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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl General Discussion >> Aboriginal Affairs >> We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice? http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1680817653 Message started by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 7:47am

Title: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 7:47am

We already lost the right to visit Ayers Rock -
what else will we lose after a voice is passed?

see article on this site:
https://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/racism-government-imposed-sacred-cows-wrapped-woolly-fuzz-political-correctness.html

Racism and government-imposed sacred cows, wrapped in the woolly fuzz of political correctness

4/11/17

White people will be banned from Uluru.
All non-aborigines will be, and presumably those aborigines who are from the wrong tribal group. Clearly, this is racist. Chances are, women won’t be allowed up there either, even if they have the correct skin colour. Even more concerning is that this is justified on spiritual grounds. One group’s spiritual views are so much more important than everyone else’s that the government has enshrined them in legislation so that our most iconic natural monument can be fenced off.

Our beaches, our national parks, our oceans, our rivers, these are all public property to be shared for the enjoyment of all. They are important to all Australians, not just a select few. They have spiritual significance to all sorts of people. They are not to be sold off to the loudest group of racist, religious zealots, no matter how sympathetic or politically correct their zealotry is.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 7:54am

Let's look at New Zealand where the Maoris were given a voice.

Mt Eden used to be a great place to visit in Auckland.
It has magnificent sights in all directions from up high.
The road is now closed because of Maoris.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/75952874/work-already-underway-to-block-mt-edens-summit-road-to-cars-before-ban-in-place

Paul Majurey, chair of the Tupuna Maunga o Tamaki Makaurau Authority which looks after Auckland's volcanic cones, said the ban respected the spiritual and cultural significance of the summit to Mana Whenua, as well as the community's aspirations.

"Motor vehicle restriction on the tihi of Maungawhau was signalled many years ago as a key measure to protect this taonga, and to reflect the Mana Whenua and community aspirations of their living connections with this taonga. It is very pleasing to have reached this point."

Pedestrians and cyclists will still be able to use the summit road.

https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/building-and-consents/resource-consents/prepare-resource-consent-application/Pages/engaging-with-mana-whenua.aspx

What is mana whenua?

In the consenting context, mana whenua means the indigenous people
(Māori) who have historic and territorial rights over the land.
It refers to iwi and hapū (Māori tribal groups) who have these rights in Tāmaki Makaurau, Auckland.

Mana whenua interests are represented by 19 iwi (tribal) authorities in Tāmaki Makaurau, Auckland.

Resource consent applicants need to engage with mana whenua, in certain circumstances, by contacting the relevant iwi authority.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Redmond Neck on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 7:56am

Yep!

Vote NO!!!

>:(

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 7:58am

So - in NZ they gave the Maoris a voice and one by one New Zealanders lost their rights
to obscure Maori made up nonsense.

The same will happen here and it has already started without a voice.
Imagine how bad it will be with a voice?

Don't vote yes for a voice - it's bad enough already.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 7:58am

Redmond Neck wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 7:56am:

Yep!

Vote NO!!!

>:(

Vote No.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 8:01am

Mount Eden lost due to Maoris.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Eden

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 8:04am

View from the crater on Mt Eden:

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 8:06am

Aerial view of Mt Eden

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by philperth2010 on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:02am

There is already Native Title without the voice....Aboriginal people were granted land rights by the High Court in 1993....Freediver thinks Native Title is a joke and ignores it's implications and the rights of Indiginous Australian's by posting irrelivant bullshit that has no foundation in law....The Voice will have no impact on Aboriginal people's rights to Native Title which already exists....More lies and scare mongering by people who have no idea how the law works....Why do people feel it neccassary to post bullshit in opposition to the voice???

Quote:

The NTA (Native Title Act) was passed in 1993. It established a process for claiming and recognising native title lands and waters in Australia. The NTA aims to balance Indigenous and non-Indigenous peoples’ rights to land, and sets out how native title rights and interests fit within Australian law.

Native title rights cannot be claimed in relation to minerals, gas or petroleum under Australian law. Native title in tidal and sea areas can only be of a non-exclusive nature, as exclusive native title is considered inconsistent with other common law rights regarding marine access and navigation.

A full description of Native Title is supplied in the links below....Indiginous people have always had rights to certain lands in Australia and nothing will ever change that with or without the voice....Educate yourself Bobby and stop being ignorant about the things you claim which are not true!!!

:-? :-? :-?

https://nativetitle.org.au/learn/native-title-and-pbcs/native-title-rights-and-interests#:~:text=What%20is%20native%20title%3F,their%20traditional%20laws%20and%20customs.

http://www.nntt.gov.au/Information%20Publications/Native%20Title%20an%20overview.pdf

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:18am

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:02am:

Why do people feel it neccessary to post bullshit in support of the voice???

Noel Pearson, Marcia Langton, Anthony Albanese??? for 3 who are playing the emotional blackmail & vilifying anyone who opposes it.

Pearson -"I had a dream last night.... a troubling dream ... where judas Peter Dutton was acting like an undertaker burying Aboriginal people."

Albanese - "You should take the opportunity & do the right thing so you can feel good about yourself."

Then stole Pearsons line about Dutton being an undertaker.

Marcia Langton says - Dutton lied about the voice.

So anyone who opposes the voice because of the failure of activists & govt to lay everything out on the table about how it will work, who will be on it & what powers it will have is a liar? ::)

Linda Burnie gets up in Parliament & says Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islanders do not have a voice to Parliament ......

she should resign immediately because she's not doing her job as Minister for Indigenous Australians.

Baaaaa baaaaa you mindless sheep ..... wanting to amend the Constitution based on colour/race.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by philperth2010 on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:30am

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:18am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:02am:

What does your bullshit racist rant have to do with established law....Native Title already exists....I was pointing out to Bobby his characterization of the voice is incorrect and has no basis in fact or law....At least if you are arguing against the Voice you can support your arguments with facts not bullshit....I agree there is not enough detail about the Voice and what it contains for people to make an informed decision and that is a failure of the Albanese Government to provide enough detail people can understand....Opponents like Bobby are exploiting the lack of detail to missrepresent the facts and make claims that are obviously bullshit....Bobby is simply wrong as usual!!!

::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:34am

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:30am:

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:18am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:02am:

The Voice has SFA to do with Native title.

There is more to lose with a race based voice to parliament enshrined in the Constitution which represents all Australians.

So who's having a rant?

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:58am

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:34am:

The Voice has SFA to do with Native title.

But it does have something to do with closing the gap; in fact, failing to say how the voice will close the gap is the stated reason why the Nats reject the voice.

What is your policy to close the gap?

Quote:

There is more to lose with a race based voice to parliament enshrined in the Constitution which represents all Australians.

So who's having a rant?

I have to say I'm not in favour of cultural/religious mythology restricting reasonable activities in our time; I loved climbing Uluru (Ayres Rock) - one of the great outback experiences in Oz.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by philperth2010 on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:02am

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:34am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:30am:

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:18am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:02am:

The Voice has SFA to do with Native title.

There is more to lose with a race based voice to parliament enshrined in the Constitution which represents all Australians.

So who's having a rant?

Exactly....The Voice has SFA to do with Native title so why is Bobby posting bullshit....You are actually supporting my argument with your rant mate!!!

:) :) :)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:06am

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:02am:

Exactly....The Voice has SFA to do with Native title so why is Bobby posting bullshit....You are actually supporting my argument with your rant mate!!!

:) :) :)

I'm not posting bullshit.

What else do we stand to lose if the Voice vote is yes -
you tell us?

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:31am

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:30am:

dear Phil,
The Voice is basically a blank cheque -
the same will happen here as it did in NZ
where the Maoris invented new concepts such as Mana Whenua
to take rights away from New Zealanders -
next thing we'll be banned from certain beaches, national parks, ocean areas, rivers, mountains, hills
and whatever else the Abbos can think up.
I'm going to vote No and I advise you to do the same.

Losing Ayers Rock was already too much -
you give them an inch and they take a mile.

They took Mt Eden in Auckland - people never saw that coming either.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by philperth2010 on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:54am

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:31am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:30am:

I am just pointing out that your concerns relate to Native Title (NTA) which is already established law in Australia....Aboriginal people can already lay claim to areas of Australia and have done so successfully over decades!!!

Quote:

In 1992, the High Court of Australia handed down its decision in Mabo v Queensland (No 2) [1992] HCA 23; (1992) 175 CLR 1 (3 June 1992) [Mabo (No. 2)]. The court recognised that the Meriam people of the Torres Strait held native title over part of their traditional lands. The court found that the common law of Australia recognises rights and interests to land held by indigenous people under their traditional laws and customs.

The source of native title rights and interests is the traditional laws and customs of the native title holders. This means that the nature of native title rights and interests varies from community to community.

Following the decision in Mabo No.2, the government enacted the Native Title Act 1993, which commenced on 1 January 1994. The Act has a number of functions. It creates processes through which native title can be recognised and protected.

:-? :-? :-?

https://www.ag.gov.au/legal-system/native-title#:~:text=By%20contrast%2C%20native%20title%20arises,or%20right%20created%20by%20governments.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:58am

Any law that gives special privileges to one group is not a legal law under our system of government based on the rules of law.

Would you say the same if that special privilege had been given to a rock-blasting group, a group that specialises in selling pieces of The True Rock, or to a foreign national group?

NO! So why is this given to one minority group here? Because they cry louder, are the only ones who even get a say, and have the ear of the supplicant and stupid media?

The spiritual aspects of all of those things are for everyone - not just the province of a small group. This is nothing more than an example of the profligate use of land to sustain a transient hunter gatherer society that has long been overturned by civilisation.

Civil war is coming if the stupid politicians and their bum chums keep on down this path.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:04am

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:54am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:31am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:30am:

:-? :-? :-?

https://www.ag.gov.au/legal-system/native-title#:~:text=By%20contrast%2C%20native%20title%20arises,or%20right%20created%20by%20governments.

My point is that we have already given them
too much and they have abused it -
don't give them more.
The cases of Ayers Rock and Mr Eden should
be enough of a wake up call.
They will never be satisfied with our appeasement.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:04am

Native title needs to be properly organised and rules set down for it that actually reflect the law - not just some alcohol haze driven 'empathy' from some dork in a court. Felling sorry for the past owners is not sufficient reason to rob the current owners. If you are 3% of the population now you may only claim 3% at most of your 'former' lands that your ancestors might or might not have walked over, and then we'll se how it works out given that people now rightly own a lot of it through hard cash, so bugger off!

If the old Aboriginal colonial ways of ancestors walking across a swathe of land were the case I'd own half of NSW and most of the rest of Australia that is worth owning.

Wake up, Australia!! You are letting these political hacks and their bum buddies destroy your nation and rob you of your rights, using the old worn-out 'poor, poor women' and 'poor, poor Aborigines' and such to do so.

If they're so 'poor, poor' then let them make their way up the ladder like everyone else had to, and stop the free hand-outs of everything in sight on demand and whine.

P.S. and national parks are NATIONAL and are held in trust by governments for ALL the people... if that trust is broken then the people have the right to take them back.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by philperth2010 on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:09am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:58am:

Any law that gives special privileges to one group is not a legal law under our system of government based on the rules of law.

Care to site this law that Governments cannot make laws concering the rights and privileges of Indiginous people or any other Australian people....Native Title is based on the rules of law???

::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by philperth2010 on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:14am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:04am:

Native title needs to be properly organised and rules set down for it that actually reflect the law - not just some alcohol haze driven 'empathy' from some dork in a court.

P.S. and national parks are NATIONAL and are held in trust by governments for ALL the people... if that trust is broken then the people have the right to take them back.

You have no idea mate....Remain stupid!!!

::) ::) ::)

Never try to reason the prejudice out of a man. It was not reasoned into him, and cannot be reasoned out.
Sydney Smith (1771 - 1845)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by philperth2010 on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:32am

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:04am:

I have already explained to you that Native Title and Land Rights are already established in Australian law....If you want to challenge any claim take it up with the High Court if you have enough money and a legal argument....You have no idea what you are ranting about!!!

::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:35am

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:14am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:04am:

You have no idea mate....Remain stupid!!!

::) ::) ::)

Never try to reason the prejudice out of a man. It was not reasoned into him, and cannot be reasoned out.
Sydney Smith (1771 - 1845)

I have every idea. Native title was never properly set down and regulated and is just an ad hoc collection of often unassociated decisions - simply not good enough under the principle of Common Law.

Clearly you have no idea, but your kind of kow-towing yes voter is in the minority.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:41am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:58am:

NO! So why is this given to one minority group here? Because they cry louder, are the only ones who even get a say, and have the ear of the supplicant and stupid media?[/quote]

I asked Gnads and he disappeared; what is his proposal to close the gap...he might assist the Nats in their concerns that a voice won't close the gap.

Quote:

The spiritual aspects of all of those things are for everyone - not just the province of a small group. This is nothing more than an example of the profligate use of land to sustain a transient hunter gatherer society that has long been overturned by civilisation.

Yes, 'culture' dies hard: some Christians want to insist on certain perceived "rights" to discriminate.

[quote]Civil war is coming if the stupid politicians and their bum chums keep on down this path.

It is interesting the High Court confirmed 'land rights', instead of confirming the right of everyone to a home.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:43am

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:32am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:04am:

Phil,
have no idea what you are ranting about!!!
The Voice is such a vague term that it could mean anything.
It's not what one politician says now or what another one says tomorrow
or what a lawyer says or an Abbo says -
no one knows what it means.
Albo makes up a different story every day and no matter what he says
it won't mean anything 2 years from now.
These things have to be put in writing -
it needs to be 10 pages long at least -
all we have are 2 words in writing - the voice. tsk tsk ::) ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:48am

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:43am:

I have no idea what you are ranting about!!!
The Voice is such a vague term that it could mean anything.

Yes, indeed the Nats say the voice won't close the gap, without offering their own policies to close tha gap.

Can you assist the Nats? Gnads disappeared when I asked him for his policies...

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:51am

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:48am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:43am:

I have no idea what you are ranting about!!!
The Voice is such a vague term that it could mean anything.

Yes, indeed the Nats say the voice won't close the gap, without offering their own policies to close tha gap.

Can you assist the Nats? Gnads disappeared when I asked him for his policies...

We run the risk of Abbos making up new words like
the Maoris making up the words Mana Whenua -
and saying that it applies now because of the Voice.

Quote:

What is mana whenua?

In the consenting context, mana whenua means the indigenous people
(Māori) who have historic and territorial rights over the land.

It refers to iwi and hapū (Māori tribal groups) who have these rights in Tāmaki Makaurau, Auckland.

Mana whenua interests are represented by 19 iwi (tribal) authorities in Tāmaki Makaurau, Auckland.

Resource consent applicants need to engage with mana whenua, in certain circumstances, by contacting the relevant iwi authority.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:51am

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:43am:

I have no idea what you are ranting about!!!
The Voice is such a vague term that it could mean anything.

Yes, indeed the Nats say the voice won't close the gap, without offering their own policies to close tha gap.

Can you assist the Nats? Gnads disappeared when I asked him for his policies...

Graps offered his 'policy' - little more than what one poster correctly described as a racist rant...

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:01pm

There is no equation between saying something won't close a gap and offering a solution that will close the gap. If I say that a rock to the head will not close a broken dam, I have no need to offer an alternative.

Round 'em all up - sort out this land claims nonsense once and for all, give 'em a Homeland, Aborassic Park and Gondwanamo Bay, and shift all land claims to one spot that they can enjoy as a self-funding and self-regulated State under the Commonwealth.. get 'em all in one place and sort the good from the bad and point left or right as they pass by the gatekeeper...

Farewell to Australia forever
Farewell to my rum culls as well
Farewell to the well known Old Darwin
Where I used for to cut such a swell

[Chorus]
Singing toorali-orali-addity
Singing toorali-oolari-ai
Singing toorali-ollari-addity
We're bound for Gondwanamo Bay

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:03pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:51am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:43am:

I have no idea what you are ranting about!!!
The Voice is such a vague term that it could mean anything.

Nothing will close the gap -
we already spend astronomical amounts of money that we
give away to Abbos and all they want is more - and now they want a voice too
when they have already got a voice.
They can speak can't they?
They will never be satisfied and they will only see this appeasement as weakness
to claim more money and close off more areas of land and sea.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:05pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:01pm:

The Abbos can't run a business and support themselves -
they can only take from the hard work of other people.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:11pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:05pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:01pm:

The Abbos can't run a business and support themselves -
they can only take from the hard work of other people.

Remember that phrase next time you hear about some land claim - "profligate use of land to sustain a nomadic, transient hunter gatherer lifestyle long overtaken by civilisation" - massive land claims under any description have no place in modern society. Even the claimants no longer live that lifestyle ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

It's bullshit.

You know what I love about his voice nonsense? The way it's brought so many things out into the open for honest discussion for once in a hundred years or so. Albo's plan all along... cunning no?

First we settle the voice insanity - then we move on to all the rest of it.... all the other insanities.. and set them right in a civilised society of legal equals.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by philperth2010 on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:16pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:35am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:14am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:04am:

You have no idea mate....Remain stupid!!!

::) ::) ::)

Never try to reason the prejudice out of a man. It was not reasoned into him, and cannot be reasoned out.
Sydney Smith (1771 - 1845)

I give up trying to explain common law to a complete dickheads like you and Bobby....Get mummy to explain it to you idiot!!!

::) ::) ::)

https://austlii.community/foswiki/ACTLawHbk/OurLegalSystem#:~:text=Common%20law%20and%20the%20courts,decisions%20made%20in%20similar%20cases.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:19pm

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:16pm:

I give up trying to explain common law to a complete dickheads like you and Bobby....Get mummy to explain it to you idiot!!!

::) ::) ::)

Resorting to Ad Hominem attacks now?

No one can argue against the powerful points I've made in this thread.
It's been a disaster in NZ to give the Maoris a voice and
we've already lost Ayers Rock here - that's enough!

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by philperth2010 on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:27pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:19pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:16pm:

I give up trying to explain common law to a complete dickheads like you and Bobby....Get mummy to explain it to you idiot!!!

::) ::) ::)

~~Resorting to Ad Hominem attacks now?~~

No one can argue against the powerful points I've made in this thread.
It's been a disaster in NZ to give the Maoris a voice and
we've already lost Ayers Rock here - that's enough!

I tore your bullshit to threads mate....Native Title is already established law....The only way to change that is to challenge individual claims in the High Coart or change the Constitution to abolish the rights of Government and Courts to determine laws and enact legislation....You have no idea what you are talking about???

Quote:

Our law comes from parliaments and courts. Parliaments make legislation while courts make common law. Parliaments and courts make both private and public law.

::) ::) ::)

Link to explain common law....
https://austlii.community/foswiki/ACTLawHbk/OurLegalSystem#:~:text=Common%20law%20and%20the%20courts,decisions%20made%20in%20similar%20cases.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:30pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:01pm:

There is no equation between saying something won't close a gap and offering a solution that will close the gap.

Regardless of your "equation"; surely the onus is on the person saying the voice won't close the gap (in this case, the Nats spokesman), to say what WILL close the gap.

That's the whole point of the Voice: to try to find policies which will close the gap.

Quote:

If I say that a rock to the head will not close a broken dam, I have no need to offer an alternative.

Flawed analogy: there is no relationship ("equation") between a KO and repairing a dam, though a rock correctly placed may close the dam.

Quote:

Round 'em all up - sort out this land claims nonsense once and for all,

Perhaps delusional Western 'individual rights' ideology is at fault; the High Court ought to be supporting the universal right to a home, rather than 'land rights' nonsense.

[There is a confusion of cultures of course; the native culture only recognized tribal lands, but individuals within those lands had free access to all the land, a form of 'communism'].

Quote:

give 'em a Homeland, Aborassic Park and Gondwanamo Bay, and shift all land claims to one spot that they can enjoy as a self-funding and self-regulated State under the Commonwealth.

Apartheid.

Quote:

get 'em all in one place and sort the good from the bad and point left or right as they pass by the gatekeeper...

Racist.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:33pm

You have a problem with common law being properly codified and organised so that it does the intended job equally for all rather than permitting an ad hoc accumulation of disparate results?

Clearly your idea of law and of common law is distorted. One wrongful decision made on the basis of a previous decision but not the same shows the need for proper codification.... Mabo was a distinct claim where there were clear connections... most modern claims have only an alleged 'spiritual' connection, since none of the claimants actually live there - they live in town and eat Macca's etc - and they scarcely live the transient, land profligate hunter gatherer lifestyle. On that last - that means such mega claims are wrongful from the outset.... history has overtaken them.... sorry to explain that to you. It is nothing but semantic abuse to say that people should have the right to exercise traditional things on a huge swathe - something they were always able to do - and then somehow translate that into absolute ownership by modern rules.

It just doesn't wash - hence the need for a proper reconciliation and ratification of what 'native title' actually means in the modern age.

I know that's too hard for you to follow out there in Housoville with your Houso mouth....

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:36pm

Phil,

Quote:

Those laws have been a disaster.
Only Black fellas can go to the top of Ayers Rock -
Black women and all White people are not allowed.
The Abbos are a mob of racist arse holes and you want to give them more power.
It's people like you who will tear our country apart -
you're a traitor and a racist.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:51pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:33pm:

You have a problem with common law being properly codified and organised so that it does the intended job equally for all rather than permitting an ad hoc accumulation of disparate results?

Yes, when that law oversees entrenched poverty and homelessness, amidst soaring inequality and gross accumulation of wealth by individuals.

Quote:

Clearly your idea of law and of common law is distorted.

How is promotion of collective wellbeing "distorted"?

Quote:

One wrongful decision made on the basis of a previous decision but not the same shows the need for proper codification....

Sounds sensible....

Quote:

Mabo was a distinct claim where there were clear connections...

But anachronistic in the modern world; in today's money-based economy, we need houses to live in, not land with equal rights to roam over ...

Quote:

most modern claims have only an alleged 'spiritual' connection, since none of the claimants actually live there - they live in town and eat Macca's etc - and they scarcely live the transient, land profligate hunter gatherer lifestyle. On that last - that means such mega claims are wrongful from the outset.... history has overtaken them.... sorry to explain that to you.

No need to explain it to me: I want us ALL to move forward into a new world eg, described in the UNUDHR.

Quote:

It is nothing but semantic abuse to say that people should have the right to exercise traditional things on a huge swathe - something they were always able to do - and then somehow translate that into absolute ownership by modern rules.

Correct: a confusion of cultures and anachronistic ideas.

Quote:

It just doesn't wash - hence the need for a proper reconciliation and ratification of what 'native title' actually means in the modern age.

I agree; for me 'native title' should mean exercise of personal agency in a poverty free world.

[I reject claim of mere "assimilation", since what I am seeking requires change of our own 'survival of the fittest' 'culture' as well.

Quote:

I know that's too hard for you to follow out there in Housoville with your Houso mouth....

Refuted above; whose's insisting on maintaining the 'cultural status quo', you or me?

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:57pm

Not so - the government of the day need only properly codify 'land claims' into proper legislation that properly accords with Law and treats all equally and actually reflects reality.

What part of 'the profligate over-use of land to sustain a nomadic, transient hunter gatherer lifestyle that no longer exists works against any large land claim', do you fail to understand? Just because their ancestors once walked across it (they don't now) doesn't make it theirs and the modern age has overtaken them, so it's time for governments to move properly and close the gaps here.

Yeah - I used to ride me bike a few miles in the heat down to the beach to go surfing.... does that make all that mine for the claiming? Right you lot - off my beach!!

Does anyone today get to walk through a national park and then lay claim to it? Or anywhere else?

Native title was improperly handled by the courts way back and needs to be rectified to meet modern day usage. NOBODY gets to claim a huge swathe of land these days - first it must be available for sale (national parks are not and never will be) and then it must be paid for. Mabo was an isolated situation on a small island where unbroken possession and squatter's rights prevailed.... the rest are bullshit apart from a few isolated cases, and the rules of 'traditional uses' must be clearly laid out so all can use national parks etc without interference.

I have no problem with natives using our national parks for their traditional pursuits such as yabbying etc and the occasional genuine solstice thing or whatever that never happens every day ... everyone else also has the right to use those national parks..... without interference, let alone threats or violence from ANYONE - and that includes government. Be careful what you ask for... you just might get it.

Wake up.

