Disorder, disunity, and chaos are emerging from the chaos, destruction, and death imposed on the world by the USA.

There did not have to be a Ukraine war.

There did not have to be a genocide in Gaza and the West Bank.

The USA has lost the trust of its partners and the consequences could be catastrophic.

The rebuilding of bombed-out countries will burden the world economy for years.

The rebuilding of bombed-out morals and ethics may never happen.

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/05/09/the-liberal-international-order-is-slowly-coming-apart


Quote:

The liberal international order is slowly coming apart Its collapse could be sudden and irreversible May 11th 2024 At first glance, the world economy looks reassuringly resilient. America has boomed even as its trade war with China has escalated. Germany has withstood the loss of Russian gas supplies without suffering an economic disaster. War in the Middle East has brought no oil shock. Missile-firing Houthi rebels have barely touched the global flow of goods. As a share of global gdp, trade has bounced back from the pandemic and is forecast to grow healthily this year. Look deeper, though, and you see fragility. For years the order that has governed the global economy since the second world war has been eroded. Today it is close to collapse. A worrying number of triggers could set off a descent into anarchy, where might is right and war is once again the resort of great powers. Even if it never comes to conflict, the effect on the economy of a breakdown in norms could be fast and brutal. ... ... The institutions that safeguarded the old system are either already defunct or fast losing credibility. The World Trade Organisation turns 30 next year, but will have spent more than five years in stasis, owing to American neglect. The imf is gripped by an identity crisis, caught between a green agenda and ensuring financial stability. The un security council is paralysed. And, as we report, supranational courts like the International Court of Justice are increasingly weaponised by warring parties. The decline of the system threatens to slow that progress, or even throw it into reverse. Once broken, it is unlikely to be replaced by new rules. Instead, world affairs will descend into their natural state of anarchy that favours banditry and violence. Without trust and an institutional framework for co-operation, it will become harder for countries to deal with the 21st century’s challenges, from containing an arms race in artificial intelligence to collaborating in space. Problems will be tackled by clubs of like-minded countries. That can work, but will more often involve coercion and resentment. ...

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jul 15^th, 2024 at 1:58pm:

Disorder, disunity, and chaos are emerging from the chaos, destruction, and death imposed on the world by the USA. There did not have to be a Ukraine war. There did not have to be a genocide in Gaza and the West Bank. The USA has lost the trust of its partners and the consequences could be catastrophic. The rebuilding of bombed-out countries will burden the world economy for years. The rebuilding of bombed-out morals and ethics may never happen. https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/05/09/the-liberal-international-order-is-slowly-coming-apart Quote: The liberal international order is slowly coming apart Its collapse could be sudden and irreversible May 11th 2024 At first glance, the world economy looks reassuringly resilient. America has boomed even as its trade war with China has escalated. Germany has withstood the loss of Russian gas supplies without suffering an economic disaster. War in the Middle East has brought no oil shock. Missile-firing Houthi rebels have barely touched the global flow of goods. As a share of global gdp, trade has bounced back from the pandemic and is forecast to grow healthily this year. Look deeper, though, and you see fragility. For years the order that has governed the global economy since the second world war has been eroded. Today it is close to collapse. A worrying number of triggers could set off a descent into anarchy, where might is right and war is once again the resort of great powers. Even if it never comes to conflict, the effect on the economy of a breakdown in norms could be fast and brutal. ... ... The institutions that safeguarded the old system are either already defunct or fast losing credibility. The World Trade Organisation turns 30 next year, but will have spent more than five years in stasis, owing to American neglect. The imf is gripped by an identity crisis, caught between a green agenda and ensuring financial stability. The un security council is paralysed. And, as we report, supranational courts like the International Court of Justice are increasingly weaponised by warring parties. The decline of the system threatens to slow that progress, or even throw it into reverse. Once broken, it is unlikely to be replaced by new rules. Instead, world affairs will descend into their natural state of anarchy that favours banditry and violence. Without trust and an institutional framework for co-operation, it will become harder for countries to deal with the 21st century’s challenges, from containing an arms race in artificial intelligence to collaborating in space. Problems will be tackled by clubs of like-minded countries. That can work, but will more often involve coercion and resentment. ...

Excellent post.

And our poor, deluded "freedon values" FD thinks the CCP is to blame.

US dictators in the Kremlin and Hamas have blood on their hands. American bombers have spent 10 years destroying Russian Crimea and President Biden of Beijing is launching naval attacks on Chinese Philippines.  The CIA is forcing slave soldiers to shoot Han defenders of communist India.

chimera wrote on Jul 15^th, 2024 at 7:11pm:

US dictators in the Kremlin and Hamas have blood on their hands. American bombers have spent 10 years destroying Russian Crimea and President Biden of Beijing is launching naval attacks on Chinese Philippines.  The CIA is forcing slave soldiers to shoot Han defenders of communist India.

