Trump is an isolationist and if he slaps tariffs on China as he has proposed that will have a detrimental effect on exporting our raw materials as demand slides and Australia will become an even bigger dumping ground for Chinese made products and plunge us further into debt , guess who will be picking up the tab from the revenue shortfall... the Aussie taxpayer

Labor majority government wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:06pm:

Trump is an isolationist ...

Also a rapist and convicted felon.

And Frank says he stole the election by rigging it.

His exact quote: "Of course it's rigged. Everyone knows it's rigged."

In this purported free trade world economy of no tariffs, where all the world benefits from no tariffs, have a guess how many countries actually have tariffs in place, right now?
Go on guess..............

The truth is, it's a crock of poo!!

If he slaps a 60% tariff on China as he has promised I'm fascinated how that can be good for Australia,  over to you guys

If Trump enacts tariffs inflation in US will rise

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 7:52am:

If Trump enacts tariffs inflation in US will rise

You've become a moron.


https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-action-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/13/politics/china-tariffs-biden-trump/index.html

Trump has also called for adding another tariff upward of 60% on all Chinese imports and said he would impose a “100% tariff” on countries that shift away from using the US dollar.

Literally from your link

Study after study, including one from the federal government’s bipartisan US International Trade Commission, have found that Americans have borne almost the entire cost of Trump’s tariffs on Chinese products.

From your link again

Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia?

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:25pm:

Labor majority government wrote on Nov 6th, 2024 at 10:06pm: Trump is an isolationist ... Also a rapist and convicted felon. And Frank says he stole the election by rigging it. His exact quote: "Of course it's rigged. Everyone knows it's rigged."

Everyone says hes the best at rigging elections.

Spot

Without tariffs our manufacturers are forced to compete
with China where they pay their workers a bowl of rice per day
and have no health and safety laws - which are expensive.

We couldn't do it and as a result we lost nearly all our manufacturing jobs in Australia.
Melbourne used to be a giant factory but it is no more.
Multi-nationals will go to another country to save just a few pennies per item they produce.
Factory after factory closed down here ever since the mid 1980s.

Not only that - China swamps the market with Govt. subsidized goods
if they are more expensive than their competitors.
It's called dumping and is done to destroy competitors.

That's why BHP closed most of their steel mills.
China also sold cheap but shoddy steel full of Boron that cracks
and Western countries made bridges out of it which will collapse.

Labor majority government wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:06pm:

Trump is an isolationist and if he slaps tariffs on China as he has proposed that will have a detrimental effect on exporting our raw materials as demand slides and Australia will become an even bigger dumping ground for Chinese made products and plunge us further into debt , guess who will be picking up the tab from the revenue shortfall... the Aussie taxpayer

It's almost impossible to have a genuine, good-faith discussion about his tariff plans, especially amid the triumphalism following Trump's win. But I'll give it a go.

The fundamental issues are twofold: either he doesn’t understand how tariffs function, or he does, and is banking on the fact that his supporters don’t, allowing him to mislead them for personal and political gain.

Tariffs can indeed play a role in shielding certain local industries from cheaper foreign imports. However, this isn't how he intends to use them.

Trump’s approach involves cutting corporate taxes and reducing taxes for high-income earners, funded by imposing blanket tariffs on all imports, with rates as high as 60% on Chinese imports. He suggests that foreign countries will shoulder these tariffs, offsetting the tax cuts for the wealthy.

But here’s the truth: it’s the American consumer, not China or any other exporting nation, who ultimately pays these tariffs. This strategy will lead to higher prices across the board, spiking inflation and pushing up interest rates.

And who bears the brunt of these price hikes? Trump's own base, largely working and middle-class Americans who will feel the impact most acutely. They'll be left footing the bill for tax breaks to the rich while paying more for almost everything they buy.

For a more thorough breakdown, it's explained well here:

https://youtu.be/rnALlc03O7o

This is what we can expect if Trump enacts his tariffs as he outlined before the election.

Of course, he might change course when it comes to implementation, but then, did people actually vote for that?

It seems to depend on whom you ask. For some, a vote or referendum simply means whatever they want it to mean.

Who cares about the reality, after all?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 7:52am:

If Trump enacts tariffs inflation in US will rise

Tariffs aren't the problem, it's how Trump wants to use them that is.

See previous post.

Gordon wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 8:13am:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-action-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/ https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/13/politics/china-tariffs-biden-trump/index.html

Thanks Gordon, that helps prove my point.

The problem isn't with tariffs as a tool used by the government.

The problem is how Trump intends to use them, or doesn't understand them, or both.

SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 12:06pm:

Labor majority government wrote on Nov 6th, 2024 at 10:06pm: Trump is an isolationist and if he slaps tariffs on China as he has proposed that will have a detrimental effect on exporting our raw materials as demand slides and Australia will become an even bigger dumping ground for Chinese made products and plunge us further into debt , guess who will be picking up the tab from the revenue shortfall... the Aussie taxpayer It's almost impossible to have a genuine, good-faith discussion about his tariff plans, especially amid the triumphalism following Trump's win. But I'll give it a go. The fundamental issues are twofold: either he doesn’t understand how tariffs function, or he does, and is banking on the fact that his supporters don’t, allowing him to mislead them for personal and political gain. Tariffs can indeed play a role in shielding certain local industries from cheaper foreign imports. However, this isn't how he intends to use them. Trump’s approach involves cutting corporate taxes and reducing taxes for high-income earners, funded by imposing blanket tariffs on all imports, with rates as high as 60% on Chinese imports. He suggests that foreign countries will shoulder these tariffs, offsetting the tax cuts for the wealthy. But here’s the truth: it’s the American consumer, not China or any other exporting nation, who ultimately pays these tariffs. This strategy will lead to higher prices across the board, spiking inflation and pushing up interest rates. And who bears the brunt of these price hikes? Trump's own base, largely working and middle-class Americans who will feel the impact most acutely. They'll be left footing the bill for tax breaks to the rich while paying more for almost everything they buy. For a more thorough breakdown, it's explained well here: https://youtu.be/rnALlc03O7o This is what we can expect if Trump enacts his tariffs as he outlined before the election. Of course, he might change course when it comes to implementation, but then, did people actually vote for that? It seems to depend on whom you ask. For some, a vote or referendum simply means whatever they want it to mean. Who cares about the reality, after all?

Your assumption is that
1. Americans will continue to buy Chinese rubbish even with 60% higher prices
2. Offshore American companies will prefer to pay the 60% extra, pass it on to their customers and stay offshore rather than return to America and avoid the tariff hike.

Gordon wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 8:13am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 7:52am: If Trump enacts tariffs inflation in US will rise You've become a moron. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-action-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/ https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/13/politics/china-tariffs-biden-trump/index.html

You're no Trump-man, Gordon, oh no. You're a staunch proponent of free trade, human movement, travel and - ahem - sex tourism.

We will make America great again, no?

Frank wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 2:15pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 12:06pm: Labor majority government wrote on Nov 6th, 2024 at 10:06pm: Trump is an isolationist and if he slaps tariffs on China as he has proposed that will have a detrimental effect on exporting our raw materials as demand slides and Australia will become an even bigger dumping ground for Chinese made products and plunge us further into debt , guess who will be picking up the tab from the revenue shortfall... the Aussie taxpayer It's almost impossible to have a genuine, good-faith discussion about his tariff plans, especially amid the triumphalism following Trump's win. But I'll give it a go. The fundamental issues are twofold: either he doesn’t understand how tariffs function, or he does, and is banking on the fact that his supporters don’t, allowing him to mislead them for personal and political gain. Tariffs can indeed play a role in shielding certain local industries from cheaper foreign imports. However, this isn't how he intends to use them. Trump’s approach involves cutting corporate taxes and reducing taxes for high-income earners, funded by imposing blanket tariffs on all imports, with rates as high as 60% on Chinese imports. He suggests that foreign countries will shoulder these tariffs, offsetting the tax cuts for the wealthy. But here’s the truth: it’s the American consumer, not China or any other exporting nation, who ultimately pays these tariffs. This strategy will lead to higher prices across the board, spiking inflation and pushing up interest rates. And who bears the brunt of these price hikes? Trump's own base, largely working and middle-class Americans who will feel the impact most acutely. They'll be left footing the bill for tax breaks to the rich while paying more for almost everything they buy. For a more thorough breakdown, it's explained well here: https://youtu.be/rnALlc03O7o This is what we can expect if Trump enacts his tariffs as he outlined before the election. Of course, he might change course when it comes to implementation, but then, did people actually vote for that? It seems to depend on whom you ask. For some, a vote or referendum simply means whatever they want it to mean. Who cares about the reality, after all? Your assumption is that 1. Americans will continue to buy Chinese rubbish even with 60% higher prices 2. Offshore American companies will prefer to pay the 60% extra, pass it on to their customers and stay offshore rather than return to America and avoid the tariff hike.

