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General Discussion >> Thinking Globally >> Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
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Message started by Bobby. on Apr 7th, 2023 at 10:12pm

Title: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7th, 2023 at 10:12pm
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/04/07/leaked-documents-us-nato-ukraine-war-plan/

Leaked documents expose US-NATO Ukraine war plans

Alexander Rubinstein·April 7, 2023



The leaked documents claim that Russia has sustained troop losses ranging from 16,000 to 17,500 while
Ukrainian losses amount to as many as 71,500 –
a staggering differential that stands at odds with the triumphalist narrative projected by Kiev.


They are dated March 1 2023 and appear to be part of an ongoing briefing effort to analyze the war’s progress and plan a Ukrainian counteroffensive.






Classified Pentagon documents containing information about US and NATO plans for a Ukrainian offensive and key details of the ongoing war have leaked. And the Biden administration is reportedly demanding they be scrubbed from the internet. Is there a hidden agenda behind the leak?

The New York Times has reported “a significant breach of American intelligence in the effort to aid Ukraine” through the leak of classified documents which have been shared on social media. It correspondents cited “senior Biden administration officials” who apparently tipped the outlet off to the story. Documents circulating on Telegram which closely resemble those referred to by the Times are reproduced at the end of this article.


Leaked docs: Ukrainian killed in action outnumber Russians 4:1

Perhaps the most notable piece of information contained in the leaked documents relates to military death tolls, with Ukrainian and Russian losses estimated at about a 4:1 ratio. According to one document, 71,500 Ukrainian troops have been killed in action.

That figure is close to the 100,000 KIA’s cited by EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen in a November 2022 speech, before her comments were retracted. It also tracks closely with statements by one of Ukrainian President Vlodymyr Zelensky’s top advisers, Mykhailo Podolyak, who told the BBC in June of last year that Ukraine was losing between 100 and 200 soldiers per day (200 deaths per day over the course of 370 days between the launch of Russia’s military operation and the date of the documents would total 74,000.)

Other American and EU state officials have offered dramatically different figures placing Russian KIA’s over the six figure mark. For instance, Norway’s defense chief has charted 100,000 Ukrainian soldiers dead to Russia’s 180,000, while Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Miley asserted that Russian losses are “significantly well over 100,000.”





Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Xavier on Apr 7th, 2023 at 10:13pm
I wouldn't be surprised in the least.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 7th, 2023 at 10:17pm

Jasin wrote on Apr 7th, 2023 at 10:13pm:
I wouldn't be surprised in the least.



We may have been listening to a whole lot of propaganda lies -

the Ukrainians are being bled dry.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 8th, 2023 at 2:37pm
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/07/politics/ukraine-documents/index.html


The documents could be altered:



Pentagon investigating alleged classified documents circulating
on social media of US and NATO intelligence on Ukraine


By Natasha Bertrand and Matthew Chance, CNN
Updated 11:25 AM EDT, Fri April 7, 2023




A third document is a map, listed as top secret, that shows the status of the conflict as of March 1. The map shows Russian and Ukrainian battalion locations and sizes, as well as total assessed losses on both sides. The casualty numbers on this document are what officials believe was doctored – the Russian losses are actually far higher than the “16,000-17,500 killed in action” listed on the document, officials said.

The document also says that 61,000-71,500 Ukrainians have been killed in action, a number that officials said also appeared edited to be higher than actual Pentagon estimates.

A fourth document is a weather projection from February, listed as Secret, that assesses where the ground may freeze in Ukraine in a way that would be favorable for vehicle maneuver.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Xavier on Apr 8th, 2023 at 2:39pm
Anything involving the USA is dodgy.
Iraq with bu*llshit Weapons of Mass Destruction.
Vietnam
Korea
Afghanistan for going after just one man.

Now Ukraine. ::)

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 8th, 2023 at 2:42pm

Jasin wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 2:39pm:
Anything involving the USA is dodgy.
Iraq with bu*llshit Weapons of Mass Destruction.
Vietnam
Korea
Afghanistan for going after just one man.

Now Ukraine. ::)



The first casualty of war is the truth.
Both sides are lying through their teeth.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by UnSubRocky on Apr 8th, 2023 at 4:54pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 2:42pm:
The first casualty of war is the truth.


If "the first casualty of war is the truth" is true, then it is not.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Xavier on Apr 8th, 2023 at 5:52pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 4:54pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 2:42pm:
The first casualty of war is the truth.


If "the first casualty of war is the truth" is true, then it is not.

Huh? :-?

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Belgarion on Apr 8th, 2023 at 6:32pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 4:54pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 2:42pm:
The first casualty of war is the truth.


If "the first casualty of war is the truth" is true, then it is not.



Too deep for the tinfoil hat mob... ;D

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Xavier on Apr 8th, 2023 at 6:39pm

Belgarion wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 6:32pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 4:54pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 2:42pm:
The first casualty of war is the truth.


If "the first casualty of war is the truth" is true, then it is not.



Too deep for the tinfoil hat mob... ;D

:P  ;D

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by freediver on Apr 8th, 2023 at 8:53pm
Yes Bobby. Russia actually won the war 8 years ago. The Ukrainian people are finally free.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by issuevoter on Apr 8th, 2023 at 10:05pm
I don't believe any of the casualty estimations. We will not know the facts until the business is settled, one way or the other. However, for such an overwhelmingly superior force, Russian lack of success indicates huge losses.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 8th, 2023 at 11:06pm

freediver wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 8:53pm:
Yes Bobby. Russia actually won the war 8 years ago. The Ukrainian people are finally free.



No one is happy about this war -
no one in Russia and no one in Ukraine -
no one in the world -
even Putin himself is not happy.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by athos on Apr 9th, 2023 at 10:32am

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 11:06pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 8:53pm:
Yes Bobby. Russia actually won the war 8 years ago. The Ukrainian people are finally free.

No one is happy about this war -
no one in Russia and no one in Ukraine -
no one in the world -
even Putin himself is not happy.


Totally wrong.

Right now, the Anglo-Khazarian evil mafia is more than happy. They succeeded in the first phase of their usual divide-and-conquer Anglo imperial project. We must not forget that the Russians and the so-called "Ukrainians" are one and the same people who are currently killing each other.
This is how Anglo-Khazarians hope to weaken Russia, subjugate the Russian people and in the second phase conquer Russia. I think they have little chance of succeeding in this, since Russia is already successfully eliminating the cancer from its body called Ukrainian Nazism.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 9th, 2023 at 10:35am

athos wrote on Apr 9th, 2023 at 10:32am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 11:06pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 8:53pm:
Yes Bobby. Russia actually won the war 8 years ago. The Ukrainian people are finally free.

No one is happy about this war -
no one in Russia and no one in Ukraine -
no one in the world -
even Putin himself is not happy.


Totally wrong.

Right now, the Anglo-Khazarian evil mafia is more than happy. They succeeded in the first phase of their usual divide-and-conquer Anglo imperial project. We must not forget that the Russians and the so-called "Ukrainians" are one and the same people who are currently killing each other.
This is how Anglo-Khazarians hope to weaken Russia, subjugate the Russian people and in the second phase conquer Russia. I think they have little chance of succeeding in this, since Russia is already successfully eliminating the cancer from its body called Ukrainian Nazism.



Nonsense -
Macron was just in China only days ago begging Xi to
try and get Putin to stop the crazy war.


Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Xavier on Apr 9th, 2023 at 11:02am
USA using Ukrainian people to bleed the Russians as much as possible.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by UnSubRocky on Apr 9th, 2023 at 1:55pm

Jasin wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 5:52pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 4:54pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 2:42pm:
The first casualty of war is the truth.


If "the first casualty of war is the truth" is true, then it is not.

Huh? :-?


If something is true, but you are claiming that it is not true, then the reality is that the statement is a truth. Ergo, truth is not the first casualty. It might well be a casualty. But not the first casualty.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by thegreatdivide on Apr 9th, 2023 at 2:42pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 4:54pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 2:42pm:
The first casualty of war is the truth.