The glue holding Chimera together has disintegrated and spilled his morals and ethics on the ground.

Fancy language you're using there. What's morals and ethics?
Do you mean monorail and ethnic?

USA politics become reminiscent of Roman Republic politics in 2nd and 1st centuries bc, which is not surprised as US political structure has many elements of Roman Republic model so logic of their evolution is similar.
After the death of the Gracchus brothers, violence was used as a political weapon in Roman politics and US is going the same way.
International order based on Pax Americana is coming apart as the logical result of of US republic deterioration.

The USA supports and is complicit in massive brutal violence internationally which is streamed live in US homes.

It is sending a message to the public that the US statements about opposing violence are bullsh*t.

The US is not just a supporter of violence, it foments violence and coups and commits acts of violence internationally.

The US has lost all credibility in the pursuit of peace at all levels of humanity.

Roman Caesars invaded the Kremlin and Tien An Mien in Beijing, shot the candidates and posted pics in the Forum. Biden is 2000 years old and is slowly coming apart.

Because...

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSYs7wSdx/

chimera wrote on Jul 16^th, 2024 at 9:57am:

Roman Caesars invaded the Kremlin ...

where pantsless Romans lost their balls to general Frost.
https://helios-i.mashable.com/imagery/articles/03RfSpzqGFwmcN4Txqkl67Q/images-1.fill.size_2000x1487.v1611683155.jpg

chimera wrote on Jul 16^th, 2024 at 9:57am:

Roman Caesars invaded the Kremlin and Tien An Mien in Beijing, shot the candidates and posted pics in the Forum. Biden is 2000 years old and is slowly coming apart.

Chimera was born yesterday and will never be weaned off dogma and propaganda.

We've moved on from morals and ethics to dogma and propaganda.  And back in a circle to Red Square and Pentagon.

chimera wrote on Jul 16^th, 2024 at 1:54pm:

We've moved on from morals and ethics to dogma and propaganda.  And back in a circle to Red Square and Pentagon.

To hide the fomenting and financing of death and destruction.

There was no need for the Ukraine war which the USA fomented, financed, and compelled EU financing.

There is no need for the Gaza war, mass murder, and genocide which the US is allowing and financing.

---

chimera wrote on Jul 16^th, 2024 at 6:19am:

Fancy language you're using there. What's morals and ethics? Do you mean monorail and ethnic?

No: morality, justice and fairness for all, not your hideous neanderthal  "freedom or death" ideology which is concerned with only your own sorry, self-interested a*se.   

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jul 16^th, 2024 at 2:02pm:

There is no need for the Gaza war, .

Wrong. The US funded Hamas and has a war control room at  مقابل تاج مول, الرمال شارع الثورة, Gaza. If Biden says 'jump' then Hamas obeys or loses its ammo supply.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 16^th, 2024 at 2:03pm:

morality, justice and fairness for all

Putin's farm in Ukraine is free for all Russians who have words for moarliyt moerliy omaraliyt
morlaityy maloriet mmmmorrlayt
mo

chimera wrote on Jul 16^th, 2024 at 2:27pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jul 16th, 2024 at 2:02pm: There is no need for the Gaza war, . Wrong. The US funded Hamas...

Wrong, Hamas was a creation of the failure of the Camp David talks to implement UN res 242. 
Even Clinton complained the Israelis kept "changing the goal posts" , eg they would never agree to separate sovereignty of East and West Jerusalem.

Netanyahu might be digging a very big hole for himself: 3/4 of th UN has already recognised a Palestinian state.

(otoh, Net might be hoping for a Trump victory, and elimination of the Palestinian state proposal).

https://onegirlstudio.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/elizabeth-gilbert-merely-a-rocket.jpg

Same with "International order".

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 16^th, 2024 at 3:09pm:

Wrong, Hamas was a creation.

Wrong, Hamas is a front for Netanyahu from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Iran only exists because Muhammad got international orders from NASA to kill Arabs.

Good to see antiwar people in the US (as opposed to "freedom or death" neanderthals like chimera)

Global Times:

Young Americans recount moments angrily rebuking anti-China politician at a forum
'He is trying to lead us into war'

A video capturing a few passionate young Americans confronting a former senior White House official Matthew Pottinger and being forcefully removed from the venue has recently made a splash across social media platforms in China and the US. According to José Vega, the 25-year-old American who was being dragged out of the venue violently, Pottinger made inflammatory remarks accusing China of instigating a potential World War III during his speech at a forum on security issues relating to the Taiwan Straits recently held in New York. Outraged by these false allegations, José and his friends Simon Miller and Robert Castle felt compelled to speak out against Pottinger's divisive rhetoric.

