AusGeoff wrote on Oct 13^th, 2023 at 11:23pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 13th, 2023 at 8:20am: ...And yet atheist causes have still killed more people than any other, despite their historical rarity. The fact that they can't even be bothered giving an excuse doesn't really take away from that. To support that claim, you'll need to provide verifiable citations.  I couldn't find any confirmatory references. At any rate you're (deliberately?) missing the point that I was making—that religion and its cause has, historically, started more wars (which are still ongoing today) than any supposed atheistic cause. Name me one current war raging today whereby one group of atheists is fighting another group of atheists. You can't, because it's never happened. freediver wrote on Oct 13th, 2023 at 8:20am: The fact that you are so eager to repeat the mistakes of the past just shows how dangerous atheist causes can be. Once again—based on this comment—as I suggested earlier, atheism does not have an enabling "cause".  It's nothing more than a personal state of mind held by an individual.  There is no "group-think" or doctrine or book of rules, or places of worshipful gatherings, or "wise men" telling us what to do with our lives.            freediver wrote on Oct 13th, 2023 at 8:20am: You are so smugly assured of your own righteousness that you think nothing of demanding that atheism be imposed on everyone else for their own good. Well, being "smug"—or not—about one's state of mind really has nothing to do with this argument.  Good try at slipping in an ad hominem though LOL. Anyway... no atheist, including me, would ever "demand" that atheism be "imposed" on everyone.  We don't offer absurd public "prayers" during national tragedies, or "pray" for children afflicted with cancer, or knock on people's doors trying to convince them that "God is the way".  Even the Australian parliament still has the antiquated, irrelevant, so-called "Lord's Prayer" recited at its every opening session!  Welcome back to the 1600s! freediver wrote on Oct 13th, 2023 at 8:20am: That's when the killing starts. If any other ideologue even hinted at what you do, they would be howled down as a dangerous extremist, yet when atheists do it it they somehow manage to convince themselves it is entirely normal. I'm afraid I have no idea what you mean by this.  Can you clarify further what the "at what you do" claim means? It's the Catholics, the Protestants, the Muslims, the Jews, the the Sikhs, and even the  Buddhists who've initiated numerous wars, driven—of course—by their religious views, and attempts to overthrow and/or abolish opposing religions. So, again, can you name me even one single war started solely in the name of, or for the cause of atheism?

Atheism has not really been around as a significant ideology for long, but in that time is has eclipsed pretty much every other ideology in death toll. The most popular ideology to include atheism is communism.

In China, the CCP starved over 50 million people to death last century. This was in an effort to feed them all equally. This death toll is in addition to all the people they killed intentionally.

In Russia, the soviets killed somewhere between 8 and 61 million people. Most likely about 20 million.

Despite only existing as a significant movement for a few decades, the global death toll from communism is probably around 100 million people. Possible far higher.

Yet we still have atheists who think that atheism is so special it should be forcibly imposed on everyone else, and they have the hypocrisy to use the history of other religious movements to justify their absurd, naive claims.

*breaks out the popcorn (*munch... *munch... *munch)

freediver wrote on Oct 16^th, 2023 at 12:27pm:

And yet atheist causes have still killed more people than any other

not as many as Israel ::)

John Smith wrote on Oct 16^th, 2023 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 16th, 2023 at 12:27pm: And yet atheist causes have still killed more people than any other not as many as Israel ::)

so says Mafia boy.  ::)

Ausgeoff's a Night Owl - this discussion might take awhile to click along.

This thread is a non-starter. The assertions are ludicrous. Atheism isn't any ism. Its the absense of ism, and that's a personal perspective. A government may ban religion, but that doesn't change minds. Theists and Atheists are as stupid as each other. "Oh, I know what cosmic reality is." No you don't. You are bullsh1tting.

issuevoter wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 11:32pm:

This thread is a non-starter. The assertions are ludicrous. Atheism isn't any ism. Its the absense of ism, and that's a personal perspective. A government may ban religion, but that doesn't change minds. Theists and Atheists are as stupid as each other. "Oh, I know what cosmic reality is." No you don't. You are bullsh1tting.

Well who bloody started this topic?? Also why wasn’t it transported into the Atheism sub forum?

Oh i just read back. It was Freediver.

Freediver was linking Atheism to Communist regimes (which uphold Atheism and ban religion).

So it was communism that did the killing.

issuevoter wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 11:32pm:

This thread is a non-starter. The assertions are ludicrous. Atheism isn't any ism. Its the absense of ism, and that's a personal perspective. A government may ban religion, but that doesn't change minds. Theists and Atheists are as stupid as each other. "Oh, I know what cosmic reality is." No you don't. You are bullsh1tting.

And yet, despite being an absence of an ism, Geoff and many other people want to force their own version of it on everyone else.

How does that work?

I have seen no one here trying to force atheism on anyone. Can you link to an example of forcing?

That's what we were discussing in the OP Monk.


AusGeoff wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 1:45am:

If I were "King" of the world, I'd ban all religions. Religions—all of them—have caused more deaths than WWI and WWII combined.

And it's not like Geoff is the first one to suggest this.

And after all this toing and froing here, nobody has been
able to name one single territorial war started in the
name of, or for the cause of, atheism.

Not so for religions though...

Conflicts Around the World Where Religion Plays a Role.

CCP are Atheists. Despite their 'political' personality of Communism. They are also 'anti-religious'.

freediver wrote on Oct 20^th, 2023 at 8:40am:

That's what we were discussing in the OP Monk. AusGeoff wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 1:45am: If I were "King" of the world, I'd ban all religions. Religions—all of them—have caused more deaths than WWI and WWII combined. And it's not like Geoff is the first one to suggest this.

Biggest word in the English language starts Geoff’s rant: If.

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 20^th, 2023 at 4:27pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 20th, 2023 at 8:40am: That's what we were discussing in the OP Monk. AusGeoff wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 1:45am: If I were "King" of the world, I'd ban all religions. Religions—all of them—have caused more deaths than WWI and WWII combined. And it's not like Geoff is the first one to suggest this. Biggest word in the English language starts Geoff’s rant: If.

IF is actually a very powerful word. So much hinges on those 2 letters.

If - by RUDYARD KIPLING

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream and not make dreams your master;
If you can think and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same.
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build'em up with worn-out tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings,
And never breathe a word about your loss:
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on! '

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And what is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQyKMueMFGk