Was this the podcast election?

The calculations were that if Harris or Trump went on 30 minutes of prime time CNN NBC or ABC every night for 2 months they would not have reached as many people as going once on Rogan

Add in the 100s of millions of views on people like Peterson. Shapiro williamson
Billieau.carlson and triggernometry.

aquascoot wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 4:45pm:

Was this the podcast election? The calculations were that if Harris or Trump went on 30 minutes of prime time CNN NBC or ABC every night for 2 months they would not have reached as many people as going once on Rogan Add in the 100s of millions of views on people like Peterson. Shapiro williamson Billieau.carlson and triggernometry.

Barron told Donald to do these podcasts to reach the younger audience.

Kamala refused to go on Rogan she only appeared on democrat friendly programs that wouldn't ask hard questions.

aquascoot wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 4:45pm:

Was this the podcast election? The calculations were that if Harris or Trump went on 30 minutes of prime time CNN NBC or ABC every night for 2 months they would not have reached as many people as going once on Rogan Add in the 100s of millions of views on people like Peterson. Shapiro williamson Billieau.carlson and triggernometry.

No doubt.

There are some cracks in the armour...

Konstantin Kisin is a bit too overawed by Rogan and his latest summary of 'Americans' is a bit of a Yank-arselicking cringefest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlFTLhei7J8

Indeed gents.

The left don't seem to have the equivalent.
And they are all a bit in awe of rogan

Rogan may be the best communicator I have heard.
Most of his guests don't interest me.

Sam Harris is perhaps the best anti Trump podcaster.
But he hates Islamic extremists with a passion and the left don't want to know him

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 4:54pm:

Kamala refused to go on Rogan she only appeared on democrat friendly programs that wouldn't ask hard questions.

Yep, I think how she mishandled the Rogan interview offer will go down as the defining moment when the power of long-form interview podcasting revealed itself.

And how she mishandled it will become a cautionary tale for all future politicians.

According to Rogan, the Harris team wanted Rogan to come to her - 'neutral territory'. They wanted to limit the interview time to 45 minutes to 1 hour and wanted to restrict the subjects covered.

It was an astounding misunderstanding on her part of how these podcast interviews (particularly Rogan's) have evolved, and exposed the heavily scripted nature of her 'spontaneity'.

To be fair, over 3 hours, Trump was all over the shop and often sounded like a nutjob - significantly worse than nearly every other guest Rogan's ever interviewed - spewing bullshit like the Exorcist girl - but, I think it ultimately elevated his cause - Yankists seem to have a heart for conmen who can gibber on like budgies - almost circular breathing - anyone who's ever watched an L Ron Hubbard interview will get the point.

aquascoot wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 6:20pm:

Indeed gents. The left don't seem to have the equivalent. And they are all a bit in awe of rogan

Rogan doesn't consider himself a right-wing conservative.

Vance's time with Rogan (over two and a half hours) was remarkably coherent and did not require an MMA / boxing 30+ minute filler - usually done for the bro street-cred effect.

Vance remained on point, actually explained policy and was able to speak candidly about himself and his life.

The publishing of the memoir of his formative years - A Hillbilly Elegy - has augmented his authenticity and appears to have left little for anyone to 'uncover' about his past.

No, not even close. Over 80% of all voters in the USA election attest to having made up their minds before September!!
Basically the contest was already over and the whitewash coverage by the dying legacy "main-stream" leftist, biased, media and useless pollsters had no clue, AGAIN.
There were plenty of hints regarding that reality. Virtually no-one had Trump winning the Kamala debate and all the media promulgated the line Harris smashed him.
Despite that, even their own polls afterwards showed almost no movement to her.
That's because almost all minds were already made up and the unheard, abused, berated and censored voting MAJORITY weren't budging.
Everyone keeps looking at the "Gimmicks" and missing the real underlying truth.
Basically the last 2 months barely had any effect.

goosecat wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 9:06pm:

No, not even close. Over 80% of all voters in the USA election attest to having made up their minds before September!! Basically the contest was already over and the whitewash coverage by the dying legacy "main-stream" leftist, biased, media and useless pollsters had no clue, AGAIN. There were plenty of hints regarding that reality. Virtually no-one had Trump winning the Kamala debate and all the media promulgated the line Harris smashed him. Despite that, even their own polls afterwards showed almost no movement to her. That's because almost all minds were already made up and the unheard, abused, berated and censored voting MAJORITY weren't budging. Everyone keeps looking at the "Gimmicks" and missing the real underlying truth. Basically the last 2 months barely had any effect.

And yet no polls showed a major swing to Trump. None indicated his winning the college and popular vote.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 9:21pm:

goosecat wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 9:06pm: No, not even close. Over 80% of all voters in the USA election attest to having made up their minds before September!! Basically the contest was already over and the whitewash coverage by the dying legacy "main-stream" leftist, biased, media and useless pollsters had no clue, AGAIN. There were plenty of hints regarding that reality. Virtually no-one had Trump winning the Kamala debate and all the media promulgated the line Harris smashed him. Despite that, even their own polls afterwards showed almost no movement to her. That's because almost all minds were already made up and the unheard, abused, berated and censored voting MAJORITY weren't budging. Everyone keeps looking at the "Gimmicks" and missing the real underlying truth. Basically the last 2 months barely had any effect. And yet no polls showed a major swing to Trump. None indicated his winning the college and popular vote.

True, most polls failed yet again.
The only major polling group to at least predict a Trump win, also happened to be the most accurate polling group in Bidens 2020 win: AtlasIntel
You can bet the "Left" billionaires will be targetting gaining control of that data analysis group.
They seem to be the only major polling organisation capable of actually performing.

Source: https://atlasintel.org/poll/usa-national-2024-1710

---

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 9:21pm:

goosecat wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 9:06pm: No, not even close. Over 80% of all voters in the USA election attest to having made up their minds before September!! Basically the contest was already over and the whitewash coverage by the dying legacy "main-stream" leftist, biased, media and useless pollsters had no clue, AGAIN. There were plenty of hints regarding that reality. Virtually no-one had Trump winning the Kamala debate and all the media promulgated the line Harris smashed him. Despite that, even their own polls afterwards showed almost no movement to her. That's because almost all minds were already made up and the unheard, abused, berated and censored voting MAJORITY weren't budging. Everyone keeps looking at the "Gimmicks" and missing the real underlying truth. Basically the last 2 months barely had any effect. And yet no polls showed a major swing to Trump. None indicated his winning the college and popular vote.

Not to mention the 13 Keys to the White House.

What does that tell you about polls and experts?

goosecat wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 9:23pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 9:21pm: goosecat wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 9:06pm: No, not even close. Over 80% of all voters in the USA election attest to having made up their minds before September!! Basically the contest was already over and the whitewash coverage by the dying legacy "main-stream" leftist, biased, media and useless pollsters had no clue, AGAIN. There were plenty of hints regarding that reality. Virtually no-one had Trump winning the Kamala debate and all the media promulgated the line Harris smashed him. Despite that, even their own polls afterwards showed almost no movement to her. That's because almost all minds were already made up and the unheard, abused, berated and censored voting MAJORITY weren't budging. Everyone keeps looking at the "Gimmicks" and missing the real underlying truth. Basically the last 2 months barely had any effect. And yet no polls showed a major swing to Trump. None indicated his winning the college and popular vote. True, most polls failed yet again.

I like Lichtman's take on pollsters and polling characterising the machinery of it as the Pollster-Media-Political complex.

The money to be made by pollster and media companies during an election cycle drives the false paradigm of a two-horse race running neck-and-neck to the finish line... only to find that, far from a photo finish, the winner won by 3 lengths and they all likely knew it.

Politicians buy into it as it keeps their message fresh in the mind and reduces complacency a predicted 'done-deal' imposes.