If "the first casualty of war is the truth" is true, then it is not.


You are mixing subject and object, and so we get the above sophistry from you (an innocent error, maybe, owing to the wrong presence of the word "the" in front of "truth"). 

"The 1st casualty of war is truth" ie the 1st casualty even before the 1st combatant is killed is truth itself, which explains why the war has broken out - ie, because someone is lying.


Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Xavier on Apr 9th, 2023 at 4:12pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 9th, 2023 at 2:42pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 4:54pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 2:42pm:
The first casualty of war is the truth.


If "the first casualty of war is the truth" is true, then it is not.


You are mixing subject and object, and so we get the above sophistry from you (an innocent error, maybe, owing to the wrong presence of the word "the" in front of "truth"). 

"The 1st casualty of war is truth" ie the 1st casualty even before the 1st combatant is killed is truth itself, which explains why the war has broken out - ie, because someone is lying.

Now that makes sense.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 9th, 2023 at 5:25pm

No one is happy about this war -
no one in Russia and no one in Ukraine -
no one in the world -
even Putin himself is not happy.


Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by UnSubRocky on Apr 9th, 2023 at 6:44pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 9th, 2023 at 2:42pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 4:54pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8th, 2023 at 2:42pm:
The first casualty of war is the truth.


If "the first casualty of war is the truth" is true, then it is not.


You are mixing subject and object, and so we get the above sophistry from you (an innocent error, maybe, owing to the wrong presence of the word "the" in front of "truth"). 

"The 1st casualty of war is truth" ie the 1st casualty even before the 1st combatant is killed is truth itself, which explains why the war has broken out - ie, because someone is lying.


No. I am aware that the outbreak of war is because one side has wronged the other. But if something is true about being the first casualty to be the truth, then it is true. You might as well say that lying is the first catalyst of war. Truth could be the display of the war taking place.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 9th, 2023 at 6:49pm
The truth is not told in wars because it would destroy the morale of the people.

The people would give up the fight.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by UnSubRocky on Apr 9th, 2023 at 8:02pm
The truth in wars is revealed by the casualties observed. People fight harder when they know the truth.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 10th, 2023 at 2:36pm
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65225985


Ukraine war: Who leaked top secret US documents - and why?


What to make of the dozens of classified American Defence Department documents - maps, charts and photographs - now circulating on the internet?

Complete with timelines and dozens of impenetrable military acronyms, the documents, some of them marked "top secret", paint a detailed picture of the war in Ukraine.

They tell of the casualties suffered on both sides, the military vulnerabilities of each and, crucially, what their relative strengths are likely to be when Ukraine decides to launch its much-anticipated spring offensive.

How real are these printed pages, unfolded and photographed, possibly on someone's dining room table? And what do they tell us, or the Kremlin, that we did not already know?

First things first: this is the biggest leak of secret American information on the war in Ukraine since Russia's full-scale invasion 14 months ago. Some of the documents are as much as six weeks old, but the implications are huge.

Pentagon officials are quoted as saying the documents are real.




Take casualty figures. It comes as little surprise to learn that the US estimates that between 189,500 and 223,000 Russian soldiers have been killed or wounded.

The equivalent figure for Ukraine's losses - between 124,500 and 131,000 - is also in line with ballpark figures briefed to journalists in recent weeks.

In both cases, the Pentagon says it has "low confidence" in the figures, due to gaps in information, operational security and deliberate attempts, probably by both sides, to mislead.

Tellingly, this is the one place where attempts have been made to alter the documents to make it look as if Ukraine is experiencing the worst casualties.

A version which appeared on a pro-Russian Telegram site took the number of Ukrainian "killed in action" ("16k-17.5k") and put those on the Russian ledger, while flipping the numbers on the Ukrainian side so they read "61k - 71.5k".

All of which brings us to the question of who leaked the documents, and why?

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by athos on Apr 11th, 2023 at 6:38pm

Anglo-Khazarian evil will be defeated.

Russia will squash Anglo-Khazarian reptiles.



https://youtu.be/RDi4bt_0058

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by JC Denton on Apr 13th, 2023 at 3:03am
dont believe the MoD statements on either side

russian KIA are somewhere in the ballpark of about 20k-30k

ukrainian around 80-120K

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by issuevoter on Apr 13th, 2023 at 6:26am

JC Denton wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 3:03am:
dont believe the MoD statements on either side

russian KIA are somewhere in the ballpark of about 20k-30k

ukrainian around 80-120K


And why should we believe you?

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 13th, 2023 at 7:22am
Is this true?



Ukraine war: President Zelensky condemns beheading video

    Published

4 hours ago






Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has called on world leaders to respond after a video emerged apparently showing a Ukrainian soldier being beheaded by a Russian serviceman.

"Everyone must react. Every leader. Do not wait for this to be forgotten," he said in a video address.

Ukraine's SBU security service said it was investigating the "war crime".

The Kremlin said the video was "awful" but its authenticity had to be checked as well as who was behind it.

The grainy and extremely graphic video appears to have been filmed on a mobile phone, and possibly during the summer months. It shows a man in military uniform wearing a yellow armband - frequently worn as identifying symbols by Ukrainian soldiers.

The perpetrator and other men visible in the clip have white bands on their legs, which Russian soldiers are known to wear as a means of identification.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by issuevoter on Apr 13th, 2023 at 8:12am

Bobby. wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 7:22am:
Is this true?



Ukraine war: President Zelensky condemns beheading video


I hope not.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by JC Denton on Apr 13th, 2023 at 12:20pm

issuevoter wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 6:26am:

JC Denton wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 3:03am:
dont believe the MoD statements on either side

russian KIA are somewhere in the ballpark of about 20k-30k

ukrainian around 80-120K


And why should we believe you?


bc those are the most realistic numbers based on independent assessments, especially on the russian side

russian number comes from mediazona, a bbc adjacent organisation that ascertains casualty figures based on things like russian cemetery data

ukrainian numbers are based on extrapolations of firepower on each side, etc, ukraine doesn't let independent orgs operate in its country like russia does however

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by issuevoter on Apr 13th, 2023 at 7:48pm

JC Denton wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 12:20pm:

issuevoter wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 6:26am:

JC Denton wrote on Apr 13th, 2023 at 3:03am:
dont believe the MoD statements on either side

russian KIA are somewhere in the ballpark of about 20k-30k

ukrainian around 80-120K


And why should we believe you?


bc those are the most realistic numbers based on independent assessments, especially on the russian side

russian number comes from mediazona, a bbc adjacent organisation that ascertains casualty figures based on things like russian cemetery data

ukrainian numbers are based on extrapolations of firepower on each side, etc, ukraine doesn't let independent orgs operate in its country like russia does however


;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by freediver on Apr 14th, 2023 at 6:43am
Russia is just pretending it cannot defeat one of its tiny neighbours. Don't fall for it.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 14th, 2023 at 9:59am
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65269975


Jack Teixeira: National Guard airman arrested over leaked Pentagon documents


    Published

35 minutes ago


A 21-year-old US Air Force National Guard member has been arrested over the leak of classified documents.

Jack Teixeira is reported to be the leader of an online gaming chat group where the files were leaked.

US officials said he will be charged under the Espionage Act, which makes it a crime to transmit classified defence information.

The documents revealed sensitive intelligence about the war in Ukraine and other countries around the world.

Aerial footage showed officers making an arrest at Mr Teixeira's family home on Thursday.

The arrest happened in Dighton, a town of 8,000 people about an hour to the south of Boston.

Footage of the arrest shows a young man, believed to be Mr Teixeira, walking backward towards armed FBI officers with his hands raised before he is handcuffed and led to a car.

He is expected to make his first court appearance for an arraignment in Boston on Friday.


Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 14th, 2023 at 10:42am


Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 14th, 2023 at 12:55pm
Tucker says it's a crime -
it's not authorised by Congress.

https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/135/175/099/playable/cc97d514f3f712fc.mp4

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 14th, 2023 at 2:52pm
The question is -

why was a 21 year old serviceman given access to such secret documents?


