‘Hate them’: Cafe owner shares consumer frustrations at public holiday costs
A cafe owner has been forced to defend a reviled price increase amid backlash from Aussies over the holiday period.


Dec 26 2024
News.com.au

An Australian cafe owner has been forced to defend public holiday surcharges which many businesses say do not cover the wage bills on those days.

Many consumers out enjoying some hospitality around Christmas time will be aware of the 10 to 15 per cent surcharge tacked onto their bills as a result of the public holidays.

Although the extra cost can cause a grimace at the register, restaurant or cafe owners are paying staff 1.5, 2 or even 2.5 times their base wage for working on public holidays.

Melbourne cafe operator Dan Dick does all he can to explain the cost pressures on small businesses.

Melbourne cafe owner Dan Dick says businesses simply cannot absorb the public holiday rates and regular award increases.

“This places a huge amount of pressure on operators like myself,” he says on his social media page, where he shares business insights and asks consumers their thoughts.

Furious punters have flooded the comment sections to vent their frustration at public holiday surcharges.

Yet Mr Dick has highlighted the cost for Australian businesses of industrial laws that protect people in casual and seasonal jobs with public holiday rates.

Mr Dick owns three cafes in Melbourne and uses social media to discuss the reality of running his businesses.

“I love football. Love it. Massive part of my life,” he said in one video.


“But having a public holiday for the grand final, on top of another public holiday in about a month for a f***ing horse race is dumb, and I hate them.”


Staff at Mr Dick’s cafes are entitled to double-time pay and a day in lieu for public holidays.   :)

During a live interview earlier this year about business pressures and surcharges, Karl Stefanovic called Mr Dick a “whinger”.

Mr Dick said businesses are unable to bear the costs without passing on price increases, including for the 3.75 per cent award increase for hospitality staff this year.

“My intention is, honestly, to pass that cost back onto the consumer as of July 1,” he said ahead of the wage increase.

He questioned what cafes could do – or what consumers could forego – to cut costs in future.

The good people of Australia love their public holidays.  People that work them should get the penalty rates.   :)

whiteknight wrote on Dec 27^th, 2024 at 6:43am:

The good people of Australia love their public holidays.  People that work them should get the penalty rates.   :)

I’d like to expand on this thought.

Sunday penalty rates came too be as a result of people having to work on the day of  Christian god call to rest.
So if you aren’t at church every Sunday you should be at work without penalty rates?

Not a Christian? Don’t believe in Jesus? Off to work you go every 25th December without any penalty rates.

Good bye Easter break oh non believer. You work and earn standard hourly rate.

Australian day!
Not a citizen? Work no penalty rates.
You object to the invasion of Australia by the British, don’t be a hypocrite. Work standard pay rate.

So your in favour of a republic and happy to celebrate the king’s birthday at work on normal pay!

Labor Day? Not in a union get in line and too your job, no penalty rates.

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 27^th, 2024 at 8:31pm:

whiteknight wrote on Dec 27th, 2024 at 6:43am: The good people of Australia love their public holidays.  People that work them should get the penalty rates.   :) I’d like to expand on this thought. Sunday penalty rates came too be as a result of people having to work on the day of  Christian god call to rest. So if you aren’t at church every Sunday you should be at work without penalty rates? Not a Christian? Don’t believe in Jesus? Off to work you go every 25th December without any penalty rates. Good bye Easter break oh non believer. You work and earn standard hourly rate. Australian day! Not a citizen? Work no penalty rates. You object to the invasion of Australia by the British, don’t be a hypocrite. Work standard pay rate. So your in favour of a republic and happy to celebrate the king’s birthday at work on normal pay! Labor Day? Not in a union get in line and too your job, no penalty rates.

Expand a bit further each worker is entitled to 10 public holidays a year, just because they fall on some celebrated religious days it is not compulsory to follow those religious celebrations. You can take your entitled day off and go fishing instead if you want.

I just don't get these type of stories, if you won't make any money on these days then don't open. What do they teach them in school now days.

Wages are a minor cost of cafes.

"In a cafe, wages can make up 25–35% of total sales. "

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 27^th, 2024 at 8:31pm:

Not a citizen? Work no penalty rates.

What's the reasoning behind that one?

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 27^th, 2024 at 9:19pm:

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 27th, 2024 at 8:31pm: Not a citizen? Work no penalty rates. What's the reasoning behind that one?

Firstly please-

“What is hyperbole? Hyperbole is a purposeful exaggeration not meant to be taken literally. It is used to emphasize or draw attention to a certain element in a story.8 Feb 2023“

Secondly - well if your not an Australian citizen why should you have Australian day off or be paid penalties?

This could be a interesting.

I’m particularly interested in why anyone working in Australia is “ entitled to ten paid days off a year “?

Leroy wrote on Dec 27^th, 2024 at 8:48pm:

I just don't get these type of stories, if you won't make any money on these days then don't open. What do they teach them in school now days.

Very valid point.

I believe it’s so difficult in small business at the moment.
Particularly in hospitality at the moment that some businesses owners are simply rolling the dice.
If no other venues open  on the public holiday they are going make good money.

If they have to compete then everyone will struggle to break even.

It’s hunger games literally.

Those with the deepest pockets should win but if they blink….

Although not opening if sales to wages is not viable, there is another option. Spread those ten or so public holiday costs over the the other three fifty five days. It's called planning. What did business do before the cry to cut penalties?

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 27^th, 2024 at 9:47pm:

Secondly - well if your not an Australian citizen why should you have Australian day off or be paid penalties?

Cause it's not about any one person ::)

Since when was it written into law that cafe's must make a profit on each and every day? I worked in a pizza restaurant for years. Back then, on Mondays and Tuesdays you usually barely made enough to cover the costs. They opened because customers expected it, and it bought them good will for the other five days of the week. Boss didn't want the customers to try another restaurant because he was closed, and then the customer make the other their regular because they were open when he wasn't.

At the end of the week once all the wages and expenses were paid, it proved to be very profitable for them so their was some method to his madness.

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 27^th, 2024 at 8:31pm:

whiteknight wrote on Dec 27th, 2024 at 6:43am: The good people of Australia love their public holidays.  People that work them should get the penalty rates.   :) I’d like to expand on this thought. Sunday penalty rates came too be as a result of people having to work on the day of  Christian god call to rest. So if you aren’t at church every Sunday you should be at work without penalty rates? Not a Christian? Don’t believe in Jesus? Off to work you go every 25th December without any penalty rates. Good bye Easter break oh non believer. You work and earn standard hourly rate. Australian day! Not a citizen? Work no penalty rates. You object to the invasion of Australia by the British, don’t be a hypocrite. Work standard pay rate. So your in favour of a republic and happy to celebrate the king’s birthday at work on normal pay! Labor Day? Not in a union get in line and too your job, no penalty rates.

All you're pushing is an American system where they pay shyte wages, have very few public holidays and they don't pay penalty rates.

Religion/Religious based or not everyone deserves some quality time off with friends & family .... it's called "work, life, balance".

Those who work on public holidays deserve their penalty rates ... most of which have seen reductions in those rates anyway.

They work so everyone can go out on weekends & public holidays to sip their lattes and take their wooly wooftah handbag dogs for their Cafe Dog Shows.

Small Businesses are always whinging about paying them ... yet they put all sorts of surcharges on ... like eftpos surcharges for using your card 7 days a week.

And the mark up on food & beverages in popular holiday spots is always higher.

If they don't want to pay penalty rates then do the work yourself.

Setanta wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 1:27am:

Although not opening if sales to wages is not viable, there is another option. Spread those ten or so public holiday costs over the the other three fifty five days. It's called planning. What did business do before the cry to cut penalties?

It's not that long ago that business were required by law to shut.

"Spreading the costs" does not make sense. They are not a charity. They are not there out of some sense of duty to serve you on a public holiday. I am sure the owners would rather keep whatever profits they make on other days. This is not less silly than asking the employees to donate part of their salary to cover the losses incurred.

Businesses and employees should be given the flexibility to decide whatever arrangements they want. If both the business and the employ want to work on any given day, the government should not be imposing restrictions that force them not to.

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 10:21am:

"Spreading the costs" does not make sense. They are not a charity. They are not there out of some sense of duty to serve you on a public holiday. I am sure the owners would rather keep whatever profits they make on other days. This is not less silly than asking the employees to donate part of their salary to cover the losses incurred.

so don't open. It's not that difficult.

John Smith wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 10:38am:

freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:21am: "Spreading the costs" does not make sense. They are not a charity. They are not there out of some sense of duty to serve you on a public holiday. I am sure the owners would rather keep whatever profits they make on other days. This is not less silly than asking the employees to donate part of their salary to cover the losses incurred. so don't open. It's not that difficult.

How would you feel if the government placed arbitrary restrictions on your business that prevented you from working?

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 10:48am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:38am: freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:21am: "Spreading the costs" does not make sense. They are not a charity. They are not there out of some sense of duty to serve you on a public holiday. I am sure the owners would rather keep whatever profits they make on other days. This is not less silly than asking the employees to donate part of their salary to cover the losses incurred. so don't open. It's not that difficult. How would you feel if the government placed arbitrary restrictions on your business that prevented you from working?

Arbitrary??

I am rational, you are emotional, he is arbitrary.

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 10:48am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:38am: freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:21am: "Spreading the costs" does not make sense. They are not a charity. They are not there out of some sense of duty to serve you on a public holiday. I am sure the owners would rather keep whatever profits they make on other days. This is not less silly than asking the employees to donate part of their salary to cover the losses incurred. so don't open. It's not that difficult. How would you feel if the government placed arbitrary restrictions on your business that prevented you from working?

They have, I would have 250 people working for me but arbitrary restrictions on my business means it would not be profitable because I would have to pay them more than I would make. If I could pay $2 an hour I would make a killing.

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 10:48am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:38am: freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:21am: "Spreading the costs" does not make sense. They are not a charity. They are not there out of some sense of duty to serve you on a public holiday. I am sure the owners would rather keep whatever profits they make on other days. This is not less silly than asking the employees to donate part of their salary to cover the losses incurred. so don't open. It's not that difficult. How would you feel if the government placed arbitrary restrictions on your business that prevented you from working?

Well yes they are....if not don't open.

They're are more regulations/red tape to affect business operations bottom line than the payment of penalty rates on weekends & public holidays.

The suggestion that staff work it out with a small business boss about how they get paid is laughable as bosses belong to business associations(Unions of Employers) and their staff in the main are not in Unions. So they have no one to look after their best interests.

If they all had the ability to negotiate good wage outcomes.... then they surely wouldn't be working as a shop assistant.

Leroy wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 10:56am:

freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:48am: John Smith wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:38am: freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:21am: "Spreading the costs" does not make sense. They are not a charity. They are not there out of some sense of duty to serve you on a public holiday. I am sure the owners would rather keep whatever profits they make on other days. This is not less silly than asking the employees to donate part of their salary to cover the losses incurred. so don't open. It's not that difficult. How would you feel if the government placed arbitrary restrictions on your business that prevented you from working? They have, I would have 250 people working for me but arbitrary restrictions on my business means it would not be profitable because I would have to pay them more than I would make. If I could pay $2 an hour I would make a killing.

Yeah righto Gina.  ::)

Leroy wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 10:56am:

freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:48am: John Smith wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:38am: freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:21am: "Spreading the costs" does not make sense. They are not a charity. They are not there out of some sense of duty to serve you on a public holiday. I am sure the owners would rather keep whatever profits they make on other days. This is not less silly than asking the employees to donate part of their salary to cover the losses incurred. so don't open. It's not that difficult. How would you feel if the government placed arbitrary restrictions on your business that prevented you from working? They have, I would have 250 people working for me but arbitrary restrictions on my business means it would not be profitable because I would have to pay them more than I would make. If I could pay $2 an hour I would make a killing.

No you wouldn't. Who do you think would work for you for $2 per hour?

This is the myth promoted by the unions - that they, rather than market forces, are the real drivers of salary.


Quote:

So they have no one to look after their best interests.

Are you saying they are incapable of thinking for themselves?


Quote:

then they surely wouldn't be working as a shop assistant

The thing about being a shop assistant is, the skills are easily transferable to a large number of alternative employers.

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 10:48am:

How would you feel if the government placed arbitrary restrictions on your business that prevented you from working?

I don't have a problem with it. I pay wages and have no issue with paying people extra to work when I need them to.

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 11:52am:

No you wouldn't. Who do you think would work for you for $2 per hour?

The ones that would want their passports back but due to arbitrary restrictions on my business I'm not allowed to hold their passports.

A reasonable responsible cafe or business owner would do their own due diligence and it is simple math that determines if opening on a PH is viable.

The business I worked in for a time was in a tourist area and the turn over on a public holiday was in the order of $15K on average higher than another day The max I seen was $22K. staff costs were easily made with several hundred % of profit on top.

I would imagine a cafe in a commercial area behind locked gates would make zero that day.

This guys restaurant is in Camberwell it is a very small cafe open Monday to Friday - closed Sat Sun and PH's..

Leroy wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 12:55pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 11:52am: No you wouldn't. Who do you think would work for you for $2 per hour? The ones that would want their passports back but due to arbitrary restrictions on my business I'm not allowed to hold their passports.

The Australian Federal Police has revealed there was a sharp rise in alleged human slavery and trafficking offences this year.

As the year comes to a close, the agency said it had charged 790 people with 1848 offences across the country in 2024.

Shockingly, the AFP said reports of human slavery reached an all-time high during the year with a 12 per cent increase in 2023-24 compared with the previous year.

John Smith wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 12:32pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:48am: How would you feel if the government placed arbitrary restrictions on your business that prevented you from working? I don't have a problem with it. I pay wages and have no issue with paying people extra to work when I need them to.

Are you saying you would happily do jobs you lose money on because salaries are too high? Or did you just miss the point?

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 27^th, 2024 at 8:31pm:

whiteknight wrote on Dec 27th, 2024 at 6:43am: The good people of Australia love their public holidays.  People that work them should get the penalty rates.   :) I’d like to expand on this thought. Sunday penalty rates came too be as a result of people having to work on the day of  Christian god call to rest. So if you aren’t at church every Sunday you should be at work without penalty rates? Not a Christian? Don’t believe in Jesus? Off to work you go every 25th December without any penalty rates. Good bye Easter break oh non believer. You work and earn standard hourly rate. Australian day! Not a citizen? Work no penalty rates. You object to the invasion of Australia by the British, don’t be a hypocrite. Work standard pay rate. So your in favour of a republic and happy to celebrate the king’s birthday at work on normal pay! Labor Day? Not in a union get in line and too your job, no penalty rates.

Well said Dave.

I've always said that those 'celebrity' Media pushing Republicans here who pipe up against Monarchists (not that the Monarchy, as Masters of Ceremony, have anything to do with Politics compared to the 'British' side) and Great Britain on the Flag...
...should be working without Penalty Rates on the Queen's or King's Birthday Public Holiday.

It's really just Unionism money grubbing at the cost of the Consumer Public. Everything the Union does for 'the worker' is on the backs of the Consumer/Public paying for it.

The thing about Union Workers is that you know they're in it for the money.
Great Employers know how to keep their best Staff without them needing parasitic Unionism cashing in between them.
It's no different to Employment Agency middle-men taking their cut from Employers for their 'hired' employees.

Personally, I've always told my new Employer (if I like them) that I'm not in the Union, but I am a Confederate. Which they like and laugh.

How can you tell a worker is a Yankee Unionist?
He takes 'da money' while the Confederate Worker is shagging his wife.  ;D
I mean - when you're a 'worker', you're not 'rich'. ;)
So why be in the Union and think that you are.  ;D

Quote:

I've always said that those 'celebrity' Media pushing Republicans here who pipe up against Monarchists (not that the Monarchy, as Masters of Ceremony, have anything to do with Politics compared to the 'British' side) and Great Britain on the Flag... ...should be working without Penalty Rates on the Queen's or King's Birthday Public Holiday.

They probably are.

Dnarever wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 1:58pm:

This guys restaurant is in Camberwell it is a very small cafe open Monday to Friday - closed Sat Sun and PH's..

That’s interesting. I wonder if his actually making more money than his business via his cafe owner influencer website?

What happens when you close on public holidays and your staff seek employment with a business that opens and therefore their wages improved.

Does this leave the duds working for business that can’t afford to pay for the busiest days?

What is your opinion on paying as a customer Sunday and public holiday surcharges?
Even if the venue is clearly doing a roaring trade on the day?

Edit- I dislike to ask a question without putting imo forward first.
I have no issue with it, I simply don’t tip.

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 8:24pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 1:58pm: This guys restaurant is in Camberwell it is a very small cafe open Monday to Friday - closed Sat Sun and PH's.. That’s interesting. I wonder if his actually making more money than his business via his cafe owner influencer website? What happens when you close on public holidays and your staff seek employment with a business that opens and therefore their wages improved. Does this leave the duds working for business that can’t afford to pay for the busiest days? What is your opinion on paying as a customer Sunday and public holiday surcharges? Even if the venue is clearly doing a roaring trade on the day?

I don't want to pay them, but I have no problem with the venue charging them.

Their business, their prices.

However, I think they should factor those charges into their prices over the course of the year.

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 8:24pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 1:58pm: This guys restaurant is in Camberwell it is a very small cafe open Monday to Friday - closed Sat Sun and PH's.. That’s interesting. I wonder if his actually making more money than his business via his cafe owner influencer website? What happens when you close on public holidays and your staff seek employment with a business that opens and therefore their wages improved. Does this leave the duds working for business that can’t afford to pay for the busiest days? What is your opinion on paying as a customer Sunday and public holiday surcharges? Even if the venue is clearly doing a roaring trade on the day? Edit- I dislike to ask a question without putting imo forward first. I have no issue with it, I simply don’t tip.

Some very good workers prefer to have public holidays off, also good workers tend to get better wages due to good work practices. They don't have to chase better wages businesses chase them.

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 11:52am:

Leroy wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:56am: freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:48am: John Smith wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:38am: freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:21am: "Spreading the costs" does not make sense. They are not a charity. They are not there out of some sense of duty to serve you on a public holiday. I am sure the owners would rather keep whatever profits they make on other days. This is not less silly than asking the employees to donate part of their salary to cover the losses incurred. so don't open. It's not that difficult. How would you feel if the government placed arbitrary restrictions on your business that prevented you from working? They have, I would have 250 people working for me but arbitrary restrictions on my business means it would not be profitable because I would have to pay them more than I would make. If I could pay $2 an hour I would make a killing. No you wouldn't. Who do you think would work for you for $2 per hour? This is the myth promoted by the unions - that they, rather than market forces, are the real drivers of salary. Quote: So they have no one to look after their best interests. Are you saying they are incapable of thinking for themselves? [quote]then they surely wouldn't be working as a shop assistant

The thing about being a shop assistant is, the skills are easily transferable to a large number of alternative employers.[/quote]


It's not a myth - and it wasn't $2 per hour.

