thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 19^th, 2024 at 9:34am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 18th, 2024 at 3:49pm: When democracy is killed off, .... and replaced with benevolent authority in a consensus meritocracy, dedicated to shared prosperity and a modernized UNUDHR (which supercedes all -isms and 'sovereignty' bs), it will be a blessing, because  "democracy is the worst form of governement...."

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 19^th, 2024 at 9:54am:

freediver wrote on Mar 19th, 2024 at 9:44am: I'm more interested in the benevolent authority part. I'm pretty sure he means benevolent dictatorship. Probably, although I'm sure he won't respond.

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 19^th, 2024 at 9:57am:

freediver wrote on Mar 19th, 2024 at 9:27am: Quote: ie, the rational ideology of shared prosperity Is that the one that the CCP used to starve 50 million people to death by feeding them all equally? Poor FD , doesn't understand the meaning of shared prosperity. Low IQ, or ideologically blind? [quote]Is there any meat on these ideological bones, or is it just whatever the current CCP policy is?

Shared prospeity, in the age of AI and IT?

Study MMT.
[/quote]

Dropping buzzwords and acronyms is not the same as having an actual ideology. Would you care to let us know what it is?

In particular, does it differ in any meaningful way from whatever the current policy of the Chinese Communist Party is?

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 24^th, 2024 at 12:53pm:

Quote: Can you identify a form of government that works better than democracy? At last,  a sensible question. Yes, 'benevolent meritocratic authority' may work better than blind-leading-the-blind democracy. Certainly worth a try. True democrats would advise the Chinese government how to achieve good governance under that system, instead of trying to destroy it as part of an attempt to self-interestedly maintain hegemony of "the worst form of government". As it is, attacks arising from the paranoia and delusions of the current crop of 'democats'  who are ruling the "free" world only encourages insular thinking in the CCP. We will see; the statements coming out of the recent 'two sessions' conference of leading economists and politicians in Beijing sound good. If they are realized, the CCP will survive as the world's most successful political party engendering "common prosperty", while more and more 'democracies' implode under increasing inequality and decreasing social cohesion.

Can you give any examples of where benign dictatorship has actually worked better than democracy?

Are you saying you don't even know how to make it work properly?

True democrats would advise China to fully embrace democracy, and tell you that you are a fool for not learning anything from 50 million dead Chinese the first time round. If it is good enough for the CCP, why not everyone else? Don't you think it is a tad hypocritical for the CCP to benefit from internal democracy but not extend voting rights to the rest of the citizens?

One benign dictatorship which seems to have had the enduring respect of even Western democrats is that of Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew, who took Singapore from a third-world backwater into one of the world's powerhouses.

Another nation whose authoritarian rulers might also have earned similar respect is that of the UAE.

Singapore's democracy has a lot of issues, but it is a long way from a dictatorship.

freediver wrote on Mar 25^th, 2024 at 11:04am:

Singapore's democracy has a lot of issues, but it is a long way from a dictatorship.

Lee Kuan Yew is almost universally considered to have been a benign (benevolent) dictator.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 25^th, 2024 at 11:11am:

Lee Kuan Yew is almost universally considered to have been a benign (benevolent) dictator.

What makes you think that?

freediver wrote on Mar 25^th, 2024 at 8:34am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 24th, 2024 at 12:53pm: Quote: Can you identify a form of government that works better than democracy? At last,  a sensible question. Yes, 'benevolent meritocratic authority' may work better than blind-leading-the-blind democracy. Certainly worth a try. True democrats would advise the Chinese government how to achieve good governance under that system, instead of trying to destroy it as part of an attempt to self-interestedly maintain hegemony of "the worst form of government". As it is, attacks arising from the paranoia and delusions of the current crop of 'democats'  who are ruling the "free" world only encourages insular thinking in the CCP. We will see; the statements coming out of the recent 'two sessions' conference of leading economists and politicians in Beijing sound good. If they are realized, the CCP will survive as the world's most successful political party engendering "common prosperty", while more and more 'democracies' implode under increasing inequality and decreasing social cohesion.     Can you give any examples of where benign dictatorship has actually worked better than democracy? Are you saying you don't even know how to make it work properly? True democrats would advise China to fully embrace democracy, and tell you that you are a fool for not learning anything from 50 million dead Chinese the first time round. If it is good enough for the CCP, why not everyone else? Don't you think it is a tad hypocritical for the CCP to benefit from internal democracy but not extend voting rights to the rest of the citizens?

