No one wants to see a wider war develop from the current conflict in Ukraine involving only them and Russia. Yes, many Western countries (Australia included) are supporting Ukraine indirectly in the conflict, as is China, North Korea and Iran for Russia. But I keep coming back to that famous quote - all that is required for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing. Now, I'm not saying providing munitions and other military equipment, or training Ukrainian forces is "nothing". But I think this war would've been over by now, Ukrainian territory returned to them and many innocent lives saved had Western nations put boots on the ground and helped defend Ukraine from the outset.

Yes, I know all about Russian threats to use nuclear weapons. They've made these threats many, many times and have not followed through. But really, even the murderous despot Putin knows better than to make a nuclear strike (even a relatively small strike with tactical nuclear weapons) on Ukraine because all bets would be off then and the Western nations would pour into Ukraine and obliterate and/or scare off invading Russian forces. Putin needed to see at the beginning that he could not just go about invading sovereign nations at will. He needed to see that the price for doing so would be too terrible to contemplate. I fear this war and inaction by Western countries has only emboldened his ambitions and that Ukraine's neighbours could soon be in Putin's crosshairs.

Welcome back Armchair_Politician. Long time no see.

Russia will just get it's slice of the cake, just like it got what it wanted (via USSR) from Finland in the Winter War back younder.
It never wanted 'all' of Ukraine, it just wanted to make the parts that were 'colonised' by Russians as part of Russia via the citizens being Russian as its excuse. It looks like Ukraine will eventually have to concede such territory, just like Finland did. It's what Russia wanted in the first place and it looks like 'Russia Wins' again.

As for Russia long term.
Well, its pretty obvious that Russia will soon be between a Rock (Europe) and a hard place (China) as China has also pumped 700,000 people into Russian lands and many in 'military' uniform. It has also 'taken' Russian lands in the east formally. China is keep its Russian (enemy) close until its ready to do to Russia what the USSR did to it. Putin knows he can't do a thing about China chipping away at it and China knows it is in a position to take the resource rich Siberia off Russia and return it back to the 'Yellow Man'.

When China attacks Russia (which is a better bet than attacking USA directly) - you can basically say its the end of Russia the Great once and for all. Australia will replace Russia - on the Global Power front. Of course, Russia will then ask for USA help - but the USA will be in economic doldrums by then and unable to.
...until North Korea spoils China's efforts and attacks the USA - thus bringing the USA into the conflict and getting a slap to the back of the head by China for being so stupid.

So many World Wars to have, so many changes to be made.

North America replaces Western Europe
Australia replaces Eastern Europe
Oceania replaces Southern Europe

Such is 'life'... and death.  ;)

Why isn't anybody agitating for negotiations? Not Ukraine, not Russia, not NATO.

I dont know what Russia wants, nor what Ukraine, the US, France , NATO.  What IS this about? I can't imagine that one side is completely right and the other completely wrong.

It can't be that there is nothing to negotiate.

Frank wrote on Jun 11^th, 2024 at 5:18pm:

I can't imagine that one side is completely right and the other completely wrong.

That comes as no surprise whatsoever.

More than two years after he launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Russian President Vladimir Putin continues to insist that all his goals will be achieved. He has not, however, spelled them out in great detail, leaving himself considerable wiggle room to declare victory depending on battlefield developments. Broadly speaking, his goals fall into three baskets: weakening or disrupting Ukraine’s ties with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), stymieing Ukrainian nationalism, and expanding territorial gains.


https://www.cfr.org/expert-brief/what-does-putin-really-want-ukraine


Ukraine is what Serbia was in 1914 and the 1990s.

Frank wrote on Jun 12^th, 2024 at 11:32am:

More than two years after he launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Russian President Vladimir Putin continues to insist that all his goals will be achieved. He has not, however, spelled them out in great detail, leaving himself considerable wiggle room to declare victory depending on battlefield developments. Broadly speaking, his goals fall into three baskets: weakening or disrupting Ukraine’s ties with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), stymieing Ukrainian nationalism, and expanding territorial gains. https://www.cfr.org/expert-brief/what-does-putin-really-want-ukraine Ukraine is what Serbia was in 1914 and the 1990s.

Authorities Warn Of Con Artist Scamming Dementia Patients Out Of Billions Of Dollars

https://media.babylonbee.com/articles/666c7023e169c666c7023e169d.jpg

U.S. — Authorities are warning that a con artist is currently on the loose and scamming elderly dementia patients out of billions of dollars. They are urging anyone who sees the suspect to call law enforcement immediately.

"He's very short, dresses in all green for some reason, and has an accent like some kind of Eastern European henchman from a Guy Ritchie movie," said a spokesperson for law enforcement. "Scumbags like this are always preying on confused, senile people who don't know better. People like this make me sick."