In an interview with the Global Times, José recalled that he was held in a choke lock and struggled to breathe after that, while Robert was taken to a secluded area and subjected to further aggression.

Despite facing physical violence from security personnel, José and his friends remained steadfast in their commitment to stand up for what they believe in - "working with China, but not war." They were even labeled "Chinese agents" by Pottinger after the incident, a phenomenon that is becoming increasingly common for writing off any criticism of US war policy.

What prompted José and the other two to stand up and angrily rebuke Pottinger?  Involved individuals' accounts to the Global Times revealed another side of the incident - how US' "China hand" incited hatred toward China while voices calling ceasefire were silenced; and how American graduates appealing the US to adhere to the "one-China principle" was labeled a "Chinese agent."

The three young Americans also represent another perspective on the public attitude of ordinary American people toward China - they want cooperation, not hatred.

On July 1, the "Asia Society" in the US hosted a forum in New York to address the potential for conflicts in the Taiwan Straits. The organizers displayed a divisive stance by listing "China" and "Taiwan" side by side on the poster. Additionally, video clip shows that during his speech, Pottinger, as a panelist, accused the Chinese mainland of destabilizing peace in the Taiwan Straits, potentially escalating tensions to the point of sparking World War III.

"Pottinger, the neoconservative official, spreads lies and is paid to confuse the American public. He is trying to get us into wars and a nuclear confrontation, not just with China, but with Russia as well. His job is to make sure that the American public have some kind of hatred that's unfounded and irrational toward China. and I don't believe that the Chinese are our enemies," José recalled what inspired to stand up for expressing his discontent with the speech.

José said Pottinger did not respond to any points he had made, but rather calling him "paid by code pink," an US anti-war organization, and a "Columbia University student," in order to associate him with the large-scale student protests against US' funding of conflicts in Gaza that across the US campuses.

"I think it was his way of deflecting the content of what I was actually saying. I presented very valid criticisms of the US based on the fact that the US is the one that's actually been warmongering and trying to get us into World War III, not just with the Chinese mainland through [the Taiwan question], but also with Russia through Ukraine issue. The country is also sending money to Israel to instigate conflicts in the Middle East area," he told the Global Times.

Pottinger worked for Reuters and the Wall Street Journal as correspondent in China for about 10 years. He was sanctioned by Chinese government in 2021 for having "seriously violated" China's sovereignty. He has also endorsed joint US-Philippine resupply missions to China's Ren'ai Jiao (also known as Ren'ai Reef) in the South China Sea, according to the South China Morning Post. Analysts in China believe that Pottinger's typical remarks are nothing but propaganda for an "anti-China united front." 

For another protester Simon Miller, US' misconducts of fully supporting Taiwan like former US House speaker Nancy Pelosi did two years ago by flying to the island of Taiwan is akin to the actions happening with the Philippines. "The Philippines is bringing shipping and construction materials to Chinese-owned islands, which is a clear red line. If these actions continue, it could lead to a scenario of an inevitable nuclear exchange," warned Simon.

"What we're trying to do is to shed a light on the truth so that Americans can see where our policies are heading. If we don't speak up, we could face dire consequences. It's up to the American people to stand up to the government and say, 'This is unacceptable. We can't be pushed closer to World War III and nuclear war,'" Simon emphasized.

So China's nhot running ships, flying planes and firing missiles and carrying on war exercises in the Taiwan Strait while continuing to demand that Taiwan surrender and become part of its governed space?

Always good to know these young students know everything...

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 17^th, 2024 at 1:56pm:

So China's nhot running ships, flying planes and firing missiles and carrying on war exercises in the Taiwan Strait while continuing to demand that Taiwan surrender and become part of its governed space? Always good to know these young students know everything...

China-Taiwan ('One Country', according to the UN)  is merely a reflection of the US's 'Blue state-Red state' ideological contest.  ie a purely internal affair.

Ironically, Trump wants to exercise a bit of 'authoritarianism', which has the US establishment calling him a threat to American democracy.....   

It's good to see people fighting for freedom of China's Philippines and its Taiwan colony. PLA will invade until death to prevent war and force a victory in the Empire of Xi.
China is right to own other countries for China's expansion. Join the PLA and its freedom for wars.

chimera wrote on Jul 17^th, 2024 at 2:09pm:

It's good to see people fighting for freedom of China's Philippines and its Taiwan colony. PLA will invade until death to prevent war and force a victory in the Empire of Xi. China is right to own other countries for China's expansion. Join the PLA and its freedom for wars.

Plain for all to see: chimera's "freedom or death" neanderthal brain fell apart ages ago...

chimera wrote on Jul 17^th, 2024 at 2:09pm:

It's good to see people fighting for freedom of China's Philippines and its Taiwan colony. PLA will invade until death to prevent war and force a victory in the Empire of Xi. China is right to own other countries for China's expansion. Join the PLA and its freedom for wars.

