https://theconversation.com/this-is-the-weakest-economy-outside-of-a-recession-heres-what-the-gdp-figures-show-236128


GDP per capita has been falling for six consecutive quarters.
This means this measure of living standards has been falling for 18 months –
a record since the Bureau of Statistics began publishing GDP per capita in the early 1970s.


This is the weakest economy outside of a recession. Here’s what the GDP figures show

Published: September 4, 2024 4.06pm AEST


The latest national accounts show the Australian economy is struggling. It’s what you would expect after the sharpest series of interest rate rises on record, and is more or less what the Reserve Bank was trying to achieve to bring down inflation.

Australia’s gross domestic product grew just 0.2% in the three months to June, after growing 0.2% in the previous three months (upgraded from an earlier estimate of 0.1%) and 0.2% the three months before that.

So low is the run of low growth that the economy grew just 1% over the year to June. That’s the lowest annual growth outside of a recession since the mid-1980s.


https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/lHo7n/full.png


We are not in recession as commonly defined: two consecutive quarters of negative growth. Nor are we in the broader definition of a recession favoured by the Reserve Bank, one accompanied by a significant increase in unemployment.

That is actually one of the positives at present – unemployment remains low. Nevertheless, it feels like a recession for many Australians.

Were it not for population growth, GDP would be going backwards.
Population growth has been keeping the economy afloat.

Australians who oppose immigration might want to reflect on whether they would prefer a recession.

Public sector spending has also been shoring up the economy. It contributed 0.4 percentage points to the quarterly economic growth figure of 0.2%, meaning that without it the economy would have also gone backwards.

In the words of Treasurer Jim Chalmers at the national accounts press conference:

She'll be right mate. OY OY OY!

A few more holes in the ground, a few more cows and sheep and Oz is over the hump.

How about a few brown paper bags of free money for the proletariat?

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 8:28pm:

She'll be right mate. OY OY OY! A few more holes in the ground, a few more cows and sheep and Oz is over the hump. How about a few brown paper bags of free money for the proletariat?

We can only keep going with a negative GDP per capita by
importing millions of golliwogs.  WTF?

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 8:30pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 8:28pm: She'll be right mate. OY OY OY! A few more holes in the ground, a few more cows and sheep and Oz is over the hump. How about a few brown paper bags of free money for the proletariat? We can only keep going with a negative GDP per capita by importing millions of golliwogs.  WTF?

Australia would be f*cked without the Golliwogs.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 8:34pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 8:30pm: Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 8:28pm: She'll be right mate. OY OY OY! A few more holes in the ground, a few more cows and sheep and Oz is over the hump. How about a few brown paper bags of free money for the proletariat? We can only keep going with a negative GDP per capita by importing millions of golliwogs.  WTF? Australia would be f*cked without the Golliwogs.

We need more of them - even without housing -
let 12 of them live in one bedroom flats -
turn Melbourne into Calcutta - if that's what it takes -
how did we get into this situation?

We should be the wealthiest nation the world -
you just have to put a spade in the ground and dig out valuable minerals -
where's all the money gone?

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 8:28pm:

She'll be right mate. OY OY OY! A few more holes in the ground, a few more cows and sheep and Oz is over the hump. How about a few brown paper bags of free money for the proletariat?

The Reserve Bank would have to raise interest rates for that to happen -- ironically.

Oligarchs own the money and therefore the politicians.

Oligarchs want more immigrants and foreign workers to pressure wages and conditions.

The Australian university population is ~33% foreigners.

There are a lot of workers on visas who will be granted residence eventually.

Oligarchs are making money from a plethora of foreigners.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 8:34pm:

Australia would be f*cked without the Golliwogs.

The Australian colonials fkked the Golliwogs by giving them the "wog".

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 8:55pm:

Oligarchs own the money and therefore the politicians. Oligarchs want more immigrants and foreign workers to pressure wages and conditions. The Australian university population is ~33% foreigners. There are a lot of workers on visas who will be granted residence eventually. Oligarchs are making money from a plethora of foreigners.

We need a Royal Commission -

find out who stole our wealth and get it back.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 8:39pm:

We should be the wealthiest nation the world - you just have to put a spade in the ground and dig out valuable minerals - where's all the money gone?

Probably because people like you were too busy trying to look handsome for your significant other, and showing off a narcissistic streak.

How many mines did you work around in the last 50 years?

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 8:55pm:

Oligarchs own the money and therefore the politicians. Oligarchs want more immigrants and foreign workers to pressure wages and conditions. The Australian university population is ~33% foreigners. There are a lot of workers on visas who will be granted residence eventually. Oligarchs are making money from a plethora of foreigners.

And universities are very left-wing because they need to cater to those 33% of those who identify as foreigners.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 8:57pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 8:55pm: Oligarchs own the money and therefore the politicians. Oligarchs want more immigrants and foreign workers to pressure wages and conditions. The Australian university population is ~33% foreigners. There are a lot of workers on visas who will be granted residence eventually. Oligarchs are making money from a plethora of foreigners. We need a Royal Commission - find out who stole our wealth and get it back.

Oligarchs have hungry families and associates too.

Give till it hurts.

Ask not what your country can do for you.

Steal a horse and join Aquascoot's uprising.

UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 8:58pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 8:39pm: We should be the wealthiest nation the world - you just have to put a spade in the ground and dig out valuable minerals - where's all the money gone? Probably because people like you were too busy trying to look handsome for your significant other, and showing off a narcissistic streak. How many mines did you work around in the last 50 years?

Many mines.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 8:57pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 8:55pm: Oligarchs own the money and therefore the politicians. Oligarchs want more immigrants and foreign workers to pressure wages and conditions. The Australian university population is ~33% foreigners. There are a lot of workers on visas who will be granted residence eventually. Oligarchs are making money from a plethora of foreigners. We need a Royal Commission - find out who stole our wealth and get it back.

If you are not working beyond the age of 70, or can afford to retire, you are technically part of the problem. But, that is okay. Because you keep me employed for longer.

I intend to retire at the age of 75.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 9:01pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 8:57pm: Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 8:55pm: Oligarchs own the money and therefore the politicians. Oligarchs want more immigrants and foreign workers to pressure wages and conditions. The Australian university population is ~33% foreigners. There are a lot of workers on visas who will be granted residence eventually. Oligarchs are making money from a plethora of foreigners. We need a Royal Commission - find out who stole our wealth and get it back. Oligarchs have hungry families and associates too. Give till it hurts. Ask not what your country can do for you. Steal a horse and join Aquascoot's uprising.

In many ways we are like Africa - also a very rich continent -
we allowed ourselves to be raped and plundered by the Europeans.

UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 9:03pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 8:57pm: Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 8:55pm: Oligarchs own the money and therefore the politicians. Oligarchs want more immigrants and foreign workers to pressure wages and conditions. The Australian university population is ~33% foreigners. There are a lot of workers on visas who will be granted residence eventually. Oligarchs are making money from a plethora of foreigners. We need a Royal Commission - find out who stole our wealth and get it back. If you are not working beyond the age of 70, or can afford to retire, you are technically part of the problem. But, that is okay. Because you keep me employed for longer. I intend to retire at the age of 75.

Bugger that - I'm not dying at my desk for a lousy boss.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 9:01pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 8:58pm: Bobby. wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 8:39pm: We should be the wealthiest nation the world - you just have to put a spade in the ground and dig out valuable minerals - where's all the money gone? Probably because people like you were too busy trying to look handsome for your significant other, and showing off a narcissistic streak. How many mines did you work around in the last 50 years? Many mines.

Then I am okay with that.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 9:05pm:

Bugger that - I'm not dying at my desk for a lousy boss.

There are 75-year-old men who are physically fitter than I am. Very few people here disagree. In 30 years time, who am I to say I don't deserve to retire?

Australian money flows in a closed loop.

Oligarchs give money to politicians in paper and plastic bags. Politicians multiply it with taxpayer donations and give it back to the Oligarchs in truckloads.

Thank god for taxpayers or we would all be starving.

UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 9:05pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 9:01pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 8:58pm: Bobby. wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 8:39pm: We should be the wealthiest nation the world - you just have to put a spade in the ground and dig out valuable minerals - where's all the money gone? Probably because people like you were too busy trying to look handsome for your significant other, and showing off a narcissistic streak. How many mines did you work around in the last 50 years? Many mines. Then I am okay with that.

The mines make so much money that we should all be living like multi millionaires.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 9:07pm:

Australian money flows in a closed loop. Oligarchs give money to politicians in paper and plastic bags. Politicians multiply it with taxpayer donations and give it back to the Oligarchs in truckloads. Thank god for taxpayers or we would all be starving.

Australia's resources have been raped and pillaged by foreign powers.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 9:07pm:

Australian money flows in a closed loop. Oligarchs give money to politicians in paper and plastic bags. Politicians multiply it with taxpayer donations and give it back to the Oligarchs in truckloads. Thank god for taxpayers or we would all be starving.

It is amazing how an indigenous player dried up the funding for her sport by calling her fundraiser a racist because of what the fundraiser's father was recorded saying.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 9:09pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 9:07pm: Australian money flows in a closed loop. Oligarchs give money to politicians in paper and plastic bags. Politicians multiply it with taxpayer donations and give it back to the Oligarchs in truckloads. Thank god for taxpayers or we would all be starving. Australia's resources have been raped and pillaged by foreign powers.

Australian politicians are quislings of Uncle Sam and Israel.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 8:22pm:

GDP per capita has been falling for six consecutive quarters. This means this measure of living standards has been falling for 18 months........

Oh bobby.

Oh bobby.

Oh bobby.



Australians are fixated upon money, and gaining.

Bad.

Mammon = = wealth regarded as an evil influence or false object of worship (taken by medieval writers as the name of the devil of covetousness).



If only Australians were meditating, instead, upon integrity and, meditating upon the good character of God.

Then, Australia would be 'the lucky country', still.

You know that it is true.


.


"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night."


"Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD."


Instead Australia, as a nation [and, as the whole world],
is circling the drain hole of history.

Not so?



A brave, wondrous new world, is ours, eh ?

Spin doctors.

Liars.

Not so?

Yadda wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 9:16pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 8:22pm: GDP per capita has been falling for six consecutive quarters. This means this measure of living standards has been falling for 18 months........ Oh bobby. Oh bobby. Oh bobby. Australians are fixated upon money, and gaining. Bad. Mammon = = wealth regarded as an evil influence or false object of worship (taken by medieval writers as the name of the devil of covetousness). If only Australians were meditating, instead, upon integrity and, meditating upon the good character of God. Then, Australia would be 'the lucky country', still. You know that it is true. . "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night." "Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD." Instead Australia, as a nation [and, as the whole world], is circling the drain hole of history. Not so? A brave, wondrous new world, is ours, eh ? Spin doctors. Liars. Not so?

Yep,    'Laugh till you cry',     is able to see the people of West, as they are.......

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1725431751/14#14

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 9:13pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 9:09pm: Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 9:07pm: Australian money flows in a closed loop. Oligarchs give money to politicians in paper and plastic bags. Politicians multiply it with taxpayer donations and give it back to the Oligarchs in truckloads. Thank god for taxpayers or we would all be starving. Australia's resources have been raped and pillaged by foreign powers. Australian politicians are quislings of Uncle Sam and Israel.

And the POMs.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 9:29pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 9:13pm: Bobby. wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 9:09pm: Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 9:07pm: Australian money flows in a closed loop. Oligarchs give money to politicians in paper and plastic bags. Politicians multiply it with taxpayer donations and give it back to the Oligarchs in truckloads. Thank god for taxpayers or we would all be starving. Australia's resources have been raped and pillaged by foreign powers. Australian politicians are quislings of Uncle Sam and Israel. And the POMs.

Bending the knee to superiors is Australian culture.

At Chez Gordon both knees are bent.

The constant focus on GDP GROWTH in the financial media in Australia, indeed within the share market focussed financial industry period in this country, is annoyingly juvenile and simplistic.

Hands up all those whom know some average GDP growth figures in some of the happiest, most admired countries in the world. Countries like Norway with an average GDP growth rate of around just 0.5% PA for example, for decades. Or Switzerland with similar etc etc.

Continued over-achieving growth, is not a pre-requisite for a country to be successful with it's citizens happy and enjoying high living standards. You wouldn't know that if you relied solely on the pathetic level of primary school financial reporting in this country, but that is a reality.

It is no different to any venture, from small business to entire civilisation building, even to war. Continued expansion and growth, without periods of stabilisation and even retracement to lay better foundations, leads to over-extension and toppling.