You're a Trump-man, old boy, but alas, it sounds like you don't get how tariffs work either, you poor old thing.

Offshore companies? Shurely shome mishtake.

Tariffs are an import tax. US companies and consumers pay tariffs when they do the unthinkable and buy cheaper (or better) products from places like jolly old Oz.

Take our lovely waving wheat. If Americans want to buy it, they can. We're not charging anybody a tax to do so, but that's just us.

Of course, you used to know all this before you became a Trump-man. You've voluntarily undergone a full lobotomy, you naughty old thing, and that's okay.

There wasn't much grey matter there to begin with, no?

Frank wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 2:15pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 12:06pm: Labor majority government wrote on Nov 6th, 2024 at 10:06pm: Trump is an isolationist and if he slaps tariffs on China as he has proposed that will have a detrimental effect on exporting our raw materials as demand slides and Australia will become an even bigger dumping ground for Chinese made products and plunge us further into debt , guess who will be picking up the tab from the revenue shortfall... the Aussie taxpayer It's almost impossible to have a genuine, good-faith discussion about his tariff plans, especially amid the triumphalism following Trump's win. But I'll give it a go. The fundamental issues are twofold: either he doesn’t understand how tariffs function, or he does, and is banking on the fact that his supporters don’t, allowing him to mislead them for personal and political gain. Tariffs can indeed play a role in shielding certain local industries from cheaper foreign imports. However, this isn't how he intends to use them. Trump’s approach involves cutting corporate taxes and reducing taxes for high-income earners, funded by imposing blanket tariffs on all imports, with rates as high as 60% on Chinese imports. He suggests that foreign countries will shoulder these tariffs, offsetting the tax cuts for the wealthy. But here’s the truth: it’s the American consumer, not China or any other exporting nation, who ultimately pays these tariffs. This strategy will lead to higher prices across the board, spiking inflation and pushing up interest rates. And who bears the brunt of these price hikes? Trump's own base, largely working and middle-class Americans who will feel the impact most acutely. They'll be left footing the bill for tax breaks to the rich while paying more for almost everything they buy. For a more thorough breakdown, it's explained well here: https://youtu.be/rnALlc03O7o This is what we can expect if Trump enacts his tariffs as he outlined before the election. Of course, he might change course when it comes to implementation, but then, did people actually vote for that? It seems to depend on whom you ask. For some, a vote or referendum simply means whatever they want it to mean. Who cares about the reality, after all? Your assumption is that 1. Americans will continue to buy Chinese rubbish even with 60% higher prices 2. Offshore American companies will prefer to pay the 60% extra, pass it on to their customers and stay offshore rather than return to America and avoid the tariff hike.

Trump has indicated he plans to implement new tariffs on Chinese goods if he is re-elected, starting on his first day back in office.

His proposed tariffs include an aggressive 60% rate on Chinese imports, which he argues will help revitalize American industries by reducing dependency on foreign manufacturing.

Trump is also considering a broad 10% tariff on all imports, aiming to encourage U.S. businesses to source products domestically.

The issue here is that you're assuming the U.S. will have the manufacturing capacity to replace all of China's output from day one of his presidency.

Are you truly suggesting that’s feasible?

It's simply unrealistic, and this miscalculation would force consumers to bear the cost of tariffs with no alternative.

Sure, it's one thing to protect domestic industries by first nurturing their growth, then implementing tariffs once local production is competitive and subsidies expire. But to introduce tariffs without any preparatory steps, essentially from day one, means that Americans would have no choice but to pay inflated prices.

Please tell me you recognise the flaw in this logic?

I’m willing to concede that despite much of what he's said at his rallies, he likely didn’t mean to start this on day one, which would be giving him more credit than he perhaps deserves. It would imply that he’s given serious thought to both the implications and mechanics of tariffs. But for the sake of argument, let’s assume he didn't mean day one.

Now, let’s consider: will Republicans support subsidies to build domestic manufacturing to rival China?

We saw how challenging it was for Biden to get the CHIPS and Science Act through Congress. Only a small group of Republicans supported it, with the majority firmly opposed. So, do you seriously believe the GOP will back substantial government funding for such industries?

Do you support government intervention to build up these industries before any tariffs are imposed?

Because let’s be clear, that approach is a little "socialist," isn’t it? The very same label thrown at Obamacare for its government-led framework.

Is that acceptable now?

And if not, how do tariffs not completely stuff over working Americans?

SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 3:05pm:

Trump has indicated he plans to implement new tariffs on Chinese goods if he is re-elected, starting on his first day back in office. His proposed tariffs include an aggressive 60% rate on Chinese imports, which he argues will help revitalize American industries by reducing dependency on foreign manufacturing.

Except on 'Made in China' Trump Bibles, I'm guessing...

Karnal wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 2:56pm:

You're a Trump-man, old boy, but alas, it sounds like you don't get how tariffs work either, you poor old thing. Offshore companies? Shurely shome mishtake. Tariffs are an import tax. US companies and consumers pay tariffs when they do the unthinkable and buy cheaper (or better) products from places like jolly old Oz. Take our lovely waving wheat. If Americans want to buy it, they can. We're not charging anybody a tax to do so, but that's just us.

Tariffs are not set by the sellers, stupid old Pakistani sniffer of pantaloons.

SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 3:05pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 2:15pm: Your assumption is that 1. Americans will continue to buy Chinese rubbish even with 60% higher prices 2. Offshore American companies will prefer to pay the 60% extra, pass it on to their customers and stay offshore rather than return to America and avoid the tariff hike. Trump has indicated he plans to implement new tariffs on Chinese goods if he is re-elected, starting on his first day back in office. His proposed tariffs include an aggressive 60% rate on Chinese imports, which he argues will help revitalize American industries by reducing dependency on foreign manufacturing. Trump is also considering a broad 10% tariff on all imports, aiming to encourage U.S. businesses to source products domestically. The issue here is that you're assuming the U.S. will have the manufacturing capacity to replace all of China's output from day one of his presidency. Are you truly suggesting that’s feasible? It's simply unrealistic, and this miscalculation would force consumers to bear the cost of tariffs with no alternative. Sure, it's one thing to protect domestic industries by first nurturing their growth, then implementing tariffs once local production is competitive and subsidies expire. But to introduce tariffs without any preparatory steps, essentially from day one, means that Americans would have no choice but to pay inflated prices. Please tell me you recognise the flaw in this logic? I’m willing to concede that despite much of what he's said at his rallies, he likely didn’t mean to start this on day one, which would be giving him more credit than he perhaps deserves. It would imply that he’s given serious thought to both the implications and mechanics of tariffs. But for the sake of argument, let’s assume he didn't mean day one. Now, let’s consider: will Republicans support subsidies to build domestic manufacturing to rival China? We saw how challenging it was for Biden to get the CHIPS and Science Act through Congress. Only a small group of Republicans supported it, with the majority firmly opposed. So, do you seriously believe the GOP will back substantial government funding for such industries? Do you support government intervention to build up these industries before any tariffs are imposed? Because let’s be clear, that approach is a little "socialist," isn’t it? The very same label thrown at Obamacare for its government-led framework. Is that acceptable now? And if not, how do tariffs not completely stuff over working Americans?

Let's not get bogged down on 'day one'.

Chinese trade practices are dishonest. Many, many countries have pointed this out over the years. Europeans also impose tariffs on goods with some glaringly unfair / dishonest  Chinese cheating.

Most Chinese industry has developed on the back of Western investment and Western companies shifting to China. China has exploited this, added masive industrial espionage and intellectual property theft and now has, due to thise dishonest practices, a massive trade surplus it uses to usurp Western and especially American global power and influence.
Very significantly, the rustbelts of the West suffered from shifting production to to China, a.k.a. 'globalisation'. The price the people of these rustbelt paid for globalisation has been too high - one reason they voted for Trump in droves.

Tariffs are a way to counter the CCP hoof on the trade scale.

Other dishonest practices will be countered with tariffs on Mexico, too. If they do not stop the tide of illegals pouring through Mexico, Trump will impose big punitive tariffs on Mexican goods. Has construction of a huge Chinese electric car manufacturing plant been put on hold in Mexico? Yes. Will Mexico do a lot more to stop the flow of ilkegals through its  territory. Yes.



As for Australia:
Australia-United States FTA

Gordon wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 8:13am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 7:52am: If Trump enacts tariffs inflation in US will rise You've become a moron. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-action-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/ https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/13/politics/china-tariffs-biden-trump/index.html

When demcraps put tariffs on China the left never say anything.

Anything Trump does is bad according to the left

Frank wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 3:31pm:

Let's not get bogged down on 'day one'.

I've already extended him that courtesy.


Quote:

Chinese trade practices are dishonest. Many, many countries have pointed this out over the years. Europeans also impose tariffs on goods with some glaringly unfair / dishonest  Chinese cheating. Most Chinese industry has developed on the back of Western investment and Western companies shifting to China. China has exploited this, added masive industrial espionage and intellectual property theft and now has, due to thise dishonest practices, a massive trade surplus it uses to usurp Western and especially American global power and influence. Very significantly, the rustbelts of the West suffered from shifting production to to China, a.k.a. 'globalisation'. The price the people of these rustbelt paid for globalisation has been too high - one reason they voted for Trump in droves. Tariffs are a way to counter the CCP hoof on the trade scale. Other dishonest practices will be countered with tariffs on Mexico, too. If they do not stop the tide of illegals pouring through Mexico, Trump will impose big punitive tariffs on Mexican goods. Has construction of a huge Chinese electric car manufacturing plant been put on hold in Mexico? Yes. Will Mexico do a lot more to stop the flow of ilkegals through its  territory. Yes.

So you're just going to ignore the rest?

To your original points,


Frank wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 2:15pm:

Your assumption is that 1. Americans will continue to buy Chinese rubbish even with 60% higher prices 2. Offshore American companies will prefer to pay the 60% extra, pass it on to their customers and stay offshore rather than return to America and avoid the tariff hike.

1. You're not addressing the lack of local options to purchase instead of the imported products.  They're being forced to pay unless Trump rebuilds manufacturing beforehand, which would be fantastic, but he'll have his entire party to fight against to do it, good luck.

2. The offshore companies don't pay them.  It's the local importer does as the products pass through customs.

The biggest issue is, and the one relevant to your original point which you seem to be trying to abandon, Trump will need to rebuild the local manufacturing sector and have them building the same products as China, otherwise Americans will be FORCED to pay the tariffs.

He seems to think all he needs to do is put the tariffs in place and the rest just magically happens.

If he does that, everything I've predicted will likely come to pass.

SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 4:20pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 3:31pm: Let's not get bogged down on 'day one'. I've already extended him that courtesy. Quote: Chinese trade practices are dishonest. Many, many countries have pointed this out over the years. Europeans also impose tariffs on goods with some glaringly unfair / dishonest  Chinese cheating. Most Chinese industry has developed on the back of Western investment and Western companies shifting to China. China has exploited this, added masive industrial espionage and intellectual property theft and now has, due to thise dishonest practices, a massive trade surplus it uses to usurp Western and especially American global power and influence. Very significantly, the rustbelts of the West suffered from shifting production to to China, a.k.a. 'globalisation'. The price the people of these rustbelt paid for globalisation has been too high - one reason they voted for Trump in droves. Tariffs are a way to counter the CCP hoof on the trade scale. Other dishonest practices will be countered with tariffs on Mexico, too. If they do not stop the tide of illegals pouring through Mexico, Trump will impose big punitive tariffs on Mexican goods. Has construction of a huge Chinese electric car manufacturing plant been put on hold in Mexico? Yes. Will Mexico do a lot more to stop the flow of ilkegals through its  territory. Yes. So you're just going to ignore the rest? To your original points, Frank wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 2:15pm: Your assumption is that 1. Americans will continue to buy Chinese rubbish even with 60% higher prices 2. Offshore American companies will prefer to pay the 60% extra, pass it on to their customers and stay offshore rather than return to America and avoid the tariff hike. 1. You're not addressing the lack of local options to purchase instead of the imported products.  They're being forced to pay unless Trump rebuilds manufacturing beforehand, which would be fantastic, but he'll have his entire party to fight against to do it, good luck. 2. The offshore companies don't pay them.  It's the local importer does as the products pass through customs. The biggest issue is, and the one relevant to your original point which you seem to be trying to abandon, Trump will need to rebuild the local manufacturing sector and have them building the same products as China, otherwise Americans will be FORCED to pay the tariffs. He seems to think all he needs to do is put the tariffs in place and the rest just magically happens. If he does that, everything I've predicted will likely come to pass.

Trump wants to bring back American industry to America so American companies employ Americans, not Chinese, pay tax in America, not China, keep American know-how in America, not give away to China.

America is nowhere near as far gone in obliterating its own manufacturing ability as Australia. The other thing is: how much OTHER benefit comes from paying a bit more to have American jobs in America, paying tax and supporting families and communities in America.

[edit]If he does that, everything I've predicted will likely come to pass.[/edit]
I am very sanguine about that, considering your record of accurate predictions  ::) ::) in the last few years about Trump and America in particular, and Australia and the world in general.

Labor majority government wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:06pm:

Trump is an isolationist and if he slaps tariffs on China as he has proposed that will have a detrimental effect on exporting our raw materials as demand slides and Australia will become an even bigger dumping ground for Chinese made products and plunge us further into debt , guess who will be picking up the tab from the revenue shortfall... the Aussie taxpayer

Trump doesn't even understand how tariffs WORK !

The last time he put a tariff on any import it was on avocados imported from Mexico.

He SERIOUSLY BELIEVED it was MEXICO paying the tariff - and not the American consumer
All it did was to slap on a massive price increase to avocados.

... and not one of his "yes men" dared to correct him.   


.

buzzanddidj wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 4:58pm:

... and not one of his "yes men" dared to correct him.   [/size]

Similar to what Xi Jinping has engineered within the CCP.

buzzanddidj wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 4:58pm:

Labor majority government wrote on Nov 6th, 2024 at 10:06pm: Trump is an isolationist and if he slaps tariffs on China as he has proposed that will have a detrimental effect on exporting our raw materials as demand slides and Australia will become an even bigger dumping ground for Chinese made products and plunge us further into debt , guess who will be picking up the tab from the revenue shortfall... the Aussie taxpayer Trump doesn't even understand how tariffs WORK ! The last time he put a tariff on any import it was on avocados imported from Mexico. He SERIOUSLY BELIEVED it was MEXICO paying the tariff - and not the American consumer All it did was to slap on a massive price increase to avocados. ... and not one of his "yes men" dared to correct him.    .

OMG!!  5% extra on smashed avos with your latte!

How the redneck garbage maga supporters gnashed their teeth!!

buzzanddidj wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 4:58pm:

Labor majority government wrote on Nov 6th, 2024 at 10:06pm: Trump is an isolationist and if he slaps tariffs on China as he has proposed that will have a detrimental effect on exporting our raw materials as demand slides and Australia will become an even bigger dumping ground for Chinese made products and plunge us further into debt , guess who will be picking up the tab from the revenue shortfall... the Aussie taxpayer Trump doesn't even understand how tariffs WORK !

That's correct. He has no idea.

Even when people explain it to him, he just says they're wrong.

Trump wants to make America great not Australia

Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 5:28pm:

Trump wants to make America great not Australia

I'm guessing Australia's one of them 'shithole countries' to Trump.

Frank wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 3:12pm:

Karnal wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 2:56pm: You're a Trump-man, old boy, but alas, it sounds like you don't get how tariffs work either, you poor old thing. Offshore companies? Shurely shome mishtake. Tariffs are an import tax. US companies and consumers pay tariffs when they do the unthinkable and buy cheaper (or better) products from places like jolly old Oz. Take our lovely waving wheat. If Americans want to buy it, they can. We're not charging anybody a tax to do so, but that's just us. Tariffs are not set by the sellers, stupid old Pakistani sniffer of pantaloons.

Just so, you inept old fool.

Nor are we imposing tariffs on Uncle.

Free trade, innit. Just like that erstwhile old value of yours, rule of law.

Freedom of choice.

Liberty equality fraternity et al.

All bedrock Western principles you'll abandon without a thought, without even knowing how they work.

Not only could he shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue, he could slit your own throat and you'd still gulp for more.

Yes, Master.

