My fellow empty-heads of Ozpol ... the time has come to discuss the raging elephant in the room.....

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/jewish-man-who-waved-israeli-flag-in-front-of-pro-palestine-protest-speaks-out/ar-AA1vj1Nj?ocid=winp2fptaskbarhover&cvid=46f7a918be704877c35da8256271d1b7&ei=16

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/witness-fled-pre-dawn-synagogue-attack-to-raise-alarm-police-hunt-two-masked-suspects/ar-AA1vlCrf?ocid=winp2fptaskbar&cvid=5b669d0722954edfca2f780126e87b48&ei=6

Witness fled pre-dawn synagogue attack to raise alarm, police hunt two masked suspects

The founder of Yumi’s dips escaped the firebombing of a Melbourne synagogue before dawn on Friday, fleeing the building to raise the alarm.

Yumi Friedman said he was inside Adass Israel synagogue in Ripponlea with one other person about 4.10am when they heard a loud bang and glass shattering.

“I saw glass flying, so I just jumped out of my seat, ran out of the synagogue, through the hall to the back lane, and my shop is adjacent to the lane,” Friedman said.

He asked a staff member to call police and then returned to the synagogue to find the building alight.

“I thought maybe I’ll be able to open the doors and go inside, but when I touched the door, I burnt my hand,” he said.

“Then I decided it [was] too dangerous. I went out.”

The arson and explosives squad is investigating the firebombing at one of Australia’s busiest synagogues in the heart of Melbourne’s Jewish community.

Witnesses reported two suspects in dark clothing and masks at the scene at the time of the attack.

The damage inside is believed to be significant. One congregation member estimated there were millions of dollars’ worth of holy books and handwritten Torah scrolls inside.

A number of those Torah scrolls, including one from wartime Germany, were brought out of the synagogue just before midday on Friday. Congregation members carefully loaded them into a car, with some kissing the scrolls before they loaded them.

Many of the scrolls cannot be reached as they are stored in an area of the synagogue where the roof has collapsed.

Detective Inspector Chris Murray said police would do “everything we can to bring these individuals before the courts”.

It's hard to tell with you, but I don't know if you pro- or against- firebombing a synagogue.

Care to provide your views on the story?

With Netanyahu carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is "anti-semitic", I reckon the guys who bombed the vacant synagogue might have a legitimate cause - unlike in Nazi germany -  even if the methods of the two bombers are not lawful. 

This morning Karvelis faied to ask a Jewish woman bleating about "anti-semtism" whether she thought the ICC is "anti semetic".  Deplorable. 

The book of worship in the synagogue proclaims Jews as "The Chosen People" to whom belongs "The Promised Land".

Both OT (ie, Jewish Bible) assertions are incompatible with international law.  

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 1:14pm:

Whle Netanyuhu is carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is anti-semtic, I reckon the guys who the bombed the synagogue might have a legitimate cause - unlike in pre- war germany -  even if the methods of today's actors are not lawful.

Or is the UN right?

"UN Special Committee finds Israel’s warfare methods in Gaza consistent with genocide, including use of starvation as weapon of war"

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/11/un-special-committee-finds-israels-warfare-methods-gaza-consistent-genocide

Now all they have to do is prove the "consistency" in a court. It doesn't make it genocide until then. Despite others claims.

https://i.imgur.com/SJtZF1u.png

lee wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 1:22pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 1:14pm: Whle Netanyuhu is carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is anti-semtic, I reckon the guys who the bombed the synagogue might have a legitimate cause - unlike in pre- war germany -  even if the methods of today's actors are not lawful. Or is the UN right? "UN Special Committee finds Israel’s warfare methods in Gaza consistent with genocide, including use of starvation as weapon of war" https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/11/un-special-committee-finds-israels-warfare-methods-gaza-consistent-genocide Now all they have to do is prove the "consistency" in a court. It doesn't make it genocide until then. Despite others claims.

"Intent" to commit genocide  is difficult to prove - that's up the ICC to determine,  but the genocide itself is plain to see - it's sickening for most half decent  people concerned with morality, justice and fairness (unlike you...) who want the genocide to stop.

Now, as the UNGA said (except for a minority of RW  ideologues like you): get out of the occupied territories, and let the UNSC (with 99.9 % of the world's most advanced military force) enforce the peace by dealing with the extremists on either side ...using the tech which took out a military  Iranian  leader in Teheran... very clever tech...
 

Stop the genocide now.    

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

"Intent" to commit genocide  is difficult to prove - that's up the ICC to determine,  but the genocide itself is plain to see - it's sickening for most half decent  people concerned with morality, justice and fairness (unlike you...) who want the genocide to stop.

So HAMAS declaring war and killing Israelis, is not genocide "from the river to the sea", but Israeli fightback is. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

Stop the genocide now.

Another one of your myopic cri de coeur's. ;D ;D ;D

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img641/9394/yawnr.gif

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

lee wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 1:22pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 1:14pm: Whle Netanyuhu is carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is anti-semtic, I reckon the guys who the bombed the synagogue might have a legitimate cause - unlike in pre- war germany -  even if the methods of today's actors are not lawful. Or is the UN right? "UN Special Committee finds Israel’s warfare methods in Gaza consistent with genocide, including use of starvation as weapon of war" https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/11/un-special-committee-finds-israels-warfare-methods-gaza-consistent-genocide Now all they have to do is prove the "consistency" in a court. It doesn't make it genocide until then. Despite others claims. "Intent" to commit genocide  is difficult to prove - that's up the ICC to determine,  but the genocide itself is plain to see - it's sickening for most half decent  people concerned with morality, justice and fairness (unlike you...) who want the genocide to stop. Now, as the UNGA said (except for a minority of RW  ideologues like you): get out of the occupied territories, and let the UNSC (with 99.9 % of the world's most advanced military force) enforce the peace by dealing with the extremists on either side ...using the tech which took out a military  Iranian  leader in Teheran... very clever tech...   Stop the genocide now.

It is not genocide to defend yourself against murderous terrorists.

Hamas could have refrained from attacking Israel and taking hostages.
Or they could have released the hostages.

But no.


So tell us, What was the purpose of the Hamas and Hezb'allah and Iranian and Yemeni attacks on Israel?
Go on.

SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 11:58am:

It's hard to tell with you, but I don't know if you pro- or against- firebombing a synagogue. Care to provide your views on the story?

I'll answer your question in kind:-

When would you ever imagine that I am not on the side of the angels?  I've whipped Abo ideas and tranny travesty into shape for you all... e's a Rabbi!!

---

lee wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 3:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 1:43pm: "Intent" to commit genocide  is difficult to prove - that's up the ICC to determine,  but the genocide itself is plain to see - it's sickening for most half decent  people concerned with morality, justice and fairness (unlike you...) who want the genocide to stop. So HAMAS declaring war and killing Israelis, is not genocide "from the river to the sea", but Israeli fightback is. ::)

(sigh, the travails of educating blind Conservatives like lee)

Two errors:

1. Hamas (or any group) killing random Jews (or any group in general)  IS genocide, which is why the ICC has issued arrest warrants against Putin, Netanyahu and Hamas.

2. Re "Israeli fightback":

The UN voted to partition Palestine at a time when the Arab world was still benighted by literal interpretations  of the Koran  (prompting PM Abbot, several decades later,   to observe that "the Islamic world needs an 'enlightenment'" - just as Europe experienced in the 18th century). 

THe UN should never have recognized Israel UNTIL the UNSC  could guarantee peace between Israel and  Palestine, as per UN res 181, a resolution  which in Palestinian (and Arab) eyes amounted to confiscation of their homeland.

So the Partition Plan - only half implemented because the UNSC failed to secure the peace between the two new states as  proposed in UN res 181, is itself to blame  because it ignored  religious sensitivities (delusional as they were)  on the ground.

Obviously the Israelis were in favor of the Plan, because ...they got a new homeland; and boy, when Israel was recognised, they - being the stronger party (with the latest European arms),  set about murdering the Arab resistors to the Plan with genocidal force and intent.

And now "river to the sea" means <greater Israel>, to ugly zionist ideologues who are content to commit genocide to create it while bleating about "self-defence"),  even though the Arab world (except for extremist ideologues who are  the mirror image of ugly zionist ideologues)  has long conceded Israel's right to exist alongside a Palestinian state.      


Quote:

Another one of your myopic cri de coeur's. ;D ;D ;D

 

A defender of mass murder talking about myopia.

Deplorable.

                                      .                                                        high speed low level recon satellite                                                                                      stealth satellite ... wanna see me draw it again?                    

---

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 4:58pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 11:58am: It's hard to tell with you, but I don't know if you pro- or against- firebombing a synagogue. Care to provide your views on the story? I'll answer your question in kind:- When would you ever imagine that I am not on the side of the angels?  I've whipped Abo ideas and tranny travesty into shape for you all... e's a Rabbi!!

In English that means...?

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 5:17pm:

.                                                        high speed low level recon satellite                                                                                      stealth satellite ... wanna see me draw it again?

All those balloons launched  from a state which is  run by mass murderers. No thanks.


Another Conservative defending ugly zionist "Promised Land" ideology, emboldening Netanyahu to ignore UN resolutions and commit ongoing genocide.

And incapable of debating the points raised in the post to which he imagined he was replying.

Deplorable

(time for your day nap yet...?)   ::)

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 4:58pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 11:58am: It's hard to tell with you, but I don't know if you pro- or against- firebombing a synagogue. Care to provide your views on the story? I'll answer your question in kind:- When would you ever imagine that I am not on the side of the angels?  I've whipped Abo ideas and tranny travesty into shape for you all... e's a Rabbi!!

The only Jew with a grasp of reality is an  atheist Jew; Rabbis don't qualify.

Jehovah is a bronze age monstrosity, which is why Marcion - compiler of the evolving NT (soon after Jesus' death),  rejected the OT 'god'.

Mohammud made a big mistake choosing the OT 'god' as the deity for his <new religion for the Arabs>. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 5:09pm:

And now "river to the sea" means <greater Israel>, to ugly zionist ideologues who are content to commit genocide to create it while bleating about "self-defence"),  even though the Arab world (except for extremist ideologues who are  the mirror image of ugly zionist ideologues)  has long conceded Israel's right to exist alongside a Palestinain state.

And nothing there about "From the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free". Curious. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 5:09pm:

A defender of mass murder talking about myopia.

I have not defended anyone. Another of your false claims. ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 5:09pm:

THe UN should never have recogized Israel UNTIL the UNSC  could guarantee peace between Israel and the  Palestine, as per UN res 181, a resolution  which in Palestinian (and Arab) eyes amounted to confiscation of their home land.

Read that again, silly parrot on uppers.

                                                                                                                .

---

lee wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 5:51pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 5:09pm: And now "river to the sea" means <greater Israel>, to ugly zionist ideologues who are content to commit genocide to create it while bleating about "self-defence"),  even though the Arab world (except for extremist ideologues who are  the mirror image of ugly zionist ideologues)  has long conceded Israel's right to exist alongside a Palestinain state.  And nothing there about "From the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free". Curious. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Poor dumb lee: < greater Israel> means "from the river to the sea", which Netanyahu is now claiming is his, just like Hamas extremists.

Though, fyi,  some pro-Palestinian  activists consider the phrase means "the people of the land consisting of  Israel AND  Palestine" (ie, the former Palestine Mandate) "will be free, when the 2 states are are recognized by the UN as per UN res 181.

And that is what the UNGA voted for 2 days ago.


Quote:

. I have not defended anyone. Another of your false claims. ::)

You - along with the 8 nations who voted against  expelling the illegal settlers in the WB -  ARE indeed defending  the mass murderer Netanyahu against examination by the ICC.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 6:27pm:

Though, fyi,  some pro-Palestinian  activists consider the phrase means "the people of the land consisting of  Israel AND  Palestine" (ie, the former Palestine Mandate) "will be free, when the 2 states are are recognized by the UN as per UN res 181.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


But as that is a bit of a mouthful, they shout kill the Jews for the sake of brevity.


I am trying to picture you. But I have never seen a Chinese twat so I'm groping in the dark, to coin a phrase.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 6:27pm:

Though, fyi,  some pro-Palestinian  activists consider the phrase means "the people of the land consisting of  Israel AND  Palestine" (ie, the former Palestine Mandate) "will be free, when the 2 states are are recognized by the UN as per UN res 181. And that is what the UNGA voted for 2 days ago.

Delusional again. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 6:27pm:

You - along with the 8 nations who voted against  expelling the illegal settlers in the WB -  ARE indeed defending  the mass murderer Netanyahu against examination by the ICC.

Ah, so it is in words unsaid. It is so like you. A real Prat. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img641/9394/yawnr.gif

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 7:26pm:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img641/9394/yawnr.gif

[img]https://y.yarn.co/85e8f083-0240-4695-a586-e2c0d5a88485_text.gif[/img]

One Flew Over The Freediver's Nest....

Mothra as Nurse Ratshed
Dividie as Redfield
Phil as Taber
Smithy as the dumb Indian......
I'll be McMurphy - I defy any man to say NO when that cute little thing is right in front of him, doc...

Many years ago, in New York City, there was a release of ten thousand balloons in the middle of the city. Whilst the spectacle was televised, the organisers did not realise the trouble that releasing that many balloons had on the city.

Planes had to be diverted to other airports. Flights had to be cancelled or rerouted. Waterways were polluted. People crashed their cars trying to avoid floating orbs that they did not expect -- or by which they were distracted. And search and rescue helicopters looking for missing fishermen had found that the rescue efforts were hampered due to the balloon release, making it impossible to fly helicopters through a "minefield of balloons".

Balloon releases are just symbolic nonsense. Is that your point?

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 7:49pm:

One Flew Over The Freediver's Nest.... Mothra as Nurse Ratshed Dividie as Redfield Phil as Taber Smithy as the dumb Indian...... I'll be McMurphy - I defy any man to say NO when that cute little thing is right in front of him, doc...

Bbwian

https://64.media.tumblr.com/dd76e6810cec07a6c480f62566bdd85c/a698c6bdb17f7a10-9f/s400x600/b386f43bd456c6f4d84ab65b0d754c1963df4ea4.gif

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img641/9394/yawnr.gif

Frank wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 7:12pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 6:27pm: Though, fyi,  some pro-Palestinian  activists consider the phrase means "the people of the land consisting of  Israel AND  Palestine" (ie, the former Palestine Mandate) "will be free, when the 2 states are are recognized by the UN as per UN res 181. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D But as that is a bit of a mouthful, they shout kill the Jews for the sake of brevity. I am trying to picture you. But I have never seen a Chinese twat so I'm groping in the dark, to coin a phrase.

Thanks for the laugh; I'm sure you are adding years to my life....

But back to the issue:

Palestine (meaning Israel and a new state of Palestine as per UN re 181 adopted in 1947...better late than never...)

WILL BE FREE.

What's your objection to that?   

Meanwhile,  today Netanyahu, backed by the war-monger fool James Patterson, MP, claimed Oz's decision to vote with 156 other countries in the UNGA (including all the '5 eyes' countries  except the blind US...excuse the pun), is the reason why the synagogue in Melboure was fire-bombed.

No;  the reason it was fire-bombed is Israel has never ever shown any interest in atoning for stealing half of the former Palestine Mandate, and on the contrary is now committing ongoing genocide  to achieve its goal of illegally confiscating all of the former Palestine Mandate.

Deplorable.

And the US with its  UN veto  - the only reason UN res 242 wasn't implemented, is proving to be an evil player, as well.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 7^th, 2024 at 2:58pm:

No;  the reason it was fire-bombed is Israel has never ever shown any interest in atoning for stealing half of the former Palestine Mandate, and on the contrary is now committing ongoing genocide  to achieve its goal of illegally confiscating all of the former Palestine Mandate.

So do it where they have no direct say in what goes on. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The West Bank is Judea... ancient Jewish land.... the Ay-rabs stole it ... it's not theirs to reclaim...

Whoever did it should be hanged from the highest yardarm in Port Phillip bay.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/police-hunt-2-suspects-in-devastating-arson-attack-on-melbournes-addas-israel-synagogue/

Police hunt 2 suspects in devastating arson attack on
Melbourne’s Addas Israel synagogue'

https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2024/12/vlcsnap-2024-12-06-17h20m12s361-copy-25.jpg



6 December 2024, 6:02 pm

Australian police said Friday that two people suspected of torching a synagogue in Melbourne were still at large, as members of the local Jewish community expressed outrage at their government for failing to protect them amid surging antisemitism.

Mask-wearing assailants set ablaze the Orthodox Adass Israel synagogue in Ripponlea, a southeast suburb of the Victorian capital and home to a large Jewish community. A board member for the synagogue told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation that one congregant was burned in the attack.

Following the attack, Melbourne police beefed up security at several Jewish institutions, Australia’s 7NEWS reported.

The inside of the building was gutted, eyewitnesses said, and holy books were destroyed. Community members were seen rescuing Torah scrolls from the building.

In a sign of the apprehension of the local community, a leading Orthodox rabbi in Melbourne ruled that in the “current uncertain times,” Jews there may carry their phones, on silent, over the Sabbath, when electronic devices are normally prohibited, according to messages circulating on social media and local WhatsApp groups.

https://media.tenor.com/i7ryyyohQlYAAAAM/usual-suspects-metrics.gif

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 7^th, 2024 at 5:36pm:

https://media.tenor.com/i7ryyyohQlYAAAAM/usual-suspects-metrics.gif

we don't know yet if it was:
Muzzies,
right wing extremists or
a false flag operation.

Bobby. wrote on Dec 7^th, 2024 at 6:07pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 7th, 2024 at 5:36pm: https://media.tenor.com/i7ryyyohQlYAAAAM/usual-suspects-metrics.gif we don't know yet if it was: Muzzies, right wing extremists or a false flag operation.

You are each way Boob for a reason, aren't you, boob.

You should have a t shirt with 'press me, I'm a Booby' on it.

After a year of sustained anti Jewish vandalism in Australia and around the world by Muslims and their sympathisers, you ask, Bbwianesquely rolling your eyes, if it might not be Jews torching synagogues. 

Why would Mossad waste time and energy and money on a false flag op in Melbadishu?  What is to be gained?  Occum's Razor should cut to the quick.... and give a quick cut of the nuts of the offenders...

Them twenty 'right wingers' in Melbadishu wouldn't do this....

My money's on Mussos....

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img641/9394/yawnr.gif

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 7^th, 2024 at 8:16pm:

Why would Mossad waste time and energy and money on a false flag op in Melbadishu?  What is to be gained?  Occum's Razor should cut to the quick.... and give a quick cut of the nuts of the offenders... Them twenty 'right wingers' in Melbadishu wouldn't do this.... My money's on Mussos....

Of course it's the slaves of Allah.

Diversity is our strength.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img641/9394/yawnr.gif

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 7^th, 2024 at 9:20pm:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img641/9394/yawnr.gif

Oh, yawn and shitt ze nappies.  How wonderful you is, Mr doctor. You are zo educated and zo  articulate.


How do you do it?? Zo  amazement!

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img641/9394/yawnr.gif

SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 5:28pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 4:58pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 11:58am: It's hard to tell with you, but I don't know if you pro- or against- firebombing a synagogue. Care to provide your views on the story? I'll answer your question in kind:- When would you ever imagine that I am not on the side of the angels?  I've whipped Abo ideas and tranny travesty into shape for you all... e's a Rabbi!! In English that means...?

The things you choose not to say speak louder than the things you do.

That's right SK. Take your lefty mate Brian for example. Don't you love his spineless Voice?

Jasin wrote on Dec 8^th, 2024 at 5:11pm:

That's right SK. Take your lefty mate Brian for example. Don't you love his spineless Voice?

The difference is Grap stated this thread.

Difference is - should be "Welcome to YOUR country TOO" ceremony

SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 8^th, 2024 at 5:07pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 5:28pm: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 4:58pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 11:58am: It's hard to tell with you, but I don't know if you pro- or against- firebombing a synagogue. Care to provide your views on the story? I'll answer your question in kind:- When would you ever imagine that I am not on the side of the angels?  I've whipped Abo ideas and tranny travesty into shape for you all... e's a Rabbi!! In English that means...? The things you choose not to say speak louder than the things you do.

Oh? You hear what Bbwian's yawns are saying? Loud and clear?

Do tell us, please.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img641/9394/yawnr.gif

Peter Dutton vows to tighten migration laws to target anti-Semitism after synagogue arson ::) ::)

SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 11:58am:

It's hard to tell with you, but I don't know if you pro- or against- firebombing a synagogue. Care to provide your views on the story?

Here's a counter to all you pro-Palestinian/pro-hamas/Hezbollah terrorists.

An Arab Israeli at the Oxford Union.

He makes the point that there is no Apartheid in Israel.

The IDF is the Israeli Defence Force not the Jewish Defence Force.

That between 1947 and 1968 Arabs had control over Gaza(Egypt) and the West Bank(Jordan). There were no calls for a Palestinian State during those 21 years.
Neither Egypt nor Jordan offered one.

He served in the IDF rising to the rank of Capt. He gave orders to Jews.

There are Arab Muslim Judges in Israel. The head of Israels biggest bank was an Muslim Arab.

Those who support the terrorist supporting Palestinians are terrorist supporters themselves.

As he calls them - useful idiots for Hamas & Hezbollah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-OBn4MTyX0

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 1:14pm:

With Netanyahu carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is "anti-semitic", I reckon the guys who bombed the vacant synagogue might have a legitimate cause - unlike in Nazi germany -  even if the methods of the two bombers are not lawful.  This morning Karvelis faied to ask a Jewish woman bleating about "anti-semtism" whether she thought the ICC is "anti semetic".  Deplorable.  The book of worship in the synagogue proclaims Jews as "The Chosen People" to whom belongs "The Promised Land". Both OT (ie, Jewish Bible) assertions are incompatible with international law.

You're just another useful idiot to the terrorist cause of Hezbollah & Hamas.

There is no phukkin genocide by Israelis.

ROUND UP THE USUAL SUSPECTS.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/australian-police-seek-three-suspects-034231094.html

Australian police seek three suspects in synagogue blaze

Mon, December 9, 2024

Australian police said on Monday they are hunting for three suspects over an arson attack on a Melbourne synagogue,
which has been designated as a terrorist act.
Mask-wearing attackers set the Adass Israel Synagogue ablaze before dawn on Friday, police said, gutting much of the building.
Some congregants were inside the single-storey building at the time but no serious injuries were reported.
The fire sparked international condemnation, including from Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Round up the usual suspects.

https://s.hdnux.com/photos/24/75/74/5496623/3/ratio3x2_600.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXuBnz6vtuI

Gnads wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 3:17pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 1:14pm: With Netanyahu carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is "anti-semitic", I reckon the guys who bombed the vacant synagogue might have a legitimate cause - unlike in Nazi germany -  even if the methods of the two bombers are not lawful.  This morning Karvelis faied to ask a Jewish woman bleating about "anti-semtism" whether she thought the ICC is "anti semetic".  Deplorable.  The book of worship in the synagogue proclaims Jews as "The Chosen People" to whom belongs "The Promised Land". Both OT (ie, Jewish Bible) assertions are incompatible with international law.   You're just another useful idiot to the terrorist cause of Hezbollah & Hamas.

Certainly I understand WHY Hamas etc have turned to terrorism, after the UN in its wisdom decided to partition Palestine...and 7 decades later there is still no Palestinian state, because Israelis - supported by ugly ideologues in the US - keep accusing the PLA of not wanting to negotiate, as an excuse to keep expanding the illegal settlements  in the WB.   

[Way back when UN res 242 was adopted, a sticking point was the phrase "withdraw from (the)  occupied terriories"; there was argument over whether the word  "the" was in the language of  original resolution or not.

Disgraceful; the UNSC should have  enforced withdrawal from (the?) occupied territories , since the parties were incapable of "negotiation" re the border after the  1967 war.

But the US with its UNSC veto is a bad actor in Palestine, being controlled by the US's  unholy alliance of Jewish zealots and RW Christian 'Revelation' literalists. 


Quote:

There is no phukkin genocide by Israelis.

40,000 noncombatants slaughtered since Oct 7th and ongoing: 157 members in the UNGA say enough is enough in this 7 decade long war. 

Wherever the CULT OF DEAT GOES.

CIVILIZATION SUFFERS.

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Its interesting who posts and wont post in this thread.

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 7:43pm:

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Who did it Brian?

Bobby. wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 9:31pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 7:43pm: https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img641/9394/yawnr.gif Who did it Brian?

Anti-Semitics, Bobby.  Who do you reckon did it?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:35pm:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 9:31pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 7:43pm: https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img641/9394/yawnr.gif Who did it Brian? Anti-Semitics, Bobby.  Who do you reckon did it?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Could have been Muzzies?

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thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 4:56pm:

Gnads wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 3:17pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 1:14pm: With Netanyahu carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is "anti-semitic", I reckon the guys who bombed the vacant synagogue might have a legitimate cause - unlike in Nazi germany -  even if the methods of the two bombers are not lawful.  This morning Karvelis faied to ask a Jewish woman bleating about "anti-semtism" whether she thought the ICC is "anti semetic".  Deplorable.  The book of worship in the synagogue proclaims Jews as "The Chosen People" to whom belongs "The Promised Land". Both OT (ie, Jewish Bible) assertions are incompatible with international law.   You're just another useful idiot to the terrorist cause of Hezbollah & Hamas. Certainly I understand WHY Hamas etc have turned to terrorism, after the UN in its wisdom decided to partition Palestine...and 7 decades later there is still no Palestinian state, because Israelis - supported by ugly ideologues in the US - keep accusing the PLA of not wanting to negotiate, as an excuse to keep expanding the illegal settlements  in the WB.    [Way back when UN res 242 was adopted, a sticking point was the phrase "withdraw from (the)  occupied terriories"; there was argument over whether the word  "the" was in the language of  original resolution or not. Disgraceful; the UNSC should have  enforced withdrawal from (the?) occupied territories , since the parties were incapable of "negotiation" re the border after the  1967 war. But the US with its UNSC veto is a bad actor in Palestine, being controlled by the US's  unholy alliance of Jewish zealots and RW Christian 'Revelation' literalists.  Quote: There is no phukkin genocide by Israelis. 40,000 noncombatants slaughtered since Oct 7th and ongoing: 157 members in the UNGA say enough is enough in this 7 decade long war.

Hamas didn't "turn" to terrorism - it is born of terrorism.

Explain why Egypt in the 19 years it had control over Gaza 48 to 67 - and Jordan in the same time had control of the West Bank(illegally) never made an offer to so called Palestinians to set up a free state?

They went to war with Israel who had agreed to a 2 state solution .... and they lost that war.

So the West Bank has never been Palestinian & there are no illegal Jewish settler citizens there.

40,000 non-combatants? ;D Yeah - when the vast majority of Palestinians support Hamas ..... I call BS.

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Anthony Albanese vows to financially support rebuilding of Adass Israel Synagogue 8-)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 2:32pm:

Anthony Albanese vows to financially support rebuilding of Adass Israel Synagogue 8-)

I think he means the Australia taxpayer will pay.

Gnads wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 11:37am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 4:56pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 3:17pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 1:14pm: With Netanyahu carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is "anti-semitic", I reckon the guys who bombed the vacant synagogue might have a legitimate cause - unlike in Nazi germany -  even if the methods of the two bombers are not lawful.  This morning Karvelis faied to ask a Jewish woman bleating about "anti-semtism" whether she thought the ICC is "anti semetic".  Deplorable.  The book of worship in the synagogue proclaims Jews as "The Chosen People" to whom belongs "The Promised Land". Both OT (ie, Jewish Bible) assertions are incompatible with international law.   You're just another useful idiot to the terrorist cause of Hezbollah & Hamas. Certainly I understand WHY Hamas etc have turned to terrorism, after the UN in its wisdom decided to partition Palestine...and 7 decades later there is still no Palestinian state, because Israelis - supported by ugly ideologues in the US - keep accusing the PLA of not wanting to negotiate, as an excuse to keep expanding the illegal settlements  in the WB.    [Way back when UN res 242 was adopted, a sticking point was the phrase "withdraw from (the)  occupied terriories"; there was argument over whether the word  "the" was in the language of  original resolution or not. Disgraceful; the UNSC should have  enforced withdrawal from (the?) occupied territories , since the parties were incapable of "negotiation" re the border after the  1967 war. But the US with its UNSC veto is a bad actor in Palestine, being controlled by the US's  unholy alliance of Jewish zealots and RW Christian 'Revelation' literalists.  Quote: There is no phukkin genocide by Israelis. 40,000 noncombatants slaughtered since Oct 7th and ongoing: 157 members in the UNGA say enough is enough in this 7 decade long war.  Hamas didn't "turn" to terrorism - it is born of terrorism.

No,  Islamic terrorism  is born of the UN's bungled partition of Palestine (long before Hamas existed) - with the  recognition of Israel, but without the recognition of the Palestinian state, as per UN res. 181.


Quote:

Explain why Egypt in the 19 years it had control over Gaza 48 to 67 - and Jordan in the same time had control of the West Bank(illegally) never made an offer to so called Palestinians to set up a free state?

Because the Arab world resented the confiscation of half of Palestine.. Lawrence of Arabia had promised the Arabs soveveignty over Palestine,  in return for assistance against the Ottoman empire.

But the British reneged on that promise, and eventually they were forced out of Palestine by Jews, and belatedly handed the old Palestine Mandate to the UN.


Quote:

They went to war with Israel who had agreed to a 2 state solution .... and they lost that war.

The UN should not have recognized Israel until the fighting which began in 1947 was stopped by the UNSC, and the 2 states implemented with security guaranted by  the UNSC. 


Quote:

So the West Bank has never been Palestinian & there are no illegal Jewish settler citizens there.

Now the laughable, false RW ideology appears; Palestinians have lived in what is now termed the WB since the Arab conquest of Palistinae from the Byzantine empire, in the 7th century AD.   


Quote:

40,000 non-combatants? ;D Yeah - when the vast majority of Palestinians support Hamas ..... I call BS.

The world calls it genocide, let's see what  the ICC says.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 3:46pm:

Gnads wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 11:37am: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 4:56pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 3:17pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 1:14pm: With Netanyahu carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is "anti-semitic", I reckon the guys who bombed the vacant synagogue might have a legitimate cause - unlike in Nazi germany -  even if the methods of the two bombers are not lawful.  This morning Karvelis faied to ask a Jewish woman bleating about "anti-semtism" whether she thought the ICC is "anti semetic".  Deplorable.  The book of worship in the synagogue proclaims Jews as "The Chosen People" to whom belongs "The Promised Land". Both OT (ie, Jewish Bible) assertions are incompatible with international law.   You're just another useful idiot to the terrorist cause of Hezbollah & Hamas. Certainly I understand WHY Hamas etc have turned to terrorism, after the UN in its wisdom decided to partition Palestine...and 7 decades later there is still no Palestinian state, because Israelis - supported by ugly ideologues in the US - keep accusing the PLA of not wanting to negotiate, as an excuse to keep expanding the illegal settlements  in the WB.    [Way back when UN res 242 was adopted, a sticking point was the phrase "withdraw from (the)  occupied terriories"; there was argument over whether the word  "the" was in the language of  original resolution or not. Disgraceful; the UNSC should have  enforced withdrawal from (the?) occupied territories , since the parties were incapable of "negotiation" re the border after the  1967 war. But the US with its UNSC veto is a bad actor in Palestine, being controlled by the US's  unholy alliance of Jewish zealots and RW Christian 'Revelation' literalists.  Quote: There is no phukkin genocide by Israelis. 40,000 noncombatants slaughtered since Oct 7th and ongoing: 157 members in the UNGA say enough is enough in this 7 decade long war.  Hamas didn't "turn" to terrorism - it is born of terrorism. No,  Islamic terrorism  is born of the UN's bungled partition of Palestine (long before Hamas existed) - with the  recognition of Israel, but without the recognition of the Palestinian state, as per UN res. 181. [quote]Explain why Egypt in the 19 years it had control over Gaza 48 to 67 - and Jordan in the same time had control of the West Bank(illegally) never made an offer to so called Palestinians to set up a free state?

Because the Arab world resented the confiscation of half of Palestine.. Lawrence of Arabia had promised the Arabs soveveignty over Palestine,  in return for assistance against the Ottoman empire.

But the British reneged on that promise, and eventually they were forced out of Palestine by Jews, and belatedly handed the old Palestine Mandate to the UN.


Quote:

They went to war with Israel who had agreed to a 2 state solution .... and they lost that war.

The UN should not have recognized Israel until the fighting which began in 1947 was stopped by the UNSC, and the 2 states implemented with security guaranted by  the UNSC. 


Quote:

So the West Bank has never been Palestinian & there are no illegal Jewish settler citizens there.

Now the laughable, false RW ideology appears; Palestinians have lived in what is now termed the WB since the Arab conquest of Palistinae from the Byzantine empire, in the 7th century AD.   


Quote:

40,000 non-combatants? ;D Yeah - when the vast majority of Palestinians support Hamas ..... I call BS.

The world calls it genocide, let's see what  the ICC says.




[/quote]
Israel accepted the UN partition plan, the Arabs didn't.  Nor any of the other half dozen offers of statehood since 1948.


Whose fault is that?

Leroy wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 3:09pm:

Australia taxpayer will pay.

1/2 cent each person.
Or bring a dove, sheep or bull for sacrifice with the first crop of barley and wheat.

Frank wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 4:21pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 3:46pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 11:37am: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 4:56pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 3:17pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 1:14pm: With Netanyahu carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is "anti-semitic", I reckon the guys who bombed the vacant synagogue might have a legitimate cause - unlike in Nazi germany -  even if the methods of the two bombers are not lawful.  This morning Karvelis faied to ask a Jewish woman bleating about "anti-semtism" whether she thought the ICC is "anti semetic".  Deplorable.  The book of worship in the synagogue proclaims Jews as "The Chosen People" to whom belongs "The Promised Land". Both OT (ie, Jewish Bible) assertions are incompatible with international law.   You're just another useful idiot to the terrorist cause of Hezbollah & Hamas. Certainly I understand WHY Hamas etc have turned to terrorism, after the UN in its wisdom decided to partition Palestine...and 7 decades later there is still no Palestinian state, because Israelis - supported by ugly ideologues in the US - keep accusing the PLA of not wanting to negotiate, as an excuse to keep expanding the illegal settlements  in the WB.    [Way back when UN res 242 was adopted, a sticking point was the phrase "withdraw from (the)  occupied terriories"; there was argument over whether the word  "the" was in the language of  original resolution or not. Disgraceful; the UNSC should have  enforced withdrawal from (the?) occupied territories , since the parties were incapable of "negotiation" re the border after the  1967 war. But the US with its UNSC veto is a bad actor in Palestine, being controlled by the US's  unholy alliance of Jewish zealots and RW Christian 'Revelation' literalists.  Quote: There is no phukkin genocide by Israelis. 40,000 noncombatants slaughtered since Oct 7th and ongoing: 157 members in the UNGA say enough is enough in this 7 decade long war.  Hamas didn't "turn" to terrorism - it is born of terrorism. No,  Islamic terrorism  is born of the UN's bungled partition of Palestine (long before Hamas existed) - with the  recognition of Israel, but without the recognition of the Palestinian state, as per UN res. 181. [quote]Explain why Egypt in the 19 years it had control over Gaza 48 to 67 - and Jordan in the same time had control of the West Bank(illegally) never made an offer to so called Palestinians to set up a free state? Because the Arab world resented the confiscation of half of Palestine.. Lawrence of Arabia had promised the Arabs soveveignty over Palestine,  in return for assistance against the Ottoman empire. But the British reneged on that promise, and eventually they were forced out of Palestine by Jews, and belatedly handed the old Palestine Mandate to the UN. [quote]They went to war with Israel who had agreed to a 2 state solution .... and they lost that war.

The UN should not have recognized Israel until the fighting which began in 1947 was stopped by the UNSC, and the 2 states implemented with security guaranted by  the UNSC. 


Quote:

So the West Bank has never been Palestinian & there are no illegal Jewish settler citizens there.

Now the laughable, false RW ideology appears; Palestinians have lived in what is now termed the WB since the Arab conquest of Palistinae from the Byzantine empire, in the 7th century AD.   


Quote:

40,000 non-combatants? ;D Yeah - when the vast majority of Palestinians support Hamas ..... I call BS.

The world calls it genocide, let's see what  the ICC says.

[/quote]
Israel accepted the UN partition plan, the Arabs didn't.  Nor any of the other half dozen offers of statehood since 1948.[/quote]

(sigh) even after I explained WHY the partition plan agreed by the majority of UN members, but rejected by the Arab states (and Palestinians),  was the immediate cause of war (from 1947 on),  you still can't see the situation from the Arab viewpoint: it was Arab land (half of Palestine) which the Palestinians were being told to give up, by the UN. 

Of course Jews were in favor; but the Arab world remained opposed to the creation of Israel, until Arab inability  to defeat Israel forced them to negotiate at Camp David.

But  Camp David  is where US power  melted in the face of Jew ideology re Jerusalem, and allowed negotiations to stall.

So no outcome; Rabin was soon to be murdered by a Jew spouting the OT.......and here are,  with an ongoing genocide from both sides.


Quote:

Whose fault is that?

The UN. It should never have recognized Israel until the UNSC could guarantee secure implementation of UN res. 181.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 4:51pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 4:21pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 3:46pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 11:37am: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 4:56pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 3:17pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 1:14pm: With Netanyahu carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is "anti-semitic", I reckon the guys who bombed the vacant synagogue might have a legitimate cause - unlike in Nazi germany -  even if the methods of the two bombers are not lawful.  This morning Karvelis faied to ask a Jewish woman bleating about "anti-semtism" whether she thought the ICC is "anti semetic".  Deplorable.  The book of worship in the synagogue proclaims Jews as "The Chosen People" to whom belongs "The Promised Land". Both OT (ie, Jewish Bible) assertions are incompatible with international law.   You're just another useful idiot to the terrorist cause of Hezbollah & Hamas. Certainly I understand WHY Hamas etc have turned to terrorism, after the UN in its wisdom decided to partition Palestine...and 7 decades later there is still no Palestinian state, because Israelis - supported by ugly ideologues in the US - keep accusing the PLA of not wanting to negotiate, as an excuse to keep expanding the illegal settlements  in the WB.    [Way back when UN res 242 was adopted, a sticking point was the phrase "withdraw from (the)  occupied terriories"; there was argument over whether the word  "the" was in the language of  original resolution or not. Disgraceful; the UNSC should have  enforced withdrawal from (the?) occupied territories , since the parties were incapable of "negotiation" re the border after the  1967 war. But the US with its UNSC veto is a bad actor in Palestine, being controlled by the US's  unholy alliance of Jewish zealots and RW Christian 'Revelation' literalists.  Quote: There is no phukkin genocide by Israelis. 40,000 noncombatants slaughtered since Oct 7th and ongoing: 157 members in the UNGA say enough is enough in this 7 decade long war.  Hamas didn't "turn" to terrorism - it is born of terrorism. No,  Islamic terrorism  is born of the UN's bungled partition of Palestine (long before Hamas existed) - with the  recognition of Israel, but without the recognition of the Palestinian state, as per UN res. 181. [quote]Explain why Egypt in the 19 years it had control over Gaza 48 to 67 - and Jordan in the same time had control of the West Bank(illegally) never made an offer to so called Palestinians to set up a free state? Because the Arab world resented the confiscation of half of Palestine.. Lawrence of Arabia had promised the Arabs soveveignty over Palestine,  in return for assistance against the Ottoman empire. But the British reneged on that promise, and eventually they were forced out of Palestine by Jews, and belatedly handed the old Palestine Mandate to the UN. [quote]They went to war with Israel who had agreed to a 2 state solution .... and they lost that war. The UN should not have recognized Israel until the fighting which began in 1947 was stopped by the UNSC, and the 2 states implemented with security guaranted by  the UNSC.  [quote]So the West Bank has never been Palestinian & there are no illegal Jewish settler citizens there.

Now the laughable, false RW ideology appears; Palestinians have lived in what is now termed the WB since the Arab conquest of Palistinae from the Byzantine empire, in the 7th century AD.   


Quote:

40,000 non-combatants? ;D Yeah - when the vast majority of Palestinians support Hamas ..... I call BS.

The world calls it genocide, let's see what  the ICC says.

[/quote]
Israel accepted the UN partition plan, the Arabs didn't.  Nor any of the other half dozen offers of statehood since 1948.[/quote]

(sigh) even after I explained WHY the partition plan agreed by the majority of UN members, but rejected by the Arab states (and Palestinians),  was the immediate cause of war (from 1947 on),  you still can't see the situation from the Arab viewpoint: it was Arab land (half of Palestine) which the Palestinians were being told to give up, by the UN. 

Of course Jews were in favor; but the Arab world remained opposed to the creation of Israel, until Arab inability  to defeat Israel forced them to negotiate at Camp David.

But  Camp David  is where US power  melted in the face of Jew ideology re Jerusalem, and allowed negotiations to stall.

So no outcome; Rabin was soon to be murdered by a Jew spouting the OT.......and here are,  with an ongoing genocide from both sides.


Quote:

Whose fault is that?

The UN. It should never have recognized Israel until the UNSC could guarantee secure implementation of UN res. 181.
[/quote]

So the Palestinians do not want two states.

They want one, from the Jordan River to the Med Sea.

Well, t that's not going to work without another holocaust. Which is what Hamas Heb'allah, Iran, Isis, Al Qaeda and lots of Muslims, Greens, nazis etc on Australian streets want.

Ta.

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Valkie wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 5:57pm:

Wherever the CULT OF DEAT GOES. CIVILIZATION SUFFERS.

"Listen to the Word of God: Smite them all and spare them not -  men, women,  children and sucklings..."

1 Samuel 15, 1-3.

Muhammud chose the wrong god for his new religion....

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2024 at 12:28pm:

Muhammud chose the wrong god for his new religion....

So you believe in more than one God?  Or perhaps a singular God, known by many names?

Frank wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 5:11pm:

So the Palestinians do not want two states.

ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution#:~:text=The%20Palestinian%20Authority%20supports%20the,creation%20of%20a%20Palestinian%20state.

The Palestinian Authority supports the idea of a two-state solution;[11] Israel at times has also supported the idea, but nowadays rejects the creation of a Palestinian state.

Do try to keep up.


Quote:

They want one, from the Jordan River to the Med Sea.

You have it back to front, see above. Don't rely on posters in demos to gain your knowledge; the PA is seeking two states, and most Arab governments also now accept it. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2024 at 12:40pm:

and most Arab governments also now accept it.

As long as they are not a part of it. NIMBY's. ::)

lee wrote on Dec 11^th, 2024 at 12:32pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 12:28pm: Muhammud chose the wrong god for his new religion.... So you believe in more than one God?  Or perhaps a singular God, known by many names?

So lee has to ask me to help him understand the source of morality in the universe; the 2nd option is closer to, but not objective reality.

eg Jahweh and Allah  are the same God (according to the Koran). 

Perhaps you can say what you mean by "a singular God known by many names"....sounds like Christians getting themselves in a bind re '3 gods in one'...  which Muhammad (correctly) rejected...   

lee wrote on Dec 11^th, 2024 at 12:46pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 12:40pm: and most Arab governments also now accept it.  As long as they are not a part of it. NIMBY's. ::)

Er ...Arabia, Jordan, and Eygpt ARE in the backyard.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2024 at 1:05pm:

Er ...Arabia, Jordan, and Eygpt ARE in the backyard.

NOT in a PALESTINIAN backyard. "Not in my country'. ::)

Israel not only initiated the Two State Solution (same as here with our Aborigines - it'll catch on if their Intifada keeps up), but still holds it out as The Solution - essentially a gift of ancient Hebrew land to these upstart Arab invaders.

What IS required is that Hamas and any and all similar organisations have no place there.... only the peaceful Arabs.... well - there goes the whole ball game... all those little kids raised with a gun and a bomb in their hands will take a lot of work to get that out of their heads.... a generation at least, probably two - just to clear it out and re-boot.  The only solution therefore - is a very wide safety margin around Israel's borders - which........ **drrrrummmm roooooollls** .... the UN MUST ensure before it opens its mouth any wider to accommodate Arab members...!!

.... ain't that a fine turn of phrase? .......

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 11^th, 2024 at 1:06pm:

Israel not only initiated the Two State Solution...

Cool....your very first sentence is absolute nonsense, which will save me the time having to read the resulting GIGO which follows. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2024 at 1:00pm:

So lee has to ask me to help him understand the source of morality in the universe; the 2nd option is closer to, but not objective reality. eg Jahweh and Allah  are the same God (according to the Koran).

Yes. And?


thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2024 at 1:00pm:

Perhaps you can say what you mean by "a singular God known by many names"....sounds like Christians getting themselves in a bind re '3 gods in one'...  which Muhammad (correctly) rejected...

So you don't believe the various gods of the native tribes may be the same God by a different name? ::)  That only those who believe in Allah or God would enter Heaven? With or without the 72 virgins. Can those not virgins be made "whole" again? ;)

"which Muhammad (correctly) rejected" - How could Jesus, being known as the Son of God, be God? Sounds like a version of "I'm my own Grandpa". ;)

lee wrote on Dec 11^th, 2024 at 1:06pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 1:05pm: Er ...Arabia, Jordan, and Eygpt ARE in the backyard. NOT in a PALESTINIAN backyard. "Not in my country'. ::)

Poor RW crippled-brain lee, can't discuss the source of morality in the world, so gets himself all confused over neighbouring Arab states who accept the 2-state solution, which is what the UNGA recently voted for, 157 to 8 lee- type losers.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2024 at 1:15pm:

Poor RW crippled-brain lee, can't discuss the source of morality in the world, so gets himself all confused over neighbouring Arab states who accept the 2-state solution, which is what the UNGA recently voted for, 157 to 8 lee- type losers.

So Morality has a source? Which morality Islam , Christian or other? ;)

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2024 at 12:40pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 5:11pm: So the Palestinians do not want two states. ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution#:~:text=The%20Palestinian%20Authority%20supports%20the,creation%20of%20a%20Palestinian%20state. The Palestinian Authority supports the idea of a two-state solution;[11] Israel at times has also supported the idea, but nowadays rejects the creation of a Palestinian state. Do try to keep up. Quote: They want one, from the Jordan River to the Med Sea. You have it back to front, see above. Don't rely on posters in demos to gain your knowledge; the PA is seeking two states, and most Arab governments also now accept it.

The Jews accepted the first two-state solution put to them and the Arabs by the UN in 1948.

How many two state solutions have the Palestinians rejected since then?

Six.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 3:46pm:

Gnads wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 11:37am: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 4:56pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 3:17pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 1:14pm: With Netanyahu carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is "anti-semitic", I reckon the guys who bombed the vacant synagogue might have a legitimate cause - unlike in Nazi germany -  even if the methods of the two bombers are not lawful.  This morning Karvelis faied to ask a Jewish woman bleating about "anti-semtism" whether she thought the ICC is "anti semetic".  Deplorable.  The book of worship in the synagogue proclaims Jews as "The Chosen People" to whom belongs "The Promised Land". Both OT (ie, Jewish Bible) assertions are incompatible with international law.   You're just another useful idiot to the terrorist cause of Hezbollah & Hamas. Certainly I understand WHY Hamas etc have turned to terrorism, after the UN in its wisdom decided to partition Palestine...and 7 decades later there is still no Palestinian state, because Israelis - supported by ugly ideologues in the US - keep accusing the PLA of not wanting to negotiate, as an excuse to keep expanding the illegal settlements  in the WB.    [Way back when UN res 242 was adopted, a sticking point was the phrase "withdraw from (the)  occupied terriories"; there was argument over whether the word  "the" was in the language of  original resolution or not. Disgraceful; the UNSC should have  enforced withdrawal from (the?) occupied territories , since the parties were incapable of "negotiation" re the border after the  1967 war. But the US with its UNSC veto is a bad actor in Palestine, being controlled by the US's  unholy alliance of Jewish zealots and RW Christian 'Revelation' literalists.  Quote: There is no phukkin genocide by Israelis. 40,000 noncombatants slaughtered since Oct 7th and ongoing: 157 members in the UNGA say enough is enough in this 7 decade long war.  Hamas didn't "turn" to terrorism - it is born of terrorism. No,  Islamic terrorism  is born of the UN's bungled partition of Palestine (long before Hamas existed) - with the  recognition of Israel, but without the recognition of the Palestinian state, as per UN res. 181. [quote]Explain why Egypt in the 19 years it had control over Gaza 48 to 67 - and Jordan in the same time had control of the West Bank(illegally) never made an offer to so called Palestinians to set up a free state?

Because the Arab world resented the confiscation of half of Palestine.. Lawrence of Arabia had promised the Arabs soveveignty over Palestine,  in return for assistance against the Ottoman empire.

But the British reneged on that promise, and eventually they were forced out of Palestine by Jews, and belatedly handed the old Palestine Mandate to the UN.


Quote:

They went to war with Israel who had agreed to a 2 state solution .... and they lost that war.

The UN should not have recognized Israel until the fighting which began in 1947 was stopped by the UNSC, and the 2 states implemented with security guaranted by  the UNSC. 


Quote:

So the West Bank has never been Palestinian & there are no illegal Jewish settler citizens there.

Now the laughable, false RW ideology appears; Palestinians have lived in what is now termed the WB since the Arab conquest of Palistinae from the Byzantine empire, in the 7th century AD.   


Quote:

40,000 non-combatants? ;D Yeah - when the vast majority of Palestinians support Hamas ..... I call BS.

The world calls it genocide, let's see what  the ICC says.




[/quote]

The Jews have been there for over 2,500 years & a 1,000 years before the advent of Islam.

The world doesn't call it genocide - so few speaking for so many ..... typical leftiods.

Who murdered & drove Jews out of the ME?
Wouldn't have been Arab Muslims?
Couldn't have been considered a genocide?

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Gnads wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 3:14pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 11:58am: It's hard to tell with you, but I don't know if you pro- or against- firebombing a synagogue. Care to provide your views on the story? Here's a counter to all you pro-Palestinian/pro-hamas/Hezbollah terrorists.

I assume that's directed at me, since you replied directly to me.

If you're going to make an accusation like that about me, you're going to need to quote where I've said that I support those views, or take it back.

SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 11^th, 2024 at 4:09pm:

Gnads wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 3:14pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 11:58am: It's hard to tell with you, but I don't know if you pro- or against- firebombing a synagogue. Care to provide your views on the story? Here's a counter to all you pro-Palestinian/pro-hamas/Hezbollah terrorists. I assume that's directed at me, since you replied directly to me. If you're going to make an accusation like that about me, you're going to need to quote where I've said that I support those views, or take it back.

Well - you screech 'racist' and stuff at people for simply discussing endemic Aboriginal problems and Bad Mussos and such... you should just brush that off as being in the same vein..... tit for tat - though I prefer tits to tats.....

So - what is your stance on the Mad Musso jihading etc?  Justified against Jews?  What about the Rottball Lefty 'students' - the great and fearless leaders of tomorrow (god help Australia) who imagine they are doing the noble deed for The Great Cause by abusing Jewish students and raving about the poor Gazan murderers?

They should be made to wait until they grow into their noses.... or be stripped of their student status, charged, having their student cash withdrawn, and being forbidden entry to any house of learning until they have made full restitution...... crawl for a mile down Broadway ....
https://media1.tenor.com/m/assf_6gEdn4AAAAd/monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-head-smack.gif

.... until they reach Railway square... then prostrate themselves in front of the Great Synagogue, and beg forgiveness... before a weekend in the town stocks during winter rain, followed by a public flogging and castigation.... (I said castigation, Igor - put away that knife).... followed by a parade through the Eastern Suburbs naked on the back of a crocodile... 

That should do it .......................

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img641/9394/yawnr.gif

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 11^th, 2024 at 4:14pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 4:09pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 3:14pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 11:58am: It's hard to tell with you, but I don't know if you pro- or against- firebombing a synagogue. Care to provide your views on the story? Here's a counter to all you pro-Palestinian/pro-hamas/Hezbollah terrorists. I assume that's directed at me, since you replied directly to me. If you're going to make an accusation like that about me, you're going to need to quote where I've said that I support those views, or take it back. Well - you screech 'racist' and stuff at people for simply discussing endemic Aboriginal problems and Bad Mussos and such... you should just brush that off as being in the same vein..... tit for tat - though I prefer tits to tats.....

Because you constantly use racial slurs, advocate for their murder and genocide and lament the fact the British didn't wipe them out during colonisation.

Me asking you for clarification if you're for or against the firebombing of a synagogue is hardly the same thing.

Frank wrote on Dec 11^th, 2024 at 1:55pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 12:40pm: Frank wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 5:11pm: So the Palestinians do not want two states. ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution#:~:text=The%20Palestinian%20Authority%20supports%20the,creation%20of%20a%20Palestinian%20state. The Palestinian Authority supports the idea of a two-state solution;[11] Israel at times has also supported the idea, but nowadays rejects the creation of a Palestinian state. Do try to keep up. Quote: They want one, from the Jordan River to the Med Sea. You have it back to front, see above. Don't rely on posters in demos to gain your knowledge; the PA is seeking two states, and most Arab governments also now accept it.  The Jews accepted the first two-state solution put to them and the Arabs by the UN in 1948.

But the Arab world didn't, beause Palestine had been in Arab hands since the 7th century Arab conquest of Palestinae, ie after 1300 years, Arabs considered Palestine to be theirs.  (Israel had ceased to exist back  in Roman times...before the UN had determined "the conquest of territory by force is inadmissible" : UN res 242)..



Quote:

How many two state solutions have the Palestinians rejected since then?

After 1967, none: the US Jewish and RW Christian lobby were never going to accept anything less than Jewish sovereignty over all of Jerusalem, despite the terms of UN res 242.

[/quioteSix.[/quote]

See above; the US kept blocking implementation of UN242, with continuous UNSC vetos, on behalf of Jewish mythology about Jerusalem. That's why the Camp David summit negotiations failed. 

Re the current heated debate  re "antisemitism" in Oz, I'm not arguing against Jewish identity. I'm arguing against the ongoing genocide carried out by both sides in the never ending Palestine/Israel war.

Like the 157 members of the UNGA who voted  to end the war as per the 2 state solution. 

Your blind ideology - supported by only 8 members,  (and only one of them a wealthy first world country....)
is THE stumblimg block.

Gnads wrote on Dec 11^th, 2024 at 3:05pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 3:46pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 11:37am: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 4:56pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 3:17pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 1:14pm: With Netanyahu carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is "anti-semitic", I reckon the guys who bombed the vacant synagogue might have a legitimate cause - unlike in Nazi germany -  even if the methods of the two bombers are not lawful.  This morning Karvelis faied to ask a Jewish woman bleating about "anti-semtism" whether she thought the ICC is "anti semetic".  Deplorable.  The book of worship in the synagogue proclaims Jews as "The Chosen People" to whom belongs "The Promised Land". Both OT (ie, Jewish Bible) assertions are incompatible with international law.   You're just another useful idiot to the terrorist cause of Hezbollah & Hamas. Certainly I understand WHY Hamas etc have turned to terrorism, after the UN in its wisdom decided to partition Palestine...and 7 decades later there is still no Palestinian state, because Israelis - supported by ugly ideologues in the US - keep accusing the PLA of not wanting to negotiate, as an excuse to keep expanding the illegal settlements  in the WB.    [Way back when UN res 242 was adopted, a sticking point was the phrase "withdraw from (the)  occupied terriories"; there was argument over whether the word  "the" was in the language of  original resolution or not. Disgraceful; the UNSC should have  enforced withdrawal from (the?) occupied territories , since the parties were incapable of "negotiation" re the border after the  1967 war. But the US with its UNSC veto is a bad actor in Palestine, being controlled by the US's  unholy alliance of Jewish zealots and RW Christian 'Revelation' literalists.  Quote: There is no phukkin genocide by Israelis. 40,000 noncombatants slaughtered since Oct 7th and ongoing: 157 members in the UNGA say enough is enough in this 7 decade long war.  Hamas didn't "turn" to terrorism - it is born of terrorism. No,  Islamic terrorism  is born of the UN's bungled partition of Palestine (long before Hamas existed) - with the  recognition of Israel, but without the recognition of the Palestinian state, as per UN res. 181. [quote]Explain why Egypt in the 19 years it had control over Gaza 48 to 67 - and Jordan in the same time had control of the West Bank(illegally) never made an offer to so called Palestinians to set up a free state? Because the Arab world resented the confiscation of half of Palestine.. Lawrence of Arabia had promised the Arabs soveveignty over Palestine,  in return for assistance against the Ottoman empire. But the British reneged on that promise, and eventually they were forced out of Palestine by Jews, and belatedly handed the old Palestine Mandate to the UN. [quote]They went to war with Israel who had agreed to a 2 state solution .... and they lost that war.

The UN should not have recognized Israel until the fighting which began in 1947 was stopped by the UNSC, and the 2 states implemented with security guaranted by  the UNSC. 


Quote:

So the West Bank has never been Palestinian & there are no illegal Jewish settler citizens there.

Now the laughable, false RW ideology appears; Palestinians have lived in what is now termed the WB since the Arab conquest of Palistinae from the Byzantine empire, in the 7th century AD.   


Quote:

40,000 non-combatants? ;D Yeah - when the vast majority of Palestinians support Hamas ..... I call BS.

The world calls it genocide, let's see what  the ICC says.
[/quote]

The Jews have been there for over 2,500 years & a 1,000 years before the advent of Islam. [/quote]

Correct, but the state of Israel ceased to exist in the 1st century AD, when it became 'Syria Palestina' under the Romans, and later  'Palestinae' under the Byzantines, until the Arab conquest and the area was known as 'Filastin'.   


Quote:

The world doesn't call it genocide - so few speaking for so many ..... typical leftiods.

and yet Netanyahu has an arrest warrant against him (and the Hamas leader who Israel has eliminated...) issued by the ICC, the world's top international court.


Quote:

Who murdered & drove Jews out of the ME?

Romans - back in the days before the UN determined  "the acquisition of territory by force is inadmissible": UN)


Quote:

Wouldn't have been Arab Muslims?

No; actually the commander of the Muslim invasion of Byzantine Palestinae allowed the Jews still living there to remain,  in fact the Jews were glad to see the oppresive Jew-hating (Christian) Byzantines gone. 


Quote:

Couldn't have been considered a genocide?

The Arab conquest?

No, as explained by the facts of history,  above.

   

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 10:03am:

No; actually the commander of the Muslim invasion of Byzantine Palestinae allowed the Jews still living there to remain,  in fact the Jews were glad to see the oppresive Jew-hating (Christian) Byzantines gone.

Until the 1960s, approximately one million Jews lived in Iran and other Arab countries having arrived in the region more than 2,000 years before. Nowadays, it is estimated that only around 15,000 remain, as the majority of the Jewish population in Muslim lands were forced to flee their homes in the years following the establishment of the State of Israel. This mass expulsion and exodus is part of modern history, but inexplicably, it’s neither taught at schools nor remembered within the context of the conflicts in the Middle East.

For over 2,500 years, Jews lived continuously in North Africa, the Middle East and the Gulf region the first Jewish population had already settled there at least 1,000 years before the advent of Islam.

Despite the positive influence that Jews brought to the places where they lived, more than 850,000 Jews were forced to leave their homes in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Morocco, and several other Arab countries in the 20 years that followed the Arab-Israeli war of 1948. Another major forced migration took place from Iran in 1979–80, following the Iranian Revolution and the collapse of the shah’s regime, adding 70,000 more Jewish refugees to this number.

In 1947, the Political Committee of the Arab League (League of Arab States) drafted a law that was to govern the legal status of Jewish residents in all of its member states. This Draft Law of the Arab League provided that “...all Jews – with the exception of citizens of non-Arab countries – were to be considered members of the Jewish ‘minority state of Palestine’; that their bank accounts would be frozen and used to finance resistance to ‘Zionist ambitions in Palestine; Jews believed to be active Zionists would be interned as political prisoners and their assets confiscated; only Jews who accept active service in Arab armies or place themselves at the disposal of these armies would be considered ‘Arabs.”

https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/the-expulsion-of-jews-from-arab-countries-and-iran--an-untold-history


Cuddly, tolerant Islam, eh?

lee wrote on Dec 11^th, 2024 at 1:20pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 1:15pm: Poor RW crippled-brain lee, can't discuss the source of morality in the world, so gets himself all confused over neighbouring Arab states who accept the 2-state solution, which is what the UNGA recently voted for, 157 to 8 lee- type losers. So Morality has a source? Which morality Islam , Christian or other? ;)

The  crippled RW Conservative brain can't think for himself, wants me to explain it for him. 

We have to consider what a "source" of morality refers to, as opposed to AWARENESS of morality,   in the context of a discussion about morality and religion. 

The source of morality is a mystery involving questions like

is the universe created or eternal?

who created it, if it was created?

The world's religions have attempted to answer such questions, but any answers are inadequate because the  human brain cannot understand infinity. 

BUT

the AWARENESS of morality arose in the  (evolved) human cerebral cortex; it's that awareness of self and others, including awareness of conflicting desires, which separates us  from the animals.

But instinctive survival mechanisms in all creatures, combined with egregious Conservative self-interest over-rules morality, in favour of war and entrenched poverty among the losers in the competition for resources.

Here endeth the first lesson....(as my Sunday school teacher used to say...)

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 10:03am:

Gnads wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 3:05pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 3:46pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 11:37am: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 4:56pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 3:17pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 1:14pm: With Netanyahu carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is "anti-semitic", I reckon the guys who bombed the vacant synagogue might have a legitimate cause - unlike in Nazi germany -  even if the methods of the two bombers are not lawful.  This morning Karvelis faied to ask a Jewish woman bleating about "anti-semtism" whether she thought the ICC is "anti semetic".  Deplorable.  The book of worship in the synagogue proclaims Jews as "The Chosen People" to whom belongs "The Promised Land". Both OT (ie, Jewish Bible) assertions are incompatible with international law.   You're just another useful idiot to the terrorist cause of Hezbollah & Hamas. Certainly I understand WHY Hamas etc have turned to terrorism, after the UN in its wisdom decided to partition Palestine...and 7 decades later there is still no Palestinian state, because Israelis - supported by ugly ideologues in the US - keep accusing the PLA of not wanting to negotiate, as an excuse to keep expanding the illegal settlements  in the WB.    [Way back when UN res 242 was adopted, a sticking point was the phrase "withdraw from (the)  occupied terriories"; there was argument over whether the word  "the" was in the language of  original resolution or not. Disgraceful; the UNSC should have  enforced withdrawal from (the?) occupied territories , since the parties were incapable of "negotiation" re the border after the  1967 war. But the US with its UNSC veto is a bad actor in Palestine, being controlled by the US's  unholy alliance of Jewish zealots and RW Christian 'Revelation' literalists.  Quote: There is no phukkin genocide by Israelis. 40,000 noncombatants slaughtered since Oct 7th and ongoing: 157 members in the UNGA say enough is enough in this 7 decade long war.  Hamas didn't "turn" to terrorism - it is born of terrorism. No,  Islamic terrorism  is born of the UN's bungled partition of Palestine (long before Hamas existed) - with the  recognition of Israel, but without the recognition of the Palestinian state, as per UN res. 181. [quote]Explain why Egypt in the 19 years it had control over Gaza 48 to 67 - and Jordan in the same time had control of the West Bank(illegally) never made an offer to so called Palestinians to set up a free state? Because the Arab world resented the confiscation of half of Palestine.. Lawrence of Arabia had promised the Arabs soveveignty over Palestine,  in return for assistance against the Ottoman empire. But the British reneged on that promise, and eventually they were forced out of Palestine by Jews, and belatedly handed the old Palestine Mandate to the UN. [quote]They went to war with Israel who had agreed to a 2 state solution .... and they lost that war. The UN should not have recognized Israel until the fighting which began in 1947 was stopped by the UNSC, and the 2 states implemented with security guaranted by  the UNSC.  [quote]So the West Bank has never been Palestinian & there are no illegal Jewish settler citizens there.

Now the laughable, false RW ideology appears; Palestinians have lived in what is now termed the WB since the Arab conquest of Palistinae from the Byzantine empire, in the 7th century AD.   


Quote:

40,000 non-combatants? ;D Yeah - when the vast majority of Palestinians support Hamas ..... I call BS.

The world calls it genocide, let's see what  the ICC says.
[/quote]

The Jews have been there for over 2,500 years & a 1,000 years before the advent of Islam. [/quote]

Correct, but the state of Israel ceased to exist in the 1st century AD, when it became 'Syria Palestina' under the Romans, and later  'Palestinae' under the Byzantines, until the Arab conquest and the area was known as 'Filastin'.   


Quote:

The world doesn't call it genocide - so few speaking for so many ..... typical leftiods.

and yet Netanyahu has an arrest warrant against him (and the Hamas leader who Israel has eliminated...) issued by the ICC, the world's top international court.


Quote:

Who murdered & drove Jews out of the ME?

Romans - back in the days before the UN determined  "the acquisition of territory by force is inadmissible": UN)


Quote:

Wouldn't have been Arab Muslims?

No; actually the commander of the Muslim invasion of Byzantine Palestinae allowed the Jews still living there to remain,  in fact the Jews were glad to see the oppresive Jew-hating (Christian) Byzantines gone. 


Quote:

Couldn't have been considered a genocide?

The Arab conquest?

No, as explained by the facts of history,  above.

   
[/quote]

Not me - I'm just here to see how many posts it takes to total the page....

168 words left... now what can I put in here...War and Peace:-

[font=Bradley Hand ITC]" “Well, Prince, so Genoa and Lucca are now just family estates of the Buona

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 10:32am:

lee wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 1:20pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 1:15pm: Poor RW crippled-brain lee, can't discuss the source of morality in the world, so gets himself all confused over neighbouring Arab states who accept the 2-state solution, which is what the UNGA recently voted for, 157 to 8 lee- type losers. So Morality has a source? Which morality Islam , Christian or other? ;) The  crippled RW Conservative brain can't think for himself, wants me to explain it for him.  We have to consider what a "source" of morality refers to, as opposed to AWARENESS of morality,   in the context of a discussion about morality and religion.  The source of morality is a mystery involving questions like is the universe created or eternal? who created it, if it was created? The world's religions have attempted to answer such questions, but any answers are inadequate because the  human brain cannot understand infinity.  BUT the AWARENESS of morality arose in the  (evolved) human cerebral cortex; it's that awareness of self and others, and there desireswhich separates us  from the animals. But instinctive survival mechanisms in all creatures, combined with egregious Conservative self-interest over-rules morality, in favour of war and entrenched poverty among the losers in the competition for resources. Here endeth the first lesson....(as my Sunday school teacher used to say...)

Today's gruel: hotch-potch,  with lashings of stupidity and self-contradictions.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 10:40am:

168 words left... now what can I put in here...War and Peace:-

War and peace...and morality.....;  explained in the post immediately before yours. (#92).

Hope this helps ....

Frank wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 10:43am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 10:32am: lee wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 1:20pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 1:15pm: Poor RW crippled-brain lee, can't discuss the source of morality in the world, so gets himself all confused over neighbouring Arab states who accept the 2-state solution, which is what the UNGA recently voted for, 157 to 8 lee- type losers. So Morality has a source? Which morality Islam , Christian or other? ;) The  crippled RW Conservative brain can't think for himself, wants me to explain it for him.  We have to consider what a "source" of morality refers to, as opposed to AWARENESS of morality,   in the context of a discussion about morality and religion.  The source of morality is a mystery involving questions like is the universe created or eternal? who created it, if it was created? The world's religions have attempted to answer such questions, but any answers are inadequate because the  human brain cannot understand infinity.  BUT the AWARENESS of morality arose in the  (evolved) human cerebral cortex; it's that awareness of self and others, and there desireswhich separates us  from the animals. But instinctive survival mechanisms in all creatures, combined with egregious Conservative self-interest over-rules morality, in favour of war and entrenched poverty among the losers in the competition for resources. Here endeth the first lesson....(as my Sunday school teacher used to say...) Today's gruel: hotch-potch,  with lashings of stupidity and self-contradictions.

Admitedly a discussion of the source/awareness of  morality is beyond your capacity; nevertheless you ought to be able to point to the "self-contradictions" in my post, to support your case re  "stupidity". 

Graps will be all ears....

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 10:52am:

Frank wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 10:43am: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 10:32am: lee wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 1:20pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 1:15pm: Poor RW crippled-brain lee, can't discuss the source of morality in the world, so gets himself all confused over neighbouring Arab states who accept the 2-state solution, which is what the UNGA recently voted for, 157 to 8 lee- type losers. So Morality has a source? Which morality Islam , Christian or other? ;) The  crippled RW Conservative brain can't think for himself, wants me to explain it for him.  We have to consider what a "source" of morality refers to, as opposed to AWARENESS of morality,   in the context of a discussion about morality and religion.  The source of morality is a mystery involving questions like is the universe created or eternal? who created it, if it was created? The world's religions have attempted to answer such questions, but any answers are inadequate because the  human brain cannot understand infinity.  BUT the AWARENESS of morality arose in the  (evolved) human cerebral cortex; it's that awareness of self and others, and there desireswhich separates us  from the animals. But instinctive survival mechanisms in all creatures, combined with egregious Conservative self-interest over-rules morality, in favour of war and entrenched poverty among the losers in the competition for resources. Here endeth the first lesson....(as my Sunday school teacher used to say...) Today's gruel: hotch-potch,  with lashings of stupidity and self-contradictions. Admitedly a discussion of the source/awareness of  morality is beyond your capacity; nevertheless you ought to be able to point to the "self-contradictions" in my post, to support your case re  "stupidity".  Graps will be all ears....

Lee can't discuss the source of morality, you say, because of RW brain.  But to you, the source of morality is a mystery to do with creation - So not about the brain.

But awareness of this mystery is about the brain, in the cerebral cortex where self awareness and awareness of others and their desires and our own arise. This is treated as what separates us from animals. Needless to say animals are also aware of others, of the desires of others and their own.

Then self-interested morality is smuggled in, forgetting that it was rooted, a few lines earlier in creation mysteries. And now the usual mantra about war and poverty can be parroted AS IF you had presented a logical argument that led you here.
But no. You said some stupid, contradictory nonsense about creation mysteries, cortex, awareness, desires, survival instinct -  and then, unrelatedly, folowing from nothing, parotted your usual bilge which you always parrot, no matter what preceeds it.
So your post was typical: a hotchpotch of ignorance and stupidity followed by war and poverty. I wonder why left out the UN and China as the answer to all our moral dilemmas, both at source and awareness level.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 10:32am:

The source of morality is a mystery involving questions like

So you don't know either. Thanks for clearing that up. ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 10:32am:

the AWARENESS of morality arose in the  (evolved) human cerebral cortex; it's that awareness of self and others, including awareness of conflicting desires, which separates us  from the animals.

So was that awareness instilled or evolved? Your conclusion is that evolved, through some unknown process. And completely unlikely. ;)

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 10:03am:

Gnads wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 3:05pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 3:46pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 11:37am: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 4:56pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 3:17pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 1:14pm: With Netanyahu carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is "anti-semitic", I reckon the guys who bombed the vacant synagogue might have a legitimate cause - unlike in Nazi germany -  even if the methods of the two bombers are not lawful.  This morning Karvelis faied to ask a Jewish woman bleating about "anti-semtism" whether she thought the ICC is "anti semetic".  Deplorable.  The book of worship in the synagogue proclaims Jews as "The Chosen People" to whom belongs "The Promised Land". Both OT (ie, Jewish Bible) assertions are incompatible with international law.   You're just another useful idiot to the terrorist cause of Hezbollah & Hamas. Certainly I understand WHY Hamas etc have turned to terrorism, after the UN in its wisdom decided to partition Palestine...and 7 decades later there is still no Palestinian state, because Israelis - supported by ugly ideologues in the US - keep accusing the PLA of not wanting to negotiate, as an excuse to keep expanding the illegal settlements  in the WB.    [Way back when UN res 242 was adopted, a sticking point was the phrase "withdraw from (the)  occupied terriories"; there was argument over whether the word  "the" was in the language of  original resolution or not. Disgraceful; the UNSC should have  enforced withdrawal from (the?) occupied territories , since the parties were incapable of "negotiation" re the border after the  1967 war. But the US with its UNSC veto is a bad actor in Palestine, being controlled by the US's  unholy alliance of Jewish zealots and RW Christian 'Revelation' literalists.  Quote: There is no phukkin genocide by Israelis. 40,000 noncombatants slaughtered since Oct 7th and ongoing: 157 members in the UNGA say enough is enough in this 7 decade long war.  Hamas didn't "turn" to terrorism - it is born of terrorism. No,  Islamic terrorism  is born of the UN's bungled partition of Palestine (long before Hamas existed) - with the  recognition of Israel, but without the recognition of the Palestinian state, as per UN res. 181. [quote]Explain why Egypt in the 19 years it had control over Gaza 48 to 67 - and Jordan in the same time had control of the West Bank(illegally) never made an offer to so called Palestinians to set up a free state? Because the Arab world resented the confiscation of half of Palestine.. Lawrence of Arabia had promised the Arabs soveveignty over Palestine,  in return for assistance against the Ottoman empire. But the British reneged on that promise, and eventually they were forced out of Palestine by Jews, and belatedly handed the old Palestine Mandate to the UN. [quote]They went to war with Israel who had agreed to a 2 state solution .... and they lost that war. The UN should not have recognized Israel until the fighting which began in 1947 was stopped by the UNSC, and the 2 states implemented with security guaranted by  the UNSC.  [quote]So the West Bank has never been Palestinian & there are no illegal Jewish settler citizens there.

Now the laughable, false RW ideology appears; Palestinians have lived in what is now termed the WB since the Arab conquest of Palistinae from the Byzantine empire, in the 7th century AD.   


Quote:

40,000 non-combatants? ;D Yeah - when the vast majority of Palestinians support Hamas ..... I call BS.

The world calls it genocide, let's see what  the ICC says.
[/quote]

The Jews have been there for over 2,500 years & a 1,000 years before the advent of Islam. [/quote]

Correct, but the state of Israel ceased to exist in the 1st century AD, when it became 'Syria Palestina' under the Romans, and later  'Palestinae' under the Byzantines, until the Arab conquest and the area was known as 'Filastin'.   


Quote:

The world doesn't call it genocide - so few speaking for so many ..... typical leftiods.

and yet Netanyahu has an arrest warrant against him (and the Hamas leader who Israel has eliminated...) issued by the ICC, the world's top international court.


Quote:

Who murdered & drove Jews out of the ME?

Romans - back in the days before the UN determined  "the acquisition of territory by force is inadmissible": UN)


Quote:

Wouldn't have been Arab Muslims?

No; actually the commander of the Muslim invasion of Byzantine Palestinae allowed the Jews still living there to remain,  in fact the Jews were glad to see the oppresive Jew-hating (Christian) Byzantines gone. 


Quote:

Couldn't have been considered a genocide?

The Arab conquest?

No, as explained by the facts of history,  above.

   
[/quote]

Yeah ... what a crock of shyte.

It shouldn't have been Israelis having to knock off Hamas terrorist leaders .... it should have been the International community.

The ICC is as big a joke as the UN & NATO.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 10:03am:

Gnads wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 3:05pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 3:46pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 11:37am: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 4:56pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 3:17pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 1:14pm: With Netanyahu carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is "anti-semitic", I reckon the guys who bombed the vacant synagogue might have a legitimate cause - unlike in Nazi germany -  even if the methods of the two bombers are not lawful.  This morning Karvelis faied to ask a Jewish woman bleating about "anti-semtism" whether she thought the ICC is "anti semetic".  Deplorable.  The book of worship in the synagogue proclaims Jews as "The Chosen People" to whom belongs "The Promised Land". Both OT (ie, Jewish Bible) assertions are incompatible with international law.   You're just another useful idiot to the terrorist cause of Hezbollah & Hamas. Certainly I understand WHY Hamas etc have turned to terrorism, after the UN in its wisdom decided to partition Palestine...and 7 decades later there is still no Palestinian state, because Israelis - supported by ugly ideologues in the US - keep accusing the PLA of not wanting to negotiate, as an excuse to keep expanding the illegal settlements  in the WB.    [Way back when UN res 242 was adopted, a sticking point was the phrase "withdraw from (the)  occupied terriories"; there was argument over whether the word  "the" was in the language of  original resolution or not. Disgraceful; the UNSC should have  enforced withdrawal from (the?) occupied territories , since the parties were incapable of "negotiation" re the border after the  1967 war. But the US with its UNSC veto is a bad actor in Palestine, being controlled by the US's  unholy alliance of Jewish zealots and RW Christian 'Revelation' literalists.  Quote: There is no phukkin genocide by Israelis. 40,000 noncombatants slaughtered since Oct 7th and ongoing: 157 members in the UNGA say enough is enough in this 7 decade long war.  Hamas didn't "turn" to terrorism - it is born of terrorism. No,  Islamic terrorism  is born of the UN's bungled partition of Palestine (long before Hamas existed) - with the  recognition of Israel, but without the recognition of the Palestinian state, as per UN res. 181. [quote]Explain why Egypt in the 19 years it had control over Gaza 48 to 67 - and Jordan in the same time had control of the West Bank(illegally) never made an offer to so called Palestinians to set up a free state? Because the Arab world resented the confiscation of half of Palestine.. Lawrence of Arabia had promised the Arabs soveveignty over Palestine,  in return for assistance against the Ottoman empire. But the British reneged on that promise, and eventually they were forced out of Palestine by Jews, and belatedly handed the old Palestine Mandate to the UN. [quote]They went to war with Israel who had agreed to a 2 state solution .... and they lost that war. The UN should not have recognized Israel until the fighting which began in 1947 was stopped by the UNSC, and the 2 states implemented with security guaranted by  the UNSC.  [quote]So the West Bank has never been Palestinian & there are no illegal Jewish settler citizens there.

Now the laughable, false RW ideology appears; Palestinians have lived in what is now termed the WB since the Arab conquest of Palistinae from the Byzantine empire, in the 7th century AD.   


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40,000 non-combatants? ;D Yeah - when the vast majority of Palestinians support Hamas ..... I call BS.

The world calls it genocide, let's see what  the ICC says.
[/quote]

The Jews have been there for over 2,500 years & a 1,000 years before the advent of Islam. [/quote]

Correct, but the state of Israel ceased to exist in the 1st century AD, when it became 'Syria Palestina' under the Romans, and later  'Palestinae' under the Byzantines, until the Arab conquest and the area was known as 'Filastin'.   


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The world doesn't call it genocide - so few speaking for so many ..... typical leftiods.

and yet Netanyahu has an arrest warrant against him (and the Hamas leader who Israel has eliminated...) issued by the ICC, the world's top international court.


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Who murdered & drove Jews out of the ME?

Romans - back in the days before the UN determined  "the acquisition of territory by force is inadmissible": UN)


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Wouldn't have been Arab Muslims?

No; actually the commander of the Muslim invasion of Byzantine Palestinae allowed the Jews still living there to remain,  in fact the Jews were glad to see the oppresive Jew-hating (Christian) Byzantines gone. 


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Couldn't have been considered a genocide?

The Arab conquest?

No, as explained by the facts of history,  above.

   
[/quote]

And I'd wager they had to pay Jizya to remain or they'd have been killed.

Arabs didn't give so called Palestinians their own state ... why the hell should Israel?

lee wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 1:52pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 10:32am: The source of morality is a mystery involving questions like So you don't know either. Thanks for clearing that up. ;D ;D ;D ;D

I already said  we have to differentiate between  source and awareness. The former is a mystery because humans can't understand infinity; the latter is granted to us by the fact of humans possessing an evolved  cerebral cortex unique in the animal kingdom (of which we are a part). 


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So was that awareness instilled or evolved? Your conclusion is that evolved, through some unknown process. And completely unlikely. ;)

Evolved: evolution endowed humans with a bigger brain and more connections between neurons. The 'tree of life'  - from the simplest living organisms which appeared on earth c. 500 million years ago - to  the most complex living organ in the universe (the human brain)  with more cells than stars in the Milky Way - confirms it.

The unknown, and unknowable, process is the origin of the universe and its prime mover if there is a prime mover.

Now... back to the OT 'Chosen People' and 'Promised Land' bronze-age mythology, it's time to move on.

Interestingly it was a Jew who said we should "love God and love one-another" (both Jew and gentile). 

A very modern concept, except it presumes the existance of a loving creator God who is only, and can only be,  perceived by humans "as through a glass darkly."

But we are all aware of morality, justice and fairness  (even if we spurn it) , and possess a brain which in some of us enables the creation of art which connects us to a world beyond this world

"Intimations of Immortality", if you like. 

 

Gnads wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 6:11pm:

Yeah ... what a crock of shyte.

No, it's historical fact.


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It shouldn't have been Israelis having to knock off Hamas terrorist leaders .... it should have been the International community

Correct. 

And guess why the UN can't maintain interntional  law?

In any case, if the US stopped supporting war as a 'legal' method of dispute settlement,  the UNSC could implement the 2 state  solution in a fortnight, guarantee the peace, and end the war. 

Gnads wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 6:15pm:

And I'd wager they had to pay Jizya to remain or they'd have been killed.

Maybe, but nevertheless the Jews amomg others  still living in Palestinae welcomed the change from their "Christian" Byzantine masters, to  Muslim Arab sovereignty.   


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Arabs didn't give so called Palestinians their own state ... why the hell should Israel

Correct, Arabs assumed sovereignty over Palestinae by force (even if welcomed; the former Byzantine sovereignty was usurped  by force).

Whereas Israel only exists today owing to a UN vote to partition Palestine...spot the difference?

The fault is UNSC failure to impose the provisions of the UN resolution (set out in UN res 181), it's not a matter of Israel granting a state to Palestinians. 

Frank wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 10:10am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 10:03am: No; actually the commander of the Muslim invasion of Byzantine Palestinae allowed the Jews still living there to remain,  in fact the Jews were glad to see the oppresive Jew-hating (Christian) Byzantines gone.  Until the 1960s, approximately one million Jews lived in Iran and other Arab countries having arrived in the region more than 2,000 years before.

Correct; and the triumphant Muslim armies subjugated much of the former Roman empire and more , allowing jews (and christians to remain in those lands, mostly   without repression during  the 'golden years of Islam'. Muslim Cordoba was a strking example of state toleration of different religions, until the Reconquista.


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Nowadays......

..the British and American empires have been rampaging theugh the ME for over 150 years; and the UN outrage (confiscation of Arab land) was the nail in the coffin for Arab sensibility.


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For over 2,500 years, Jews lived continuously in North Africa, the Middle East and the Gulf region the first Jewish population had already settled there at least 1,000 years before the advent of Islam.

Correct, with minimal  conflict between different religions.


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Despite the positive influence that Jews brought to the places where they lived, more than 850,000 Jews were forced to leave their homes in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Morocco, and several other Arab countries in the 20 years that followed the Arab-Israeli war of 1948. Another major forced migration took place from Iran in 1979–80, following the Iranian Revolution and the collapse of the shah’s regime, adding 70,000 more Jewish refugees to this number.

Correct, but see above, rampaging British and later American armies united the Arabs against "Judeo-Christian Crusaders".


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In 1947, the Political Committee of the Arab League (League of Arab States) drafted a law that was to govern the legal status of Jewish residents in all of its member states. This Draft Law of the Arab League provided that “...all Jews – with the exception of citizens of non-Arab countries – were to be considered members of the Jewish ‘minority state of Palestine’.....”

Yes, and then things really went pearshape in 1947, as follows:

google

The Arab League opposed the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine in 1947. On 15 May 1948, the then seven Arab League members coordinated an invasion of what was then the  former British Mandate, marking the start of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.


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Cuddly, tolerant Islam, eh?

Definitely not - just like Israel in former Palestine Mandate land today. 

Yes - everyone just loved being invaded by Mussos.....

---

Former US president Bill Clinton on Wednesday said young people in America today “can’t believe” that late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat walked away from a Palestinian state during peace negotiations with Israel under his mediation as president.

Clinton added, in reference to the failed Camp David talks of 2000, that having turned down a “once in a lifetime” peace opportunity, “you can’t complain 25 years later when the doors weren’t all still open, and all the possibilities weren’t still there.”

“I think what’s happened there in the last twenty-five years is one of the great tragedies of the twenty-first century,” Clinton told New York Times journalist Andrew Ross Sorkin, in an interview for the newspaper’s DealBook Summit, promoting his new book, “Citizen: My Life After The White House.”

The Times posted a video of the interview to its New York Times Events+ YouTube channel; the video was removed on Thursday, but re-uploaded shortly thereafter.

“All [young people in America] know that a lot more Palestinians have been killed than Israelis. And I tell them what Arafat walked away from, and they, like, can’t believe it,” said the former commander-in-chief.

Arafat “walked away from a Palestinian state, with a capital in East Jerusalem, 96% of the West Bank, 4% of Israel to make up for the 4% [of the West Bank to be annexed for Israeli settlements],” Clinton elaborated, repeating an account of the Oslo peace negotiations, to which the ex-president has returned repeatedly in recent interviews and remarks.


“I go through all the stuff that was in the deal, and they, like – it’s not on their radar screen, they can’t even imagine that happened,” Clinton went on, describing his conversations with young Americans upset over the death toll in Gaza in the latest war.

The former US president also noted the sacrifice made by Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin, who was assassinated by a Jewish extremist in Israel over his support for the peace process.

“I tell them, you know, the first and most famous victim of an attempt to get the Palestinians a state was prime minister Rabin, whom I think I loved as much as I ever loved another man,” Clinton said, repeating a phrase he has often used to describe his relationship with the late Israeli leader.

“You walk away from these once in a lifetime peace opportunities, and you can’t complain twenty-five years later when the doors weren’t all still open, and all the possibilities weren’t still there. You can’t do it,” Clinton said.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/bill-clinton-young-americans-shocked-to-learn-arafat-turned-down-palestinian-state/

Good post Frank

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2024 at 1:14pm:

With Netanyahu carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is "anti-semitic"...

Of COURSE, it needs to be realised that ANY government or world leader that criticizes Zionism, Netanyahu - and the IDF - are "anti-semites"

The ONLY member of any government I've heard speak out against the genocide of Palestinians in Gaza - has been our own Foreign Minister, Penny Wong.

She'll do Australia fine, one day, as our first Malaysian born - and second only female Prime Minister


.

Jasin wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 9:11am:

Good post Frank

It wasn't Frank's post
It was a copy and paste from "The Bethlehem Bugle"


.

So Buzz and her boyfriend Penny support Terrorism

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 9:56am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 1:14pm: With Netanyahu carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is "anti-semitic"... She'll do Australia fine, one day, as our first Malaysian born - and second only female Prime Minister[/size] .

;D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 9:56am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 1:14pm: With Netanyahu carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is "anti-semitic"... She'll do Australia fine, one day, as our first Malaysian born - and second only female Prime Minister[/size] .

Again,

;D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Frank wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 10:06am:

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 9:56am: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6th, 2024 at 1:14pm: With Netanyahu carrying out a continuing genocide against Gazan women and children, while claiming the ICC is "anti-semitic"... She'll do Australia fine, one day, as our first Malaysian born - and second only female Prime Minister . Again

Oh DEAR - has "little franky" lost his abacus ?

.

Frank wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 8:50am:

Former US president Bill Clinton on Wednesday said young people in America today “can’t believe” that late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat walked away from a Palestinian state during peace negotiations with Israel under his mediation as president. Clinton added, in reference to the failed Camp David talks of 2000, that having turned down a “once in a lifetime” peace opportunity, “you can’t complain 25 years later when the doors weren’t all still open, and all the possibilities weren’t still there.” “I think what’s happened there in the last twenty-five years is one of the great tragedies of the twenty-first century,” Clinton told New York Times journalist Andrew Ross Sorkin, in an interview for the newspaper’s DealBook Summit, promoting his new book, “Citizen: My Life After The White House.” The Times posted a video of the interview to its New York Times Events+ YouTube channel; the video was removed on Thursday, but re-uploaded shortly thereafter. “All [young people in America] know that a lot more Palestinians have been killed than Israelis. And I tell them what Arafat walked away from, and they, like, can’t believe it,” said the former commander-in-chief. Arafat “walked away from a Palestinian state, with a capital in East Jerusalem, 96% of the West Bank, 4% of Israel to make up for the 4% [of the West Bank to be annexed for Israeli settlements],” Clinton elaborated, repeating an account of the Oslo peace negotiations, to which the ex-president has returned repeatedly in recent interviews and remarks. “I go through all the stuff that was in the deal, and they, like – it’s not on their radar screen, they can’t even imagine that happened,” Clinton went on, describing his conversations with young Americans upset over the death toll in Gaza in the latest war. The former US president also noted the sacrifice made by Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin, who was assassinated by a Jewish extremist in Israel over his support for the peace process. “I tell them, you know, the first and most famous victim of an attempt to get the Palestinians a state was prime minister Rabin, whom I think I loved as much as I ever loved another man,” Clinton said, repeating a phrase he has often used to describe his relationship with the late Israeli leader. “You walk away from these once in a lifetime peace opportunities, and you can’t complain twenty-five years later when the doors weren’t all still open, and all the possibilities weren’t still there. You can’t do it,” Clinton said. https://www.timesofisrael.com/bill-clinton-young-americans-shocked-to-learn-arafat-turned-down-palestinian-state/

https://youtu.be/HZtuF_etO4o?si=oP1PsljLD7YsrNm1

36 minute mark - How Arafat walked away from creating a Palestinian state.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 6:32am:

Yes - everyone just loved being invaded by Mussos.....

Give a thought to the MASSIVE grabs by Israel of Palestinian homelands, since the state of Israel was created by the UN in 1948.
This Israel "state" was created by giving away half of Palestine to placate Zionist politics.
SINCE 1948, Israel has permanently seized around 90% of remaining Palestine - and has the remaining Gaza Strip. West Bank and Golan Heights under illegal Zionist/IDF military occupation.
The world has turned a blind eye to this - with Hamas the only force to speak up FOR them.


.

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 11:08am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 6:32am: Yes - everyone just loved being invaded by Mussos..... Give a thought to the MASSIVE grabs by Israel of Palestinian homelands, since the state of Israel was created by the UN in 1948. This Israel "state" was created by giving away half of Palestine to placate Zionist politics. SINCE 1948, Israel has permanently seized around 90% of remaining Palestine - and has the remaining Gaza Strip. West Bank and Golan Heights under illegal Zionist/IDF military occupation. The world has turned a blind eye to this - with Hamas the only force to speak up FOR them. .

Not taking sides and I mean anyone of the 450 different sides, but everything can be punched, counter punched and then rehashed.


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The status of Jewish citizens in Arab states worsened during the 1948 Israeli-Arab war. Anti-Jewish riots erupted throughout the Arab World in December 1947, and Jewish communities were hit particularly hard in Aleppo and British-controlled Aden, with hundreds of dead and injured. In Libya, Jews were deprived of citizenship, and in Iraq, their property was seized.[needs context][45] Egypt expelled most of its foreign community, including Jews, after the Suez War in 1956,[46] while Algeria denied its French citizens, including Jews, of citizenship upon its independence in 1962.[47] Over the course of twenty years, some 850,000 Jews from Arab countries immigrated to Israel and other countries.[48]

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 6:32am:

Yes - everyone just loved being invaded by Mussos.....

No they didn't , but those were the days of 'might is right'...

Since 1945 'the aquisition of territory by force is inadmissible', but the UN has not been able to prevent use of force, because the UNSC was crippled from its inception by the veto. 

But the moral force of the UN is growing in the face of hideous wars, gaining more and more support around the world,  with UNGA votes regularly exceeding four to one against the particular war. 

Jasin wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 9:11am:

Good post Frank

Not so fast with the congratulations:

wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit#:~:text=Clinton%20and%20Barak%20insisted%20that,be%20resolved%2C%20the%20summit%20ended.

(At  Camp David negotiations in the year 2000, between Clinton, Barak, and Arafat).

Clinton and Barak insisted that the entire area be placed under Israeli sovereignty, while Palestinians could have "custodianship". Arafat insisted on Palestinian sovereignty over the Haram (the Temple Mount to Jews). As this deadlock could not be resolved, the summit ended.

Proving the proper solution for sovereignty of Jerusalem was outlined in UN res 181**  (in 1947), because Jews (in 2000) would NOT accept divided sovereignty in Jerusalem (whatever "custodianship" means) whereas the PLO would.

The illegal settlers also "offered"  a land swap so they could remain in the existing  illegal WB settlements established after the 1967 war, an "offer"  which would result in the 'swiss cheese' Palestinian state with the IDF guarding the corridors to the illegal settlements (ie illegal under international law).  Rabin had been murdered by a Jewish zealot only 5 years earlier, for agreeing to give up israeli occupied land, as identified in the Oslo Accords.    

The article also notes that:

"Reports of the outcome of the summit have been described as illustrating the Rashomon effect, in which the multiple witnesses gave contradictory and self-serving interpretations.[3][4][5][6] After the summit, the Israeli narrative was widely accepted by the American media, which sought to cast Arafat as a villain and that Palestinians did not want peace.[7] That narrative lead to the decline of the Israeli peace movement.[/b]

Ah...the lying Israeli bastards easily manipulating a biased American media ...after all, "we offered them swiss cheese and "custodianship" - what's not to like ....

**UN res 181 proposed UN sovereignty over Jerusalem, allowing for open access to the city by all peoples. But the UN proposal doesn't take into account the hideous outcomes of dogmatic religious zealotry...)

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 12:50pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 9:11am: Good post Frank Not so fast with the congratulations: wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit#:~:text=Clinton%20and%20Barak%20insisted%20that,be%20resolved%2C%20the%20summit%20ended. (At  Camp David negotiations in the year 2000, between Clinton, Barak, and Arafat. Clinton and Barak insisted that the entire area be placed under Israeli sovereignty, while Palestinians could have "custodianship". Arafat insisted on Palestinian sovereignty over the Haram (the Temple Mount to Jews). As this deadlock could not be resolved, the summit ended. Proving the proper solution for sovereignty of Jerusalem was outlined in UN res 181  (in 1947), because Jews (in 2000) would NOT accept divided sovereignty in Jerusalem (whatever "custodianship" means) whereas the PLO would. The illegal settlers also "offered"  a land swap so they could remain in the existing  illegal WB settlements.    The article also notes that: "Reports of the outcome of the summit have been described as illustrating the Rashomon effect, in which the multiple witnesses gave[b] contradictory and self-serving interpretations.[/b][3][4][5][6] After the summit, the Israeli narrative was widely accepted by the American media, which sought to cast Arafat as a villain and that Palestinians did not want peace.[7] That narrative lead to the decline of the Israeli peace movement. Ah...the lying bastards....

My posts are about what Clinton says and thinks.

Why did Arafat reject Palestinian statehood?

Frank wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 12:52pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 12:50pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 9:11am: Good post Frank Not so fast with the congratulations: wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit#:~:text=Clinton%20and%20Barak%20insisted%20that,be%20resolved%2C%20the%20summit%20ended. (At  Camp David negotiations in the year 2000, between Clinton, Barak, and Arafat. Clinton and Barak insisted that the entire area be placed under Israeli sovereignty, while Palestinians could have "custodianship". Arafat insisted on Palestinian sovereignty over the Haram (the Temple Mount to Jews). As this deadlock could not be resolved, the summit ended. Proving the proper solution for sovereignty of Jerusalem was outlined in UN res 181  (in 1947), because Jews (in 2000) would NOT accept divided sovereignty in Jerusalem (whatever "custodianship" means) whereas the PLO would. The illegal settlers also "offered"  a land swap so they could remain in the existing  illegal WB settlements.    The article also notes that: "Reports of the outcome of the summit have been described as illustrating the Rashomon effect, in which the multiple witnesses gave[b] contradictory and self-serving interpretations.[/b][3][4][5][6] After the summit, the Israeli narrative was widely accepted by the American media, which sought to cast Arafat as a villain and that Palestinians did not want peace.[7] That narrative lead to the decline of the Israeli peace movement. Ah...the lying bastards.... My posts are about what Clinton says and thinks. Why did Arafat reject Palestinian statehood?

Because a (nation) state can't exist with its capital subject to sovereignty of another state.

And it can't exist when punctured by illegal settlements,  and criss-crossed by access roads guarded by another state's military.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 1:29pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 12:52pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 12:50pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 9:11am: Good post Frank Not so fast with the congratulations: wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit#:~:text=Clinton%20and%20Barak%20insisted%20that,be%20resolved%2C%20the%20summit%20ended. (At  Camp David negotiations in the year 2000, between Clinton, Barak, and Arafat. Clinton and Barak insisted that the entire area be placed under Israeli sovereignty, while Palestinians could have "custodianship". Arafat insisted on Palestinian sovereignty over the Haram (the Temple Mount to Jews). As this deadlock could not be resolved, the summit ended. Proving the proper solution for sovereignty of Jerusalem was outlined in UN res 181  (in 1947), because Jews (in 2000) would NOT accept divided sovereignty in Jerusalem (whatever "custodianship" means) whereas the PLO would. The illegal settlers also "offered"  a land swap so they could remain in the existing  illegal WB settlements.    The article also notes that: "Reports of the outcome of the summit have been described as illustrating the Rashomon effect, in which the multiple witnesses gave[b] contradictory and self-serving interpretations.[/b][3][4][5][6] After the summit, the Israeli narrative was widely accepted by the American media, which sought to cast Arafat as a villain and that Palestinians did not want peace.[7] That narrative lead to the decline of the Israeli peace movement. Ah...the lying bastards.... My posts are about what Clinton says and thinks. Why did Arafat reject Palestinian statehood? Because a (nation) state can't exist with its capital subject to sovereignty of another state. And it can't exist when punctured by illegal settlements,  and criss-crossed by access roads guarded by another state's military.

Was that Arafat's reasoning or yours?


Germany was like that for 40+ years.

Frank wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 11:28am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 10:52am: Frank wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 10:43am: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 10:32am: lee wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 1:20pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 1:15pm: Poor RW crippled-brain lee, can't discuss the source of morality in the world, so gets himself all confused over neighbouring Arab states who accept the 2-state solution, which is what the UNGA recently voted for, 157 to 8 lee- type losers. So Morality has a source? Which morality Islam , Christian or other? ;) The  crippled RW Conservative brain can't think for himself, wants me to explain it for him.  We have to consider what a "source" of morality refers to, as opposed to AWARENESS of morality,   in the context of a discussion about morality and religion.  The source of morality is a mystery involving questions like is the universe created or eternal? who created it, if it was created? The world's religions have attempted to answer such questions, but any answers are inadequate because the  human brain cannot understand infinity.  BUT the AWARENESS of morality arose in the  (evolved) human cerebral cortex; it's that awareness of self and others, and there desireswhich separates us  from the animals. But instinctive survival mechanisms in all creatures, combined with egregious Conservative self-interest over-rules morality, in favour of war and entrenched poverty among the losers in the competition for resources. Here endeth the first lesson....(as my Sunday school teacher used to say...) Today's gruel: hotch-potch,  with lashings of stupidity and self-contradictions. Admitedly a discussion of the source/awareness of  morality is beyond your capacity; nevertheless you ought to be able to point to the "self-contradictions" in my post, to support your case re  "stupidity".  Graps will be all ears.... Lee can't discuss the source of morality, you say, because of RW brain.  But to you, the source of morality is a mystery to do with creation - So not about the brain.

Interesting how logical discussion so easily runs off the rails.  The first sentence is correct (though you can replace "RW brain" with  the words "his ideogically blind brain", to make the statement more accurately  convey my  argument.   


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But awareness of this mystery is about the brain, in the cerebral cortex where self awareness and awareness of others and their desires and our own arise. This is treated as what separates us from animals. Needless to say animals are also aware of others, of the desires of others and their own.

Your error: awareness is a matter of degree; animals certainly don't conceive of abstract concepts like morality, justice and fairness -  and "rights", least of all infinite divinity. 


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Then self-interested morality is smuggled in, forgetting that it was rooted, a few lines earlier in creation mysteries.

 

Well, you have not comprehended what I said.

The words "self-interested" and "morality" are nowhere   combined in my treatise, to produce your  oxymoronic phrase "self-interested morality". Morality (by which I mean goodness, the golden rule, justice and fairness) is  universally percieved  by all humans (whether spurned or not); self interest may or not coincide with this universal morality, in the self-interested individual.   


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And now the usual mantra about war and poverty can be parroted AS IF you had presented a logical argument that led you here.

Ok..perhaps there are a few steps in getting from awareness of morality (as defined above), to the creation of international  law "to save mankind from the scourge of war"  - and entrenched, generational poverty ) see the UN Charter, and the UNUDHR. 

The reason you can't take those steps is shown above; you mistakenly combine and confuse universal  morality with the (partly instinctive) self-interest of individuals. 


Quote:

But no. You said some stupid, contradictory nonsense about creation mysteries, cortex, awareness, desires, survival instinct -  and then, unrelatedly, folowing from nothing, parotted your usual bilge which you always parrot, no matter what preceeds it. So your post was typical: a hotchpotch of ignorance and stupidity followed by war and poverty. I wonder why left out the UN and China as the answer to all our moral dilemmas, both at source and awareness level.

Unfortunately, that paragraph is merely an example of GIGO; you will need to show where I am wrong in my differentiation between morality - as in  the Golden Rule - versus individual self-interest which you combined in an oxymoron, as noted at the top.

Anyway,  congrats for a serious attempt to understand "morality", even though you fell into GIGO at the end.

Frank wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 1:48pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 1:29pm: Frank wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 12:52pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 12:50pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 9:11am: Good post Frank Not so fast with the congratulations: wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit#:~:text=Clinton%20and%20Barak%20insisted%20that,be%20resolved%2C%20the%20summit%20ended. (At  Camp David negotiations in the year 2000, between Clinton, Barak, and Arafat. Clinton and Barak insisted that the entire area be placed under Israeli sovereignty, while Palestinians could have "custodianship". Arafat insisted on Palestinian sovereignty over the Haram (the Temple Mount to Jews). As this deadlock could not be resolved, the summit ended. Proving the proper solution for sovereignty of Jerusalem was outlined in UN res 181  (in 1947), because Jews (in 2000) would NOT accept divided sovereignty in Jerusalem (whatever "custodianship" means) whereas the PLO would. The illegal settlers also "offered"  a land swap so they could remain in the existing  illegal WB settlements.    The article also notes that: "Reports of the outcome of the summit have been described as illustrating the Rashomon effect, in which the multiple witnesses gave contradictory and self-serving interpretations.[3][4][5][6] After the summit, the Israeli narrative was widely accepted by the American media, which sought to cast Arafat as a villain and that Palestinians did not want peace.[7] That narrative lead to the decline of the Israeli peace movement. Ah...the lying bastards.... My posts are about what Clinton says and thinks. Why did Arafat reject Palestinian statehood? Because a (nation) state can't exist with its capital subject to sovereignty of another state. And it can't exist when punctured by illegal settlements,  and criss-crossed by access roads guarded by another state's military. Was that Arafat's reasoning or yours?

Neither: it's wikipedia's statement of what happened at the summit attended by Clinton, Barak, and Arafat in the year 2000, with citations from various sources eg [3], [4],  etc


Quote:

Germany was like that for 40+ years.

You error explained above.

No reasonable leader would accept foreign sovereingty over its national capital (in this case, East Jerusalem), nor illegal settlements connected by a web of access roads (to the illegal settlements). 

Palestinians must accept the existence of Israel.  Anything less than that means no Palestinian state. Ever.

Take it from that, it is non-negotiable.


The Jews are real. Israel is real.
The Palestinians are an invention. They can't make themselves real by trying to wipe out Israel.

I have been to Israel. Travelled from Cairo. It was like crossing from barbarity to Geneva. I have seen the Arabs close up and the Israelis close up.

I was going to mention the morality and legality of occupation of Germany and Japan and Italy after WW II.......so now a group calling itself a nation starts a war, loses it, and then says it's immoral and illegal to occupy its territory that was only on loan anyway as a means of establishing a viable government instead of a lunatic one?

They must have been learning from our Abos.......

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 9:08pm:

I was going to mention the morality and legality of occupation of Germany and Japan and Italy after WW II.......

You mean the war which caused 40 million mainly civilian deaths, incalculable property damage, and cultural-heritage losses?

'Morality' would have been better served if the war was prevented in the first place, by means of establishing proper institutional machinery to ensure disputes between nations can are  settled via interntional law.

Senile Biden has authorized missile strikes on Russia whch has  the largest nuke stockpile in the world.

Do you think the US will be able to 'occupy Russia' after a nuclear exchange between the US and Russia?   

Frank wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 7:38pm:

Palestinians must accept the existence of Israel.  Anything less than that means no Palestinian state. Ever.

Correct ...even a broken watch is correct twice a day....


Quote:

Take it from that, it is non-negotiable.

You mean - the Palestinians have to accept Israeli sovereignty over East Jerusalem, and a swiss cheese arrangement in the WB?

Sure, it's non-negotiable - which  is why all attempts at negotiation since 1967 have failed.


Quote:

The Jews are real. Israel is real. The Palestinians are an invention.

 

Incorrect, as already confirmd in this thread; do try to keep up.


Quote:

They can't make themselves real by trying to wipe out Israel.

Correct.....


Quote:

I have been to Israel. Travelled from Cairo. It was like crossing from barbarity to Geneva. I have seen the Arabs close up and the Israelis close up.