It is not always the negative portrayed by a low IQ financial media and commentators to see an easing in expansion and a focus on improving foundations.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 8:22pm:

https://theconversation.com/this-is-the-weakest-economy-outside-of-a-recession-heres-what-the-gdp-figures-show-236128 GDP per capita has been falling for six consecutive quarters. This means this measure of living standards has been falling for 18 months – a record since the Bureau of Statistics began publishing GDP per capita in the early 1970s. This is the weakest economy outside of a recession. Here’s what the GDP figures show Published: September 4, 2024 4.06pm AEST The latest national accounts show the Australian economy is struggling. It’s what you would expect after the sharpest series of interest rate rises on record, and is more or less what the Reserve Bank was trying to achieve to bring down inflation. Australia’s gross domestic product grew just 0.2% in the three months to June, after growing 0.2% in the previous three months (upgraded from an earlier estimate of 0.1%) and 0.2% the three months before that. So low is the run of low growth that the economy grew just 1% over the year to June. That’s the lowest annual growth outside of a recession since the mid-1980s. https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/lHo7n/full.png We are not in recession as commonly defined: two consecutive quarters of negative growth. Nor are we in the broader definition of a recession favoured by the Reserve Bank, one accompanied by a significant increase in unemployment. That is actually one of the positives at present – unemployment remains low. Nevertheless, it feels like a recession for many Australians. Were it not for population growth, GDP would be going backwards. Population growth has been keeping the economy afloat. Australians who oppose immigration might want to reflect on whether they would prefer a recession. Public sector spending has also been shoring up the economy. It contributed 0.4 percentage points to the quarterly economic growth figure of 0.2%, meaning that without it the economy would have also gone backwards. In the words of Treasurer Jim Chalmers at the national accounts press conference:

The author has it all backwards. Why would anyone want to use the population to manage gross GDP? It is per capita GDP that really counts, and there is nothing to show that immigration fixes that. If anything, it probably makes it worse. It definitely worsens all the other measures of quality of life.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 4^th, 2024 at 8:34pm:

We can only keep going with a negative GDP per capita by importing millions of golliwogs.  WTF?

Australia would be fucked without the Golliwogs.


But the "Good Christian Bobby" has made it very CLEAR
His whiter-than-white congregation will not stand for any more niggers in this country


.

freediver wrote on Sep 5^th, 2024 at 8:41am:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 8:22pm: https://theconversation.com/this-is-the-weakest-economy-outside-of-a-recession-heres-what-the-gdp-figures-show-236128 GDP per capita has been falling for six consecutive quarters. This means this measure of living standards has been falling for 18 months – a record since the Bureau of Statistics began publishing GDP per capita in the early 1970s. This is the weakest economy outside of a recession. Here’s what the GDP figures show Published: September 4, 2024 4.06pm AEST The latest national accounts show the Australian economy is struggling. It’s what you would expect after the sharpest series of interest rate rises on record, and is more or less what the Reserve Bank was trying to achieve to bring down inflation. Australia’s gross domestic product grew just 0.2% in the three months to June, after growing 0.2% in the previous three months (upgraded from an earlier estimate of 0.1%) and 0.2% the three months before that. So low is the run of low growth that the economy grew just 1% over the year to June. That’s the lowest annual growth outside of a recession since the mid-1980s. https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/lHo7n/full.png We are not in recession as commonly defined: two consecutive quarters of negative growth. Nor are we in the broader definition of a recession favoured by the Reserve Bank, one accompanied by a significant increase in unemployment. That is actually one of the positives at present – unemployment remains low. Nevertheless, it feels like a recession for many Australians. Were it not for population growth, GDP would be going backwards. Population growth has been keeping the economy afloat. Australians who oppose immigration might want to reflect on whether they would prefer a recession. Public sector spending has also been shoring up the economy. It contributed 0.4 percentage points to the quarterly economic growth figure of 0.2%, meaning that without it the economy would have also gone backwards. In the words of Treasurer Jim Chalmers at the national accounts press conference: The author has it all backwards. Why would anyone want to use the population to manage gross GDP?

Mainstream flat-earth economists say population increase increases demand and consumption, and hence GDP.


Quote:

It is per capita GDP that really counts, and there is nothing to show that immigration fixes that. If anything, it probably makes it worse. It definitely worsens all the other measures of quality of life.

Correct, but the mainstream economists are living in the delusional "continuous growth" world.

Note: the idiot Bullock - keeping interest rates higher for longer - is stealing money from people with mortgages and no savings, and giving it to the minority of people (like me) who own a house and have savings.

And Chalmers is hiding behind the "independence" of the the central bank, as cover for his ineptitude, while  average wealth (per capita GDP)  is shrinking under his management. 

Deplorable.

freediver wrote on Sep 5^th, 2024 at 8:41am:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 8:22pm: https://theconversation.com/this-is-the-weakest-economy-outside-of-a-recession-heres-what-the-gdp-figures-show-236128 GDP per capita has been falling for six consecutive quarters. This means this measure of living standards has been falling for 18 months – a record since the Bureau of Statistics began publishing GDP per capita in the early 1970s. This is the weakest economy outside of a recession. Here’s what the GDP figures show Published: September 4, 2024 4.06pm AEST The latest national accounts show the Australian economy is struggling. It’s what you would expect after the sharpest series of interest rate rises on record, and is more or less what the Reserve Bank was trying to achieve to bring down inflation. Australia’s gross domestic product grew just 0.2% in the three months to June, after growing 0.2% in the previous three months (upgraded from an earlier estimate of 0.1%) and 0.2% the three months before that. So low is the run of low growth that the economy grew just 1% over the year to June. That’s the lowest annual growth outside of a recession since the mid-1980s. https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/lHo7n/full.png We are not in recession as commonly defined: two consecutive quarters of negative growth. Nor are we in the broader definition of a recession favoured by the Reserve Bank, one accompanied by a significant increase in unemployment. That is actually one of the positives at present – unemployment remains low. Nevertheless, it feels like a recession for many Australians. Were it not for population growth, GDP would be going backwards. Population growth has been keeping the economy afloat. Australians who oppose immigration might want to reflect on whether they would prefer a recession. Public sector spending has also been shoring up the economy. It contributed 0.4 percentage points to the quarterly economic growth figure of 0.2%, meaning that without it the economy would have also gone backwards. In the words of Treasurer Jim Chalmers at the national accounts press conference: The author has it all backwards. Why would anyone want to use the population to manage gross GDP? It is per capita GDP that really counts, and there is nothing to show that immigration fixes that. If anything, it probably makes it worse. It definitely worsens all the other measures of quality of life.

yes but he does say

"This means this measure of living standards has been falling for 18 months –"

Quote:

Mainstream flat-earth economists say population increase increases demand and consumption, and hence GDP.

It does. But like the author, you completely miss the point.


Quote:

Correct, but the mainstream economists are living in the delusional "continuous growth" world.

Why? Because they tell the same truth that you do? You are inventing a strawman, so tell us what it is.


Quote:

yes but he does say "This means this measure of living standards has been falling for 18 months –"

He also says:

Australians who oppose immigration might want to reflect on whether they would prefer a recession.

Hence, he misses the point. A recession in which living standards increase due to population decline is preferable to economic growth in which living standards decrease due to population growth. So yes, they would actually prefer a recession.

