilize artificial intelligence and “human-machine interface” technology, raising concerns about the use of digital technology to surveil future residents.

Authorities launder their reputation, stained by a deplorable human rights record, through funding lavish sports and entertainment institutions, figures, and events.

Note : ⚠️ Trigger Warning ⚠️

Freedom of Expression, Association, and Belief

Dozens of Saudi human rights defenders and activists continued to serve long prison sentences for criticizing authorities or advocating for political and rights reforms. Blogger, activist, and 2015 Sakharov Prize winner Raif Badawi remains under a travel ban despite completing his unjust 10-year prison sentence in March.

Women’s rights defenders including Loujain al-Hathloul, Nassimah al-Sadah, and Samar Badawi also remain banned from travel and under suspended prison sentences, allowing the authorities to return them to prison for any perceived criminal activity. Human rights activist Mohammed al-Rabea, aid worker Abdulrahman al-Sadhan, and human rights lawyer Waleed Abu al-Khair remained in prison on charges that relate to peaceful expression or activism.

Saudi authorities increasingly target Saudi and non-Saudi social media users for peaceful expression online and punish them with decades-long sentences. On August 9, an appeals court sentenced Salma al-Shehab, a Saudi doctoral student at the University of Leeds in the United Kingdom, to 34 years in prison for “disrupt[ing] the order and fabric of society,” apparently based solely on her Twitter activity. That same day, Saudi courts sentenced Nourah bin Saeed al-Qahtani to a lengthy 45 years in prison for “using the internet to tear the [country’s] social fabric.”

In September, Saudi prosecutors summoned US citizen Carly Morris for “disrupt[tion] of the public order,” seemingly in connection to an ongoing investigation into her social media activity. In April, Morris published a series of tweets about her inability to travel outside Saudi Arabia with her eight-year-old daughter and access important documents for her.

Dual US-Saudi citizen Salah al-Haidar, detained between May 2019 and February 2021, remains on trial on charges related to his peaceful criticism of the Saudi government on social media.

The Saudi government is notorious for repressing public dissent and has a well-established record of attempting to infiltrate technology platforms and use advanced cyber surveillance technology to spy on dissidents.

Note :  ⚠️ Trigger Warning ⚠️

Criminal Justice

Saudi Arabia has no written laws concerning sexual orientation or gender identity, but judges use principles of uncodified Islamic law to sanction people suspected of committing sexual relations outside marriage, including adultery, and extramarital and homosexual sex. If individuals are engaging in such relationships online, judges and prosecutors utilize vague provisions of the country’s anti-cybercrime law that criminalize online activity impinging on “public order, religious values, public morals, and privacy.”

On March 12, authorities executed 81 people, including 41 people from the Shia community, in the country’s largest mass execution in decades. While the Interior Ministry claimed they were executed for crimes including murder and links to foreign terrorist groups, rampant and systemic abuses in the criminal justice system suggest it is highly unlikely that any of the men received a fair trial. Only three of the 41 Shia men had been convicted on murder charges.

Despite statements by Saudi Arabia’s Human Rights Commission claiming that no one in Saudi Arabia will be executed for a crime committed as a child, the provision does not apply to qisas, retributive justice offenses usually for murder, or hudud, serious crimes defined under the country’s interpretation of Islamic law that carry specific penalties. Abdullah al-Huwaiti, who was 14 at the time of his alleged crime and whose previous death penalty conviction was overturned by the Saudi Supreme Court on the basis of a false confession and insufficient evidence, was sentenced to death again on March 2 by a lower criminal court.

Human Rights Watch reported in March on 10 Nubian Egyptians unjustly and arbitrarily detained on speech, association, and terrorism charges, seemingly in reprisal for expressing their cultural heritage. The Specialized Criminal Court brought charges against them in September 2021.

At least four detained Muslim Uyghurs, including one 13-year-old girl, remained at imminent risk of deportation from Saudi Arabia to China, where they would be at serious risk of arbitrary detention and torture.

Note : ⚠️ Trigger Warning ⚠️

Women’s Rights

Despite some reforms, authorities continue to implement a male guardianship system requiring women to obtain male guardian permission to get married, leave prison, or obtain some forms of sexual and reproductive healthcare.  Husbands reportedly can withhold consent if a woman seeks higher education abroad.

