thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 10:10am:

freediver wrote on Mar 21st, 2024 at 9:32am: thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 21st, 2024 at 9:29am: freediver wrote on Mar 21st, 2024 at 7:55am: Quote: Those may be 'ideals' for human societies to aim for, but they certainly have never been established foundations, in reality, for more that a few nano-seconds. They have been established foundations for as long as civilisation as we have come to know it has been established. So....how come the most characteristic, persistent human behaviour has been continuous warfare? When was the last war that was fought with both sides of the conflict being liberal democracies? Never, because the "liberal democracies" have all signed up to US military hegemony.

If war is a continuous and persistent human characteristic, why were the voters in the various liberal democracies all so eager to abandon it?

And why do all militaries have to spend so much effort training people to overcome their natural instincts?

Why were Britain and then US the world-policeman? Why do they jump into any wars they can with Oz right behind them?

Quote:

Why were Britain and then US the world-policeman?

No idea. TGD keeps insisting that America intervene in Israel. He hasn't explained why this burden should fall on the US. He seems to think it should just magically happen once the UN gets the paperwork in order.

chimera wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 1:00pm:

Why were Britain and then US the world-policeman? Why do they jump into any wars they can with Oz right behind them?

Because Politics/Law is the 'British' way of life.
It's their 'cultural' priority above all else.
The 'United Kingdom's' Royalty though, kinda sticks to Master of Ceremony stuff, Entertainment like marching band Tattoos and Eurovision, etc.

Britain, unlike any other nation is paying the ultimate sacrifice (as does its people) to bring the 'Truth' to the world via Politics/Law.

USA might think it's the 'Sheriff' of the World, but while the Media (of Entertainment) corrupts its Politics, its really not following the British rule of thumb.

Why Britain and not say, the Aborigines? Well the Aborigines have made all things 'the Land' as its cultural priority. Politics & Law are way down on the ladder for them.

Everyone thinks they're good at 'everything', but they're not.
Asia is good at one thing, but not another.

No other nation, though Germany thought it was the best at Politics than Great Britain - but failed.
France still thinks it's superior than GB, but it too will soon fail.
As will the former Roman Empire, Italy - via its MAFIA, but it will fail because the world will not accept the Political Truth of the Mafia (obviously).

Every Region has its cultural destiny and so far, until such time it finally fails in Europe and moves 'into the West' (to reclaim USA in its entirety) - Britain is the one 'true' GIFT of Politics/Law to the world.

...this is why Australia should be staying Politically focused on Britain, rather than the USA (Media of Entertainment Politics).

Come now. What is Africa's 'Gift' to the world as the cultural leader? And what African nation 'specifically' makes this a priority over all else?

freediver wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 10:27am:

If war is a continuous and persistent human characteristic, why were the voters in the various liberal democracies all so eager to abandon it?

And also not eager to abandon it.

chimera wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 2:13pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 21st, 2024 at 10:27am: If war is a continuous and persistent human characteristic, why were the voters in the various liberal democracies all so eager to abandon it? And also not eager to abandon it.

When was the last war that was fought with both sides of the conflict being liberal democracies?

Suez 1956.   winner-US.
France: New Zealand 1985.   winner- France.
US : Chile 1973.  winner- US.
UK: Oireland forever and a day, to be sure. no winners.
US Defense Budjet $1.282 trillyun, Liberal party dollers.
winner- freeeeedom and demarcrassee.

chimera wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 3:15pm:

Suez 1956.   winner-US. France: New Zealand 1985.   winner- France. US : Chile 1973.  winner- US. UK: Oireland forever and a day, to be sure. no winners. US Defense Budjet $1.282 trillyun, Liberal party dollers. winner- freeeeedom and demarcrassee.

Are you saying they were all wars?

'war: a state of armed conflict between different countries or different groups within a country'.
UK lost 22 in Suez war, defeated by US economic-war threat. US bribed Nasser with $3mill to be an ally. The British Empire then ended as a major power and became an aircraft carrier off the coast of France.

And the war between France and NZ?

chimera wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 4:24pm:

'war: a state of armed conflict between different countries or different groups within a country'. UK lost 22 in Suez war, defeated by US economic-war threat. US bribed Nasser with $3mill to be an ally. The British Empire then ended as a major power and became an aircraft carrier off the coast of France.

The last armed conflict between the US and UK was in 1812. Neither was a Liberal democracy.
There was no war between the US and UK/France/Israel in 1956.

There was no war between France and NZ in the 80s either.

freediver wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 4:27pm:

And the war between France and NZ?

