Fact check: Trump’s barrage of lies about Zelensky and Ukraine

In remarks to reporters on Tuesday and in a social media post on Wednesday, Trump made numerous false claims about Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and the Russian war on Ukraine – some of which echoed inaccurate talking points from Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Here is a fact check of some of his assertions.

Who started the war

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Trump dismissed Ukraine’s complaints about its exclusion from US-Russia talks on ending the war – and falsely said of Ukraine: “You should’ve never started it. You could’ve made a deal.”

Ukraine did not start the war. Russia started the war by invading Ukraine in 2022. Trump’s own former vice president, Mike Pence, and several Republican lawmakers have noted this obvious fact in the wake of Trump’s lie.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 10:21am:

Fact check: Trump’s barrage of lies about Zelensky and Ukraine In remarks to reporters on Tuesday and in a social media post on Wednesday, Trump made numerous false claims about Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and the Russian war on Ukraine – some of which echoed inaccurate talking points from Russian President Vladimir Putin. Here is a fact check of some of his assertions. Who started the war Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Trump dismissed Ukraine’s complaints about its exclusion from US-Russia talks on ending the war – and falsely said of Ukraine: “You should’ve never started it. You could’ve made a deal.” Ukraine did not start the war. Russia started the war by invading Ukraine in 2022. Trump’s own former vice president, Mike Pence, and several Republican lawmakers have noted this obvious fact in the wake of Trump’s lie.

Zelensky had the opportunity to make a deal with Putin, if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war. NATO and Europe insistence that Ukraine resist Putin led them down the path of war.

Its not my opinion or apportioning blame but just a fact.


Quote:

Russia has massed more than 100,000 troops around Ukraine’s borders and is campaigning for security guarantees from the West including a guarantee that Kyiv will be prevented from ever joining NATO’s ranks, despite Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy pushing for it to do so. “We need to resolve this question now … [and] we hope very much our concern will be heard by our partners and taken seriously,” Putin told reporters in Moscow https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/15/putin-ukraine-nato-membership-question-must-be-resolved-now

.

Zelensky’s approval rating

In the same Tuesday remarks, Trump called for a new Ukrainian election – last year’s previously scheduled presidential election was called off because the country is under martial law – and falsely claimed Zelensky is “down at 4% percent approval rating.”

That 4% figure is not even close to accurate.

The latest survey from a leading Ukrainian pollster, conducted earlier this month, found that 57% of Ukrainians said they trusted Zelensky. That was up from 52% in December – and 52% was Zelensky’s lowest wartime figure in this series of trust surveys. In addition, an approval survey conducted from late November to early January found 63% of Ukrainians either approved fully or tended to approve of Zelensky’s actions as president.

I know, Greggery, but you need to take different methodologies into consideration.


Quote:

In the Wednesday social media post, Trump falsely claimed that Zelensky “talked the United States of America into spending $350 Billion Dollars” to “go into” an unwinnable war. According to the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, a German think tank that closely tracks wartime aid to Ukraine, the US had committed a total of about $124 billion in military, financial and humanitarian aid to Ukraine between late January 2022, just before the Russian invasion, and the end of December 2024; the think tank found the US had actually allocated about $119 billion. It’s possible to arrive at different totals using different counting methodologies,

It depends how you do your sums, you see.

Year 9 maths, innit.

Zelensky is gone, he is a war monger and has no interest in finding a peaceful solution and stopping the killing.

Time will tell where he takes Ukraine.

US wartime aid to Ukraine

In the Wednesday social media post, Trump falsely claimed that Zelensky “talked the United States of America into spending $350 Billion Dollars” to “go into” an unwinnable war.

The $350 billion figure, too, is far from reality.

According to the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, a German think tank that closely tracks wartime aid to Ukraine, the US had committed a total of about $124 billion in military, financial and humanitarian aid to Ukraine between late January 2022, just before the Russian invasion, and the end of December 2024; the think tank found the US had actually allocated about $119 billion.