Dum-da-dum-dum.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:18pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:57pm:

Not so - the government of the day need only properly codify 'land claims' into proper legislation that properly accords with Law and treats all equally and actually reflects reality.

I disagree; government ought to codify law which ensures provision of essentials for all.

Quote:

What part of 'the profligate over-use of land to sustain a nomadic, transient hunter gatherer lifestyle that no longer exists works against any large land claim', do you fail to understand? Just because their ancestors once walked across it (they don't now) doesn't make it theirs and the modern age has overtaken them, so it's time for governments to move properly and close the gaps here.

I agree.

Quote:

Native title was improperly handled by the courts way back and needs to be rectified to meet modern day usage.

I agree, yet we are also stuck with delusional Western "individual rights" ideology, meaning survival of the fittest outcomes are protected by law.

Quote:

NOBODY gets to claim a huge swathe of land these days -

Didn't a certain billionaire (then: Skase?)buy an island some time ago?

Quote:

first it must be available for sale (national parks are not and never will be) and then it must be paid for. Mabo was an isolated situation on a small island where unbroken possession and squatter's rights prevailed.... the rest are bullshit apart from a few isolated cases, and the rules of 'traditional uses' must be clearly laid out so all can use national parks etc without interference.

Yes.

Quote:

I have no problem with natives using our national parks for their traditional pursuits such as yabbying etc and the occasional genuine solstice thing or whatever that never happens every day ... everyone else also has the right to use those national parks..... without interference, let alone threats or violence from ANYONE - and that includes government. Be careful what you ask for... you just might get it.

Wake up.

Well, you are entitled to address others as well as me...

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:22pm

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:02am:

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:34am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:30am:

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:18am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:02am:

The Voice has SFA to do with Native title.

There is more to lose with a race based voice to parliament enshrined in the Constitution which represents all Australians.

So who's having a rant?

Exactly....The Voice has SFA to do with Native title so why is Bobby posting bullshit....You are actually supporting my argument with your rant mate!!!

:) :) :)

Only a very small part. ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:26pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:31am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:30am:

Booby it's not the next to happen.... that is already happening now!!! .... several examples of it have been posted across this forum before.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:33pm

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:09am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:58am:

Any law that gives special privileges to one group is not a legal law under our system of government based on the rules of law.

They can make laws .... but they don't need to nor should they entrench a body into the constitution to do that. ;D

And the Native Title Act & claims granted are causing riffs between Aboriginals & non-aboriginals where National Parks & beach access & foreshores in populous areas are closed off to non-Aboriginal residents & visitors.

The Voice will only go on to worsen that sort of occurrence ..... it will be divisive & racially discriminative.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:34pm

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:14am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:04am:

You have no idea mate....Remain stupid!!!

::) ::) ::)

Never try to reason the prejudice out of a man. It was not reasoned into him, and cannot be reasoned out.
Sydney Smith (1771 - 1845)

Nahhhh ... you're the one with no idea dickhead.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:43pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:41am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:58am:

It is interesting the High Court confirmed 'land rights', instead of confirming the right of everyone to a home.

Disappeared ? FFS you wanker I don't have to sit here all day responding to you repetitious shyte about a GAP.

As I've said to you before the gap is the vacuum between your ears.

In 60 years & hundreds of billions of dollars spent ... people/experts ... all on a higher pay grade than I've ever been on have been working out schemes & programs, having enquiries, implementing strategies....... that to this day still fail to remedy the situation.

I can see that it should be a 2 way street ... but it never is .... the luvvies & bleeding hearts won't allow it ....

they want to preserve Aboriginals as primitives in a National Zoo.

Self loathing, guilt tripping, patronising, mollycoddling & for ever pandering & making excuses.

You go close to fitting that bill.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:46pm

Care to cite that law?

It's the underpinning of ALL law that in order to be a proper law it must apply equally to all under our system of law and thus our constitution as derived from Magna Carta (as revised over the years). equal treatment under the law is a basic requirement of valid law and is part of the oath of office of a judge etc... that they will treat all equally under the law....

It follows therefrom that law/legislation/regulation itself must abide by the rule of law or not be valid under law.

I know that's hard for some to understand.... put simply no government of any kind and no court can create a law or interpretation of such that does not treat all equally. Land claims/native title do not treat all equally as required, and again, what would be your reaction if that was applied to a strip mining conglomerate and not your pet natives? Still feel the same? Special interest group should always prevail in your idea of law?

Now then - MY land claims...... Australian Hotel Inverell anyone? Family land claim... along with massive swathes of New England and Hunter regions and so forth and down the Orana, some of Melbadishu etc....... you can keep the hot and dry stuff ...

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:46pm

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:27pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:19pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:16pm:

I give up trying to explain common law to a complete dickheads like you and Bobby....Get mummy to explain it to you idiot!!!

::) ::) ::)

Our law comes from parliaments and courts. Parliaments make legislation while courts make common law. Parliaments and courts make both private and public law.

::) ::) ::)

Link to explain common law....
https://austlii.community/foswiki/ACTLawHbk/OurLegalSystem#:~:text=Common%20law%20and%20the%20courts,decisions%20made%20in%20similar%20cases.

You couldn't shred a kleenex tissue ... you wanker self praise is no recommendation.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:50pm

Try again - it is the duty and responsibility of government to properly codify and define what 'land rights' actually mean and to apply and enforce those so that they apply to reality and to all equally as required by law. You cannot escape that.

Until government actually does that all land claims remain in limbo..... but you wouldn't know that....

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:53pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:30pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:01pm:

There is no equation between saying something won't close a gap and offering a solution that will close the gap.

If I say that a rock to the head will not close a broken dam, I have no need to offer an alternative.

Flawed analogy: there is no relationship ("equation") between a KO and repairing a dam, though a rock correctly placed may close the dam.

[quote]Round 'em all up - sort out this land claims nonsense once and for all,

give 'em a Homeland, Aborassic Park and Gondwanamo Bay, and shift all land claims to one spot that they can enjoy as a self-funding and self-regulated State under the Commonwealth.

Apartheid.

Quote:

get 'em all in one place and sort the good from the bad and point left or right as they pass by the gatekeeper...

Racist.

[/quote]

Racist ... that's bs.

Crucifixion ... yes... good ... out the door line on the left one cross each.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9knToyK-wUs&ab_channel=Weidmoo

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 2:08pm

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:43pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:41am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:58am:

It is interesting the High Court confirmed 'land rights', instead of confirming the right of everyone to a home.

Disappeared ? FFS you wanker I don't have to sit here all day responding to you repetitious shyte about a GAP.

..

proving yourself to be the ultimate example of a "deplorable": even the Nats are insisting the Yes supporters explain how the voice will close the gap.

Quote:

As I've said to you before the gap is the vacuum between your ears.

In 60 years & hundreds of billions of dollars spent ... people/experts ... all on a higher pay grade than I've ever been on have been working out schemes & programs, having enquiries, implementing strategies....... that to this day still fail to remedy the situation.

I can see that it should be a 2 way street ...

Wow.....getting that out of you - is like extracting water from a stone...

Quote:

but it never is .... the luvvies & bleeding hearts won't allow it ....

Rather the ideologues like John Howard who cancelled the CDEP won't allow it.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14427591.1993.9686379

The success of CDEP is dependent on these organisations which provide culturally appropriate employment, which includes the CDEP scheme. A recent review (note: in 2011) of the CDEP scheme indicated that 71% of Aboriginal communities surveyed considered that CDEP was helpful in meeting the goals of the community and 82% considered that community members were better off under the scheme

Quote:

they want to preserve Aboriginals as primitives in a National Zoo.

There will always be some cultural warriors in any culture.

Quote:

Self loathing, guilt tripping, patronising, mollycoddling & for ever pandering & making excuses.

..and John Howard's deplorable neoliberal market ideology.

Quote:

You go close to fitting that bill.

feel free to show how I fit that bill (even closely).

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by philperth2010 on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 2:27pm

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:46pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:27pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:19pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:16pm:

I give up trying to explain common law to a complete dickheads like you and Bobby....Get mummy to explain it to you idiot!!!

::) ::) ::)

Our law comes from parliaments and courts. Parliaments make legislation while courts make common law. Parliaments and courts make both private and public law.

::) ::) ::)

Link to explain common law....
https://austlii.community/foswiki/ACTLawHbk/OurLegalSystem#:~:text=Common%20law%20and%20the%20courts,decisions%20made%20in%20similar%20cases.

You couldn't shred a kleenex tissue ... you wanker self praise is no recommendation.

Is that all you have to offer any debate....Why is it self praise to point out basic facts to imbeciles....I am only tying to inform the debate and educate dickheads like you!!!

:) :) :)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by philperth2010 on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 2:38pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:50pm:

Land Rights and Native Title are already established and enshrined in common law according to Constitutional powers given to Judges and Courts across Australia....The courts have the power to make decisions on Indiginous rights....Which native title claims remain in limbo mate....Can you support that claim???

Quote:

Land rights usually comprise a grant of freehold or perpetual lease title to Indigenous Australians. By contrast, native title arises as a result of recognition, under Australian common law, of pre-existing Indigenous rights and interests according to traditional laws and customs.

::) ::) ::)

https://www.ag.gov.au/legal-system/native-title#:~:text=Native%20title%20and%20land%20rights&text=Land%20rights%20usually%20comprise%20a,to%20traditional%20laws%20and%20customs.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 3:08pm

You clearly don't know what codify means - a loose agglomeration of findings does not make a reliable and consistent body - therefore it is far too wide open to all kinds of claims based on very little or even nothing - and so must be properly codified and pass into legislation and have a set of rules and guidelines installed.

Furthermore its legitimacy must be tested under the new laws of the land that do not permit claiming land simply by saying your ancestors walked across it... at some point they had to buy it to own it... that is the law. Gifting of a house block is one thing - there is no underpinning for gifting massive swathes of land on the basis of past use by people no longer here and especially when that use was - as said - profligate and now long out-dated and not in use.

At the moment 'native title' is a ramshackle collection - not a contiguous body - and it must be put to the tests of reason and simple reality in the modern world and its limitations clearly laid down.

None of the coastal Aborigines, for example, go out to hunt a roo for dinner in the traditional way. Some small groups wandering the vast spaces Outback may do so, so that traditional usage continues and has never been interfered with. What also must not be interfered with is the free right of all others to use of public land.

Your not wanting that and wanting to restrict access to a chosen few is not sufficient reason to block anyone's usage.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 4:44pm

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:26pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:31am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 9:30am:

Bobby it's not the next to happen.... that is already happening now!!! .... several examples of it have been posted across this forum before.

Give them nothing and take back what they've already taken.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 4:46pm

Phil,

Quote:

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 4:50pm

At the very least with this beachfront bullshit they must be forced to give a decent right of way and not block people from using the beaches.

Again - all claims must be carefully scrutinised and it looks like a real overhaul of the way this is done must take place, so that ALL stakeholders get a fair say and a fair resolution. We all know what this is about - be as obstructive and nasty as you can be while the stupid white person is silly enough to let them get away with it.

This has to stop - those days are gone and it's time they stepped into the future.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 5:01pm

"The Constitution is the document which sets out the bases on which Australian society is regulated by determining the scope of permissible laws."

For the slow - that 'permissible' is the meat here... it shows what I have said over and over here - that the making of laws itself if bound by rules - the primary of which is the absolute requirement that all must be treated equally under any law.

Laws that do not abide by that simple requirement are not permissible... even though they may have been passed into legislation, regulation or common usage, and it is therefore the absolute and inalienable right of the people aggrieved by such misuse of law to overturn and/or overthrow it.

Such a process should be simple and straight forward, and involve a simple rendition of facts - not some outlandish and costly (so that the ordinary punter can never challenge wrong by the well-off or the government) legal challenge through a court. A properly constituted tribunal and a fee of $25 should suffice... same as with defamation etc, so as to allow access to justice by the ordinary person.

One hearing of a non-permissible law in action should suffice for it to be struck down.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 5:02pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 4:50pm:

see this -

If you vote NO to "The Voice" you are a racist bigot! Where have we heard this before?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd7J4lNW4-M

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 6:03pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 2:08pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:43pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:41am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:58am:

It is interesting the High Court confirmed 'land rights', instead of confirming the right of everyone to a home.

Disappeared ? FFS you wanker I don't have to sit here all day responding to you repetitious shyte about a GAP.

..

proving yourself to be the ultimate example of a "deplorable": even the Nats are insisting the Yes supporters explain how the voice will close the gap.

[quote]As I've said to you before the gap is the vacuum between your ears.

In 60 years & hundreds of billions of dollars spent ... people/experts ... all on a higher pay grade than I've ever been on have been working out schemes & programs, having enquiries, implementing strategies....... that to this day still fail to remedy the situation.

I can see that it should be a 2 way street ...

Wow.....getting that out of you - is like extracting water from a stone...

Quote:

but it never is .... the luvvies & bleeding hearts won't allow it ....

they want to preserve Aboriginals as primitives in a National Zoo.

There will always be some cultural warriors in any culture.

Quote:

Self loathing, guilt tripping, patronising, mollycoddling & for ever pandering & making excuses.

..and John Howard's deplorable neoliberal market ideology.

Quote:

You go close to fitting that bill.

feel free to show how I fit that bill (even closely). [/quote]

Well dipstick .... the voice will not close your gap.

If you so full of answers why haven't you solved the problem?.... as I said there have 60 yeaars of people & experts higher than yours or my pay grades that haven't done it.

When are you stepping up to the plate Casey?

Beyond that you're just a prattling ideologue.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 6:06pm

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 2:27pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:46pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:27pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:19pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 12:16pm:

I give up trying to explain common law to a complete dickheads like you and Bobby....Get mummy to explain it to you idiot!!!

::) ::) ::)

Our law comes from parliaments and courts. Parliaments make legislation while courts make common law. Parliaments and courts make both private and public law.

::) ::) ::)

Link to explain common law....
https://austlii.community/foswiki/ACTLawHbk/OurLegalSystem#:~:text=Common%20law%20and%20the%20courts,decisions%20made%20in%20similar%20cases.

You couldn't shred a kleenex tissue ... you wanker self praise is no recommendation.

Is that all you have to offer any debate....Why is it self praise to point out basic facts to imbeciles....I am only tying to inform the debate and educate dickheads like you!!!

:) :) :)

You're doing a shyte job in both cases .... why?

Because you actually know phucall without Google.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 6:12pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 5:02pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 4:50pm:

see this -

If you vote NO to "The Voice" you are a racist bigot! Where have we heard this before?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd7J4lNW4-M

Happy to be a bigot then.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 6:29pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 6:12pm:

Happy to be a bigot then.

I'm not -

the Abbos are the racists and bigots.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Jovial Monk on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 6:57pm

Satan makes you a racist, bigot and queer, does he?

A post headed “The Jigaboos are back in charge” is racist and bigoted!

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 7:27pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 6:57pm:

Satan makes you a racist, bigot and queer, does he?

A post headed “The Jigaboos are back in charge” is racist and bigoted!

Well - do you want the Jigaboos back in charge?

I don't.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Xavier on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 7:53pm

80 years from now.

People will be walking around Uluru like Moslems around the Stone of Mecca. ;D

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 8:19pm

Jasin wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 7:53pm:

80 years from now.

People will be walking around Uluru like Moslems around the Stone of Mecca. ;D

I hope we build a road up to the top of Ayers Rock
and have a nice car park on top - that will show progress to the Abbos.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Xavier on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 8:25pm

White people are just jealous that they don't have one of their own. ;D

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 8:48pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 6:29pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 6:12pm:

Happy to be a bigot then.

I'm not -

the Abbos are the racists and bigots.

A bigot by their standards is no bigot at all.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 8:55pm

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 6:03pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 2:08pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:43pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:41am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:58am:

It is interesting the High Court confirmed 'land rights', instead of confirming the right of everyone to a home.

Disappeared ? FFS you wanker I don't have to sit here all day responding to you repetitious shyte about a GAP.

Wow.....getting that out of you - is like extracting water from a stone...

[quote] but it never is .... the luvvies & bleeding hearts won't allow it ....

they want to preserve Aboriginals as primitives in a National Zoo.

There will always be some cultural warriors in any culture.

Quote:

Self loathing, guilt tripping, patronising, mollycoddling & for ever pandering & making excuses.

..and John Howard's deplorable neoliberal market ideology.

Quote:

You go close to fitting that bill.

feel free to show how I fit that bill (even closely). [/quote]

Well dipstick .... the voice will not close your gap.[/quote]

Are you dementing? That has been my argument all along.

Quote:

So tell us what WILL close the gap.

You ARE dementing, or too ignorant/lazy to even read the words you quoted above:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14427591.1993.9686379

What it means to get off sit‐down money: Community development employment projects (CDEP)
Heather Jensen
Pages 12-18 | Published online: 26 Sep 2011

Note: this study was made after PM Howard, following inadequate Thatcherite orthodoxy, began dismantling the CDEP schemes, to the dismay of its participants.

Quote:

If you so full of answers why haven't you solved the problem?.... as I said there have 60 yeaars of people & experts higher than yours or my pay grades that haven't done it.

Er.. I haven't been PM; and unfortunately economics is a contested field, not a science.

Hence the CDEP was born in the late Keynesian 'welfare state' era (in 1977), but cancelled (in the 2000s) in the current Thatcherite neoliberal era.

Quote:

When are you stepping up to the plate Casey?

Beyond that you're just a prattling ideologue.

At least I'm pointing to the real problems behind the gap, rather than just brainlessly asserting there is no gap, or content with saying "it's their fault".

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 8^th, 2023 at 8:46am

Again - there is no equation between saying some idea will not work to resolve the problems, and offering an answer. I know I've held you up on that, too - but the difference is you claim to know the answers, yet all of your solutions have been tried and tried to no avail.

The only answer is mass deportation to their own Homeland for resettlement and re-introduction into their old ways of life without any input from anyone else, or permanent detention in Aborassic Park and/or close detention in Gondwanamo Bay for the true recalcitrants. Separate but equal, no, and separation will make them free, no?

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Apr 8^th, 2023 at 11:03am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 8^th, 2023 at 8:46am:

I will ask the same question of you...are you dementing?

Or merely incapable of comprehension?

"A recent review (note: in 2011) of the CDEP scheme indicated that 71% of Aboriginal communities surveyed considered that CDEP was helpful in meeting the goals of the community and 82% considered that community members were better off under the scheme".

including a reduction in crime and alcohism:

" What it means to get off sit‐down money: Community development employment projects (CDEP)
Heather Jensen
Pages 12-18 | Published online: 26 Sep 2011

Quote:

The only answer is mass deportation to their own Homeland for resettlement and re-introduction into their old ways of life without any input from anyone else, or permanent detention in Aborassic Park and/or close detention in Gondwanamo Bay for the true recalcitrants. Separate but equal, no, and separation will make them free, no?

No. "82% of CDEP participants considered the communities were better off under the CDEP."

including a reduction in crime and alcoholism, following a decrease in welfare dependency (aka sit-down money)

What part of that don't you understand?

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by buzzanddidj on Apr 8^th, 2023 at 3:23pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 7:47am:

We already lost the right to visit Ayers Rock
- what else will we lose after a voice is passed ?

The only person who may have told you that - knowing you believe all of his utterances - is one Sir Loose Screw.
FYI, the claim is 100% BULLSH!T !

Initial moves to stop tourists clamouring all over the monolith causing erosion, shitt!ng all over it - and leaving used toilet paper, loaded disposable nappies and general picnic rubbish in their wake, was called for by the local tourist authority.
The move was supported by Uluru's owners.

Andrew Simpson, the general manager of a tour company run by Indigenous people in Alice Springs, says climbing should be outlawed because it is dangerous and people have been killed attempting it.

"And then there are the environmental issues of the rubbish and people defecating on top of the rock and polluting the waterholes around Uluru," Mr Simpson said.

"Basically it can take you quite a while to get up there and there are no facilities up there.

"So when nature calls you must do what nature needs you to do."

He says "that in itself is big enough reason to consider closing the climb".

The Northern Territory Chief Minister, Paul Henderson, says he is disgusted that tourists are going to the toilet on top of Uluru.

A 2016 survey found 72% of visitors understood the “please don’t climb” message before their arrival, and 91% said they wouldn’t climb.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/nov/01/uluru-climb-banned-from-october-2019-after-historic-vote

.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Apr 8^th, 2023 at 3:43pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 8^th, 2023 at 3:23pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 7:47am:

We already lost the right to visit Ayers Rock
- what else will we lose after a voice is passed ?

Interesting.

So a compromise would be:

1. No extraneous goods/materials other than sensible clothing and a water bottle to be carried onto the rock.

2. Heavy fines for defaecation on the rock; which would ensure climbers organized their bowels movements before the climb.

3. Proper provision of suitable toilet facilities around the rock.

Obviously this would discriminate against certain tourists, but so be it.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Apr 8^th, 2023 at 7:29pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 8:55pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 6:03pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 2:08pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:43pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:41am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:58am:

It is interesting the High Court confirmed 'land rights', instead of confirming the right of everyone to a home.

Disappeared ? FFS you wanker I don't have to sit here all day responding to you repetitious shyte about a GAP.

Wow.....getting that out of you - is like extracting water from a stone...

[quote] but it never is .... the luvvies & bleeding hearts won't allow it ....

There will always be some cultural warriors in any culture.

Quote:

Self loathing, guilt tripping, patronising, mollycoddling & for ever pandering & making excuses.

..and John Howard's deplorable neoliberal market ideology.

Quote:

You go close to fitting that bill.

feel free to show how I fit that bill (even closely). [/quote]

Well dipstick .... the voice will not close your gap.[/quote]

Are you dementing? That has been my argument all along.

Quote:

So tell us what WILL close the gap.

If you so full of answers why haven't you solved the problem?.... as I said there have 60 yeaars of people & experts higher than yours or my pay grades that haven't done it.

When are you stepping up to the plate Casey?

Beyond that you're just a prattling ideologue.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 8^th, 2023 at 8:05pm

Gnads wrote on Apr 8^th, 2023 at 7:29pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 8:55pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 6:03pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 2:08pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:43pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:41am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:58am:

It is interesting the High Court confirmed 'land rights', instead of confirming the right of everyone to a home.

Disappeared ? FFS you wanker I don't have to sit here all day responding to you repetitious shyte about a GAP.

Wow.....getting that out of you - is like extracting water from a stone...

[quote] but it never is .... the luvvies & bleeding hearts won't allow it ....

There will always be some cultural warriors in any culture.

[quote]Self loathing, guilt tripping, patronising, mollycoddling & for ever pandering & making excuses.

..and John Howard's deplorable neoliberal market ideology.

Quote:

You go close to fitting that bill.

feel free to show how I fit that bill (even closely). [/quote]

Well dipstick .... the voice will not close your gap.[/quote]

Are you dementing? That has been my argument all along.

Quote:

So tell us what WILL close the gap.

If you so full of answers why haven't you solved the problem?.... as I said there have 60 yeaars of people & experts higher than yours or my pay grades that haven't done it.

When are you stepping up to the plate Casey?

Beyond that you're just a prattling ideologue.

At least I'm pointing to the real problems behind the gap, rather than just brainlessly asserting there is no gap, or content with saying "it's their fault". [/quote]

Just phuk off .. you actually have nothing

& you call me demented? ;D[/quote]

Not me - I'm just adding to the quote upon quote so nobody can read it......

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 8^th, 2023 at 8:10pm

Ah - Aborassic Park - the Zoo.... only the True Recalcitrants go to Gondwanamo Bay for re-education and possible........ re-settlement...

The Commo Pale Ass Chick in Queenslund has already given them a huge swathe up north in Cape York - where they once mooted the idea of a rocket launch facility... rough and steamy and filled with snakes and crocs... be ideal for Aborassic Park...

If the governments keep giving them mega chunks of land there will be none left... now - are they earning a living out of it or still got their hands out for the handouts?

Look down - idyllic innit? Apart from the snakes and wobegongs and drop bears... crocs .. lift the ban on hunting them and it's handbags galore... self-funding Indigenous... there's a first for everything.

Aborassic_Park_004.jpg (147 KB | 10 )

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Valkie on Apr 9^th, 2023 at 7:25am

Once given land back.Said aboriginals whe were granted said land should be immediately cut off from any pension, welfare or additional aid.