Sources confirmed his most recent scam convinced a very old and disoriented man to sign a 10-year, bilateral security agreement for billions of dollars. Authorities suspect the money will be used to fund illegal activities around the globe, including drug trafficking, arms deals, and expensive cars for some guy named "Volodymyr."

"Yeah, once these jerks get their hands on the life savings of the victims, it gets laundered and immediately used to fund criminal enterprises," the spokesperson said. "If I could only get my hands on this sicko before he steals from someone else..."

At publishing time, the suspect had been spotted in Europe scamming several gullible world leaders.

no one thinks intervening would have been a good idea if it was even logistically possible (doubt) at the time anyway

jesus some of you are so stupid that you think that was ever a possibility

Putin does. 'Europeans are going to expand into Ukraine—whether as EU members or NATO—that’s basically NATO’s invading Russia.'

Welcome to the forever wars sponsored by Uncle Sam.

Uncle Sam made a huge mistake in fomenting this conflict.

Uncle Sam thought that Ukraine could seriously weaken Russia but it has proved not to be so.

Russia has withheld its most powerful weapons so far because it doesn't need them to defeat Ukraine.

Uncle Sam thought that a widened Ukraine conflict would mirror the Donbas fighting. However, this has proved not to be the case with Ukraine's shortage of manpower and munitions.

Uncle Sam's new plan to introduce F-16s is too little too late and probably wouldn't have been effective in the age of anti-aircraft missiles.

chimera wrote on Jun 15^th, 2024 at 12:16pm:

Putin does. 'Europeans are going to expand into Ukraine—whether as EU members or NATO—that’s basically NATO’s invading Russia.'

ok

Frank wrote on Jun 15^th, 2024 at 11:32am:

Frank wrote on Jun 12th, 2024 at 11:32am: More than two years after he launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Russian President Vladimir Putin continues to insist that all his goals will be achieved. He has not, however, spelled them out in great detail, leaving himself considerable wiggle room to declare victory depending on battlefield developments. Broadly speaking, his goals fall into three baskets: weakening or disrupting Ukraine’s ties with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), stymieing Ukrainian nationalism, and expanding territorial gains. https://www.cfr.org/expert-brief/what-does-putin-really-want-ukraine Ukraine is what Serbia was in 1914 and the 1990s. Authorities Warn Of Con Artist Scamming Dementia Patients Out Of Billions Of Dollars https://media.babylonbee.com/articles/666c7023e169c666c7023e169d.jpg U.S. — Authorities are warning that a con artist is currently on the loose and scamming elderly dementia patients out of billions of dollars. They are urging anyone who sees the suspect to call law enforcement immediately. "He's very short, dresses in all green for some reason, and has an accent like some kind of Eastern European henchman from a Guy Ritchie movie," said a spokesperson for law enforcement. "Scumbags like this are always preying on confused, senile people who don't know better. People like this make me sick." Sources confirmed his most recent scam convinced a very old and disoriented man to sign a 10-year, bilateral security agreement for billions of dollars. Authorities suspect the money will be used to fund illegal activities around the globe, including drug trafficking, arms deals, and expensive cars for some guy named "Volodymyr." "Yeah, once these jerks get their hands on the life savings of the victims, it gets laundered and immediately used to fund criminal enterprises," the spokesperson said. "If I could only get my hands on this sicko before he steals from someone else..." At publishing time, the suspect had been spotted in Europe scamming several gullible world leaders.

The 81-year-old demented scammer has a lot of dupes, supporters, and disciples on Ozpolitic.

chimera wrote on Jun 15^th, 2024 at 12:16pm:

Putin does. 'Europeans are going to expand into Ukraine—whether as EU members or NATO—that’s basically NATO’s invading Russia.'

Ironically, Putin has brought about the very thing he thought invading Ukraine would prevent - the expansion of NATO. 
As for the points made by the OP, a firmer stance from the West in the beginning would have been useful, along with military aid, however direct military involvement would have been a step too far and would have given Putin propaganda fodder about NATO 'aggression'.

As it stands now, if Putin attempts to expand the war into other parts of Europe or threatens Ukraine trade then direct military action should be taken.

Distressing video from Scott Ritter:

15th June 2024.

Scott Ritter Warns:
Nato IS MOBILIZING Hundreds Of Thousands Of Troops! Great War Will BREAK OUT?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEVBlcMwsQw

NATO is weaker than the IDF and they will mostly surrender at the first opportunity.

NATO is a bunch of weak stooges led by a doddering old man.

The Germans won't be able to get through the Maginot Line.
The Allies won't be able to get through the Atlantic Wall.
The Vietcong won't be able to survive the B52 bombing.
The Taliban won't....