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General Discussion >> General Board >> Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
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Message started by whiteknight on Oct 17th, 2024 at 7:01am

Title: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by whiteknight on Oct 17th, 2024 at 7:01am
Australia's birth rate hits rock bottom with severe consequences for economic future

17 Oct 2024
ABC News

In short:
Australia's birth rate of 1.50 represents an all-time low.

Experts say younger Australians are increasingly concerned about their economic security and that's influencing their family planning decisions.

What's next?
Australia has bounced back from low fertility rates before in similar economic circumstances, and demographers say the nation can do it again.


There are warnings that Australia's birth rate — having hit a record low — is now at a critical level.

Bureau of Statistics figures show 286,998 births were registered in Australia in 2023, resulting in a total fertility rate of 1.50 babies per woman.

Australian National University demographer Liz Allen said the nation's birth rate is perilously low.

"We've hit rock bottom," she said.


Demographer Liz Allen says Australia is reaching the point of no return.

The Total Fertility Rate, or TFR, over the past 30 years has slowly dropped from 1.86 in 1993 to 1.5 in 2023.

The birth rate for girls and women aged 15 to 19 has fallen by more than two thirds over that period.

There's also been a large decline for women aged 20 to 24 years.

"We've got to a position where young people are saying now is inhospitable to having children," Dr Allen said.

"And young people are unlikely to achieve their desired family size.

"I'm not talking oodles and oodles of children — I'm talking a child, maybe a second one."

On the flipside, the fertility rate of women aged 40 to 44 years has almost doubled over the past 30 years.

Getting to the point of no return
Looking at the numbers overall, Dr Allen sees a big problem.

"What is so important about this particular number, 1.5, is that once we hit this figure we are basically staring down the barrel of no return," she said.

Dr Allen said the reason why dropping below a birth rate of 1.5 would make it so hard to come back up again was that having so few new babies coming through hampers economic growth, which in turn leads people to have even fewer babies.


Dr Allen says women are carefully considering how many children they have.

She described a "deep-seated attitudinal problem" facing millions of younger Australians.

Many, the demographer said, lack enthusiasm about the future, and that relates to their views on climate change, housing affordability and gender equality.

"Once we hit ultra-low fertility like say, for example, countries in our region, like South Korea, there is generally no return," Dr Allen said.

"We are not going to see a baby boom of the likes of Australia's post-World War II period because we don't have the necessary ingredients for a baby boom."

Affect on economic activity
Terry Rawnsley is an urban economist at accounting firm KPMG.

He agrees, and describes the fertility rate of 1.5 as a "dramatic number".

"If you look at the international data and you look at countries who have slipped below [a fertility rate of] 1.5 — places like Italy, South Korea, Japan — and in those countries you do start to have this demographic time bomb starting to go off," he said.


Terry Rawnsley says birth rates are an indicator of economic confidence. 

"There's less and less workers being able to generate economic activity, people start to leave the country due to a lack of economic opportunities, and you do start to have a slippery slope towards a declining population.

"So the 1.5 is a place we want to start having some real firm conversations about how we try to turn this number around, because I don't think we want to be pushing much below this in the longer term."

As for solutions to a critically low fertility rate, Mr Rawnsley said Australia had dug itself out of fertility holes before.

"When you look at the drop-off in the number of births, you have to go back to the early 1970s to find a drop of a similar size," he said.

"And that's during a period of very high inflation, an increasing unemployment rate during the 1970s, so there's a bit of a parallel towards that sort of 1970s drop-off and what we're seeing 50 years later."

Why women are choosing not to have babies

For decades, women in Australia have been told they should have more children for the good of the country, but  there's many reasons why more are choosing to stay child free.

Dr Allen pointed the finger squarely at governments, both state and federal.

"Change the language, have leadership that really signals positivity for the future, but at the heart of it, four main areas: housing affordability, economic security, and that really comes down to job security, gender equality and climate change," she said.

"Invest in those four policies."

Official figures show the median birth age of mothers has also now risen to 32.

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by whiteknight on Oct 17th, 2024 at 7:03am
Well if you cant afford to have children, then don't have them.   :(

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 17th, 2024 at 7:53am

whiteknight wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 7:01am:
17 Oct 2024
ABC News

In short:
Australia's birth rate of 1.50 represents an all-time low.

Is it any wonder that successive Australian governments are leveraging Australia's popularity to attract immigrants?

To comfortably sustain our standard of living, Australia's birthrate needs to be at least 2.1.