It was $2 per day .... quoted by Gina Rinehart in 2012.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-05/rinehart-says-aussie-workers-overpaid-unproductive/4243866

Jasin wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 3:57pm:

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 27th, 2024 at 8:31pm: whiteknight wrote on Dec 27th, 2024 at 6:43am: The good people of Australia love their public holidays.  People that work them should get the penalty rates.   :) I’d like to expand on this thought. Sunday penalty rates came too be as a result of people having to work on the day of  Christian god call to rest. So if you aren’t at church every Sunday you should be at work without penalty rates? Not a Christian? Don’t believe in Jesus? Off to work you go every 25th December without any penalty rates. Good bye Easter break oh non believer. You work and earn standard hourly rate. Australian day! Not a citizen? Work no penalty rates. You object to the invasion of Australia by the British, don’t be a hypocrite. Work standard pay rate. So your in favour of a republic and happy to celebrate the king’s birthday at work on normal pay! Labor Day? Not in a union get in line and too your job, no penalty rates. Well said Dave. I've always said that those 'celebrity' Media pushing Republicans here who pipe up against Monarchists (not that the Monarchy, as Masters of Ceremony, have anything to do with Politics compared to the 'British' side) and Great Britain on the Flag... ...should be working without Penalty Rates on the Queen's or King's Birthday Public Holiday. It's really just Unionism money grubbing at the cost of the Consumer Public. Everything the Union does for 'the worker' is on the backs of the Consumer/Public paying for it. The thing about Union Workers is that you know they're in it for the money. Great Employers know how to keep their best Staff without them needing parasitic Unionism cashing in between them. It's no different to Employment Agency middle-men taking their cut from Employers for their 'hired' employees. Personally, I've always told my new Employer (if I like them) that I'm not in the Union, but I am a Confederate. Which they like and laugh. How can you tell a worker is a Yankee Unionist? He takes 'da money' while the Confederate Worker is shagging his wife.  ;D I mean - when you're a 'worker', you're not 'rich'. ;) So why be in the Union and think that you are.  ;D

You're usual scab tainted BS logic.

Take what is union won & don't contribute - and stab another worker in the back to get his job.

No worker in a Union thinks that they are rich.

You still can't answer why bosses belong to business associations that are Unions? - Unions of Employers.

Gnads wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 9:04am:

It's not a myth - and it wasn't $2 per hour. It was $2 per day .... quoted by Gina Rinehart in 2012. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-05/rinehart-says-aussie-workers-overpaid-unproductive/4243866

China is structuring itself to move away from Australian iron ore, this will happen in the next decade.


Quote:

Mrs Rinehart says Australians should not be complacent about the investment pipeline given that African labourers will work for less than $2 a day. "Business as usual will not do, not when West African competitors can offer our biggest customers an average capital cost for a tonne of iron ore that's $100 under the price offered by an emerging producer in the Pilbara," she said. "Furthermore, Africans want to work, and its workers are willing to work for less than $2 per day. Such statistics make me worry for this country's future."

Gnads wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 9:04am:

freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 11:52am: Leroy wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:56am: freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:48am: John Smith wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:38am: freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:21am: "Spreading the costs" does not make sense. They are not a charity. They are not there out of some sense of duty to serve you on a public holiday. I am sure the owners would rather keep whatever profits they make on other days. This is not less silly than asking the employees to donate part of their salary to cover the losses incurred. so don't open. It's not that difficult. How would you feel if the government placed arbitrary restrictions on your business that prevented you from working? They have, I would have 250 people working for me but arbitrary restrictions on my business means it would not be profitable because I would have to pay them more than I would make. If I could pay $2 an hour I would make a killing. No you wouldn't. Who do you think would work for you for $2 per hour? This is the myth promoted by the unions - that they, rather than market forces, are the real drivers of salary. Quote: So they have no one to look after their best interests. Are you saying they are incapable of thinking for themselves? [quote]then they surely wouldn't be working as a shop assistant The thing about being a shop assistant is, the skills are easily transferable to a large number of alternative employers.

It's not a myth - and it wasn't $2 per hour.

It was $2 per day .... quoted by Gina Rinehart in 2012.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-05/rinehart-says-aussie-workers-overpaid-unproductive/4243866[/quote]

And?

Are you going to take those African countries to court because you think they are underpaying their staff?

She speaks the truth. Though it is more about China at the moment. Lifting a billion Chinese people out of poverty has stagnated wages for the western middle class. And you cannot legislate against it. Why do you think we don't make cars here any more? But we can make a half decent latte.

I remember when holidays meant everyone was on holiday, not working.

Jasin wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 10:39am:

I remember when holidays meant everyone was on holiday, not working.

I remember when most shops in the city closed at 12 noon Saturday and didn't open again until Monday morning.

Closed until Tuesday morning if it was a long weekend with a Monday holiday.

At least here in Perth they did. And, if you needed petrol there were only a few 'roster' stations open on the weekend... and they only sold petrol, not "everything but the kitchen sink" like they do today.

And no big suburban shopping centres like today, most people did their shopping in the city.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure hot cross buns for Easter didn't appear in the shops the day after Boxing Day (like they have again this year).

And Boxing Day sales didn't start a week before December 26th and were still going on until at least the week after Boxing Day.

How did we ever manage to survive back in those days 50-60 years ago?

I know Carl. The mind boggles.
It's a scam. If businesses couldn't afford penalty rates, they wouldn't open. But they can and use it as an excuse to charge excessively with price rises and surcharges. Petrol went up 10c this past week.

Jasin wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 11:02am:

I know Carl. The mind boggles. It's a scam. If businesses couldn't afford penalty rates, they wouldn't open. But they can and use it as an excuse to charge excessively with price rises and surcharges. Petrol went up 10c this past week.

The Cafe the guy complaining in the article pays no penalty rates. His small cafe is open Monday to Friday - closed Sat Sun and PH's. 

Remind me again what he is complaining about ? Is it a pay rate he doesn't have to pay ?

3rd paragraph of OP
...which many businesses say don't cover the wages

Carl D wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 10:57am:

Jasin wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 10:39am: I remember when holidays meant everyone was on holiday, not working. I remember when most shops in the city closed at 12 noon Saturday and didn't open again until Monday morning. Closed until Tuesday morning if it was a long weekend with a Monday holiday. At least here in Perth they did. And, if you needed petrol there were only a few 'roster' stations open on the weekend... and they only sold petrol, not "everything but the kitchen sink" like they do today. And no big suburban shopping centres like today, most people did their shopping in the city. Oh, and I'm pretty sure hot cross buns for Easter didn't appear in the shops the day after Boxing Day (like they have again this year). And Boxing Day sales didn't start a week before December 26th and were still going on until at least the week after Boxing Day. How did we ever manage to survive back in those days 50-60 years ago?

I remember being told stories of French cities closing at midday Saturday. Petrol stations closed but petrol could be purchased by putting coins in the pump, until it was widely known a correct sized metal washer work as well .
Sunday was a day of rest and church.
It was acceptable the hospital , fire and police worked.

No shop dared open!
It would be broke by end of weeks as the citizens would boycott it completely out of disgust!

I’m unsure but families and community seemed to mean much more than money I suspect back than?

Jasin wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 11:02am:

I know Carl. The mind boggles. It's a scam. If businesses couldn't afford penalty rates, they wouldn't open. But they can and use it as an excuse to charge excessively with price rises and surcharges. Petrol went up 10c this past week.

Petrol is a thread on its own.

This cafe owner is confusing.
I still suspect his cafe is just a blogger running the cafe on the side?
Perhaps he doesn’t even have staff?

I do not know.

I do know it’s been a terrible time in hospitality industry and for small business in general.
We really need solutions otherwise we will have a country who’s only employment is working in or for government.
That’s a house of cards waiting to collapse.

Jasin wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 2:42pm:

3rd paragraph of OP ...which many businesses say don't cover the wages

Yes then the commercial decision is to not open as there is insufficient demand to open. If their service was needed by the community then it would be profitable.

I managed a cafe / take away shop in a tourist area. The public holiday turnover would be many hundred percent greater than for an average day. there was a strong comercial case to be open and to pay penalty rates easily. It is a case by case decision.  A smart business will be fluid on the day. An example would be a rainy PH where the crowd doesn't turn up. Of 8 staff 4/5 would likely work minimum hours and go home.

Never seen this business make a loss on a PH. there would be businesses that could not possibly make a PH profit, they have no place in opening. Wages are most likely not the problem they would not be viable on flat wages. Many businesses cannot open on weekends. This is mostly a demand issue not a wages one.

A business managements ineptitude is never the fault of the employees. This guys cafe seems to have a demand issue, on Weekends he doesn't have the mon to friday business trade in his business location. There is always insufficient passing trade to support his business. This isn't penalty rates driven it is demand for his service driven. 

An example would be a cafe in an industrial park which would have no PH demand, there is nobody there to buy anything.

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 2:54pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 11:02am: I know Carl. The mind boggles. It's a scam. If businesses couldn't afford penalty rates, they wouldn't open. But they can and use it as an excuse to charge excessively with price rises and surcharges. Petrol went up 10c this past week. Petrol is a thread on its own. This cafe owner is confusing. I still suspect his cafe is just a blogger running the cafe on the side? Perhaps he doesn’t even have staff? I do not know. I do know it’s been a terrible time in hospitality industry and for small business in general. We really need solutions otherwise we will have a country who’s only employment is working in or for government. That’s a house of cards waiting to collapse.

Quote:

I still suspect his cafe is just a blogger running the cafe on the side?

He has at least 2 businesses one is the cafe and possible a chain of them, the second is a coffee distribution, He does specialist coffees.

Nigel's Cafe (his web page includes opening hours mon to fri)

https://camberwellshopping.com.au/trader/nigel/

Born and raised coffee. (WebSite closed for Holidays)

https://bornandraised.coffee/

He is also prolific in the media and has clips on youtube

Dnarever

Thank you, I’ll explore his blogging.
His obviously committed too the industry with three connected businesses so I expect very worth reading.

There should be no minimum wage.  There should be no payroll tax.