The modern-day exception would be that of Clinton in 2016, indicating that pollster and media companies just churned out garbage in Clinton's favour due to her gender, and its ground-breaking relevance, challenged only by an L Ron Hubbard-esque conman.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 10:24pm:

goosecat wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 9:23pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 9:21pm: goosecat wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 9:06pm: No, not even close. Over 80% of all voters in the USA election attest to having made up their minds before September!! Basically the contest was already over and the whitewash coverage by the dying legacy "main-stream" leftist, biased, media and useless pollsters had no clue, AGAIN. There were plenty of hints regarding that reality. Virtually no-one had Trump winning the Kamala debate and all the media promulgated the line Harris smashed him. Despite that, even their own polls afterwards showed almost no movement to her. That's because almost all minds were already made up and the unheard, abused, berated and censored voting MAJORITY weren't budging. Everyone keeps looking at the "Gimmicks" and missing the real underlying truth. Basically the last 2 months barely had any effect. And yet no polls showed a major swing to Trump. None indicated his winning the college and popular vote. True, most polls failed yet again. I like Lichtman's take on pollsters and polling characterising the machinery of it as the Pollster-Media-Political complex.

:D :D :D


Well, he MISSED the changes, hasn't he? He missed the Trump victory.
But yeah, he's an expert, so it is worth hearing his finger pointing AFTER he too got it wrong...
You take him seriously for the rest of us, why don't you?

Lichtman's greatest flaw in the interpretation of his keys, I believe, was his decision that:

There was 'no social unrest'. As a young man of the 50s and 60s, Lichtman measures social unrest as riots, upturned cars, looted shops, burning buildings, tear gas and water cannons. He said as much citing the 60s and BLM riots. He is a social-media illiterate - relying on his son to get him through his podcasts, so discounted that Millennials and Zoomers are likely to use social media to express deep dissatisfaction - unrest - without leaving the house. That and his discounting of peaceful protests because, in his words, 'they were nothing like the civil rights, Vietnam and Watergate protests of the 60s or the more recent BLM - George Floyd protests'.

That would have brought his keys from 9-4 in Harris's favour to 8-5.

Lichtman then determined that 'no foreign policy failure' went to the Democrats, calling Ukraine a foreign policy success. That and the Afghanistan pullout fiasco which he didn't bother with at all.

Had he called either one of those a foreign policy failure, as at least one of them could have been called, that would have brought his keys from 8-5 to 7-6 - which would have predicted an incumbent party loss, which it was,

Lichtman will be giving his post-mortem tomorrow, so I'd be interested in what he fesses up to.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 10:42pm:

Lichtman's greatest flaw in the interpretation of his keys, I believe, was his decision that: There was 'no social unrest'. As a young man of the 50s and 60s, Lichtman measures social unrest as riots, upturned cars, looted shops, burning buildings, tear gas and water cannons. He said as much citing the 60s and BLM riots. He is a social-media illiterate - relying on his son to get him through his podcasts, so discounted that Millennials and Zoomers are likely to use social media to express deep dissatisfaction - unrest - without leaving the house. That and his discounting of peaceful protests because, in his words, 'they were nothing like the civil rights, Vietnam and Watergate protests of the 60s or the more recent BLM - George Floyd protests'. That would have brought his keys from 9-4 in Harris's favour to 8-5. Lichtman then determined that 'no foreign policy failure' went to the Democrats, calling Ukraine a foreign policy success. That and the Afghanistan pullout fiasco which he didn't bother with at all. Had he called either one of those a foreign policy failure, as at least one of them could have been called, that would have brought his keys from 8-5 to 7-6 - which would have predicted an incumbent party loss, which it was, Lichtman will be giving his post-mortem tomorrow, so I'd be interested in what he fesses up to.

l'esprit de l'escalier



There's a lot of it about....

Truth reveals itself in hindsight.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 10:59pm:

Truth reveals itself in hindsight.

Not to you, TDS kids.

Trump-Derangement-Syndrome derangement syndrome - the gayer and bitchier, the worse the symptoms.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 11:12pm:

Trump-Derangement-Syndrome derangement syndrome - the gayer and bitchier, the worse the symptoms.