Also -
can they hang him for treason?

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 15th, 2023 at 9:06am
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/14/politics/classified-leaks-suspect-arraignment/index.html


Suspect charged in Pentagon documents leak case


Hannah Rabinowitz Jeremy Herb
By Hannah Rabinowitz and Jeremy Herb, CNN
Updated 3:22 PM EDT, Fri April 14, 2023



Worked in IT in Air National Guard

Teixeira was an Airman First Class in the Massachusetts Air National Guard, where he worked as a low-ranking IT official.

In his role as a Cyber Transport Systems journeyman, Teixeria would have been working on a network that carried highly classified information, according to a defense official, which is why he needed a security clearance.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 16th, 2023 at 11:04am


Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Xavier on Apr 16th, 2023 at 12:32pm
Maxwell called Biden 'smokin Joe' when he paid his visits.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by JC Denton on Apr 16th, 2023 at 3:29pm
stop schizo shitposting

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Dnarever on Apr 18th, 2023 at 3:11pm

Quote:
Has Ukraine lied about their losses?


This was from the only document that Fox Propaganda used. Turns out the the numbers on it had been altered to make Russian losses look good and Ukrainian losses to look bad.

It was all BS. The leaked report had been altered by a pro Russia woman in the middle of the leak process.

Ukraine didn't lie about losses as you would expect Fox broadcast the lie.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by aquascoot on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:05pm
ukraine have suffered enormous losses.
this is a WW1 trench warfare fight with russia lobbing artillery shells by the gazillion.
how could their losses not be in the 100's of 1000's.

all will be revealed shortly when they fall back to kiev.

it was always going to end this way.

the last 12 months have been great for arms producers but a catastrophe for 17 yo ukranian men

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:10pm

aquascoot wrote on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:05pm:
ukraine have suffered enormous losses.
this is a WW1 trench warfare fight with russia lobbing artillery shells by the gazillion.
how could their losses not be in the 100's of 1000's.

all will be revealed shortly when they fall back to kiev.

it was always going to end this way.

the last 12 months have been great for arms producers but a catastrophe for 17 yo ukranian men



The Ukrainians would have been better off to surrender on the first day.
Why should 100s of 1000s of them die to protect Europe?
NATO should have stepped in to help them with ALL their assets
by the first week of the war.


Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Dnarever on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:14pm

aquascoot wrote on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:05pm:
ukraine have suffered enormous losses.
this is a WW1 trench warfare fight with russia lobbing artillery shells by the gazillion.
how could their losses not be in the 100's of 1000's.

all will be revealed shortly when they fall back to kiev.

it was always going to end this way.

the last 12 months have been great for arms producers but a catastrophe for 17 yo ukranian men



Quote:
ukraine have suffered enormous losses.


Yes but so have Russia.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Dnarever on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:15pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:10pm:

aquascoot wrote on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:05pm:
ukraine have suffered enormous losses.
this is a WW1 trench warfare fight with russia lobbing artillery shells by the gazillion.
how could their losses not be in the 100's of 1000's.

all will be revealed shortly when they fall back to kiev.

it was always going to end this way.

the last 12 months have been great for arms producers but a catastrophe for 17 yo ukranian men



The Ukrainians would have been better off to surrender on the first day.
Why should 100s of 1000s of them die to protect Europe?
NATO should have stepped in to help them with ALL their assets
by the first week of the war.



Quote:
Why should 100s of 1000s of them die to protect Europe?


They are protecting Ukraine from evil bstds.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Dnarever on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:16pm

Quote:
Has Ukraine lied about their losses?


This topic is based on yet another Fox lie.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:24pm

Dnarever wrote on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:15pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:10pm:

aquascoot wrote on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:05pm:
ukraine have suffered enormous losses.
this is a WW1 trench warfare fight with russia lobbing artillery shells by the gazillion.
how could their losses not be in the 100's of 1000's.

all will be revealed shortly when they fall back to kiev.

it was always going to end this way.

the last 12 months have been great for arms producers but a catastrophe for 17 yo ukranian men



The Ukrainians would have been better off to surrender on the first day.
Why should 100s of 1000s of them die to protect Europe?
NATO should have stepped in to help them with ALL their assets
by the first week of the war.



Quote:
Why should 100s of 1000s of them die to protect Europe?


They are protecting Ukraine from evil bstds.



They sure are - the Russians are most vile, evil creatures on the planet
and Europe doesn't want to sacrifice one soldier to keep them out
or help Ukraine.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by UnSubRocky on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:25pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:24pm:
They sure are - the Russians are most vile, evil creatures on the planet
and Europe doesn't want to sacrifice one soldier to keep them out
or help Ukraine.


Would you sacrifice a soldier to keep Russians out of Ukraine?

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:29pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:24pm:
They sure are - the Russians are most vile, evil creatures on the planet
and Europe doesn't want to sacrifice one soldier to keep them out
or help Ukraine.


Would you sacrifice a soldier to keep Russians out of Ukraine?



If I was a politician and part of NATO -
I would have sent soldiers in on the first day of the Ukraine war -
including NATO tanks and jet fighters.
The road into Kiev would have been a highway of death for all those Russian tanks.
NATO needed to nip it in the bud before it really got going.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by aquascoot on Apr 18th, 2023 at 9:21pm
theres really not much difference between ukraine and russia.

both are corrupt.
ukraine was voted the most corrupt country in europe
50 % of people have to pay bribes to get public servants to act.
they both have super rich oligarchs who exploit the natural resources and stick the cash off shore
its the hangover of the socialist state.

let them sort it out.

russia defeated napoleon after initial blunders
russia defeated germany after initial blunders
the russians will defeat ukraine after initial blunders

the country is pretty much demolished, every dude with a ride will be off to germany to join the syrians
russia doesnt have the cash to rebuild it after they conquer it so it will just be exploited to grow food.
the rich black soil is 10 metres deep, so thats all its good for.
america will piss off back to america and the military industrial complex will distribute the profits.

what on earth has the west achieved?

its iraq and afghanistan and vuetnam and syria and all over again.

wrecked countries used and abandoned after critical infrastructure is destroyed.

the afghans are already starving but no one gives a toss , now there isnt a buck to be made.
and the leftie SJW's are the worst

rabbiting on about educating afghani girls and now leaving them starving and married to 70 yo men.yuk

america should do what donald wanted to do

stuff nato

build a wall and mind your own business.
the first president not to start a new war in 40 years.

not like the demented marionette currently reading the script raytheon hand him  ::) ::)

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Dnarever on Apr 18th, 2023 at 10:43pm

aquascoot wrote on Apr 18th, 2023 at 9:21pm:
theres really not much difference between ukraine and russia.

both are corrupt.
ukraine was voted the most corrupt country in europe
50 % of people have to pay bribes to get public servants to act.
they both have super rich oligarchs who exploit the natural resources and stick the cash off shore
its the hangover of the socialist state.

let them sort it out.

russia defeated napoleon after initial blunders
russia defeated germany after initial blunders
the russians will defeat ukraine after initial blunders

the country is pretty much demolished, every dude with a ride will be off to germany to join the syrians
russia doesnt have the cash to rebuild it after they conquer it so it will just be exploited to grow food.
the rich black soil is 10 metres deep, so thats all its good for.
america will piss off back to america and the military industrial complex will distribute the profits.

what on earth has the west achieved?

its iraq and afghanistan and vuetnam and syria and all over again.

wrecked countries used and abandoned after critical infrastructure is destroyed.

the afghans are already starving but no one gives a toss , now there isnt a buck to be made.
and the leftie SJW's are the worst

rabbiting on about educating afghani girls and now leaving them starving and married to 70 yo men.yuk

america should do what donald wanted to do

stuff nato

build a wall and mind your own business.
the first president not to start a new war in 40 years.

not like the demented marionette currently reading the script raytheon hand him  ::) ::)



Quote:
theres really not much difference between ukraine and russia.


Is there a point - does it matter ? What difference does it make.

