https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/31/europe/medvedev-russia-nuclear-weapons-intl-hnk/index.html

Mon July 31, 2023


Medvedev says Russia could use nuclear weapon
if Ukraine’s fightback succeeds in latest threat.


https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/230731132307-dmitry-medvedev-0718.jpg


CNN  —

Russia may be forced to use a nuclear weapon
if Ukraine’s counteroffensive succeeds, senior Russian official Dmitry Medvedev said Sunday – the latest in a series of nuclear threats made during Moscow’s invasion by the key ally of President Vladimir Putin.

“Just imagine that the offensive… in tandem with NATO, succeeded and ended up with part of our land being taken away. Then we would have to use nuclear weapons by virtue of the stipulations of the Russian Presidential Decree,” said Medvedev, the deputy chairman of Russia’s Security Council, in a Telegram post.

“There simply wouldn’t be any other solution,” the former Russian president added. “Our enemies should pray to our fighters that they do not allow the world to go up in nuclear flames.”

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-medvedev-wed-have-use-nuclear-weapon-if-ukrainian-offensive-was-success-2023-07-30/

Russia's Medvedev:
We'd have to use a nuclear weapon if Ukrainian offensive was a success


By Andrew Osborn
July 30, 202310:08 PM GMT+10Updated a day ago



MOSCOW, July 30 (Reuters) - Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, who has sometimes raised the spectre of a nuclear conflict over Ukraine, said on Sunday that Moscow would have to use a nuclear weapon if Kyiv's ongoing counter-offensive was a success.

Medvedev, who is deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, a body chaired by President Vladimir Putin, said in a message on his official social media accounts that Russia would be forced to fall back on its own nuclear doctrine in such a scenario.

"Imagine if the.. offensive, which is backed by NATO, was a success and they tore off a part of our land then we would be forced to use a nuclear weapon according to the rules of a decree from the president of Russia.

"There would simply be no other option. So our enemies should pray for our warriors' (success). They are making sure that a global nuclear fire is not ignited," he said.

Medvedev, who has cast himself as one of Moscow's most hawkish voices, appeared to be referring to part of Russia's nuclear doctrine which sets out that nuclear weapons can be used in response to aggression against Russia carried out using conventional weapons which threatens the existence of the Russian state.

Ukraine is trying to retake territory which Russia has unilaterally annexed and declared to be part of its own territory, a move condemned by Kyiv and much of the West.

Putin said on Saturday that there were no serious battlefield changes to report in recent days and that Ukraine had lost large amounts of military equipment since June 4. Kyiv says its forces are making some progress in their drive to retake territory, albeit at a slower pace than desired.

Kremlin critics have in the past accused Medvedev of making extreme statements in an effort to dissuade Western countries from continuing to supply Ukraine with arms.
Reporting by Andrew Osborn Editing by Susan Fenton

We have similar conditions to WW2.

One side has nuclear weapons and the other doesn't.   :-/

This is a kind of admittion. If they think they need a nuclear strike, they must actually believe Ukraine can win. It remains to be seen if Putin is quite as stupid as Medvedev, and what such a strike would mean to the EU, NATO, and the rest of the world. If the Russian military is so incompetent that they have to play their last card, it will likely be the end of the Federation.

issuecoper

issuevoter wrote on Jul 31^st, 2023 at 11:05pm:

This is a kind of admittion. If they think they need a nuclear strike, they must actually believe Ukraine can win. It remains to be seen if Putin is quite as stupid as Medvedev, and what such a strike would mean to the EU, NATO, and the rest of the world. If the Russian military is so incompetent that they have to play their last card, it will likely be the end of the Federation.

Then again - I doubt Russia would turn Kiev into another Hiroshima -

they are more likely to use nukes on the battlefield.

It's stupidity and yet .. it's the possibility of the insanity that works on Biden and the rest.  They won't fully supply Ukraine with missiles and jets.  'Russia has about 4,477 deployed and reserve nuclear warheads', an insane amount. The criminally insane are dangerous people.

Whether governments admire Putin's fascist methods or not, it would be hard to ignore radioactive fall-out in their territory and air space.

issuevoter wrote on Aug 1^st, 2023 at 7:29am:

Whether governments admire Putin's fascist methods or not, it would be hard to ignore radioactive fall-out in their territory and air space.

Human beings?
Look at how stupid we are right now -
we are threatened with global nuclear war over 4 small areas of land in Ukraine
that 2 years ago no one had ever heard of and from Russia which is already the largest country in the world
so has plenty of land - so much land that most of it has no one living there.
So we fight over pure greed for more of what we already have in abundance.
That shows little hope for our long term future.