 

As can be seen, the order in chimera's brain came apart long ago.

At least graps can present a coherent argument - though he still hasn't replied to my exposition of his error re "people" (the aggregate of individuals) versus each self-interested individual - important  because Trump likes a bit of authoritarianism, and he is looking more like the winning candidate in November.

The USA is making a big mistake fomenting conflicts and declaring multiple states enemies at one time while it's hypocrisy over its complicity in Genocide against the Palestinians is being live-streamed to 7 Billion witnesses.

The US economy is supported by hyped-up consumer confidence, bullsh*t, and bravado and these easily fall apart. The US economy grows by 2% and the US stock market rises by 20%. That is simply not credible.

The US infrastructure plan is also bullsh*t. US infrastructure is degrading faster than it is being rebuilt.

The US public easily and joyfully follows the loudest bullsh*t propagator. They want to believe the bullsh*t.

China gave freedom to Beijing's Tibet on 19 October 1950 when 114 PLA soldiers and 180 Tibetan soldiers had been killed or wounded. Writing in 1962, Chinese General Zhang Guohua claimed 'over 5,700 enemy were destroyed'. They were Buddhist so this was nothing.
19 Feb 2021
'China’s military said on Friday that four of its soldiers were killed during a bloody Himalayan border clash with Indian forces last June'.Death gave them freedom and helped the Indian tyrants to enjoy bliss eternal in the snowy peace.  No animals were harmed in the life of China's death and killing.

A rumour has definitely emerged that India's Defence Minister Rajnath Singh has organised peace with China. Beijing will surrender totally to the Republic of India because of India's superior population. Xi and Modi will exchange bunches of flowers and Xi will live peacefully with a smile in the Bahamas.  Chinese are now learning to speak Hindi, namaste Aum. 

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jul 17^th, 2024 at 2:27pm:

The USA is making a big mistake fomenting conflicts and declaring multiple states enemies at one time while it's hypocrisy over its complicity in Genocide against the Palestinians is being live-streamed to 7 Billion witnesses. The US economy is supported by hyped-up consumer confidence, bullsh*t, and bravado and these easily fall apart. The US economy grows by 2% and the US stock market rises by 20%. That is simply not credible. The US infrastructure plan is also bullsh*t. US infrastructure is degrading faster than it is being rebuilt. The US public easily and joyfully follows the loudest bullsh*t propagator. They want to believe the bullsh*t.

And which of these conflicts is the US 'fomenting'?

List them and provide details and support for your view. Verify your support ....

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 17^th, 2024 at 2:24pm:

chimera wrote on Jul 17th, 2024 at 2:09pm: It's good to see people fighting for freedom of China's Philippines and its Taiwan colony. PLA will invade until death to prevent war and force a victory in the Empire of Xi. China is right to own other countries for China's expansion. Join the PLA and its freedom for wars.   As can be seen, the order in chimera's brain came apart long ago. At least graps can present a coherent argument - though he still hasn't replied to my exposition of his error re "people" (the aggregate of individuals) versus each self-interested individual - important  because Trump likes a bit of authoritarianism, and he is looking more like the winning candidate in November.

BULLSHIT!  I do no such thing!!   ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D    All I do is respond off the top of my head... pretty good, huh?  The Poet Laureate of the Counter-Revolution...

Each self-interested individual is part of the people... a portion of the whole.... if a single piece of the people falls off, then The People are the lesser.... therefore send not to know for whom the civil/legal right runs....... it runs for thee...

Free the CFMEU NOW!

... when they came for the Unionists.... you said nothing.............   :o

Remember George Washington and the cherry tree?

"George!  Who cut down that cherry tree while I was gone?"

"Father - I cannot tell a lie - I cut down that cherry tree!"  replies George.

So when Joe Biden is called before the International Court they ask him:-

"JOE!  Who fomented that war between Israel and Gaza?"

Joe replies:-

"Llike George Washington I cannot tell a lie - that war committed suicide!"

'By 1949 China was under Communist control. Official Communist figures counted some 1.5 million dead and wounded among the People's Liberation Army.'
Several died in Mao's cultural revolution, mainly from over-eating and reading his red book. They were free to do that. Some were better dead than red which was death and freedom. Some became hacks for CCP and that's not a lie.

We are in danger of falling under the sway of what I have long predicted, given the steady assault on legal and civil rights of all kinds.... that of a domineering, over-centralised government that holds nothing sacred in its pursuit of its ideas and ideals (and not those of the people it serves).

The biggest issue with that is that it will not be my excellent self - with all my inherent kindness - as The Leader..... it will instead ... be some darkest gutter snipe raised way above his/her ability and intellect and moral value ...  Anthony I, Emperor of Australia.....

