Coalition’s nuclear energy plans a ‘fantasy’, Bowen says   :(

Sep 24, 2024
New Daily



The Coalition’s plan to build nuclear power plants backed by coal for Australia’s energy transition has been branded a fantasy stacked with misinformation.   

Energy Minister Chris Bowen has pilloried Opposition Leader Peter Dutton’s plan to build seven nuclear reactors across five states without releasing the details or cost of the proposal.


“They are treating the Australian people, quite frankly, with quite arrogant contempt,” Bowen told ABC Radio on Tuesday.

There had been “a very clear misunderstanding or misrepresentation by Peter Dutton about the respective energy mixes that are options for Australia”, he said.

Dutton argued Australia won’t meet its net-zero emissions target by 2050 without nuclear energy, as he slammed the cost of wind and solar energy in a speech to the Committee for Economic Development of Australia in Sydney on Monday.

Bowen said this ignored Australia’s wind and solar potential stemming from its unique geography and expert estimates about nuclear cost blowouts.


Gas would be used as a backstop as part of Labor’s plan and could be fired up with two minutes’ notice and not spew harmful emissions when it was not operating, he said.

This was in contrast to the opposition’s plan to extend the lifespan of Australia’s coal-fired plants, which were losing reliability as they aged and needed to run constantly when used as a backup, which was terrible for emissions, Bowen said.

“The biggest threat to reliability in our energy system now is coal-fired power stations,” he said.

“We haven’t had a day in the last year where we haven’t had an unexpected outage from a coal-fired power station. They don’t get more reliable as they get older.


“If you’re leaving those coal-fired power stations in the system while you waiting for the nuclear fantasy to come on board, then you are just engineering a recipe for unreliability and blackouts in our system.”

Dutton has criticised the reliability of wind and solar, saying Australia needed energy when the wind wasn’t blowing and the sun wasn’t shining.

Bowen said that was where batteries came in.

So a lifelong political apparatchik. And one who knows absolutely zero about energy.


whiteknight wrote on Sep 24^th, 2024 at 6:27pm:

Gas would be used as a backstop as part of Labor’s plan and could be fired up with two minutes’ notice and not spew harmful emissions when it was not operating, he said.

So there will be no warm up period just turn it on and ramp it up.  He doesn't know anything about lubrication of bearings. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


whiteknight wrote on Sep 24^th, 2024 at 6:27pm:

This was in contrast to the opposition’s plan to extend the lifespan of Australia’s coal-fired plants, which were losing reliability as they aged and needed to run constantly when used as a backup, which was terrible for emissions, Bowen said.

Except he can't provide any evidence of harmful emissions. ::)


whiteknight wrote on Sep 24^th, 2024 at 6:27pm:

“We haven’t had a day in the last year where we haven’t had an unexpected outage from a coal-fired power station. They don’t get more reliable as they get older.

.
And neither do renewables. They don't always work to their theoretical capacity factor, which is only about 30% of their nameplate capacity. And of course Wind turbines and solar panels age, and lose capacity.


whiteknight wrote on Sep 24^th, 2024 at 6:27pm:

“If you’re leaving those coal-fired power stations in the system while you waiting for the nuclear fantasy to come on board, then you are just engineering a recipe for unreliability and blackouts in our system.”

But nuclear doesn't need renewables as backup, and neither do coal plant. ;D ;D ;D ;D


whiteknight wrote on Sep 24^th, 2024 at 6:27pm:

Bowen said that was where batteries came in.

At what cost and at what MWh capacity? Something I have seen recentsly is 600MW batteries providing about 3 times the MWh. That is of course impssible. 1MW/hour is only 600h. 6MW/hour is only 100h.

"National essential power and communications infrastructure provider GenusPlus Group Ltd (ASX: GNP) (Genus or the Company) has, in joint venture with Samsung C&T Corporation, been awarded three contracts for the engineering, procurement, construction, and commissioning for the Balance of Plant scope and BESS installation for a 600MW/1,600MWh battery energy storage project for Phase 1 of the Melbourne Renewable Energy Hub (MREH) on a lump sum and turn-key basis."

https://announcements.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20231130/pdf/05y00vzcjl8hn2.pdf

I have an open mind on nuclear power. It's a serious concern that build times are so long, so by the time plants are commissioned they may be obsolete.