In March, Saudi lawmakers passed the country’s first codified personal status law. However, despite Saudi authorities’ promises for a “comprehensive” and “progressive” personal status law, the law entrenches discriminatory provisions on women in marriage, divorce, inheritance, and decisions relating to children. Rather than dismantling it, the law instead codifies male guardianship and sets out provisions that can facilitate and excuse domestic violence including sexual abuse in marriage.

Women are required to have their male guardian’s permission in order to marry. Once married, women are required to then obey their husbands in a “reasonable manner.”  Articles 42 and 55 together state a husband’s financial support is specifically made contingent on a wife’s “obedience” to the husband, and she can lose her right to such support if she refuses without a “legitimate excuse” to have sex with him, move to or live in the marital home, or travel with him. Article 42(3) states that neither spouse may abstain from sexual relations or cohabitation with the other without the other spouse’s consent, implying a marital right to intercourse.

Article 9 declares the legal age of marriage as 18 but allows courts to authorize the marriage of a child under 18 if they have reached puberty and if it can be proved that the marriage provides an “established benefit” to the child.

While men can unilaterally divorce women, women can only petition a court to dissolve their marriage contract on limited grounds and must “establish harm” as a prerequisite. The law does not specify what constitutes “harm” or what evidence can be submitted to support a case, leaving room for judges’ discretion in interpretation and enforcement.

Elements of the male guardianship system that remain in practice can prevent a divorced woman from financial independence. For example, a man can funnel post-divorce financial support payments to his ex-wife through her male relative if she lives with her family post-divorce, denying her direct access to the payments.

Under the Saudi Personal Status Law, fathers are the default guardians of their children. Even if the authorities order the children to live with their mothers, women have limited authority over their children’s lives and cannot act as guardians of children unless a court appoints them. The 2016  and 2019 legal amendments allowing mothers with primary custody of their children to apply for passports, provide travel permission, and obtain important documents for their children without a male guardian are seemingly inconsistently applied. 

No wonder Brian is frightened of his own opinion.

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2023 at 3:08pm:

No wonder Brian is frightened of his own opinion.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png

Yeah, yeah, whatever, Freediver, whatever...   ::) ::)

Are you even allowed to have an opinion on Saudi Arabia?

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2023 at 7:01am:

Are you even allowed to have an opinion on Saudi Arabia?

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png

Will you answer mine or others' questions, Freediver?  I might answer yours...  Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 21^st, 2023 at 1:57pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 21st, 2023 at 7:01am: Are you even allowed to have an opinion on Saudi Arabia? https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png Will you answer mine or others' questions, Freediver?  I might answer yours...  Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

What IS your question, poncy prick? I bet you don't remember.

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 21^st, 2023 at 1:57pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 21st, 2023 at 7:01am: Are you even allowed to have an opinion on Saudi Arabia? https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png Will you answer mine or others' questions, Freediver?  I might answer yours...  Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 5:39pm:

I make no excuses for those nations and their laws, BV.  I merely recognise that it is their right to create and unfortunately impose those punishments.   It is terrible but I also recognise I have no right or ability to criticise them.  I am neither a member of their religion or a citizen of any of those nations.

Brian is an institutionalised boy.
He couldn't think for himself if he tried.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Dear Lisa j,

Thanks for the long posts on Women's Rights but do we really have to read through a yellow swamp ? OK, yellow is my least favourite colour. , in fact large areas of it induce nausea.

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17^th, 2023 at 9:19am:

Saudi Arabia is making historic strides in women’s rights, so why haven’t we heard about it? 8-)

Probably because Australia made those kinds of strides in women's rights over 100 years ago. This is an "about phuckin' time" story from Saudi Arabia.

We'll have to wait and see just how free Saud actually becomes. I doubt any decree is going to make a difference in the short term, we are talking about Islam remember, and its riddled with repression, revenge, sectarian hatred, misogyny and honor killings.

That's why white women love becoming their extra wives and concubines.

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2023 at 7:01am:

Are you even allowed to have an opinion on Saudi Arabia?

Well Saudi residents living in the country certainly aren't.