Like the Aurelian, the Albanesian will be able to say:-  "The more I go down amongst the ways of women - the less human I become!" The Aurelian (Marcus Aurelius but not of Gladiator) said 'of Men'.... The Albanesian is a servitor to the women - the 'feminine' .... and thus has doomed this country to a permanent night of the soul and spirit ... and to possible future invasion and subjugation by some nation governed by balls....

Centrifugal governors known as fly-ball governors were  used to regulate the pressure from centralised power boilers. They were used to train an army, grind down the wheat and steam-roll women into submission. In this way the west was won, regulated and then lost as steamships were called 'she'.   'She is the eighth Royal Navy ship to have the name HMS Prince of Wales. Construction of the ship began in 2011 at Rosyth Dockyard and ended with launch on 21 December 2017. She was handed over to the Royal Navy.' There were wooden ships and iron men until ball governors and governor's wives who held balls.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jul 17^th, 2024 at 2:27pm:

The USA is making a big mistake fomenting conflicts and declaring multiple states enemies at one time while it's hypocrisy over its complicity in Genocide against the Palestinians is being live-streamed to 7 Billion witnesses. The US economy is supported by hyped-up consumer confidence, bullsh*t, and bravado and these easily fall apart. The US economy grows by 2% and the US stock market rises by 20%. That is simply not credible. The US infrastructure plan is also bullsh*t. US infrastructure is degrading faster than it is being rebuilt. The US public easily and joyfully follows the loudest bullsh*t propagator. They want to believe the bullsh*t.

All true; looking forward, I did see an article claiming Trump said he won't go to war over Taiwan, unlike Biden (Trump noted Taiwan is 10,000 miles from the US, only 55 miles from China....). 

I'm almost looking forward to Trump's imposed peace in Ulkraine, not sure about Gaza.

China's base in Djibouti is about 8,000km distant. US is not claiming any land in Asia, China is steadily expanding into other countries.

Trump's peace is for Kyiv to rule Russia and Pyongyang to control China. This will avoid all vetos, freedoms and deaths.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 17^th, 2024 at 6:42pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 17th, 2024 at 2:24pm: chimera wrote on Jul 17th, 2024 at 2:09pm: It's good to see people fighting for freedom of China's Philippines and its Taiwan colony. PLA will invade until death to prevent war and force a victory in the Empire of Xi. China is right to own other countries for China's expansion. Join the PLA and its freedom for wars.   As can be seen, the order in chimera's brain came apart long ago. At least graps can present a coherent argument - though he still hasn't replied to my exposition of his error re "people" (the aggregate of individuals) versus each self-interested individual - important  because Trump likes a bit of authoritarianism, and he is looking more like the winning candidate in November. BULLSHIT!  I do no such thing!!   ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D    All I do is respond off the top of my head... pretty good, huh?  The Poet Laureate of the Counter-Revolution...

To clarify, I meant your statements (usually...) aren't  chimera - style, incomprehensible word salads.

But your reasoning .... oh dear....let's see what you've got:   


Quote:

Each self-interested individual is part of the people... a portion of the whole....

Correct so far, let's read on (I suspect a logical clanger wont be too far away): 


Quote:

if a single piece of the people falls off, then The People are the lesser....

hookaay...eg if Crooks is taken out, the population is reduced by ONE; "the People are the 'lesser'" is a value judgement.

(still waiting for the clanger...)


Quote:

therefore send not to know for whom the civil/legal right runs....... it runs for thee...

Bingo - mixing metaphors: ie 'for whom the bell tolls' - meaning we are all mortal; as opposed to law which applies to all, but which some individuals ( eg "sovereign citizens") might not wish to observe. 


Quote:

Free the CFMEU NOW! ... when they came for the Unionists.... you said nothing.............   :o

The CFMEU is apparently infiltrated with crims; but I agree the bosses are laughing all the way to the bank while workers slave all day  in dangerous work for a pittance. 

Not sure how the CFMEU - who the establishment is trying to convince everyone is worthy of condemnation, is an example of the individual  or the the people (as a whole). 

On the other hand, Tibet could be given China, which would be more peaceful than Kim the Kommo who pays low wages.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 17^th, 2024 at 6:46pm:

So when Joe Biden is called before the International Court they ask him:-

Joe Biden won't be called before the ICC.


Quote:

- that war committed suicide!"

chimera-style nonsense.

Wars don't commit suicide.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 17^th, 2024 at 7:13pm:

We are in danger of falling under the sway of what I have long predicted, given the steady assault on legal and civil rights of all kinds...

Doc Evatt, who knew  something about legal and civil rights, wanted a UNSC without veto, "to save mankind from the scourge of war".

You?