Conflict is not necessarily war and you did ask for conflicts, not wars.
Opération Satanique

Setanta wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 5:04pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 21st, 2024 at 4:27pm: And the war between France and NZ? Conflict is not necessarily war and you did ask for conflicts, not wars. Opération Satanique

Whoops.

Sounds like the exception that proves the rule.

'It caused the resignation of the French Defence Minister Charles Hernu, while the two agents pleaded guilty to manslaughter and were sentenced to ten years in prison. France was also forced to apologise and had to pay reparations to New Zealand'.

Pacific islands don't fight each other, Muslim states rarely do, or African dictatorships or Sth American banana boys. Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan were minding their own business when the Yanks gate crashed the joint. The big killers are the Europeans, the poms did fire-bombing of civilian cities and yanks did the nukes, praise the lord.

chimera wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 5:44pm:

'It caused the resignation of the French Defence Minister Charles Hernu, while the two agents pleaded guilty to manslaughter and were sentenced to ten years in prison. France was also forced to apologise and had to pay reparations to New Zealand'. Pacific islands don't fight each other, Muslim states rarely do, or African dictatorships or Sth American banana boys. Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan were minding their own business when the Yanks gate crashed the joint. The big killers are the Europeans, the poms did fire-bombing of civilian cities and yanks did the nukes, praise the lord.

:D :D :D

Iran Iraq war.

Iraq Kuwait war.

Muslims murdering each other all over the place.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_battles_involving_the_Islamic_State

Setanta wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 5:04pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 21st, 2024 at 4:27pm: And the war between France and NZ? Conflict is not necessarily war and you did ask for conflicts, not wars. Opération Satanique

;D Come on Set

the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior(which wasn't NZ vessel) in NZ is not a France vs NZ conflict/war.

chimera wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 5:44pm:

'It caused the resignation of the French Defence Minister Charles Hernu, while the two agents pleaded guilty to manslaughter and were sentenced to ten years in prison. France was also forced to apologise and had to pay reparations to New Zealand'. Pacific islands don't fight each other, Muslim states rarely do, or African dictatorships or Sth American banana boys. Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan were minding their own business when the Yanks gate crashed the joint. The big killers are the Europeans, the poms did fire-bombing of civilian cities and yanks did the nukes, praise the lord.

You're delusional .... Iraq & Iran had bee bluing for decades. Iraq invaded Kuwait. The Saudis have been at loggerheads with Yemen.

As for Libya & Afghanistan ...  ;D you wanker

Muammar Gaddafi ring any bells? Another sponsor of global terrorism.

As for Afghanistan .... why were the Soviets there for a decade prior to their withdrawal in 1989?

::)

Frank wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 6:28pm:

Iran Iraq war. Iraq Kuwait war.

Iran Iraq=US Gulf War 2
Iraq Kuwait=US Gulf War 1.
The US has been at it ever since in much of the Islamic world.
Stuff happens but liberal democracy as the Innocent Ones is no go.

Gnads wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 6:29pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 21st, 2024 at 5:04pm: freediver wrote on Mar 21st, 2024 at 4:27pm: And the war between France and NZ? Conflict is not necessarily war and you did ask for conflicts, not wars. Opération Satanique ;D Come on Set the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior(which wasn't NZ vessel) in NZ is not a France vs NZ conflict/war.

If you saw my following post I crossed out some of what I said. Conflict, yes. War, no. If China sunk a US or really any nations ship in our harbour that they had an ideological bent against, we would take it personally and rightly so. They attacked and killed on NZ soil. Not sure the nationality of the dead, if you know, post. Would it make a diff if the deceased was a NZ citizen?

Gnads wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 6:29pm:

the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior(which wasn't NZ vessel) in NZ is not a France vs NZ conflict/war.

Then it was just liberal democracy? Vive la France! Vive la difference!

Setanta wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 6:41pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 21st, 2024 at 6:29pm: Setanta wrote on Mar 21st, 2024 at 5:04pm: freediver wrote on Mar 21st, 2024 at 4:27pm: And the war between France and NZ? Conflict is not necessarily war and you did ask for conflicts, not wars. Opération Satanique ;D Come on Set the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior(which wasn't NZ vessel) in NZ is not a France vs NZ conflict/war. If you saw my following post I crossed out some of what I said. Conflict, yes. War, no. If China sunk a US or really any nations ship in our harbour that they had an ideological bent against, we would take it personally and rightly so. They attacked and killed on NZ soil. Not sure the nationality of the dead, if you know, post. Would it make a diff if the deceased was a NZ citizen?