Where are you on the diagnostic spectrum?  You are a pseudo-sophisticate, so I am tipping somewhere between anxiety and confusion.

Only sons of the soil and toil, like Sprinty and Sad, are still at denial.

https://medexn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/7-stages-of-grief.png

Yep! The gayer, the bitchier...

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 11:39pm:

Yep! The gayer, the bitchier...

I am sensing pleading, bargaining and desperation.
You are regressing.


Nurse!!!

Aquascoot to the front desk, please... Aquascoot.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 11:44pm:

Aquascoot to the front desk, please... Aquascoot.

What?? You can't breathe?

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1720228231/221#221

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 11:44pm:

Aquascoot to the front desk, please... Aquascoot.

Just jab him with a shovel handle and tell him it's your cock.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 4:54pm:

aquascoot wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 4:45pm: Was this the podcast election? The calculations were that if Harris or Trump went on 30 minutes of prime time CNN NBC or ABC every night for 2 months they would not have reached as many people as going once on Rogan Add in the 100s of millions of views on people like Peterson. Shapiro williamson Billieau.carlson and triggernometry. Barron told Donald to do these podcasts to reach the younger audience. Kamala refused to go on Rogan she only appeared on democrat friendly programs that wouldn't ask hard questions.

It’s telling that you criticise candidates for dodging tough questions but conveniently overlook Trump’s cancelled interviews, skipped debates, and exclusive appearances on friendly podcasts. But impartiality and a shred of self-awareness seem too much to expect from you, don’t they, Barron?

Your hypocrisy couldn’t be more transparent.

SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 8^th, 2024 at 12:10pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 4:54pm: aquascoot wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 4:45pm: Was this the podcast election? The calculations were that if Harris or Trump went on 30 minutes of prime time CNN NBC or ABC every night for 2 months they would not have reached as many people as going once on Rogan Add in the 100s of millions of views on people like Peterson. Shapiro williamson Billieau.carlson and triggernometry. Barron told Donald to do these podcasts to reach the younger audience. Kamala refused to go on Rogan she only appeared on democrat friendly programs that wouldn't ask hard questions. It’s telling that you criticise candidates for dodging tough questions but conveniently overlook Trump’s cancelled interviews, skipped debates, and exclusive appearances on friendly podcasts. But impartiality and a shred of self-awareness seem too much to expect from you, don’t they, Barron? Your hypocrisy couldn’t be more transparent.

probably incorrect

rogan endorsed sanders 8 yrs ago

and rogan would have let kamala steer the conversation where ever she wanted

and rogan was very keen to get her

it was a major mistake not to go on

if she had just appeared gracious and sensible (which a DA would surely be able to do), she would have won a lot of votes

aquascoot wrote on Nov 8^th, 2024 at 1:25pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 8th, 2024 at 12:10pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 4:54pm: aquascoot wrote on Nov 7th, 2024 at 4:45pm: Was this the podcast election? The calculations were that if Harris or Trump went on 30 minutes of prime time CNN NBC or ABC every night for 2 months they would not have reached as many people as going once on Rogan Add in the 100s of millions of views on people like Peterson. Shapiro williamson Billieau.carlson and triggernometry. Barron told Donald to do these podcasts to reach the younger audience. Kamala refused to go on Rogan she only appeared on democrat friendly programs that wouldn't ask hard questions. It’s telling that you criticise candidates for dodging tough questions but conveniently overlook Trump’s cancelled interviews, skipped debates, and exclusive appearances on friendly podcasts. But impartiality and a shred of self-awareness seem too much to expect from you, don’t they, Barron? Your hypocrisy couldn’t be more transparent. probably incorrect rogan endorsed sanders 8 yrs ago

Despite being an apparently bleeding heart lefty, I actually listen to the JRE regularly.  There was no question that he was going to support and endorse Trump.

Sanders was able to go on the Podcast all those years ago and actually explain things to Rogan for him to understand, and he did the right thing and supported Burnie.