Quote:

The biggest issue with that (government leadership) is that it will not be my excellent self - with all my inherent kindness - as The Leader..... it will instead ... be some darkest gutter snipe raised way above his/her ability and intellect and moral value ...  Anthony I, Emperor of Australia.....

We need someone with Trump's abilities and Evatt's intellect  to bang heads together in the UN. No-one wants war.


Quote:

Like the Aurelian, the Albanesian will be able to say:-  "The more I go down amongst the ways of women - the less human I become!" The Aurelian (Marcus Aurelius but not of Gladiator) said 'of Men'.... The Albanesian is a servitor to the women - the 'feminine' .... and thus has doomed this country to a permanent night of the soul and spirit ... and to possible future invasion and subjugation by some nation governed by balls....

Sexist bs. Cleopatra was as capable as anyone, and would have united Egypt and Rome without war,  if things had gone her way. 

Freedom or death is nonsense for China. It has no armed forces, is never under threat and never causes death.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 18^th, 2024 at 4:34pm:

Cleopatra was as capable as anyone, and would have united Egypt and Rome without war,  if things had gone her way.

Mr and Mrs Xi offer peace and love and United States of China.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 18^th, 2024 at 4:08pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 17th, 2024 at 6:42pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 17th, 2024 at 2:24pm: chimera wrote on Jul 17th, 2024 at 2:09pm: It's good to see people fighting for freedom of China's Philippines and its Taiwan colony. PLA will invade until death to prevent war and force a victory in the Empire of Xi. China is right to own other countries for China's expansion. Join the PLA and its freedom for wars.   As can be seen, the order in chimera's brain came apart long ago. At least graps can present a coherent argument - though he still hasn't replied to my exposition of his error re "people" (the aggregate of individuals) versus each self-interested individual - important  because Trump likes a bit of authoritarianism, and he is looking more like the winning candidate in November. BULLSHIT!  I do no such thing!!   ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D    All I do is respond off the top of my head... pretty good, huh?  The Poet Laureate of the Counter-Revolution... To clarify, I meant your statements (usually...) aren't  chimera - style, incomprehensible word salads. But your reasoning .... oh dear....let's see what you've got:    Quote: Each self-interested individual is part of the people... a portion of the whole.... Correct so far, let's read on (I suspect a logical clanger wont be too far away):  [quote]if a single piece of the people falls off, then The People are the lesser....

hookaay...eg if Crooks is taken out, the population is reduced by ONE; "the People are the 'lesser'" is a value judgement.

(still waiting for the clanger...)


Quote:

therefore send not to know for whom the civil/legal right runs....... it runs for thee...

Bingo - mixing metaphors: ie 'for whom the bell tolls' - meaning we are all mortal; as opposed to law which applies to all, but which some individuals ( eg "sovereign citizens") might not wish to observe. 


Quote:

Free the CFMEU NOW! ... when they came for the Unionists.... you said nothing.............   :o

The CFMEU is apparently infiltrated with crims; but I agree the bosses are laughing all the way to the bank while workers slave all day  in dangerous work for a pittance. 

Not sure how the CFMEU - who the establishment is trying to convince everyone is worthy of condemnation, is an example of the individual  or the the people (as a whole). 




[/quote]

Yes - but think of the potential lost in such a Crooks ending...

When they came for the Unionists.. you said nothing.... well - are you saying that CFMEU people aren't people?  You reckon Black Powerists deserve 'respect' and (over)inclusion.... why not the Unionists?

Humanity - the people - are what they are ... good and bad and all spaces in between.... but the general trend - according to Hopkins - is steadily upward .... according to Grappler - until we encounter these retrograde movements intent on returning the world to a feudal style so as to advantage themselves.... like............... say ............ the Chinese heads ...

When they came for the anti-Black Powerists.. you said nothing ...
when they came for the Jews.... you said nothing ...
when they came for the Tibetans and the Taiwanese ... you said nothing..
when they came for the Unionists... you said nothing ...

Joe and Jill of course are willing to see a CCP of Washington. Can't argue against that.

chimera wrote on Jul 18^th, 2024 at 4:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 18th, 2024 at 4:34pm: Cleopatra was as capable as anyone, and would have united Egypt and Rome without war,  if things had gone her way.  Mr and Mrs Xi offer peace and love and United States of China.

Austrochine...... the South East Province.... when Kommissar Xi arrived, he saw a land with no organised government, no essential services that worked, no real infrastructure - and so he declared it Terra Nullius..... when the first Flotilla arrived and set up camp, they found that the entire land was filled with feckless, drunken layabouts who would not work in the Chinese way... so they set about genociding them in a series of Frontier Wars ... but the Warriors of the Australian Resistance stood firm and rooted religiously so as to continue to dominate politics here ....