Its only fair, you got the land, make it work.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Apr 9^th, 2023 at 9:26am

Gnads wrote on Apr 8^th, 2023 at 7:29pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 8:55pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 6:03pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 2:08pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:43pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:41am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:58am:

It is interesting the High Court confirmed 'land rights', instead of confirming the right of everyone to a home.

Disappeared ? FFS you wanker I don't have to sit here all day responding to you repetitious shyte about a GAP.

Wow.....getting that out of you - is like extracting water from a stone...

[quote] but it never is .... the luvvies & bleeding hearts won't allow it ....

There will always be some cultural warriors in any culture.

[quote]Self loathing, guilt tripping, patronising, mollycoddling & for ever pandering & making excuses.

..and John Howard's deplorable neoliberal market ideology.

Quote:

You go close to fitting that bill.

feel free to show how I fit that bill (even closely). [/quote]

Well dipstick .... the voice will not close your gap.[/quote]

Are you dementing? That has been my argument all along.

Quote:

So tell us what WILL close the gap.

If you so full of answers why haven't you solved the problem?.... as I said there have 60 yeaars of people & experts higher than yours or my pay grades that haven't done it.

When are you stepping up to the plate Casey?

Beyond that you're just a prattling ideologue.

At least I'm pointing to the real problems behind the gap, rather than just brainlessly asserting there is no gap, or content with saying "it's their fault". [/quote]

Just phuk off .. you actually have nothing[/quote]

Er .....the study I pointed to, which you quoted but are

1. too lazy to read and comment on
2. incapable of reading it

Quote:

& you call me demented? ;D

Ignoring quoted material in a debate may be a sign of dementia, though more likely you, like Boris, are just another particularly nasty example of a 'RW deplorable'.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Apr 9^th, 2023 at 9:34am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 8^th, 2023 at 8:05pm:

Not me - I'm just adding to the quote upon quote so nobody can read it......

So rather than commenting on the essential points re the voice and the gap, eg

A recent review (note: in 2011) of the CDEP scheme indicated that 71% of Aboriginal communities surveyed considered that CDEP was helpful in meeting the goals of the community and 82% considered that community members were better off under the scheme

... you are content to merely obfuscate with "...so nobody can read it".

"Deplorable"..

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 9^th, 2023 at 7:12pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 9^th, 2023 at 9:26am:

Gnads wrote on Apr 8^th, 2023 at 7:29pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 8:55pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 6:03pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 2:08pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 1:43pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 11:41am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:58am:

It is interesting the High Court confirmed 'land rights', instead of confirming the right of everyone to a home.

Disappeared ? FFS you wanker I don't have to sit here all day responding to you repetitious shyte about a GAP.

Wow.....getting that out of you - is like extracting water from a stone...

[quote] but it never is .... the luvvies & bleeding hearts won't allow it ....

There will always be some cultural warriors in any culture.

[quote]Self loathing, guilt tripping, patronising, mollycoddling & for ever pandering & making excuses.

..and John Howard's deplorable neoliberal market ideology.

[quote]You go close to fitting that bill.

feel free to show how I fit that bill (even closely). [/quote]

Well dipstick .... the voice will not close your gap.[/quote]

Are you dementing? That has been my argument all along.

Quote:

So tell us what WILL close the gap.

If you so full of answers why haven't you solved the problem?.... as I said there have 60 yeaars of people & experts higher than yours or my pay grades that haven't done it.

When are you stepping up to the plate Casey?

Beyond that you're just a prattling ideologue.

At least I'm pointing to the real problems behind the gap, rather than just brainlessly asserting there is no gap, or content with saying "it's their fault". [/quote]

Just phuk off .. you actually have nothing[/quote]

Er .....the study I pointed to, which you quoted but are

1. too lazy to read and comment on
2. incapable of reading it

Quote:

& you call me demented? ;D

Ignoring quoted material in a debate may be a sign of dementia, though more likely you, like Boris, are just another particularly nasty example of a 'RW deplorable'.
[/quote]

Just adding to the drift of the grift here.....

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Apr 10^th, 2023 at 11:03am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 9^th, 2023 at 7:12pm:

Just adding to the drift of the grift here.....

People like Boris and Gnads - who are content to say "f**ck off", after being shown scholarly articles examining the disaster of welfare dependency - deserve contempt.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 10^th, 2023 at 1:41pm

Well - they're not forcing anyone into welfare dependency, are they? They're always the first commenting on it being a bad thing.

Now get out there and force them Kaffirs to get to work... and BTW .... there has been a massive intrusion of healthcare into the Terr'uh'tree - will this one be called an Intervention and vilified as well? If it was raining silver bricks they'd be whining it isn't gold...... but they'd demand royalties anyway ......

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Apr 10^th, 2023 at 2:52pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 10^th, 2023 at 1:41pm:

Well - they're not forcing anyone into welfare dependency, are they? They're always the first commenting on it being a bad thing.

They are complicit in a system which forces welfare dependency on those who are unable to find work in the market-based economy.

Their basic thesis is: "abos are no-hopers", and when it's pointed out that life is more complicated than that, they resort to ad hominems.

Interestingly, FD actually agreed with my proposition that welfare dependency IS enforced on, not "chosen" by, the long-term unemployed, in the thread he started under the heading: 'the wrong referendum':

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1680909737/24

#10

TGD: "So you deny the obvious fact welfare dependency is forced onto people, not 'chosen' by them?"

FD: "I actually agree with you, at least in this context."

But apparently FD soon realized this stance was incompatible with his "freedom" ideology, because there- after he back-tracked furiously.

His last reply to me (sneakily, at the bottom of #38, in a reply to another poster) yesterday was an outright lie, when he claimed he had responded (to my post #36) "many times".

And though he has appeared again on Ozpol today, he dared not visit his own "wrong referendum" thread.... out of sheer guilty conscience, no doubt.

That's slippery FD for all to see, again, in full flight.

Quote:

Now get out there and force them Kaffirs to get to work... and BTW ....

there has been a massive intrusion of healthcare into the Terr'uh'tree - will this one be called an Intervention and vilified as well? If it was raining silver bricks they'd be whining it isn't gold...... but they'd demand royalties anyway ......

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:20pm

What does the guest of Andrew Bolt say?

Donald Thomas Brash (born 24 September 1940) is a former New Zealand politician who was Leader of the Opposition and leader of the New Zealand National Party from October 2003 to November 2006, and briefly the leader of ACT New Zealand from April to November 2011.

VIDEO 6 minutes:

https://www.facebook.com/SkyNewsAustralia/videos/190369860426166/

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by John Smith on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:39pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:20pm:

What does the guest of Andrew Bolt say?

Who gives a bugger what any guest of his says?

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:47pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 10^th, 2023 at 2:52pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 10^th, 2023 at 1:41pm:

Well - they're not forcing anyone into welfare dependency, are they? They're always the first commenting on it being a bad thing.

Now get out there and force them Kaffirs to get to work... and BTW ....

It might pay you to have a chat with FD, and see why he agreed with me (initially, then ran away as fast as he could..) that welfare, not work, is forced on people; and that people choose paid work, not welfare, aka "sit down money"...the contempt expressed in that phrase alone, is palpable.

[quote]there has been a massive intrusion of healthcare into the Terr'uh'tree - will this one be called an Intervention and vilified as well? If it was raining silver bricks they'd be whining it isn't gold...... but they'd demand royalties anyway ......

Addressed in another thread; primary health care practiced in functional communities with self-aware healthy lifestyle choices, is much more effective/preventative than secondary health care to pick up the pieces in dysfunctional, unhealthy communities, as at present.[/quote]

Well a Hoper would move to where jobs are, train for them, apply for them, make a real effort, and not be a recalcitrant and hold out for a better deal for doing nothing... so I guess your word 'no-hoper' is apt.

Lots of other people did it... many still do in a diminishing jobs market.

" primary health care practiced in functional communities with self-aware healthy lifestyle choices, is much more effective/preventative than secondary health care to pick up the pieces in dysfunctional, unhealthy communities, as at present."

Well - you'll have to force that on them too, cut down the booze and the violence and other stuff and you'll live longer...

The issue here isn't the current healthcare - it is that there has been, over the last few days, a fresh influx of healthcare workers to lift them by their bootstraps again... teach 'em the evils of alcohol and petrol and the dangers of prison from being an arsehole....

Another imposition on the budget of Fed and Terr'uh'tree, given that they already have the least cost effective and dollar intensieve healthcare in the world with private flights and everything else laid on and first class treatment at the pick-up of a phone - I'm not going to post it again for you all - try to keep up.

Better to move 'em all in and put 'em in Aborassic Park etc.... have a single health facility right there with armed guards ready to fight to keep the peace. 8-)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:50pm

John Smith wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:20pm:

What does the guest of Andrew Bolt say?

Who gives a bugger what any guest of his says?

he says what I say -

more to lose with a voice

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Xavier on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:56pm

It's the American Media's Voice (via it's ALP Media lapdogs)
v
The already established Agency's Political voice.

What the Media is doing to this country is distabilising it.
Simple as that.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:57pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:20pm:

What does the guest of Andrew Bolt say?

Who gives a bugger what any guest of his says?

he says what I say -

more to lose with a voice

If the Nu Zulland experience is anything go by, best you arm yourselves for true and be ready to defend your home and hearth.... meanwhile the steady encroachment goes on and on with more demands and even more stupid governments raising their arses for the plucking without so much as a reference to the majority stakeholders - again... Beerwah....

The Battle of Beerwah..... I hope the Queenslunders take up the challenge this time... set that stupid government right on who they work for and who they hold public lands in trust for.... and it's not some mythical custodians who work for themselves only ....

This civil war is about to begin on several fronts and I'm not prepared.... nor are you...many of you choose to put blinkers on the moment you wake up in the morning while your Rome burns.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 8:36pm

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 8:37pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:57pm:

Albo plays the fiddle while Australia burns.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by John Smith on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 8:39pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:20pm:

What does the guest of Andrew Bolt say?

Who gives a bugger what any guest of his says?

he says what I say -

more to lose with a voice

What part of my question was difficult for you

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 9:05pm

John Smith wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 8:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:20pm:

What does the guest of Andrew Bolt say?

Who gives a bugger what any guest of his says?

he says what I say -

more to lose with a voice

What part of my question was difficult for you

You don't care that we have more to lose.

You're not an Abbo are you?

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by AusGeoff on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 6:09am

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 11:54am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:47pm:

Well a Hoper would move to where jobs are, train for them, apply for them, make a real effort, and not be a recalcitrant and hold out for a better deal for doing nothing... so I guess your word 'no-hoper' is apt.

So...you haven't had that chat with FD yet......"welfare dependency is enforced, not chosen".

If you are spending what little money you have on grog, committing crime . etc., you won't be capable of "moving to where the jobs are", much less capable of holding down a job....

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 6:37pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 11:54am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:47pm:

Rubbish ... you parrot.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by John Smith on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 6:40pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 9:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 8:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:20pm:

What does the guest of Andrew Bolt say?

Who gives a bugger what any guest of his says?

he says what I say -

more to lose with a voice

What part of my question was difficult for you

You don't care that we have more to lose.

You're not an Abbo are you?

You have no brain to lose so you are safe

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 6:43pm

AusGeoff wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 6:09am:

... Caution! this is not a stealth glitch test run which may leave radioactive traces on your screen - this is a genuine glitch.....

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 7:35pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 6:43pm:

AusGeoff wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 6:09am:

https://i.postimg.cc/02nR2FMV/Screenshot-2023-04-12-at-05-29-12-aa89edcae7403c61ec45f4888f299a85abd6c52e-webp-WEBP-Image-1294-7.png

... Caution! this is not a stealth glitch test run which may leave radioactive traces on your screen - this is a genuine glitch.....

That link doesn't work.

forgiven

namaste

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 7:44pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 7:35pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 6:43pm:

AusGeoff wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 6:09am:

https://i.postimg.cc/02nR2FMV/Screenshot-2023-04-12-at-05-29-12-aa89edcae7403c61ec45f4888f299a85abd6c52e-webp-WEBP-Image-1294-7.png

... Caution! this is not a stealth glitch test run which may leave radioactive traces on your screen - this is a genuine glitch.....

That link doesn't work.

forgiven

namaste

It's Ausgeoff's - not mine...

Anyway - we've lost Mt Beerwah, but we still hold the pub and the whorehouse, so we've got 'em on the ropes...

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 8:21pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 7:44pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 7:35pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 6:43pm:

AusGeoff wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 6:09am:

https://i.postimg.cc/02nR2FMV/Screenshot-2023-04-12-at-05-29-12-aa89edcae7403c61ec45f4888f299a85abd6c52e-webp-WEBP-Image-1294-7.png

... Caution! this is not a stealth glitch test run which may leave radioactive traces on your screen - this is a genuine glitch.....

That link doesn't work.

forgiven

namaste

It's Ausgeoff's - not mine...

Anyway - we've lost Mt Beerwah, but we still hold the pub and the whorehouse, so we've got 'em on the ropes...

Just like our NZ friends lost Mt Eden right in the middle of Auckland.

We have much more to lose if lisping Albo's lunatic referendum obtains a yes vote.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 10:05pm

Gnads wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 6:37pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 11:54am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 6:47pm:

Rubbish ... you parrot.

er...welfare is a poverty level safety net, for people who can't find jobs, hence not "chosen".

1+1 = 2 (too advanced for you, no doubt)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by AusGeoff on Jul 3^rd, 2023 at 9:00pm

And so the rot continues. Aboriginals continue to
force the abolishment of place names that have a
special historical significance to 97% of our
population.

The names of some of Byron Bay's most famous
landmarks in northern New South Wales could soon
be changed to traditional Aboriginal names.

Under proposals by The NSW National Parks and
Wildlife Service, Cape Byron would be renamed
"Walgun" and Julian Rocks would be "Nguthungulli".

Byron Shire Council has also been approached by a
volunteer group for a reserve informally known as
Weir Park or Pool Park, to be given the Aboriginal
place name of "Piccabeen"

"Reawakening Aboriginal place names helps to
preserve cultural traditions and provide a sense of
belonging for people from all walks of life," NSW
Minister for Aboriginal Affairs and Treaty David Harris
said.

—All walks of life? WTF? Not my life! >:(

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Laugh till you cry on Jul 3^rd, 2023 at 9:05pm

AusGeoff wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2023 at 9:00pm:

Those who like UK names can get all they want by visiting the UK.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by John Smith on Jul 3^rd, 2023 at 10:21pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:06am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:02am:

Exactly....The Voice has SFA to do with Native title so why is Bobby posting bullshit....You are actually supporting my argument with your rant mate!!!

:) :) :)

I'm not posting bullshit.

What else do we stand to lose if the Voice vote is yes -
you tell us?

Christ you're a moron.

How typical of the racists and bigots on here, crying that giving someone else a voice will lose them something they never had. :D

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by John Smith on Jul 3^rd, 2023 at 10:23pm

AusGeoff wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2023 at 9:00pm:

Does changing the name mean you'll stop visiting? If so I'm all for it.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:02am

John Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2023 at 10:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:06am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:02am:

Exactly....The Voice has SFA to do with Native title so why is Bobby posting bullshit....You are actually supporting my argument with your rant mate!!!

:) :) :)

I'm not posting bullshit.

What else do we stand to lose if the Voice vote is yes -
you tell us?

Christ you're a moron.

How typical of the racists and bigots on here, crying that giving someone else a voice will lose them something they never had. :D

How moronic is it that lefty numbskulls can't understand that Aboriginal Australians already have more than ample "Voices" .... yes plural voices - multiple voices?

And why would they want the Constitution amended based on race?

Quote:

At 30 June 2022, there were 3,521 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander corporations registered under the CATSI Act, including 243 registered native title bodies corporate.

These are just for QLD - some have been deregistered - some areas locations have multiple Aboriginal Corps for that area.

They are all funded by the taxpayer.

https://register.oric.gov.au/PrintCorporationSearch.aspx?state=QLD

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Heartless Felon on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:22am

AusGeoff wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2023 at 9:00pm:

It will be interesting to see what name the, er, interested groups come up with when they decide to re-name Australia...

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by John Smith on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:23am

Gnads wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:02am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2023 at 10:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:06am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:02am:

Exactly....The Voice has SFA to do with Native title so why is Bobby posting bullshit....You are actually supporting my argument with your rant mate!!!

:) :) :)

I'm not posting bullshit.

What else do we stand to lose if the Voice vote is yes -
you tell us?

Christ you're a moron.

How typical of the racists and bigots on here, crying that giving someone else a voice will lose them something they never had. :D

No they don't. Most of the time aborigines are an excuse to funnel taxpayer money to the hands of their donors or their puppets. No one listens to the aborigines. Those aborigines in govt have mostly sold out, forced to tow the party line over and above any attempt to represent their fellow aborigines.

Who gives a bugger about a constitution? It's a piece of paper with rules set for it's time. It's been changed before and will change again in the future. Bellowing for strict adherence to something written in a previous era is ludicrous, and leads to the sort of stupidity you see from gun lobbyists in the USA or religious nutjobs in the ME. The constitution is there to serve the public, when it ceases doing that it's time to amend it. There is nothing sacred about rules written to suit a particular society. As that society changes, so does the need for the rules to change.

Recognizing aborigines in the constitution is the least we can do given that it was their land. It does no more than that and and these constant scare tactics are just that, bullshit designed to obscure and instill fear. There is nothing the govt can do with the 'voice' in the constitution, that it cannot already do with no 'voice' in the constitution. Your scare tactics are bullshit.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:40am

John Smith wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:23am:

Recognizing aborigines in the constitution is the least we can do given that it was their land. It does no more than that and and these constant scare tactics are just that, bullshit designed to obscure and instill fear. There is nothing the govt can do with the 'voice' in the constitution, that it cannot already do with no 'voice' in the constitution. Your scare tactics are bullshit.

Why should we specifically recognise aborigines in the constitution, when the aborigines are already recognised, through the removal of race-specific sections of the Constitution in the year 1967? Australia was not indigenous land after the 1920s. Heck, we might as well say that Australia was not indigenous land after the 1890s, when the indigenous people were on the verge of dying off.

We are not paying the rent. We taxpayers (well, maybe not so much me) have basically bought the country from the indigenous people. And if there is going to be no change to the way the government works with or without the "Voice to Parliament" in effect, then we might as well ditch the upcoming referendum and start looking at repealing any special benefits indigenous people get.

Personally, I think 36 years after the 1967 referendum should be enough time for a demographic to get their act together. And even if you want to reconsider the 1992 Mabo decision as the starting point for my proposed 36-year leniency period, the year 2028 is only 5 years away. I would be happy for the affirmative action given to indigenous people be done away with by then.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 10:14am

John Smith wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:23am:

Gnads wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:02am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2023 at 10:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:06am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:02am:

Exactly....The Voice has SFA to do with Native title so why is Bobby posting bullshit....You are actually supporting my argument with your rant mate!!!

:) :) :)

I'm not posting bullshit.

What else do we stand to lose if the Voice vote is yes -
you tell us?

Christ you're a moron.

How typical of the racists and bigots on here, crying that giving someone else a voice will lose them something they never had. :D

Perfect example as to why idiots like you shouldn't get a vote.

It's not "the least we can do" ... that's just leftoid wanker emotive guilt ridden bullshyte.

re:highlight - if that's true then why have it in there based solely on race?

You don't try & placate a people by pandering to Constitutional change.

And Albaneses right hand man in the Voice, Thomas Mayo does not believe that bullshit you've just tried to use as a coverup, one iota.

He sees this as a opportunity to grab power & control & a big money spinner in reparations, compensation & control.

Having a nation within a nation & growing fat off that purely based on his race.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Frank on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 2:41pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:23am:

Gnads wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:02am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2023 at 10:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:06am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:02am:

Exactly....The Voice has SFA to do with Native title so why is Bobby posting bullshit....You are actually supporting my argument with your rant mate!!!

:) :) :)

I'm not posting bullshit.

What else do we stand to lose if the Voice vote is yes -
you tell us?

Christ you're a moron.

How typical of the racists and bigots on here, crying that giving someone else a voice will lose them something they never had. :D

So some remote Abos get legless by lunchtime, beat their wives, diddle their nieces and trash their government housing because they are not recognised in the Constitution. ONCE they are written into it, they will change and all will be well.

It's as easy as playing the flute, innit, thickerooni - you blow in one end, move your fingers up and down the holes and that's it!

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 4:25pm

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 2:41pm:

It's a pity the proposal is to write the voice into the constitution, when plain recognition of prior occupation would assist in healing.

In fact, judging by the polls, failure of the Voice vote will take recognition of prior occupation down with it.

Quote:

It's as easy as playing the flute, innit, thickerooni - you blow in one end, move your fingers up and down the holes and that's it!

No, closing the gap will be very hard, given the current gruesome neoliberal NAIRU orthodoxy.

(and what if the parrot is correct?)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Frank on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 5:55pm

Nobody has ever disputed that Abos were here before 1788.

They were just too primitive, fragmented and backward to do anything with even remotely approaching partnership. Even now, the ones you can talk to are the ones that are least Aboriginal. There cannot be a dialogue of equals across a 60,000 years wide cultural, developmental gap.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Mattyfisk on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 8:08pm

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 5:55pm:

Oh, I don't know. Who keeps raising King Knut?

I blame Islam. Who else would come up with a calling card like that?

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 8:13pm

It will never be enough:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW5Nebs3TFA

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by John Smith on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:41pm

Gnads wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 10:14am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:23am:

Gnads wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:02am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2023 at 10:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:06am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:02am:

Exactly....The Voice has SFA to do with Native title so why is Bobby posting bullshit....You are actually supporting my argument with your rant mate!!!

:) :) :)

I'm not posting bullshit.

What else do we stand to lose if the Voice vote is yes -
you tell us?

Christ you're a moron.

How typical of the racists and bigots on here, crying that giving someone else a voice will lose them something they never had. :D

Perfect example as to why idiots like you shouldn't get a vote.

It's not "the least we can do" ... that's just leftoid wanker emotive guilt ridden bullshyte.

re:highlight - if that's true then why have it in there based solely on race?
its a token gesture

You don't try & placate a people by pandering to Constitutional change.
ignoring them hasn't worked for 200 yrs, what makes you think continuing to ignore them will suddenly work?
And Albaneses right hand man in the Voice, Thomas Mayo does not believe that bullshit you've just tried to use as a coverup, one iota.
then he's as deluded as you
He sees this as a opportunity to grab power & control & a big money spinner in reparations, compensation & control.

Having a nation within a nation & growing fat off that purely based on his race.

nationwithina nation ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D stay off the drugs

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by John Smith on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:43pm

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 2:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:23am:

Gnads wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:02am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2023 at 10:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:06am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:02am:

Exactly....The Voice has SFA to do with Native title so why is Bobby posting bullshit....You are actually supporting my argument with your rant mate!!!

:) :) :)

I'm not posting bullshit.

What else do we stand to lose if the Voice vote is yes -
you tell us?

Christ you're a moron.

How typical of the racists and bigots on here, crying that giving someone else a voice will lose them something they never had. :D

I don't think it's possible that you get dumber ... one thing I do know though is that if anyone can, it's you

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 8:51am

John Smith wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:41pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 10:14am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:23am:

Gnads wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:02am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2023 at 10:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:06am:

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 10:02am:

Exactly....The Voice has SFA to do with Native title so why is Bobby posting bullshit....You are actually supporting my argument with your rant mate!!!

:) :) :)

I'm not posting bullshit.

What else do we stand to lose if the Voice vote is yes -
you tell us?

Christ you're a moron.

How typical of the racists and bigots on here, crying that giving someone else a voice will lose them something they never had. :D

Perfect example as to why idiots like you shouldn't get a vote.

It's not "the least we can do" ... that's just leftoid wanker emotive guilt ridden bullshyte.

re:highlight - if that's true then why have it in there based solely on race?
its a token gesture

You don't try & placate a people by pandering to Constitutional change.
ignoring them hasn't worked for 200 yrs, what makes you think continuing to ignore them will suddenly work?
And Albaneses right hand man in the Voice, Thomas Mayo does not believe that bullshit you've just tried to use as a coverup, one iota.
then he's as deluded as you
He sees this as a opportunity to grab power & control & a big money spinner in reparations, compensation & control.

Having a nation within a nation & growing fat off that purely based on his race.

nationwithina nation ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D stay off the drugs

That you think it a token gesture is one thing....

that you think that "token gesture" with another level of unelected bureaucracy should be enshrined in the Constitution would suggest your naivety/gullibility & that you're the one taking some mind altering substances. You're ...

F I T H

F ucked I n T he H ead.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Frank on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 12:32pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:23am:

There is nothing the govt can do with the 'voice' in the constitution, that it cannot already do with no 'voice' in the constitution. Your scare tactics are bullshit.

So why divide the country over it, thickeroonio??

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 3:13pm

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 5:55pm:

Nobody has ever disputed that Abos were here before 1788.

"Terra Nullius"?

Quote:

They were just too primitive, fragmented and backward to do anything with even remotely approaching partnership. Even now, the ones you can talk to are the ones that are least Aboriginal. There cannot be a dialogue of equals across a 60,000 years wide cultural, developmental gap.

But now the nation is tasked with closing the gap, even as some of them have managed to escape the gap.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 3:39pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 3:13pm:

But now the nation is tasked with closing the gap, even as some of them have managed to escape the gap.

So give the 300,000 one million dollars each and nothing else. Cheap as chips. ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 3:39pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 3:13pm:

But now the nation is tasked with closing the gap, even as some of them have managed to escape the gap.

So give the ~~300,000~~ 600,000 adults one million dollars each and nothing else. Cheap as chips. ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Frank on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 3:43pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 3:13pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 5:55pm:

Nobody has ever disputed that Abos were here before 1788.

"Terra Nullius"?

Quote:

But now the nation is tasked with closing the gap, even as some of them have managed to escape the gap.

Aborigines need to close the gap. They created it, they maintain it. They need to close it.
The ones that gave away their primitive ways have no gap. The ones that cling to the Stone Age culture both inflict and suffer its consequences.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 4:09pm

lee wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 3:39pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 3:13pm:

But now the nation is tasked with closing the gap, even as some of them have managed to escape the gap.

So give the ~~300,000~~ 600,000 adults one million dollars each and nothing else. Cheap as chips. ::)

$600 billion, to fix housing, education, jobs, and health (for however long one can survive on $1 million)?

A better way to fix those things - free for the currency-issuing government - is for the private sector to limit its non-essential claims on the nation's resources, until the gap is closed.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 4:22pm

Frank wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 3:43pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 3:13pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 5:55pm:

Nobody has ever disputed that Abos were here before 1788.

"Terra Nullius"?

Quote:

But now the nation is tasked with closing the gap, even as some of them have managed to escape the gap.

People don't "cling" to poverty, they are forced - or trapped - into it by a dysfunctional economic system.

(Take it from me, the "parrot" knows what he is talking about:

https://profstevekeen.substack.com/p/money-from-nothing?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=872467&post_id=128010491&isFreemail=false&utm_medium=email

Money from Nothing
If everyone could accept this basic accounting truth, capitalism would function a lot better

Prof. Steve Keen)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 5:32pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 4:09pm:

$600 billion, to fix housing, education, jobs, and health (for however long one can survive on $1 million)?

Let's see Health - free so no extra for that.
Education - free so no extra for that
Housing - how much for one house per family? Although they already get the housing.
Jobs? Invested returns about $60,000 per year and indexed.

Indigenous specific measures from the Productivity Commission show $5.6 Billion. Give them one year of that money directly to them. Cheap.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:09pm

lee wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 5:32pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 4:09pm:

$600 billion, to fix housing, education, jobs, and health (for however long one can survive on $1 million)?

Let's see Health - free so no extra for that.

Wrong of course, you need affordable good food, clean housing, and an above poverty job, to maintain good health. ...and avoid the horror of kidney dialysis machines.

Quote:

Education - free so no extra for that

Wrong of course, you have to attend school to get the free education, not easy for dysfunctional families suffering from generational welfare dependency.

Quote:

Housing - how much for one house per family? Although they already get the housing.

You really should get out more: housing is wrecked by extended homeless families coming in from the 'long grass'.

Quote:

Jobs? Invested returns about $60,000 per year and indexed.

Wrong again...low IQ? The unemployment rate of blacks is twice that of non-blacks.

Quote:

Indigenous specific measures from the Productivity Commission show $5.6 Billion. Give them one year of that money directly to them. Cheap.

Your errors revealed above: GIGO.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by John Smith on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:40pm

Frank wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 12:32pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:23am:

There is nothing the govt can do with the 'voice' in the constitution, that it cannot already do with no 'voice' in the constitution. Your scare tactics are bullshit.

So why divide the country over it, thickeroonio??

I'm not, it's the racists and bigots who are dividing the country. They're the ones pretending that recognizing aborigines will lead to the federation dissolving :D

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by John Smith on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:44pm

Gnads wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 8:51am:

Unlike you, I don't drool over the constitution. It serves the public. When it stops serving the public, it needs to change. Blind adherence to a 200 yr old document written for a different era is not only borderline mental illness, it's also stupidity personified. You sound just as stupid as the gun nutters arguing that they should be allowed military grade weapons because of their constitution

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 7:00pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:09pm:

Wrong of course, you need affordable good food, clean housing, and an above poverty job, to maintain good health. ...and avoid the horror of kidney dialysis machines.

With that money you have money for food, housing etc. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:09pm:

Wrong of course, you have to attend school to get the free education, not easy for dysfunctional families suffering from generational welfare dependency.

The schools are there. It is easy to send kids to school, you just have to have the desire to send them. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:09pm:

You really should get out more: housing is wrecked by extended homeless families coming in from the 'long grass'.

But with that money they own their own houses. And repair them. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:09pm:

The unemployment rate of blacks is twice that of non-blacks.

If the money is invested they don't need jobs...Just like now. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:09pm:

Your errors revealed above: GIGO.

Rubbish.

"Ultimately, the Productivity Commission estimates that only $5.6 billion or 18.6% of the total expenditure is provided through Indigenous-specific or targeted services, saying that:"

https://theconversation.com/factcheck-qanda-is-30-billion-spent-every-year-on-500-000-indigenous-people-in-australia-64658

So only $5.6 billion indigenous specific. And that's per annum. So there is other money available to them. ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 7:50pm

It will never be enough:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW5Nebs3TFA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq9Xh2kOC-M

49,679 views Jun 25, 2023
Sky News host Amanda Stoker says the lead advocate on the Yes campaign for the Voice, Thomas Mayo, was recorded saying he expected the Voice to “get its hands” on superannuation policy while talking to independent MP Zoe Daniel.

“The bloke who designed the Voice ... wants a practical veto on super policy because remember, Mr Albanese said it would be ‘a brave government’ that didn't do as the Voice says,” Ms Stoker said.

“That’s not democracy. So, it’s time for the government to come clean. How much power will the Voice have over your retirement savings?

“Teal MPs like Zoe Daniel, as well as Labor, have a lot of explaining to do.”

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by AusGeoff on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 9:16pm

The "Voice" = ATSIC v.2 = waste of taxpayer money.

One voice already failed, and another to fail inevitably.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 12:45pm

lee wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 7:00pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:09pm:

Wrong of course, you need affordable good food, clean housing, and an above poverty job, to maintain good health. ...and avoid the horror of kidney dialysis machines.

With that money you have money for food, housing etc. ::)

Obvious nonsense, have a look at the camps around Alice Springs. And the rest of your post is GIGO: dole money is sufficient for food and rent in functional communities, in dysfunctional communities resulting from generational welfare dependency, the money is spent on grog and drugs.

Quote:

The schools are there. It is easy to send kids to school, you just have to have the desire to send them. ::)

Typical blind conservative 'blame the victims of poverty' ignorance. Generational welfare dependency breeds family dysfunction.

Quote:

But with that money they own their own houses. And repair them. ::)

Completely ignoring the fact many blacks don't own their own house, just as a third of nonblacks don't own their own house; and ignoring the nomadic practices of jobless blacks.

Quote:

If the money is invested they don't need jobs...Just like now. ::)

Like I said, GIGO. The gap is real.

Quote:

Rubbish.

Confirmed again: GIGO.

Quote:

So only $5.6 billion indigenous specific. And that's per annum. So there is other money available to them. ::)

Most of it goes to supporting the poverty industry bureaucracy. That's why the gap stats are so egregious.

The nation will have to replace the poverty industry with a Job Guarantee, if it wants to close the gap:

https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/the-case-for-a-job-guarantee/

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 1:04pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:44pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 8:51am:

You wouldn't know shyte from clay Smith.

200 year old?

Quote:

The Constitution took effect on 1 January 1901 and is the founding document that sets out how Australia is governed. The Constitution has a special status as it overrides any other laws and can't be changed by the Parliament of the day.

The only blind moron in this debate is you.... in spades. (excuse the pun).

Without laws you have chaos.

Giving constitutional powers to one unelected group in this country is lunacy.

So I know why you're for it. ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by mothra on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 1:06pm

Gnads wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 1:04pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:44pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 8:51am:

You wouldn't know shyte from clay Smith.

200 year old?

Quote:

They will be given no powers.

Christ on a bike you lot are dead set hysterics.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 1:22pm

Gnads wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 1:04pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:44pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 8:51am:

You wouldn't know shyte from clay Smith.

Smith has a point; FITH conservatives in the US have elevated the obsolete 2nd Amendment to the status of 'holy writ', with disastrous results.

Quote:

Without laws you have chaos.

Yes but law has to change as society (hopefully) evolves.

Quote:

Giving constitutional powers to one unelected group in this country is lunacy.

We are all unelected, apart from MPs.

I'm promoting a Job Guarantee. You?

https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/the-case-for-a-job-guarantee/

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 1:30pm

mothra wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 1:06pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 1:04pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:44pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 8:51am:

You wouldn't know shyte from clay Smith.

200 year old?

Quote:

They will be given no powers.

Christ on a bike you lot are dead set hysterics.

Co- writer for the Uluru statement & the Voice Thomas Mayo begs to differ ...

& if you believe that you're just a dead set naive nong.

Jimmy on a bike has SFA to do with anything.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 1:35pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 1:22pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 1:04pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:44pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 8:51am:

You wouldn't know shyte from clay Smith.

Smith has a point; FITH conservatives in the US have elevated the obsolete 2nd Amendment to the status of 'holy writ', with disastrous results.

Quote:

Without laws you have chaos.

Yes but law has to change as society (hopefully) evolves.

[quote]Giving constitutional powers to one unelected group in this country is lunacy.

We are all unelected, apart from MPs.

I'm promoting a Job Guarantee. You?

https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/the-case-for-a-job-guarantee/[/quote]

::) TGD orating his Job Guarantee ;D

570039.jpg (112 KB | 9 )

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 2:00pm

Gnads wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 1:35pm:

::) TGD orating his Job Guarantee ;D

Yes, as promoted by Pavlina Tcherneva , associate professor of economics at Bard University (US).

You?

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 2:01pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 12:45pm:

So you are saying that they can't overcome t6his. Good to know.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 12:45pm:

Typical blind conservative 'blame the victims of poverty' ignorance. Generational welfare dependency breeds family dysfunction.

And again they can't overcome this. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 12:45pm:

Completely ignoring the fact many blacks don't own their own house, just as a third of nonblacks don't own their own house; and ignoring the nomadic practices of jobless blacks.

But with that money they could own their own houses. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 12:45pm:

Like I said, GIGO. The gap is real.

And money won't close the gap? Oh dear. You really are belittling aboriginals. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 12:45pm:

Confirmed again: GIGO.

You really know about GIGO. You embody it. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 12:45pm:

Most of it goes to supporting the poverty industry bureaucracy. That's why the gap stats are so egregious.

The nation will have to replace the poverty industry with a Job Guarantee, if it wants to close the gap:

Oh only the poverty industry not the indigenous industry. ::)

So taking money from the indigenous community and giving it to the indigenous community under a new name. Talk about GIGO. ::) ::) ::)
Those funds are of $5.6 billion are outside the dole, which is available to all unemployed. Remember the $5.6 billion is Indigenous Specific. ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 2:26pm

lee wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 2:01pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 12:45pm:

So you are saying that they can't overcome t6his. Good to know.

Indeed, generational welfare dependency imposed by the state - in lieu of provision of employment - means only the most naturallycapable can escape from poverty.

Quote:

But with that money they could own their own houses. ::)

Blind ignorance: there is currently a housing crisis among the NON-BLACK population as well as the black population, regardless of the social dysfunction among blacks caused by state-imposed generational welfare dependency.

Quote:

And money won't close the gap? Oh dear. You really are belittling aboriginals. ::)

A guaranteed job will close the gap, dole money won't.

Quote:

Oh only the poverty industry not the indigenous industry. ::)

Crippled-brain conservative, the poverty industry and the 'indigenous industry' are one and the same thing.

Quote:

So taking money from the indigenous community and giving it to the indigenous community under a new name. Talk about GIGO. ::) ::) ::)

Only provison of suitable employment can eradicate generational poverty and social dysfunction.

Impossible under your current gruesome neoliberal/neoclassical economic system.

https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/the-case-for-a-job-guarantee/

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 2:54pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 2:26pm:

Indeed, generational welfare dependency imposed by the state - in lieu of provision of employment - means only the most naturallycapable can escape from poverty.

So they are doomed to the public tit. Good to know.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 2:26pm:

there is currently a housing crisis among the NON-BLACK population as well as the black population, regardless of the social dysfunction among blacks caused by state-imposed generational welfare dependency.

But they would have their own money to build or buy houses. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 2:26pm:

A guaranteed job will close the gap, dole money won't.

Like the guaranteed "jobs" mowing community lawns one day a month. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 2:26pm:

Crippled-brain conservative, the poverty industry and the 'indigenous industry' are one and the same thing.

Oh so only Aboriginals live in poverty and rely on the poverty industry. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 2:26pm:

Only provison of suitable employment can eradicate generational poverty and social dysfunction.

So tell us what are these remarkable jobs in remote communities apart from mowing the lawn one day a month for one person. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 2:26pm:

Impossible under your current gruesome neoliberal/neoclassical economic system.

Well you tell us how to do it. Don't pass it off to someone else. You keep inferring you KNOW. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 2:26pm:

https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/the-case-for-a-job-guarantee/

Ah a US academic who knows all. Just like Keen. So you have only read the intro. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 6:08pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 2:00pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 1:35pm:

::) TGD orating his Job Guarantee ;D

Yes, as promoted by Pavlina Tcherneva , associate professor of economics at Bard University (US).

You?

So? Just one economist in a field of many where none have ever actually come up with a stable & viable theory applicable to all that works for all situations.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by John Smith on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 7:46pm

Gnads wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 1:04pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:44pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 8:51am:

You wouldn't know shyte from clay Smith.

200 year old?

Quote:

Do you have some point quoting that rubbish? Or are you just hoping your stupidity will confuse everyone into agreeing with you?

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 10:29pm

lee wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 2:54pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 2:26pm:

Indeed, generational welfare dependency imposed by the state - in lieu of provision of employment - means only the most naturallycapable can escape from poverty.

So they are doomed to the public tit. Good to know.

Only so long as your gruesome neoclassical economics holds sway. So wrong again.

Quote:

But they would have their own money to build or buy houses. ::)

How would "they" have money to buy/build their own houses? A third of non blacks are forced to rent, your statement denies reality and lacks logic.

Not to mention the fact even the government thinks it does't have the money to build social housing, which is the Green's complaint about the ALP's
stock exchange casino "housing fund".

Ofcourse, the gruesome RW "Noalition" doesn't even believe in social housing; Hockey said: "you want a house - go get a better paying job."

Deplorable.

Quote:

Like the guaranteed "jobs" mowing community lawns one day a month. ::)

No - every day, 'caring' work needs to be done; your grasp of logic is deplorable.

Quote:

Oh so only Aboriginals live in poverty and rely on the poverty industry. ::)

Wrong again; in fact more than a million non-blacks are involuntarily long-term unemployed and living in poverty.

Quote:

So tell us what are these remarkable jobs in remote communities apart from mowing the lawn one day a month for one person. ::)

There is always useful work to be done, which the private sector can't make money out of.

Educate yourself:

https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=60964

UN Report on employment guarantees misses the essential points about buffer stock mechanisms

Quote:

Well you tell us how to do it. Don't pass it off to someone else. You keep inferring you KNOW. ::)

Er....I know, being a regular reader of Prof. Bill Mitchell's (and other) blogs. Whereas YOUR satisfaction with the current neoclassical economic orthodoxy is..."deplorable".

1. Authorize the treasury and central bank to buy - with money created 'out of thin air' - the necessary resources (including labour) which happen to be available for purchase. (to avoid inflation).

Ie, the supply of the necessary resources required to maintain a Job Guarantee scheme is already there, so no implications for inflation.

[Note: during the pandemic, Philip Lowe told Adam Bandt "he would resist any assertion the RBA was financing government" ...when in fact the RBA was buying back government bonds to the tune of $20 billion a month to fund the government Covid-rescue package, all to avoid exposing the truth the treasury and RBA CAN create money out of nothing. If Lowe had acted intelligently, the govt would now have no debt, and consumers would not have received money over and above their survival needs during the lock-down, avoiding the demand inflation, part of the bigger supply problems which are part of the overall inflation problem at present.

Quote:

Ah a US academic who knows all. Just like Keen. So you have only read the intro. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Keen has taught us money is ALWAYS created out of nothing, and also the government's deficits are the private sector's sutplus.

Bill has taught us how current political arrangements force governments to sell bonds to the private sector - and when the private sector can't - or won't - buy sufficient bonds (as in the pandemic), to buy them back again, the ultimate charade to hide from the public how money is actually created ('ex nihilo', mostly in private sector banks at present).

Pavlina has put the two concepts together, and recommended a job guarantee, and its method of funding.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by buzzanddidj on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 8:10am

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 7:47am:

We already lost the right to visit Ayers Rock -
what else will we lose after a voice is passed?

NO ONE has "lost the right" to visit Uluru.
But both black and white Australians are now barred from climbing it.
This move was necessary due to the appalling amount of people dumping rubbish - let alone people taking a disrespectful crap - on the roof of this sacred sight.
When people start sh!tting in and climbing St Paul's Cathedral, you might see a similar ban put in place, there.
.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by JC Denton on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 8:18am

who would even want to go to it

super isolated from everything and extremely expensive, it's not even that impressive as far as monoliths go

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Boris on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 8:50am

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 8:10am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 7:47am:

We already lost the right to visit Ayers Rock -
what else will we lose after a voice is passed?

NO ONE has "lost the right" to visit Uluru.
But both white and white Australians are now barred from climbing it.
This move was necessary due to the appalling amount of people dumping rubbish - let alone people taking a disrespectful crap - on the roof of this sacred sight.
When people start sh!tting in and climbing St Paul's Cathedral, you might see a similar ban put in place, there.
.

I climbed it and took a dump on top of it while a plane few low and everyone in it watched me move my bowels

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 9:49am

John Smith wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 7:46pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 1:04pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:44pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 8:51am:

You wouldn't know shyte from clay Smith.

200 year old?

Quote:

Do you have some point quoting that rubbish? Or are you just hoping your stupidity will confuse everyone into agreeing with you?

And the point of your blind stupidity is?

Democratic countries don't go amending or making Constitutional change on airy fairy emotional feelgood whims of guilt ridden politicial ideologues, rabid activists & gullible numpties like yourself.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 9:51am

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 8:10am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 7:47am:

We already lost the right to visit Ayers Rock -
what else will we lose after a voice is passed?

Fool .... Aboriginals have been pissing & shyting on & around the Rock for 60,000 years ....

haven't they? ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by John Smith on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 12:55pm

Gnads wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 9:49am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 7:46pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 1:04pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:44pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 8:51am:

You wouldn't know shyte from clay Smith.

200 year old?

Quote:

Do you have some point quoting that rubbish? Or are you just hoping your stupidity will confuse everyone into agreeing with you?

No one is asking them to. That you don't understand the voice doesn't not mean the voice, or those behind it are 'whimsical', it just means you're an idiot.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by buzzanddidj on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 1:02pm

Gnads wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 9:51am:

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 8:10am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 7:47am:

We already lost the right to visit Ayers Rock -
what else will we lose after a voice is passed?

Aboriginals have been pissing & shyting on & around the Rock for 60,000 years ....

Indeed,
The Anangu people have had a tradition for 60.000 odd years of at least one roll of Sorbent in their back-packs - to make the four hour round trip, to the top of the rock - for a morning dump.

NATURALLY, there was a duel purpose.
It was a convenient place to dump last night's fish 'n' chip paper and McDonald's wrappers, as well.

.

.ii

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 1:21pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 10:29pm:

Only so long as your gruesome neoclassical economics holds sway.

You were the one said -
lee wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 2:54pm:

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 12:26pm:
Indeed, generational welfare dependency imposed by the state - in lieu of provision of employment - means only the most naturallycapable can escape from poverty.

The offer was to give them money to live independently. So not welfare dependency. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 10:29pm:

How would "they" have money to buy/build their own houses?

You forgot my opening argument about giving them money and not having to earn it. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 10:29pm:

Not to mention the fact even the government thinks it does't have the money to build social housing, which is the Green's complaint about the ALP's

But gifting them the money means they would not be on social housing. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 10:29pm:

No - every day, 'caring' work needs to be done; your grasp of logic is deplorable.

Ah so many care givers and so few care receivers. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 10:29pm:

Wrong again; in fact more than a million non-blacks are involuntarily long-term unemployed and living in poverty.

But you said -
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 2:26pm:

the poverty industry and the 'indigenous industry' are one and the same thing.

::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 10:29pm:

There is always useful work to be done, which the private sector can't make money out of.

So back to the government tit. Aboriginals working in the community as "carers", are a part of the "private sector", unless they are part of the Government sector. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 10:29pm:

Er....I know, being a regular reader of Prof. Bill Mitchell's (and other) blogs.

Just so. YOU KNOW. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 10:29pm:

1. Authorize the treasury and central bank to buy - with money created 'out of thin air' - the necessary resources (including labour) which happen to be available for purchase. (to avoid inflation).

I already said to give them money. I said one million each adult. Give them five million, it is still cheap. ::)
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 10:29pm:

Keen has taught us money is ALWAYS created out of nothing, and also the government's deficits are the private sector's sutplus.

And Keen is another fringe economist. Who hasn't proved anything, despite your protestations to the contrary. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2023 at 10:29pm:

Pavlina has put the two concepts together, and recommended a job guarantee, and its method of funding.

And she has never had a job outside academia. So her conclusions are merely academic. ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Frank on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 1:46pm

JC Denton wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 8:18am:

who would even want to go to it

super isolated from everything and extremely expensive, it's not even that impressive as far as monoliths go

My sentiments exactly.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Brian Ross on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 2:52pm

Boris wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 8:50am:

I climbed it and took a dump on top of it while a plane few low and everyone in it watched me move my bowels

Yeah, yeah, sure, Matty, sure. How disrespectful of you in your fantasy world. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 3:13pm

lee wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 1:21pm:

The offer was to give them money to live independently. So not welfare dependency. ::)

Low IQ, or ideological blindness?

'Free' aka 'sit-down money' - at poverty level, is always a disaster for the individual, leading to welfare dependency.

Quote:

You forgot my opening argument about giving them money and not having to earn it. ::)

And refuted above: another of your GIGO arguments. Welfare dependency via free subsistence money is NOT conducive to individual self-motivation.

Quote:

But gifting them the money means they would not be on social housing. ::)

Addressed above: motivation for personal inprovement (and owning a house) is not engendered by poverty-level sit-down money.

Quote:

Ah so many care givers and so few care receivers. ::)

Er ...why do you think the goverment is begging people to volunteer for many services needed by the community?

Quote:

But you said - the poverty industry and the 'indigenous industry' are one and the same thing.

They are; but that doesn't negate the fact some non blacks also live in poverty. Low IQ?

Quote:

So back to the government tit.

No; back to work the community wants done - which the private sector can't make a quid out of.

Quote:

Aboriginals working in the community as "carers", are a part of the "private sector", unless they are part of the Government sector. ::)

Er....another of your ideological stuff-ups: people paid by government are not "part of the private sector", even though they are employed in local activity deemed useful by the local community.

Quote:

Just so. YOU KNOW. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Correct; and you can know too, if you take off your gruesome neoclassical lenses and study Mitchell's work.

Quote:

I already said to give them money. I said one million each adult. Give them five million, it is still cheap. ::)

So you are an MMTer (cough...).