Frank wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 4:35pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 4:20pm: Frank wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 3:31pm: Let's not get bogged down on 'day one'. I've already extended him that courtesy. Quote: Chinese trade practices are dishonest. Many, many countries have pointed this out over the years. Europeans also impose tariffs on goods with some glaringly unfair / dishonest  Chinese cheating. Most Chinese industry has developed on the back of Western investment and Western companies shifting to China. China has exploited this, added masive industrial espionage and intellectual property theft and now has, due to thise dishonest practices, a massive trade surplus it uses to usurp Western and especially American global power and influence. Very significantly, the rustbelts of the West suffered from shifting production to to China, a.k.a. 'globalisation'. The price the people of these rustbelt paid for globalisation has been too high - one reason they voted for Trump in droves. Tariffs are a way to counter the CCP hoof on the trade scale. Other dishonest practices will be countered with tariffs on Mexico, too. If they do not stop the tide of illegals pouring through Mexico, Trump will impose big punitive tariffs on Mexican goods. Has construction of a huge Chinese electric car manufacturing plant been put on hold in Mexico? Yes. Will Mexico do a lot more to stop the flow of ilkegals through its  territory. Yes. So you're just going to ignore the rest? To your original points, Frank wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 2:15pm: Your assumption is that 1. Americans will continue to buy Chinese rubbish even with 60% higher prices 2. Offshore American companies will prefer to pay the 60% extra, pass it on to their customers and stay offshore rather than return to America and avoid the tariff hike. 1. You're not addressing the lack of local options to purchase instead of the imported products.  They're being forced to pay unless Trump rebuilds manufacturing beforehand, which would be fantastic, but he'll have his entire party to fight against to do it, good luck. 2. The offshore companies don't pay them.  It's the local importer does as the products pass through customs. The biggest issue is, and the one relevant to your original point which you seem to be trying to abandon, Trump will need to rebuild the local manufacturing sector and have them building the same products as China, otherwise Americans will be FORCED to pay the tariffs. He seems to think all he needs to do is put the tariffs in place and the rest just magically happens. If he does that, everything I've predicted will likely come to pass. Trump wants to bring back American industry to America so American companies employ Americans, not Chinese, pay tax in America, not China, keep American know-how in America, not give away to China. America is nowhere near as far gone in obliterating its own manufacturing ability as Australia. The other thing is: how much OTHER benefit comes from paying a bit more to have American jobs in America, paying tax and supporting families and communities in America. [edit]If he does that, everything I've predicted will likely come to pass.[/edit] I am very sanguine about that, considering your record of accurate predictions  ::) ::) in the last few years about Trump and America in particular, and Australia and the world in general.

He's given no hint, other than tariffs on how he plans to achieve that.

If he does the same thing as last time, the same thing will happen...

Again, just because you reject the parts of his first term you don't like, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Karnal wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 5:31pm:

Just so, you inept old fool. Nor are we imposing tariffs on Uncle. Free trade, innit. Just like that erstwhile old value of yours, rule of law. Freedom of choice. Liberty equality fraternity et al. All bedrock Western principles you'll abandon without a thought, without even knowing how they work. Not only could he shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue, he could slit your own throat and you'd still gulp for more. Yes, Master.

Karnal supported a lunatic.


https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/168/342/067/original/ff2f5a62eca4a566.png

And here we go ....

Told ya so :)

Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 8:27am:

Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia?

That isn't his concern.......His 'America First' policy will be his sole guide.....what benefits America will be his first priority........Australia will just have to fend for herself.

Panther wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 12:49pm:

Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:27am: Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia? That isn't his concern.......His 'America First' policy will be his sole guide.....what benefits America will be his first priority........Australia will just have to fend for herself.

Do you think Americans will be happy to pay more for all those Chinese products?

iPhones, MAGA merchandise, Levis, TVs, Nike shoes, Converse sneakers, XBox consoles, Disney toys, Ray-Ban sunglasses, Dell computers, etc.?

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 1:24pm:

Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 12:49pm: Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:27am: Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia? That isn't his concern.......His 'America First' policy will be his sole guide.....what benefits America will be his first priority........Australia will just have to fend for herself. Do you think Americans will be happy to pay more for all those Chinese products? iPhones, MAGA merchandise, Levis, TVs, Nike shoes, Converse sneakers, XBox consoles, Disney toys, Ray-Ban sunglasses, Dell computers, etc.?

Why not? These are all American brands, once produced in America.

Make American Gear Again.

Panther wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 12:49pm:

Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:27am: Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia? That isn't his concern.......His 'America First' policy will be his sole guide.....what benefits America will be his first priority........Australia will just have to fend for herself.

Well, we did pay 400 billion for imaginary subs so, the US got its security shakedown money from us.

Frank wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 1:55pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 1:24pm: Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 12:49pm: Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:27am: Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia? That isn't his concern.......His 'America First' policy will be his sole guide.....what benefits America will be his first priority........Australia will just have to fend for herself. Do you think Americans will be happy to pay more for all those Chinese products? iPhones, MAGA merchandise, Levis, TVs, Nike shoes, Converse sneakers, XBox consoles, Disney toys, Ray-Ban sunglasses, Dell computers, etc.? Why not? These are all American brands, once produced in America. Make American Gear Again.

They're produced in China now, so that means Americans will have to pay more for them.

That's how tariffs work.  All of those products will become much more expensive.

Do you think the average American will be happy with the price increases caused by Trump's tarrifs?

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 1:24pm:

Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 12:49pm: Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:27am: Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia? That isn't his concern.......His 'America First' policy will be his sole guide.....what benefits America will be his first priority........Australia will just have to fend for herself. Do you think Americans will be happy to pay more for all those Chinese products? iPhones, MAGA merchandise, Levis, TVs, Nike shoes, Converse sneakers, XBox consoles, Disney toys, Ray-Ban sunglasses, Dell computers, etc.?

Mexico is gearing up to become America's new China.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 2:00pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 1:24pm: Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 12:49pm: Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:27am: Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia? That isn't his concern.......His 'America First' policy will be his sole guide.....what benefits America will be his first priority........Australia will just have to fend for herself. Do you think Americans will be happy to pay more for all those Chinese products? iPhones, MAGA merchandise, Levis, TVs, Nike shoes, Converse sneakers, XBox consoles, Disney toys, Ray-Ban sunglasses, Dell computers, etc.? Mexico is gearing up to become America's new China.

Either way, the average American will have to pay much more for those products thanks to Trump's tariffs.

Do you think they'll be happy about that?

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 2:02pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:00pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 1:24pm: Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 12:49pm: Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:27am: Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia? That isn't his concern.......His 'America First' policy will be his sole guide.....what benefits America will be his first priority........Australia will just have to fend for herself. Do you think Americans will be happy to pay more for all those Chinese products? iPhones, MAGA merchandise, Levis, TVs, Nike shoes, Converse sneakers, XBox consoles, Disney toys, Ray-Ban sunglasses, Dell computers, etc.? Mexico is gearing up to become America's new China. Either way, the average American will have to pay much more for those products thanks to Trump's tariffs. Do you think they'll be happy about that?

Not if Mexican-made goods via NAFTA 2.0 is exempt from tariffs.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 2:04pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:02pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:00pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 1:24pm: Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 12:49pm: Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:27am: Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia? That isn't his concern.......His 'America First' policy will be his sole guide.....what benefits America will be his first priority........Australia will just have to fend for herself. Do you think Americans will be happy to pay more for all those Chinese products? iPhones, MAGA merchandise, Levis, TVs, Nike shoes, Converse sneakers, XBox consoles, Disney toys, Ray-Ban sunglasses, Dell computers, etc.? Mexico is gearing up to become America's new China. Either way, the average American will have to pay much more for those products thanks to Trump's tariffs. Do you think they'll be happy about that? Not if Mexican-made goods via NAFTA 2.0 is exempt from tariffs.

"President-elect Donald Trump on Monday promised massive hikes in tariffs on goods coming from Mexico, Canada and China starting on the first day of his administration ..."

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 2:14pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:04pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:02pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:00pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 1:24pm: Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 12:49pm: Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:27am: Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia? That isn't his concern.......His 'America First' policy will be his sole guide.....what benefits America will be his first priority........Australia will just have to fend for herself. Do you think Americans will be happy to pay more for all those Chinese products? iPhones, MAGA merchandise, Levis, TVs, Nike shoes, Converse sneakers, XBox consoles, Disney toys, Ray-Ban sunglasses, Dell computers, etc.? Mexico is gearing up to become America's new China. Either way, the average American will have to pay much more for those products thanks to Trump's tariffs. Do you think they'll be happy about that? Not if Mexican-made goods via NAFTA 2.0 is exempt from tariffs. "President-elect Donald Trump on Monday promised massive hikes in tariffs on goods coming from Mexico, Canada and China starting on the first day of his administration ..."

He said... He said... Like the wall he said they'd pay for!

It was Trump who proposed and signed NAFTA 2.0 with Canada and Mexico.

There'll be no tariff hikes on Mexico... That was pre-election crap talk for his base... 