Com'mon graps; three posts and no reply...you hiding behind chimera's insanity?

chimera wrote on Jul 18^th, 2024 at 4:40pm:

Joe and Jill of course are willing to see a CCP of Washington. Can't argue against that.

Joe and Jill
Went up Capitol Hill
To call old Trump a rorter
Jill was spent,
And Joe's knees bent,
And his pants were brown with blorter ....

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 18^th, 2024 at 4:43pm:

Com'mon graps; three posts and no reply...you hiding behind chimera's insanity?

I don't respond to empty rhetoric.... chim, chiminy, chim, chiminy, chim, chim, cheroo is doing great - just needs a little interpretation... like a djinn in the desert on a hot day, he tends to distort telescopic sights and make shots difficult...  it was a djinn that protected Trump - or maybe a gin ... not sure...

https://i.redd.it/l8n4n8jt0l9d1.gif

I'm waiting on history to support my views .... won't be long now - as mothra said once (foolishly about boomers - what a child) ... tick, tock.... tick, tock ... tick, tock... international order is steadily coming apart at an accelerating rate.... and half of the problem is the idiots who support all the wrong things these days.... DUH ....

Respect your elders, mothra said - but only if they're Black.  I know a few Aboriginal elders - some good ones, too ... and around here they do teach the young ones some good values... the kids are accepted at schools and such and have no trouble getting jobs ... we treat them same as anyone else... and you know what?  Too many of them still go off the rails and end up in prison... some tried to 'burn the place down' during the Summer of Bushfires and ended up rounded up slowly but surely ... I get the news from my hair cutter who is half Aboriginal.... he knows it all and sees a lot from his business front window.... points out the 'trade' of every bad-ass who goes past... that guy steals push bikes... that one earns his crust getting the girls preggers so they can get on single mother's ... splits the baby money ...

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 18^th, 2024 at 4:34pm:

Doc Evatt, who knew  something "to save mankind from the scourge of war".

Doc and Kevin Rudd veto the veto, China gives the nod and Alabanese gets the PLA.  Vote 'yes'.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 18^th, 2024 at 4:38pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 18th, 2024 at 4:08pm: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 17th, 2024 at 6:42pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 17th, 2024 at 2:24pm: chimera wrote on Jul 17th, 2024 at 2:09pm: It's good to see people fighting for freedom of China's Philippines and its Taiwan colony. PLA will invade until death to prevent war and force a victory in the Empire of Xi. China is right to own other countries for China's expansion. Join the PLA and its freedom for wars.   As can be seen, the order in chimera's brain came apart long ago. At least graps can present a coherent argument - though he still hasn't replied to my exposition of his error re "people" (the aggregate of individuals) versus each self-interested individual - important  because Trump likes a bit of authoritarianism, and he is looking more like the winning candidate in November. BULLSHIT!  I do no such thing!!   ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D    All I do is respond off the top of my head... pretty good, huh?  The Poet Laureate of the Counter-Revolution... To clarify, I meant your statements (usually...) aren't  chimera - style, incomprehensible word salads. But your reasoning .... oh dear....let's see what you've got:    Quote: Each self-interested individual is part of the people... a portion of the whole.... Correct so far, let's read on (I suspect a logical clanger wont be too far away):  [quote]if a single piece of the people falls off, then The People are the lesser.... hookaay...eg if Crooks is taken out, the population is reduced by ONE; "the People are the 'lesser'" is a value judgement. (still waiting for the clanger...) [quote] therefore send not to know for whom the civil/legal right runs....... it runs for thee...

Bingo - mixing metaphors: ie 'for whom the bell tolls' - meaning we are all mortal; as opposed to law which applies to all, but which some individuals ( eg "sovereign citizens") might not wish to observe. 


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Free the CFMEU NOW! ... when they came for the Unionists.... you said nothing.............   :o

The CFMEU is apparently infiltrated with crims; but I agree the bosses are laughing all the way to the bank while workers slave all day  in dangerous work for a pittance. 

Not sure how the CFMEU - who the establishment is trying to convince everyone is worthy of condemnation, is an example of the individual  or the the people (as a whole).  [/quote]

Yes - but think of the potential lost in such a Crooks ending...[/quote]

An age-care worker's  (Crooks)  potential? What do you have in mind? But certainly the results of  Elser succeeding in taking out Hitler are unfathomable.


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When they came for the Unionists.. you said nothing.... well - are you saying that CFMEU people aren't people?  You reckon Black Powerists deserve 'respect' and (over)inclusion.... why not the Unionists?

Hey, I said the bosses are as much bastards as criminal unionists.

As for your mentally incompetent equating the people with individuals within the people, that's the source of of your 'individual sovereignty'  delusion. 


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Humanity - the people - are what they are ... good and bad and all spaces in between....

Correct - again (you manage it now and again...); you, me, chimera and everyone else with our sometimes self-interest, sometimes kindness, and much more.