We are importing cheap labor - what's the point if you have to pay them inflated wages? It makes no sense to do both. Why bring in hundreds of thousands of third worlders for jobs 'Australians wouldn't do", then pay them Australian wages?

Cheap labour should get lower wages

Frank wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

There should be no payroll tax.

The truth does set us free!

My understanding is it’s a relic from ww2 tax?

It’s totally inappropriate today.
It actually penalised employers from hiring people who wish to work!

How’s that’s in our country best interests???

However both Albo and soon to be pm Duddo say nothing.

Both major parties are addicted to taxing everyone too the hilt and wasting our money how ever they wish!

Some politician step up and say they will remove this unfair tax and you will have my vote!

There most certainly should be a minimum wage.  Thank heavens for the good unions of Australia.   :) 

whiteknight wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 7:30pm:

There most certainly should be a minimum wage.  Thank heavens for the good unions of Australia.   :)

Would you deny someone the right to choose for themself to work for slightly less at a job they preferred to do, or the only one they are able to get?

The minimum wage is exactly that.  Now if employers want to pay more, then yes please do so.   :)

whiteknight wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 7:40pm:

The minimum wage is exactly that.  Now if employers want to pay more, then yes please do so.   :)

Are you having difficulty understanding the question?

Would you deny someone the right to choose for themself to work for slightly less at a job they preferred to do, or the only one they are able to get?

Frank wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

There should be no minimum wage.  There should be no payroll tax. We are importing cheap labor - what's the point if you have to pay them inflated wages? It makes no sense to do both. Why bring in hundreds of thousands of third worlders for jobs 'Australians wouldn't do", then pay them Australian wages?

Because people who work in Australia get paid Australian wages.

It has nothing to do with nationality, gender, or where you were born.

When you work in Australia, you get paid according to Australian legislation.

Why would anybody object to that?

I would prefer the person where ever they work, was paid no less than the minimum wage.   :(

whiteknight wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 7:46pm:

I would prefer the person where ever they work, was paid no less than the minimum wage.   :(

Do you understand that if you deny people the right to work, they get paid nothing? You make them unemployed.

Now that you understand the consequences, would you like to have another go at answering? Would you deny someone the right to choose for themself to work for slightly less at a job they preferred to do, or the only one they are able to get?

What makes you think the what you would prefer ought to over-ride what they prefer? Do you consider them to be incapable of thinking for themselves? After all, you do not know and do not care about their specific circumstances, but they do. They might even get paid less because of your actions, once you consider all the other costs you impose on them by denying them the right to choose for themselves.

No they should not work for less than the minimum wage.   :(

whiteknight wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 7:51pm:

No they should not work for less than the minimum wage.   :(

Even if they end up with more money and more time at the end of the day?

Why do you think you have the right to deny them that choice?

Because people shouldn't have to work for a bowl of rice a day.   :(

Frank wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

There should be no minimum wage.  There should be no payroll tax. We are importing cheap labor - what's the point if you have to pay them inflated wages? It makes no sense to do both. Why bring in hundreds of thousands of third worlders for jobs 'Australians wouldn't do", then pay them Australian wages?

So, if they aren't paid Australian wages I assume you don't want them to pay high Australian rents.

They shouldn't pay exorbitant Australian grocery prices.

They don't need to obey road rules, or any other Australian laws.

If they are exempt from Australian legislation regarding wages and working conditions, then they should be exempt from all Australian legislation, rules, codes, regulations, practices and customs - yeah?

I remember back in the 1990s in Melbourne -

a sweat shop was closed down that employed Asian workers
in the textile industry - mostly doing sewing with sewing machines -
and they were paid only $2 an hour.
The employer had taken their passports and many were overstayers
on holiday visas working illegally.

It probably still goes on today.

Bobby. wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 8:00pm:

I remember back in the 1990s in Melbourne - a sweat shop was closed down that employed Asian workers in the textile industry - mostly doing sewing with sewing machines - and they were paid only $2 an hour. The employer had taken their passports and many were overstayers on holiday visas working illegally. It probably still goes on today.

And Frank's okay with that.

freediver wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 7:53pm:

whiteknight wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 7:51pm: No they should not work for less than the minimum wage.   :( Even if they end up with more money and more time at the end of the day? Why do you think you have the right to deny them that choice?

whiteknight wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 7:55pm:

Because people shouldn't have to work for a bowl of rice a day.   :(

Were you responding to my question? What part of more money and more time did you not understand? Do you have to hand over your empathy for other people when you sign up to a union? Is it now inconceivable for you that people might want something other than what the unions have to offer?

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 8:07pm:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 8:00pm: I remember back in the 1990s in Melbourne - a sweat shop was closed down that employed Asian workers in the textile industry - mostly doing sewing with sewing machines - and they were paid only $2 an hour. The employer had taken their passports and many were overstayers on holiday visas working illegally. It probably still goes on today. And Frank's okay with that.

Is he?

Bobby. wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 8:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 8:07pm: Bobby. wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 8:00pm: I remember back in the 1990s in Melbourne - a sweat shop was closed down that employed Asian workers in the textile industry - mostly doing sewing with sewing machines - and they were paid only $2 an hour. The employer had taken their passports and many were overstayers on holiday visas working illegally. It probably still goes on today. And Frank's okay with that. Is he?

Absolutely.

He's all for exploiting foreign workers.

"We are importing cheap labor - what's the point if you have to pay them inflated wages? It makes no sense to do both. Why bring in hundreds of thousands of third worlders for jobs 'Australians wouldn't do", then pay them Australian wages?"

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 8:12pm:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 8:09pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 8:07pm: Bobby. wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 8:00pm: I remember back in the 1990s in Melbourne - a sweat shop was closed down that employed Asian workers in the textile industry - mostly doing sewing with sewing machines - and they were paid only $2 an hour. The employer had taken their passports and many were overstayers on holiday visas working illegally. It probably still goes on today. And Frank's okay with that. Is he? Absolutely. He's all for exploiting foreign workers. "We are importing cheap labor - what's the point if you have to pay them inflated wages? It makes no sense to do both. Why bring in hundreds of thousands of third worlders for jobs 'Australians wouldn't do", then pay them Australian wages?"

OK -  $2 an hour it is.

freediver wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 7:47pm:

whiteknight wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 7:46pm: I would prefer the person where ever they work, was paid no less than the minimum wage.   :( Do you understand that if you deny people the right to work, they get paid nothing? You make them unemployed. Now that you understand the consequences, would you like to have another go at answering? Would you deny someone the right to choose for themself to work for slightly less at a job they preferred to do, or the only one they are able to get? What makes you think the what you would prefer ought to over-ride what they prefer? Do you consider them to be incapable of thinking for themselves? After all, you do not know and do not care about their specific circumstances, but they do. They might even get paid less because of your actions, once you consider all the other costs you impose on them by denying them the right to choose for themselves.

People have the right to work for whatever they want. If you want you can register as a small business and clean peoples houses for $2hr, the only thing you can't do is employ someone else to do the same. Anyone can work for a low income if they need to survive. For some its easier to lean on the government than putting in the effort to survive.

Jasin wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 5:35pm:

Cheap labour should get lower wages

The minimum wage is a low wage. In fact it is the low wage and it is real cheap.

Leroy wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 8:39pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 7:47pm: whiteknight wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 7:46pm: I would prefer the person where ever they work, was paid no less than the minimum wage.   :( Do you understand that if you deny people the right to work, they get paid nothing? You make them unemployed. Now that you understand the consequences, would you like to have another go at answering? Would you deny someone the right to choose for themself to work for slightly less at a job they preferred to do, or the only one they are able to get? What makes you think the what you would prefer ought to over-ride what they prefer? Do you consider them to be incapable of thinking for themselves? After all, you do not know and do not care about their specific circumstances, but they do. They might even get paid less because of your actions, once you consider all the other costs you impose on them by denying them the right to choose for themselves. People have the right to work for whatever they want. If you want you can register as a small business and clean peoples houses for $2hr, the only thing you can't do is employ someone else to do the same. Anyone can work for a low income if they need to survive. For some its easier to lean on the government than putting in the effort to survive.

Working for $2 an hour you probably are not going to survive.

Cheap Asian labour should get lower pays. Especially when it takes a whole Asian family to change a lightbulb.

Jasin wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 9:17pm:

Cheap Asian labour should get lower pays. Especially when it takes a whole Asian family to change a lightbulb.

In most countries including Australia and the USA Asians clean up all the academic awards ?

Seems to be a distance between your opinions and the known facts.

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 2:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 12:32pm: freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:48am: How would you feel if the government placed arbitrary restrictions on your business that prevented you from working? I don't have a problem with it. I pay wages and have no issue with paying people extra to work when I need them to. Are you saying you would happily do jobs you lose money on because salaries are too high? Or did you just miss the point?

I'm saying I have no problem paying people penalty rates if I decide to open on a public holiday. The only point I missed is the one that you run away from. Nowhere is it written that I am to be guaranteed to make a profit each and every day I open. It is up to me to decide if it is worthwhile or not.

Carl D wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 10:57am:

I remember when most shops in the city closed at 12 noon Saturday and didn't open again until Monday morning. Closed until Tuesday morning if it was a long weekend with a Monday holiday.

AND the BUSINESS OWNERS pushed for their trading hours to be expanded knowing penalty rates were a thing and now they're the ones crying penalty rates prevent them making a profit on those days.

:D :D :D :D

freediver wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 8:07pm:

What part of more money and more time did you not understand?

no one is stopping anyone from paying more. The ones crying are those that want to pay LESS

John Smith wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 6:39am:

freediver wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 8:07pm: What part of more money and more time did you not understand? no one is stopping anyone from paying more. The ones crying are those that want to pay LESS

You cannot think of any ways in which minimum wages might stop people earning more?

freediver wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 8:55am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 6:39am: freediver wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 8:07pm: What part of more money and more time did you not understand? no one is stopping anyone from paying more. The ones crying are those that want to pay LESS You cannot think of any ways in which minimum wages might stop people earning more?