For TGD's benefit, economists acknowledge quite openly the limits of GDP as a measure of real wealth. My macroeconomics lecturer went through all sorts of ways in which it can fail to measure declining productivity and declining living standards. No-one who has actually studied economics says the things that you do. Unless they studied it at the CCP institute for anti-western propaganda. As the OP demonstrates, journalists do often miss the point completely. Don't confuse the two. Economists have gone to greater effort than any other profession to inform journalists and the public about the reality of what they teach. They need to, because communists like you and people who think intuition is a substitute for understanding (The Greens) always get the economics backwards.

FD,

Quote:

He also says: Australians who oppose immigration might want to reflect on whether they would prefer a recession. Hence, he misses the point. A recession in which living standards increase due to population decline is preferable to economic growth in which living standards decrease due to population growth. So yes, they would actually prefer a recession.

I agree with you - let's have a recession - our standard of living per capita would go up.

Looks like people can't afford gourmet food anymore:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13815425/King-Island-Dairy-close-tasmania-cheese.html



BREAKING NEWS        King Island Dairy to close down after 120 years

    Owner Saputo announced closure on Thursday

    Close to 60 staff will be impacted

   
By Eliza Mcphee For Daily Mail Australia and Ethan James For Australian Associated Press

Published: 15:09 AEST, 5 September 2024 | Updated: 15:38 AEST, 5 September 2024


A beloved cheese producer has been forced to close after 120 years, with 58 staff now left in limbo.

Tasmania's King Island Dairy will close up shop mid next year, Canadian owner Saputo announced on Thursday.

The future of the business had been under a cloud for 10 months after Saputo launched a strategic review of the facility.

King Island Dairy operations began in the early 1900s and is one of the biggest employers in the island which holds about 1,600 people.

Saputo chief operating officer Leanne Cutts said the decision to wind up the business was difficult.

She said 'every possible option' had been reviewed but closure was the most viable way to strengthen Saputo's competitiveness in a changing market.

'As King Island Dairy's historic roots are deeply embedded in the region, it was hoped the strategic review would identify a potential buyer for the facility,' Ms Cutts said.

'It is a unique brand, with a plant that is nearly 100 years old.


https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/09/05/06/89297771-13815425-image-a-10_1725513295595.jpg

Old plants are not productive.

A 100-year-old plant uses 100-year-old technology. Some of the workers are probably 100 years old.

It should have modernized 80 years ago and then modernized regularly.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 5^th, 2024 at 5:29pm:

Old plants are not productive. A 100-year-old plant uses 100-year-old technology. Some of the workers are probably 100 years old. It should have modernized 80 years ago and then modernized regularly.

I liked all the King Island cheese but it was very expensive.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/09/05/06/89298261-0-image-m-6_1725514067371.jpg

King Island cheese is around $74 per kilo:


https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/search/products?searchTerm=cheese%20king%20island

Bobby. wrote on Sep 6^th, 2024 at 6:33am:

King Island cheese is around $74 per kilo: https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/search/products?searchTerm=cheese%20king%20island

Bobby is obviously cheesed off.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 5^th, 2024 at 4:32pm:

FD, Quote: He also says: Australians who oppose immigration might want to reflect on whether they would prefer a recession. Hence, he misses the point. A recession in which living standards increase due to population decline is preferable to economic growth in which living standards decrease due to population growth. So yes, they would actually prefer a recession. I agree with you - let's have a recession - our standard of living per capita would go up.

Funny....  but indeed Australian's standard of living is falling, even though gdp is increasing.

Alan Kohler is asking how Oz can reverse the trend, given  the failure of mainstream economists to equip politicians with the tools to maintain productivity.

https://www.thenewdaily.com.au/finance/2024/09/02/alan-kohler-australia-prosperity?ahe=569051b3c7a3e63504954a128919e287aa6299173e9ad7446bdf40dba722bf70&acid=444071&utm_campaign=Morning%20News%20-%2020240902&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Adestra&lr_hash=556587cb25c6d1cd9fb9761f18eaefca

Alan explores the consequences of US resistance to the China export-based development model which proved so successful for China 1990 to 2016 (until the Trump tariffs on China)  - and also Oz which supplied the raw materials enabling China to become the world's factory.

That is now under pressure; China's reliance on exports plus real estate for development, is over; and likewise Oz's reliance on China's imports of Oz iron ore and coal is also under pressure.

And FD thinks mainstream economists know what they are talking about......

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 6^th, 2024 at 11:28am:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 5th, 2024 at 4:32pm: FD, Quote: He also says: Australians who oppose immigration might want to reflect on whether they would prefer a recession. Hence, he misses the point. A recession in which living standards increase due to population decline is preferable to economic growth in which living standards decrease due to population growth. So yes, they would actually prefer a recession. I agree with you - let's have a recession - our standard of living per capita would go up. Funny....  but indeed Australian's standard of living is falling, even though gdp is increasing. Alan Kohler is asking how Oz can reverse the trend, given  the failure of mainstream economists to equip politicians with the tools to maintain productivity. https://www.thenewdaily.com.au/finance/2024/09/02/alan-kohler-australia-prosperity?ahe=569051b3c7a3e63504954a128919e287aa6299173e9ad7446bdf40dba722bf70&acid=444071&utm_campaign=Morning%20News%20-%2020240902&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Adestra&lr_hash=556587cb25c6d1cd9fb9761f18eaefca Alan explores the consequences of US resistance to the China export-based development model which proved so successful for China 1990 to 2016 (until the Trump tariffs on China)  - and also Oz which supplied the raw materials enabling China to become the world's factory. That is now under pressure; China's reliance on exports plus real estate for development, is over; and likewise Oz's reliance on China's imports of Oz iron ore and coal is also under pressure. And FD thinks mainstream economists know what they are talking about......

I do. I don't think you have a clue what they are saying. All you know is what your CCP pamphlet tells you they are saying.

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2024 at 12:30pm:

ll you know is what your CCP pamphlet tells you they are saying.

FleaDriver's Mossad propaganda pamphlet trumps other propaganda pamphlets.

freediver wrote on Sep 5^th, 2024 at 4:05pm:

TGD:Mainstream flat-earth economists say population increase increases demand and consumption, and hence GDP. It does. But like the author, you completely miss the point.

Which is...?


Quote:

Why? Because they tell the same truth that you do? You are inventing a strawman, so tell us what it is.

Typical FD confusion and obfuscation: mainstream neoclassical economists DON'T "tell the same truth as I do"; commonsense tells us there is no shortage of resources in our modern AI and IT economies which are a barrier  to enabling increasing common  prosperity - the barriers are political,  NOT economic.