Is it ok to invade and brutalise countries when they are similar?

I don't see it. What are you trying to show here?

I see the scatter gun is out.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by UnSubRocky on Apr 18th, 2023 at 10:54pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:29pm:
If I was a politician and part of NATO -
I would have sent soldiers in on the first day of the Ukraine war -
including NATO tanks and jet fighters.
The road into Kiev would have been a highway of death for all those Russian tanks.
NATO needed to nip it in the bud before it really got going.


You would not be a politician for long. What does a poor country like Ukraine have to offer NATO? And why would you would want to spend invaluable resources like your country's soldiers to save a country with 40 million people?

I have a relative that lives in Ukraine. But, even with her in some element of danger, I would not send any unwilling soldier into a warzone to potentially prevent her and her community from obliteration. The best I could do is keep the sanctions against Russia in place, and hope that the Russians would give up and settle for Crimea.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 18th, 2023 at 10:58pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Apr 18th, 2023 at 10:54pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 18th, 2023 at 8:29pm:
If I was a politician and part of NATO -
I would have sent soldiers in on the first day of the Ukraine war -
including NATO tanks and jet fighters.
The road into Kiev would have been a highway of death for all those Russian tanks.
NATO needed to nip it in the bud before it really got going.


You would not be a politician for long. What does a poor country like Ukraine have to offer NATO? And why would you would want to spend invaluable resources like your country's soldiers to save a country with 40 million people?

I have a relative that lives in Ukraine. But, even with her in some element of danger, I would not send any unwilling soldier into a warzone to potentially prevent her and her community from obliteration. The best I could do is keep the sanctions against Russia in place, and hope that the Russians would give up and settle for Crimea.



No -
NATO needed to give the Russians a highway of death just like 1991:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_of_Death




Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by UnSubRocky on Apr 19th, 2023 at 3:46pm
You are talking crap, Bobby.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 20th, 2023 at 9:35am

Teixeira is one of more than one million people who have Top Secret clearance.



Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 20th, 2023 at 9:40am

UnSubRocky wrote on Apr 19th, 2023 at 3:46pm:
You are talking crap, Bobby.



No I'm not.
NATO didn't have to invade Russia -
all they needed to do in February 2022 was crush the invading army that was
trying to enter Kiev on that long road inside Ukraine.
There were over 500 vehicles including many tanks.
They ran out of fuel and supplies and
many vehicles broke down -
they were sitting ducks for the NATO air force.

I bet the Russians would have ran into the fields while
NATO destroyed all their broken down vehicles.
It would have been a good lesson for Putin but sleepy Joe didn't have the guts to do it.
He's a weak leader.
Trump would have done what was needed to be done as Trump has a set of balls.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Dnarever on Apr 20th, 2023 at 1:31pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 9:35am:
Teixeira is one of more than one million people who have Top Secret clearance.






Quote:
more than one million people who have Top Secret clearance.


The report I seen said that 1.5 million had top secret clearance.

This guy was a junior airman.

They have said that they find it easier for young people to get clearance because the older you are the more life experience you have the more likely that there will be something to find in the checks. They are not saying that younger people are better for security just that they don't have enough life experience to be assessed properly.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Mattyfisk on Apr 20th, 2023 at 2:07pm

aquascoot wrote on Apr 18th, 2023 at 9:21pm:
theres really not much difference between ukraine and russia.

both are corrupt.
ukraine was voted the most corrupt country in europe
50 % of people have to pay bribes to get public servants to act.
they both have super rich oligarchs who exploit the natural resources and stick the cash off shore
its the hangover of the socialist state.

let them sort it out.

russia defeated napoleon after initial blunders
russia defeated germany after initial blunders
the russians will defeat ukraine after initial blunders

the country is pretty much demolished, every dude with a ride will be off to germany to join the syrians
russia doesnt have the cash to rebuild it after they conquer it so it will just be exploited to grow food.
the rich black soil is 10 metres deep, so thats all its good for.
america will piss off back to america and the military industrial complex will distribute the profits.

what on earth has the west achieved?

its iraq and afghanistan and vuetnam and syria and all over again.

wrecked countries used and abandoned after critical infrastructure is destroyed.

the afghans are already starving but no one gives a toss , now there isnt a buck to be made.
and the leftie SJW's are the worst

rabbiting on about educating afghani girls and now leaving them starving and married to 70 yo men.yuk

america should do what donald wanted to do

stuff nato

build a wall and mind your own business.
the first president not to start a new war in 40 years.

not like the demented marionette currently reading the script raytheon hand him  ::) ::)


Donald installed 27 miles of new steel fencing, dear. He spent the rest of his time in office on executive time, writing love letters to Kim and praising Xi for his management of covid.

He was not the first president to start no wars in 40 years, but he was the first to see more factories close down and move to Chi-na since 1998.

We most certainly will not leave Vlad to sort it out. Russia is the world's biggest terrorist state. Everyone is at risk from Vlad's hackers. Where previously, this was confined to Vlad's political opponents like Hillary and Obama, we're all at risk. My own info was stolen when Latitude was broken into. Forget bombing Ukrainian hospitals and being a jolly old war criminal. Vlad's not content to just politically meddle, getting politicians like your Dear Leader erected, he's coming after us all.

The moral equivalency is not Russia and Ukraine, but Vlad and Donald. These two are respectively the most dangerous and inept rulers we've seen since WWII.

NATO is responsible for presiding over the longest period of peace Europe has ever seen. An attack on one NATO country is an attack on them all, America included. If it wasn't for NATO, Vlad would have advanced into Poland and beyond.

We stand by our friends. You?

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by aquascoot on Apr 20th, 2023 at 2:44pm
you are such a dumbie matty fisk.

politics is now a reality tv show.

just like reality tv, most of the day is boring and so they just get the few interesting bits and those are the dramatic bits and they sell that to the public and the public love it.


good guys and bad guys, heroes and villians .

american politics is now akin to "the real housewifes of washington"

smart politicians know you get NO brownie points for slaving away at your desk 18 hrs a day.
if you do that, you will become a nobody and disappear.

the smart pollie knows that to win the game, you have to have a big personality.

you have to be a trump or an AOC or a lydia thorpe or a jaqui lambie or a pauline hanson or a maxine waters .
you have to be a star.

you and gweg are totally addicted to the soap opera. admit it.

there are heaps of mayors and congressmen and politicians doing a good solid job and you have no time for them, cant name them and have no interest in them

you are the audience, the "entertainer in chief" is playing to.
congratulations.
without people like you, there would be no trump

if you were devoted to family and career and community , trump would wither on the vine.

your love of the drama is the reason the drama exists.

so dont be blaming trump
go look in the mirror.
he is the manifestation of your low vibration state  ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 20th, 2023 at 2:56pm

aquascoot wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 2:44pm:
you are such a dumbie matty fisk.

politics is now a reality tv show.

just like reality tv, most of the day is boring and so they just get the few interesting bits and those are the dramatic bits and they sell that to the public and the public love it.


good guys and bad guys, heroes and villians .

american politics is now akin to "the real housewifes of washington"

smart politicians know you get NO brownie points for slaving away at your desk 18 hrs a day.
if you do that, you will become a nobody and disappear.

the smart pollie knows that to win the game, you have to have a big personality.

you have to be a trump or an AOC or a lydia thorpe or a jaqui lambie or a pauline hanson or a maxine waters .
you have to be a star.

you and gweg are totally addicted to the soap opera. admit it.

there are heaps of mayors and congressmen and politicians doing a good solid job and you have no time for them, cant name them and have no interest in them

you are the audience, the "entertainer in chief" is playing to.
congratulations.
without people like you, there would be no trump

if you were devoted to family and career and community , trump would wither on the vine.

your love of the drama is the reason the drama exists.

so dont be blaming trump
go look in the mirror.
he is the manifestation of your low vibration state  ;D ;D ;D



Matty and Greggy love it.   ;D

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by UnSubRocky on Apr 20th, 2023 at 3:01pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 9:40am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Apr 19th, 2023 at 3:46pm:
You are talking crap, Bobby.