I can, attitude towards your job.

Leroy wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 8:58am:

freediver wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 8:55am: John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 6:39am: freediver wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 8:07pm: What part of more money and more time did you not understand? no one is stopping anyone from paying more. The ones crying are those that want to pay LESS You cannot think of any ways in which minimum wages might stop people earning more? I can, attitude towards your job.

I meant a bit more directly than that.

John Smith wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 6:36am:

Carl D wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 10:57am: I remember when most shops in the city closed at 12 noon Saturday and didn't open again until Monday morning. Closed until Tuesday morning if it was a long weekend with a Monday holiday. AND the BUSINESS OWNERS pushed for their trading hours to be expanded knowing penalty rates were a thing and now they're the ones crying penalty rates prevent them making a profit on those days. :D :D :D :D

That’s a interesting point!

Could the real issue here be management is simply hopeless and want to pay workers less to make up for their own lack of business skills?

freediver wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:00am:

Leroy wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 8:58am: freediver wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 8:55am: John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 6:39am: freediver wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 8:07pm: What part of more money and more time did you not understand? no one is stopping anyone from paying more. The ones crying are those that want to pay LESS You cannot think of any ways in which minimum wages might stop people earning more? I can, attitude towards your job. I meant a bit more directly than that.

If you wanted to work more hours but your employer wont give you more hours because they have to pay penalties rates for more hours so they don't allow you more hours.

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:35am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 6:36am: Carl D wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 10:57am: I remember when most shops in the city closed at 12 noon Saturday and didn't open again until Monday morning. Closed until Tuesday morning if it was a long weekend with a Monday holiday. AND the BUSINESS OWNERS pushed for their trading hours to be expanded knowing penalty rates were a thing and now they're the ones crying penalty rates prevent them making a profit on those days. :D :D :D :D That’s a interesting point! Could the real issue here be management is simply hopeless and want to pay workers less to make up for their own lack of business skills?

At the same time workers are simply hopeless at business and rely on business owners to employ them because they can't make money without relying on someone else to do all the hard work.

Leroy wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:38am:

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 9:35am: John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 6:36am: Carl D wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 10:57am: I remember when most shops in the city closed at 12 noon Saturday and didn't open again until Monday morning. Closed until Tuesday morning if it was a long weekend with a Monday holiday. AND the BUSINESS OWNERS pushed for their trading hours to be expanded knowing penalty rates were a thing and now they're the ones crying penalty rates prevent them making a profit on those days. :D :D :D :D That’s a interesting point! Could the real issue here be management is simply hopeless and want to pay workers less to make up for their own lack of business skills? At the same time workers are simply hopeless at business and rely on business owners to employ them because they can't make money without relying on someone else to do all the hard work.

In the majority of businesses the workers are responsible for virtually all the profit which is gained in spite of management not because of it. The most common result of management getting involved in the day to day activity in the business results in lost productivity. Management tend to get in the way of the people who know how to do the job. Management have a different function.

It isn't the workers who have a friday afternoon tee time booked each week or 3 hour lunch breaks.

Never seen a business that didn't hit peak productivity on days when the Manager is away.

freediver wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 8:55am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 6:39am: freediver wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 8:07pm: What part of more money and more time did you not understand? no one is stopping anyone from paying more. The ones crying are those that want to pay LESS You cannot think of any ways in which minimum wages might stop people earning more?

I'm sure you'll come up with something stupid

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:35am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 6:36am: Carl D wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 10:57am: I remember when most shops in the city closed at 12 noon Saturday and didn't open again until Monday morning. Closed until Tuesday morning if it was a long weekend with a Monday holiday. AND the BUSINESS OWNERS pushed for their trading hours to be expanded knowing penalty rates were a thing and now they're the ones crying penalty rates prevent them making a profit on those days. :D :D :D :D That’s a interesting point! Could the real issue here be management is simply hopeless and want to pay workers less to make up for their own lack of business skills?

a bit of that, a large part however is GREED

Leroy wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:38am:

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 9:35am: John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 6:36am: Carl D wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 10:57am: I remember when most shops in the city closed at 12 noon Saturday and didn't open again until Monday morning. Closed until Tuesday morning if it was a long weekend with a Monday holiday. AND the BUSINESS OWNERS pushed for their trading hours to be expanded knowing penalty rates were a thing and now they're the ones crying penalty rates prevent them making a profit on those days. :D :D :D :D That’s a interesting point! Could the real issue here be management is simply hopeless and want to pay workers less to make up for their own lack of business skills? At the same time workers are simply hopeless at business and rely on business owners to employ them because they can't make money without relying on someone else to do all the hard work.

Without employees to work for them, most businesses would go bust.

Is it just me?
Or is Smith just a Johnny come lately to this topic?

Keep proving why you are a moron ;D

Because I came last and you came first on the Moron podium 🏅?
Maybe I was running late on that one? Oh, my bad.😏

freediver wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 10:10am:

Gnads wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 9:04am: freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 11:52am: Leroy wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:56am: freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:48am: John Smith wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:38am: freediver wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 10:21am: "Spreading the costs" does not make sense. They are not a charity. They are not there out of some sense of duty to serve you on a public holiday. I am sure the owners would rather keep whatever profits they make on other days. This is not less silly than asking the employees to donate part of their salary to cover the losses incurred. so don't open. It's not that difficult. How would you feel if the government placed arbitrary restrictions on your business that prevented you from working? They have, I would have 250 people working for me but arbitrary restrictions on my business means it would not be profitable because I would have to pay them more than I would make. If I could pay $2 an hour I would make a killing. No you wouldn't. Who do you think would work for you for $2 per hour? This is the myth promoted by the unions - that they, rather than market forces, are the real drivers of salary. Quote: So they have no one to look after their best interests. Are you saying they are incapable of thinking for themselves? [quote]then they surely wouldn't be working as a shop assistant The thing about being a shop assistant is, the skills are easily transferable to a large number of alternative employers. It's not a myth - and it wasn't $2 per hour. It was $2 per day .... quoted by Gina Rinehart in 2012. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-05/rinehart-says-aussie-workers-overpaid-unproductive/4243866

And?

Are you going to take those African countries to court because you think they are underpaying their staff?

She speaks the truth. Though it is more about China at the moment. Lifting a billion Chinese people out of poverty has stagnated wages for the western middle class. And you cannot legislate against it. Why do you think we don't make cars here any more? But we can make a half decent latte.[/quote]

What a dopey statement ... especially for you.

Gina doesn't speak the truth.

She is wealthy by inheritance & has been a middle man for the Chinese in ventures in accessing property all over the country.

Are you hoping she & others will bring about a reduction in Australian wages & lifestyle to be on a level equaling 3rd world/developing countries?

Whilst she & others remain billionaires & wouldn't have a phukkin clue about doing it tough.

Jasin wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 5:35pm:

Cheap labour should get lower wages

You're cheap .... but you take what is won by others & don't contribute ...

What's that make you again?  ;D

freediver wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 7:36pm:

whiteknight wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 7:30pm: There most certainly should be a minimum wage.  Thank heavens for the good unions of Australia.   :)  Would you deny someone the right to choose for themself to work for slightly less at a job they preferred to do, or the only one they are able to get?

Freediver the shonky slave labour hire arsehole.

Why should bosses be in Unions & workers not?

Answer the question.

Might be down visiting a house-bound mate on NYD - three old bastards to the RSL(sold off) some restaurant for a coffee -I don't mind paying a bit extra as long as I get a decent coffee. Bit of time out for the old bastard.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 7:46pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 5:25pm: There should be no minimum wage.  There should be no payroll tax. We are importing cheap labor - what's the point if you have to pay them inflated wages? It makes no sense to do both. Why bring in hundreds of thousands of third worlders for jobs 'Australians wouldn't do", then pay them Australian wages? Because people who work in Australia get paid Australian wages. It has nothing to do with nationality, gender, or where you were born. When you work in Australia, you get paid according to Australian legislation. Why would anybody object to that?

Greedy bastards always do.

freediver wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 7:47pm:

whiteknight wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 7:46pm: I would prefer the person where ever they work, was paid no less than the minimum wage.   :( Do you understand that if you deny people the right to work, they get paid nothing? You make them unemployed. Now that you understand the consequences, would you like to have another go at answering? Would you deny someone the right to choose for themself to work for slightly less at a job they preferred to do, or the only one they are able to get? What makes you think the what you would prefer ought to over-ride what they prefer? Do you consider them to be incapable of thinking for themselves? After all, you do not know and do not care about their specific circumstances, but they do. They might even get paid less because of your actions, once you consider all the other costs you impose on them by denying them the right to choose for themselves.

All you're doing is advocating for someone to be a scab & to take less to get their job.

Oh & help the boss pay less to make more profit for greedy shareholders/investors like you.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 7:57pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 5:25pm: There should be no minimum wage.  There should be no payroll tax. We are importing cheap labor - what's the point if you have to pay them inflated wages? It makes no sense to do both. Why bring in hundreds of thousands of third worlders for jobs 'Australians wouldn't do", then pay them Australian wages? So, if they aren't paid Australian wages I assume you don't want them to pay high Australian rents. They shouldn't pay exorbitant Australian grocery prices. They don't need to obey road rules, or any other Australian laws. If they are exempt from Australian legislation regarding wages and working conditions, then they should be exempt from all Australian legislation, rules, codes, regulations, practices and customs - yeah?

Correct.