attaturk (mustafa karmel)


lee kuan yew was effectively able to run singapore as he liked (though he did face elections , often unopposed)

freediver wrote on Mar 25^th, 2024 at 11:04am:

Singapore's democracy has a lot of issues, but it is a long way from a dictatorship.

Down on the Border

Song by Little River Band


I just got back from the border
And what I saw made me know for sure
We're out of order
I had a dream about New Orleans
At Jackson Square I heard their prayer
Down in New Orleans
On the run, there's a life for livin'
But the people there, they just don't care
Livin' their life like a millionaire
Down on the border
You never see me in old Iran
The women there don't know who I am
In old Iran
And I never will go to Singapore
The people there will cut your hair
In Singapore
On their streets there's a life of plenty
Oh but they'll never know about the freedom show
Their livin' in darkness years ago down on the border
They built a wall at the border
Not to keep us out
But to leave no doubt
They're out of order, hey
And all the people who are trapped within
Serve to show just how far we'll go
And how dumb we've been
At the top life looks so easy
But they'll never know what they'll never know
They're much too busy countin' all their dough
From the border


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kghQ0LCiY30

We must remember that Australia has had a LibLab benign dictatorship since 1901. The LibLabs have set all the rules since that starting point, and they continue to do so

Who said they could spend $360 billion on submarines?, no one, they just did it. My village in the bush needs grants for basic infrastructure - we'll never get them

We need to have a conversation about immigration. We'll never get to have that conversation while ever we have a LibLab dictatorship

Democracy in Australia is an illusion. If your vote doesn't help get a candidate into Parliament, your vote loses 100% of its value, just a bit of waste paper, thrown into the trash can

That's right, we've had a LibLab dictatorship since 1901, a hundred and twenty two years

Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 25^th, 2024 at 1:13pm:

We must remember that Australia has had a LibLab benign dictatorship since 1901. The LibLabs have set all the rules since that starting point, and they continue to do so Who said they could spend $360 billion on submarines?, no one, they just did it. My village in the bush needs grants for basic infrastructure - we'll never get them We need to have a conversation about immigration. We'll never get to have that conversation while ever we have a LibLab dictatorship Democracy in Australia is an illusion. If your vote doesn't help get a candidate into Parliament, your vote loses 100% of its value, just a bit of waste paper, thrown into the trash can That's right, we've had a LibLab dictatorship since 1901, a hundred and twenty two years

You're right - when they get into power they do whatever they want.

In 1972 what did Robert Plant say about Singapore to Germaine Greer?

Jump to 3:10


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsxFBpai4Y0

Quote:

We must remember that Australia has had a LibLab benign dictatorship since 1901.

I'm talking about actual dictatorship, not people whining because everyone else votes differently to them.

aquascoot wrote on Mar 25^th, 2024 at 12:18pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 25th, 2024 at 8:34am: thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 24th, 2024 at 12:53pm: Quote: Can you identify a form of government that works better than democracy? At last,  a sensible question. Yes, 'benevolent meritocratic authority' may work better than blind-leading-the-blind democracy. Certainly worth a try. True democrats would advise the Chinese government how to achieve good governance under that system, instead of trying to destroy it as part of an attempt to self-interestedly maintain hegemony of "the worst form of government". As it is, attacks arising from the paranoia and delusions of the current crop of 'democats'  who are ruling the "free" world only encourages insular thinking in the CCP. We will see; the statements coming out of the recent 'two sessions' conference of leading economists and politicians in Beijing sound good. If they are realized, the CCP will survive as the world's most successful political party engendering "common prosperty", while more and more 'democracies' implode under increasing inequality and decreasing social cohesion.     Can you give any examples of where benign dictatorship has actually worked better than democracy? Are you saying you don't even know how to make it work properly? True democrats would advise China to fully embrace democracy, and tell you that you are a fool for not learning anything from 50 million dead Chinese the first time round. If it is good enough for the CCP, why not everyone else? Don't you think it is a tad hypocritical for the CCP to benefit from internal democracy but not extend voting rights to the rest of the citizens? attaturk (mustafa karmel) lee kuan yew was effectively able to run singapore as he liked (though he did face elections , often unopposed)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Kemal_Atat%C3%BCrk