But he's been indoctrinated into the fringe issues like drag queens, covid and trans rights, he was only every going to back Trump this time around.


Quote:

and rogan would have let kamala steer the conversation where ever she wanted and rogan was very keen to get her it was a major mistake not to go on if she had just appeared gracious and sensible (which a DA would surely be able to do), she would have won a lot of votes

It was certainly a mistake not to go on these shows.  Theo's podcast would have been good, he's an admitted dumb dumb and while hilarious, he just seems to want to know more about things and beyond the shell, he's actually a genuine guy, despite his success.

It was undoubtedly a misstep not to appear on these shows. Theo’s podcast, for instance, would have been an excellent choice. Though he self-deprecatingly calls himself a “dumb-dumb,” he possesses a genuine curiosity that cuts through his comedic persona. Beneath the humour, he’s a sincere guy, willing to engage meaningfully despite his success.

Rogan used to be the same, but less so in recent times.

Harris and her campaign made numerous mistakes, no single miscalculation cost them the race against Trump. Now, we’re left to hope he’ll seriously engage with the responsibilities of the role and, as he claimed, oppose Project 2025.

However, it’s hard not to suspect that he’ll be more absorbed by the allure of playing king. Policy decisions, anything devoid of a ceremonial signing or photo op, may fail to hold his attention long enough to divert him from his golf course or rally stages.

If he delegates, let’s hope those entrusted will hold to his word. Yet with RFK Jr.’s health agenda already aligning closely with Project 2025, the early indicators are troubling.

he must be exhausted

what he might do is put JFK and musk and dana white  in charge and just go play golf

they are smart guys

i see he has appointed suan willies , she is a smart cookie

trump has done his bit

won probably both houses and the white house

now he can hand it off to the movers and shakers

i would imagine he has done a deal with musk to make bitcoin the NFT of government .

in exchange for musks support

this is called constructing the win/win

Musk's wealth increased by 10% on the election result alone.

Smart cookie doesn't mean right for the job, and that's not why they're being selected.

It's more about loyalty than suitability.  They bent the knee.

That's Trump's version of DEI hires.

aquascoot wrote on Nov 8^th, 2024 at 2:17pm:

trump has done his bit won probably both houses and the white house now he can hand it off to the movers and shakers

And do a Reagan 'no prior knowledge' speech if it goes tits up, then!

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 8^th, 2024 at 3:35pm:

aquascoot wrote on Nov 8th, 2024 at 2:17pm: trump has done his bit won probably both houses and the white house now he can hand it off to the movers and shakers And do a Reagan 'no prior knowledge' speech if it goes tits up, then!

trump is in a dictatorial position at least for the next 2 years

a "new broom sweeps clean"

a lot of the deadwood in the dept of health energy housing education is probably toast.

have they performed well?

is the american health system where big pharma spends 19 BILLION a year just on advertising good?

RFK would have to be better then that

and musk

did you know biden had a government panel on electric vehicles and invited 27 heads of the sector but NOT musk

incredibly stupid

musk IS the EV sector

biden drove him straight into trumps arms

the left are the very definition of success barriers and self fulfilling prophecies

aquascoot wrote on Nov 8^th, 2024 at 3:42pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 8th, 2024 at 3:35pm: aquascoot wrote on Nov 8th, 2024 at 2:17pm: trump has done his bit won probably both houses and the white house now he can hand it off to the movers and shakers And do a Reagan 'no prior knowledge' speech if it goes tits up, then! trump is in a dictatorial position at least for the next 2 years a "new broom sweeps clean" a lot of the deadwood in the dept of health energy housing education is probably toast. have they performed well? is the american health system where big pharma spends 19 BILLION a year just on advertising good? RFK would have to be better then that and musk did you know biden had a government panel on electric vehicles and invited 27 heads of the sector but NOT musk incredibly stupid musk IS the EV sector biden drove him straight into trumps arms the left are the very definition of success barriers and self fulfilling prophecies

Trump ain't no new broom... He's a geriatric straw broom - hasn't swept clean in decades.