Leroy wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 8:39pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 7:47pm: whiteknight wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 7:46pm: I would prefer the person where ever they work, was paid no less than the minimum wage.   :( Do you understand that if you deny people the right to work, they get paid nothing? You make them unemployed. Now that you understand the consequences, would you like to have another go at answering? Would you deny someone the right to choose for themself to work for slightly less at a job they preferred to do, or the only one they are able to get? What makes you think the what you would prefer ought to over-ride what they prefer? Do you consider them to be incapable of thinking for themselves? After all, you do not know and do not care about their specific circumstances, but they do. They might even get paid less because of your actions, once you consider all the other costs you impose on them by denying them the right to choose for themselves. People have the right to work for whatever they want. If you want you can register as a small business and clean peoples houses for $2hr, the only thing you can't do is employ someone else to do the same. Anyone can work for a low income if they need to survive. For some its easier to lean on the government than putting in the effort to survive.

When you earn less than the dole what would be the point in that sort of stupidity?

freediver wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 8:55am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 6:39am: freediver wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 8:07pm: What part of more money and more time did you not understand? no one is stopping anyone from paying more. The ones crying are those that want to pay LESS You cannot think of any ways in which minimum wages might stop people earning more?

So you want people to have 2 maybe 3 jobs to survive ... like they have to do in the US?

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:35am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 6:36am: Carl D wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 10:57am: I remember when most shops in the city closed at 12 noon Saturday and didn't open again until Monday morning. Closed until Tuesday morning if it was a long weekend with a Monday holiday. AND the BUSINESS OWNERS pushed for their trading hours to be expanded knowing penalty rates were a thing and now they're the ones crying penalty rates prevent them making a profit on those days. :D :D :D :D That’s a interesting point! Could the real issue here be management is simply hopeless and want to pay workers less to make up for their own lack of business skills?

Fair chance ..... but Freediver supports this type of employer.

John Smith wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 6:36am:

Carl D wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 10:57am: I remember when most shops in the city closed at 12 noon Saturday and didn't open again until Monday morning. Closed until Tuesday morning if it was a long weekend with a Monday holiday. AND the BUSINESS OWNERS pushed for their trading hours to be expanded knowing penalty rates were a thing and now they're the ones crying penalty rates prevent them making a profit on those days. :D :D :D :D

100% correct observation/statement

Leroy wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:38am:

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 9:35am: John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 6:36am: Carl D wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 10:57am: I remember when most shops in the city closed at 12 noon Saturday and didn't open again until Monday morning. Closed until Tuesday morning if it was a long weekend with a Monday holiday. AND the BUSINESS OWNERS pushed for their trading hours to be expanded knowing penalty rates were a thing and now they're the ones crying penalty rates prevent them making a profit on those days. :D :D :D :D That’s a interesting point! Could the real issue here be management is simply hopeless and want to pay workers less to make up for their own lack of business skills? At the same time workers are simply hopeless at business and rely on business owners to employ them because they can't make money without relying on someone else to do all the hard work.

So what? That's how it's always been .... so are you denigrating these workers?

Jasin wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 4:40pm:

Is it just me? Or is Smith just a Johnny come lately to this topic?

It doesn't matter ... his input so far has been correct.

Maybe we should all work directly for the Union?
I'm sure they'll pay a motza.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 7:44pm:

Might be down visiting a house-bound mate on NYD - three old bastards to the RSL(sold off) some restaurant for a coffee -I don't mind paying a bit extra as long as I get a decent coffee. Bit of time out for the old bastard.

Last week had a choice of getting a coffee at one of two locations. My grandaughter insisted we go to one little restaurant and not the cafe next to the food court.

This cost me $36 for a half dozen chips and the worst coffee ever made by man or beast. Down stairs I would have got a decent coffee for about half the price.

freediver wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 8:55am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 6:39am: freediver wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 8:07pm: What part of more money and more time did you not understand? no one is stopping anyone from paying more. The ones crying are those that want to pay LESS You cannot think of any ways in which minimum wages might stop people earning more?

Well they do stop people from earning less.

Lower minimum wages put downward pressure on all wages.

The guy behind this story has at least two businesses, One is closed till the new year the other only opens Mon to Friday excluding PH's. He is not affected by penalty rates at all, he does not pay them. There are business models,locations and industries where working Public Holidays is difficult to justify. This comes down to management decision making based on things like customer demand and the choice of the business structure.

Examples are businesses in low PH demand locations.
High profile (exclusive) restaurants with high paid staff and a high number of staff. (almost the only genuine example and the structure is a management choice)
Businesses with no day to day demand. Factory that won't increase turn over on a PH. etc.

Jasin wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 8:10pm:

Maybe we should all work directly for the Union? I'm sure they'll pay a motza.

Most UNIONS push for a fair and reasonable wage. They understand that the company needs to be competitive and profitable to continue to pay wages. 

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:20pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 8:10pm: Maybe we should all work directly for the Union? I'm sure they'll pay a motza. Most UNIONS push for a fair and reasonable wage. They understand that the company needs to be competitive and profitable to continue to pay wages.

Unions can be infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated.

Leroy wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:47pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 9:20pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 8:10pm: Maybe we should all work directly for the Union? I'm sure they'll pay a motza. Most UNIONS push for a fair and reasonable wage. They understand that the company needs to be competitive and profitable to continue to pay wages.  Unions can be infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated.

Businesses can be run by criminal employers who do not pay correct rates and force unsafe working conditions.

Business can be infiltrated by groups due to their board membership, voting gets manipulated.


Can is a big word, or does it really mean much in this type of context.

Speculating on can - can put us into la la land.

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 10:20pm:

Leroy wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 9:47pm: Dnarever wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 9:20pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 8:10pm: Maybe we should all work directly for the Union? I'm sure they'll pay a motza. Most UNIONS push for a fair and reasonable wage. They understand that the company needs to be competitive and profitable to continue to pay wages.  Unions can be infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated. Businesses can be run by criminal employers who do not pay correct rates and force unsafe working conditions. Business can be infiltrated by groups due to their board membership, voting gets manipulated. Can is a big word, or does it really mean much in this type of context. Speculating on can - can put us into la la land.

My apologies I will fix it,


Unions are infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated.

Leroy wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 11:07pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 10:20pm: Leroy wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 9:47pm: Dnarever wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 9:20pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 8:10pm: Maybe we should all work directly for the Union? I'm sure they'll pay a motza. Most UNIONS push for a fair and reasonable wage. They understand that the company needs to be competitive and profitable to continue to pay wages.  Unions can be infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated. Businesses can be run by criminal employers who do not pay correct rates and force unsafe working conditions. Business can be infiltrated by groups due to their board membership, voting gets manipulated. Can is a big word, or does it really mean much in this type of context. Speculating on can - can put us into la la land. My apologies I will fix it, Unions are infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated.

Substitute making it a statement of fact in the business side examples and see if you think that makes it more accurate

Businesses are  run by criminal employers who do not pay correct rates and force unsafe working conditions.

I don't see an improvement in fact it seems to move further away from being true. I would say it is a bit rare on either side of the fence while there are clearly bad unions and also terrible employers. I don't think either are the majority.

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 11:26pm:

Leroy wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 11:07pm: Dnarever wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 10:20pm: Leroy wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 9:47pm: Dnarever wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 9:20pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 8:10pm: Maybe we should all work directly for the Union? I'm sure they'll pay a motza. Most UNIONS push for a fair and reasonable wage. They understand that the company needs to be competitive and profitable to continue to pay wages.  Unions can be infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated. Businesses can be run by criminal employers who do not pay correct rates and force unsafe working conditions. Business can be infiltrated by groups due to their board membership, voting gets manipulated. Can is a big word, or does it really mean much in this type of context. Speculating on can - can put us into la la land. My apologies I will fix it, Unions are infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated. Substitute making it a statement of fact in the business side examples and see if you think that makes it more accurate Businesses are  run by criminal employers who do not pay correct rates and force unsafe working conditions. I don't see an improvement in fact it seems to move further away from being true. I would say it is a bit rare on either side of the fence while there are clearly bad unions and also terrible employers. I don't think either are the majority.

Right, I'll have another go.


Unions probably are infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated.

People have a right to belong to a union.  Who could forget the Howard government and their work choices?.  ( No choices )   :(       

Unions are great and needed in the USA where wages are very low for workers.

Here in Australia Unions are destructive and stop business growth.
Australian Unionism is evil and exploitive.

Bus drivers go on strike at peak periods for pay rise. 3 months later, consumers pay for it with fare increase.

In Japan, when workers go on strike, they let consumers travel for free.

I like the movie Shackleton. He puts the two Unionists in their place and back to work.

Jasin wrote on Dec 31^st, 2024 at 6:26am:

Unions are great and needed in the USA where wages are very low for workers. Here in Australia Unions are destructive and stop business growth. Australian Unionism is evil and exploitive. Bus drivers go on strike at peak periods for pay rise. 3 months later, consumers pay for it with fare increase. In Japan, when workers go on strike, they let consumers travel for free. I like the movie Shackleton. He puts the two Unionists in their place and back to work.

Good post Jason

The funny thing is that the Union's supported Trump
They now see the  Left as the party Propped up bye big corporations

None bigger than Amazon
Bozos  Purchased the Washington Post to support the democrats
Because they were helping him keep the unions out of Amazon
The biggest employer in the United States

aquascoot wrote on Dec 31^st, 2024 at 7:12am:

Jasin wrote on Dec 31st, 2024 at 6:26am: Unions are great and needed in the USA where wages are very low for workers. Here in Australia Unions are destructive and stop business growth. Australian Unionism is evil and exploitive. Bus drivers go on strike at peak periods for pay rise. 3 months later, consumers pay for it with fare increase. In Japan, when workers go on strike, they let consumers travel for free. I like the movie Shackleton. He puts the two Unionists in their place and back to work. Good post Jason The funny thing is that the Union's supported Trump They now see the  Left as the party Propped up bye big corporations None bigger than Amazon Bozos  Purchased the Washington Post to support the democrats Because they were helping him keep the unions out of Amazon The biggest employer in the United States

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez told Amazon’s first unionized workers in New York on Sunday that their victory was “the first domino to fall” in what she expected to be a wave of similar votes for representation across the country.