No I'm not.
NATO didn't have to invade Russia -
all they needed to do in February 2022 was crush the invading army that was
trying to enter Kiev on that long road inside Ukraine.
There were over 500 vehicles including many tanks.
They ran out of fuel and supplies and
many vehicles broke down -
they were sitting ducks for the NATO air force.

I bet the Russians would have ran into the fields while
NATO destroyed all their broken down vehicles.
It would have been a good lesson for Putin but sleepy Joe didn't have the guts to do it.
He's a weak leader.
Trump would have done what was needed to be done as Trump has a set of balls.


What you are saying was that NATO would have had the resources and forces to do something about stopping the Russians at a moment's notice. The problem is, Ukraine is possibly not seen as much more of a country than that which produces a considerable amount of wheat. 40-something million people with an average income of about what I make in 2 months working a part-time job. The eastern parts of Ukraine has separatist movements looking to join Russia.

With this in mind, it is unlikely that the EU and NATO want to do much more than to supply Ukraine with weapons and ammunition, as well as to push sanctions onto Russia. Though, I doubt that they would really care if most or all of Ukraine falls to Russia. Maybe Russia is going to become another USSR, and maybe the world would want that to be the way.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by aquascoot on Apr 20th, 2023 at 3:04pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 2:56pm:

aquascoot wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 2:44pm:
you are such a dumbie matty fisk.

politics is now a reality tv show.

just like reality tv, most of the day is boring and so they just get the few interesting bits and those are the dramatic bits and they sell that to the public and the public love it.


good guys and bad guys, heroes and villians .

american politics is now akin to "the real housewifes of washington"

smart politicians know you get NO brownie points for slaving away at your desk 18 hrs a day.
if you do that, you will become a nobody and disappear.

the smart pollie knows that to win the game, you have to have a big personality.

you have to be a trump or an AOC or a lydia thorpe or a jaqui lambie or a pauline hanson or a maxine waters .
you have to be a star.

you and gweg are totally addicted to the soap opera. admit it.

there are heaps of mayors and congressmen and politicians doing a good solid job and you have no time for them, cant name them and have no interest in them

you are the audience, the "entertainer in chief" is playing to.
congratulations.
without people like you, there would be no trump

if you were devoted to family and career and community , trump would wither on the vine.

your love of the drama is the reason the drama exists.

so dont be blaming trump
go look in the mirror.
he is the manifestation of your low vibration state  ;D ;D ;D



Matty and Greggy love it.   ;D


they love love love it.
they are 'the real housewives of washingtons" biggest fans
they love that all they get to watch is the drama
they love the sexual scandals and the capitol riots and the BLM riots and the name calling and the good v evil.
they dont want sober sensible rational government
they would be bored to death
the drama is what they are addicted on because they have no drama going on in their own boring lives.

trump has built skyscrpaers. mixed with models, rubbed shoulders with rocket boy, gone to best parties, been the focus of attention, had millions of screaming fans attend his rallies, been loved and hated.

he has done EVRYTHING they have not and they are so so so jealous  :D :D :D

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 20th, 2023 at 3:14pm

aquascoot wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 3:04pm:
they love love love it.
they are 'the real housewives of washingtons" biggest fans
they love that all they get to watch is the drama
they love the sexual scandals and the capitol riots and the BLM riots and the name calling and the good v evil.
they dont want sober sensible rational government
they would be bored to death
the drama is what they are addicted on because they have no drama going on in their own boring lives.

trump has built skyscrpaers. mixed with models, rubbed shoulders with rocket boy, gone to best parties, been the focus of attention, had millions of screaming fans attend his rallies, been loved and hated.

he has done EVRYTHING they have not and they are so so so jealous  :D :D :D



And for them sleepy Joe can do no wrong:



Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by aquascoot on Apr 20th, 2023 at 3:31pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 3:14pm:

aquascoot wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 3:04pm:
they love love love it.
they are 'the real housewives of washingtons" biggest fans
they love that all they get to watch is the drama
they love the sexual scandals and the capitol riots and the BLM riots and the name calling and the good v evil.
they dont want sober sensible rational government
they would be bored to death
the drama is what they are addicted on because they have no drama going on in their own boring lives.

trump has built skyscrpaers. mixed with models, rubbed shoulders with rocket boy, gone to best parties, been the focus of attention, had millions of screaming fans attend his rallies, been loved and hated.

he has done EVRYTHING they have not and they are so so so jealous  :D :D :D



And for them sleepy Joe can do no wrong:




;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Mattyfisk on Apr 20th, 2023 at 5:33pm

aquascoot wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 2:44pm:
you are such a dumbie matty fisk.

politics is now a reality tv show.

just like reality tv, most of the day is boring and so they just get the few interesting bits and those are the dramatic bits and they sell that to the public and the public love it.


good guys and bad guys, heroes and villians .

american politics is now akin to "the real housewifes of washington"

smart politicians know you get NO brownie points for slaving away at your desk 18 hrs a day.
if you do that, you will become a nobody and disappear.

the smart pollie knows that to win the game, you have to have a big personality.

you have to be a trump or an AOC or a lydia thorpe or a jaqui lambie or a pauline hanson or a maxine waters .
you have to be a star.

you and gweg are totally addicted to the soap opera. admit it.

there are heaps of mayors and congressmen and politicians doing a good solid job and you have no time for them, cant name them and have no interest in them

you are the audience, the "entertainer in chief" is playing to.
congratulations.
without people like you, there would be no trump

if you were devoted to family and career and community , trump would wither on the vine.

your love of the drama is the reason the drama exists.

so dont be blaming trump
go look in the mirror.
he is the manifestation of your low vibration state  ;D ;D ;D


Vlad is the coldest fish in the tank, dear. He is the very manifestation of the low vibration state. He's a cold-blooded plotter. He came to power by sticking time bombs in Russian apartment buildings. His latest is the bombing of Ukrainian schools and hospitals. He's the only world leader currently on an Interpol watch list for war crimes. If his private jet ever passes through European airspace, fighter jets will escort him to the nearest airport, where he will be arrested and sent to the Hague.

Politics, as understood by all noble citizens, is about providing the maximum good to the greatest number of people. It is about minimising your fellow citizens' pain. For Vlad, it is the exact opposite. He is the first leader to invade a sovereign European country since WWII. He is universally despised by all noble citizens.

Your Dear Leader is just an imitator. All he ever achieved in office was a few new moves to the Village People. That, and a lot of pain to the greatest number. He certainly achieved the highest death toll - for the most spending too. By every measure as a modern world leader, he failed. You've even conceded that.

But I'm curious. What sort of deplorable would go for Vlad?

You?

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Mattyfisk on Apr 20th, 2023 at 5:45pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 2:56pm:

aquascoot wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 2:44pm:
you are such a dumbie matty fisk.

politics is now a reality tv show.

just like reality tv, most of the day is boring and so they just get the few interesting bits and those are the dramatic bits and they sell that to the public and the public love it.


good guys and bad guys, heroes and villians .

american politics is now akin to "the real housewifes of washington"

smart politicians know you get NO brownie points for slaving away at your desk 18 hrs a day.
if you do that, you will become a nobody and disappear.

the smart pollie knows that to win the game, you have to have a big personality.

you have to be a trump or an AOC or a lydia thorpe or a jaqui lambie or a pauline hanson or a maxine waters .
you have to be a star.

you and gweg are totally addicted to the soap opera. admit it.

there are heaps of mayors and congressmen and politicians doing a good solid job and you have no time for them, cant name them and have no interest in them

you are the audience, the "entertainer in chief" is playing to.
congratulations.
without people like you, there would be no trump

if you were devoted to family and career and community , trump would wither on the vine.

your love of the drama is the reason the drama exists.

so dont be blaming trump
go look in the mirror.
he is the manifestation of your low vibration state  ;D ;D ;D



Matty and Greggy love it.   ;D


Just so. Yesterday, we got to see Fox News own up to a $786,000,000 lie. Two weeks ago, we witnessed your Dear Leader put his shoulder through a Manhattan courtroom door when he didn't have it opened for him.