Note: you will have to tell us what the "stawman" is, before I can tell you what it is ......


Quote:

"This means this measure of living standards has been falling for 18 months –"

Which is true - the question is: why is it so? There has been no loss of  resources in Oz - despite the fact we plan to IMPORT gas - more political madness driven by neoclassical dunderheads who have zombified politicians' brains. 


Quote:

Hence, he misses the point. A recession in which living standards increase due to population decline is preferable to economic growth in which living standards decrease due to population growth. So yes, they would actually prefer a recession.

More narrative resulting from confused flat-earth neoclassical mainstream dogmas (and your zombified brain):

1.  if living standards increase, there is no "recession" worth the name, regardless of whether the population is increasing or decreasing

2. economic growth which relies on population growth alone is unsustainable.


Quote:

For TGD's benefit, economists acknowledge quite openly the limits of GDP as a measure of real wealth. My macroeconomics lecturer went through all sorts of ways in which it can fail to measure declining productivity and declining living standards. No-one who has actually studied economics says the things that you do.

Funny - the above is exactly what I am saying.

But what your 'macroeconomics' lecturer DIDN'T do was explain how governments can mobilize the nation's resources to achieve continuous increase in living standards, regardless of population growth rates.

Deplorable dummy that he was. 


Quote:

Unless they studied it at the CCP institute for anti-western propaganda.

Back to front again: the CCP is mostly listening to its  Western-trained flat-earth neoclassical economists in charge of the PBofC, which is why China - even with its vast internal market - is suffering a marked slowdown in (real) economic growth (while Yellen is accusing China of industrial "over-capacity") because of US 'decoupling' efforts.   


Quote:

As the OP demonstrates, journalists do often miss the point completely.

You're not kidding.  They are hooked on mainstream 'balanced budget' insanity, thinking the currency-issuing government's budget is subject to the same restrictions as their own household budgets. And the mainstream neoclassical fools Bullock and 'Doctor' Chalmers are playing their silly "you are responsible" games - on their fat salaries, while Oz living standards are falling.


Quote:

Don't confuse the two. Economists have gone to greater effort than any other profession to inform journalists and the public about the reality of what they teach.

No kidding; the flat-earthers have fooled most of us (including you)...


Quote:

They need to, because communists like you and people who think intuition is a substitute for understanding (The Greens) always get the economics backwards.

That's the wrong reason why economists have "gone to all that effort"; not to mention economists are divided; eg the AI's Richard Dennis supports  Green's policies (ie high taxes to support necessary government spending).

The real reason is they can't admit all that hard work at uni was based on obsolete economic fallacies re 'scarcity in the face of unlimited wants', the basis of neoclassical theory. 

There are different causes of decreases in living standards just as there are different types of recessions.

My untrained view of Australians more recent decreases in living standards revolves mainly around inflation, including the never even mentioned in child-like financial reporting, existence of compounding inflation.

More than any losses experienced via interest rate rises alone is the cost of inflationary pricing affecting every good and service above income increases, particularly for the poorest.

The biggest effects for these people are the inflationary movements of basic food and shelter, mostly caused by inflationary pressures.

High inflation is the single biggest driver of loss of living standards in this country ATM STILL. We fell behind the rest of the world in raising rates and have continued to pay the consequent elongated inflation costs of every good and service. Most fail to truly grasp the permanency of those losses.
Even moving into depreciation of 50% does not ever regain the purchasing power loss (and consequent living standard loss) of the prior 100% inflation etc etc. These losses become baked into society and very difficult and extremely long term to ever actually regain.

High inflation is THE ENEMY of successful economies and living standards. I don't care if we go into a small recession and low percentage job losses via lifting rates to tame it.
I am frankly tired of the likes of Kohler whom has lost the ability in his old age (if he ever really had it) to move outside sheer share market evaluation in reality.

goosecat wrote on Sep 6^th, 2024 at 3:16pm:

There are different causes of decreases in living standards just as there are different types of recessions. My untrained view of Australians more recent decreases in living standards revolves mainly around inflation, including the never even mentioned in child-like financial reporting existence of compounding inflation. More than any losses experienced via interest rate rises alone is the cost of inflationary pricing affecting every good and service above income increases, particularly for the poorest. The biggest effects for these people are the inflationary movements of basic food and shelter, mostly caused by inflationary pressures. High inflation is the single biggest driver of loss of living standards in this country ATM STILL. We fell behind the rest of the world in raising rates and have continued to pay the consequent elongated inflation costs of every good and service. Most fail to truly grasp the permanency of those losses. Even moving into depreciation of 50% does not ever regain the purchasing power loss (and consequent living standard loss) of the prior 100% inflation etc etc. These losses become backed into society and very difficult and extremely long term to ever actually regain. High inflation is THE ENEMY of successful economies and living standards. I don't care if we go into a small recession and low percentage job losses via lifting rates to tame it. I am frankly tired of the likes of Kohler whom has lost the ability in his old age to move outside sheer share market evaluation in reality.

And today:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-05/rba-michele-bullock-more-australians-seeking-help-cost-of-living/104313588


More people are seeking help as Australia's economy slows down, RBA governor acknowledges
By business reporter Gareth Hutchens

    Topic:Money and Monetary Policy

Thu 5 Sep


Fight against inflation will take years

Ms Bullock made her comments in a speech to the Anika Foundation in Sydney on Thursday afternoon.

Her speech had the title: The Costs of High Inflation.


The economy grew by 0.2 per cent in the June quarter, and by just 1 per cent over the last year, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS).

The severe slowdown in economic activity occurred after the Reserve Bank lifted interest rates 13 times since mid-2022 to squeeze high inflation out of the economy.

Underlying inflation is currently running at an annual pace of 3.8 per cent, which is still above the RBA's target of 2.5 per cent.