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 2:21pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:14pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:04pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:02pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:00pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 1:24pm: Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 12:49pm: Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:27am: Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia? That isn't his concern.......His 'America First' policy will be his sole guide.....what benefits America will be his first priority........Australia will just have to fend for herself. Do you think Americans will be happy to pay more for all those Chinese products? iPhones, MAGA merchandise, Levis, TVs, Nike shoes, Converse sneakers, XBox consoles, Disney toys, Ray-Ban sunglasses, Dell computers, etc.? Mexico is gearing up to become America's new China. Either way, the average American will have to pay much more for those products thanks to Trump's tariffs. Do you think they'll be happy about that? Not if Mexican-made goods via NAFTA 2.0 is exempt from tariffs. "President-elect Donald Trump on Monday promised massive hikes in tariffs on goods coming from Mexico, Canada and China starting on the first day of his administration ..." He said... He said... Like the wall he said they'd pay for! It was Trump who proposed and signed NAFTA 2.0 with Canada and Mexico. There'll be no tariff hikes on Mexico... That was pre-election crap talk for his base...

Indeed.

But do you think his cult members have caught on yet?

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 2:22pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:21pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:14pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:04pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:02pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:00pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 1:24pm: Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 12:49pm: Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:27am: Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia? That isn't his concern.......His 'America First' policy will be his sole guide.....what benefits America will be his first priority........Australia will just have to fend for herself. Do you think Americans will be happy to pay more for all those Chinese products? iPhones, MAGA merchandise, Levis, TVs, Nike shoes, Converse sneakers, XBox consoles, Disney toys, Ray-Ban sunglasses, Dell computers, etc.? Mexico is gearing up to become America's new China. Either way, the average American will have to pay much more for those products thanks to Trump's tariffs. Do you think they'll be happy about that? Not if Mexican-made goods via NAFTA 2.0 is exempt from tariffs. "President-elect Donald Trump on Monday promised massive hikes in tariffs on goods coming from Mexico, Canada and China starting on the first day of his administration ..." He said... He said... Like the wall he said they'd pay for! It was Trump who proposed and signed NAFTA 2.0 with Canada and Mexico. There'll be no tariff hikes on Mexico... That was pre-election crap talk for his base...  Indeed. But do you think his cult members have caught on yet?

The public has a short memory.

The base's man won... They'll find reasons to be cheerful.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 1:24pm:

Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 12:49pm: Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:27am: Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia? That isn't his concern.......His 'America First' policy will be his sole guide.....what benefits America will be his first priority........Australia will just have to fend for herself. Do you think Americans will be happy to pay more for all those Chinese products? iPhones, MAGA merchandise, Levis, TVs, Nike shoes, Converse sneakers, XBox consoles, Disney toys, Ray-Ban sunglasses, Dell computers, etc.?

Many of those items, if not all of those China exports have tariffs on them already, so Americans have been paying more for those items already. So, if Trump raises tariffs higher, then threatens to make them even higher still, it will only really hurt China's back pocket in the already dropping demand for their products.

So, how will this help the US you ask?

The US will have many more bargaining chips for American negotiators to wager in long-term trade negotiations....the more President Trump threatens to raise the tariffs, & actually follows through with the increases, the more incentive China will eventually have to bargain in order to have the higher tariffs stopped before increasing again, & even lowered via two way, good faith, negotiations.

Panther wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 2:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 1:24pm: Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 12:49pm: Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:27am: Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia? That isn't his concern.......His 'America First' policy will be his sole guide.....what benefits America will be his first priority........Australia will just have to fend for herself. Do you think Americans will be happy to pay more for all those Chinese products? iPhones, MAGA merchandise, Levis, TVs, Nike shoes, Converse sneakers, XBox consoles, Disney toys, Ray-Ban sunglasses, Dell computers, etc.? Many of those China exports have tariffs on them already, so Americans have been paying more for them already. So, if Trump raises tariffs higher, then threatens to make them even higher still, it will only rally really hurt China's back pocket in the already dropping demand for their products.

Still surprises me how many people don't know how tariffs work.

It will hurt Americans.

They will have to either:

a) pay much more for the products, or

b) not have the products at all

It's a no-win situation for the average American.

Panther wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 2:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 1:24pm: Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 12:49pm: Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:27am: Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia? That isn't his concern.......His 'America First' policy will be his sole guide.....what benefits America will be his first priority........Australia will just have to fend for herself. Do you think Americans will be happy to pay more for all those Chinese products? iPhones, MAGA merchandise, Levis, TVs, Nike shoes, Converse sneakers, XBox consoles, Disney toys, Ray-Ban sunglasses, Dell computers, etc.? Many of those China exports have tariffs on them already, so Americans have been paying more for those items already. So, if Trump raises tariffs higher, then threatens to make them even higher still, it will only rally really hurt China's back pocket in the already dropping demand for their products. So, how will this help the US you ask? The US will have many more bargaining chips for American negotiators to wager in long-term trade negotiations....the more President Trump threatens to raise the tariffs, & actually follows through with the increases, the more incentive China will eventually have to bargain in order to have the higher tariffs stopped before increasing again, & even lowered via two way, good faith, negotiations.

You can put money on Chinese-made goods being passed off as Mexican-made goods within 6 months of any tariffs being raised.

So long as prices come down, the Trump Administration will turn a blind eye.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 2:36pm:

Still surprises me how many people don't know how tariffs work.

FACT SHEET: President Biden Takes Action to Protect American Workers and Businesses from China’s Unfair Trade Practices

President Biden’s economic plan is supporting investments and creating good jobs in key sectors that are vital for America’s economic future and national security. China’s unfair trade practices concerning technology transfer, intellectual property, and innovation are threatening American businesses and workers. China is also flooding global markets with artificially low-priced exports. In response to China’s unfair trade practices and to counteract the resulting harms, today, President Biden is directing his Trade Representative to increase tariffs under Section 301 of the Trade Act of 1974 on $18 billion of imports from China to protect American workers and businesses.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-she...

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 2:36pm:

Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:33pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 1:24pm: Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 12:49pm: Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:27am: Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia? That isn't his concern.......His 'America First' policy will be his sole guide.....what benefits America will be his first priority........Australia will just have to fend for herself. Do you think Americans will be happy to pay more for all those Chinese products? iPhones, MAGA merchandise, Levis, TVs, Nike shoes, Converse sneakers, XBox consoles, Disney toys, Ray-Ban sunglasses, Dell computers, etc.? Many of those China exports have tariffs on them already, so Americans have been paying more for them already. So, if Trump raises tariffs higher, then threatens to make them even higher still, it will only rally really hurt China's back pocket in the already dropping demand for their products. Still surprises me how many people don't know how tariffs work. It will hurt Americans. They will have to either: a) pay much more for the products, or b) not have the products at all It's a no-win situation for the average American.

Wrong, the $$$ are only flowing in one direction, & Americans will eventually decide not to buy because they can't afford the product any longer, or already decided the value isn't there as it was years prior when the tariffs were initially raised, & the prices went up & up.....Americans will slow down the outbound $$$ flow, & eventually keep their $$$, & stop buying altogether......spending their hard earned $$$ on more important "necessities" ...... China looses, & Americans find something else to spend their $$$ on.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 2:36pm:

Still surprises me how many people don't know how tariffs work. It will hurt Americans. They will have to either: a) pay much more for the products, or b) not have the products at all It's a no-win situation for the average American.

There's no point repeating the point.

There will be no tariff hikes that hurt Americans such that they'll take to the streets over it. Even as we speak Mexico is gearing up to replace China for manufactured goods.

In the meantime, while the Mexicans build the manufacturing and supply lines, which they're already doing, if China can reach the US market via Mexico then, well... so be it.

Tarrifs was campaign talk. All candidates do it.

And for anything that gets blocked... I'm sure we'd be happy with cheap Chinese goods, once destined for the US, being offered to us.

We love someone else's slave labour just like the next democratic country.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 2:57pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:36pm: Still surprises me how many people don't know how tariffs work. It will hurt Americans. They will have to either: a) pay much more for the products, or b) not have the products at all It's a no-win situation for the average American. There's no point repeating the point. There will be no tariff hikes that hurt Americans such that they'll take to the streets over it. Even as we speak Mexico is gearing up to replace China for manufactured goods. In the meantime, while the Mexicans build the manufacturing and supply lines, which they're already doing, if China can reach the US market via Mexico then, well... so be it. Tarrifs was campaign talk. All candidates do it. And for anything that gets blocked... I'm sure we'd be happy with cheap Chinese goods, once destined for the US, being offered to us. We love someone else's slave labour just like the next democratic country.

Also, has everyone forgotten about INDIA, & their humongous, willing, low-income manufacturing work force???......

I bet they can give China a run for who gets more of the almighty US $$$.....

Panther wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 3:04pm:

Also, has everyone forgotten about INDIA, their humongous, willing, low-income manufacturing work force???...... I bet they can give China a run for who gets more of the US almighty $$$.....