...but 5 times 600 billion is $3 trillion; even MMTers would balk at that, to consider the implications for the nation's resources involved.

And you are ignoring the fact lottery winners usually end up penurious.

Quote:

And Keen is another fringe economist. Who hasn't proved anything, despite your protestations to the contrary. ::)

How do YOU think money is created, and how do you think the private sector can save, if the government is also trying to achieve a surplus (by raising more in taxes than it spends)...do tell...

Quote:

And she has never had a job outside academia. So her conclusions are merely academic. ;D ;D ;D

Like Einstein's?

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 3:57pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 3:13pm:

'Free' aka 'sit-down money' - at poverty level, is always a disaster for the individual, leading to welfare dependency.

I never said anything about poverty level. That's you.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 3:13pm:

Welfare dependency via free subsistence money is NOT conducive to individual self-motivation.

I said nothing about subsistence money . ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 3:13pm:

motivation for personal inprovement (and owning a house) is not engendered by poverty-level sit-down money.

Again nothing said about " poverty-level sit-down money". ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 3:13pm:

Er ...why do you think the goverment is begging people to volunteer for many services needed by the community?

Oh you mean the wider community not the aboriginal community. That would mean them leaving their communities. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 3:13pm:

They are; but that doesn't negate the fact some non blacks also live in poverty.

So it caters to both so is not merely an aboriginal only problem. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 3:13pm:

No; back to work the community wants done - which the private sector can't make a quid out of.

Now you have changed definition of community again. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 3:13pm:

Er....another of your ideological stuff-ups: people paid by government are not "part of the private sector", even though they are employed in local activity deemed useful by the local community.

If they are providing services to the community, even if Government funded it iS part of the private sector, unless it is merely "sit down money". ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 3:13pm:

..but 5 times 600 billion is $3 trillion; even MMTers would balk at that, to consider the implications for the nation's resources involved.

Now I know you don't do maths of any kind. There are about 600,000 adults aboriginals. Giving them $5 million, would be $30 billion. Still cheap rather than giving aid at $5.6 billion per. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 3:13pm:

Like Einstein's?

Einsteins's has been proven to the extent of science then. Unlike your heroine. ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 6:59pm

lee wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 3:57pm:

I never said anything about poverty level. That's you.

Low IQ? Black poverty is THE problem to be eradicated, to close the gap.

Quote:

I said nothing about subsistence money . ::)

Low IQ? 'Sit-down money' IS subsistance money.

Quote:

Again nothing said about " poverty-level sit-down money". ::)

Crippled conservative brain is blinded by his own 'survival of the fittest' ideology; hence can't see the link between the gap, and poverty level sit-down money, least of all social dysfunction.

Quote:

Oh you mean the wider community not the aboriginal community. That would mean them leaving their communities. ::)

Low IQ; the demand for volunteers shows the amount of useful work which needs to be done, in black AND non- black communities.

Quote:

So it caters to both so is not merely an aboriginal only problem. ::)

Low IQ; but given that dumb questions are better than no questions:

The poverty-level dole is disastrous for individual morale, regardless of race. But the problem is worse in the black community (hence the gap) , given twice the rate of unemployment in the black population.

Quote:

Now you have changed definition of community again. ::)

But unfortunately I can't change your IQ. Communities are composed of people with varying capacities to compete in your gruesome neoliberal job-market; hence the subsistance 'welfare safety net', to avoid social revolution. (And boy did Morrison get caught up in his ugly 'survival of the fittest' ideology, when he tried to claw-back as much money as possible from welfare recipients... "cowardly" according the royal commissioner...)

Quote:

If they are providing services to the community, even if Government funded it iS part of the private sector, unless it is merely "sit down money". ::)

Ho-kaaaay...if you want to call non-market Job Guarantee jobs private sector jobs, be my guest. One thing for sure; the private 'invisible hand' market isn't paying the JG wages, the government is.

Quote:

Now I know you don't do maths of any kind. There are about 600,000 adults aboriginals. Giving them $5 million, would be $30 billion. Still cheap rather than giving aid at $5.6 billion per. ::)

(disregarding "giving aid at $5.6 billion per....." - per what, exactly? Year?)

Short term memory loss? You said "give 600,000 'blacks' $1 million each, ie $600,000 million = $600 billion. Then you realized $1 million isn't enough for a lifetime, so you suggested $5 million each (total cost: $3 trillion)

Are you a lying turd, or just dumb? (...or you made a an honest maths error...obviously unaware of ball-park figures in the macro-economy. )

Quote:

Einsteins's has been proven to the extent of science then. Unlike your heroine. ::)

Have patience; your gruesome neoclassical monetarist ideology is near total collapse, as increasingly costly weather disasters are crippling national budgets (or rather, plunging already poor people further into poverty) everywhere, quite apart from unsustainable debt repayments from poor developing nations to rich developed ones.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 8:34pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 6:59pm:

Black poverty is THE problem to be eradicated, to close the gap.

Not with my proposal. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 6:59pm:

'Sit-down money' IS subsistance money.

And it was your term. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 6:59pm:

Crippled conservative brain is blinded by his own 'survival of the fittest' ideology; hence can't see the link between the gap, and poverty level sit-down money, least of all social dysfunction.

My proposal says nothing about poverty level sit down money. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 6:59pm:

the demand for volunteers shows the amount of useful work which needs to be done, in black AND non- black communities.

But this is about black communities. And the "demand" would be less than the number of services provided. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 6:59pm:

but given that dumb questions are better than no questions:

So you prove you can't tell the difference between a statement and a question. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 6:59pm:

But the problem is worse in the black community (hence the gap) , given twice the rate of unemployment in the black population.

And which my proposal would overcome. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 6:59pm:

But unfortunately I can't change your IQ.

Thanks for agreeing that you changed the definition of community. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 6:59pm:

if you want to call non-market Job Guarantee jobs private sector jobs, be my guest.

So non-market jobs. If there is no market it is just work for the dole. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 6:59pm:

Tell us about these weather disasters that are apparently exceeding GDP increase. ::)

The highest cost was in 2011. ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Frank on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 9:23am

John Smith wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:40pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 12:32pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:23am:

There is nothing the govt can do with the 'voice' in the constitution, that it cannot already do with no 'voice' in the constitution. Your scare tactics are bullshit.

So why divide the country over it, thickeroonio??

I'm not, it's the racists and bigots who are dividing the country. They're the ones pretending that recognizing aborigines will lead to the federation dissolving :D

People like you - and Burney, Tennis Albo, Bbwian, Arrsie et al - are the most effective, forceful voices for No.

Thank you for your service, thickeroonie, carry on.

respectful_001.jpeg (85 KB | 10 )

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 11:26am

Frank wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 9:23am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 6:40pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 12:32pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:23am:

There is nothing the govt can do with the 'voice' in the constitution, that it cannot already do with no 'voice' in the constitution. Your scare tactics are bullshit.

So why divide the country over it, thickeroonio??

I'm not, it's the racists and bigots who are dividing the country. They're the ones pretending that recognizing aborigines will lead to the federation dissolving :D

People like you - and Burney, Tennis Albo, Bbwian, Arrsie et al - are the most effective, forceful voices for No.

Thank you for your service, thickeroonie, carry on.

Today Dutton said: "of course we all want to eradicate the terrible third world conditions experienced by many of our aboriginal citizens."

But he didn't say how.....

At least you can be reasonably confident the Voice will go down, now that people are becoming increasingly concerned about the constitutional ramifications; but the day after, Dutton will still be faced with closing the gap.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 12:18pm

lee wrote on Jul 7^th, 2023 at 8:34pm:

............

You lying turd: I thought it might be smart to first look at your response to my exposition of your maths ineptitude - even after you claimed I couldn't do maths. namely:

TGD:(disregarding "giving aid at $5.6 billion per....." - per what, exactly? Year?)

Short term memory loss? You said "give 600,000 'blacks' $1 million each, ie $600,000 million = $600 billion. Then you realized $1 million isn't enough for a lifetime, so you suggested $5 million each (total cost: $3 trillion)

Are you a lying turd, or just dumb? (...or you made an honest maths error...obviously unaware of ball-park figures in the macro-economy. )

And guess what: NO RESPONSE at all.

You simply ignored it, so that you could defend your absurd GIGO trillion dollar 'free money' concept, to push the problem of aboriginal dysfunction under the carpet.

You lying, fraudulent, conservative turd - "criminal", according to the robo-debt royal commisioner's estimation of like-minded 'survival of the fittest' ideologues like you determined to claw back as much welfare money as they could. (Of course the dole shouldn't exist anyway, a job guarantee should be legislated ASAP).

Quote:

Tell us about these weather disasters that are apparently exceeding GDP increase. Roll Eyes

The highest cost was in 2011.

Typical indifference from a comfortable conservative fraud; many people in Lismore are still living in caravans alongside their wrecked houses from the 2019 floods, because your gruesome neoclassical economics prioritizes building private houses for rent-seeking landlords, and profit-seeking junk consumption in 'invisible hand' markets, over government-funded social housing and repair of houses damaged in weather-related disasters.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by John Smith on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 12:22pm

Frank wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 9:23am:

People like you - and Burney, Tennis Albo, Bbwian, Arrsie et al - are the most effective, forceful voices for No.

that must be why you spend so much time crying about what we say

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 2:14pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 12:18pm:

lee wrote Yesterday at 6:34pm:
............

Where did I write that? I made an error of an order of magnitude. That is I miscounted the number of zeroes. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 12:18pm:

So you don't have the numbers as a percentage of GDP. Why didn't you say so? ::)

"Treasurer Jim Chalmers has warned natural disasters and extreme weather will hit the federal budget in May, with recovery funding adding billions of dollars in costs to the bottom line.

Natural disasters and extreme weather events wiped $5 billion from the Australian economy in 2022, largely because of widespread disruption to the mining, agriculture, tourism and construction sectors.

The disruption was equivalent to about 0.25 per cent of gross domestic product, new Treasury analysis shows, and that comes on top of more direct costs such as damage to property and infrastructure."

https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/chalmers-warns-of-budget-hit-from-natural-disasters-20230112-p5cc5d

Keep crying in your schnapps. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 5:45pm

lee wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 2:14pm:

I made an error of an order of magnitude. That is I miscounted the number of zeroes. ::)

and hence your whole absurd argument - solve the problem of black dysfunction by giving them each $1million - or is it $5 million? - is exposed for the GIGO it is.

Quote:

So you don't have the numbers as a percentage of GDP. Why didn't you say so? ::)

I am talking real losses for real people , not "numbers as a % of GDP" which a blind survival of the fittest comfortable conservative is content to regard, rather than the actual impact of the losses on real people.

Quote:

"Treasurer Jim Chalmers has warned natural disasters and extreme weather will hit the federal budget in May, with recovery funding adding billions of dollars in costs to the bottom line.

Now you are arguing my case, as to be expected from a blind FITH conservative.

Quote:

Keep crying in your schnapps. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

while you carry on in splendid ignorance: "ignorance is bliss".

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 6:25pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 5:45pm:

and hence your whole absurd argument - solve the problem of black dysfunction by giving them each $1million - or is it $5 million? - is exposed for the GIGO it is.

At least I offered a solution. You prefer the untried, unfunded academic argument. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 5:45pm:

I am talking real losses for real people , not "numbers as a % of GDP" which a blind survival of the fittest comfortable conservative is content to regard, rather than the actual impact of the losses on real people.

You don't know the level of "real losses". Without knowing those losses you can't do anything. Just a nonsensical talking point. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 5:45pm:

Now you are arguing my case, as to be expected from a blind FITH conservative.

And part of the GDP. Not MMT. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 5:45pm:

while you carry on in splendid ignorance: "ignorance is bliss".

Then you should die happy. ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Frank on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 7:34pm

It is a pleasure to see Lee elegantly and effortlessly pissing on Boy Parrot here, and Boy Parrot flailing, out of his depth.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 8:05pm

lee wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 6:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 5:45pm:

and hence your whole absurd argument - solve the problem of black dysfunction by giving them each $1million - or is it $5 million? - is exposed for the GIGO it is.

At least I offered a solution. You prefer the untried, unfunded academic argument. ::)

$5 million for each black isn't a solution, it's a demonstration of your ideological and analytical ineptitude; unsurprisingly, Frank is impressed ---though he hasn't thought it through...

Quote:

You don't know the level of "real losses". Without knowing those losses you can't do anything. Just a nonsensical talking point. ::)

So people still living in caravans 3 years after a weather-related disaster is "not knowing those losses". Your indifference is franky evil, even if simply ignorant.

Quote:

And part of the GDP. Not MMT. ::)

Blind ideology; both obviously, since govt. money created from nothing, in conjunction with govt. diverting resources from the greedy private profit seeking junk consumer and rent seeking private sector will be necessary to pay for weather related disasters like Lismore, as insurance becomes unaffordable.

Quote:

Then you should die happy. ::)

No, you crippled-brain simpleton, I'm aware of the suffering caused by your neanderthal instincts (and sheer ignorance), and the consequences of your blind survival of the fittest economic orthodoxy.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Agness on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 9:05pm

"We" lost Ulru- are you morons kidding me- who the fck owns it ?

It belongs to everyone- dickheads!!!

I'm voting-------- :-X

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 9:28pm

Agnes. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 9:05pm:

"We" lost Ulru- are you morons kidding me- who the fck owns it ?

It belongs to everyone- dickheads!!!

I'm voting-------- :-X

It's already started - we just lost Goat island:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12253585/Sydney-Harbour-Goat-Island-Mel-handed-Indigenous-Australians.html

Heritage-listed island in the heart of Sydney Harbour to be handed back to Indigenous Australians -
with a $43million promise

Goat Island will be transferred to Aboriginal ownership
The island is located in Sydney Harbour

By Ashley Nickel For Daily Mail Australia

Published: 19:07 AEST, 1 July 2023 | Updated: 21:03 AEST, 1 July 2023

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 9:43pm

It will never be enough:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW5Nebs3TFA

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 10:17pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 8:05pm:

$5 million for each black isn't a solution, it's a demonstration of your ideological and analytical ineptitude; unsurprisingly, Frank is impressed ---though he hasn't thought it through...

You haven't either. Knee JERK reaction. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 8:05pm:

So people still living in caravans 3 years after a weather-related disaster is "not knowing those losses". Your indifference is franky evil, even if simply ignorant.

So these losses - Are they insured losses, uninsured losses, under-insured losses?

As I said you don't know. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 8:05pm:

Ah the MMT'er strikes again. Dire straits - "Money for nothin'" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 8:05pm:

I'm aware of the suffering caused by your neanderthal instincts (and sheer ignorance), and the consequences of your blind survival of the fittest economic orthodoxy.

But don't understand your own ignorance. Your beliefs are quasi-religious. ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 10:20am

lee wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 10:17pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 8:05pm:

$5 million for each black isn't a solution, it's a demonstration of your ideological and analytical ineptitude; unsurprisingly, Frank is impressed ---though he hasn't thought it through...

You haven't either. Knee JERK reaction. ::)

Another of Lee's "elegant arguments": (ie "I'm clueless, but you are too, though I can't explain why you are clueless")..... though not as "elegant" as this one (from #155): "The offer was to give them money to live independently. So not welfare dependency."

See how the crippled conservatiive brain works? He suggests offering $5 million to each black, as a solution for dealing with black dysfunction and closing the gap.

And diverts to definitions along the way.

He claims this will allow them to "live independently", and is therefore not welfare, and so will overcome the generational welfare dependency imposed by the state in lieu of provision of above poverty employment - which logically is the actual and only solution to elimanate generational welfare dependency and closing the gap.

You have to wonder if he is actually so dumb or is actually arguing for the status quo - which is failing to close the gap.

Ie, maybe Lee actually accepts the ignorant conservative stance that the nation can't close the gap because the blacks are responsible for their own plight - the more "honest" stance of blind conservatives. Whereas Lee is showing himself to be a slippery fraud - surely the sheer stupidity of giving people $5 million to "live independently" is blantantly obvious to any observer regardless of their political ideology.

For a start, the necessary education and intervention into dysfunctional communities - intervention which has to happen anyway regardless of the method to solve the problem - to teach them how to prosper on that $5 million would be as expensive as Lee's propsed 'not-dole' ("independent living") money itself.

So...is Lee "honestly" blind, or an actual fraud?

So lets' read on, to see if we can find an answer to that question.

Quote:

TGD "So people still living in caravans 3 years after a weather-related disaster is "not knowing those losses". Your indifference is franky evil, even if simply ignorant.

So these losses - Are they insured losses, uninsured losses, under-insured losses?

Ah...the classic FD technique; ask diversionary questions.

ie, ignore the impact of the financial losses on people's lives, by diversion to "bean counting" ...Lee is the accountant, not the socioligist....

Quote:

As I said you don't know. ::)

Your lying fraudulence or simple-minded stupidity exposed above; obviously not "or", but both.

Quote:

Ah the MMT'er strikes again. Dire straits - "Money for nothin'"

Wrong; the issue is free government money (NOT "taxpayer money") for intelligent, non-market mobilization of the nation's resources including unused labour, NOT giving "money for nothin" to individuals; here you are merely wearing your blind conservative dunce cap, due to ignorance rather than actual fraudulence.

Quote:

TGD: I'm aware of the suffering caused by your neanderthal instincts (and sheer ignorance), and the consequences of your blind survival of the fittest economic orthodoxy.

But don't understand your own ignorance. Your beliefs are quasi-religious. ::)

1. Blind instinct - un-reasoning by definition - is ignorance itself. As already observed - and ignorantly rejected by you - neanderthal blind instinct resulted in the demands by the rival great powers for the veto power in the UNSC in 1945 , even at the start of the age of MAD; your desperate diversions into a consideration of the meaning of "now" not withstanding.

2. Religious beliefs are also based on un-reason, though they may be driven by a reverence for life emanating in the cortex brain, unlike your indifference to life which is driven by un-reasoning neanderthal survival instincts based in the reptilian brain.

Hence the current chaos in Ukraine including the slaughter of children, part of the ongoing age-old "scourge of humanity" driven by unthinking neanderthal instincts, the scourge which the UN Charter wanted to eradicate, but failed to do so in the face of these very instincts.

Yes, Christ did say "love God and love one another", though he didn't reckon on Lee's crippled conservative brain.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 10:39am

Bobby. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 9:43pm:

It will never be enough

I too resent the unending welcome to country and "we are on such and such land" ABC presenters assail us with at the start of many programs.

And I'm disappointed by the closing of wonderful natural sites in Oz (fortunately I climbed Uluru - an exhilirating experience - before it was closed).

But we have brought it on ourselves by accepting welfare dependency in lieu of education and provision of employment for all.

Duh.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 12:00pm

Because, you know, there is something difficult about walking to a library where you can read or borrow out free books and learn a thing or two. Or get that training that the government provides for free (especially if you are part of a disadvantaged group) so that you can get a job or a better job and work your way out of poverty. just ask greatdivide. He knows. </sarcasm>

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 12:39pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 10:20am:

Another of Lee's "elegant arguments": (ie "I'm clueless, but you are too, though I can't explain why you are clueless")..... though not as "elegant" as this one

You have shown you ignorance over multiple post.
- No understanding of accounting.
- No understanding of science
and on... and on.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 10:20am:

Ah...the classic FD technique; ask diversionary questions.

No. They define the actual losses, which was your topic. If it is covered by insurance it is not your loss. The only losses unaccounted are keepsakes as they generally, though not always, cannot be replaced. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 10:20am:

Your lying fraudulence or simple-minded stupidity exposed above; obviously not "or", but both.

Rubbish. It can be a hardship having to live in a caravan. Not a loss. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 10:20am:

Wrong; the issue is free government money (NOT "taxpayer money") for intelligent, non-market mobilization of the nation's resources including unused labour, NOT giving "money for nothin" to individuals; here you are merely wearing your blind conservative dunce cap, due to ignorance rather than actual fraudulence.

Money for nothing. Nothing to back it up. Just "I believe". ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 10:20am:

1. Blind instinct - un-reasoning by definition - is ignorance itself. As already observed - and ignorantly rejected by you - neanderthal blind instinct resulted in the demands by the rival great powers for the veto power in the UNSC in 1945 , even at the start of the age of MAD; your desperate diversions into a consideration of the meaning of "now" not withstanding.

And nowhere do you show yourself different. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 10:20am:

2. Religious beliefs are also based on un-reason, though they may be driven by a reverence for life emanating in the cortex brain, unlike your indifference to life which is driven by un-reasoning neanderthal survival instincts based in the reptilian brain.

But YOUR belief is in the "experts". Whereas science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. Experts are not infallible; except to you. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 10:20am:

Yes, Christ did say "love God and love one another", though he didn't reckon on Lee's crippled conservative brain.

And there you show your ignorance again. You didn't highlight the appropriate bit. You don't show love. As I said quasi-religious. ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 2:34pm

lee wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 12:39pm:

You have shown you ignorance over multiple post.
- No understanding of accounting.

We are discussing mobilization of the nation's resources to close the black gap; it's not about "accounting", though the bean-counter thinks it is. FYI, currency-issuing governments need to consider mobilization of the nation's resources, not "accounting" for profit and loss in monetary terms, which is the business of the private sector.

Quote:

- No understanding of science
and on... and on.

I'll defer - like most of the world's population - to the scientists who are recommending transition to renewables, away from greedy price-gougers mining filthy fossils, to eradicate global poverty.

Note: Shell has taken a fortune out of the Niger Delta, while Nigeria has remained a third world country. Sheer greed.

And of course you were too ashamed to show again your idiotic and illogical assertion based on false definitions:
"The offer was to give them money to live independently. So not welfare dependency."

Quote:

No. They define the actual losses,

Er ...losses have psychological impacts, as well as impacts measured by bean counters.

Quote:

If it is covered by insurance it is not your loss. The only losses unaccounted are keepsakes as they generally, though not always, cannot be replaced. ::)

Bean counter: and the BIS has already commented that central banks might have to buy the filthy fossil industry, bvcause insurance costs relating to weather are becoming unaffordable.

Quote:

Rubbish. It can be a hardship having to live in a caravan. Not a loss. ::)

Once again, it's both; and the govt. has failed to rebuild the necessary houses after 3 years - not only because insurance companies are dragging their feet, but because insurance in many areas is now too expensive to even buy.

Quote:

Money for nothing. Nothing to back it up. Just "I believe". ::)

Says the guy who wants to give $5 million to each black, paid for by the taxpayer (as demanded by current monetary orthodoxy) - which IS "money for nothing" to the blacks, but NOT to taxpayers.
And you disregard the pitfalls of 'money for nothing', in the hands of individuals in dysfunctional communties.

As opposed to the logic of free government money to mobilize resources to close the gap, via provision of employment for all.

Quote:

TGD:
1. Blind instinct - un-reasoning by definition - is ignorance itself. As already observed - and ignorantly rejected by you - neanderthal blind instinct resulted in the demands by the rival great powers for the veto power in the UNSC in 1945 , even at the start of the age of MAD; your desperate diversions into a consideration of the meaning of "now" not withstanding.

And nowhere do you show yourself different. ::)

The difference between me and you is I recognise the effects of neanderthal survival instincts in us all.

Whereas blind 'survival of the fittest' conservatives can't see it, which is why they hate the UN for being "useless", when in fact it's their own blind ideology which has rendered the UN "useless" (via the imposition of the veto in the UNSC, against the wishes of enlightened people like Doc Evatt who knew what would happen if the veto power was entrenched in the UNSC).

Quote:

Religious beliefs are also based on un-reason, though they may be driven by a reverence for life emanating in the cortex brain, unlike your indifference to life which is driven by un-reasoning neanderthal survival instincts based in the reptilian brain.

But YOUR belief is in the "experts".

On the contrary, my 'beliefs' are based on reason on behalf of the common welfare and collective security.

So indeed I follow experts like Evatt and Keen who know how to achieve this.

Quote:

Whereas science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. Experts are not infallible; except to you. ::)

Misleading definition; certainly some "experts" should be ignored, like "experts" in interntional law who believe in in the insane concept of "legal war"...even in the age of MAD.
And gruesome neoclassical "experts" who insist inflation must be controlled by hurting debtors and rewarding creditors - a perfect example of upside-down/'survival of the fittest' mentality.

Quote:

TGD: Yes, Christ did say "love God and love one another", though he didn't reckon on Lee's crippled conservative brain.