On Thursday, Ms Bullock said if the engineered economic slowdown kept tracking as the RBA anticipated, inflation could be sitting around 2.5 per cent by the end of 2026.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 6^th, 2024 at 3:22pm:

goosecat wrote on Sep 6th, 2024 at 3:16pm: There are different causes of decreases in living standards just as there are different types of recessions. My untrained view of Australians more recent decreases in living standards revolves mainly around inflation, including the never even mentioned in child-like financial reporting existence of compounding inflation. More than any losses experienced via interest rate rises alone is the cost of inflationary pricing affecting every good and service above income increases, particularly for the poorest. The biggest effects for these people are the inflationary movements of basic food and shelter, mostly caused by inflationary pressures. High inflation is the single biggest driver of loss of living standards in this country ATM STILL. We fell behind the rest of the world in raising rates and have continued to pay the consequent elongated inflation costs of every good and service. Most fail to truly grasp the permanency of those losses. Even moving into depreciation of 50% does not ever regain the purchasing power loss (and consequent living standard loss) of the prior 100% inflation etc etc. These losses become backed into society and very difficult and extremely long term to ever actually regain. High inflation is THE ENEMY of successful economies and living standards. I don't care if we go into a small recession and low percentage job losses via lifting rates to tame it. I am frankly tired of the likes of Kohler whom has lost the ability in his old age to move outside sheer share market evaluation in reality. And today: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-05/rba-michele-bullock-more-australians-seeking-help-cost-of-living/104313588 More people are seeking help as Australia's economy slows down, RBA governor acknowledges By business reporter Gareth Hutchens     Topic:Money and Monetary Policy Thu 5 Sep Fight against inflation will take years Ms Bullock made her comments in a speech to the Anika Foundation in Sydney on Thursday afternoon. Her speech had the title: The Costs of High Inflation. The economy grew by 0.2 per cent in the June quarter, and by just 1 per cent over the last year, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS). The severe slowdown in economic activity occurred after the Reserve Bank lifted interest rates 13 times since mid-2022 to squeeze high inflation out of the economy. Underlying inflation is currently running at an annual pace of 3.8 per cent, which is still above the RBA's target of 2.5 per cent. On Thursday, Ms Bullock said if the engineered economic slowdown kept tracking as the RBA anticipated, inflation could be sitting around 2.5 per cent by the end of 2026.

It's too long.
These living standard losses through inflation will take lucky decades to and may never, be recovered. Continual repetitive income increases above inflation (any guesses on that happening lol) and or big productivity and technology improvements are the only way really to get those losses back. That takes years/decades.
People just don't realise the almost permanent nature of inflationary living standard losses for societies. They are baked in and the longer it goes, the worse the reality.

goosecat wrote on Sep 6^th, 2024 at 3:55pm:

It's too long. These living standard losses through inflation will take lucky decades to and may never, be recovered. Continual repetitive income increases above inflation (any guesses on that happening lol) and or big productivity and technology improvements are the only way really to get those losses back. That takes years/decades. People just don't realise the almost permanent nature of inflationary living standard losses for societies. They are baked in and the longer it goes, the worse the reality.

Each successive Govt. spends more than they receive in taxes.
We are going into more and more debt.

Australian debt clock:
http://australiandebtclock.com.au/

Federal debt -  $1.2 trillion.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 6^th, 2024 at 4:34pm:

goosecat wrote on Sep 6th, 2024 at 3:55pm: It's too long. These living standard losses through inflation will take lucky decades to and may never, be recovered. Continual repetitive income increases above inflation (any guesses on that happening lol) and or big productivity and technology improvements are the only way really to get those losses back. That takes years/decades. People just don't realise the almost permanent nature of inflationary living standard losses for societies. They are baked in and the longer it goes, the worse the reality. Each successive Govt. spends more than they receive in taxes. We are going into more and more debt.

Correct.


Quote:

Australian debt clock: http://australiandebtclock.com.au/ Federal debt -  $1.2 trillion.

Guess what: the federal government's debt is actually the private sector's savings, ie, the government didn't tax back enough to erase the government debt, as you coreectly stated above.

If the government tried to tax the debt back, guess what would happen to private sector savings (household wealth)?

goosecat wrote on Sep 6^th, 2024 at 3:55pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 6th, 2024 at 3:22pm: goosecat wrote on Sep 6th, 2024 at 3:16pm: There are different causes of decreases in living standards just as there are different types of recessions. My untrained view of Australians more recent decreases in living standards revolves mainly around inflation, including the never even mentioned in child-like financial reporting existence of compounding inflation. More than any losses experienced via interest rate rises alone is the cost of inflationary pricing affecting every good and service above income increases, particularly for the poorest. The biggest effects for these people are the inflationary movements of basic food and shelter, mostly caused by inflationary pressures. High inflation is the single biggest driver of loss of living standards in this country ATM STILL. We fell behind the rest of the world in raising rates and have continued to pay the consequent elongated inflation costs of every good and service. Most fail to truly grasp the permanency of those losses. Even moving into depreciation of 50% does not ever regain the purchasing power loss (and consequent living standard loss) of the prior 100% inflation etc etc. These losses become backed into society and very difficult and extremely long term to ever actually regain. High inflation is THE ENEMY of successful economies and living standards. I don't care if we go into a small recession and low percentage job losses via lifting rates to tame it. I am frankly tired of the likes of Kohler whom has lost the ability in his old age to move outside sheer share market evaluation in reality. And today: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-05/rba-michele-bullock-more-australians-seeking-help-cost-of-living/104313588 More people are seeking help as Australia's economy slows down, RBA governor acknowledges By business reporter Gareth Hutchens     Topic:Money and Monetary Policy Thu 5 Sep Fight against inflation will take years Ms Bullock made her comments in a speech to the Anika Foundation in Sydney on Thursday afternoon. Her speech had the title: The Costs of High Inflation. The economy grew by 0.2 per cent in the June quarter, and by just 1 per cent over the last year, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS). The severe slowdown in economic activity occurred after the Reserve Bank lifted interest rates 13 times since mid-2022 to squeeze high inflation out of the economy. Underlying inflation is currently running at an annual pace of 3.8 per cent, which is still above the RBA's target of 2.5 per cent. On Thursday, Ms Bullock said if the engineered economic slowdown kept tracking as the RBA anticipated, inflation could be sitting around 2.5 per cent by the end of 2026. It's too long. These living standard losses through inflation will take lucky decades to and may never, be recovered. Continual repetitive income increases above inflation (any guesses on that happening lol) and or big productivity and technology improvements are the only way really to get those losses back. That takes years/decades. People just don't realise the almost permanent nature of inflationary living standard losses for societies. They are baked in and the longer it goes, the worse the reality.

All good points made by 'goosecat'.

...except the comment re Alan Kohler, who knows government deficits and debts per se are not necessarily inflationary, excessive real purchasing power (beyond the productive capacity of the economy) IS inflationary.

So - how to restrain excessive purchasing power  without the blunt tool of interest rate rises which harm the least well off, that is the question.   

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 6^th, 2024 at 12:41pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2024 at 4:05pm: TGD:Mainstream flat-earth economists say population increase increases demand and consumption, and hence GDP. It does. But like the author, you completely miss the point. Which is...?

They don't all say it is a good thing. That is an assumption made by some journalists and communist propagandists.

The broader point is that you have no clue what mainstream economics says.

freediver wrote on Sep 7^th, 2024 at 1:03pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 6th, 2024 at 12:41pm: freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2024 at 4:05pm: TGD:Mainstream flat-earth economists say population increase increases demand and consumption, and hence GDP. It does. But like the author, you completely miss the point. Which is...? They don't all say it is a good thing. That is an assumption made by some journalists and communist propagandists.