Indian internal infrastructure is a heaving mess... They're no match for the Chinese when it comes to manufacturing and shipping goods on the cheap.

Now, the likes of Vietnam... that's a different story.

Panther wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 2:54pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:36pm: Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:33pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 1:24pm: Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 12:49pm: Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:27am: Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia? That isn't his concern.......His 'America First' policy will be his sole guide.....what benefits America will be his first priority........Australia will just have to fend for herself. Do you think Americans will be happy to pay more for all those Chinese products? iPhones, MAGA merchandise, Levis, TVs, Nike shoes, Converse sneakers, XBox consoles, Disney toys, Ray-Ban sunglasses, Dell computers, etc.? Many of those China exports have tariffs on them already, so Americans have been paying more for them already. So, if Trump raises tariffs higher, then threatens to make them even higher still, it will only rally really hurt China's back pocket in the already dropping demand for their products. Still surprises me how many people don't know how tariffs work. It will hurt Americans. They will have to either: a) pay much more for the products, or b) not have the products at all It's a no-win situation for the average American. Wrong, the $$$ are only flowing in one direction, & Americans will eventually decide not to buy because they can't afford the product any longer, or already decided the value isn't there as it was years prior when the tariffs were initially raised, & the prices went up & up.....Americans will slow down the outbound $$$ flow, & eventually keep their $$$, & stop buying altogether......spending their hard earned $$$ on more important "necessities" ...... China looses, & Americans find something else to spend their $$$ on.

Yeah, Americans will stop buying iPhones, Levis and Nike runners.

Lol   ;D

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 3:10pm:

Yeah, Americans will stop buying iPhones, Levis and Nike runners.

You're gonna fight that penny dropping down to the last calorie, eh!

Americans will not be paying more for these items. They will get to the US markets at the same price one way or another.

It's in the national interest for everyone to have a cellphone.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 3:10pm:

Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:54pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:36pm: Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 2:33pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 1:24pm: Panther wrote on Dec 1st, 2024 at 12:49pm: Labor majority government wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:27am: Now back to the question , if Trump enacts a 60% tariff on Chinese goods one would naturally assume there would be lower demand for our raw products , how is this good for Australia? That isn't his concern.......His 'America First' policy will be his sole guide.....what benefits America will be his first priority........Australia will just have to fend for herself. Do you think Americans will be happy to pay more for all those Chinese products? iPhones, MAGA merchandise, Levis, TVs, Nike shoes, Converse sneakers, XBox consoles, Disney toys, Ray-Ban sunglasses, Dell computers, etc.? Many of those China exports have tariffs on them already, so Americans have been paying more for them already. So, if Trump raises tariffs higher, then threatens to make them even higher still, it will only rally really hurt China's back pocket in the already dropping demand for their products. Still surprises me how many people don't know how tariffs work. It will hurt Americans. They will have to either: a) pay much more for the products, or b) not have the products at all It's a no-win situation for the average American. Wrong, the $$$ are only flowing in one direction, & Americans will eventually decide not to buy because they can't afford the product any longer, or already decided the value isn't there as it was years prior when the tariffs were initially raised, & the prices went up & up.....Americans will slow down the outbound $$$ flow, & eventually keep their $$$, & stop buying altogether......spending their hard earned $$$ on more important "necessities" ...... China looses, & Americans find something else to spend their $$$ on. Yeah, Americans will stop buying iPhones, Levis and Nike runners. Lol   ;D

Americans have plenty of options available.......Someone will fill the gap.....my money is on INDIA....even KOREA & MEXICO...they've all proven their lust for the strong US Dollar$$$.

If nothing less, China will have more incentive to ramp up the race......the race for the superior US Dollar$$$!!  ;D

When times are tough due to Democrat overspending (and pocketing) and war mongering, like the internal invasion of Zombies from central America (Oceania) upon the American citizens and their homes.
The Republicans are forced to be efficient and tighten the belt.

Look at Australia via the ALP Lefties.
They're selling every available resources from the land and seas to help China increase the War capacities of its War Machine to invade other nations.

Chinese navy sonar boom Australian naval divers and ALP slap China on the wrist with a price reduction on Iron Ore so they don't do it again.😆😆😆😆

Trudeau said in a recent interview: “Let’s not kid ourselves in any way, shape or form – 25 per cent tariffs on everything going to the United States would be devastating for the Canadian economy.”

The prime minister is said to have offered Freeland another role in the cabinet. She has said she will run in the election, which must be held in or before October. Trudeau’s Liberals trail the Conservatives by about 20 percentage points in most surveys.

Trudeau, who has been in power for nearly a decade, has only narrowly survived votes of confidence in recent months.

Canadians have complained of a downward shift in their country and said that promises Trudeau made to build the “Canadian dream” have not come to pass three terms on.

The affordability of the housing market is near a record low, grocery prices have rocketed, crime has become more visible and the country’s public healthcare system has been struggling under the added weight of new immigrants.

The Times


Chrystia Freeland, who also serves as the finance minister and was in charge of Canada’s response to the incoming Trump administration, said that she did not share Trudeau’s vision of the future as she became the most high-profile member of his cabinet to quit.

It adds to doubts about whether Trudeau, who already has dismal approval ratings, can lead the Liberal Party into next year’s general election.

If Trump enacts tariffs... it will hurt the countries that have the tariffs imposed upon them somewhat, but in the end, it will hurt US consumers far more as the added cost will be passed on to them and lead to a steep rise in US inflation, worsening the cost of living crisis.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 17^th, 2024 at 12:24pm:

If Trump enacts tariffs... it will hurt the countries that have the tariffs imposed upon them somewhat, but in the end, it will hurt US consumers far more as the added cost will be passed on to them and lead to a steep rise in US inflation, worsening the cost of living crisis.

We are all aware of this truth, even those who will push back by dismissing your arguments as doomsday scenarios.

Yet, it remains an unavoidable reality and the inevitable consequence of how Trump proposes to implement his tariffs, not the simple tariffs themselves.

SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 17^th, 2024 at 12:53pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 17th, 2024 at 12:24pm: If Trump enacts tariffs... it will hurt the countries that have the tariffs imposed upon them somewhat, but in the end, it will hurt US consumers far more as the added cost will be passed on to them and lead to a steep rise in US inflation, worsening the cost of living crisis. We are all aware of this truth, even those who will push back by dismissing your arguments as doomsday scenarios. Yet, it remains an unavoidable reality and the inevitable consequence of how Trump proposes to implement his tariffs, not the simple tariffs themselves.

It is not a truth at all.  Mere price increase, due to changes in supply, is not inflation.
Rising Relative Prices or Inflation: Why Knowing the Difference Matters

Frank wrote on Dec 17^th, 2024 at 1:21pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 17th, 2024 at 12:53pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 17th, 2024 at 12:24pm: If Trump enacts tariffs... it will hurt the countries that have the tariffs imposed upon them somewhat, but in the end, it will hurt US consumers far more as the added cost will be passed on to them and lead to a steep rise in US inflation, worsening the cost of living crisis. We are all aware of this truth, even those who will push back by dismissing your arguments as doomsday scenarios. Yet, it remains an unavoidable reality and the inevitable consequence of how Trump proposes to implement his tariffs, not the simple tariffs themselves. It is not a truth at all.  Mere price increase, due to changes in supply, is not inflation. Rising Relative Prices or Inflation: Why Knowing the Difference Matters

I never claimed that it was inflation, but it is certainly one of the factors that can contribute to it.

Your link also doesn't mention anything about tariffs.  One this it does talk about that CPI is an inflation measure.

Guess what has an impact on CPI?

Tariffs...

The overall impact depends on variables such as the size of the tariff, the degree of reliance on imports, and the broader economic environment. Generally, tariffs can drive up prices, which in turn can increase inflation, particularly when they disrupt supply chains or reduce market competition.

This is why not all tariffs are inherently harmful. However, the approach Trump is taking with his tariffs negatively affects these key factors, the tariff size, import reliance, and the economic context.

It’s as though the policy is designed to create more problems than it solves, especially considering his repeated assertions that China, Mexico, and Canada will bear the cost, rather than the US consumer.

SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 17^th, 2024 at 1:44pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 17th, 2024 at 1:21pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 17th, 2024 at 12:53pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 17th, 2024 at 12:24pm: If Trump enacts tariffs... it will hurt the countries that have the tariffs imposed upon them somewhat, but in the end, it will hurt US consumers far more as the added cost will be passed on to them and lead to a steep rise in US inflation, worsening the cost of living crisis. We are all aware of this truth, even those who will push back by dismissing your arguments as doomsday scenarios. Yet, it remains an unavoidable reality and the inevitable consequence of how Trump proposes to implement his tariffs, not the simple tariffs themselves. It is not a truth at all.  Mere price increase, due to changes in supply, is not inflation. Rising Relative Prices or Inflation: Why Knowing the Difference Matters I never claimed that it was inflation, but it is certainly one of the factors that can contribute to it.