The impulse for empire has sent armed men everywhere. Russia and China are both in the market now and have an equal chance against US.

chimera wrote on Aug 1^st, 2023 at 8:01am:

The impulse for empire has sent armed men everywhere. Russia and China are both in the market now and have an equal chance against US.

But Russia has no excuse -
it's already the largest country in the world -
it doesn't need more land.

Alexander had west Asia but needed India as well.
Rome had Europe and needed more.
Britain had 1/4 of the world which wasn't enough.

ABC News:
'It will demand some tough calls on the allocation of Ukrainian forces between the north and the south. Much hard fighting remains ahead of us.
Mick Ryan is a strategist and retired Australian Army major general.'
--
Maybe he meant 'ahead of US' but probably he means 'Oz'.
Does Albanese plan conscription for the big push against Moscow?

no they wont

JC Denton wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2023 at 9:07am:

no they wont

But we can never be sure while such weapons exist.

Russia is a dictatorship. Opposition jailed or murdered. Dissent delt with by police. News media and education heavily censored.

However, if Putin commanded them to fire nuclear armed missiles at Ukraine, Europe or the US, would those in control actually follow those orders? These are educated and somewhat worldly officers, not the same as the East-Donbass turnip-farmers that Putin gave the BUKs to, and then shot down a Malaysian airliner by mistake.

issuevoter wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2023 at 2:47pm:

Russia is a dictatorship. Opposition jailed or murdered. Dissent delt with by police. News media and education heavily censored. However, if Putin commanded them to fire nuclear armed missiles at Ukraine, Europe or the US, would those in control actually follow those orders? These are educated and somewhat worldly officers, not the same as the East-Donbass turnip-farmers that Putin gave the BUKs to, and then shot down a Malaysian airliner by mistake.

Putin is the reincarnation of Hitler.

Would Hitler have used nukes?

issuevoter wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2023 at 2:47pm:

, would those in control actually follow those orders? These are educated and somewhat worldly officers, not the same as the East-Donbass turnip-farmers that Putin gave the BUKs to, and then shot down a Malaysian airliner by mistake

Igor Girkin: Of the three men sentenced to life in jail, Girkin is the best known. Also known as Igor Strelkov, he is an ex-colonel in Russia's FSB security service.
Sergei Dubinsky: Another Russian citizen and former officer in Russia's GRU military intelligence, Dubinsky was a deputy of Igor Girkin when MH17 was brought down.

Bobby. wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2023 at 2:59pm:

issuevoter wrote on Aug 3rd, 2023 at 2:47pm: Russia is a dictatorship. Opposition jailed or murdered. Dissent delt with by police. News media and education heavily censored. However, if Putin commanded them to fire nuclear armed missiles at Ukraine, Europe or the US, would those in control actually follow those orders? These are educated and somewhat worldly officers, not the same as the East-Donbass turnip-farmers that Putin gave the BUKs to, and then shot down a Malaysian airliner by mistake. Putin is the reincarnation of Hitler. Would Hitler have used nukes?

Very poetic, but the situation is different even with Putin's fascist methods. And I don't believe in reincarnation.

issuevoter wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2023 at 7:36pm:

Very poetic, but the situation is different even with Putin's fascist methods. And I don't believe in reincarnation.

The spirit of Hitler lives on in the minds of other dictators.

'Zelenskiy notes that peoples and governments have lost confidence in the UN‘s ability and willingness to defend sovereign borders. He says that countries are forming new alliances outside the UN because of the way the UN has handled Russia’s invasion'.
The US and Australia have begun digging trenches on the western side of the UN, with a line of fire to the Russian Ambassador's office which has a S400 battery on the roof.
S-400 can be deployed in 5 minutes as opposed to Patriot's 25 minutes. Patriot's top speed of 1.38 km/sec is surpassed by the S-400's top speed of 4.8 km/sec.

Bobby. wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2023 at 2:59pm:

issuevoter wrote on Aug 3rd, 2023 at 2:47pm: Russia is a dictatorship. Opposition jailed or murdered. Dissent delt with by police. News media and education heavily censored. However, if Putin commanded them to fire nuclear armed missiles at Ukraine, Europe or the US, would those in control actually follow those orders? These are educated and somewhat worldly officers, not the same as the East-Donbass turnip-farmers that Putin gave the BUKs to, and then shot down a Malaysian airliner by mistake. Putin is the reincarnation of Hitler. Would Hitler have used nukes?