And there you show your ignorance again. You didn't highlight the appropriate bit. You don't show love. As I said quasi-religious. ::)

...highlight the approprate bit, as in engender the common welfare and collective security? ("love one-another")?

As opposed to your blind 'individual sovereignty' reptilian-brain-driven ideology which ensures endless wars and entrenched systemic poverty.

Some "love" there....

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 3:01pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

We are discussing mobilization of the nation's resources to close the black gap; it's not about "accounting", though the bean-counter thinks it is.

But YOU don't. Such ignorance. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

I'll defer - like most of the world's population - to the scientists who are recommending transition to renewables, away from greedy price-gougers mining filthy fossils, to eradicate global poverty.

So now you confuse scientists with engineers. Such ignorance. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

Er ...losses have psychological impacts, as well as impacts measured by bean counters.

Of course they do. That's why you have to differentiate between insurable and uninsurable losses. Such ignorance. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

Bean counter: and the BIS has already commented that central banks might have to buy the filthy fossil industry, bvcause insurance costs relating to weather are becoming unaffordable.

You really don't understand do you. The insurance costs are not unaffordable; and there is no need for central banks to buy them. People invested people made their money, when the time comes the industries will close. No need for central banks at all. Such ignorance. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

Ah the government has failed. The socialist wet dream. Such ignorance. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

Says the guy who wants to give $5 million to each black, paid for by the taxpayer (as demanded by current monetary orthodoxy) - which IS "money for nothing" to the blacks, but NOT to taxpayers.

So now you believe the aboriginals don't pay tax. Such ignorance. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

As opposed to the logic of free government money to mobilize resources to close the gap, via provision of employment for all.

So tell us how "free government money " will change the current behaviour of giving them "free government money". Such ignorance. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

The difference between me and you is I recognise the effects of neanderthal survival instincts in us all.

And giving them "free government money" will fix that. Such ignorance. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

On the contrary, my 'beliefs' are based on reason on behalf of the common welfare and collective security.

No you say you believe in the consensus. Such ignorance. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

So indeed I follow experts like Evatt and Keen who know how to achieve this.

No that is just your belief system. Such ignorance. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

That is not how science operates; else we would still believe the Earth is the centre of the solar system. Such ignorance. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

...highlight the approprate bit, as in engender the common welfare and collective security? ("love one-another")?

Nope. You have shown yourself to be a hypocrite. Such ignorance. ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by JC Denton on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 3:05pm

"mobilisation of the nations resources to close the black gap" lmao

holy sh1t

this is what i'm talking about

am i the only who thinks its absolutely batsh1t insane that about ~3% of the population consumes at least 25% or more of the current intellectual headspace at any given time

so instead of trying to cure diseases, explore the depths of the ocean, find sources of unlimited energy etc we are bogged down trying to cure the seemingly intractable problems of a tiny number of people who most australians have absolutely no contact with in the first place

the best solution to the abo problem is to just ignore them, then we might actually be able to get something interesting and useful done somewhere else

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by JC Denton on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 3:09pm

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 2:55pm

lee wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 3:01pm:

TGD: We are discussing mobilization of the nation's resources to close the black gap; it's not about "accounting", though the bean-counter thinks it is.

But YOU don't. Such ignorance. ::)

Fraudulent debating: "I don't do" ...what exactly?

...whereas as I notice JC has substantially debated my above proposition; I will reply to his post after disposing of your usual garbage based on your being:

1. fraudulent,
2. ignorant,
3. dumb,
4. or 'merely' ideologically blind.

Quote:

So now you confuse scientists with engineers. Such ignorance. ::)

1. Fraudulent: we both know (unless you ARE in fact dementing), I disabused you of that error previously: the engineers (and politicians) follow the scientific consensus.

Quote:

Of course they do. That's why you have to differentiate between insurable and uninsurable losses. Such ignorance. ::)

Congrats..both 2. ignorance AND 4. blind ideology:
the psychological impact of disaster exists whether you do those things or not.

Quote:

You really don't understand do you.

Hmmm...some explanation to follow? Let's see what you got.....

Quote:

The insurance costs are not unaffordable; and there is no need for central banks to buy them.

Your error - 3. dumb - appears straight away: the insurance costs ARE unaffordable, that's why insurance companies are refusing to insure people, because the risk for the insurance companies are too high - unless those companies charge unaffordable premiums. The BIS is well aware of the ballooning global insurance costs, and suggested central banks will be required to cover them (using their unlimited currency-issuing capacity).

Quote:

People invested people made their money, when the time comes the industries will close. No need for central banks at all. Such ignorance. ::)

2 and 3, resulting in your usual GIGO. Costly weather disasters exist regardless of how "people invest".

Quote:

Ah the government has failed. The socialist wet dream. Such ignorance. ::)

4. ideological blindness:
government is required to avoid the anarchy of blind self-interested "voluntary" (!) agreement between self-interested individuals, the fantasy of Libertarian wet dreams.

Quote:

So now you believe the aboriginals don't pay tax. Such ignorance. ::)

1, 2, 3 and 4!

Some do, some don't; quite apart from the fact the government doesn't NEED their taxes for revenue purposes - see MMT thread today, #549.

Quote:

So tell us how "free government money " will change the current behaviour of giving them "free government money". Such ignorance. ::)

2. ignorance: ...see MMT thread #549. In short, in MMT the money is free FOR the government, and welfare recipients (including the unemployed currently receiving the poverty level dole FROM the goverment), NOT for people who are employed for a wage, whether employed in the public or private sector.

Quote:

And giving them "free government money" will fix that. Such ignorance. ::)

1. 2. 3. 4. Blind instinct hinders law promoting the common welfare.

Quote:

No you say you believe in the consensus. Such ignorance. ::)

3. dumb:
consensus is the method, not the goal (ie the common welfare)

Quote:

No that is just your belief system. Such ignorance. ::)

1. fraudulent.
I DO follow experts like Evatt and Keen, no 'belief' involved. Interestingly, I heard today an Israeli minister claiming Guterres has "no idea of reality"....oh dear....talk about a 'belief' system (.... 'The Chosen People").

Quote:

That is not how science operates; else we would still believe the Earth is the centre of the solar system. Such ignorance. ::)

1 and 3:
science examines reality which is established and continually confirmed - or not, in which case a new reality is established.

Quote:

Nope. You have shown yourself to be a hypocrite. Such ignorance. ::)

1., 2., 3, 4: It is interesting that we looked at the issue of "love", in a thread related to the black gap in Oz; that you accuse me of being a "hypocrite" for despising your blind reptilian-brain-driven ideology which is the cause of endless war and entrenched poverty in the world, would be funny if it was not so tragic for the species.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 3:23pm

JC Denton wrote on Jul 9^th, 2023 at 3:05pm:

"mobilisation of the nations resources to close the black gap" lmao

holy sh1t

this is what i'm talking about

So I will show you don't know what you are talking about, let's see what you got:

Quote:

am i the only who thinks its absolutely batsh1t insane that about ~3% of the population consumes at least 25% or more of the current intellectual headspace at any given time

Untestable propostion. But for the sake of the argument, so what? "Intellectual headspace" is free, ie, only 'thinking time' is involved; and we DO soon have a referendum re a Voice which if passed, will assist in closing the gap, or so it is hoped. Plenty to think about.

Quote:

so instead of trying to cure diseases, explore the depths of the ocean, find sources of unlimited energy etc we are bogged down trying to cure the seemingly intractable problems of a tiny number of people who most australians have absolutely no contact with in the first place

Those activities are continuing....and the nation wants to - indeed must - close the gap. I'm afraid you wont be able to use that argument as reason why we should not work out how to close the gap.

Quote:

the best solution to the abo problem is to just ignore them, then we might actually be able to get something interesting and useful done somewhere else

The whole nation WANTS to close the gap; ignoring the problem is a non-starter.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 3:24pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

I don't do" ...what exactly?

It is about accounting. You just don't believe that it should be accountable. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

I disabused you of that error previously: the engineers (and politicians) follow the scientific consensus.

No. The engineers do the Maths that show whether something is doable and also generally costed. Whereas you say you follow the consensus except when it comes to what is referred as "the dismal science", which in fact is not a science. So with MMT you go to the fringe. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

the psychological impact of disaster exists whether you do those things or not.

You can't pay for psychological suffering. Well you shouldn't with these new kids they are always suffering something. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

So show us the data. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

The BIS is well aware of the ballooning global insurance costs, and suggested central banks will be equired to cover them (using their unlimited currency-issuig capacity).

Wow. Insurance companies going broke in droves? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

Costly weather disasters exist regardless of how "people invest".

That is not fossil fuels. It was your claim that the Fossil Fuel companies may have to be bought. "that central banks might have to buy the filthy fossil industry", so not the insurance industry then. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

government is required to avoid the anarchy of blind self-interested "voluntary" (!) agreement between self-interested individuals, the fantasy of Libertarian wet dreams.

So you want to exchange one wet dream for another. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

Some do, some don't; quite apart from the fact the government doesn't NEED their taxes for revenue purposes

So whitey shouldn't pay taxes either. I thought you previously said that the government needed taxes to keep inflation low. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

In short, in MMT the money is free FOR the government, and welfare recipients (including the unemployed currently receiving the poverty level dole FROM the goverment), NOT for people who are employed for a wage, whether employed in the public or private sector.

Until such time as all the people want the free money. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

Blind instinct hinders law promoting the common welfare.

Nope. But you certainly hope so. Individuals generally aspire to improve themselves. Until such time as they are the only ones left paying. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

consensus is the method, not the goal (ie the common welfare)

Consensus isn't a method for anything. So why do you believe in Consensus for science etc, but not MMT? ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

I DO follow experts like Evatt and Keen, no 'belief' involved.

Seeing as you have no accounting skills you don't have any of the required skill set to understand Economics. So you are merely a sheep following the free lunch. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

science examines reality which is established and continually confirmed - or not, in which case a new reality is established.

And MMT has not been established as real economics. Thank You. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

It is interesting that we looked at the issue of "love", in a thread related to the black gap in Oz; that you accuse me of being a "hypocrite" for despising your blind reptilian-brain-driven ideology which is the cause of endless war and entrenched poverty in the world, would be funny if it was not so tragic for the species.

You haven't proposed anything to protect the species. ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Frank on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:28pm

What are Abos doing to close the gap?

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:51pm

lee wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 3:24pm:

It is about accounting. You just don't believe that it should be accountable. ::)

Nonsense, I know accounting is for bean counters; but policy is for politicians.

Quote:

The engineers do the Maths that show whether something is doable and also generally costed.

Show me where I have denied that...

Quote:

Whereas you say you follow the consensus except when it comes to what is referred as "the dismal science", which in fact is not a science. So with MMT you go to the fringe. ::)

Correct. Economics is not a 'science', but flat-earth neoclassical economists - with their fantastical DSGE models unrelated to the real world - claim it is.

Even though once again inflation, debt, and increasing global poverty have everyone on the seat of their pants, and central bankers acting like sociopaths bent on destroying the lives of people who can least bear higher interest rates and cost-of-living increases.

Quote:

You can't pay for psychological suffering. ~~Well you shouldn't with these new kids they are always suffering something. ::)~~??

Correct. But governments CAN fund rebuilding houses lost in climate catastrophes.

Quote:

So show us the data. ::)

I refer you the BIS/World Bank - they have the relevant data.

Quote:

Wow. Insurance companies going broke in droves? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yes, if weather-disaster costs keep climbing. Meanwhile, people ARE driven into poverty by these disasters, in the absence of timnely government assitance (often based on erroneous "balanced budget" dogma).

Quote:

That is not fossil fuels.

So you say, the scientific and political consensus is against you.

Quote:

It was your claim that the Fossil Fuel companies may have to be bought. "that central banks might have to buy the filthy fossil industry", so not the insurance industry then. ::)

Er... it was a BIS spokesman at Davos who first said it......

Quote:

So you want to exchange one wet dream for another. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

(chuckle...) Your error here: socialism's dream (goal) is common prosperity and collective well-being, achievable in the modern world; Libertarians' dream is everyone agrees to (cough) voluntarily co-operate, without the intervention of "oppressive" government.

Sorry - those blind reptilian brain instincts will prevent voluntary cooperation, so we will have to settle for rule of law, to end war and poverty.

Quote:

So whitey shouldn't pay taxes either.

Not for purpose of government revenue, correct.

Quote:

I thought you previously said that the government needed taxes to keep inflation low. ::)

No, the government might use taxes to reduce purchasing power, depending on the source (demand or supply related) of inflationay pressures.

Quote:

Until such time as all the people want the free money. ::)

er..we all WANT free money all the time...because for most of us, paid work is pretty dead-beat....but paradoxically, losing the job is one of our greatest nightmares, because we know we can't win the lottery.

Enforced involuntary unemployment is the greatest crime of the current neoclassical orthodoxy, hence the need for a Job Guarantee, to eliminate that crime.

Quote:

Nope.

Naturally that is your unconsidered answer, being blinded by neoclassical orthodoxy.

Quote:

But you certainly hope so. Individuals generally aspire to improve themselves. Until such time as they are the only ones left paying. ::)

Ah... the old shop-keeper Thatcherite "socialism works until it runs out of other peoples' money" myth, based on Friedmanite monetarism based on neoliberal markets based on reptilian brain instincts ... we have a problem until MMTers dislodge the flat-earth (or later, geo-centric) mainstreamers.

Quote:

Consensus isn't a method for anything. So why do you believe in Consensus for science etc, but not MMT? ::)

Er.. grass roots consensus at the local level, leading to a consensus meritocracy at the national level as a form of government - one method to achieve the goal of common prosperity. Simple change of central bank rules in the democracies is another method to achieve the same goal.

Quote:

Seeing as you have no accounting skills you don't have any of the required skill set to understand Economics. So you are merely a sheep following the free lunch. ::)

Be that as it may, Keen HAS explained "the free lunch", allowing alternative methods (without taxation) of the nation's resource mobilization, other than outcomes determined by the greed-based 'invisible hand' free market.

Quote:

And MMT has not been established as real economics. Thank You. ::)

Early days. The first Masters-level courses are now beginning around the world, as we are witnessing the failure of mainstrean economics to solve real world problems of the global economy

Quote:

You haven't proposed anything to protect the species. ::)

Have you forgotten already?

Evatt proposed the protection of the species via "eradicating the sourge of war" in the age of MAD.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Brian Ross on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:56pm

Frank wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:28pm:

What are Abos doing to close the gap?

Whom? Stop using a Racist name for the Indigenes of Australia, Soren. They are doing what they can. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 5:07pm

What are the Abos doing toe close their gaps? Look at the way they've developed this

Thousands of years of work there - anyone wanting to take that over will pay a hefty rent, let me tell you

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 5:22pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:56pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:28pm:

What are Abos doing to close the gap?

Whom? Stop using a Racist name for the Indigenes of Australia, Soren. They are doing what they can. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Brian clutches his pearls.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:05pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

Nonsense, I know accounting is for bean counters; but policy is for politicians.

And nothing about economics. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

Show me where I have denied that...

You said " the engineers (and politicians) follow the scientific consensus " which they don't. They do howevcer follow the science. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

Economics is not a 'science', but flat-earth neoclassical economists - with their fantastical DSGE models unrelated to the real world - claim it is.

And you still don't follow the consensus but the fringe. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

But governments CAN fund rebuilding houses lost in climate catastrophes.

Why? Buying your first, second etc home isn't funded by government. If people want to build on flood plains that is their responsibility. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

I refer you the BIS/World Bank - they have the relevant data.

So you can't show the data of insurance companies going broke. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

Yes, if weather-disaster costs keep climbing.

So it hasn't happened. Just more waffle from you. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

Meanwhile, people ARE driven into poverty by these disasters, in the absence of timnely government assitance (often based on erroneous "balanced budget" dogma).

And you don't provide evidence of that, either. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

So you say, the scientific and political consensus is against you.

"Costly weather disasters exist regardless of how "people invest". "

Even you say it. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

Er... it was a BIS spokesman at Davos who first said it......

So then you should have no trouble providing that reference. It doesn't seem available.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

Your error here: socialism's dream (goal) is common prosperity and collective well-being, achievable in the modern world;

The wet dream. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

Not for purpose of government revenue, correct.

So we don't need to pay taxes. Well done. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

No, the government might use taxes to reduce purchasing power, depending on the source (demand or supply related) of inflationay pressures.

The wet dream lives. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

er..we all WANT free money all the time...

Er... No we don't. I worked for my money. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

The new MMT'ers the very FRINGE of economics. So not the consensus then. ;D ;D ;D ;D

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

Ah now he has merely "explained". Not "proved". ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

Early days.

And you want to be in early in the gravy before it dries. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:51pm:

Evatt proposed the protection of the species via "eradicating the sourge of war" in the age of MAD.

Another Utopian dream. There will ALWAYS be people who want more, who believe only they can lead. Or who want to get in on the ground floor as acolytes. (very profitably) ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:17pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:56pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:28pm:

What are Abos doing to close the gap?

Whom? Stop using a Racist name for the Indigenes of Australia, Soren. They are doing what they can. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Anyone born here is Indigenes of Australia.

Over 95% of those claiming to be Aboriginal have more non Aboriginal blood than Aboriginal.

::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Brian Ross on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:39pm

Bobby. wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 5:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:56pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:28pm:

What are Abos doing to close the gap?

Whom? Stop using a Racist name for the Indigenes of Australia, Soren. They are doing what they can. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Brian clutches his pearls.

Bobby shows his Racist credentials. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Brian Ross on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:40pm

Gnads wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:56pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:28pm:

What are Abos doing to close the gap?

Whom? Stop using a Racist name for the Indigenes of Australia, Soren. They are doing what they can. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Anyone born here is Indigenes of Australia.

Over 95% of those claiming to be Aboriginal have more non Aboriginal blood than Aboriginal.

Spoken like a true Racist there, Gnads. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:41pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:40pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:56pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:28pm:

What are Abos doing to close the gap?

Whom? Stop using a Racist name for the Indigenes of Australia, Soren. They are doing what they can. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Anyone born here is Indigenes of Australia.

Over 95% of those claiming to be Aboriginal have more non Aboriginal blood than Aboriginal.

Spoken like a true Racist there, Gnads. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

You're just a denier of the truth.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Brian Ross on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:44pm

Gnads wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:41pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:40pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:56pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:28pm:

What are Abos doing to close the gap?

Whom? Stop using a Racist name for the Indigenes of Australia, Soren. They are doing what they can. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Anyone born here is Indigenes of Australia.

Over 95% of those claiming to be Aboriginal have more non Aboriginal blood than Aboriginal.

Spoken like a true Racist there, Gnads. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

You're just a denier of the truth.

You do your best to champion Racist concepts unfortunatey. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Frank on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:58pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:44pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:41pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:40pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:56pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:28pm:

What are Abos doing to close the gap?

Whom? Stop using a Racist name for the Indigenes of Australia, Soren. They are doing what they can. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Anyone born here is Indigenes of Australia.

Over 95% of those claiming to be Aboriginal have more non Aboriginal blood than Aboriginal.

Spoken like a true Racist there, Gnads. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

You're just a denier of the truth.

You do your best to champion Racist concepts unfortunatey. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Explain what is racist about

'Over 95% of those claiming to be Aboriginal have more non Aboriginal blood than Aboriginal.'

Go on, you have a doctorate, Auntie Bbwian, it should be easy. Tut tutting and eyerolling won't do.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 7:34pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:44pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:41pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:40pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:56pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:28pm:

What are Abos doing to close the gap?

Whom? Stop using a Racist name for the Indigenes of Australia, Soren. They are doing what they can. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Anyone born here is Indigenes of Australia.

Over 95% of those claiming to be Aboriginal have more non Aboriginal blood than Aboriginal.

Spoken like a true Racist there, Gnads. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

You're just a denier of the truth.

You do your best to champion Racist concepts unfortunatey. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

In your lame arsed opinion.

And you ... in relevant terms ...would not have a phukking clue.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Brian Ross on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 9:01pm

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 9:33pm

Poor Bwiann. The lackwit.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 10:09pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 5:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:56pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:28pm:

What are Abos doing to close the gap?

Whom? Stop using a Racist name for the Indigenes of Australia, Soren. They are doing what they can. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Brian clutches his pearls.

Bobby shows his Racist credentials. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Brian Ross on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 10:38pm

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 10:44pm

Brian clutches his pearls.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Brian Ross on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 10:52pm

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 5:06am

Brian, my great-great-grandmother is an indigenous Australian, I demand you show me respect.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 10:05am

Frank wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:28pm:

What are Abos doing to close the gap?

Er ..the activists are re-claiming as much land as they can.

In the hope that will close the gap.

Meantime the High Court hasn't determined how two sovereignties can exist side by side.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Frank on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 10:54am

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 10:05am:

Frank wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:28pm:

What are Abos doing to close the gap?

Er ..the activists are re-claiming as much land as they can.

In the hope that will close the gap.

Meantime the High Court hasn't determined how two sovereignties can exist side by side.

How does that work in closing the 'gap'?

You can't have two sovereignties. Sovereign means the one that reigns above.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:07am

lee wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 6:05pm:

And nothing about economics. ::)

Er ...politics IS about economics (but not accounting, which is for bean counters).

"It's the economy, stupid".

See how easily I destroy your erroneous arguments.

Quote:

You said " the engineers (and politicians) follow the scientific consensus " which they don't. They do howevcer follow the science. ::)

False differentiation; which is why both are following the IPCC consensus.

Quote:

And you still don't follow the consensus but the fringe. ::)

You are confused: the world is following the IPCC consensus; and today eg, Charlie and Biden - both with some international clout - agreed "private companies have to step up more to deal with climate change".

But they are ignoring the fact Shell says ; "we can't make money out of renewables".

Hence the public sector will be required to manage the timely transition to renewables. And eventually the "fringe" MMT penny will drop, as the problem becomes ever more pressing.

Quote:

Why? Buying your first, second etc home isn't funded by government. If people want to build on flood plains that is their responsibility. ::)

We are talking weather disasters, which insurance companies don't want to cover at affordable premiums. And it's the governmnent's responsibility to regulate building zones. See where your sociopathic 'survival of the fittest' /"freedom values" leads you?

Quote:

So you can't show the data of insurance companies going broke. ::)

See the IMF/ World Bank data.

Quote:

So it hasn't happened. Just more waffle from you. ::)

Er.. floods, droughts and heat causing $billions in damages all around the world - NOW; at least try to keep abreast of the news.

Quote:

And you don't provide evidence of that, either. ::)

Now we know you don't watch TV or listen to radio. .

Quote:

"Costly weather disasters exist regardless of how "people invest". "

Even you say it. ::)

Correct: your penchant for arguing my case rears its confused head again.

Quote:

So then you should have no trouble providing that reference. It doesn't seem available.

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/rba-could-called-buy-australias-020130601.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAMVa2DpPmc6dwhLZQz1qrZVWnMaNnSQNLhK78xlqFi9Ylai5DcZjRgfX6cai7JulBhjqY34oWk8fNEd2zaf0jeE9XsxEKUNMAc57nLYlVoQA52z20gGKBSlMGlGkB-3pgGbGsEamOAlhmzqzRt3QPuFPAGEgQhxYbKGKgEQ2Fm_t

The RBA could buy Australia's coal mines and dirty power plants as a last resort to save the environment and the economy

Quote:

TGD: common prosperity and collective well-being, achievable in the modern world

The wet dream. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

According to a neanderthal 'survival of fittest' ideologue.

Quote:

So we don't need to pay taxes.

Not for purposes of raising government revenue, correct.

Quote:

The wet dream lives. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

According to a 'survival of the fittest /"freeom" ideologue.

Quote:

Er... No we don't. I worked for my money. ::)

Have you ever wanted to win the big lottery? Case closed.....

Of course, losing one's job is the greatest nightmare for many people, even though many people hate their job.

And since we all need a job to prosper, a Job Guarantee is necesary. (for all excpet those who can only survive in a sheltered workshop).

Quote:

The new MMT'ers the very FRINGE of economics. So not the consensus then. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Stay tuned: several academic institutions around the globe will soon be graduating Masters in sustainable economics and Modern Money.

Quote:

Ah now he has merely "explained". Not "proved". ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Explaining how government can fund itself without taxing/borrowing from the private sector is Keen's challenge. Your horror- and misunderstanding - of "free money" is a consequence of your 'survival of the fittest' ideology.