Well, you said it is a truth that price increase is inflation.
It isn't, in itself.

Buying American made at full price instead of cheap, subsidised Chinese is not inflation.



Here's a detailed explanation as to why Tariff increases did not cause inflation, and their removal would undermine domestic supply chains

Many of those who inflicted this damaging status quo on U.S. workers have tried to leverage the current inflationary episode to roll back all tariffs introduced under the Trump administration in the name of containing inflation. This is a deeply dishonest linkage. Tariffs introduced over the past five years were not large enough, and the timing of them is completely inconsistent with them being a cause—or plausible significant solution—for today’s inflation.




That was written in 2022. So the dishonest lineage you TDS kids keep making is Still dishonest.

It is starting to look like Tariffs was a joke, he is likely going to claim that Canada and Mexico have bent their knee to Trump and tightened their borders. They will likely give him a way out by making a couple of small changes.

On the other side of the fence both countries are being aggressive towards the USA. The Canadian people have already determined to not by American. The government have plans to increase the tax on export oil into the US. Canada supply the US with about 4.5 million barrels a day. Their increase would lead to US bowser prices being about $1 a gallon more.

Dnarever wrote on Dec 17^th, 2024 at 2:01pm:

It is starting to look like Tariffs was a joke, he is likely going to claim that Canada and Mexico have bent their knee to Trump and tightened their borders.

Yep.

All a bluff (hopefully, for the average American).

Jasin wrote on Dec 1^st, 2024 at 4:15pm:

When times are tough due to Democrat overspending (and pocketing) and war mongering, like the internal invasion of Zombies from central America (Oceania) upon the American citizens and their homes. The Republicans are forced to be efficient and tighten the belt. Look at Australia via the ALP Lefties. They're selling every available resources from the land and seas to help China increase the War capacities of its War Machine to invade other nations. Chinese navy sonar boom Australian naval divers and ALP slap China on the wrist with a price reduction on Iron Ore so they don't do it again.😆😆😆😆

Quote:

When times are tough due to Democrat overspending

Reagan, Bush, Bush and Trump all left economic disasters behind when they left office.

Clinton, Obama and Biden all fixed the messes left for them.

Now here we go again with a dum dum attempted President flushing the economy down the drain. - any bet that we don't start with unaffordable, unfunded tax cuts for the wealthy ?

An actual American businessman, working on the shop floor, who knows what he's talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YePkkf6U3Q

Subscribe to his channel, if you like guitars - he's a good dude.

I've been following him for a few years now.

You're so close Frank, yet you're still embarrassingly far.

While much of what you're saying it true, not only are you misrepresenting what I said, you're selectively misrepresenting Trump's tariffs too.


Frank wrote on Dec 17^th, 2024 at 1:55pm:

Well, you said it is a truth that price increase is inflation. It isn't, in itself.

That's not what I said. 

The exchange was,


SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 17^th, 2024 at 12:53pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 17th, 2024 at 12:24pm: If Trump enacts tariffs... it will hurt the countries that have the tariffs imposed upon them somewhat, but in the end, it will hurt US consumers far more as the added cost will be passed on to them and lead to a steep rise in US inflation, worsening the cost of living crisis. We are all aware of this truth, even those who will push back by dismissing your arguments as doomsday scenarios. Yet, it remains an unavoidable reality and the inevitable consequence of how Trump proposes to implement his tariffs, not the simple tariffs themselves.

Nobody made the claim the prince increase thanks to the tariffs "IS" inflation.  But it is 100% accurate, and a "truth" that it will lead to a rise in inflation, which all economic experts have been warning about.

As we've been through already, it is not a guarantee when it comes to tariffs, it's all about how they are designed and implemented, with the key indicators of their impact on inflation being the size of the tariff, the degree of reliance on imports, and the broader economic environment. 

These are all things Trump controls.

His timing of the claimed "day one" means there are no measures in place to offer locally made, non-tariffed alternatives for supply chain or final products in the vast majority of cases and where there is, there isn't the capacity to offer that alternative to all consumers. 

His choice of timing also means that he chooses the broader economic environment. 

As for the size of the tariffs, that's directly his choice too.

So any pump in inflation thanks to the way he's designed and implemented the tariffs and a possible following recession can accurately be characterised as "The Trump Recession".


Quote:

Buying American made at full price instead of cheap, subsidised Chinese is not inflation.

Agreed.  That's why it's so damaging the way he's designed the tariffs and his timing of them leaves an enormous shortfall on locally made products without tariffed supply chain components.

If he doesn't go through with the tariffs, that uncertainty will hinder future investment should he implement them, because who knows how long they'll last.  Are they there for the long run, allow a return on investment, or are they a bluff or a gamble to try and force outcomes in other areas.

Uncertainty is the death of investment, so he's causing even more harm if he does this which will blunt the impact of future tariffs he may actually design and implement properly (which is giving him far too much credit that this is even a possibility).


Quote:

Here's a detailed explanation as to why Tariff increases did not cause inflation, and their removal would undermine domestic supply chains Many of those who inflicted this damaging status quo on U.S. workers have tried to leverage the current inflationary episode to roll back all tariffs introduced under the Trump administration in the name of containing inflation. This is a deeply dishonest linkage. Tariffs introduced over the past five years were not large enough, and the timing of them is completely inconsistent with them being a cause—or plausible significant solution—for today’s inflation. That was written in 2022. So the dishonest lineage you TDS kids keep making is Still dishonest.

You're the only one who is arguing that all tariffs cause inflation.

I'm certainly not saying that.  You are deliberately misrepresenting what I've said to match something where you've found an article that can disprove it.

I've never said tariffs are bad, I've said the way Trump has designed the tariffs on China, Mexico and Canada is the problem that will lead to these negative outcomes. 

He didn't take the Biden route of building up the local supply first, with public and private investment, along with regulatory changes to foster growth in that sector.  Now that this is completed, Biden increased the tariffs, again to borrow your example, on the solar components that can now be bought locally so the consumers have the choice and can avoid the tariffs if they choose.

You said it yourself, "Buying American made at full price instead of cheap, subsidised Chinese is not inflation".

Trump's tariffs don't give people or manufactures that option.

AND THAT'S A BIG PART OF THE PROBLEM!

It's not tariffs, it's the way Trump is trying to use them.

All while lying, saying China, Canada and Mexico will be paying for them.

You're SOOOOOO Close to getting it.  You've laid out all the points that support what everyone has been saying about Trump's tariffs, yet you're choosing to not make that link.

So close!!!

Very long winded. But one point needs rebutting pronto:


Quote:

You're the only one who is arguing that all tariffs cause inflation.

I don't know whether you are lying deliberately or really believe your own silly rhetoric.

An entire thread was started with "Trump tariffs cause inflation" by armchair.

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1732838003/0

Gweggy turd clapped along eagerly. When I said it's crap, you, gweggy, armchair, karnal, duckwit etc, etc etc just kept saying 'you don't get it', trump tariffs will push up inflation.

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1733528672/89#89

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1733559775/6#6

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1725530677/34#34

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1731956731/32#32

Now you are saying that none of you ever said that TRUMP tariffs would be inflationary - but it was only me all along!  You TDS guys have no honest bone in your collective bodies.


As for this hooey

Quote:

I've never said tariffs are bad, I've said the way Trump has designed the tariffs

You have no idea how Trump has designed the tariffs. All you know what he has said during the campaign and after he won.

But his winning has been a constant electric current into your collective amygdala, producing insensate rage and hyperbole.

Frank wrote on Dec 17^th, 2024 at 4:39pm:

Very long winded. But one point needs rebutting pronto: Quote: You're the only one who is arguing that all tariffs cause inflation. I don't know whether you are lying deliberately or really believe your own silly rhetoric. An entire thread was started with "Trump tariffs cause inflation" by armchair. https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1732838003/0 Gweggy turd clapped along eagerly. When I said it's crap, you, gweggy, armchair, karnal, duckwit etc, etc etc just kept saying 'you don't get it', trump tariffs will push up inflation. https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1733528672/89#89 https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1733559775/6#6 https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1725530677/34#34 https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1731956731/32#32 Now you are saying that none of you ever said that TRUMP tariffs would be inflationary - but it was only me all along!  You TDS guys have no honest bone in your collective bodies.