Maybe

One person died  - Fernando Pereira (10 May 1950 – 10 July 1985) was a Portuguese-Dutch freelance photographer, who drowned when French intelligence (DGSE) detonated a bomb and sank the Rainbow Warrior, owned by the environmental organisation Greenpeace on 10 July 1985.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
"democratic peace"
The Warsaw Pact had 3 conflicts. In the west, some Irish people
supported the IRA fight against UK, and democratic Cyprus and Yugoslavia had conflicts. US, surprise, bombed Serbia.
Hitler was elected, Stalin wasn't but Adolf did bad.

chimera wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 6:43pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 21st, 2024 at 6:29pm: the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior(which wasn't NZ vessel) in NZ is not a France vs NZ conflict/war. Then it was just liberal democracy? Vive la France! Vive la difference!

It wasn't a war chimera. It was just another demonstration of the reluctance of democracies to go to war against each other, and the many ways democracy offers to resolve this sort of thing without war.

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28^th, 2024 at 4:21pm:

Frank proved incapable of joining the dots between the causes of war and men's ego/id-affected thinking (in Freudian terms).

Would you care to join the dots for us?

freediver wrote on Mar 28^th, 2024 at 4:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28th, 2024 at 4:21pm: Frank proved incapable of joining the dots between the causes of war and men's ego/id-affected thinking (in Freudian terms).  Would you care to join the dots for us?

Hallo? Mista Perroquet?!  Hallo?!

Frank wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2024 at 8:19pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 28th, 2024 at 4:25pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28th, 2024 at 4:21pm: Frank proved incapable of joining the dots between the causes of war and men's ego/id-affected thinking (in Freudian terms).  Would you care to join the dots for us? Hallo? Mista Perroquet?!  Hallo?!

I think we will all fail to join the dots that only TGD can see.

Well the Republicans/Trump seemed to use Politics to make Peace.
As for Biden/Democrats - their Politics has thrown peace out the window.  ::)

freediver wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2024 at 7:04am:

democracy offers to resolve this sort of thing without war.

Then the Warsaw Pact countries kept bombing and shooting each other?

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2024 at 8:26pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 2nd, 2024 at 8:19pm: freediver wrote on Mar 28th, 2024 at 4:25pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28th, 2024 at 4:21pm: Frank proved incapable of joining the dots between the causes of war and men's ego/id-affected thinking (in Freudian terms).  Would you care to join the dots for us? Hallo? Mista Perroquet?!  Hallo?! I think we will all fail to join the dots that only TGD can see.

Individual dots are lizard brain delusions of individuality. There are no dots, there is only a glorious line. Tsk, tsk  ::) ::)

chimera wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 1:00pm:

Why were Britain and then US the world-policeman? Why do they jump into any wars they can with Oz right behind them?

Would you have preferred the Russians or China to be the "worlds policemen"????

My comment is in the setting of 'democracies are peaceful'. The US had a War Department, like the UK. Not 'Defence' - 'war'.

chimera wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2024 at 10:03am:

My comment is in the setting of 'democracies are peaceful'. The US had a War Department, like the UK. Not 'Defence' - 'war'.

So what?

chimera wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 5:44pm:

'It caused the resignation of the French Defence Minister Charles Hernu, while the two agents pleaded guilty to manslaughter and were sentenced to ten years in prison. France was also forced to apologise and had to pay reparations to New Zealand'. Pacific islands don't fight each other, Muslim states rarely do, or African dictatorships or Sth American banana boys. Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan were minding their own business when the Yanks gate crashed the joint. The big killers are the Europeans, the poms did fire-bombing of civilian cities and yanks did the nukes, praise the lord.

You're a fricking joke.

Iran vs Iraq
Iraq vs Kuwait
Iraq vs Khurds
Houthis vs Yemini Govt
::)

To be fair, the Muslims are generally pre-occupied with killing their fellow citizens in large numbers. But on those occasions when they can get their poo together, they like to kill foreign Muslims on a much larger scale. They also dream of killing non-Muslim men and riding off on the women, and have done so on a massive scale in the past, but are generally impotent to do that today.