As the president of the newly formed Turkish Republic, Atatürk initiated a rigorous program of political, economic, and cultural reforms with the ultimate aim of building a republican and secular nation-state. He made primary education free and compulsory, opening thousands of new schools all over the country. He also introduced the Latin-based Turkish alphabet, replacing the old Ottoman Turkish alphabet. Turkish women received equal civil and political rights during Atatürk's presidency.[8] In particular, women were given voting rights in local elections by Act no. 1580 on 3 April 1930 and a few years later, in 1934, full universal suffrage.

http://singaporerebel.blogspot.com/2007/02/life-in-singapores-political-prisons.html

Thursday, March 01, 2007

Life in Singapore's political prisons


Solitary confinement, beatings, electric shocks and threats to families - we're not talking about prisons in North Korea, or Abu Ghraib, but in Singapore's Whitley Road Detention Centre (same location as picture above) where such methods to extract confessions and recantations were allegedly used against political detainees during the 1970s, as documented by Amnesty International in a report published in 1980.

They learned a few things from the Nip invasion and occupation I guess?

Jasin wrote on Mar 25^th, 2024 at 4:33pm:

They learned a few things from the Nip invasion and occupation I guess?

Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew was a nasty, vicious dictator.

He caused untold human misery.

freediver wrote on Mar 25^th, 2024 at 3:19pm:

Quote: We must remember that Australia has had a LibLab benign dictatorship since 1901. I'm talking about actual dictatorship, not people whining because everyone else votes differently to them.

Well, it's a real benign dictatorship

They punish us if we fail to get our names crossed off the roll - that's dictatorial

Who cares if it be nine dictatorships or ten... the question is - 'who guards the guard while the guard robs you daily and beats you while telling you how good it is for you and for society, economy and civilisation'?

The dictatorship of the proletariat - a concept going all the way back to the end of the Roman Republic... and even into the Empire days... give 'em death and short circuits in the Anuseum and you'll soon have their balls in your pocket down at the gender clinic...

Now then - on a MORE serious note for those of you who simply cannot follow reality sent at you cloaked in  hilarity and lyricism....

NO dictatorship, no matter how benign, lasts in that guise for very long.... like any governmental (stress on the last two syllables ) apparatus, it soon becomes frustrated and deems that the only way 'forward' - in their eyes only of course, given that they suddenly realise they hold the power in the land - is to impose on the proletariat in any and every way so as to ensure that the proletariat do not ever rise above their station and actually affect the running of their own country ...

On the micro-scale, you see this clearly in 'modern' Australia, with the steady erosion of power to the people of the people and by the people (such as it was but it WAS developing), it being ambushed and slowly over-ridden by the united front of politician liberation, which incorporates not only elected government (in disguise) but also its bevy of like-minded lackeys and old school mates (etc) in the top public service positions and thus able to make, by decree, those very impositions that 'elected government' cannot make without peril at the ballot box.

FREEEEDOOOM from the will of the people, they cry ......

Look at 'Aboriginal Landovers' ... 61-39 said NO to the agenda.... now behind the people's backs an increasing number of assaults on public ownership of public land are taking place by public service department decree - not least of which is the order to permit access to national parks and such to fall into disrepair, thus keeping the majority out, and then declaring it 'unused national park' ripe for handing over to some sulking brood of flagon drinkers - and then proceeding with this travesty despite the objections of the majority.  Any approach to 'the Minister' is met with - "Oh - that's a PS responsibility, not mine."  Any approach to the department is met with - "Oh - this is in complete accord with Cabinet and full government policy - we are but the messengers (of death to your rights)".