And how ironic that a woman—Fatimah Almathami—who
claims that Saudi Arabia is loosening up its strict moral
and ethical codes—is still forced into wearing a hijab.

https://i.postimg.cc/xC7LtvDf/Screenshot-2023-01-22-at-15-14-22-Saudi-Arabia-is-making-historic-strides-in-women-s-rights-so-why-h.png

And I know she'd say it's her choice to wear her religious rags,
but we all know that's an untruth—Almathami is afraid not to
for fear of male retribution directed towards her, possibly violent.

THIS article talks about some women who've decide for different
reasons to stop wearing hijab.

One of the women says, after removing her hijab, "I felt 'innocent'
of the political issues plaguing this  country, I felt none of the
accountability I usually shoulder. I felt like I shed all of the
stereotypes in one act of removing the hijab."

AusGeoff wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2023 at 2:57pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 21st, 2023 at 7:01am: Are you even allowed to have an opinion on Saudi Arabia? Well Saudi residents living in the country certainly aren't. And how ironic that a woman—Fatimah Almathami—who claims that Saudi Arabia is loosening up its strict moral and ethical codes—is still forced into wearing a hijab. https://i.postimg.cc/xC7LtvDf/Screenshot-2023-01-22-at-15-14-22-Saudi-Arabia-is-making-historic-strides-in-women-s-rights-so-why-h.png And I know she'd say it's her choice to wear her religious rags, but we all know that's an untruth—Almathami is afraid not to for fear of male retribution directed towards her, possibly violent. THIS article talks about some women who've decide for different reasons to stop wearing hijab. One of the women says, after removing her hijab, "I felt 'innocent' of the political issues plaguing this  country, I felt none of the accountability I usually shoulder. I felt like I shed all of the stereotypes in one act of removing the hijab."

The Hijab is supposed to cover hair.

Iranian women started showing hair under Hijab as a protest to mandatory Hijab.

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 17^th, 2023 at 1:10pm:

Note : ⚠️ Trigger Warning ⚠️ Women’s Rights Despite some reforms, authorities continue to implement a male guardianship system requiring women to obtain male guardian permission to get married, leave prison, or obtain some forms of sexual and reproductive healthcare.  Husbands reportedly can withhold consent if a woman seeks higher education abroad. In March, Saudi lawmakers passed the country’s first codified personal status law. However, despite Saudi authorities’ promises for a “comprehensive” and “progressive” personal status law, the law entrenches discriminatory provisions on women in marriage, divorce, inheritance, and decisions relating to children. Rather than dismantling it, the law instead codifies male guardianship and sets out provisions that can facilitate and excuse domestic violence including sexual abuse in marriage. Women are required to have their male guardian’s permission in order to marry. Once married, women are required to then obey their husbands in a “reasonable manner.”  Articles 42 and 55 together state a husband’s financial support is specifically made contingent on a wife’s “obedience” to the husband, and she can lose her right to such support if she refuses without a “legitimate excuse” to have sex with him, move to or live in the marital home, or travel with him. Article 42(3) states that neither spouse may abstain from sexual relations or cohabitation with the other without the other spouse’s consent, implying a marital right to intercourse. Article 9 declares the legal age of marriage as 18 but allows courts to authorize the marriage of a child under 18 if they have reached puberty and if it can be proved that the marriage provides an “established benefit” to the child. While men can unilaterally divorce women, women can only petition a court to dissolve their marriage contract on limited grounds and must “establish harm” as a prerequisite. The law does not specify what constitutes “harm” or what evidence can be submitted to support a case, leaving room for judges’ discretion in interpretation and enforcement. Elements of the male guardianship system that remain in practice can prevent a divorced woman from financial independence. For example, a man can funnel post-divorce financial support payments to his ex-wife through her male relative if she lives with her family post-divorce, denying her direct access to the payments. Under the Saudi Personal Status Law, fathers are the default guardians of their children. Even if the authorities order the children to live with their mothers, women have limited authority over their children’s lives and cannot act as guardians of children unless a court appoints them. The 2016  and 2019 legal amendments allowing mothers with primary custody of their children to apply for passports, provide travel permission, and obtain important documents for their children without a male guardian are seemingly inconsistently applied.

When they say neither spouse may abstain from sex they're talking about the 4 wives muslim men are allowed to have it doesn't apply to men.

The Saudi constitution says Quran and Sunnah are the constitution.