Your error: economic and technological advance in the WB has been destroyed by 70 years of war and Israeli occupation. Have you been to Qatar? 

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16^th, 2024 at 12:40pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 7:38pm: Palestinians must accept the existence of Israel.  Anything less than that means no Palestinian state. Ever. Correct ...even a broken watch is correct twice a day.... Quote: Take it from that, it is non-negotiable. You mean - the Palestinians have to accept Israeli sovereignty over East Jerusalem, and a swiss cheese arrangement in the WB?

Why not? There are Arabs, Muslims in Israel.

Must Palestine be Judenfrei?

The population of the West Bank is 80–85% Muslim (mostly Sunni) and 12–14% Jewish


In 2022 Israel recorded 73.6% of its population as Jews, 21.1% as Arabs, and 5.3% as "Others"


thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16^th, 2024 at 12:40pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 7:38pm: I have been to Israel. Travelled from Cairo. It was like crossing from barbarity to Geneva. I have seen the Arabs close up and the Israelis close up. Your error: economic and technological advance in the WB has been destroyed by 70 years of war and Israeli occupation. Have you been to Qatar?

WB has not been at war for 70 years. Before Israel, it was occupied by Jordan.
And I was comparing Egypt and Israel.

As for Qatar:
Qatar relies almost entirely on about two million migrants, who make up ninety-five percent of the country’s workforce in sectors ranging from construction to services to domestic work. Qatar’s migrant workers come predominantly from India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Kenya, and the Philippines.

Frank wrote on Dec 16^th, 2024 at 1:56pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 12:40pm: Frank wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 7:38pm: Palestinians must accept the existence of Israel.  Anything less than that means no Palestinian state. Ever. Correct ...even a broken watch is correct twice a day.... Quote: Take it from that, it is non-negotiable. You mean - the Palestinians have to accept Israeli sovereignty over East Jerusalem, and a swiss cheese arrangement in the WB? Why not? There are Arabs, Muslims in Israel. Must Palestine be Judenfrei? The population of the West Bank is 80–85% Muslim (mostly Sunni) and 12–14% Jewish In 2022 Israel recorded 73.6% of its population as Jews, 21.1% as Arabs, and 5.3% as "Others"

But only Jews are guaranteed citizenship, Soren.  Funny how you overlook that, hey?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)


Quote:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 12:40pm: Frank wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 7:38pm: I have been to Israel. Travelled from Cairo. It was like crossing from barbarity to Geneva. I have seen the Arabs close up and the Israelis close up. Your error: economic and technological advance in the WB has been destroyed by 70 years of war and Israeli occupation. Have you been to Qatar?  WB has not been at war for 70 years. Before Israel, it was occupied by Jordan. And I was comparing Egypt and Israel.

57 years actually.  The last war over the West Bank occurred in 1967.  Your historical knowledge is sketchy at best, Soren.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)


Quote:

As for Qatar: Qatar relies almost entirely on about two million migrants, who make up ninety-five percent of the country’s workforce in sectors ranging from construction to services to domestic work. Qatar’s migrant workers come predominantly from India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Kenya, and the Philippines.

So?  All that shows is that the Qataris guard their citizenship expressly, just like the Jews of Israel.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Nonsense - all Israelis are guaranteed citizenship ... if a chunk of contested land is recovered by Israel - the citizens there will - if it remains Israeli territory, have access to Israeli citizenship rights, too.

You can't expect that all those living in Gaza would now be instantly granted Israeli citizenship... and even if Israel retained it, those people would need to apply and be approved.

It has to be something in the water.

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 16^th, 2024 at 2:20pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 1:56pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 12:40pm: Frank wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 7:38pm: Palestinians must accept the existence of Israel.  Anything less than that means no Palestinian state. Ever. Correct ...even a broken watch is correct twice a day.... Quote: Take it from that, it is non-negotiable. You mean - the Palestinians have to accept Israeli sovereignty over East Jerusalem, and a swiss cheese arrangement in the WB? Why not? There are Arabs, Muslims in Israel. Must Palestine be Judenfrei? The population of the West Bank is 80–85% Muslim (mostly Sunni) and 12–14% Jewish In 2022 Israel recorded 73.6% of its population as Jews, 21.1% as Arabs, and 5.3% as "Others" But only Jews are guaranteed citizenship, Soren.  Funny how you overlook that, hey?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Overlooked? Israel is a Jewish state. It was created to be a sanctuary for Jews.   To accept Jews IS its reason for being.
Still, Israel has more Arab and Muslim citizen ss than the WB has Jews. And who says you can't have Jews in the WB?

Khaled Kabub (Arabic: خالد كبوب, Hebrew: חאלד כבוב, born 1958) is an Israeli-Arab judge. Kabub was appointed in 2022 at the Supreme Court of Israel becoming its first Muslim member to be permanently appointed. Any high ranking Jews in Fatah, PLO or Hamas or Hezb'allah?



The WB has not been at war since the creation of Israel, now almost 80 years ago. It has been, however, occupied territory all that time, and even before that. Just not by Israel. By Jordan and before that, Britain. Before that, the Ottomans. Before that the Mamluks. Before that, the .....zzzzzz.......

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 16^th, 2024 at 2:20pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 1:56pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 12:40pm: Frank wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 7:38pm: Palestinians must accept the existence of Israel.  Anything less than that means no Palestinian state. Ever. Correct ...even a broken watch is correct twice a day.... Quote: Take it from that, it is non-negotiable. You mean - the Palestinians have to accept Israeli sovereignty over East Jerusalem, and a swiss cheese arrangement in the WB? Why not? There are Arabs, Muslims in Israel. Must Palestine be Judenfrei? The population of the West Bank is 80–85% Muslim (mostly Sunni) and 12–14% Jewish In 2022 Israel recorded 73.6% of its population as Jews, 21.1% as Arabs, and 5.3% as "Others" But only Jews are guaranteed citizenship, Soren.  Funny how you overlook that, hey?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) [quote] thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 12:40pm: Frank wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 7:38pm: I have been to Israel. Travelled from Cairo. It was like crossing from barbarity to Geneva. I have seen the Arabs close up and the Israelis close up. Your error: economic and technological advance in the WB has been destroyed by 70 years of war and Israeli occupation. Have you been to Qatar?  WB has not been at war for 70 years. Before Israel, it was occupied by Jordan. And I was comparing Egypt and Israel.

57 years actually.  The last war over the West Bank occurred in 1967.  Your historical knowledge is sketchy at best, Soren.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)


Quote:

As for Qatar: Qatar relies almost entirely on about two million migrants, who make up ninety-five percent of the country’s workforce in sectors ranging from construction to services to domestic work. Qatar’s migrant workers come predominantly from India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Kenya, and the Philippines.

So?  All that shows is that the Qataris guard their citizenship expressly, just like the Jews of Israel.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)[/quote]


Let us not forget that Syria, Iraq, Jordan etc were also created by the British, for the Arabs. They did not exist as independent Arab nations until the British created them for the Arabs, after defeating the Turkish (ie not Arabic) overlords. The Brits (and the French) liberated the Arabs.

So why not a sliver for the Jews?

Frank wrote on Dec 17^th, 2024 at 9:56am:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 2:20pm: Frank wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 1:56pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 12:40pm: Frank wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 7:38pm: Palestinians must accept the existence of Israel.  Anything less than that means no Palestinian state. Ever. Correct ...even a broken watch is correct twice a day.... Quote: Take it from that, it is non-negotiable. You mean - the Palestinians have to accept Israeli sovereignty over East Jerusalem, and a swiss cheese arrangement in the WB? Why not? There are Arabs, Muslims in Israel. Must Palestine be Judenfrei? The population of the West Bank is 80–85% Muslim (mostly Sunni) and 12–14% Jewish In 2022 Israel recorded 73.6% of its population as Jews, 21.1% as Arabs, and 5.3% as "Others" But only Jews are guaranteed citizenship, Soren.  Funny how you overlook that, hey?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) [quote] thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 12:40pm: Frank wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 7:38pm: I have been to Israel. Travelled from Cairo. It was like crossing from barbarity to Geneva. I have seen the Arabs close up and the Israelis close up. Your error: economic and technological advance in the WB has been destroyed by 70 years of war and Israeli occupation. Have you been to Qatar?  WB has not been at war for 70 years. Before Israel, it was occupied by Jordan. And I was comparing Egypt and Israel. 57 years actually.  The last war over the West Bank occurred in 1967.  Your historical knowledge is sketchy at best, Soren.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) [quote] As for Qatar: Qatar relies almost entirely on about two million migrants, who make up ninety-five percent of the country’s workforce in sectors ranging from construction to services to domestic work. Qatar’s migrant workers come predominantly from India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Kenya, and the Philippines.

So?  All that shows is that the Qataris guard their citizenship expressly, just like the Jews of Israel.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)[/quote]


Let us not forget that Syria, Iraq, Jordan etc were also created by the British, for the Arabs.
So why not a sliver for the Jews?
[/quote]


It's truly hard to comprehend that someone posted this with a straight face.

Behold! The diseased mind!

Frank wrote on Dec 16^th, 2024 at 1:56pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 12:40pm: Frank wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 7:38pm: Palestinians must accept the existence of Israel.  Anything less than that means no Palestinian state. Ever. Correct ...even a broken watch is correct twice a day.... Quote: Take it from that, it is non-negotiable. You mean - the Palestinians have to accept Israeli sovereignty over East Jerusalem, and a swiss cheese arrangement in the WB? Why not? There are Arabs, Muslims in Israel.

Another error in logic: the issue re East Jerusalem is state sovereignty over the capital of the state, NOT the ethnicity of the citizens in the state. 


Quote:

Must Palestine be Judenfrei?

No.


Quote:

The population of the West Bank is 80–85% Muslim (mostly Sunni) and 12–14% Jewish. In 2022 Israel recorded 73.6% of its population as Jews, 21.1% as Arabs, and 5.3% as "Others"

Partly due to population shifts in the 1947/48 war; but not important re creating an independent sovereign Palestinian  state now.

Certainly, Jews in the Palestinian state would have to declare allegiance  to the state, otherwise p*ss-off; and access roads to Israel from illegal settlements  in Palestine  would have to be eradicated...


Quote:

WB has not been at war for 70 years. Before Israel, it was occupied by Jordan. And I was comparing Egypt and Israel.

Your error: occupied territories don't advance economically in the context of ongoing hostilties, regardless of who is the occupier.   


Quote:

As for Qatar: Qatar relies almost entirely on about two million migrants, who make up ninety-five percent of the country’s workforce in sectors ranging from construction to services to domestic work. Qatar’s migrant workers come predominantly from India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Kenya, and the Philippines.

It is however,  an Arab state like Saudi Arabia and the UAE which are also technically advanced Muslim states.

Frank wrote on Dec 17^th, 2024 at 9:03am:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 2:20pm: Frank wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 1:56pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 12:40pm: Frank wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 7:38pm: Palestinians must accept the existence of Israel.  Anything less than that means no Palestinian state. Ever. Correct ...even a broken watch is correct twice a day.... Quote: Take it from that, it is non-negotiable. You mean - the Palestinians have to accept Israeli sovereignty over East Jerusalem, and a swiss cheese arrangement in the WB? Why not? There are Arabs, Muslims in Israel. Must Palestine be Judenfrei? The population of the West Bank is 80–85% Muslim (mostly Sunni) and 12–14% Jewish In 2022 Israel recorded 73.6% of its population as Jews, 21.1% as Arabs, and 5.3% as "Others" But only Jews are guaranteed citizenship, Soren.  Funny how you overlook that, hey?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) Overlooked? Israel is a Jewish state. It was created to be a sanctuary for Jews.   To accept Jews IS its reason for being.

Created by the UN in a process which led to ongoing war, due to UN incompetence (ie lack of machinery to maintain peace between disputing nations/cultural groups). 

Meanwhile, Trump is saying "there will be all hell to pay if the hostages aren't released before  Inauguration Day".

Another holocaust? Ironic....


Quote:

Still, Israel has more Arab and Muslim citizen ss than the WB has Jews. And who says you can't have Jews in the WB?

 

Your errors exposed in my previous post: illegal access roads to illegal settlements - impermissible.


Quote:

Khaled Kabub (Arabic: خالد كبوب, Hebrew: חאלד כבוב, born 1958) is an Israeli-Arab judge. Kabub was appointed in 2022 at the Supreme Court of Israel becoming its first Muslim member to be permanently appointed. Any high ranking Jews in Fatah, PLO or Hamas or Hezb'allah?

And maybe a WB (Palestinian)  court would have a Jewish judge by now, if Palestine had been created in 1947, as per UN res 181, (with resistors to its implementation checked by the UNSC at that time.)


Quote:

The WB has not been at war since the creation of Israel, now almost 80 years ago. It has been, however, occupied territory all that time, and even before that. Just not by Israel. By Jordan and before that, Britain. Before that, the Ottomans. Before that the Mamluks. Before that, the .....zzzzzz.......

 

Again, your error already exposed: the WB's development has been crippled by ongoing hostilities between the Arab world and Israel, regardless of who was occupying the WB.

And in fact much of the  Arab ME has been ruined as a result of related conflict with 'the great satan' the US - Israel's main backer.

mothra wrote on Dec 17^th, 2024 at 9:59am:

Frank wrote on Dec 17th, 2024 at 9:56am: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 2:20pm: Frank wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 1:56pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 12:40pm: Frank wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 7:38pm: Palestinians must accept the existence of Israel.  Anything less than that means no Palestinian state. Ever. Correct ...even a broken watch is correct twice a day.... Quote: Take it from that, it is non-negotiable. You mean - the Palestinians have to accept Israeli sovereignty over East Jerusalem, and a swiss cheese arrangement in the WB? Why not? There are Arabs, Muslims in Israel. Must Palestine be Judenfrei? The population of the West Bank is 80–85% Muslim (mostly Sunni) and 12–14% Jewish In 2022 Israel recorded 73.6% of its population as Jews, 21.1% as Arabs, and 5.3% as "Others" But only Jews are guaranteed citizenship, Soren.  Funny how you overlook that, hey?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) [quote] thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 12:40pm: Frank wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 7:38pm: I have been to Israel. Travelled from Cairo. It was like crossing from barbarity to Geneva. I have seen the Arabs close up and the Israelis close up. Your error: economic and technological advance in the WB has been destroyed by 70 years of war and Israeli occupation. Have you been to Qatar?  WB has not been at war for 70 years. Before Israel, it was occupied by Jordan. And I was comparing Egypt and Israel. 57 years actually.  The last war over the West Bank occurred in 1967.  Your historical knowledge is sketchy at best, Soren.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) [quote] As for Qatar: Qatar relies almost entirely on about two million migrants, who make up ninety-five percent of the country’s workforce in sectors ranging from construction to services to domestic work. Qatar’s migrant workers come predominantly from India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Kenya, and the Philippines. So?  All that shows is that the Qataris guard their citizenship expressly, just like the Jews of Israel.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Let us not forget that Syria, Iraq, Jordan etc were also created by the British, for the Arabs.
So why not a sliver for the Jews?
[/quote]


It's truly hard to comprehend that someone posted this with a straight face.

Behold! The diseased mind![/quote]
Mothra is surprised, ONCE again, by the facts of history.

They don't teach history in Cert IV Wymmyn's Postcolonial Studies.