But I'm a bit cynical about renewable power. If it doesn't "bend the curve" upwards, and hits a lower limit of storage costs, and if demand continues to increase (not least because of electric cars) then we'll be talking about extending the lifetime of gas turbine AND coal plants.

We should invest now, to have the option of nuclear ten or fifteen years from now. If that turns out to be unnecessary, or if the plants are fully commissioned and fueled, but almost never used, then all we have lost is money.

Carbon reduction is the one imperative. We're taking economic risks by building wind turbines, so why not hedge also with nuclear power plants?

whiteknight wrote on Sep 24^th, 2024 at 6:27pm:

Coalition’s nuclear energy plans a ‘fantasy’, Bowen says   :( Sep 24, 2024 New Daily The Coalition’s plan to build nuclear power plants backed by coal for Australia’s energy transition has been branded a fantasy stacked with misinformation.    Energy Minister Chris Bowen has pilloried Opposition Leader Peter Dutton’s plan to build seven nuclear reactors across five states without releasing the details or cost of the proposal. “They are treating the Australian people, quite frankly, with quite arrogant contempt,” Bowen told ABC Radio on Tuesday. There had been “a very clear misunderstanding or misrepresentation by Peter Dutton about the respective energy mixes that are options for Australia”, he said. Dutton argued Australia won’t meet its net-zero emissions target by 2050 without nuclear energy, as he slammed the cost of wind and solar energy in a speech to the Committee for Economic Development of Australia in Sydney on Monday. Bowen said this ignored Australia’s wind and solar potential stemming from its unique geography and expert estimates about nuclear cost blowouts. Gas would be used as a backstop as part of Labor’s plan and could be fired up with two minutes’ notice and not spew harmful emissions when it was not operating, he said. This was in contrast to the opposition’s plan to extend the lifespan of Australia’s coal-fired plants, which were losing reliability as they aged and needed to run constantly when used as a backup, which was terrible for emissions, Bowen said. “The biggest threat to reliability in our energy system now is coal-fired power stations,” he said. “We haven’t had a day in the last year where we haven’t had an unexpected outage from a coal-fired power station. They don’t get more reliable as they get older. “If you’re leaving those coal-fired power stations in the system while you waiting for the nuclear fantasy to come on board, then you are just engineering a recipe for unreliability and blackouts in our system.” Dutton has criticised the reliability of wind and solar, saying Australia needed energy when the wind wasn’t blowing and the sun wasn’t shining.

The New Daily isn't a credible source it's greens bullshit.

Dutton is right we cannot achieve net zero with Bowens plan to burn gas.

We need something to power us when sun isn't shining and there is not enough wind for turbines like when people want to recharge electric cars at night.

Bowen still hasn't told us how much this renewable rubbish will cost.

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Australians sometimes copy the US in their contempt for France.

But France opted out of the Eurofighter program, and with a much smaller tax base built the Rafale fighter.

France is the world leader in nuclear reprocessing. If some greenie hadn't daringly put a RPG into France's fast reactor (before it was fueled up,) France would have completed the cycle from raw ingredients to reactors that burn their own waste.

France is the best (not the biggest) user of nuclear power, because government shares in private enterprise. This is a solid model (working in China for most industries.) Private enterprise provides the incentive to cut cost and increase profits, while the government stakeholder makes sure that cost cutting does not endanger the public.

We're not Americans or Japanese. We're certainly not Soviet Russians. We should be more like the French.

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 24^th, 2024 at 9:03pm:

Bowen still hasn't told us how much this renewable rubbish will cost.

I have an open mind on nuclear power.

But let's be honest that it's not cheap, and could be wasted money if renewables develop optimally.

The problem with renewables is of course consistency. They aren't necessarily available at peak demand. But there are two things about this: high demand industries like aluminium smelting, could fit themselves to supply. And secondly, we simply don't know what batteries ten years from now will be capable of.

A third of Iceland's exports are aluminium. They have no alum mines: it comes in by ship. They're adding value using their cheap renewable electricity. Their country is basically built on a volcano, but is Australia so different? We have huge amounts of sunshine. You work with what you've got.

Government green-lights three NSW coal mine extensions, angering environmental groups
By political reporters Isobel Roe and Tom Lowrey

The federal government has given the green light to three NSW coal mines, allowing them to extend their operations for another three to four decades.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-24/federal-government-approves-coal-mine-extensions/104391416


How is this better than adding nukes to the mix?