Quote:

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand. https://legacy.quran.com/4/34

There you go Allah the most merciful of those who show mercy allows wife beating if you fear disobedience. It's easy to forsake one of your wives in bed if she is disobedient when you have 4 wives.

Muhammad got busted banging his copitc christian slave girl Maria.

Quote:

It was narrated from Anas, that the Messenger of Allah had a female slave with whom he had intercourse, but 'Aishah and Hafsah would not leave him alone until he said that she was forbidden for him. Then Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, revealed: "O Prophet! Why do you forbid (for yourself) that which Allah has allowed to you.' until the end of the Verse. https://sunnah.com/nasai:3959

His wives were really upset with him banging Maria so Allah sent a revelation just in time to bring peace to his household.

As punishment for his disobedient wives for complaing about him banging Maria he did not have sex with any of his wives for a month. In that month he was banging Maria who gave him his only son Ibrahim who died before his 2nd birthday.

Muslims claim Muhammad is the perfect example of a man.  ::)

Upon the Temple of Ur, the worship (wonder) of Sin (Luna) above in the skies - inspired directly, the innovation of the world's first official creation of 'Writing'.
For a long time, this gift of Sin upon the Temple of Ur - participated in Sumerian life for ages. Used primarily for logistical reasons, scientific reasons (like innovations) and harvests, weather, etc. Those in charge of recording such things in the Cuniform Writing were regarded as Sin-Urs (Sinners) Those of Ur who worship Ab-Sin-nanna.

...then, one day - a man called Zarathustra decided to gather all the local pagan myths and stories and compile them into one almighty story of his own interpretation. Thus - the world's first official Religion was created. Known today via the Greek translation as Zoroastrianism. The first Monotheism although it still incorporated a Duality between Good and Evil.

The Age of Zarathustra's Religion grew and the world of the boring reality of Sumeria in the hands of the Sin-Urs soon vanished to 'god knows' where?

The Babylonians knew a good thing when they saw it and made a Company take-over of Sumeria and cashed in on the latest fad of innovation: Religion.

From Zarathustra's Monotheism (One story to rule over all the little pagan stories and that one story just happened to be Zarathustra's) - who was paid handsomely in royalties for his niche market. Sprang a 'new' Religion via a guy called Adam and his wife Eve - who were dirt poor and mostly naked for clothes were for the rich. They called it 'Jew' (after a fish) and told the story of their own family tree and thus writing 'immortalised' their own bloodline in stone for years to follow. Adam & Eve had found another niche market for Writing and the Religion of Judaism started to grow. Everyone wanted to be part of the family.

Thus the first child of Zoroastrianism was born.

...then the rest is history (via writing at least) with two more sons born in Christianity and Mohommedism.

                        
                              Sin-Ur
                                  I
                                  I
                                  I
                                  I
                                  I
                         Zoroastrianism (Middle-East)
                                  I
                                  I
        --------------------------------------------
        I                         I                            I
        I                         I                            I
  Judaism             Christianity           Mohommedism
  (Asia)                 (Europe)                 (Africa)


These three sons of Zarathustra's Monotheism were created to be themed on the threee surrounding old worlds of Asia, Europe, Africa.
Where the Jews got rich off all the little yellow people in Asia and Moslems bred like mice under the watch of a token black man from Africa. While Christians just conquered the inhabitants of Europe and made them slaves to Religion rather than Medicine and Music which they were quite fond off in their Age of Faerie before Writing put a stop to all that nonsense.


...but now, the New Worlds have changed the ball game and Europe, Asia & Africa are waking up to the lies that the Religions from the Middle-East have made for them.


...btw - whatever did happen to those Sin-Ur chaps at the start? Was Buzz Aldrin a Sin-Ur? Afterall - he saved the mission with a Pen from his pocket.  ;)

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2023 at 9:23am:

Do you have an opinion you are brave enough to share with us Brian?

I have a question, FD. Up for it?

Frank wrote on Jan 21^st, 2023 at 2:02pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 21st, 2023 at 1:57pm: freediver wrote on Jan 21st, 2023 at 7:01am: Are you even allowed to have an opinion on Saudi Arabia? https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5536/WEbaRN.png Will you answer mine or others' questions, Freediver?  I might answer yours...  Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::) What IS your question, poncy prick? I bet you don't remember.

I have one for you too, old boy.

Brave enough?