You mean economists with their "well established principles" are divided? Note:  your first sentence contradicts the second.

FYI the mainstream want continuous growth; they along with uni chancellors, want inceasing overseas students...and contibuing high immigration, regardles of the downsides. (Eslake wants "highly skilled immigation" ie stealing talent from the rest of the world.  Nice). 


Quote:

The broader point is that you have no clue what mainstream economics says.

To repeat the mainstream neoclassical dogma:

Economcs studies the  distribution of 'limited' resources in the face of 'unlimted wants'.

It's obsolete BS; there is no REAL shortage of essential resources in our modern AI and IT production systems.

Only the 'gimme more' of greedy conservatives.   

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 7^th, 2024 at 11:36am:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 6th, 2024 at 4:34pm: goosecat wrote on Sep 6th, 2024 at 3:55pm: It's too long. These living standard losses through inflation will take lucky decades to and may never, be recovered. Continual repetitive income increases above inflation (any guesses on that happening lol) and or big productivity and technology improvements are the only way really to get those losses back. That takes years/decades. People just don't realise the almost permanent nature of inflationary living standard losses for societies. They are baked in and the longer it goes, the worse the reality. Each successive Govt. spends more than they receive in taxes. We are going into more and more debt. Correct. Quote: Australian debt clock: http://australiandebtclock.com.au/ Federal debt -  $1.2 trillion. Guess what: the federal government's debt is actually the private sector's savings, ie, the government didn't tax back enough to erase the government debt, as you coreectly stated above. If the government tried to tax the debt back, guess what would happen to private sector savings (household wealth)?

It's got too far out of control now -
I don't think anyone knows what to do.
They could start by halving public servant wages?

Plenty of public servants on $1 million or more per year.
Cancel AUKUS?

How can we afford AUKUS?.  What on earth were they thinking?.   :(

whiteknight wrote on Sep 7^th, 2024 at 3:24pm:

How can we afford AUKUS?.  What on earth were they thinking?.   :(

It was worked out on the back of a beer coaster at a pub in Canberra.

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 7^th, 2024 at 11:48am:

goosecat wrote on Sep 6th, 2024 at 3:55pm: Bobby. wrote on Sep 6th, 2024 at 3:22pm: goosecat wrote on Sep 6th, 2024 at 3:16pm: There are different causes of decreases in living standards just as there are different types of recessions. My untrained view of Australians more recent decreases in living standards revolves mainly around inflation, including the never even mentioned in child-like financial reporting existence of compounding inflation. More than any losses experienced via interest rate rises alone is the cost of inflationary pricing affecting every good and service above income increases, particularly for the poorest. The biggest effects for these people are the inflationary movements of basic food and shelter, mostly caused by inflationary pressures. High inflation is the single biggest driver of loss of living standards in this country ATM STILL. We fell behind the rest of the world in raising rates and have continued to pay the consequent elongated inflation costs of every good and service. Most fail to truly grasp the permanency of those losses. Even moving into depreciation of 50% does not ever regain the purchasing power loss (and consequent living standard loss) of the prior 100% inflation etc etc. These losses become backed into society and very difficult and extremely long term to ever actually regain. High inflation is THE ENEMY of successful economies and living standards. I don't care if we go into a small recession and low percentage job losses via lifting rates to tame it. I am frankly tired of the likes of Kohler whom has lost the ability in his old age to move outside sheer share market evaluation in reality. And today: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-05/rba-michele-bullock-more-australians-seeking-help-cost-of-living/104313588 More people are seeking help as Australia's economy slows down, RBA governor acknowledges By business reporter Gareth Hutchens     Topic:Money and Monetary Policy Thu 5 Sep Fight against inflation will take years Ms Bullock made her comments in a speech to the Anika Foundation in Sydney on Thursday afternoon. Her speech had the title: The Costs of High Inflation. The economy grew by 0.2 per cent in the June quarter, and by just 1 per cent over the last year, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS). The severe slowdown in economic activity occurred after the Reserve Bank lifted interest rates 13 times since mid-2022 to squeeze high inflation out of the economy. Underlying inflation is currently running at an annual pace of 3.8 per cent, which is still above the RBA's target of 2.5 per cent. On Thursday, Ms Bullock said if the engineered economic slowdown kept tracking as the RBA anticipated, inflation could be sitting around 2.5 per cent by the end of 2026. It's too long. These living standard losses through inflation will take lucky decades to and may never, be recovered. Continual repetitive income increases above inflation (any guesses on that happening lol) and or big productivity and technology improvements are the only way really to get those losses back. That takes years/decades. People just don't realise the almost permanent nature of inflationary living standard losses for societies. They are baked in and the longer it goes, the worse the reality. All good points made by 'goosecat'. ...except the comment re Alan Kohler, who knows government deficits and debts per se are not necessarily inflationary, excessive real purchasing power (beyond the productive capacity of the economy) IS inflationary. So - how to restrain excessive purchasing power  without the blunt tool of interest rate rises which harm the least well off, that is the question.

I wasn't referring to Kohlers opinion of gov debt, which I should have made clear.
I was referring to his constant whinging regarding interest rate rises, RBA and GDP growth reduction.

I know his mindset; He sees these realities through a share-market investment lens centred on GDP growth being good for business and share prices generally.
He was one of many investor "experts" whinging and predicting absolute economic death and share market loses if the RBA kept raising rates back when we were still in the 2% range.

You need to be able to understand his personal bias to one particular narrow thought process that he at various times tries to expand on for media career sake, but habitually falls back into as his economic measuring stick for all things.

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 7^th, 2024 at 1:24pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 7th, 2024 at 1:03pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 6th, 2024 at 12:41pm: freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2024 at 4:05pm: TGD:Mainstream flat-earth economists say population increase increases demand and consumption, and hence GDP. It does. But like the author, you completely miss the point. Which is...? They don't all say it is a good thing. That is an assumption made by some journalists and communist propagandists. You mean economists with their "well established principles" are divided?

Not on matters of economics. At least not with the fundamentals. But they don't all like the same breakfast cereal. This is all made very clear in an introductory economics course. Particularly a macroeconomics one - because it is a mistake so often made by people pretending to understand economics.

goosecat wrote on Sep 7^th, 2024 at 4:06pm:

I wasn't referring to Kohlers opinion of gov debt, which I should have made clear. I was referring to his constant whinging regarding interest rate rises, RBA and GDP growth reduction.