It’s possible to arrive at different totals using different counting methodologies, but there is no apparent basis for Trump’s “$350 billion” figure. The US government inspector general overseeing the Ukraine response has said on its website that “as of September 30, 2024, the U.S. Ukraine response funding totals nearly $183 billion, with $130.1 billion obligated and $86.7 billion disbursed” – and that includes funding spent in the US or sent to countries other than Ukraine.

Leroy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 10:25am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:21am: Fact check: Trump’s barrage of lies about Zelensky and Ukraine In remarks to reporters on Tuesday and in a social media post on Wednesday, Trump made numerous false claims about Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and the Russian war on Ukraine – some of which echoed inaccurate talking points from Russian President Vladimir Putin. Here is a fact check of some of his assertions. Who started the war Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Trump dismissed Ukraine’s complaints about its exclusion from US-Russia talks on ending the war – and falsely said of Ukraine: “You should’ve never started it. You could’ve made a deal.” Ukraine did not start the war. Russia started the war by invading Ukraine in 2022. Trump’s own former vice president, Mike Pence, and several Republican lawmakers have noted this obvious fact in the wake of Trump’s lie. Zelensky had the opportunity to make a deal with Putin, if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war. NATO and Europe insistence that Ukraine resist Putin led them down the path of war. Its not my opinion or apportioning blame but just a fact. Quote: Russia has massed more than 100,000 troops around Ukraine’s borders and is campaigning for security guarantees from the West including a guarantee that Kyiv will be prevented from ever joining NATO’s ranks, despite Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy pushing for it to do so. “We need to resolve this question now … [and] we hope very much our concern will be heard by our partners and taken seriously,” Putin told reporters in Moscow https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/15/putin-ukraine-nato-membership-question-must-be-resolved-now .

Why doesn't Russia want Ukraine to join NATO?

KangAnon wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 10:51am:

Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:25am: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:21am: Fact check: Trump’s barrage of lies about Zelensky and Ukraine In remarks to reporters on Tuesday and in a social media post on Wednesday, Trump made numerous false claims about Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and the Russian war on Ukraine – some of which echoed inaccurate talking points from Russian President Vladimir Putin. Here is a fact check of some of his assertions. Who started the war Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Trump dismissed Ukraine’s complaints about its exclusion from US-Russia talks on ending the war – and falsely said of Ukraine: “You should’ve never started it. You could’ve made a deal.” Ukraine did not start the war. Russia started the war by invading Ukraine in 2022. Trump’s own former vice president, Mike Pence, and several Republican lawmakers have noted this obvious fact in the wake of Trump’s lie. Zelensky had the opportunity to make a deal with Putin, if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war. NATO and Europe insistence that Ukraine resist Putin led them down the path of war. Its not my opinion or apportioning blame but just a fact. Quote: Russia has massed more than 100,000 troops around Ukraine’s borders and is campaigning for security guarantees from the West including a guarantee that Kyiv will be prevented from ever joining NATO’s ranks, despite Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy pushing for it to do so. “We need to resolve this question now … [and] we hope very much our concern will be heard by our partners and taken seriously,” Putin told reporters in Moscow https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/15/putin-ukraine-nato-membership-question-must-be-resolved-now . Why doesn't Russia want Ukraine to join NATO?

Probably the same reason America threatened to go to war with Russia if they put missiles in Cuba.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 10:27am:

Zelensky’s approval rating In the same Tuesday remarks, Trump called for a new Ukrainian election – last year’s previously scheduled presidential election was called off because the country is under martial law – and falsely claimed Zelensky is “down at 4% percent approval rating.” That 4% figure is not even close to accurate. The latest survey from a leading Ukrainian pollster, conducted earlier this month, found that 57% of Ukrainians said they trusted Zelensky. That was up from 52% in December – and 52% was Zelensky’s lowest wartime figure in this series of trust surveys. In addition, an approval survey conducted from late November to early January found 63% of Ukrainians either approved fully or tended to approve of Zelensky’s actions as president.

The big fella's right, Greggery. He's always stood for free and fair elections, you know.

All Zalensky needs to do is change the Constitution to allow an election during wartime. Easy-peasy, no?

If he needs any help, he can just ask Vlad.

DEEP STATE !!!

Leroy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 10:44am:

Zelensky is gone, he is a war monger and has no interest in finding a peaceful solution and stopping the killing. Time will tell where he takes Ukraine.

I know, right? Apparently he keeps a book of Hitler's speeches by his bed.

DRAIN THE SWAMP !!!

US aid vs. European aid

In both the Tuesday remarks and the Wednesday social media post, Trump returned to his familiar but false claim about a supposedly massive disparity between the amount of Ukraine aid provided by the US and by Europe.

He said Tuesday: “I think Europe has given $100 billion and we’ve given, let’s say, $300-plus (billion).” He wrote Wednesday: “The United States has spent $200 Billion Dollars more than Europe.”

Neither of those statements are accurate.

In fact, according to the Kiel Institute’s data, Europe – the European Union plus individual European countries – had collectively committed far more total wartime military, financial and humanitarian aid to Ukraine through December (about $258 billion) than the US committed (about $124 billion). Europe had also allocated more military, financial and humanitarian aid (about $138 billion) than the US allocated (about $119 billion).

The US did have a slim lead in one particular category, military aid allocated, providing about $67 billion to about $65 billion for Europe. But even that was nowhere close to the giant gulf Trump described.

I suppose a time will come when we all just shrug at the jaw-droppingly inane crap that Trump spews.  :(

Leroy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 10:54am:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:51am: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:25am: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:21am: Fact check: Trump’s barrage of lies about Zelensky and Ukraine In remarks to reporters on Tuesday and in a social media post on Wednesday, Trump made numerous false claims about Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and the Russian war on Ukraine – some of which echoed inaccurate talking points from Russian President Vladimir Putin. Here is a fact check of some of his assertions. Who started the war Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Trump dismissed Ukraine’s complaints about its exclusion from US-Russia talks on ending the war – and falsely said of Ukraine: “You should’ve never started it. You could’ve made a deal.” Ukraine did not start the war. Russia started the war by invading Ukraine in 2022. Trump’s own former vice president, Mike Pence, and several Republican lawmakers have noted this obvious fact in the wake of Trump’s lie. Zelensky had the opportunity to make a deal with Putin, if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war. NATO and Europe insistence that Ukraine resist Putin led them down the path of war. Its not my opinion or apportioning blame but just a fact. Quote: Russia has massed more than 100,000 troops around Ukraine’s borders and is campaigning for security guarantees from the West including a guarantee that Kyiv will be prevented from ever joining NATO’s ranks, despite Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy pushing for it to do so. “We need to resolve this question now … [and] we hope very much our concern will be heard by our partners and taken seriously,” Putin told reporters in Moscow https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/15/putin-ukraine-nato-membership-question-must-be-resolved-now . Why doesn't Russia want Ukraine to join NATO? Probably the same reason America threatened to go to war with Russia if they put missiles in Cuba.

Actually, it's a different reason, dear. Vlad doesn't want Ukraine to join NATO because he doesn't want to invade NATO.

You can see why, no? I mean, next time he meddled in a Ukrainian election or seized more Ukrainian territory or bombed another Ukrainian hospital or school, there would be NATO, saying hi there, Vlad.

Look, we'll probably see the US pull out of NATO over the next four years. Resistance to Ukrainian membership would then come down to Hungary and Turkey.

Those two countries have DL's favourite bosses after Vlad and Kim: Viktor Orban and Recep Erdogan. During his first term, Erdogan had DL on speed dial, so do you know?