More of Stalin - the Russian mind craves a strong dictator - a de facto Tsar who will stomp heads to get his way... they are lost and leaderless without some arsehole to send them in waves to be slaughtered... dah - now is knowing what iss right, Tovarich!  For the Motherland - we attack at dawn!!  All traitors and cowards will be shot!!

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2023 at 12:40am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 3rd, 2023 at 2:59pm: issuevoter wrote on Aug 3rd, 2023 at 2:47pm: Russia is a dictatorship. Opposition jailed or murdered. Dissent delt with by police. News media and education heavily censored. However, if Putin commanded them to fire nuclear armed missiles at Ukraine, Europe or the US, would those in control actually follow those orders? These are educated and somewhat worldly officers, not the same as the East-Donbass turnip-farmers that Putin gave the BUKs to, and then shot down a Malaysian airliner by mistake. Putin is the reincarnation of Hitler. Would Hitler have used nukes? More of Stalin - the Russian mind craves a strong dictator

Bobby's an Aussie, dear.

Aussie Aussie Aussie, da?

When Russia gave orders in the revolution there were 5.5mill Reds and 1,023,000 Whites in May 1919. The Tsar had been shot the previous year but Whites kept obeying orders.  Reds obeyed orders to kill them. Then Ukrainians. Then Poles. Anyone, really.

chimera wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2023 at 7:47am:

When Russia gave orders in the revolution there were 5.5mill Reds and 1,023,000 Whites in May 1919. The Tsar had been shot the previous year but Whites kept obeying orders.  Reds obeyed orders to kill them. Then Ukrainians. Then Poles. Anyone, really.

I reckon if Hitler had not invaded the Western countries:
France, Poland Holland etc -
the West may have joined him in defeating Russia.

The Russians were always ruthless criminals.

Maybe not. The US was isolated and didn't declare war in Europe until Hitler pushed them in 1941. UK then was repelled in Africa and lost Singapore. Churchill asked are there any generals who want to fight.  He gave them two fingers and they gave him five fingers.

chimera wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2023 at 8:19am:

Maybe not. The US was isolated and didn't declare war in Europe until Hitler pushed them in 1941. UK then was repelled in Africa and lost Singapore. Churchill asked are there any generals who want to fight.  He gave them two fingers and they gave him five fingers.

The UK's defeat in Singapore was the most cowardly action in Britain's history.
They were beaten by a force half their size of little starving, diseased Japs who had used
bicycles to cross a dangerous festering jungle carrying a few rounds of ammo each.
They also had no answer for the Japanese Zero which destroyed all their air power.
Even the large warships they sent were quickly sunk by the Japs.

With his back to the wall, Churchill gave the thumbs up as the Iron Curtain came down and planned to attack Stalin. Macarthur planned to invade Beijing. Kennedy tried to take Saigon. Trump held the Capitol then went to jail.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2023 at 7:59am:

chimera wrote on Sep 23rd, 2023 at 7:47am: When Russia gave orders in the revolution there were 5.5mill Reds and 1,023,000 Whites in May 1919. The Tsar had been shot the previous year but Whites kept obeying orders.  Reds obeyed orders to kill them. Then Ukrainians. Then Poles. Anyone, really. I reckon if Hitler had not invaded the Western countries: France, Poland Holland etc - the West may have joined him in defeating Russia. The Russians were always ruthless criminals.

Oh? You forget the sympathies of the international workers' movement. In the 1930s, France was led by the communist-leaning Popular Front. The Soviet Union had the backing of the world's labour movement. Uncle Joe was seen as a hard-working patriot. Even the mainstream media revered the Soviet Union's ablility to industrialise and develop at lightning pace. The Soviets, of course, cultivated this propaganda.

Lefties in the first world envied Russia for going communist first. Russians were only seen as cunts after the Hungarian and Czech invasions. Prior to that, they were generally seen as the good guys.

.

'After World War II, membership of the Communist Party of Australia had peaked at around 20,000 and Fred Paterson had won the seat of Bowen in the 1944 Queensland state election'.
At first it was paid for by convicts and rabbit thieves but gradually the universities turned pink then crimson. Taxpayers spent good money on Fred's parliamentay salary.