Captain Nemo wrote on Sep 25^th, 2024 at 12:37pm:

Government green-lights three NSW coal mine extensions, angering environmental groups By political reporters Isobel Roe and Tom Lowrey The federal government has given the green light to three NSW coal mines, allowing them to extend their operations for another three to four decades. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-24/federal-government-approves-coal-mine-extensions/104391416 How is this better than adding nukes to the mix?

Are you claiming that if we went nuclear we would no longer need coal?

John Smith wrote on Sep 25^th, 2024 at 1:22pm:

Are you claiming that if we went nuclear we would no longer need coal?

Why would you need two dispatchable energy sources, if one can do the job? Unless you feel coal has been unfairly vilified, or perhaps that they might ratchet up prices if nuclear is the only game in town?

John Smith wrote on Sep 25^th, 2024 at 1:22pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Sep 25th, 2024 at 12:37pm: Government green-lights three NSW coal mine extensions, angering environmental groups By political reporters Isobel Roe and Tom Lowrey The federal government has given the green light to three NSW coal mines, allowing them to extend their operations for another three to four decades. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-24/federal-government-approves-coal-mine-extensions/104391416 How is this better than adding nukes to the mix? Are you claiming that if we went nuclear we would no longer need coal?

I'm thinking that there would a larger reduction in GHG with nukes in the mix compared to prolonging coal-powered electricity.

Note:

The coal that moves through NCIG is predominantly high-energy low emissions (HELE) thermal coal, which is exported to international markets such as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, and India, where it is typically utilised by power stations for electricity generation.

Captain Nemo wrote on Sep 25^th, 2024 at 1:45pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 25th, 2024 at 1:22pm: Captain Nemo wrote on Sep 25th, 2024 at 12:37pm: Government green-lights three NSW coal mine extensions, angering environmental groups By political reporters Isobel Roe and Tom Lowrey The federal government has given the green light to three NSW coal mines, allowing them to extend their operations for another three to four decades. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-24/federal-government-approves-coal-mine-extensions/104391416 How is this better than adding nukes to the mix? Are you claiming that if we went nuclear we would no longer need coal? I'm thinking that there would a larger reduction in GHG with nukes in the mix compared to prolonging coal-powered electricity.

and long term, instead of only GHG's, we'd then also have to deal with centuries of radioactive waste ...

Nuclear won't stop the pollution of the atmosphere, it just sweeps the dirt under the rug until someone else has to deal with it at some point in the future.

John Smith wrote on Sep 25^th, 2024 at 1:53pm:

Nuclear won't stop the pollution of the atmosphere,

What pollution of the atmosphere? ::)

lee wrote on Sep 25^th, 2024 at 2:46pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 25th, 2024 at 1:53pm: Nuclear won't stop the pollution of the atmosphere, What pollution of the atmosphere? ::)

I know you think you're going to be clever by splitting hairs, but pollution is pollution, i don't give a rats arse what type it is.

John Smith wrote on Sep 25^th, 2024 at 3:00pm:

I know you think you're going to be clever by splitting hairs, but pollution is pollution, i don't give a rats arse what type it is.

So you admit to being a liar? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

https://images.sbs.com.au/85/10/814211d846c8a490a2b67b4305f4/proposed-nuclear-plant-map.jpg

lee wrote on Sep 25^th, 2024 at 3:03pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 25th, 2024 at 3:00pm: I know you think you're going to be clever by splitting hairs, but pollution is pollution, i don't give a rats arse what type it is. So you admit to being a liar? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

No, I only admitted that you were an idiot, the rest the result of your drug induced hallucinations

John Smith wrote on Sep 25^th, 2024 at 3:24pm:

No, I only admitted that you were an idiot, the rest the result of your drug induced hallucinations

And yet you clearly talked about atmospheric pollution of nuclear. So the idiot is you. A lying idiot. ::)

lee wrote on Sep 25^th, 2024 at 3:51pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 25th, 2024 at 3:24pm: No, I only admitted that you were an idiot, the rest the result of your drug induced hallucinations And yet you clearly talked about atmospheric pollution of nuclear. So the idiot is you. A lying idiot. ::)

or, you don't understand English. The more likely option.
It's OK, it's not your fault you're a bona fide idiot

As far as idiocy goes, I cede the floor to you. ;)

https://i.imgur.com/SjI5cO4.jpg