Muh DeMoCrAcY

---

Gnads wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2024 at 2:02pm:

Iran vs Iraq Iraq vs Kuwait Iraq vs Khurds Houthis vs Yemini Govt

= 4.
Between 1945-2024, the US has initiated 204 wars.

freediver wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2024 at 10:04am:

So what?

oh nothing really. Usually, a 'war' is not 'peace'. It can be, but, in the phony war 1939 when poms wandered around looking for nazis in France. The War Department wanted peace.
So it fought  a peaceful war against the elected leader of Egypt in 1956. The elected Israelis voted for war-peace in Suez.

chimera wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2024 at 2:17pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 3rd, 2024 at 10:04am: So what? oh nothing really. Usually, a 'war' is not 'peace'. It can be, but, in the phony war 1939 when poms wandered around looking for nazis in France. The War Department wanted peace. So it fought  a peaceful war against the elected leader of Egypt in 1956. The elected Israelis voted for war-peace in Suez.

You realise that no-one is claiming that democracies never go to war, right?

Is this just an elaborate, idiotic strawman?

freediver wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 10:27am:

When was the last war that was fought with both sides of the conflict being liberal democracies?

Q & A.

Have you decided to go from idiotic strawman to gibberish?

Q&A means 'question and answer'.
You raised the question.
My gibberish is the answer.
democratic
/ˌdɛməˈkratɪk/
adjective
1. relating to or supporting democracy or its principles.
"democratic countries".
peace
/piːs/

1."he just wanted to drink a few beers in peace" /piːs/ on the peace.

Quote:

My gibberish is the answer.

Ah.

'There's NO democracy'

Aspirations of leaders in the WEST are NO different to the EAST:

Neil Oliver


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B7jQBFEU4k


We hear a lot about the matching butt cheeks
that are our political parties
And how left and right are meaningless terms
but you couldn’t get a cigarette paper
between the mainstream political parties
on account of them having merged into one anti-human blob
serving not us but the big corporations and unelected NGOs
that are their paymasters.
Well, it turns out the butt in question the big fat bottom
that is the authorities is growing bigger every moment
swelling to absorb even more.
By now East and West once confidently used as a shorthand
for the differences between totalitarianism and freedom
appear to be two more big flabby cheeks of the same backside.

freediver wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2024 at 3:53pm:

Ah.

chimera wrote on Mar 21^st, 2024 at 1:00pm:

Why were Britain and then US the world-policeman? Why do they jump into any wars they can with Oz right behind them?

Well the USA thinks its the Sheriff (and Australia its dumb side-kick Deputy) - but its not really.
Besides just being a selfish self-centred nation that would prefer to politically weaken every other nation, even GB and OZ, to prop up its lack of integrity.
It's mostly a bunch of Actors, Musicians, Celebrities and Chefs trying to act like a Sheriff nation.

The only true 'Political' nation is Great Britain (not the United Kingdom which is mostly interested in Royal pageants and Eurovision) - which prevailed against Germany's failure to be the 'prime' Euro nation with things of Politics, Military and Religion.
Soon France will fail too and then finally Italy. Though Italy will best the UK at Eurovision and making better movies along with a superior Royal Family of Celebrities.

The USA will only become the Prime Political nation of the world, when it accepts the fact that Great Britain, when it comes to Politics - was right all along and they shouldn't have thrown that 'holy grail' away long ago.
...why do you think Australia holds onto the Union Jack for so long? Because it represents the only true form of Political 'truth'.
Of course, not every Region (x8 in the world) has Politics as an Alpha characteristic. Politics is losing its power in Europe to the Lefty industries for starters. Europe, Asia, Africa and Oceania will become the Beta Political (best run by women) regions with Middle-East, N.America, S.America and Sahul (here) being the Alpha-political regions (best run by men).

This explains why Britain succeeds in ways, even by default in N.America - in the regions of the Mid-East, Sahul and S.America... but has failed like a villian in Asia, Africa and Oceania (via Men).

In time, after GB has prevailed against Germany, France and Italy - it will finally be cast out of Europe as a 'political' nation by a united Islam/Israel (Istari) like a crucifixion and to be reborn in again (Born again) 'Amerika!'  :D

You can't stop this. This is inevitable. This is that way of the world. The future is more predictable than you think. Only the idiots think otherwise and that's why many die on their wild goose chases... like trying to turn the entire Northern Hemisphere 'all white' like some Yin/Yang planet.
As General Macarthur said in Korea "We are here to kick out the Yellow Mongol from Asia." (with USSR)
...er, yeah right America.  ::)

The US is about 12% British and it wins 1/8 of its wars and rocket launches. The British Party (no Windsors may apply) will dominate the election machinery and vote counting high-tech, with an accent on toffee and high tea with cream. and lemon. Harry's vote is private and on video as the Red Haired King of Pops. South America will be a naval base like Gibraltar and the wreckage of the Armada and may become New South Britain.