Quote:

TGD "Evatt proposed the protection of the species via "eradicating the sourge of war" in the age of MAD.

Another Utopian dream. There will ALWAYS be people who want more, who believe only they can lead. Or who want to get in on the ground floor as acolytes. (very profitably) ::)

Yes, but rule of law can sort them out, and also deal with your neanderthal 'survival of the fittest' instincts,
so we can avoid being doomed to extinction in a nuclear-arms race accident.

You accused me of being a hypocrite for not loving you; but your 'survival of the fittest' ideology risks the extinction of the species. Good one.

Neverlone dooms us to endless wars and entrenched poverty...and facing the egregious black gap ---to get back to the topic.

Just listening to the radio: "Socio-economic circumstances determine life expectancy".....

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:33am

Frank wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 10:54am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 10:05am:

Frank wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 4:28pm:

What are Abos doing to close the gap?

Er ..the activists are re-claiming as much land as they can.

In the hope that will close the gap.

Meantime the High Court hasn't determined how two sovereignties can exist side by side.

How does that work in closing the 'gap'?

"Land is wealth"... so ask the black activists who claim 2 sovereignties must exist in Oz.

Quote:

You can't have two sovereignties. Sovereign means the one that reigns above.

The High Court hasn't dealt with that yet, it's only dealt with Mabo.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:35am

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 9:01pm:

Some times certain people only deserve vulgarity.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Frank on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:37am

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:33am:

"Land is wealth"... so ask the black activists who claim 2 sovereignties must exist in Oz.

:D :D :D

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 1:21pm

Frank wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:37am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:33am:

"Land is wealth"... so ask the black activists who claim 2 sovereignties must exist in Oz.

:D :D :D

Are you game to take the 'equal sovereignty' issue to the High Court?

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Frank on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 1:55pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 1:21pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:37am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:33am:

"Land is wealth"... so ask the black activists who claim 2 sovereignties must exist in Oz.

:D :D :D

Are you game to take the 'equal sovereignty' issue to the High Court?

There is no equal sovereignty.
There is no Aboriginal state, high court, government, nation, sovereign entity.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Brian Ross on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 2:02pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 5:06am:

Brian, my great-great-grandmother is an indigenous Australian, I demand you show me respect.

Show me where I haven't shown you respect, Unsub. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Brian Ross on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 2:03pm

Gnads wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:35am:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2023 at 9:01pm:

Some times certain people only deserve vulgarity.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Agness on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 2:05pm

Bobby. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 9:28pm:

Agnes. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2023 at 9:05pm:

"We" lost Ulru- are you morons kidding me- who the fck owns it ?

It belongs to everyone- dickheads!!!

I'm voting-------- :-X

It's already started -2

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12253585/Sydney-Harbour-Goat-Island-Mel-handed-Indigenous-Australians.html

Heritage-listed island in the heart of Sydney Harbour to be handed back to Indigenous Australians -
with a $43million promise

Goat Island will be transferred to Aboriginal ownership
The island is located in Sydney Harbour

By Ashley Nickel For Daily Mail Australia

Published: 19:07 AEST, 1 July 2023 | Updated: 21:03 AEST, 1 July 2023

and we all go ga ga over goat island huh- bet none of you even knew about it prior to all of this? now its all of a sudden so important to you. LOL :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D

We need a voice to shut you lot up- this whole thing makes me sick.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Laugh till you cry on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 2:23pm

Uluru was never under the ownership of whites, poms, or closet poms.

You can't lose something you don't own.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 2:50pm

Frank wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 1:55pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 1:21pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:37am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:33am:

"Land is wealth"... so ask the black activists who claim 2 sovereignties must exist in Oz.

:D :D :D

Are you game to take the 'equal sovereignty' issue to the High Court?

There is no equal sovereignty.
There is no Aboriginal state, high court, government, nation, sovereign entity.

Should aboriginal "sovereignty" activists take it to the High Court?

I believe they should, but if they won't (for fear of losing); then less extreme leaders of the Yes and No 'Voice" should do so...but they are probably also afraid of losing a court case re "sovereignty".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Indigenous_sovereignty#:~:text=In%20Coe%20v%20Commonwealth%20(1979,nations%22%20of%20the%20US%20by

So...no aboriginal 'sovereignty', the black 'sovereignty' activists not-withstanding; they are harming their own cause for closing the gap.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 2:55pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

Er ...politics IS about economics (but not accounting, which is for bean counters).

Nope it is about politics. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

which is why both are following the IPCC consensus.

No they aren't. But keep telling yourself different. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

the world is following the IPCC consensus; and today eg, Charlie and Biden - both with some international clout - agreed "private companies have to step up more to deal with climate change".

Wow. Big Ears and Noddy. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

And eventually the "fringe" MMT penny will drop, as the problem becomes ever more pressing.

Still clinging to the fringe when on other things you want consensus. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

We are talking weather disasters, which insurance companies don't want to cover at affordable premiums.

They still do cover them at affordable premiums. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

And it's the governmnent's responsibility to regulate building zones

The towns have been there since it was for river traffic. Nothing to do with current government regulations; and in the old days there were no building regulations. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

See the IMF/ World Bank data.

So you don't know. Why is that not surprising. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

Er.. floods, droughts and heat causing $billions in damages all around the world - NOW; at least try to keep abreast of the news.

And it has gone up less than the GDP. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

Now we know you don't watch TV or listen to radio. .

Now we know you can't find the data. ::)

There is this -

"One of the world’s largest banking regulators has issued a call to central banks to push governments to introduce strong policies to mitigate global warming, warning that groups like the Reserve Bank of Australia may be left to bail out a fossil fuel industry left with stranded assets."

But it links to a research note that does not say that.

https://www.bis.org/publ/othp31.htm

Just RenewEnergy gilding the lily. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

your penchant for arguing my case rears its confused head again.

And nothing to do with your claim of fossil fuels. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/rba-could-called-buy-australias-020130601.html?gucco...

The RBA could buy Australia's coal mines and dirty power plants as a last resort to save the environment and the economy

As I pointed out the report did not say that. Why do you insist on newspaper headlines rather than the actual papert? ::)
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

Have you ever wanted to win the big lottery? Case closed.....

I buy tickets. It is therefore not "free". ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

several academic institutions around the globe will soon be graduating Masters in sustainable economics and Modern Money.

Sometime in the future? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

Explaining how government can fund itself without taxing/borrowing from the private sector is Keen's challenge

Explaining how something might work is not proving, which was your initial claim. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

Yes, but rule of law can sort them out, and also deal with your neanderthal 'survival of the fittest' instincts,
so we can avoid being doomed to extinction in a nuclear-arms race accident.

The rule of law does not even work in the every day world. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

You accused me of being a hypocrite for not loving you; but your 'survival of the fittest' ideology risks the extinction of the species. Good one.

And still no detail on how the species may go extinct. Extinction is something that may occur simply because numpties don't know how to make things. Like fire. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

Just listening to the radio: "Socio-economic circumstances determine life expectancy".....

And? ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 6:47pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 2:23pm:

Uluru was never under the ownership of whites, poms, or closet poms.

You can't lose something you don't own.

Exactly .... tell that to the blackfellas ... they didn't own it either you moron.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm

lee wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

Nope it is about politics. ::)

Wrong: "It's the economy, stupid".

Quote:

Wow. Big Ears and Noddy.

Yes, plus all the nations of the UN, and most of the general population....but not Shell.....

Quote:

Still clinging to the fringe when on other things you want consensus. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Funny you talking about "fringes", when temp. records and weather disasters - which most everyone is blaming on "climate change" - are daily occurrences now. Do try to keep up.

Quote:

They still do cover them at affordable premiums. ::)

...depending on where you live....see how easy your stupidity is to refute?

Quote:

TGD And it's the governmnent's responsibility to regulate building zones

The towns have been there since it was for river traffic. Nothing to do with current government regulations; and in the old days there were no building regulations. ::)

..which doesn't discount what I said, see how easy it is to refute your stupidity.

Quote:

So you don't know. Why is that not surprising. ::)

You're the bean counter, I would have thought you would be interested into looking into the actual figures on which the BIS at Davos based their revelations re increasing insurance costs. That the numbers are huge, as they stated at Davos, is all the rest of us want or need to know.

Quote:

And it has gone up less than the GDP. ::)

Funny; half the US population - including those who have been wiped out by weather catastrophes in the last decade - are living paycheck to paycheck; they don't care if global GDP, which is increasaingly going into the pockets of billionaires, is increasing faster than the costs of weather catastrophes. And that's in the wealthiest nation on the planet.

Meanwhile half of Pakistan, with per capita gdp less than $2K, was flooded last year, so now gdp per capita is falling..see how your blindness turns you into a 'survival of the fittest' monster...

ie, see how the bean-counter loses the prosperity argument again? ...blinded by 'survival of the fittest' instincts as usual.

Quote:

Correct, arguing my case again....I wish you would stop doing that, it's embarrassing for you - and for me, seeing as I'm apparently wasting time on a complete idiot.

Quote:

But it links to a research note that does not say that.

https://www.bis.org/publ/othp31.htm

Just RenewEnergy gilding the lily. ::)

Show us the sentence asserting that (necessarily) stranded fossil assets are "RenewEnergy gilding the lilly".

Quote:

"The RBA could buy Australia's coal mines and dirty power plants as a last resort to save the environment and the economy"

As I pointed out the report did not say that.

And as I pointed out, you are wrong. What part of "one of the world's largest banking regulators..." don't you understand?

Quote:

I buy tickets. It is therefore not "free". ::)

Peanuts, while you are picturing winning the big bucks (...."free" money...)

Why is it so......your job not paying enough?

Quote:

Sometime in the future?

The study places have already been filled, the graduates will emerge soon.

Quote:

Explaining how something might work is not proving, which was your initial claim. ::)

Because you reject Keen's D-E accounting method, so I'll settle for the explanation. Most real accountants would find Keen's D-E diagram to be "impeccable" (to borrow Keynes' term re govt. money creation, later adopted in MMT), if they came across it....but most of them won't because they dont know macro-economics.

Quote:

The rule of law does not even work in the every day world. ::)

At last you are revealing yourself, with all the grotesque ugliness of 'survival of the fittest '/'freedom values ideology based on Neanderthal instincts.

You are correct in so far as rule of (civilizing) law is a progressive project, fighting to overcome the Neanderthal law of the jungle, but there it is.

Quote:

And still no detail on how the species may go extinct. Extinction is something that may occur simply because numpties don't know how to make things. Like fire. ::)

And also because Neanderthals living in the age of MAD are capable of mistakes....even though Einstein warned the global war after the next would be fought with sticks and stones .....

Of course -- no probs; revealing the ugliness of your contempt for life.

Quote:

"Socio-economic circumstances determine life expectancy".....

And? ::)

Simple-minded 'survival of the fittest' brain can't connect the dots.....

We need to close a black gap in Oz. Egregious socio-economic circumstances are a basis of that gap.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Frank on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:33pm

Abos - earn respect.

Enough of demanding unearned respect. Being fossilised for millennia is no basis for any respect.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:56pm

Frank wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:33pm:

Abos - earn respect.

Enough of demanding unearned respect. Being fossilised for millennia is no basis for any respect.

Respect is a two-way process: "we smashed their culture" (Keating).... and now they are fighting back.

Both side will have to earn respect, going forward.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Frank on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:59pm

When one has lived for quite a long time in a particular
civilization 1 and has often tried to discover what its origins
were and along what path it has developed, one sometimes
also feels tempted to take a glance in the other direction and
to ask what further fate lies before it and what transformations
it is destined to undergo. But one soon finds that the value of
such an enquiry is diminished from the outset by several
factors. Above all, because there are only a few people who can
survey human activity in its full compass. Most people have
been obliged to restrict themselves to a single, or a few, fields
of it. But the less a man knows about the past and the present
the more insecure must prove to be his judgement of the future.
And there is the further difficulty that precisely in a judgement
of this kind the subjective expectations of the individual play a
part which it is difficult to assess; and these turn out to be
dependent on purely personal factors in his own experience, on
the greater or lesser optimism of his attitude to life, as it has been
dictated for him by his temperament or by his success or failure.
Finally, the curious fact makes itself felt that in general people
experience their present naively, as it were, without being able
to form an estimate of its contents; they have first to put them-
selves at a distance from it — the present, that is to say, must
have become the past — before it can yield points of vantage
from which to judge the future.
Freud, the future of an illusion.

Aboriginal culture is an illusion without a future.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 10:18pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

Wrong: "It's the economy, stupid".

That is only a small part of politics. That you think it is the total roles is mildly amusing. ;)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

Yes, plus all the nations of the UN, and most of the general population...

So you have the stats of people who want to pay for climate change? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

Funny you talking about "fringes", when temp. records and weather disasters - which most everyone is blaming on "climate change" - are daily occurrences now.

Daily occurrences. Your lies keep tripping you up. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

.depending on where you live..

So where do you live that you can't afford insurance? i feel your pain. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

..which doesn't discount what I said,

You haven't set any parameters. Geez you are failing badly. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

That the numbers are huge, as they stated at Davos, is all the rest of us want or need to know.

So you're caterwauling about numbers you don't know. You really are losing it. Remember the graphic I posted the record was back in 2011, which is not recent. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

Wow. How bizarre talking about the US in an Aboriginal thread. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

Meanwhile half of Pakistan, with per capita gdp less than $2K, was flooded last year, so now gdp per capita is falling..

And monsoons have been going on forever. Not climate change. ::)

.
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

Correct, arguing my case again....I wish you would stop doing that, it's embarrassing for you

No because I give both sides. You just your view. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

Show us the sentence asserting that (necessarily) stranded fossil assets are "RenewEnergy gilding the lilly".

Show us the sentence where they explain the central banks may have to buy the fossil fuel companies. This is the link. -
https://www.bis.org/publ/othp31.htm ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

And as I pointed out, you are wrong. What part of "one of the world's largest banking regulators..."

The report doesn't say that. And you can't show that. What a fraud.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

Peanuts, while you are picturing winning the big bucks (...."free" money...)

The only "peanut" is you. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

The study places have already been filled, the graduates will emerge soon.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

Because you reject Keen's D-E accounting method, so I'll settle for the explanation. Most real accountants would find Keen's D-E diagram to be "impeccable" (to borrow Keynes' term re govt. money creation, later adopted in MMT), if they came across it....but most of them won't because they dont know macro-economics.

So NO proof. About time you admitted it. His program makes assumptions. Assumptions make his method a model. A model that has not been verified. You don't know any economics Micro or Macro. ::)
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

You are correct in so far as rule of (civilizing) law is a progressive project, fighting to overcome the Neanderthal law of the jungle, but there it is.

So you lied. Well done. ::)
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

Of course -- no probs; revealing the ugliness of your contempt for life.

Just your socialism -alarmism. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

We need to close a black gap in Oz. Egregious socio-economic circumstances are a basis of that gap.

Aided and abetted by do gooders who don't know better. ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:17am

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 2:02pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 5:06am:

Brian, my great-great-grandmother is an indigenous Australian, I demand you show me respect.

Show me where I haven't shown you respect, Unsub. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

The "tsk, tsk, tsks" at the end of your posts. And the usual eyerolls, for starters.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 5:26am

Argument strands coming together - nobody made Ayers Rock/Uluru - hand it back so that nobody owns it, as was rightly the case.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Brian Ross on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 12:28pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:17am:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 2:02pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 5:06am:

Brian, my great-great-grandmother is an indigenous Australian, I demand you show me respect.

Show me where I haven't shown you respect, Unsub. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

The "tsk, tsk, tsks" at the end of your posts. And the usual eyerolls, for starters.

They are not intended to disrespect you, personally, Unsub just your opinions. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 12:35pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 5:26am:

Argument strands coming together - nobody made Ayers Rock/Uluru - hand it back so that nobody owns it, as was rightly the case.

I like that argument; but when religion is involved, things get messy... nobody owns St Peters in Rome; it's the heritage of mankind, but don't tell the Catholic Church...

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 12:46pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 12:35pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 5:26am:

Argument strands coming together - nobody made Ayers Rock/Uluru - hand it back so that nobody owns it, as was rightly the case.

I like that argument; but when religion is involved, things get messy... nobody owns St Peters in Rome; it's the heritage of mankind, but don't tell the Catholic Church...

I dunno - who built St Peters, Bill? Doesn't mean that people don't get to climb around inside it for the fabulous views etc... now about Ayers Rock.

You'll have to pardon me - first full day out of cardio bypass and you know how hospitals give you so much time to think...

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:44pm

lee wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 10:18pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

Wrong: "It's the economy, stupid".

That is only a small part of politics. That you think it is the total roles is mildly amusing. ;)

Er....Marx, Lenin...and Thatcher with her 'other people's money' delusion, would say economics is the bulk of politics. (And I recall a woman in China saying her husband was following the last US election, but she was more interested in running her shop - couldn't give a stuff about political partisanship).

"It's the economy, stupid" ...but you are stupid....

Quote:

So you have the stats of people who want to pay for climate change? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

No, I just know people want to transition to renewables, given daily weather record-breaking and disasters, do try to keep up.

Quote:

Daily occurrences. Your lies keep tripping you up. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I listen to the news daily. Do try to keep up.

Quote:

So where do you live that you can't afford insurance? i feel your pain. ::)

You feel pain/empathy? Pass....(Lismore?)

Quote:

You haven't set any parameters. Geez you are failing badly. ::)

The bean counter strikes again.

Quote:

So you're caterwauling about numbers you don't know.

The BIS said they were huge. I believe them, since they are a "major global bank regulatory body."

Quote:

Wow. How bizarre talking about the US in an Aboriginal thread. ::)

Can't connect the dots....(we already know that); and why are you devoting so much time refuting the Davos BIS declarations re AGW costs , in a Voice thread?

Quote:

And monsoons have been going on forever. Not climate change. ::)

And you are satisfied with your own comforts, while Pakistan's gdp per capita goes backward as a result.

Quote:

No because I give both sides. You just your view. ::)

But your view is always wrong as I proved.

Quote:

Show us the sentence where they explain the central banks may have to buy the fossil fuel companies. This is the link. -
https://www.bis.org/publ/othp31.htm ::)

I already supplied the link re what a BIS spokesman at Davos said.

Quote:

The report doesn't say that. And you can't show that.

Your own quote said it...when you were "showing both sides", oh dear....

Quote:

The only "peanut" is you. ::)

Diversion and failure to address the point; you don't understand the difference between free governement money, and free money for you.

Quote:

So NO proof. About time you admitted it.

His argument is "impeccable": JM Keynes. Your objections are laughable, for their ignorance.

Quote:

TGD: You are correct in so far as rule of (civilizing) law is a progressive project, fighting to overcome the Neanderthal law of the jungle, but there it is.

So you lied. Well done. ::)

You won't be able to identify the 'lie'....because you are blinded by neanderthal instincts, and hence believe rule of law doesn't work, forgetting rule of law is required to avoid anarchy; it's a matter of how much anarchy you want in the world, to satisfy your own sorry a*se. But give it a shot ( ie identify the 'lie'), and I will explain your error, as always.

Quote:

Just your socialism -alarmism. ::)

Yes...and even Einstein was alarmed...

Quote:

Aided and abetted by do gooders who don't know better. ::)

People who want to close the gap - the large majority of the population - are not "do gooders", they believe in the 'common welfare'.

The people who don't know better are the neoclassical flat-earthers and central bank criminals denying the truth about money creation, on behalf of the interests of the powerful in society. See the latest post in the MMT thread posted by Ajax.

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1645944963/new

#553.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Bobby. on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 2:01pm

It will never be enough:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW5Nebs3TFA

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 2:53pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

Er....Marx, Lenin...and Thatcher with her 'other people's money' delusion, would say economics is the bulk of politics.

Which of course doesn't make it so. But if it were true then politics is NOT economics. Thanks for making my point. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

No, I just know people want to transition to renewables, given daily weather record-breaking and disasters, do try to keep up.

So another subjective answer and no evidence as backup. Typical. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

I listen to the news daily.

Ah yes. The media. Not the science. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

You feel pain/empathy? Pass....(Lismore?)

Are you in Lismore? Do they still have those shed at the showgrounds filled with donated goods? I saw the pictures yesterday at my Evacuation Planning meeting. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

The bean counter strikes again.

But you must have parameters, or assumptions if you prefer, to model costs. Which is what Keen does. So you mean Keen is not a bean counter? How the hell does he calculate things? ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

The BIS said they were huge. I believe them, since they are a "major global bank regulatory body."

Quote:

But they said nothing about central banks buying fossil fuel companies. That was your claim, quoting RenewEnergy and similar. And it is all model based. The models that are not Initialised and not verified nor validated.::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

and why are you devoting so much time refuting the Davos BIS declarations re AGW costs , in a Voice thread?

You were the first one to mention Davos. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

And you are satisfied with your own comforts, while Pakistan's gdp per capita goes backward as a result.

You haven't made case for Pakistan's GDP going permanently backwards. Weather is just that. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

But your view is always wrong as I proved.

You, Like Keen, have proved nothing. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

I already supplied the link re what a BIS spokesman at Davos said.

I provided the actual report. So which wins the report or someone's interpretation of the report? ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

Your own quote said it...when you were "showing both sides",

The report doesn't say what you said it says. Oh dear indeed. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

ou don't understand the difference between free governement money, and free money for you.

Buying tickets is not "free money". There are many ticket purchases without revenue from them. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

His argument is "impeccable":

And he cannot back it up. ::)

"It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong." Feynman

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

You won't be able to identify the 'lie'....

I already did. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

Yes...and even Einstein was alarmed...

Was he? ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

People who want to close the gap - the large majority of the population - are not "do gooders", they believe in the 'common welfare'.

They have failed spectacularly. ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 6:57pm

lee wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 2:53pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

Er....Marx, Lenin...and Thatcher with her 'other people's money' delusion, would say economics is the bulk of politics.

....then politics is NOT economics. Thanks for making my point. ::)

er..'please explain'; your upside-down reasoning is notorious...

Fact remains: "It's the economy stupid", as a well known politician said.

Quote:

So another subjective answer and no evidence as backup. Typical. ::)

I'm just the messenger (of media reports), do try to keep up.

Quote:

Ah yes. The media. Not the science. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The majority media is reporting the science accepted from the UN IPCC consensus down.

Quote:

Are you in Lismore?

Where I live is totally irrelevant; but since you have the empathy of a rock, I won't bother explaining WHY it's irrelevant.

Quote:

But you must have parameters, or assumptions if you prefer, to model costs. Which is what Keen does. So you mean Keen is not a bean counter? How the hell does he calculate things? ::)

Keen can put on EITHER hat, as required, unlike you - the supreme heartless bean counter.

Quote:

But they said nothing about central banks buying fossil fuel companies.

I will have to stop here, until you acknowledge you actually quoted the passage in which "a major global bank regulatory institution" said that very thing.

A good place to stop in fact, because the rest of your post is time wasting low-grade argumentation for the sake of argument.

eg

Quote:

Was he? ::)

Yes, obviously, that's why Einstein uttered his famous warning.

and

Quote:

They have failed spectacularly. ::)

because they are captured by neoclassical money creation mythology.

In fact their eyes will be opened when the need for a Job Guarantee to close the gap becomes apparent.

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning". Henry Ford

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 7:17pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 6:57pm:

"It's the economy stupid", as a well known politician said.

And what was the context? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

And no it wasn't a politician.

"The economy, stupid" is a phrase that was coined by James Carville in 1992. It is often quoted from a televised quip by Carville as "It's the economy, stupid." "

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 6:57pm:

I'm just the messenger (of media reports), do try to keep up.

Ah yes the media. Whatever sound bite works for the sheeple. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 6:57pm:

The majority media is reporting the science accepted from the UN IPCC consensus down.

And yet I have shown you what the science says. Which means they, like you, are lying. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 6:57pm:

Keen can put on EITHER hat, as required

And still can't prove MMT, which was your claim. So lying again. You are such a recidivist. ::)

... And TGD offer no rebuttal to the rest. ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 8:49pm

This is a laugh a minute....... State of Origin ...

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 11:08pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 12:28pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:17am:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 2:02pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 5:06am:

Brian, my great-great-grandmother is an indigenous Australian, I demand you show me respect.