If that ain't the REAL Neo-Fascism taking over this country - not your twenty or so masked men in black - then what is?

And if that isn't NON-benign dictatorship - but instead dictatorship of the lowest kind involving outright theft of rights and such of the majority of ordinary people .... I don't know what is.  It even has its own KristallNachts against those who are not given accredited victim status or accredited sensitivity status...  e.g. - Australia's Jewish population is doing all right .. our poor Mussos intruding groups are all sensitive....let them give the Jewish population a bit of a roasting.... get stuck into women wanting toilets and change rooms for their daughters protected... someone might be 'hurt' and 'need a safe space' if women are allowed that....

WTF is wrong with you people?  Is it the water?  Is someone slipping something into your pills prescribed for your fanciful PTSD at the drop of a hat - the dread Placebo?  Is it the female hormones in beef etc infecting the minds of young kids and sending them to the butcher's shops in a lemming wave of intoxication with Testicle Of Youth...an entire generation sent to the slaughter?

If it is not the water - why then are different states, different towns, different cities, suffering from such a wide range of delusional behaviour - and all different?  Thank Dog for tank water.....

Keep ignoring it at your peril.

Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 25^th, 2024 at 5:49pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 25th, 2024 at 3:19pm: Quote: We must remember that Australia has had a LibLab benign dictatorship since 1901. I'm talking about actual dictatorship, not people whining because everyone else votes differently to them. Well, it's a real benign dictatorship They punish us if we fail to get our names crossed off the roll - that's dictatorial

We live in a dictatorship because we have compulsory voting?

freediver,

A benign dictatorship is benign.      [.......it would be directed, by benign persons.]

What could possibly go wrong ?
/sarc off

benign = = kindly


e.g.
Venezuela's Maduro, is a benign dictator.    .....isn't he ?

And Russia's Putin too.       Publicly, they all claim to be 'building a better world'
....for all those who obey, and love, and trust them.

And Mugabe [deceased] too, what a deliverer of 'healing' for the Zimbabwean nation, he promised to be.
[......in the end, it is claimed that as their 'reward', he chose to feed many of his critics/opponents to local river crocodiles.]


Benign or not, after a taste of power,   ....don't/wouldn't 'benign' dictators [even those with the best of intentions] always morph into their worst 'type' ?


.


KJV
Habakkuk 1:1
The burden which Habakkuk the prophet did see.
2  O LORD, how long shall I cry, and thou wilt not hear! even cry out unto thee of violence, and thou wilt not save!
3  Why dost thou shew me iniquity, and cause me to behold grievance? for spoiling and violence are before me: and there are that raise up strife and contention.
4  Therefore the law is slacked, and judgment doth never go forth: for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore wrong judgment proceedeth.



QUESTION;
Can men, 'save themselves',   .....from their own nature [.....to desire to do, what they know, is not correct] ?

We could choose a better path.

'Seek and ye shall find.'

thegreatdivide wrote on May 2^nd, 2024 at 11:49am:

I'm more interested in Churchill's famous dictum (inadequate  though it is...democracy might be bested by benevolent authority).

Is this something Churchill said?

Dear FD,
did you read my comments about Lee Kuan Yew?

Any comment?

freediver wrote on May 10^th, 2024 at 1:53pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 2nd, 2024 at 11:49am: I'm more interested in Churchill's famous dictum (inadequate  though it is...democracy might be bested by benevolent authority).    Is this something Churchill said?

No, it isn't.

The Small Parrot is an atavistic throwback to enlightened despotism of the 18th century, without the enlightenment.
Despotism with Chinese Characteristics.

Arrrrr ... Diktat of the Proletariat sounds better than these artificial 'leaders' ...

Let My People GO, Albo!

TGD, would you describe the CCP as benign?