You're the only one who is arguing that all tariffs cause inflation.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 17^th, 2024 at 4:42pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 17th, 2024 at 4:39pm: Very long winded. But one point needs rebutting pronto: Quote: You're the only one who is arguing that all tariffs cause inflation. I don't know whether you are lying deliberately or really believe your own silly rhetoric. An entire thread was started with "Trump tariffs cause inflation" by armchair. https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1732838003/0 Gweggy turd clapped along eagerly. When I said it's crap, you, gweggy, armchair, karnal, duckwit etc, etc etc just kept saying 'you don't get it', trump tariffs will push up inflation. https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1733528672/89#89 https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1733559775/6#6 https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1725530677/34#34 https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1731956731/32#32 Now you are saying that none of you ever said that TRUMP tariffs would be inflationary - but it was only me all along!  You TDS guys have no honest bone in your collective bodies. You're the only one who is arguing that all tariffs cause inflation.

Where, lying turd?

Frank wrote on Dec 17^th, 2024 at 4:39pm:

Very long winded. But one point needs rebutting pronto: Quote: You're the only one who is arguing that all tariffs cause inflation. I don't know whether you are lying deliberately or really believe your own silly rhetoric. An entire thread was started with "Trump tariffs cause inflation" by armchair. https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1732838003/0 Gweggy turd clapped along eagerly. When I said it's crap, you, gweggy, armchair, karnal, duckwit etc, etc etc just kept saying 'you don't get it', trump tariffs will push up inflation. https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1733528672/89#89 https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1733559775/6#6 https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1725530677/34#34 https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1731956731/32#32 Now you are saying that none of you ever said that TRUMP tariffs would be inflationary - but it was only me all along!  You TDS guys have no honest bone in your collective bodies.

Slow down champ, I meant out of you and me.  I never said all tariffs were bad, I said the way Trump has designed his are, which is 100% accurate and I've explained why multiple times as have you, only you didn't even realise it.


Quote:

As for this hooey [quote]I've never said tariffs are bad, I've said the way Trump has designed the tariffs

You have no idea how Trump has designed the tariffs. All you know what he has said during the campaign and after he won. [/quote]

Exactly, and I’ve said as much myself. Unless he was lying during the campaign, we’re to take him at his word that he plans to impose a 25% tariff on all imports from Mexico, Canada, and China, along with an additional 10% on Chinese imports.

He’s also proposed a 100% tariff on all BRICS nations, with all of these measures being given “Day One” priority.

This is the plan he presented during the campaign, the one voters in the U.S. had to weigh when casting their ballots.

So, are you now suggesting that his campaign promises can’t be trusted?


Quote:

But his winning has been a constant electric current into your collective amygdala, producing insensate rage and hyperbole.

You’re the one arguing that we shouldn’t trust what he said on the campaign trail, yet I’ve been consistent from the beginning. Based on what we know of his plan, economists have repeatedly warned about the outcomes I’ve outlined here and in the other thread.

In contrast, you’ve been grasping at straws, shifting goalposts, playing semantics, and misrepresenting my arguments, all to sidestep acknowledging the risks and negative consequences of his tariff policies as we currently understand them.

If he backtracks after the inauguration, that comes with its own set of risks. However, those would primarily affect his credibility and the stability of investment in the US economy because he's too unpredictable.

That’s still preferable to the alternative: upward pressure on inflation, supply chain disruptions, skyrocketing costs of living, and the looming spectre of a full-blown, Trump-branded recession.

Gordon wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 8:13am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 7:52am: If Trump enacts tariffs inflation in US will rise You've become a moron. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-action-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/ https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/13/politics/china-tariffs-biden-trump/index.html

Oh, I see! Sleepy Joe enacted 200% tariffs on Chi-na, did he?

How diabolically cunning. Do you know what you are, Gordon?

You're a consumer. You do enjoy your free trade, no?

Naughty naughty. I imagine you're as aghast as Sprint at the big fella's threat to Freeeeeeedom.

After all, you're no Trump man, no?

You disagree with the very pwemise.

SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 17^th, 2024 at 5:48pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 17th, 2024 at 4:39pm: Very long winded. But one point needs rebutting pronto: Quote: You're the only one who is arguing that all tariffs cause inflation. I don't know whether you are lying deliberately or really believe your own silly rhetoric. An entire thread was started with "Trump tariffs cause inflation" by armchair. https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1732838003/0 Gweggy turd clapped along eagerly. When I said it's crap, you, gweggy, armchair, karnal, duckwit etc, etc etc just kept saying 'you don't get it', trump tariffs will push up inflation. https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1733528672/89#89 https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1733559775/6#6 https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1725530677/34#34 https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1731956731/32#32 Now you are saying that none of you ever said that TRUMP tariffs would be inflationary - but it was only me all along!  You TDS guys have no honest bone in your collective bodies. Slow down champ, I meant out of you and me.  I never said all tariffs were bad, I said the way Trump has designed his are, which is 100% accurate and I've explained why multiple times as have you, only you didn't even realise it. [quote]As for this hooey [quote]I've never said tariffs are bad, I've said the way Trump has designed the tariffs

You have no idea how Trump has designed the tariffs. All you know what he has said during the campaign and after he won. [/quote]

Exactly, and I’ve said as much myself. Unless he was lying during the campaign, we’re to take him at his word that he plans to impose a 25% tariff on all imports from Mexico, Canada, and China, along with an additional 10% on Chinese imports.

He’s also proposed a 100% tariff on all BRICS nations, with all of these measures being given “Day One” priority.

This is the plan he presented during the campaign, the one voters in the U.S. had to weigh when casting their ballots.

So, are you now suggesting that his campaign promises can’t be trusted?


Quote:

But his winning has been a constant electric current into your collective amygdala, producing insensate rage and hyperbole.

You’re the one arguing that we shouldn’t trust what he said on the campaign trail, yet I’ve been consistent from the beginning. Based on what we know of his plan, economists have repeatedly warned about the outcomes I’ve outlined here and in the other thread.

In contrast, you’ve been grasping at straws, shifting goalposts, playing semantics, and misrepresenting my arguments, all to sidestep acknowledging the risks and negative consequences of his tariff policies as we currently understand them.

If he backtracks after the inauguration, that comes with its own set of risks. However, those would primarily affect his credibility and the stability of investment in the US economy because he's too unpredictable.

That’s still preferable to the alternative: upward pressure on inflation, supply chain disruptions, skyrocketing costs of living, and the looming spectre of a full-blown, Trump-branded recession.[/quote]
Arse covering b.s..

Karnal wrote on Dec 17^th, 2024 at 6:44pm:

Gordon wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:13am: Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 7:52am: If Trump enacts tariffs inflation in US will rise You've become a moron. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-action-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/ https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/13/politics/china-tariffs-biden-trump/index.html Oh, I see! Sleepy Joe enacted 200% tariffs on Chi-na, did he? How diabolically cunning. Do you know what you are, Gordon? You're a consumer. You do enjoy your free trade, no? Naughty naughty. I imagine you're as aghast as Sprint at the big fella's threat to Freeeeeeedom. After all, you're no Trump man, no? You disagree with the very pwemise.

There, Sad, you as a paki grimacer. Fewer words, same Inane shite.

What IS the difference between you and karnal on Trump tarriffs?

Word count.

SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 17^th, 2024 at 3:44pm:

You're SOOOOOO Close to getting it.  You've laid out all the points that support what everyone has been saying about Trump's tariffs, yet you're choosing to not make that link. So close!!!

Yeah, he's getting close.

But he'll never get there.

I've told you this several times now - he's incapable of understanding.

You'd get better results arguing with a brick wall.

TRUMP WON !!😆🤣😂

Jasin wrote on Dec 17^th, 2024 at 7:22pm:

TRUMP WON !!😆🤣😂

The people lost.

You lost. Sooky sore loser. Haha.

Frank wrote on Dec 17^th, 2024 at 7:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 17th, 2024 at 6:44pm: Gordon wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 8:13am: Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 7:52am: If Trump enacts tariffs inflation in US will rise You've become a moron. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-action-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/ https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/13/politics/china-tariffs-biden-trump/index.html Oh, I see! Sleepy Joe enacted 200% tariffs on Chi-na, did he? How diabolically cunning. Do you know what you are, Gordon? You're a consumer. You do enjoy your free trade, no? Naughty naughty. I imagine you're as aghast as Sprint at the big fella's threat to Freeeeeeedom. After all, you're no Trump man, no? You disagree with the very pwemise. There, Sad, you as a paki grimacer. Fewer words, same Inane shite. What IS the difference between you and karnal on Trump tarriffs? Word count.

Oh? And what's the difference between poor, dear Sore End and a jolly old sex tourist?

They both pay top dollar, no?