This has got to be one of the most (if not the most) wasteful misuses of taxpayer funds to the tune of $600 million in the history of our country. I hope that somehow, when he becomes PM next year, Dutton can axe this deal and get our money back.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/nrl-deliver-historic-papua-new-guinea-announcement/news-story/1e2aa3d613b820ce099e4e1b6f981de7

the deal with PNG is great for Oz ... so whats your gripe? you haven't shown the misuse

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 12:06pm:

This has got to be one of the most (if not the most) wasteful misuses of taxpayer funds to the tune of $600 million in the history of our country. I hope that somehow, when he becomes PM next year, Dutton can axe this deal and get our money back. https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/nrl-deliver-historic-papua-new-guinea-announcement/news-story/1e2aa3d613b820ce099e4e1b6f981de7

It was either that or PNG joining the Chinese ping pong league....

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 12:06pm:

This has got to be one of the most (if not the most) wasteful misuses of taxpayer funds to the tune of $600 million in the history of our country. I hope that somehow, when he becomes PM next year, Dutton can axe this deal and get our money back. https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/nrl-deliver-historic-papua-new-guinea-announcement/news-story/1e2aa3d613b820ce099e4e1b6f981de7

I agree   $600 million to kick a piece of leather around a field
when there are so many more worthwhile issues in this world:
clean water, safe sewage, good food, proper housing, hospitals, schools,
roads, electricity connection  etc.

Albanese worked this one out on the back of a beer coaster.
he's unfit to hold office - he's gotta go.
What's more it's paid for with borrowed money -
we're  $1.2 trillion in debt and we pay the interest by printing money
which causes inflation.

Bobby. wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 2:03pm:

I agree   $600 million to kick a piece of leather around a field

is what an idiot would say this deal is about

John Smith wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 2:06pm:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 2:03pm: I agree   $600 million to kick a piece of leather around a field is what an idiot would say this deal is about

I know - an agreement not to let China make any military deals -

but it could have been for a more worthwhile issue to help those in PNG.   ::)

Albo keeps wasting money that we don't have.   ::)

John Smith wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 12:17pm:

the deal with PNG is great for Oz ... so whats your gripe? you haven't shown the misuse

Would've been better spent on a security pact, such as training PNG Police or their defence force or providing them with better equipment for law enforcement or defence, not a football team.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 13^th, 2024 at 5:15am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 12:17pm: the deal with PNG is great for Oz ... so whats your gripe? you haven't shown the misuse Would've been better spent on a security pact, such as training PNG Police or their defence force or providing them with better equipment for law enforcement or defence, not a football team.

train them for what? So they are better able to attack us once China takes control? :D

John Smith wrote on Dec 13^th, 2024 at 7:29am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 13th, 2024 at 5:15am: John Smith wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 12:17pm: the deal with PNG is great for Oz ... so whats your gripe? you haven't shown the misuse Would've been better spent on a security pact, such as training PNG Police or their defence force or providing them with better equipment for law enforcement or defence, not a football team. train them for what? So they are better able to attack us once China takes control? :D

So that they can protect their people, do their jobs, share our values instead of communism.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 13^th, 2024 at 9:39am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 13th, 2024 at 7:29am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Dec 13th, 2024 at 5:15am: John Smith wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 12:17pm: the deal with PNG is great for Oz ... so whats your gripe? you haven't shown the misuse Would've been better spent on a security pact, such as training PNG Police or their defence force or providing them with better equipment for law enforcement or defence, not a football team. train them for what? So they are better able to attack us once China takes control? :D So that they can protect their people, do their jobs, share our values instead of communism.

how does funding their footy team equate to communism you moron?
:D :D

we can't compete with China with money. They'll just print it as they need it and offer more then Oz, not matter how much we throw at them.

We need to win the Papua New Guineans publics hearts, that way their politicians will be less inclined to sell us out to china  ... footy is a great way to achieve that goal. Brothers on the sports fields are often brothers for life, even those on opposing teams.

John Smith wrote on Dec 13^th, 2024 at 5:17pm:

how does funding their footy team equate to communism you moron? :D :D we can't compete with China with money. They'll just print it as they need it and offer more then Oz, not matter how much we throw at them. We need to win the Papua New Guineans publics hearts, that way their politicians will be less inclined to sell us out to china  ... footy is a great way to achieve that goal. Brothers on the sports fields are often brothers for life, even those on opposing teams.

Your communist hero wasted over $400 million on the Voice and now
he'll waste $600 million on footy.   ::)

Bobby. wrote on Dec 13^th, 2024 at 5:26pm:

Your communist hero wasted over $400 million on the voice and now he'll waste $600 million on footy.   Roll Eyes

the only waste is the oxygen your breath. Save it for some maggot, it deserves it more than you do

John Smith wrote on Dec 13^th, 2024 at 5:27pm:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 13th, 2024 at 5:26pm: Your communist hero wasted over $400 million on the voice and now he'll waste $600 million on footy.   Roll Eyes the only waste is the oxygen your breath. Save it for some maggot, it deserves it more than you do

You always support whatever sh!t ideas Albo comes up with.   ::)

Bobby. wrote on Dec 13^th, 2024 at 5:29pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 13th, 2024 at 5:27pm: Bobby. wrote on Dec 13th, 2024 at 5:26pm: Your communist hero wasted over $400 million on the voice and now he'll waste $600 million on footy.   Roll Eyes the only waste is the oxygen your breath. Save it for some maggot, it deserves it more than you do You always support whatever sh!t ideas Albo comes up with.   ::)

nothing wrong with increasing our footy teams goober. If it helps our international relations then thats even better.

You liberal stooges are the ones that want to pull aid, then cry when china buys the governments you've pulled the aid from. You can't have it both ways you dumbarse. :D

What an awful lot of money siphoned out of Australians and into PNG to create another culture of redneck thugs.
I don't think a NRedneckL team is a good offering to make PNG a better country as well.

ALP is happy to send resources to China to build its Empire and threat to Australia. Then turn around to use China as the excuse.

NRL is not a well educated code compared to Rugby Union.
So it's pretty obvious that Albanese is not as smart as he thinks he is.
ALP wants Papuans to remain 'working class' plebs like John Smith.
I would prefer to have my fellow Sahulian Papuans better educated than that.
ALP wants PNG to be our version of Mexico

look out, the idiot has joined the party .... he wants to provide funding to PNG for a game that hardly anyone there plays or has any interest in

genius :D :D :D

Jasin wrote on Dec 13^th, 2024 at 5:37pm:

What an awful lot of money siphoned out of Australians and into PNG to create another culture of redneck thugs. I don't think a NRedneckL team is a good offering to make PNG a better country as well. ALP is happy to send resources to China to build its Empire and threat to Australia. Then turn around to use China as the excuse. NRL is not a well educated code compared to Rugby Union. So it's pretty obvious that Albanese is not as smart as he thinks he is. ALP wants Papuans to remain 'working class' plebs like John Smith. I would prefer to have my fellow Sahulian Papuans better educated than that. ALP wants PNG to be our version of Mexico

How much money can that lisping idiot waste before we kick him out?

Working class pleb intelligenso Smith just confirmed my post with his negative backwards thinking just like Albanese the Houso.
Reckon he's a closet racist who think Papuans aren't worthy enough to have Rugby Union 'culture'?

Smith : $600m for pleb working class culture in PNG
Jason : $600m for educated class culture in PNG

I think I know how the $600m would be 'better' spent for the benefit of PNG's future.

Albanese/ALP are ripping off Australians.
$450m to the Media for a fraudulent Voice
$20m to Hamas
$600m to NRL for expansion in PNG
BILLIONS to USA for Subs that are going to sink us.

Jasin wrote on Dec 13^th, 2024 at 7:05pm:

Albanese/ALP are ripping off Australians. $450m to the Media for a fraudulent Voice $20m to Hamas $600m to NRL for expansion in PNG BILLIONS to USA for Subs that are going to sink us.

$360 billion for only 8 subs when the Yanks pay about $5 billion each for them.
It doesn't add up.
Albo can't do arithmetic.

Bobby. wrote on Dec 13^th, 2024 at 7:13pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 13th, 2024 at 7:05pm: Albanese/ALP are ripping off Australians. $450m to the Media for a fraudulent Voice $20m to Hamas $600m to NRL for expansion in PNG BILLIONS to USA for Subs that are going to sink us. $360 billion for only 8 subs when the Yanks pay about $5 billion each for them. It doesn't add up. Albo can't do arithmetic.

You really are a troll, Bobby.  It has been explained to you numerous times.  We are not just buying submarines, we are purchasing training, we are purchasing technology and we are purchasing the rights to build the subs.  All this does not come cheap.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 11:53am:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 13th, 2024 at 7:13pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 13th, 2024 at 7:05pm: Albanese/ALP are ripping off Australians. $450m to the Media for a fraudulent Voice $20m to Hamas $600m to NRL for expansion in PNG BILLIONS to USA for Subs that are going to sink us. $360 billion for only 8 subs when the Yanks pay about $5 billion each for them. It doesn't add up. Albo can't do arithmetic. You really are a troll, Bobby.  It has been explained to you numerous times.  We are not just buying submarines, we are purchasing training, we are purchasing technology and we are purchasing the rights to build the subs.  All this does not come cheap.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

We are paying too much - it's a rip off -
the Yanks could make 45 submarines for that money.   :o

Bobby. wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 11:56am:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 11:53am: Bobby. wrote on Dec 13th, 2024 at 7:13pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 13th, 2024 at 7:05pm: Albanese/ALP are ripping off Australians. $450m to the Media for a fraudulent Voice $20m to Hamas $600m to NRL for expansion in PNG BILLIONS to USA for Subs that are going to sink us. $360 billion for only 8 subs when the Yanks pay about $5 billion each for them. It doesn't add up. Albo can't do arithmetic. You really are a troll, Bobby.  It has been explained to you numerous times.  We are not just buying submarines, we are purchasing training, we are purchasing technology and we are purchasing the rights to build the subs.  All this does not come cheap.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) We are paying too much - it's a rip off - the Yanks could make 45 submarines for that money.   :o

The extra money comes in buying spare parts, training operators of the subs, training engineers to maintain the subs, infrastructure to support the subs and administration of of the subs, not to mentions sub committee's.

Leroy wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 12:02pm:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 11:56am: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 11:53am: Bobby. wrote on Dec 13th, 2024 at 7:13pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 13th, 2024 at 7:05pm: Albanese/ALP are ripping off Australians. $450m to the Media for a fraudulent Voice $20m to Hamas $600m to NRL for expansion in PNG BILLIONS to USA for Subs that are going to sink us. $360 billion for only 8 subs when the Yanks pay about $5 billion each for them. It doesn't add up. Albo can't do arithmetic. You really are a troll, Bobby.  It has been explained to you numerous times.  We are not just buying submarines, we are purchasing training, we are purchasing technology and we are purchasing the rights to build the subs.  All this does not come cheap.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) We are paying too much - it's a rip off - the Yanks could make 45 submarines for that money.   :o The extra money comes in buying spare parts, training operators of the subs, training engineers to maintain the subs, infrastructure to support the subs and administration of of the subs, not to mentions sub committee's.

The Yanks are laughing at us - all the way to the bank.

A thought.

Do we need subs at all?

If we developed our own nuclear weapons.
Placed around our island.

Would that not be enough significant deter against any aggression towards our shores?

Why are we looking always to the offensive position and always in support of American aggression?

Why should we not just protect over selves and begone with fighting wars we have nothing to do with ?

Bobby. wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 2:03pm:

we're  $1.2 trillion in debt and we pay the interest by printing money which causes inflation.

The Oz government shouldn't borrow money all, quite apart from borrowing money to prop up foot-ball in PNG. 

As for inflation:

Memo for gruesome mainstream neoclassical economists and their discredited NAIRU dogma.

Issuing the money directly will not inflate prices if the funds are used to increase the domestic supply of goods and services. Supply and demand will then go up together, keeping prices stable.

So economists employed by a nation's Treasury and Central Bank should be studying the nation's available resources and productive capacity - a 'stock-taking' exercise - to ensure supply is always sufficent to meet demand, and demand never exceeds supply.

As opposed to manipulating interest rates which unfairly burden the least well-off, while the fool Bullock is refusing to cut rates until unemployment rises.

Hope this helps....

[In 2016, Trump correctly said "our nation can't default because you print the money", but Musk seems to be leading him down the 'balanced government budget/cutting spending' path ...meaning 'public austerity'....

Will be interesting to see how that plays out... ]      

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 12:08pm:

A thought. Do we need subs at all? If we developed our own nuclear weapons. Placed around our island. Would that not be enough significant deter against any aggression towards our shores? Why are we looking always to the offensive position and always in support of American aggression? Why should we not just protect over selves and begone with fighting wars we have nothing to do with ?

Good points; the Pentagon's attempt to maintain US  global hegemony shouldn't be assisted by Oz taxpayers.

We would be smarter to bolster international law....

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 12:08pm:

A thought. Do we need subs at all? If we developed our own nuclear weapons. Placed around our island. Would that not be enough significant deter against any aggression towards our shores? Why are we looking always to the offensive position and always in support of American aggression? Why should we not just protect over selves and begone with fighting wars we have nothing to do with ?

We don't need to develop nuclear weapons. We need to develop countermeasures for nuclear attacks.

A PNG team in the NRL is all about making a buffer zone against Chinese expansion. I don't really want to see Australia lose out on mining rights because the Chinese have the Papuans working for $10/hr in the mines of New Guinea.

Bobby. wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 11:56am:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 11:53am: Bobby. wrote on Dec 13th, 2024 at 7:13pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 13th, 2024 at 7:05pm: Albanese/ALP are ripping off Australians. $450m to the Media for a fraudulent Voice $20m to Hamas $600m to NRL for expansion in PNG BILLIONS to USA for Subs that are going to sink us. $360 billion for only 8 subs when the Yanks pay about $5 billion each for them. It doesn't add up. Albo can't do arithmetic. You really are a troll, Bobby.  It has been explained to you numerous times.  We are not just buying submarines, we are purchasing training, we are purchasing technology and we are purchasing the rights to build the subs.  All this does not come cheap.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) We are paying too much - it's a rip off - the Yanks could make 45 submarines for that money.   :o

The Yanks look like they will have difficulties fulfilling the number we have ordered, Bobby.  The American shipyards are full and they do not have the spare capacity that we are calling for.  We are better off building our own if we are hell bent on doing this.  The only friendly nation with the capacity we need is perhaps the French.  The Brits are facing similar problems to the Americans.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Still Brian - the arithmetic is telling.

A$360 billion = US$227 billion.

The Virginia class subs cost US$5 billion each according to Wiki.

227/ 5 =  45.

So we could have 45 subs instead of only 8 subs for that money -
that's if there was spare capacity to make them.
Jesus Christ - we're getting so ripped off and my simple maths
is never mentioned on TV or radio -
it's covered up by the Ministry of Truth.

Bobby. wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 2:59pm:

Still Brian - the arithmetic is telling. A$360 billion = US$227 billion. The Virginia class subs cost US$5 billion each according to Wiki. 227/ 5 =  45. So we could have 45 subs instead of only 8 subs for that money - that's if there was spare capacity to make them. Jesus Christ - we're getting so ripped off and my simple maths is never mentioned on TV or radio - it's covered up by the Ministry of Truth.

That is based on 2004 prices, Bobby.  The cost of subs has increased since then.  According to Gizmodo Magazine they cost on average 9 billion US Dollars each nowadays.  Then we have all the extras we are paying for.  You seem unwilling to admit that such things cost anything.  Why? 'Cause it demolishes your trolling posts.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 3:08pm:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 2:59pm: Still Brian - the arithmetic is telling. A$360 billion = US$227 billion. The Virginia class subs cost US$5 billion each according to Wiki. 227/ 5 =  45. So we could have 45 subs instead of only 8 subs for that money - that's if there was spare capacity to make them. Jesus Christ - we're getting so ripped off and my simple maths is never mentioned on TV or radio - it's covered up by the Ministry of Truth. That is based on 2004 prices, Bobby.  The cost of subs has increased since then.  According to Gizmodo Magazine they cost on average 9 billion US Dollars each nowadays.  Then we have all the extras we are paying for.  You seem unwilling to admit that such things cost anything.  Why? 'Cause it demolishes your trolling posts.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

$227b/9b =   25 submarines.  Still a rip off.

Bobby. wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 3:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:08pm: Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 2:59pm: Still Brian - the arithmetic is telling. A$360 billion = US$227 billion. The Virginia class subs cost US$5 billion each according to Wiki. 227/ 5 =  45. So we could have 45 subs instead of only 8 subs for that money - that's if there was spare capacity to make them. Jesus Christ - we're getting so ripped off and my simple maths is never mentioned on TV or radio - it's covered up by the Ministry of Truth. That is based on 2004 prices, Bobby.  The cost of subs has increased since then.  According to Gizmodo Magazine they cost on average 9 billion US Dollars each nowadays.  Then we have all the extras we are paying for.  You seem unwilling to admit that such things cost anything.  Why? 'Cause it demolishes your trolling posts.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) $227b/9b =   25 submarines.  Still a rip off

And the other things we are paying for, Bobby?  Why should the Americans give us those expensive things for free?   Is it because they like our accents and our surfing that much?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 3:16pm:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:11pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:08pm: Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 2:59pm: Still Brian - the arithmetic is telling. A$360 billion = US$227 billion. The Virginia class subs cost US$5 billion each according to Wiki. 227/ 5 =  45. So we could have 45 subs instead of only 8 subs for that money - that's if there was spare capacity to make them. Jesus Christ - we're getting so ripped off and my simple maths is never mentioned on TV or radio - it's covered up by the Ministry of Truth. That is based on 2004 prices, Bobby.  The cost of subs has increased since then.  According to Gizmodo Magazine they cost on average 9 billion US Dollars each nowadays.  Then we have all the extras we are paying for.  You seem unwilling to admit that such things cost anything.  Why? 'Cause it demolishes your trolling posts.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) $227b/9b =   25 submarines.  Still a rip off And the other things we are paying for, Bobby?  Why should the Americans give us those expensive things for free?   Is it because they like our accents and our surfing that much?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

We all know why Brian.
It's the "free" nuclear umbrella we get which isn't free.

Instead of the Yanks sending us an invoice for our share of the multi $trillions
they spend on nukes, they overcharge us for subs and everything else.
It's an accounting slight of hand.

Bobby. wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 3:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:16pm: Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:11pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:08pm: Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 2:59pm: Still Brian - the arithmetic is telling. A$360 billion = US$227 billion. The Virginia class subs cost US$5 billion each according to Wiki. 227/ 5 =  45. So we could have 45 subs instead of only 8 subs for that money - that's if there was spare capacity to make them. Jesus Christ - we're getting so ripped off and my simple maths is never mentioned on TV or radio - it's covered up by the Ministry of Truth. That is based on 2004 prices, Bobby.  The cost of subs has increased since then.  According to Gizmodo Magazine they cost on average 9 billion US Dollars each nowadays.  Then we have all the extras we are paying for.  You seem unwilling to admit that such things cost anything.  Why? 'Cause it demolishes your trolling posts.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) $227b/9b =   25 submarines.  Still a rip off And the other things we are paying for, Bobby?  Why should the Americans give us those expensive things for free?   Is it because they like our accents and our surfing that much?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) We all know why Brian. It's the "free" nuclear umbrella we get which isn't free. Instead of the Yanks sending us an invoice for our share of the multi $trillions they spend on nukes, they overcharge us for subs and everything else. It's an accounting slight of hand.

Gee, how do they then make the Europeans, the Canadians, the Asian nations like Japan and Taiwan pay for their supposed share of this supposedly free nuclear umbrella?  Seems to me like these get it all for free.  We have to pay, hey?  What a shame we have to pay.  Do you think we are paying enough for a nuclear umbrella that doesn't really cover Australia?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 3:27pm:

Gee, how do they then make the Europeans, the Canadians, the Asian nations like Japan and Taiwan pay for their supposed share of this supposedly free nuclear umbrella?  Seems to me like these get it all for free.  We have to pay, hey?  What a shame we have to pay.  Do you think we are paying enough for a nuclear umbrella that doesn't really cover Australia?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Brian,
all those countries pay for the nuclear umbrella too
by inflated prices for military purchases.

The nuclear weapons have become a millstone around the Yanks necks -
the cost to keep them operational and up to date is well over US$1 trillion - to be spent as of now.
The plutonium pits have to be pulled out every 10 years and the neutron initiators replaced and
the solid fuel has to be removed and replaced too as it doesn't last long either.
Very old pits have to be melted down and remade -
many other parts have to be upgraded and modernized.
A lot of the designs are from the 1960s and 1970s.   :-[

Bobby. wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 3:39pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:27pm: Gee, how do they then make the Europeans, the Canadians, the Asian nations like Japan and Taiwan pay for their supposed share of this supposedly free nuclear umbrella?  Seems to me like these get it all for free.  We have to pay, hey?  What a shame we have to pay.  Do you think we are paying enough for a nuclear umbrella that doesn't really cover Australia?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) Brian, all those countries pay for the nuclear umbrella too by inflated prices for military purchases.

Really? Care to provide a few examples of these supposedly over-inflated prices? I look forward to the fantasy reading in your Trollish post, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 4:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:39pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:27pm: Gee, how do they then make the Europeans, the Canadians, the Asian nations like Japan and Taiwan pay for their supposed share of this supposedly free nuclear umbrella?  Seems to me like these get it all for free.  We have to pay, hey?  What a shame we have to pay.  Do you think we are paying enough for a nuclear umbrella that doesn't really cover Australia?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) Brian, all those countries pay for the nuclear umbrella too by inflated prices for military purchases. Really? Care to provide a few examples of these supposedly over-inflated prices? I look forward to the fantasy reading in your Trollish post, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Good grief -

try buying military parts -
you'll pay $100 for a bolt you can find at Bunnings for 50 cents.
yes - a bolt used in a non critical area.  ::)

I saw a part once that was selling for $32,000
and it could be bought elsewhere direct from the factory but without a certificate for $3,500.

The whole military industrial complex is a rip off - for everything.

Bobby. wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 4:28pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:21pm: Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:39pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:27pm: Gee, how do they then make the Europeans, the Canadians, the Asian nations like Japan and Taiwan pay for their supposed share of this supposedly free nuclear umbrella?  Seems to me like these get it all for free.  We have to pay, hey?  What a shame we have to pay.  Do you think we are paying enough for a nuclear umbrella that doesn't really cover Australia?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) Brian, all those countries pay for the nuclear umbrella too by inflated prices for military purchases. Really? Care to provide a few examples of these supposedly over-inflated prices? I look forward to the fantasy reading in your Trollish post, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::) Good grief - try buying military parts - you'll pay $100 for a bolt you can find at Bunnings for 50 cents. yes - a bolt used in a non critical area.  ::) I saw a part once that was selling for $32,000 and it could be bought elsewhere direct from the factory but without a certificate for $3,500. The whole military industrial complex is a rip off - for everything.

Did you ever watch "West Wing" when it was popular on TV?  There was on episode where one character demonstrated to another why ashtrays cost so much more on US submarines.  They don't shatter, they just break.  In order to get work like that you must pay for it.  You must pay for materials, testing, etc. to prove that it doesn't shatter.  Those things cost.  They cost a lot.  Yes, sometimes the manufacturers over-charge on replacement parts but often they under-charge.  Bolts cost because they must be made especially, far more than low-quality civilian bolts.  You'd send servicepeople into battle with weapons that malfunction, aircraft/tanks/ships that don't work when they are needed.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 4:37pm:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:28pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:21pm: Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:39pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:27pm: Gee, how do they then make the Europeans, the Canadians, the Asian nations like Japan and Taiwan pay for their supposed share of this supposedly free nuclear umbrella?  Seems to me like these get it all for free.  We have to pay, hey?  What a shame we have to pay.  Do you think we are paying enough for a nuclear umbrella that doesn't really cover Australia?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) Brian, all those countries pay for the nuclear umbrella too by inflated prices for military purchases. Really? Care to provide a few examples of these supposedly over-inflated prices? I look forward to the fantasy reading in your Trollish post, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::) Good grief - try buying military parts - you'll pay $100 for a bolt you can find at Bunnings for 50 cents. yes - a bolt used in a non critical area.  ::) I saw a part once that was selling for $32,000 and it could be bought elsewhere direct from the factory but without a certificate for $3,500. The whole military industrial complex is a rip off - for everything. Did you ever watch "West Wing" when it was popular on TV?  There was on episode where one character demonstrated to another why ashtrays cost so much more on US submarines.  They don't shatter, they just break.  In order to get work like that you must pay for it.  You must pay for materials, testing, etc. to prove that it doesn't shatter.  Those things cost.  They cost a lot.  Yes, sometimes the manufacturers over-charge on replacement parts but often they under-charge.  Bolts cost because they must be made especially, far more than low-quality civilian bolts.  You'd send servicepeople into battle with weapons that malfunction, aircraft/tanks/ships that don't work when they are needed.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

In the example I gave -
you were paying $3,500 for the part and $28,500 for the certificate -
and all the middle men on the way.
I would say that the testing for that certificate would be one day's work - at most.   ::)

And yes - you couldn't install that part on a military machine without that certificate.

Bobby. wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 4:42pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:37pm: Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:28pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:21pm: Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:39pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:27pm: Gee, how do they then make the Europeans, the Canadians, the Asian nations like Japan and Taiwan pay for their supposed share of this supposedly free nuclear umbrella?  Seems to me like these get it all for free.  We have to pay, hey?  What a shame we have to pay.  Do you think we are paying enough for a nuclear umbrella that doesn't really cover Australia?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) Brian, all those countries pay for the nuclear umbrella too by inflated prices for military purchases. Really? Care to provide a few examples of these supposedly over-inflated prices? I look forward to the fantasy reading in your Trollish post, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::) Good grief - try buying military parts - you'll pay $100 for a bolt you can find at Bunnings for 50 cents. yes - a bolt used in a non critical area.  ::) I saw a part once that was selling for $32,000 and it could be bought elsewhere direct from the factory but without a certificate for $3,500. The whole military industrial complex is a rip off - for everything. Did you ever watch "West Wing" when it was popular on TV?  There was on episode where one character demonstrated to another why ashtrays cost so much more on US submarines.  They don't shatter, they just break.  In order to get work like that you must pay for it.  You must pay for materials, testing, etc. to prove that it doesn't shatter.  Those things cost.  They cost a lot.  Yes, sometimes the manufacturers over-charge on replacement parts but often they under-charge.  Bolts cost because they must be made especially, far more than low-quality civilian bolts.  You'd send servicepeople into battle with weapons that malfunction, aircraft/tanks/ships that don't work when they are needed.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) In the example I gave - you were paying $3,500 for the part and $28,500 for the certificate - and all the middle men on the way. I would say that the testing for that certificate would be one day's work - at most.   ::) And yes - you couldn't install that part on a military machine without that certificate.

The certificate costs, yes, Bobby and without the certificate you have no proof that it is made to Specification.  Not being made to specification means that it might not work the way it is wanted to, when it is wanted to.  Would you trust your life to such a component?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 8:19pm:

The certificate costs, yes, Bobby and without the certificate you have no proof that it is made to Specification.  Not being made to specification means that it might not work the way it is wanted to, when it is wanted to.  Would you trust your life to such a component?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

That is not my point of contention.
of course I wouldn't want anything without a CoC - A “Certificate of Conformance”
as a component in something that could cost my life.
The point is that they are making almost all of their money on the CoC -
in my example which I saw with my own eyes -
paying $3,500 for the part and $28,500 for the certificate -
that is excessive -
it wouldn't stand up in a time of total war -
they just get away with it in peacetime.   ::)

Bobby. wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 8:29pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 8:19pm: The certificate costs, yes, Bobby and without the certificate you have no proof that it is made to Specification.  Not being made to specification means that it might not work the way it is wanted to, when it is wanted to.  Would you trust your life to such a component?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) That is not my point of contention. of course I wouldn't want anything without a CoC - A “Certificate of Conformance” as a component in something that could cost my life. The point is that they are making almost all of their money on the CoC - in my example which I saw with my own eyes - paying $3,500 for the part and $28,500 for the certificate - that is excessive - it wouldn't stand up in a time of total war - they just get away with it in peacetime.   ::)

My, my, how naive and foolish you are, Bobby.  You expect highly skilled to work for nought to produce your Certificate?  Oh, dearie, dearie, me, you really are foolish you expect everything to be free.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 9:31pm:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 8:29pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 8:19pm: The certificate costs, yes, Bobby and without the certificate you have no proof that it is made to Specification.  Not being made to specification means that it might not work the way it is wanted to, when it is wanted to.  Would you trust your life to such a component?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) That is not my point of contention. of course I wouldn't want anything without a CoC - A “Certificate of Conformance” as a component in something that could cost my life. The point is that they are making almost all of their money on the CoC - in my example which I saw with my own eyes - paying $3,500 for the part and $28,500 for the certificate - that is excessive - it wouldn't stand up in a time of total war - they just get away with it in peacetime.   ::) My, my, how naive and foolish you are, Bobby.  You expect highly skilled to work for nought to produce your Certificate?  Oh, dearie, dearie, me, you really are foolish you expect everything to be free.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Not in war time - the Govt even steals patents and pays zero.

In a time of war the Govt will steal patents and pay out nothing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_patent_use_(United_States)


Quote:

Night-vision goggles (1990s) The United States Department of Defense began developing night-vision goggles in 1987. They purchased thousands for Operation Desert Storm alone. Gargoyles Inc. acquired the patent for protective eyewear from Pro-Tec Inc in 1988. They "commenced an action under 28 U.S.C. § 1498 for "reasonable and entire" compensation for direct infringement of the patent by the United States. Gargoyles lost their 1996 appeal.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-federal-circuit/1098010.html

they made  and delivered roughly 450,000 units
under the '6079 contract and several smaller contracts
and paid nothing.
Military made 450,000 units  and paid nothing
for the patents


GARGOYLES INC v. UNITED STATES (1997) | FindLaw

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, that is the US, it is not Oz, Bobby.  Things are very different downunder.  They are very different in the UK.  Patents get paid even to the enemy if they hold the Patent.  Vickers in the UK used German patents for it's fuzes and had to pay the Germans after the wars.  They had manufactured millions of German designed fuzes.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 12:34pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, that is the US, it is not Oz, Bobby.  Things are very different downunder.  They are very different in the UK.  Patents get paid even to the enemy if they hold the Patent.  Vickers in the UK used German patents for it's fuzes and had to pay the Germans after the wars.  They had manufactured millions of German designed fuzes.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

I'm just saying that in war time the military industrial complex would not get away
with charging  $28,500 for a certificate.

Can't you see that we're being ripped off?

UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 14^th, 2024 at 12:24pm:

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 12:08pm: A thought. Do we need subs at all? If we developed our own nuclear weapons. Placed around our island. Would that not be enough significant deter against any aggression towards our shores? Why are we looking always to the offensive position and always in support of American aggression? Why should we not just protect over selves and begone with fighting wars we have nothing to do with ? We don't need to develop nuclear weapons. We need to develop countermeasures for nuclear attacks.

I believe the opposite. There are no second prizes in a nuclear war.
Mutual and complete destruction once assured is the highest deterrent.

Bobby. wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 12:42pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 12:34pm: Oh, dearie, dearie, me, that is the US, it is not Oz, Bobby.  Things are very different downunder.  They are very different in the UK.  Patents get paid even to the enemy if they hold the Patent.  Vickers in the UK used German patents for it's fuzes and had to pay the Germans after the wars.  They had manufactured millions of German designed fuzes.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) I'm just saying that in war time the military industrial complex would not get away with charging  $28,500 for a certificate. Can't you see that we're being ripped off?

You're Trolling again, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 2:26pm:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 12:42pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 12:34pm: Oh, dearie, dearie, me, that is the US, it is not Oz, Bobby.  Things are very different downunder.  They are very different in the UK.  Patents get paid even to the enemy if they hold the Patent.  Vickers in the UK used German patents for it's fuzes and had to pay the Germans after the wars.  They had manufactured millions of German designed fuzes.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) I'm just saying that in war time the military industrial complex would not get away with charging  $28,500 for a certificate. Can't you see that we're being ripped off? You're Trolling again, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

You banned me from the Defence MRB -
when I'm one of the few people here who actually knows something about Defence.   ::)

Bobby. wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 2:29pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 2:26pm: Bobby. wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 12:42pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 12:34pm: Oh, dearie, dearie, me, that is the US, it is not Oz, Bobby.  Things are very different downunder.  They are very different in the UK.  Patents get paid even to the enemy if they hold the Patent.  Vickers in the UK used German patents for it's fuzes and had to pay the Germans after the wars.  They had manufactured millions of German designed fuzes.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) I'm just saying that in war time the military industrial complex would not get away with charging  $28,500 for a certificate. Can't you see that we're being ripped off? You're Trolling again, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) You banned me from the Defence MRB - when I'm one of the few people here who actually knows something about Defence.   ::)

Yeah, yeah, sure, Bobby, sure.  Lets get matron get you back to your bed, hey?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 12:34pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, that is the US, it is not Oz, Bobby.  Things are very different downunder.  They are very different in the UK.  Patents get paid even to the enemy if they hold the Patent.  Vickers in the UK used German patents for it's fuzes and had to pay the Germans after the wars.  They had manufactured millions of German designed fuzes.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

not read

::)

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 15^th, 2024 at 1:20pm:

I believe the opposite. There are no second prizes in a nuclear war. Mutual and complete destruction once assured is the highest deterrent.

You very much stink at battle strategy. If you have 1000 nuclear weapons ready to be deployed on an enemy, chances are they have nuclear weapons ready to deploy upon you. And the aggressor is always the one that gets the blame from the literal fallout.

Once you achieve complete destruction of your enemy, what happens then? Would you have to take on their allies? And their friends might end up being more determined to get back at you surreptitiously over the next decade.