The leftwing Democrat joined Vermont senator Bernie Sanders on stage in Staten Island to celebrate the historic achievement and to call for workers in more Amazon facilities in the US to follow their example.

“What happened out here … what you guys did in Staten Island was just the beginning. It was the first domino to fall,” she said, noting that workers at a second Amazon sorting facility in the New York borough were voting on Monday.

“We have another election tomorrow, and we’re going to support them in that. And the day after that, and the day after that, all the way. But what we need Amazon to do first and foremost is to recognize the union that won their election.”

Jasin wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 8:10pm:

Maybe we should all work directly for the Union? I'm sure they'll pay a motza.

Another stupid statement.

Leroy wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:47pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 9:20pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 8:10pm: Maybe we should all work directly for the Union? I'm sure they'll pay a motza. Most UNIONS push for a fair and reasonable wage. They understand that the company needs to be competitive and profitable to continue to pay wages.  Unions can be infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated.

Bollocks - What sort of groups?

The membership is the "Union".

Jasin wrote on Dec 31^st, 2024 at 6:26am:

Unions are great and needed in the USA where wages are very low for workers. Here in Australia Unions are destructive and stop business growth. Australian Unionism is evil and exploitive. Bus drivers go on strike at peak periods for pay rise. 3 months later, consumers pay for it with fare increase. In Japan, when workers go on strike, they let consumers travel for free. I like the movie Shackleton. He puts the two Unionists in their place and back to work.

Complete bollocks.

Gnads wrote on Dec 31^st, 2024 at 9:34am:

Leroy wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 9:47pm: Dnarever wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 9:20pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 8:10pm: Maybe we should all work directly for the Union? I'm sure they'll pay a motza. Most UNIONS push for a fair and reasonable wage. They understand that the company needs to be competitive and profitable to continue to pay wages.  Unions can be infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated. Bollocks - What sort of groups? The membership is the "Union".

Quote:

A report into the alleged infiltration of the CFMEU by bikie gangs has found the construction union's efforts to rid itself of criminal elements were "inadequate". The union's construction arm was placed into administration in August following allegations outlaw motorcycle gangs had infiltrated its branches, with bikies allegedly appointed as delegates on major projects, amid wider claims of bullying, intimidation and corrupt conduct. A report commissioned by CFMEU leadership and carried out by respected barrister Geoffrey Watson SC has found bikies were still influential within the union and that EBA negotiations had become "vulnerable to corruption".

Thats all I'm going to say.

There is no such thing as "The Union".

There are many Unions - each Union has a name

and they represent people in varying trades and in various specific occupations ...

then there are Unions that represent multiple work disciplines e.g. the Australian Workers Union. AWU.

The generalisation by the use of the term "the Union" .. and tarring them all with the same brush based on the actions of militant Unions like the CMFEU is the refuge of the lazy & deceitful.

Leroy wrote on Dec 31^st, 2024 at 9:44am:

Gnads wrote on Dec 31st, 2024 at 9:34am: Leroy wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 9:47pm: Dnarever wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 9:20pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 8:10pm: Maybe we should all work directly for the Union? I'm sure they'll pay a motza. Most UNIONS push for a fair and reasonable wage. They understand that the company needs to be competitive and profitable to continue to pay wages.  Unions can be infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated. Bollocks - What sort of groups? The membership is the "Union". Quote: A report into the alleged infiltration of the CFMEU by bikie gangs has found the construction union's efforts to rid itself of criminal elements were "inadequate". The union's construction arm was placed into administration in August following allegations outlaw motorcycle gangs had infiltrated its branches, with bikies allegedly appointed as delegates on major projects, amid wider claims of bullying, intimidation and corrupt conduct. A report commissioned by CFMEU leadership and carried out by respected barrister Geoffrey Watson SC has found bikies were still influential within the union and that EBA negotiations had become "vulnerable to corruption". Thats all I'm going to say.

You shouldn't have even said that ....it's absolute bollocks that you should go straight for the CFMEU - the most militant & a huge exception to the rule in which most Unions operate.

It's all Union bashers can do.

Gnads wrote on Dec 31^st, 2024 at 9:45am:

There is no such thing as "The Union". There are many Unions - each Union has a name and they represent people in varying trades and in various specific occupations ... then there are Unions that represent multiple work disciplines e.g. the Australian Workers Union. AWU. The generalisation by the use of the term "the Union" .. and tarring them all with the same brush based on the actions of militant Unions like the CMFEU is the refuge of the lazy & deceitful.

Thats your take, mine would be unions have a place but just like any organization they are going to become political and politics will overtake commonsense every time. I was a member of the FEDFA in the 80's and has dealings with the ETU, AWU.
ETU had the power and could stop any site from working. If we wanted anything then first we had to get the ETU to agree. This usually gave the ETU an opening to include what they wanted, companies knew that when bargaining it was wise to stack it in the ETU's favor to get a quicker result. I've been on strike to get what we wanted and not what we went on strike for. We could shut down the place for weeks and our members would be OK with that (we would get several months notice to save up), time for some fishing or camping so we generally did very well when bargaining. The AWU had too many members who lived week to week and could not afford to go on strike so they had far less bargaining power.

The Union is a criminal organisation that uses stand over tactics and bullying of non unionist workers.

Jasin wrote on Dec 31^st, 2024 at 11:47am:

The Union is a criminal organisation that uses stand over tactics and bullying of non unionist workers.

There is no such entity as "The Union".

Are you becoming as big a dickhead as Phil?  ;D

You only have one Flag to represent Unionism in Australia, hence why all unions belong to THE UNION.

Nice of the Union to support the American poultry company Aviagen's occupation of Australia towards conquest, which refused using the Contract workers of the Australian Chicken Sexers Association by bringing in barefoot working South Koreans who were of poorer quality via backpacker visas for 6 months. The Union did this, because the 'imported' Asian workers became Union members, besides working for cheap American wages. The American Aviagen would hire only one local Australian as traineeship, but turf them after 6 months for another.

So the Union was with the American company, which would not pay Australian workers from the Association.

I also got to see Emails of the American company's aim to destroy the other Australian Poultry Companies in their conquest for 100% of the global market, from their current 90%. They had already claimed Inghams. Thankfully my talks with the likes of Biata and Steggles proved fruitful and the Australian Poultry Industry has put up a gaining fight against the American Company. Lucky we didn't sell Graincorp to America.
When I approached the (poultry) Union as if I was a pro- Unionist. They were glad to brag about how good it is for Unionism, to get rid of the Australian Contractors, as they are not Union members. I mentioned that the South Korean Chicken Sexers were walking barefoot in the workplace, he just huffed it as unimportant and a cultural thing. As long as they were forced to join the Union to get the work here for 6 months as fake backpackers, all was good. The look on his face, when he pushed the forms to me to join the Union was priceless! when I told him on my way out. "Sorry, but I'm a Confederate".

The Yankee Unionism here in Australia is not Australian.

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:16pm:

The guy behind this story has at least two businesses, One is closed till the new year the other only opens Mon to Friday excluding PH's. He is not affected by penalty rates at all, he does not pay them. .

I'll bet he's in some employer group, or chamber of commerce group, who decided it was a good time to have another cry about penalty rates

Gnads wrote on Dec 31^st, 2024 at 9:47am:

Leroy wrote on Dec 31st, 2024 at 9:44am: Gnads wrote on Dec 31st, 2024 at 9:34am: Leroy wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 9:47pm: Dnarever wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 9:20pm: Jasin wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 8:10pm: Maybe we should all work directly for the Union? I'm sure they'll pay a motza. Most UNIONS push for a fair and reasonable wage. They understand that the company needs to be competitive and profitable to continue to pay wages.  Unions can be infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated. Bollocks - What sort of groups? The membership is the "Union". Quote: A report into the alleged infiltration of the CFMEU by bikie gangs has found the construction union's efforts to rid itself of criminal elements were "inadequate". The union's construction arm was placed into administration in August following allegations outlaw motorcycle gangs had infiltrated its branches, with bikies allegedly appointed as delegates on major projects, amid wider claims of bullying, intimidation and corrupt conduct. A report commissioned by CFMEU leadership and carried out by respected barrister Geoffrey Watson SC has found bikies were still influential within the union and that EBA negotiations had become "vulnerable to corruption". Thats all I'm going to say. You shouldn't have even said that ....it's absolute bollocks that you should go straight for the CFMEU - the most militant & a huge exception to the rule in which most Unions operate. It's all Union bashers can do.

Building industry management is also historically a great place to find criminality. Amazing how the most extreme Unions are all in industries where there is a history of employees dying due to business profit driven safety policies.

Jasin wrote on Dec 31^st, 2024 at 12:25pm:

You only have one Flag to represent Unionism in Australia, hence why all unions belong to THE UNION. Nice of the Union to support the American poultry company Aviagen's occupation of Australia towards conquest, which refused using the Contract workers of the Australian Chicken Sexers Association by bringing in barefoot working South Koreans who were of poorer quality via backpacker visas for 6 months. The Union did this, because the 'imported' Asian workers became Union members, besides working for cheap American wages. The American Aviagen would hire only one local Australian as traineeship, but turf them after 6 months for another. So the Union was with the American company, which would not pay Australian workers from the Association. I also got to see Emails of the American company's aim to destroy the other Australian Poultry Companies in their conquest for 100% of the global market, from their current 90%. They had already claimed Inghams. Thankfully my talks with the likes of Biata and Steggles proved fruitful and the Australian Poultry Industry has put up a gaining fight against the American Company. Lucky we didn't sell Graincorp to America. When I approached the (poultry) Union as if I was a pro- Unionist. They were glad to brag about how good it is for Unionism, to get rid of the Australian Contractors, as they are not Union members. I mentioned that the South Korean Chicken Sexers were walking barefoot in the workplace, he just huffed it as unimportant and a cultural thing. As long as they were forced to join the Union to get the work here for 6 months as fake backpackers, all was good. The look on his face, when he pushed the forms to me to join the Union was priceless! when I told him on my way out. "Sorry, but I'm a Confederate". The Yankee Unionism here in Australia is not Australian.