Show me where I haven't shown you respect, Unsub. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

The "tsk, tsk, tsks" at the end of your posts. And the usual eyerolls, for starters.

They are not intended to disrespect you, personally, Unsub just your opinions. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

I demand that you show my opinions respect, Brian.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Brian Ross on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 11:38pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 11:08pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 12:28pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 1:17am:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 2:02pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 11^th, 2023 at 5:06am:

Brian, my great-great-grandmother is an indigenous Australian, I demand you show me respect.

Show me where I haven't shown you respect, Unsub. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

The "tsk, tsk, tsks" at the end of your posts. And the usual eyerolls, for starters.

They are not intended to disrespect you, personally, Unsub just your opinions. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

I demand that you show my opinions respect, Brian.

Yeah, yeah, sure, Unsub, the moment you bother to post one that is worth respecting. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 11:44pm

Respect me! My indigenous heritage demands it!

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Brian Ross on Jul 13^th, 2023 at 1:07pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 11:44pm:

Respect me! My indigenous heritage demands it!

Run along, stop being a silly man. When you post something worth taking notice of, I have tended to take it seriously and respect it, Unsub. Stop masquerading under a cloak of Indigenousness, it doesn't become you... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 13^th, 2023 at 4:40pm

Racist! Racist! Brian is racist!

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Brian Ross on Jul 13^th, 2023 at 4:55pm

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 13^th, 2023 at 6:05pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 12^th, 2023 at 8:49pm:

This is a laugh a minute....... State of Origin ...

Glad you are enjoying it, but it seems Lee is brain-damaged, as well as blindly motivated by neanderthal survival instincts which inform his 'everyman for himself'/'survival of the fittest' ideology.

He actually quoted the sentence in which it was reported that the global bank regulator (BIS) said (at Davos, a few years back): "central banks (- with their unlimited currency issuing capacity - my edit) might have to buy the fossil industry" , to cover the costs of private sector companies' stranded fossil fuel assets, and rising insurance costs due to increasing weather catastrophes, totalling many $trillions.

Yet now he is denying the BIS said it; when obviously what he is actually saying is he disagrees with what the BIS are saying.

Brain damage?

Meanwhile, on topic , he reckons people who want to close the black gap are "do-gooders"... a variation on your theme of "the abos should help themselves or f*ck off".

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 13^th, 2023 at 6:24pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 13^th, 2023 at 6:05pm:

NOPE. What was reported was that BIS had said it. But a review of the actual report, which I linked for you, shows that is not what was said. In other words they straight out lied. And you by repeating the lie became another liar. But that is nothing unusual for you. ::)

The full report you lying twit.

https://www.bis.org/publ/othp31.pdf

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Laugh till you cry on Jul 13^th, 2023 at 6:39pm

lee wrote on Jul 13^th, 2023 at 6:24pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 13^th, 2023 at 6:05pm:

If Denizen Lee lost his mind it would be no loss at all. It's still in its original wrappings.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Jul 13^th, 2023 at 6:42pm

Don't worry about Ayers Rock, Mt Warning and such - the governments will be saying they made mistakes - they will be coming back to us all as required in a democracy of equals.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 13^th, 2023 at 6:43pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jul 13^th, 2023 at 6:39pm:

If Denizen Lee lost his mind it would be no loss at all. It's still in its original wrappings.

Unlike yours which is seriously deteriorated. ::)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 14^th, 2023 at 4:41pm

lee wrote on Jul 13^th, 2023 at 6:24pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 13^th, 2023 at 6:05pm:

NOPE. What was reported was that BIS had said it.

Correct, and that's all I wanted from you: an acknowledgement they said it, after I posted the link -which you asked for - confirming they said it.

Quote:

But a review of the actual report, which I linked for you, shows that is not what was said. In other words they straight out lied.

So, one of the world's global banking regulators "straight out lied"...says brain damaged Lee. Good one....

Quote:

The full report you lying twit.

No need to read it; neoclassical flat-earthers like you infest every banking institution in the world.

Interestingly, I recall the Coalition Treasurer at the time saying "it ain't going to happen" ie he would not be authorizing the RBA to buy the Oz fossil industry.

No surprises there....

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by lee on Jul 14^th, 2023 at 6:37pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 14^th, 2023 at 4:41pm:

Correct, and that's all I wanted from you: an acknowledgement they said it, after I posted the link -which you asked for - confirming they said it.

BIS didn't say it doofus. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 14^th, 2023 at 4:41pm:

So, one of the world's global banking regulators "straight out lied"...says brain damaged Lee.

No Dummy. The media who misquoted BIS. BIS did NOT say anything in their report about the Central Banks buying the fossil fuel companies. I gave you a link to the report. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 14^th, 2023 at 4:41pm:

No need to read it;

Because YOU KNOW things. Dummy. ::)

But given that you continue to lie. I'm out.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Frank on Jul 15^th, 2023 at 1:44pm

A week ago, Mr Van Styn said the town’s planting of trees at Wonthella Bushland Reserve had been abandoned after a local Indigenous family expressed objections. While he said the council had stopped due to fears they could breach WA’s new Aboriginal Cultural Heritage Act, which came into force at the start of the month, the family has said its objections were due to the connection of the planting to Queen Elizabeth II’s jubilee.

The original site selected for the planting was not listed as an Aboriginal cultural heritage site, although the new location is registered.

While glad that the trees had been planted, Mr Van Styn said he was confused by the government’s comments that the original planting should not have stopped despite the objections from some local Indigenous representatives.

“Here we have the Premier and the Aboriginal Affairs Minister saying we should have disregarded the knowledge-holders. I thought the whole purpose of the rewrite was to listen to them,” he said.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/defiant-geraldton-mayor-pushes-on-with-tree-planting/news-story/3221cb9c5c1b06e2d22d5eab0f7af912

Abos - they know how to make friends and influence people, don't they?? :P :P
Tellembuggerem.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 15^th, 2023 at 1:47pm

lee wrote on Jul 14^th, 2023 at 6:37pm:

Because YOU KNOW things. Dummy. ::)

I certainly know more than the ignorant Oz Noalition Treasurer who said "it ain't going to happen" ie he would not be authorizing the RBA to buy the Oz fossil industry. ...after he read the same report you and I are arguing about, regardless of WHO in fact said it, ie the BIS, or "a leading global banking regulator".

IT WAS SAID; and in time governments will wake up to the fact it's the only way to close the ff industry in a timely fashion, in order to transition to renewables ASAP.

Quote:

But given that you continue to lie. I'm out.

Smart move: your brain damage is already in evidence.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by UnSubRocky on Jul 15^th, 2023 at 8:10pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 13^th, 2023 at 4:55pm:

That must be a poster on your wall to remind you every day that you should consider moving out of your mother's basement.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Jul 16^th, 2023 at 6:10pm

Frank wrote on Jul 15^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

Abos - they know how to make friends and influence people, don't they?? :P :P
Tellembuggerem.

Priceless - glad you're back...... :-)

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by buzzanddidj on Jul 19^th, 2023 at 5:30pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 7^th, 2023 at 7:58am:

The same will happen here and it has already started without a voice.

Imagine how bad it will be with a voice ?

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Jul 20^th, 2023 at 10:53pm

Here we go again - visitors to soon be banned from Fraser Island ...

https://au.news.yahoo.com/euthanised-dingo-underlines-visitor-behaviour-001646107.html

Not my dingo! The visitors did it to him!! So ban the visitors.

"The behaviour of some visitors to Queensland's K'gari is under scrutiny after a dingo involved in a recent attack on a female jogger was euthanised.

The destroyed animal had "lost all wariness of people" and was involved in another incident the day after a high-profile attack on the woman who was running on a beach on Monday.

The latest encounter on the island involved the animal lunging within a metre of a man before a ranger intervened.

On Monday, a group of dingoes chased the woman into the water at Orchid Beach before two men in a 4WD rushed to her aid.

"We believe the people who intervened saved her life that day," principal ranger Danielle Mansfield said on Thursday.

Rangers are working to identify the other dingoes involved using photos of their markings and may attach GPS tracking collars to monitor their behaviour.

The habits of the destroyed animal were a "direct result" of people not following rangers' messages on dingo safety."

Go ask Lindy Chamberlain.

That'll sure make them more wary of people - these ABO rangers walking up to them and putting tracking collars on them - sure to increase their wariness around people. Typical bullshit - now watch what it turns into.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Dnarever on Jul 20^th, 2023 at 11:04pm

Quote:

We lost Uluru

You sure about that ? It's really big.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Jul 21^st, 2023 at 6:02am

Anyway - on Fraser Island... let's get this right:-

The Noble Abo brought the dingo here 4000 years ago as pets and hunting dogs
Ergo - dingoes are not native
If they were pets and hunting dogs they have gone feral and are now non-native wild dogs in most cases (some are pets)
Ergo - eradicate the wild dogs not the visitors
Simple enough - cage some up for viewing... they won't be extinct
Next - eradicate the rangers there who are no longer of any use or need - after asking them what they'd think was appropriate action if the victim was their kid or something.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Jul 22^nd, 2023 at 11:39am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 21^st, 2023 at 6:02am:

Some of the QPWS Rangers over there are whiter than me.

It gets worse ... two baby humpback whales washed up on the ocean beach of Fraser Island(that's what it will always be to me) ... one was already dead .... the other barely alive ....

but the QPWS had to consult with the local "Butchulla" people before the decision was made to euthanize it.

Absolutely astounding that all of a sudden the local Aboriginals are experts on whale animal husbandry & veterinary needs.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Jul 22^nd, 2023 at 12:26pm

Gnads wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2023 at 11:39am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 21^st, 2023 at 6:02am:

Yes - it's all such utter bullshit.

Oh - again - they're ALL whiter than I am when I am in the sun.... every last one of them. I have to stay out of sun for meds for a while, sick as a dog anyway.

Title: Tellembuggerem
Post by Frank on Aug 3^rd, 2023 at 4:41pm

AusGeoff wrote on Jul 5^th, 2023 at 9:16pm:

The "Voice" = ATSIC v.2 = waste of taxpayer money.

One voice already failed, and another to fail inevitably.

ATSIC was abolished because it was too corrupt and THEREFORE ineffective. Why was it corrupt?

It was too clannish, tribal, nepotistic. Can clannish, tribal people have an organisation composed along clannish, tribal lines that is not corrupt (ie clannish and tribal)?

The predecessor of ATSIC was also abolished.

The NAC also campaigned at an international level for a treaty (pp. 386–7). At the United Nations, the World Council of Indigenous Peoples, and the World Assembly of First Nations, the NAC put forward suggestions for a Makarrata including:

- land rights over former reserves and national parks and recognition of traditional rights to hunt, fish and gather on Crown lands
- a National Aboriginal Bank, tax exemptions and payment of 5% of Australia’s gross national product for 195 years as reparations
- one seat per state in the House of Representatives and the Senate to be reserved for an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander person
- self-government of Aboriginal communities and respect for Aboriginal customary law
- return of artefacts and artworks and control over research on Aboriginal people
- dedicated Aboriginal schools, medical centres and legal aid.[4]

The Hawke Government stated in 1985 that it considered a Makarrata would be ‘difficult at this stage’ in the context of ‘efforts required to promote community acceptance for the concept of national land rights legislation’. In 1985, the Hawke Government abolished the NAC, after commissioning a review of its performance and governance. As the NAC was not legislated, it could be abolished by the minister without parliamentary action.
https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp2223/Quick_Guides/FormerAboriginalandTorresStraightIslanderRepresentativeBodies#_Toc137814810

Would a Voice be asking for similar things in their Makarata aims? Of course they would.
Are they preposterous demands? Yes, they are.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Frank on Aug 4^th, 2023 at 9:47am

Mr Kelliher, 58, has received preliminary written advice organised through his legal firm saying that, under the Aboriginal Cultural Heritage Act, which took effect on July 1, he could be forced to pay between $30,000 and $100,000 for a cultural heritage assessment.

He told The Australian he wanted to extract high-quality building sand from his 85ha property in North Dandalup about an hour south of Perth. But this plan was thrown into doubt when the site was found to be close to possible historic camping areas for Indigenous Australians.

While he supported protecting Aboriginal cultural heritage, Mr Kelliher argued that “it should not be at the cost of the individual landowner”.

“If it incurs cost to the individual landowner, then they should be compensated,” he said. “I’ve got a significant connection to the land myself. It’s been in the family for three generations.”
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/farmer-advised-of-100000-cost-for-cultural-heritage-survey/news-story/937cc9b2672276caacd1f085edf494a1

Tellembuggerem.

Title: Re: Tellembuggerem
Post by thegreatdivide on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 10:37am

Frank wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2023 at 4:41pm:

The NAC also campaigned at an international level for a treaty (pp. 386–7). At the United Nations, the World Council of Indigenous Peoples, and the World Assembly of First Nations, the NAC put forward suggestions for a Makarrata including:

- land rights over former reserves and national parks and recognition of traditional rights to hunt, fish and gather on Crown lands
- a National Aboriginal Bank, tax exemptions and payment of 5% of Australia’s gross national product for 195 years as reparations
- one seat per state in the House of Representatives and the Senate to be reserved for an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander person
- self-government of Aboriginal communities and respect for Aboriginal customary law
- return of artefacts and artworks and control over research on Aboriginal people
- dedicated Aboriginal schools, medical centres and legal aid.[4]

The Hawke Government stated in 1985 that it considered a Makarrata would be ‘difficult at this stage’ in the context of ‘efforts required to promote community acceptance for the concept of national land rights legislation’. In 1985, the Hawke Government abolished the NAC, after commissioning a review of its performance and governance. As the NAC was not legislated, it could be abolished by the minister without parliamentary action.
https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp2223/Quick_Guides/FormerAboriginalandTorresStraightIslanderRepresentativeBodies#_Toc137814810

Good post, demonstrating the unreality of having two cultures based on different economic systems in the same country.

Quote:

Would a Voice be asking for similar things in their Makarata aims? Of course they would.
Are they preposterous demands? Yes, they are.

I tend to agree; hence we need to close the gap by other means.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 10:42am

One country - one economic system (which you are not going to change, so stop raving about it) - love it or leave it. Majority rules.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 11:45am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 10:42am:

One country - one economic system (which you are not going to change, so stop raving about it) - love it or leave it. Majority rules.

"Majority" wants to close the gap....

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 12:00pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 11:45am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 10:42am:

One country - one economic system (which you are not going to change, so stop raving about it) - love it or leave it. Majority rules.

"Majority" wants to close the gap....

Yes - not just your dopey 'yes' vote blind people... keep up the actual work - you might get there one day.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by UnSubRocky on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 12:01pm

How do you close the gap, greatdivide? The only gap you need closing is your mouth. What strategies do you have to close the gap between indigenous and non-indigenous standards?

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 12:05pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 12:01pm:

How do you close the gap, greatdivide? The only gap you need closing is your mouth. What strategies do you have to close the gap between indigenous and non-indigenous standards?

He has no answers, just endless repetition of the same old, same old ravings accompanied by insults of 'your reptilian brain' - as if he'd have any idea.

We'll just change the entire economic structure of the country and the world - that'll cure Indigenous problems..... how mad is that?

His biggest mistake is in trying to even suggest that somehow I am complicit in and responsible for any of this .... purest idiocy.

The man is a complete idiot, and only worth ignoring.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by UnSubRocky on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 12:16pm

We could change and change and change the economic system of Australia a number of times. That does not mean that indigenous people will adapt so that their socioeconomic problems disappear. Everyone else would adapt so that they could live by a new economic model. But the layabout indigenous people would continue the "poor bugger me" lifestyle.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by John Smith on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 12:41pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 12:16pm:

But the layabout indigenous people would continue the "poor bugger me" lifestyle.

you're the guy who complains about having to work 3 hours a day

buy a mirror you frken hypocrite ...

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 12:43pm

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 7:30pm

The worms are turning.....

https://thewest.com.au/politics/state-politics/aboriginal-cultural-heritage-law-changes-to-be-scrapped-after-overwhelming-pressure-on-cook-government-c-11490623

"The controversial overhaul of WA’s Aboriginal heritage laws will be scrapped completely in a stunning development just one month after the changes came into effect.

Facing a wave of anger and anxiety — particularly among the State’s farming community — Premier Roger Cook and Aboriginal Affairs Minister Tony Buti are poised to make the announcement within days."

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by UnSubRocky on Aug 6^th, 2023 at 12:14pm

John Smith wrote on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 12:41pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 12:16pm:

But the layabout indigenous people would continue the "poor bugger me" lifestyle.

you're the guy who complains about having to work 3 hours a day

buy a mirror you frken hypocrite ...

I don't complain about having to work 3 hours a day. I complain about only working 3 hours a day. Once my minimum 3 hour shift is up, I tend to try and make myself invisible with cleaning duties to get another hour.

Even then, I still do more work and get paid less than the "poor bugger me" indigenous people.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Aug 6^th, 2023 at 5:44pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 12:01pm:

How do you close the gap, greatdivide? The only gap you need closing is your mouth. What strategies do you have to close the gap between indigenous and non-indigenous standards?

At last, the real question to be dealt with by the nation.

By introducing the concept of "task-oriented" work which the community would like done, but which is not done in the private sector's profit-based, competitive "invisible hand" markets.

Eg, much of the work which is currently done by volunteers, because the private sector can't make a profit out of it, and government claims it can't afford to pay for it.

There you have it in a nutshell.

1. Provision of task-oriented work not done by the private sector or regular public service.

2. Funded by the public sector (government) taking into account the nation's available resources.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Aug 6^th, 2023 at 5:46pm

At last? You've been asked for practical measures for months and all you do is say "change the entire economic system of the world and the Abo problems will be fixed". You're dreaming, boy.

So now we're back to 'force 'em to work' - how are you planning to do that when they can see Albo holding out golden opportunities to them to stand fast as they are and be rewarded for being Aboriginal? You see - their personal concept of personal sovereignty and right to make positive decisions on their own behalf doesn't extend to actually working for it.

Only the Oreos who are doing so well out of special preferment, affirmative action, Aboriginal only public service departments etc, are using that personal sovereignty to get ahead - albeit with massive leg-ups. The rest are using it to stay as they are and refuse to come into the modern world - Welcome To Modern Australia!!

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by thegreatdivide on Aug 6^th, 2023 at 6:26pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 6^th, 2023 at 5:46pm:

I'm assumig the penny will eventually drop with the electorate, when they see the gap is not closing.

btw, organizing task-oriented work which the community wants done - much of it currently done by volunteers - doesn't require changing the world's economic system, only Australia's, since we have all the resources needed to implement the necessary non-market jobs, to eradicate systemic (socio-economic) poverty.

As for blacks "not wanting to work", that will indeed need to be part of the 'truth-telling' the nation, and blacks themselves must embrace.

Including 'truth-telling' about the vicious RW lie re "dole bludgers"; most people are desperate to have and keep a full time job, but there's that small matter of the Central Bank currently trying to force them onto the dole.....

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Aug 6^th, 2023 at 7:17pm

Well - I'll just leave you for a while in FIFF - Fools In Full Flight.... let you wear yourselves down. I don't even bother to read your endless monologues over the same ground over and over, dividie.... I thought you'd had an epiphany last night when the hit went in - 'oh - just change the entire economic system by which this country and the world operates and all will come good for the Abos'..

Jeez - why didn't someone think of that before, eh?

Again - you've been asked for months to offer PRACTICAL measures to get them on the road to curing their problems..... nobody else can do it for them and your measures have been tried and failed over and over ... either they do it for themselves or they fail ... be part of modern Australia (Welcome to Modern Country!) or pack your bags for the next boat out.

Aborassic Park after the Civil War is looking like a clear probability... lock 'em in and leave 'em to do things their way without the hindrance of anything of the white man's ways...... they'll all be dead within a year.... we'll have to drop supplies from the skies to keep them going... despite the signs to the tourists not to feed the wildlife....

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by John Smith on Aug 6^th, 2023 at 7:22pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 6^th, 2023 at 12:14pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 12:41pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 5^th, 2023 at 12:16pm:

But the layabout indigenous people would continue the "poor bugger me" lifestyle.

you're the guy who complains about having to work 3 hours a day

buy a mirror you frken hypocrite ...

I don't give a shit how many hours you actually work. The point is that you work minimal hours. You've never worked full-time in your life and you even once cited that you felt it was impossible for people to work 50 - 60 hrs because you couldn't do it. YOU'RE a bludger and you are the last person who should be calling others lazy.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by UnSubRocky on Aug 6^th, 2023 at 7:36pm

John Smith wrote on Aug 6^th, 2023 at 7:22pm:

I don't purposely work minimum hours. I have been lazy in much of the last 3 years because of being spoiled with extra covid-related payments. But, I still do 15 to 25 hours a week, this year. I barely get much in welfare. I study. And I take care of myself and my surroundings.

Given that I have been around people that work 50 to 60 hours a week (and only getting paid 40 hours) as well as observing those that do not work any hours and getting paid more than me, I don't think it fair that I get called a "bludger". I just don't believe that anyone can work 10 hours a day for 7 days a week without having time off every 2 weeks.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Frank on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:28am

This aboriginal gentleman is forbidding Australian citizens from entering parts of Australia.

I hope the coppers arrested him.

What will happen if the YES campaign succeeds?

https://twitter.com/Of_Bourke/status/1689131013098930176

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 11:17am

Police have jurisdiction - tribal law does not and will not..... arrest the silly buggar and fine him... that'll hurt. The cop is bending over backwards to avoid confrontation and this clown carries on like a pig being chased around a synagogue with a scourge...

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by The Grappler on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 6:34pm

It's time for governments to man up and actually support the people doing their jobs on the ground instead of licking the nuts of every Coon who comes along and mis-reads what native title is all about. Time for Native title to either be abolished or set perfectly in order so as to avoid these kinds of things - local 'law' does not trump the law of the land to which all are subject, and that guy is clearly guilty of obstruction, blocking a public road (a white man's invention) with his white man's car ... if a cop can taser an old lady in Cooma - this guy has to be a #1 prospect for tasering and arrest......

Clearly the idea of not confronting is not working - all it is doing is encouraging them.... the gates of the prison yards are yawning wide....

Land claims - give 'em enough freehold land to build their village on - they CANNOT own an entire region simply because their forebears wandered across it, and the 'native title' nonsense was clearly designed to create just such situations as this. They can own freehold enough to live on and that's it.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Frank on Mar 19^th, 2024 at 3:46pm

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 4^th, 2023 at 9:22am:

AusGeoff wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2023 at 9:00pm:

It will be interesting to see what name the, er, interested groups come up with when they decide to re-name Australia...

Two popular tourist destinations in Byron Bay have officially been given dual Aboriginal names in a “nod to cultural significance”.

The NSW Geographical Names Board approved a submission made by the National Parks and Wildlife Service in July 2023 to officially christen Cape Byron as “Walgun” and Julian Rocks as “Nguthungulli”.

Additionally, a reserve in the suburb of Bangalow, located at 27 Deacon Street, has been named Piccabeen Park, with “Piccabeen” a Bundjalung word to describe the palms in the area and the baskets made from its fronds.

In a statement issued by the NSW Government on Tuesday, Nguthungulli is a “significant and sacred” site associated with several dreaming stories and is said to mean the Father of the World in the language of the Arakwal people.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Mar 19^th, 2024 at 7:15pm

Ayers Rock - show some respect each way - the time will come when some government rips up all these 'agreements' made between the Dork governments and the Abos.

Slowly but surely every worthwhile site to visit - naturally occurring ones, of course over which NOBODY can claim possession .. Open Range .... in Australia is being shut down for 'cultural sensitivities' and soon there will be only empty desert stretching for miles and miles for visitors and travelers to see.

Just today the wahless news said that two spots near Byron Bay were being renamed - without your leave, freediver - with Aboriginal names.

Well - you know what - cultural sensitivity and respect work two ways - people can choose for themselves what they want to call a naturally occurring feature that NOBODY has any right to lay claim to.

Ayers Rock it is... Mt Warning it is... if you don't know what those names mean and what they identify, then piss off... I, for one, will name them as I choose ....

Everyone happy to have the two names of two different cultures shown side by side? If not - piss off.

Title: Re: We lost Uluru - more to lose with a voice?
Post by Gnads on Mar 20^th, 2024 at 9:50am

Frank wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:28am:

Shillingsworth .... a good traditional name ;D

He's a trouble making DH.