We'll win so much. Very soon, we'll get to see Aquascoot's "noble Vlad" die of cancer. I've already met Russians in voluntary exile burning through their life savings waiting on this.

Beware the one in whom the instinct to punish is strong, Bobby. Your Dear Leader is the "law and order candidate". You like a good hanging, no?

When you hang a man, Bobby, you'd better look him in the eye.

You.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by aquascoot on Apr 20th, 2023 at 5:49pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 5:33pm:

aquascoot wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 2:44pm:
you are such a dumbie matty fisk.

politics is now a reality tv show.

just like reality tv, most of the day is boring and so they just get the few interesting bits and those are the dramatic bits and they sell that to the public and the public love it.


good guys and bad guys, heroes and villians .

american politics is now akin to "the real housewifes of washington"

smart politicians know you get NO brownie points for slaving away at your desk 18 hrs a day.
if you do that, you will become a nobody and disappear.

the smart pollie knows that to win the game, you have to have a big personality.

you have to be a trump or an AOC or a lydia thorpe or a jaqui lambie or a pauline hanson or a maxine waters .
you have to be a star.

you and gweg are totally addicted to the soap opera. admit it.

there are heaps of mayors and congressmen and politicians doing a good solid job and you have no time for them, cant name them and have no interest in them

you are the audience, the "entertainer in chief" is playing to.
congratulations.
without people like you, there would be no trump

if you were devoted to family and career and community , trump would wither on the vine.

your love of the drama is the reason the drama exists.

so dont be blaming trump
go look in the mirror.
he is the manifestation of your low vibration state  ;D ;D ;D


Vlad is the coldest fish in the tank, dear. He is the very manifestation of the low vibration state. He's a cold-blooded plotter. He came to power by sticking time bombs in Russian apartment buildings. His latest is the bombing of Ukrainian schools and hospitals. He's the only world leader currently on an Interpol watch list for war crimes. If his private jet ever passes through European airspace, fighter jets will escort him to the nearest airport, where he will be arrested and sent to the Hague.

Politics, as understood by all noble citizens, is about providing the maximum good to the greatest number of people. It is about minimising your fellow citizens' pain. For Vlad, it is the exact opposite. He is the first leader to invade a sovereign European country since WWII. He is universally despised by all noble citizens.

Your Dear Leader is just an imitator. All he ever achieved in office was a few new moves to the Village People. That, and a lot of pain to the greatest number. He certainly achieved the highest death toll - for the most spending too. By every measure as a modern world leader, he failed. You've even conceded that.

But I'm curious. What sort of deplorable would go for Vlad?

You?


vlad is a james bond type character.
you consider him a villain, his own supporters consider him a super hero.
either way, he has a starring role in the drama and hence he has taken up residence in your head

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 20th, 2023 at 6:28pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 5:45pm:
Just so. Yesterday, we got to see Fox News own up to a $786,000,000 lie. Two weeks ago, we witnessed your Dear Leader put his shoulder through a Manhattan courtroom door when he didn't have it opened for him.

We'll win so much. Very soon, we'll get to see Aquascoot's "noble Vlad" die of cancer. I've already met Russians in voluntary exile burning through their life savings waiting on this.

Beware the one in whom the instinct to punish is strong, Bobby. Your Dear Leader is the "law and order candidate". You like a good hanging, no?

When you hang a man, Bobby, you'd better look him in the eye.

You.



I know you wanna hang Trump
but you couldn't do the job - you're too weak -
you have to look at em.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZTe-_yqmhQ

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Mattyfisk on Apr 20th, 2023 at 6:33pm

aquascoot wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 5:49pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 5:33pm:

aquascoot wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 2:44pm:
you are such a dumbie matty fisk.

politics is now a reality tv show.

just like reality tv, most of the day is boring and so they just get the few interesting bits and those are the dramatic bits and they sell that to the public and the public love it.


good guys and bad guys, heroes and villians .

american politics is now akin to "the real housewifes of washington"

smart politicians know you get NO brownie points for slaving away at your desk 18 hrs a day.
if you do that, you will become a nobody and disappear.

the smart pollie knows that to win the game, you have to have a big personality.

you have to be a trump or an AOC or a lydia thorpe or a jaqui lambie or a pauline hanson or a maxine waters .
you have to be a star.

you and gweg are totally addicted to the soap opera. admit it.

there are heaps of mayors and congressmen and politicians doing a good solid job and you have no time for them, cant name them and have no interest in them

you are the audience, the "entertainer in chief" is playing to.
congratulations.
without people like you, there would be no trump

if you were devoted to family and career and community , trump would wither on the vine.

your love of the drama is the reason the drama exists.

so dont be blaming trump
go look in the mirror.
he is the manifestation of your low vibration state  ;D ;D ;D


Vlad is the coldest fish in the tank, dear. He is the very manifestation of the low vibration state. He's a cold-blooded plotter. He came to power by sticking time bombs in Russian apartment buildings. His latest is the bombing of Ukrainian schools and hospitals. He's the only world leader currently on an Interpol watch list for war crimes. If his private jet ever passes through European airspace, fighter jets will escort him to the nearest airport, where he will be arrested and sent to the Hague.

Politics, as understood by all noble citizens, is about providing the maximum good to the greatest number of people. It is about minimising your fellow citizens' pain. For Vlad, it is the exact opposite. He is the first leader to invade a sovereign European country since WWII. He is universally despised by all noble citizens.

Your Dear Leader is just an imitator. All he ever achieved in office was a few new moves to the Village People. That, and a lot of pain to the greatest number. He certainly achieved the highest death toll - for the most spending too. By every measure as a modern world leader, he failed. You've even conceded that.

But I'm curious. What sort of deplorable would go for Vlad?

You?


vlad is a james bond type character.
you consider him a villain, his own supporters consider him a super hero.
either way, he has a starring role in the drama and hence he has taken up residence in your head


Oh, I know. We've seen you attributing him with every heroic accolade from ace fighter pilot to champion test cricketer.

He most certainly is not in my head dear. His hackers have my data. Vlad, grand chess master, judo expert and concert pianist has also single-handedly turned the Doomsday clock twenty minutes closer to midnight.

Yes, while your Dear Leader was busting his moves to the YMCA in 2020, Vlad was planning his invasion of Ukraine. Your Dear Leader's other pal Kim was happily developing his own long-range nuclear weapons system.

Strange, your Dear Leader was on Tucker only last week, entertaining the chodes with the N word he never dared to use, but now threatens life as we know it, if he's not erected in 2024.

These are the guys you profess to love.

Deslicable stuff.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by aquascoot on Apr 20th, 2023 at 7:34pm
these are the guys i profess to study.

i leave the adoration to you and gweg who hang around trump like lovesick teenagers

trump is the first president in 40 years to start no new wars

it is the biden administration who have moved the doomsday clock closer to midnight

vlad could respect donny as the type of guy who told nato to stop sucking on the USA's titties and that america would be looking after america . note vlad did not invade during trumps presidency because he felt his motherland to be safe

biden walked that all back and so vlad felt compelled to act.

why are the left the worlds new war mongers
:'( :'( :'( :'(

why do they love arming 16 yo ukrainian boys and sending them off to die.
:'( :'( :'( :'(

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 20th, 2023 at 10:58pm
https://consortiumnews.com/2023/04/17/leaks-spelling-the-end-for-ukraine/

Leaks Spelling the End for Ukraine

April 17, 2023
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Leaked U.S. intelligence documents have exposed Western disinformation  about Ukraine winning the war.
Now the heavy fighting moves to Washington, writes Joe Lauria. 


A Washington Post headline last week was a bombshell for someone who has only been reading about the Ukraine war in The Washington Post and other Western media: “U.S. doubts Ukraine counteroffensive will yield big gains, leaked document says.”