I wanna know what drugs this guy is on.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 31^st, 2024 at 9:00pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 31st, 2024 at 12:25pm: You only have one Flag to represent Unionism in Australia, hence why all unions belong to THE UNION. Nice of the Union to support the American poultry company Aviagen's occupation of Australia towards conquest, which refused using the Contract workers of the Australian Chicken Sexers Association by bringing in barefoot working South Koreans who were of poorer quality via backpacker visas for 6 months. The Union did this, because the 'imported' Asian workers became Union members, besides working for cheap American wages. The American Aviagen would hire only one local Australian as traineeship, but turf them after 6 months for another. So the Union was with the American company, which would not pay Australian workers from the Association. I also got to see Emails of the American company's aim to destroy the other Australian Poultry Companies in their conquest for 100% of the global market, from their current 90%. They had already claimed Inghams. Thankfully my talks with the likes of Biata and Steggles proved fruitful and the Australian Poultry Industry has put up a gaining fight against the American Company. Lucky we didn't sell Graincorp to America. When I approached the (poultry) Union as if I was a pro- Unionist. They were glad to brag about how good it is for Unionism, to get rid of the Australian Contractors, as they are not Union members. I mentioned that the South Korean Chicken Sexers were walking barefoot in the workplace, he just huffed it as unimportant and a cultural thing. As long as they were forced to join the Union to get the work here for 6 months as fake backpackers, all was good. The look on his face, when he pushed the forms to me to join the Union was priceless! when I told him on my way out. "Sorry, but I'm a Confederate". The Yankee Unionism here in Australia is not Australian. I wanna know what drugs this guy is on.

Just his usual scab driven union bashing drivel.

Funny that he thinks the Eureka Flag has anything to do with the USA.

The Union movement gave him all the working conditions & above award wages that he got on the job..... that is when he had a job.

Doesn't seem to realise either that the Union movement also had a hand in the minimum living rates that people receive when they are on social security.

Ungrateful leaner.

“ Hospitality is a high risk industry even in boom times unfortunately. It’s hard for hospitality businesses to pass on price rises compared to those in most other sectors. Consumers can easily ‘trade down’ to a cheaper venue or just eat at home,” he said.”

“ news.com

That’s a inescapable fact.
You have to wonder just how many coffee shops or restaurants one town needs?

They either need to be anchored to another venue or be exceptional to survive.

And that’s in the good times!

Daves2017 wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2025 at 12:02pm:

“ Hospitality is a high risk industry even in boom times unfortunately. It’s hard for hospitality businesses to pass on price rises compared to those in most other sectors. Consumers can easily ‘trade down’ to a cheaper venue or just eat at home,” he said.” “ news.com That’s a inescapable fact. You have to wonder just how many coffee shops or restaurants one town needs? They either need to be anchored to another venue or be exceptional to survive. And that’s in the good times!

Not sure about this economic cycle, but I recall in one downturn decades ago, cafes were surprisingly booming. The reason, those who usually went out to restaurants would give up the restaurant meal, and substitute it for a cup of coffee and a muffin or something. That way they still feel like they're treating themselves with only a quarter of the expense.

I suspect that may no longer be the case as prices in many cafe's these days are as high, if not more, than in many restaurants ...

John Smith wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 3:47pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 8:55am: John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 6:39am: freediver wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 8:07pm: What part of more money and more time did you not understand? no one is stopping anyone from paying more. The ones crying are those that want to pay LESS You cannot think of any ways in which minimum wages might stop people earning more? I'm sure you'll come up with something stupid

Travel expenses are a good example. Should a person be allowed to accept a job that pays just below minimum wages, if they have zero travel costs, when the alternative is a long, expensive commute for a minimum wage job?

Or what if the alternative is being on the dole because the unions have succeeded in denying them the right to work?

These are the sorts of real life problems that the unions don't care about when they get on their high horse and deny people the right to work.

Another is even simpler - should people be allowed to accept the job that they actually want to do, rather than only the jobs that some imbecile union thug thinks they should?


Gnads wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 7:44pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 7:36pm: whiteknight wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 7:30pm: There most certainly should be a minimum wage.  Thank heavens for the good unions of Australia.   :)  Would you deny someone the right to choose for themself to work for slightly less at a job they preferred to do, or the only one they are able to get? Freediver the shonky slave labour hire arsehole. Why should bosses be in Unions & workers not? Answer the question.

That's a pretty stupid question Gnads.


Gnads wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 7:47pm:

All you're doing is advocating for someone to be a scab & to take less to get their job.

This is a tired old mantra that the unions get their mindless cheerleaders to chant.

I am advocating that people be allowed to think for themselves, rather than have the unions do it for them. Because the unions ultimately serve themselves.


Gnads wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 7:50pm:

Leroy wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 8:39pm: freediver wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 7:47pm: whiteknight wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 7:46pm: I would prefer the person where ever they work, was paid no less than the minimum wage.   :( Do you understand that if you deny people the right to work, they get paid nothing? You make them unemployed. Now that you understand the consequences, would you like to have another go at answering? Would you deny someone the right to choose for themself to work for slightly less at a job they preferred to do, or the only one they are able to get? What makes you think the what you would prefer ought to over-ride what they prefer? Do you consider them to be incapable of thinking for themselves? After all, you do not know and do not care about their specific circumstances, but they do. They might even get paid less because of your actions, once you consider all the other costs you impose on them by denying them the right to choose for themselves. People have the right to work for whatever they want. If you want you can register as a small business and clean peoples houses for $2hr, the only thing you can't do is employ someone else to do the same. Anyone can work for a low income if they need to survive. For some its easier to lean on the government than putting in the effort to survive. When you earn less than the dole what would be the point in that sort of stupidity?

Who said anything about working for less than the dole Gnads?


Gnads wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 7:53pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 8:55am: John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 6:39am: freediver wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 8:07pm: What part of more money and more time did you not understand? no one is stopping anyone from paying more. The ones crying are those that want to pay LESS You cannot think of any ways in which minimum wages might stop people earning more? So you want people to have 2 maybe 3 jobs to survive ... like they have to do in the US?

Again, not what I am saying Gnads.


Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:04pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 8:55am: John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 6:39am: freediver wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 8:07pm: What part of more money and more time did you not understand? no one is stopping anyone from paying more. The ones crying are those that want to pay LESS You cannot think of any ways in which minimum wages might stop people earning more? Well they do stop people from earning less. Lower minimum wages put downward pressure on all wages.

No they don't. More idiotic union mantras for the gullible.

freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2025 at 12:37pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 3:47pm: freediver wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 8:55am: John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 6:39am: freediver wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 8:07pm: What part of more money and more time did you not understand? no one is stopping anyone from paying more. The ones crying are those that want to pay LESS You cannot think of any ways in which minimum wages might stop people earning more? I'm sure you'll come up with something stupid Travel expenses are a good example. Should a person be allowed to accept a job that pays just below minimum wages, if they have zero travel costs, when the alternative is a long, expensive commute for a minimum wage job? These are the sorts of real life problems that the unions don't care about when they get on their high horse and deny people the right to work. Another is even simpler - should people be allowed to accept the job that they actually want to do? Gnads wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 7:44pm: freediver wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 7:36pm: whiteknight wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 7:30pm: There most certainly should be a minimum wage.  Thank heavens for the good unions of Australia.   :)  Would you deny someone the right to choose for themself to work for slightly less at a job they preferred to do, or the only one they are able to get? Freediver the shonky slave labour hire arsehole. Why should bosses be in Unions & workers not? Answer the question. That's a pretty stupid question Gnads. Gnads wrote on Dec 30th, 2024 at 7:47pm: All you're doing is advocating for someone to be a scab & to take less to get their job. This is a tired old mantra that the unions get their mindless cheerleaders to chant. I am advocating that people be allowed to think for themselves, rather than have the unions do it for them.

Pensioners would be willing to work for less to do jobs that are too expensive for minimum wages. People with disabilities may find a low paying job that suits them.

freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2025 at 12:37pm:

Travel expenses are a good example.

no they are not.

And what of the person that has to travel and under your rules, accept a lower wage?

if you had your way FD, employees would be paying their bosses for the privilege of working

Quote:

if you had your way FD, employees would be paying their bosses for the privilege of working

Mindless union propaganda.

freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2025 at 1:43pm:

Quote: if you had your way FD, employees would be paying their bosses for the privilege of working Mindless union propaganda.

I've never belonged to a union dumbarse :D

John Smith wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2025 at 1:49pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 2nd, 2025 at 1:43pm: Quote: if you had your way FD, employees would be paying their bosses for the privilege of working Mindless union propaganda. I've never belonged to a union dumbarse :D

I never claimed you did. You still mindlessly parrot their propaganda.

freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2025 at 1:49pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 2nd, 2025 at 1:49pm: freediver wrote on Jan 2nd, 2025 at 1:43pm: Quote: if you had your way FD, employees would be paying their bosses for the privilege of working Mindless union propaganda. I've never belonged to a union dumbarse :D I never claimed you did. You still mindlessly parrot their propaganda.

So you actually believe the unions said you would have employees pay employers? ;D ;D ;D