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but the general trend - according to Hopkins - is steadily upward .... according to Grappler - until we encounter these retrograde movements intent on returning the world to a feudal style so as to advantage themselves.... like............... say ............ the Chinese heads ...

Interesting theory: the "general trend" of most individuals is "upward". 

I won't disagree, except to note life is so chaotic it requires good government from the UN down to manage the chaos of intersecting ambitions and abilities. That's why I am attracted to 'benevolent authority' as a basis for good governance.   


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When they came for the anti-Black Powerists.. you said nothing ...

You know that's not correct; I'm the one arguing for a universal job guarntee, NOT 'Black Power'. Do try to keep up.

Even now I am arguing for a post individual-culture/ individual-ideology world; see the UN UDHR. 


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when they came for the Jews.... you said nothing ... when they came for the Tibetans and the Taiwanese ... you said nothing.. when they came for the Unionists... you said nothing ...

To those specifics:

1. The US and Canada rejected fleeing Jews in 1938; I'm saying Palestine should have been recognizwed when Israel was recognized in 1947.

2. Tibet was conquered by the Qing empire at a time when 'might is right'; and Britain was subjugating peoples all around the world.

3. Taiwan is inhabited by Chinese who until recently claimed THEY (the ROC) were the legitimate government of China....your argument is weak.

4. Addressed previously.

Unlike Albo, I'm aware unionists and all workers are oppressed by governments who are  forced to practice 'austerity' by private money lenders (see Keen's posts re money creation in banks, in the MMT thread). 

Taiwan owns China which doesn't die for freedom. Problem solved.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 18^th, 2024 at 4:48pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 18th, 2024 at 4:43pm: Com'mon graps; three posts and no reply...you hiding behind chimera's insanity? I don't respond to empty rhetoric....

Where's the empty rhetoric in:  - logically - the individuals who speak with their separate voices are NOT "the people" as represented by their  government empowered by majority vote (or consensus)  of the separate individuals?   

Now - I know you don't do logic, but still this has been an interesting exchange, given pollies in the US are now shouting democracy is supposed to be a non-violent exchange of ideas without resort to the gun...

Difficult, when people don't do logic and resort to hating the oppostion. or government itself.


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(chimera) just needs a little interpretation... like a djinn in the desert on a hot day, he tends to distort telescopic sights and make shots difficult...  it was a djinn that protected Trump - or maybe a gin ... not sure...

Ladies and gentemen  - witness graps in full flight.. good governance in our democracies depends on his vote.....

chimera wrote on Jul 18^th, 2024 at 5:54pm:

Taiwan owns China which doesn't die for freedom. Problem solved.

Not so fast.  The US, France, and the UK aren't looking good; the Chinese might want to reject the chaos of adversarial democracies.

'The name "People's Liberation Army" was chosen to reflect the PLA's stated goal of liberating the Chinese people from the control of the nationalist Kuomintang government.'

liberation means 'act of setting free'. Freedom.
death means no more marching, cleaning boots, parades, orders, inspections and Kuomintang elections.

Doesn't matter does it? If Taiwan wants Ukraine, it gets it. If it marches on Beijing, it gets it. Now.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 18^th, 2024 at 6:20pm:

chimera wrote on Jul 18th, 2024 at 5:54pm: Taiwan owns China which doesn't die for freedom. Problem solved. Not so fast.  The US, France, and the UK aren't looking good; the Chinese might want to reject the chaos of adversarial democracies.

Poor buggars - then they'll have to learn the rules regarding foreign nations, won't they?  National (gasps) sovereignty, innit....

Now then - I think it's time we set China on the right path, don't you?  (heh, heh, heh)...

International orders to Alibaba are coming apart although Jack Ma's company has 50% of China. His Ant Group made major changes to its ownership structure in January 2023 and its founder Jack Ma's voting rights were reduced from 50% to 6%.
His order to buy Canberra is peaceful and without freedom as Oz is slowly coming a part of Beijing.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 3:38pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 18th, 2024 at 6:20pm: chimera wrote on Jul 18th, 2024 at 5:54pm: Taiwan owns China which doesn't die for freedom. Problem solved. Not so fast.  The US, France, and the UK aren't looking good; the Chinese might want to reject the chaos of adversarial democracies. Poor buggars - then they'll have to learn the rules regarding foreign nations, won't they?  National (gasps) sovereignty, innit....

China already knows the rules re "democray"; moreover, has no intention of intervening in other nations' governments (don't interfere when your adversaries are f**cking up all by themselves). 


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Now then - I think it's time we set China on the right path, don't you?  (heh, heh, heh)...

Let's see what comes out the third plenum; they are aware something's  not right with the market economies; how can the West  charge China with "overcapacity" when the developing world is still under-consuming.