Musk is the EV guy and Trump went to the people with 'Drill, baby, drill'... Collision course set!

If big pharma offers Trump some kind of cash deal, RFK will be in the trash can.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 8^th, 2024 at 3:51pm:

Musk is the EV guy and Trump went to the people with 'Drill, baby, drill'... Collision course set!

Trump is on board with EVs after Musk's bribe donation.

He said he had "no choice".

There'll be no collision, money talks louder than ideology for Trump, so long as he's getting the money.  He'll say or do whatever the highest bidder says.

Sometimes it doesn't even take money, just complements and charm from other world leaders and he's eating out of their hands like a puppy.

SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 8^th, 2024 at 3:54pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 8th, 2024 at 3:51pm: Musk is the EV guy and Trump went to the people with 'Drill, baby, drill'... Collision course set! Trump is on board with EVs after Musk's bribe donation. There'll be no collision, money talks louder than ideology for Trump, so long as he's getting the money.  He'll say or do whatever the highest bidder says. Sometimes it doesn't even take money, just complements and charm from other world leaders and he's eating out of their hands like a puppy.

Do you think the oil industry will be folding, or seeing Musk's numbers and raising?

Once Trump's done with being trumped in popularity by the 'brainiac bank' of Musk and Vance, the love will be gone. RFK will become a laughing-stock quick enough - another thing Trump hates - being associated with 'losers'.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 8^th, 2024 at 4:00pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 8th, 2024 at 3:54pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 8th, 2024 at 3:51pm: Musk is the EV guy and Trump went to the people with 'Drill, baby, drill'... Collision course set! Trump is on board with EVs after Musk's bribe donation. There'll be no collision, money talks louder than ideology for Trump, so long as he's getting the money.  He'll say or do whatever the highest bidder says. Sometimes it doesn't even take money, just complements and charm from other world leaders and he's eating out of their hands like a puppy. Do you think the oil industry will be folding, or seeing Musk's numbers and raising? Once Trump's done with being trumped in popularity by the 'brainiac bank' of Musk and Vance, the love will be gone. RFK will become a laughing-stock quick enough - another thing Trump hates - being associated with 'losers'.

The oil industry isn't disappearing any time soon, nor should it. Oil remains essential, not just for energy but for the production of plastics and numerous building materials central to modern life.

The critical point here, however, is that for years, Trump has railed against renewable energy, electric vehicles, and even measures as trivial as low-flow toilets, labelling them as threats to American freedom. Yet, in an instant, all that vitriol dissipated following Elon Musk’s donations.

This pivot is emblematic of Trump’s singular loyalty, to himself. His policies are not rooted in principle or public interest; they’re reflections of whatever he perceives to be most advantageous to his own standing. Evidence of this self-serving agenda was abundant in his first term, yet his supporters continue to cling to the illusion that he's working in their best interests, that he's somehow their champion.

In reality, unless one is a billionaire, Trump’s policies are unlikely to offer much benefit. On the contrary, his rhetoric around tariffs and trade suggests he’s willing to exacerbate the cost-of-living crisis. By driving up prices on essential goods and inflating costs for his own base, Trump’s proposals are set to worsen inflation, ultimately pushing up interest rates and putting further strain on everyday Americans.

His ardent supporters, those awaiting salvation, are at risk of being metaphorically fed to the billionaires he prioritises. Ironically, they may cheer him on even as they’re squeezed under the weight of his policies, unable, or unwilling, to see the grinder turning.

SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 8^th, 2024 at 4:06pm:

The critical point here, however, is that for years, Trump has railed against renewable energy, electric vehicles, and even measures as trivial as low-flow toilets, labelling them as threats to American freedom. Yet, in an instant, all that vitriol dissipated following Elon Musk’s donations.

And, of course, Trump will stick by his 180 on this (not!), even if the oil industry schmoozes him in a way Musk can't - his being a genius and autistic.