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by Bobby. on Oct 17th, 2024 at 7:58am
Childcare is $100 per day -

people can't afford $500 per week just for one kid.


Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 17th, 2024 at 8:29am

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 7:58am:
Childcare is $100 per day -

people can't afford $500 per week just for one kid.

So...

Immigration: the only salvation, then!

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by John Smith on Oct 17th, 2024 at 8:41am
It's all the fault of these frequent 'headaches'.

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by Laugh till you cry on Oct 17th, 2024 at 9:20am
Rock bottom was Grappler's date of birth.

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 17th, 2024 at 9:29am

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 8:41am:
It's all the fault of these frequent 'headaches'.

That, and so many Zoomers being terrified at the sight of their own genitals. (let alone other people's) - some even opting to have them cut off or stitched up...

Thank god for most Asian (apart from the Chinese) and African immigrants who at least haven't lost interest in having productive sex!

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by Laugh till you cry on Oct 17th, 2024 at 9:48am
Capitalism will rescue the world from human self-extermination.

When the returns are attractive, capitalists will invent gestation tanks and robotic care-givers, baby sitters, and teachers.

... or even male birth.

Women are damned if they procreate and damned if they don't.

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by tallowood on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:04am

whiteknight wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 7:03am:
Well if you cant afford to have children, then don't have them.   :(


Tell it to Indians and Nigerians




Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by John Smith on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:36am

tallowood wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:04am:
Tell it to Indians and Nigerians



they can't afford contraception and are often uneducated about birth control

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by tallowood on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:06am

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:36am:

tallowood wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:04am:
Tell it to Indians and Nigerians

they can't afford contraception and are often uneducated about birth control



Quote:
As per the report students in West Bengal's Durgapur have been buying condoms; but not for use as a contraceptive. And are instead using it as an intoxication!

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/93109610.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by Bobby. on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:17am

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:36am:

tallowood wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:04am:
Tell it to Indians and Nigerians



they can't afford contraception and are often uneducated about birth control



They are idiots.

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by Laugh till you cry on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:29am

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:17am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:36am:

tallowood wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:04am:
Tell it to Indians and Nigerians



they can't afford contraception and are often uneducated about birth control



They are idiots.


Australia is not short of idiots at all levels of politics, society, and business.

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by tallowood on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:49am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjJ4HtJYMPo

Woke Cambridge students attempt to cancel screening of film exploring worldwide declining birthrates.

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by Bobby. on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:56am

Laugh till you cry wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:29am:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:17am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:36am:

tallowood wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:04am:
Tell it to Indians and Nigerians



they can't afford contraception and are often uneducated about birth control



They are idiots.


Australia is not short of idiots at all levels of politics, society, and business.



Only animals and retarded idiots don't know that if you put it in you make babies.   ::)

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by Laugh till you cry on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:10pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:56am:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:29am:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:17am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:36am:

tallowood wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:04am:
Tell it to Indians and Nigerians



they can't afford contraception and are often uneducated about birth control



They are idiots.


Australia is not short of idiots at all levels of politics, society, and business.



Only animals and retarded idiots don't know that if you put it in you make babies.   ::)


It is a little more complex Bobby.

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by UnSubRocky on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:10pm
It might be time to give Labor the arse at next year's Federal election. I specifically remember Albanese saying in his electoral campaign that his Labor party was scrapping the regional development funding plan, in favour of renewing manufacturing jobs in metropolitan areas. I was surprised how well his scam artistry worked on the voters.

The only hold out states that voted Liberal National or Liberal Party overwhelmingly were rural and regional Qld, Western Australia, and South Australia. Rural and regional Victoria and (Western) Tasmania also voted against Albanese.

Scott Morrison, as much as I don't like the guy, won the first preference vote by about 450,000. He lost the Federal election in third party polling. Many city folk voted for the woke nonsense that Albanese spouted.

Given the fact that at least 75% of Australia's population live in metropolitan cities around Australia, it is a surprise that the Liberals and the Liberal National Party members did so well in a loss. However, with Albanese's Voice to Free Rides pitch meeting, during a time of what was an economic boom in Australia, Australia could afford having such an unnecessary referendum.

Much of the state election results in each electorate mirrored the results of the 2022 Federal election results in each electorate, for the Voice to Parliament. My electorate voted overwhelmingly 80% "No", that our electorate was near the top of the "No" vote results. Most indigenous residents of Rockhampton voted "No" as well.

Rockhampton has an indigenous population of about 7000 people (out of the 88,000 residents that were living in town here in the year 2022). They know the type of poo that would have befallen them, had that 61:39 result for the VtP been 49:51 in favour of implementing that bullshit racial favouritism. They would have been banned from pubs, clubs, sporting socials, and night spots the moment Albanese signed off the Voice to Parliament bill.