The story admits that Western media audiences have been misled about the course of the war, that essentially what mainstream media has been reporting about Ukraine has been a pack of lies: namely that Ukraine is winning the war and is poised to launch an offensive that will lead to a final victory.

Instead, the second paragraph of the piece makes clear the leaked documents show the long-planned Ukrainian offensive will fail miserably — “a marked departure from the Biden administration’s public statements about the vitality of Ukraine’s military.” 

In other words, U.S. officials have been lying about the state of the war to the public and to reporters who have faithfully reported their every word without a hint of skepticism.

The Post said, as if it’s a bad thing, that the leaks will likely “embolden critics who feel the United States and NATO should do more to push for a negotiated settlement to the conflict.”

That has begun to happen. Writing in the uber-Establishment Foreign Affairs, former State Department official Richard Haass and Charles Kupchan, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, write that “it is difficult to feel sanguine about where the war is headed.”

In “The West Needs a New Strategy in Ukraine: A Plan for Getting From the Battlefield to the Negotiating Table,” they say:

“The best path forward is a sequenced two-pronged strategy aimed at first bolstering Ukraine’s military capability and then, when the fighting season winds down late this year, ushering Moscow and Kyiv from the battlefield to the negotiating table.”

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Mattyfisk on Apr 21st, 2023 at 12:32am

aquascoot wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 7:34pm:
these are the guys i profess to study.

i leave the adoration to you and gweg who hang around trump like lovesick teenagers

trump is the first president in 40 years to start no new wars

it is the biden administration who have moved the doomsday clock closer to midnight

vlad could respect donny as the type of guy who told nato to stop sucking on the USA's titties and that america would be looking after america . note vlad did not invade during trumps presidency because he felt his motherland to be safe

biden walked that all back and so vlad felt compelled to act.

why are the left the worlds new war mongers
:'( :'( :'( :'(

why do they love arming 16 yo ukrainian boys and sending them off to die.
:'( :'( :'( :'(


Incorrect. Ukrainians are defending themselves against your Dear Leader, who enabled Vlad to invade. Your Dear Leader is the first president to withhold congressional military aid to a country under seige. He is the first prez to stand before the world and say this: I see no reason why it would be Russia. He subsequently called Vlad a genius, a peacemaker, very savvy, and said he knows him well.

Vlad currently holds a video of him being pissed on by Russian hos.

Not looking good, is it?

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by aquascoot on Apr 21st, 2023 at 4:32am

Karnal wrote on Apr 21st, 2023 at 12:32am:

aquascoot wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 7:34pm:
these are the guys i profess to study.

i leave the adoration to you and gweg who hang around trump like lovesick teenagers

trump is the first president in 40 years to start no new wars

it is the biden administration who have moved the doomsday clock closer to midnight

vlad could respect donny as the type of guy who told nato to stop sucking on the USA's titties and that america would be looking after america . note vlad did not invade during trumps presidency because he felt his motherland to be safe

biden walked that all back and so vlad felt compelled to act.

why are the left the worlds new war mongers
:'( :'( :'( :'(

why do they love arming 16 yo ukrainian boys and sending them off to die.
:'( :'( :'( :'(


Incorrect. Ukrainians are defending themselves against your Dear Leader, who enabled Vlad to invade. Your Dear Leader is the first president to withhold congressional military aid to a country under seige. He is the first prez to stand before the world and say this: I see no reason why it would be Russia. He subsequently called Vlad a genius, a peacemaker, very savvy, and said he knows him well.

Vlad currently holds a video of him being pissed on by Russian hos.

Not looking good, is it?


what video  ;D ;D ;D ;D.

even if he did, that wouldnt drop donnys ratings

it would confirm he is a party animal.

Jill biden has similar videos of being pissed on by Joe but its because he gets confused at night and cant find the toilet.

Donny is the first president in 40 years to not start a war.

vlad hates having nato on his doorstep. but he felt safe with donny in charge because donny was telling nato to fig off.

then sleepy joe comes in and starts cosying up to nato and vlad moves to secure his borders.

why did the left start and now support this newest version of vietnam

why the turnaround?

the ultra woke washington post published an article a few years ago on the total corruption of ukraine , painting it as worse then russia

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by freediver on Apr 21st, 2023 at 6:12am

Quote:
Leaked U.S. intelligence documents have exposed Western disinformation  about Ukraine winning the war.


I must have missed that bit of disinformation Bobby. You?

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 21st, 2023 at 7:53am

freediver wrote on Apr 21st, 2023 at 6:12am:

Quote:
Leaked U.S. intelligence documents have exposed Western disinformation  about Ukraine winning the war.


I must have missed that bit of disinformation Bobby. You?



Hi FD,
you could easily put  "Ukraine is winning the war" into Google and check.


Example:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/21/qa-dr-pavel-felgenhauer-russia-ukraine-war

Felgenhauer: The Russian military turned out to be not as strong as not only the West believes, but its own leadership believes. It’s not ready for modern warfare.

The Ukrainians are much better, they were better prepared organisationally and in terms of command and control, in terms of command personnel, and then they got better weapons than the Russians.

The Russian military has been isolated for more than 100 years from world tendencies in war-making. They are still living in the world of tanks, believing that if you mass enough, victory falls into your lap.


Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Mattyfisk on Apr 21st, 2023 at 3:53pm

aquascoot wrote on Apr 21st, 2023 at 4:32am:

Karnal wrote on Apr 21st, 2023 at 12:32am:

aquascoot wrote on Apr 20th, 2023 at 7:34pm:
these are the guys i profess to study.

i leave the adoration to you and gweg who hang around trump like lovesick teenagers

trump is the first president in 40 years to start no new wars

it is the biden administration who have moved the doomsday clock closer to midnight

vlad could respect donny as the type of guy who told nato to stop sucking on the USA's titties and that america would be looking after america . note vlad did not invade during trumps presidency because he felt his motherland to be safe

biden walked that all back and so vlad felt compelled to act.

why are the left the worlds new war mongers
:'( :'( :'( :'(

why do they love arming 16 yo ukrainian boys and sending them off to die.
:'( :'( :'( :'(


Incorrect. Ukrainians are defending themselves against your Dear Leader, who enabled Vlad to invade. Your Dear Leader is the first president to withhold congressional military aid to a country under seige. He is the first prez to stand before the world and say this: I see no reason why it would be Russia. He subsequently called Vlad a genius, a peacemaker, very savvy, and said he knows him well.

Vlad currently holds a video of him being pissed on by Russian hos.

Not looking good, is it?


what video  ;D ;D ;D ;D.

even if he did, that wouldnt drop donnys ratings

it would confirm he is a party animal.

Jill biden has similar videos of being pissed on by Joe but its because he gets confused at night and cant find the toilet.

Donny is the first president in 40 years to not start a war.

vlad hates having nato on his doorstep. but he felt safe with donny in charge because donny was telling nato to fig off.

then sleepy joe comes in and starts cosying up to nato and vlad moves to secure his borders.

why did the left start and now support this newest version of vietnam

why the turnaround?

the ultra woke washington post published an article a few years ago on the total corruption of ukraine , painting it as worse then russia


Ratings? That video places the security of the USA at risk, dear. Why do you think John McCain thought it was serious enough to report to the FBI? Why do you think Comey had to have a sit down with the big fella to discuss?

Donnie never denied it, by the way. Horseface, sure, vehemently denied. E Jean, not his type. But a claque of Russian hookers and a video in the Kremlin barely raised an eyebrow.

Every one of hose security concerns were substantiated during the big fella's short time in office. He defended Vlad at every turn, from charges of election interference to Ukrainian military aid. Donnie's still a security risk. Who knows how much classified info he's stashed away? Who knows how many secret calls he's had with Vlad?

Donnie might not have started the Ukraine invasion, but he sure did everything he could to look the other way.

How many wars did Obama and Sleepy Joe start?

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by freediver on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 8:00am

Bobby. wrote on Apr 21st, 2023 at 7:53am:

freediver wrote on Apr 21st, 2023 at 6:12am:

Quote:
Leaked U.S. intelligence documents have exposed Western disinformation  about Ukraine winning the war.