Karnal wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2023 at 1:29pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 23rd, 2023 at 7:59am: chimera wrote on Sep 23rd, 2023 at 7:47am: When Russia gave orders in the revolution there were 5.5mill Reds and 1,023,000 Whites in May 1919. The Tsar had been shot the previous year but Whites kept obeying orders.  Reds obeyed orders to kill them. Then Ukrainians. Then Poles. Anyone, really. I reckon if Hitler had not invaded the Western countries: France, Poland Holland etc - the West may have joined him in defeating Russia. The Russians were always ruthless criminals. Oh? You forget the sympathies of the international workers' movement. In the 1930s, France was led by the communist-leaning Popular Front. The Soviet Union had the backing of the world's labour movement. Uncle Joe was seen as a hard-working patriot. Even the mainstream media revered the Soviet Union's ablility to industrialise and develop at lightning pace. The Soviets, of course, cultivated this propaganda. Lefties in the first world envied Russia for going communist first. Russians were only seen as cunts after the Hungarian and Czech invasions. Prior to that, they were generally seen as the good guys.

That's not true -
the West was aware of how Stalin starved millions of Ukrainians to death
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
by stealing all their food well before WW2.
Stalin was a monster and everyone knew it.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2023 at 4:26pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 23rd, 2023 at 1:29pm: Bobby. wrote on Sep 23rd, 2023 at 7:59am: chimera wrote on Sep 23rd, 2023 at 7:47am: When Russia gave orders in the revolution there were 5.5mill Reds and 1,023,000 Whites in May 1919. The Tsar had been shot the previous year but Whites kept obeying orders.  Reds obeyed orders to kill them. Then Ukrainians. Then Poles. Anyone, really. I reckon if Hitler had not invaded the Western countries: France, Poland Holland etc - the West may have joined him in defeating Russia. The Russians were always ruthless criminals. Oh? You forget the sympathies of the international workers' movement. In the 1930s, France was led by the communist-leaning Popular Front. The Soviet Union had the backing of the world's labour movement. Uncle Joe was seen as a hard-working patriot. Even the mainstream media revered the Soviet Union's ablility to industrialise and develop at lightning pace. The Soviets, of course, cultivated this propaganda. Lefties in the first world envied Russia for going communist first. Russians were only seen as cunts after the Hungarian and Czech invasions. Prior to that, they were generally seen as the good guys. That's not true - the West was aware of how Stalin starved millions of Ukrainians to death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor by stealing all their food well before WW2. Stalin was a monster and everyone knew it.

That's true. It's also true that news of the famine was skewed and buried by the Western press:


Quote:

According to Patrick Wright,[22] Robert C. Tucker,[23] and Eugene Lyons,[24] one of the first Western Holodomor deniers was Walter Duranty, who won the 1932 Pulitzer prize in journalism, in the category of correspondence, for his dispatches on Soviet Union and the working out of the Five Year Plan.[25] In 1932, he wrote in the pages of The New York Times that "any report of a famine in Russia is today an exaggeration or malignant propaganda".[26] He said that while there was a bad harvest, and consequent food shortages, it did not rise to the level of a famine and that "there is no actual starvation or deaths from starvation, but there is widespread mortality from diseases due to malnutrition."[24][27] Some have disputed the validity of his distinction between death from starvation and death from disease that is exacerbated by malnutrition.[24]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor_denial#:~:text=Officially%2C%20the%20government%20of%20the,some%20Western%20journalists%20and%20intellectuals.

I'd recommend the film Mr Jones. Great movie:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Jones_(2019_film)

In the 30s and 40s, the Soviets were generally seen as a force for good in Western liberal, academic and media circles. This only changed slightly with George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia, about the Soviets in the Spanish Civil War. Animal Farm and 1984 were probably too metaphorical to be read as a specific critique of the USSR, although they certainly were.

Ultimately, it was the defection and publishing of Alexandr Solzhenitsyn's Day in the Life of Ivan Denisvich and Gulag Archipelago that saw the Western intelligencia turn on the Soviets in the late 1960s/70s.

From the 1930s to the 1970s, the labour movement, academic world and bourgeois left tended to view the USSR as benign. It was a right of passage for any well-connected young social democratic party member to visit the Soviet Union, tour their factories and collective farms.

If you were from a developing country, even more so. The Soviets funded engineering and other  scholarships for students throughout Asia, Africa and the Middle East. People in places as far flung as Cambodia and Yemen still know some Russian from their time spent in Russian universities.

This is the "Ruski Mir" Vlad would like to recreate, but he forgets that it was soft power, not hard power from the barrel of a gun.