I reckon we would have seen Albanese hastily escorted off stage at a press conference, the moment he hypothetically talked about "racist rural and regional people" not understanding how tough it is for "First Nations" people to get jobs and education.

The birth rate in my town, and the region in general, is quite decent. However, these people are having trouble getting jobs down in Brisbane, the Gold Coast and other Labor Party strongholds, due to the employers down there having trouble adjusting to the applicants' interview style of being "old school" and "not ready to live in metropolitan lifestyles". But, the manufacturing industries still employ them in droves.

I know which electorates are the real "racists". They live at least 500km southeast of where I live.

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by John Smith on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:24pm

tallowood wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:06am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:36am:

tallowood wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:04am:
Tell it to Indians and Nigerians

they can't afford contraception and are often uneducated about birth control



Quote:
As per the report students in West Bengal's Durgapur have been buying condoms; but not for use as a contraceptive. And are instead using it as an intoxication!

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/93109610.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst


like i said, uneducated :D :D



Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by John Smith on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:25pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:17am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:36am:

tallowood wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:04am:
Tell it to Indians and Nigerians



they can't afford contraception and are often uneducated about birth control



They are idiots.


no, they're typically smarter than you. They're just uneducated

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by Bobby. on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:25pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:10pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:56am:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:29am:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:17am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:36am:

tallowood wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:04am:
Tell it to Indians and Nigerians



they can't afford contraception and are often uneducated about birth control



They are idiots.


Australia is not short of idiots at all levels of politics, society, and business.



Only animals and retarded idiots don't know that if you put it in you make babies.   ::)


It is a little more complex Bobby.



No it's not - it's that simple.

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by Bobby. on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:26pm

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:17am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:36am:

tallowood wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:04am:
Tell it to Indians and Nigerians



they can't afford contraception and are often uneducated about birth control



They are idiots.


no, they're typically smarter than you. They're just uneducated



You can't talk about education - you cockwomble -
you left school when you were 15 for being a dunce.    ::)


Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by UnSubRocky on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:28pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:56am:
Only animals and retarded idiots don't know that if you put it in you make babies.   ::)


Two of my currently 24 y.o. daughters were the product of the mothers having either marriage break-ups or being single at the time when I was around at their place.

Being 20 years old at the time, I thought I was lucky to have had a couple of women I knew from my time in high school going about flirting with me. Both were at least 5 years older than me. Both earned at least $50,000 a year more than I.

The first one decided to keep me warm in early July, after I passed out from half a bottle of bourbon. The other one kept me safe in November of that same, year. By my 21st birthday, my "borrowed, broken condom" nights of passion ended up costing me $900 in private school fees in the year 2014 for one of them. The second one said that she was not really divorced, and if I tell her husband, I "will be reported for being a rapist".

Two years later, her new husband called me to say that his wife wants another baby, and if he could watch, this time.

In 2003, baby number 3 was born.

It is a little more complex than that, Bobby.

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by Bobby. on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:30pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:28pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:56am:
Only animals and retarded idiots don't know that if you put it in you make babies.   ::)


Two of my currently 24 y.o. daughters were the product of the mothers having either marriage break-ups or being single at the time when I was around at their place.

Being 20 years old at the time, I thought I was lucky to have had a couple of women I knew from my time in high school going about flirting with me. Both were at least 5 years older than me. Both earned at least $50,000 a year more than I.

The first one decided to keep me warm in early July, after I passed out from half a bottle of bourbon. The other one kept me safe in November of that same, year. By my 21st birthday, my "borrowed, broken condom" nights of passion ended up costing me $900 in private school fees in the year 2014 for one of them. The second one said that she was not really divorced, and if I tell her husband, I "will be reported for being a rapist".

Two years later, her new husband called me to say that his wife wants another baby, and if he could watch, this time.

In 2003, baby number 3 was born.

It is a little more complex than that, Bobby.



Stop breeding more UnSubRockys.     ::)

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by UnSubRocky on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:32pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:26pm:
You can't talk about education - you cockwomble -
you left school when you were 15 for being a dunce.    ::)


My father left school when he was 15 years old. He thought it the best thing for him. He knew enough about the world that he could have wasted 2 more years in high school and not earned enough money to marry my mother.