The EV infrastructure needs to be massively built up for EVs to be the biggest thing... more costly than his big beautiful wall (has he got a border Tsar in mind yet?)... What do you think the oil companies' combined public campaign will be like on that? Trump went to the people promising more jobs in big oil...

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 8^th, 2024 at 4:16pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 8th, 2024 at 4:06pm: The critical point here, however, is that for years, Trump has railed against renewable energy, electric vehicles, and even measures as trivial as low-flow toilets, labelling them as threats to American freedom. Yet, in an instant, all that vitriol dissipated following Elon Musk’s donations. And, of course, Trump will stick by his 180 on this (not!), even if the oil industry schmoozes him in a way Musk can't - his being a genius and autistic. The EV infrastructure needs to be massively built up for EVs to be the biggest thing... more costly than his big beautiful wall (has he got a border Tsar in mind yet?)... What do you think the oil companies' combined public campaign will be like on that? Trump went to the people promising more jobs in big oil...

Trump doesn't need to make any favourable changes to the EV or renewable landscape to pay his debt to Musk.

It's all about the tax cuts and other favourable policies to those in Musk's class.

We've seen the starting blueprints already.

Trump's base has adopted the notion of renewables being for the weak, they won't change their minds.

There is no point trying, and he's still got to balance his party's debts to the Oil industry as you say.

SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 8^th, 2024 at 4:41pm:

and he's still got to balance his party's debts to the Oil industry as you say.

Trump doesn't give two sh!ts about the Republican Party. He didn't even mention them in his victory speech.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 8^th, 2024 at 4:52pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 8th, 2024 at 4:41pm: and he's still got to balance his party's debts to the Oil industry as you say. Trump doesn't give two sh!ts about the Republican Party. He didn't even mention them in his victory speech.

Trump has made the GOP his party - a new party - a party for the working class.

Bobby. wrote on Nov 8^th, 2024 at 4:55pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 8th, 2024 at 4:52pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 8th, 2024 at 4:41pm: and he's still got to balance his party's debts to the Oil industry as you say. Trump doesn't give two sh!ts about the Republican Party. He didn't even mention them in his victory speech. Trump has made the GOP his party - a new party - a party for the working class.

Trump will be dispensing with the Republican Party altogether.

He's decided he doesn't need it.

This will be the first collision course between him and Vance.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 8^th, 2024 at 4:52pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 8th, 2024 at 4:41pm: and he's still got to balance his party's debts to the Oil industry as you say. Trump doesn't give two sh!ts about the Republican Party. He didn't even mention them in his victory speech.

the  end of the 2 party system could only be a good thing

as for musk

you have to admire the guys ethics to some extent

the main market for EV s was always well educated democrats

so he was willing to take a hit to do what he saw as the right thing around the trans , ukranian and migrant issues

aquascoot wrote on Nov 8^th, 2024 at 5:39pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 8th, 2024 at 4:52pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 8th, 2024 at 4:41pm: and he's still got to balance his party's debts to the Oil industry as you say. Trump doesn't give two sh!ts about the Republican Party. He didn't even mention them in his victory speech. the  end of the 2 party system could only be a good thing as for musk you have to admire the guys ethics to some extent the main market for EV s was always well educated democrats so he was willing to take a hit to do what he saw as the right thing around the trans , ukranian and migrant issues

Trump's abandoning of the Republican Party won't end the two-party system... But it won't do anything for a three-party system, either.

The pressure will be on Vance with his political best years in front of him to hold the fort for the Republican Party over the next four years...

Well, he broke out of his Appalachian historically pre-destined orbit... Who knows? Maybe he's got it to survive the heat of Trump's wrath when Vance chooses the Party over Trump.

And, well, Trump's an old man... and getting older.

We can have our opinions and disagree as aggressively as we feel we must, but, in a democracy, we must agree that the majority is always right... and that the majority is the torchbearer of the truth.

Something that even Plato, as an anti-democrat, conceded.

If we can't accept that, what's the point of democracy?