I must have missed that bit of disinformation Bobby. You?



Hi FD,
you could easily put  "Ukraine is winning the war" into Google and check.


Example:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/21/qa-dr-pavel-felgenhauer-russia-ukraine-war

Felgenhauer: The Russian military turned out to be not as strong as not only the West believes, but its own leadership believes. It’s not ready for modern warfare.

The Ukrainians are much better, they were better prepared organisationally and in terms of command and control, in terms of command personnel, and then they got better weapons than the Russians.

The Russian military has been isolated for more than 100 years from world tendencies in war-making. They are still living in the world of tanks, believing that if you mass enough, victory falls into your lap.


Thanks Bobby. Would you mind pointing out the bit about Ukraine winning the war?

Has Moscow fallen yet?

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Xavier on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 8:01am
Zelensky should invade Moscow in the Winter
just like Napoleon and Hitler did.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by UnSubRocky on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 2:42pm

Jasin wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 8:01am:
Zelensky should invade Moscow in the Winter
just like Napoleon and Hitler did.


<sarcasm>Uhuh. And whilst he is at it, he can take a short detour to the moon to erect a statue of himself </sarcasm>.

Are you f'n stupid or something? Even as a joke, your post makes no value to the conversation.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 2:48pm
What does Russell think?

Jack Teixeira - the  National Guard airman arrested over leaked Pentagon documents
gets quite a few mentions:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_aJHLABuh4

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 3:03pm

freediver wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 8:00am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 21st, 2023 at 7:53am:

freediver wrote on Apr 21st, 2023 at 6:12am:

Quote:
Leaked U.S. intelligence documents have exposed Western disinformation  about Ukraine winning the war.


I must have missed that bit of disinformation Bobby. You?



Hi FD,
you could easily put  "Ukraine is winning the war" into Google and check.


Example:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/21/qa-dr-pavel-felgenhauer-russia-ukraine-war

Felgenhauer: The Russian military turned out to be not as strong as not only the West believes, but its own leadership believes. It’s not ready for modern warfare.

The Ukrainians are much better, they were better prepared organisationally and in terms of command and control, in terms of command personnel, and then they got better weapons than the Russians.

The Russian military has been isolated for more than 100 years from world tendencies in war-making. They are still living in the world of tanks, believing that if you mass enough, victory falls into your lap.


Thanks Bobby. Would you mind pointing out the bit about Ukraine winning the war?

Has Moscow fallen yet?



Not yet:


'Ukraine is winning this war, the only question is how fast and at what price' • FRANCE 24 English


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az88R6vw9Iw

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 3:05pm
More for FD,


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/02/20/ukraine-military-strategy-adaptation-victory/


Why Ukraine will win the war


By Mark Hertling
February 20, 2023 at 6:00 a.m. EST


Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by freediver on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 3:05pm
They are French Bobby.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 3:06pm

freediver wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 3:05pm:
They are French Bobby.



The Washington post is a Yanky outfit.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by freediver on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 3:41pm
Ah. So the west is spreading disinformation about the future?

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 3:48pm

freediver wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 3:41pm:
Ah. So the west is spreading disinformation about the future?


yes

"Leaked U.S. intelligence documents have exposed Western disinformation
about Ukraine winning the war."

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Mattyfisk on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 4:10pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 3:48pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 3:41pm:
Ah. So the west is spreading disinformation about the future?


yes

"Leaked U.S. intelligence documents have exposed Western disinformation
about Ukraine winning the war."


Which cunningly excuses Vlad's disinformation in a stark moral equivalency, highlighting the belief that, as the big fella famously argued when asked about Vlad poisoning his political opponents,  "America is just as bad".

Yes, if there are no Russian apologists present to excuse the invasion of a peaceful European country, the rape, massacre and bombing of civilian populations, we can surely make the case ourselves, no?

But I'm curious. What kind of man would seek to excuse the actions of a kleptocratic Russian regime, bent not only on the slaughter of Ukrainian civilians, but the deaths of tens of thousands of conscripted Russian soldiers, sent in to fight an unwinnable war?

A Superior Man, surely, an Alpha warrior, not so much a man as a God.

You?

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 4:17pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 4:10pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 3:48pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 3:41pm:
Ah. So the west is spreading disinformation about the future?


yes

"Leaked U.S. intelligence documents have exposed Western disinformation
about Ukraine winning the war."


Which cunningly excuses Vlad's disinformation in a stark moral equivalency, highlighting the belief that, as the big fella famously argued when asked about Vlad poisoning his political opponents,  "America is just as bad".

Yes, if there are no Russian apologists present to excuse the invasion of a peaceful European country, the rape, massacre and bombing of civilian populations, we can surely make the case ourselves, no?

But I'm curious. What kind of man would seek to excuse the actions of a kleptocratic Russian regime, bent not only on the slaughter of Ukrainian civilians, but the deaths of tens of thousands of conscripted Russian soldiers, sent in to fight an unwinnable war?

A Superior Man, surely, an Alpha warrior, not so much a man as a God.

You?



War shows the stupidity of mankind.
The first casualty of war is the truth.
Neither Ukraine nor Russia reveal their true losses -
especially the number of dead soldiers and civilians -
the truth is hidden and most people accept it.

My opinion is that NATO should have either joined in immediately in Feb. 2022 or
not given Ukraine any help.
Why should only Ukrainians die to help Europe out against the mad Russians?


Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by freediver on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 4:33pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 3:48pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 3:41pm:
Ah. So the west is spreading disinformation about the future?


yes

"Leaked U.S. intelligence documents have exposed Western disinformation
about Ukraine winning the war."


If they are talking about the future, how do you know it is disinformation?

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 4:41pm

freediver wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 4:33pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 3:48pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 3:41pm:
Ah. So the west is spreading disinformation about the future?


yes

"Leaked U.S. intelligence documents have exposed Western disinformation
about Ukraine winning the war."


If they are talking about the future, how do you know it is disinformation?



Dear FD,
don't get too tied up with exact definitions of words.
The fact is that the West is talking up the chance of a Ukrainian win
and it's part of the propaganda always used in wars.
In WW2 Germany kept up morale by insisting they would win,
the Allies did the same.
Right now Russian TV keeps up their morale with fake - "we're sure to win" stories.
It's all part of war bullshit.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by freediver on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 5:02pm
The Ukraine war has been going for almost ten years now Bobby. If Ukraine had no chance of winning, they would have lost by now. Every year it drags on is a win for Ukraine.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 5:05pm

freediver wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 5:02pm:
The Ukraine war has been going for almost ten years now Bobby. If Ukraine had no chance of winning, they would have lost by now.
Every year it drags on is a win for Ukraine.



It's not a win for all the dead Ukrainians.
How many have died? - no one knows for sure.

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by freediver on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 6:35pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 5:05pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 5:02pm:
The Ukraine war has been going for almost ten years now Bobby. If Ukraine had no chance of winning, they would have lost by now.
Every year it drags on is a win for Ukraine.



It's not a win for all the dead Ukrainians.
How many have died? - no one knows for sure.


What are you trying to say Bobby? War is bad?

Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Bobby. on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 10:16pm

freediver wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 6:35pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 5:05pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 5:02pm:
The Ukraine war has been going for almost ten years now Bobby. If Ukraine had no chance of winning, they would have lost by now.
Every year it drags on is a win for Ukraine.



It's not a win for all the dead Ukrainians.
How many have died? - no one knows for sure.


What are you trying to say Bobby? War is bad?



It's very bad indeed  -

mankind has to find a better way to solve its problems than killing each other.


Title: Re: Has Ukraine lied about their losses?
Post by Dnarever on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 11:04pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 3:48pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 22nd, 2023 at 3:41pm:
Ah. So the west is spreading disinformation about the future?


yes

"Leaked U.S. intelligence documents have exposed Western disinformation
about Ukraine winning the war."


The documents most on the right have commented on (The numbers on Fox) it turns out were modified to favor Russia. They were not the real numbers.

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