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by John Smith on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:32pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:26pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:17am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:36am:

tallowood wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:04am:
Tell it to Indians and Nigerians



they can't afford contraception and are often uneducated about birth control



They are idiots.


no, they're typically smarter than you. They're just uneducated



You can't talk about education - you cockwomble -
you left school when you were 15 for being a dunce.    ::)


and that's why you'll forever be an idiot

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by UnSubRocky on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:33pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:30pm:
Stop breeding more UnSubRockys.     ::)


Stop reading Playgirl magazines, pretending to read up on new colognes, Bobby.

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by Bobby. on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:35pm

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:32pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:26pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:17am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:36am:

tallowood wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:04am:
Tell it to Indians and Nigerians



they can't afford contraception and are often uneducated about birth control



They are idiots.


no, they're typically smarter than you. They're just uneducated



You can't talk about education - you cockwomble -
you left school when you were 15 for being a dunce.    ::)


and that's why you'll forever be an idiot



IQ said you were kicked out of school for scribbling pictures of cocks
into text books in the library.   ::)


What a dunce.  ::)

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by Daves2017 on Oct 17th, 2024 at 1:20pm
https://www.savings.com.au/news/foodbank-hunger-report-2023#:~:text=More%20than%20a%20third%20of,crisis%2C%20a%20new%20report%20found

If you can’t afford food and struggling to find somewhere to live let alone pay for it on top of the rising costs of electricity, petrol, water, registration you can’t afford children.

People are surrendering their pets at record rates because they can’t afford feed and care for them.

Australia has never had so many politicians paid so much but have done so little for this country.

A pox on all of them!

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by John Smith on Oct 17th, 2024 at 1:56pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:35pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:32pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:26pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:17am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:36am:

tallowood wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:04am:
Tell it to Indians and Nigerians



they can't afford contraception and are often uneducated about birth control



They are idiots.


no, they're typically smarter than you. They're just uneducated



You can't talk about education - you cockwomble -
you left school when you were 15 for being a dunce.    ::)


and that's why you'll forever be an idiot



IQ said you were kicked out of school for scribbling pictures of cocks
into text books in the library.   ::)


What a dunce.  ::)



IQ also said you were gay.  ;D ;D

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by UnSubRocky on Oct 17th, 2024 at 2:05pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:35pm:
IQ said you were kicked out of school for scribbling pictures of cocks
into text books in the library.   ::)


What a dunce.  ::)


Not really for me to restate what I heard, with second-hand information.

However, is it true that you were willing to pay $5 a page for John's eclecticism artwork?

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by Bobby. on Oct 17th, 2024 at 2:21pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 2:05pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:35pm:
IQ said you were kicked out of school for scribbling pictures of cocks
into text books in the library.   ::)


What a dunce.  ::)


Not really for me to restate what I heard, with second-hand information.

However, is it true that you were willing to pay $5 a page for John's eclecticism artwork?



Very funny - John needs help.

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by Bobby. on Oct 17th, 2024 at 2:23pm

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 1:56pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:35pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:32pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:26pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 11:17am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:36am:

tallowood wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 10:04am:
Tell it to Indians and Nigerians



they can't afford contraception and are often uneducated about birth control



They are idiots.


no, they're typically smarter than you. They're just uneducated



You can't talk about education - you cockwomble -
you left school when you were 15 for being a dunce.    ::)


and that's why you'll forever be an idiot



IQ said you were kicked out of school for scribbling pictures of cocks
into text books in the library.   ::)


What a dunce.  ::)



IQ also said you were gay.  ;D ;D



He did not.

Now - is his story about your true?

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by John Smith on Oct 17th, 2024 at 3:13pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 2:23pm:
He did not.


Absolutely he did

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by UnSubRocky on Oct 17th, 2024 at 3:14pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 2:21pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 2:05pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:35pm:
IQ said you were kicked out of school for scribbling pictures of cocks
into text books in the library.   ::)


What a dunce.  ::)


Not really for me to restate what I heard, with second-hand information.

However, is it true that you were willing to pay $5 a page for John's eclecticism artwork?



Very funny - John needs help.


I doubt it. John can heckle you just fine, without me commenting.

Title: Re: Australia's Birth Rate Hits Rock Bottom
Post by John Smith on Oct 17th, 2024 at 3:26pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 2:05pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17th, 2024 at 12:35pm:
IQ said you were kicked out of school for scribbling pictures of cocks
into text books in the library.   ::)


What a dunce.  ::)


Not really for me to restate what I heard, with second-hand information.

However, is it true that you were willing to pay $5 a page for John's eclecticism artwork?


$5 was what I listed them at ... goober offered ten times that for each page :D :D

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