Kohler is thoroughly acquainted with MMT, (including personally communicating with prof. Bill Mitchell, a leading heterodox economist), and even presented key MMT propositions in an article he published in 'The Australian' some years back when the GFC was threatening to destroy the global economy.

That's why he "whinges" about RBA monetary policy and
"GDP growth reduction" (not sure what you mean by that; even mainstream economists acknowledge the qualitative limitations re GDP.    


Quote:

I know his mindset; He sees these realities through a share-market investment lens centred on GDP growth being good for business and share prices generally.

He has changed his views since his contact with MMT; eg he knows a currency-issuing government can always defeat "bond vigilantes" if the nation remains productive, however large the national public debt. (eg, bond traders have been betting against the BofJ for ages (because of Japan's massive public debt), and keep losing their shirts).


Quote:

He was one of many investor "experts" whinging and predicting absolute economic death and share market loses if the RBA kept raising rates back when we were still in the 2% range.

And guess what: if in fact Lowe and now Bullock HAVE set in motion the processes that will "smash the economy"  (via >4% interest rates), share markets will crash.  But in any case, ordinary people (renters without savings and late-comer mortgagees ARE being smashed NOW by high interest rates which are supposed to contain inflation.


Quote:

You need to be able to understand his personal bias to one particular narrow thought process that he at various times tries to expand on for media career sake, but habitually falls back into as his economic measuring stick for all things.

Correct, so find out how Kohler's ideas are evolving eg
In 2020:

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/melbourne-saturdaymornings/alan-kohler-explains-modern-monetary-theory/12609134

It’s ok to print money: Alan Kohler

...written in 2020, at the start of the pandemic; since then, the resistance of the mainstream to MMT has seen Kohler cease his promotion of MMT, while still understanding that  debt is immaterial to a currency-issuer, so long as the nation's resources and productive capacity are sufficient.

His more recent view (in 2024)

https://www.thenewdaily.com.au/finance/2024/04/01/alan-kohler-monetary-theory

Alan Kohler: Modern Monetary Theory has become modern fiscal practice

A few years ago everybody was talking about Modern Monetary Theory, both ardently for and scornfully against, but nobody was doing it.

Now everybody is doing it but hardly anybody is talking about it, apart from American economist Stephanie Kelton, promoting a film on the subject.

Doing what, exactly? Governments are showing by their deeds that deficits and debt don’t matter.

Global government debt has hit a record high of $US82 trillion, more than double what it was before the GFC, and no sign of slowing since the end of the pandemic.

The world’s governments, in aggregate, haven’t managed a surplus for 20 years, and even then, it was small and brief.

MMT is not mentioned by name, but its prime heresy – that deficits don’t matter – has become gospel.

Australian Treasurer Jim Chalmers will soon announce his second surplus, but the government’s long-term forecasts show a return to deficits that last at least 10 years. If they thought it mattered, politically or economically, they wouldn’t.

In the United States the Congressional Budget Office is also projecting deficits forever, with endlessly rising government debt.

There is no serious objection to this, but there hasn’t been a mass public conversion to MMT, so what’s changed?

.......

But what Kohler doesn't say is public debt is still preached as an evil (by mainstream economists and mainstream media) to the vast unknowing electorate who think government debt is like their own household debt - which they want to pay-off ASAP; so in fact there IS "serious objection" - at least in the vast ignorant electorate - to the idea government debt doesn't matter.

See the complete Kohler article in the MMT thread:

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1645944963/960#969

#969i





 

TGD,

Quote:

MMT is not mentioned by name, but its prime heresy – that deficits don’t matter – has become gospel. Australian Treasurer Jim Chalmers will soon announce his second surplus, but the government’s long-term forecasts show a return to deficits that last at least 10 years. If they thought it mattered, politically or economically, they wouldn’t. In the United States the Congressional Budget Office is also projecting deficits forever, with endlessly rising government debt. There is no serious objection to this, but there hasn’t been a mass public conversion to MMT, so what’s changed?

It's scary isn't it?

freediver wrote on Sep 7^th, 2024 at 4:09pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 7th, 2024 at 1:24pm: freediver wrote on Sep 7th, 2024 at 1:03pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 6th, 2024 at 12:41pm: freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2024 at 4:05pm: TGD:Mainstream flat-earth economists say population increase increases demand and consumption, and hence GDP. It does. But like the author, you completely miss the point. Which is...? They don't all say it is a good thing. That is an assumption made by some journalists and communist propagandists. You mean economists with their "well established principles" are divided? Not on matters of economics. At least not with the fundamentals. But they don't all like the same breakfast cereal. This is all made very clear in an introductory economics course. Particularly a macroeconomics one - because it is a mistake so often made by people pretending to understand economics.

"Fundamentals" - as claimed by the current manstream guru Greg  Mankiw; here is what Steve Keen has to say (see latest MMT post) 

This makes economics degrees extremely powerful, as Paul Samuelson, the author of the first post-WWII textbook, which set the mould for all its successors, fully appreciated. In the preface to a teaching guide to his textbook, he wrote that:

"I don't care who writes a nation's laws--or crafts its advanced treaties--if I can write its economic textbooks." The first lick is a privileged one, impinging on the beginner's tabula rasa (lit. 'empty slate') at its most impressionable state.  (Samuelson 1990, p. ix)

The "first lick" in one of the dominant economics textbooks today—Greg Mankiw’s Macroeconomics {Mankiw, 2016 #6107}—is a model which teaches students that government spending is a bad thing.[/b]

After laying out the model in the previous 30 pages, Mankiw explains that, according to the model, an increase in government spending reduces investment:

Consider first the effects of an increase in government purchases …  The immediate impact is to increase the demand for goods and services… But because total output is fixed by the factors of production, the increase in government purchases must be met by a decrease in some other category of demand. Disposable income  … is unchanged, so consumption … is unchanged as well. Therefore, the increase in government purchases must be met by an equal decrease in investment.  (Mankiw 2016, p. 73)

Mankiw cautions that there are some “simplifying assumptions” in this model which are relaxed later—such as output being fixed. But this foundational model plants in students’ heads the idea that government spending—say, on giving pensioners additional money for heating during winter—will come at the expense of the future growth of the economy.

The removal of some assumptions in subsequent models doesn’t change the underlying proposition: government spending in excess of taxation harms the economy. This belief, etched on “the beginner's tabula rasa at its most impressionable state”, as Samuelson put it, is why Starmer and Reeves think that letting pensioners freeze will be good for the economy.

In reality, it won’t—not merely because the simplifying assumptions of this model are wrong, but because its fundamental assumptions about what government spending does, how it is financed, and the impact of government spending on private investment, are also wrong. I'll  explain why in the next post.

I already explained the obsolete concepts supporting  Mankiw's neoclassical orthodoxy.