While DL froths away over invading friends like Canada, his best buddies are the cunts. The post-war era of peace and prosperity is over. Imagine, the most peaceful period in Western history - gone. See how easy it was to do: a few deals here, a couple of threats there and a barrage of lies the likes of which have never been seen before - total fake news domination.

VENGEANCE !!! DISRUPTION !!! MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION !!!

We will make America great again, no?

KangAnon wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 10:51am:

Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:25am: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:21am: Fact check: Trump’s barrage of lies about Zelensky and Ukraine In remarks to reporters on Tuesday and in a social media post on Wednesday, Trump made numerous false claims about Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and the Russian war on Ukraine – some of which echoed inaccurate talking points from Russian President Vladimir Putin. Here is a fact check of some of his assertions. Who started the war Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Trump dismissed Ukraine’s complaints about its exclusion from US-Russia talks on ending the war – and falsely said of Ukraine: “You should’ve never started it. You could’ve made a deal.” Ukraine did not start the war. Russia started the war by invading Ukraine in 2022. Trump’s own former vice president, Mike Pence, and several Republican lawmakers have noted this obvious fact in the wake of Trump’s lie. Zelensky had the opportunity to make a deal with Putin, if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war. NATO and Europe insistence that Ukraine resist Putin led them down the path of war. Its not my opinion or apportioning blame but just a fact. Quote: Russia has massed more than 100,000 troops around Ukraine’s borders and is campaigning for security guarantees from the West including a guarantee that Kyiv will be prevented from ever joining NATO’s ranks, despite Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy pushing for it to do so. “We need to resolve this question now … [and] we hope very much our concern will be heard by our partners and taken seriously,” Putin told reporters in Moscow https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/15/putin-ukraine-nato-membership-question-must-be-resolved-now . Why doesn't Russia want Ukraine to join NATO?

Here's the most important point that many are missing about NATO. The organisation is purely defensive in nature. It is not offensive, and says so in its charter. Ukraine joining NATO is in no way a threat to Putin. It only becomes a threat if Putin takes action against Ukraine, which he has done.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 11:23am:

US aid vs. European aid In both the Tuesday remarks and the Wednesday social media post, Trump returned to his familiar but false claim about a supposedly massive disparity between the amount of Ukraine aid provided by the US and by Europe. He said Tuesday: “I think Europe has given $100 billion and we’ve given, let’s say, $300-plus (billion).” He wrote Wednesday: “The United States has spent $200 Billion Dollars more than Europe.” Neither of those statements are accurate. In fact, according to the Kiel Institute’s data, Europe – the European Union plus individual European countries – had collectively committed far more total wartime military, financial and humanitarian aid to Ukraine through December (about $258 billion) than the US committed (about $124 billion). Europe had also allocated more military, financial and humanitarian aid (about $138 billion) than the US allocated (about $119 billion). The US did have a slim lead in one particular category, military aid allocated, providing about $67 billion to about $65 billion for Europe. But even that was nowhere close to the giant gulf Trump described.

We're all entitled to our opinions, Greggery. CNN says this, DL says that, his followers believe what they're told.

Leroy's armed with something no one else has - an exclamation mark.

FAKE NEWS !!!

Leroy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 10:54am:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:51am: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:25am: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:21am: Fact check: Trump’s barrage of lies about Zelensky and Ukraine In remarks to reporters on Tuesday and in a social media post on Wednesday, Trump made numerous false claims about Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and the Russian war on Ukraine – some of which echoed inaccurate talking points from Russian President Vladimir Putin. Here is a fact check of some of his assertions. Who started the war Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Trump dismissed Ukraine’s complaints about its exclusion from US-Russia talks on ending the war – and falsely said of Ukraine: “You should’ve never started it. You could’ve made a deal.” Ukraine did not start the war. Russia started the war by invading Ukraine in 2022. Trump’s own former vice president, Mike Pence, and several Republican lawmakers have noted this obvious fact in the wake of Trump’s lie. Zelensky had the opportunity to make a deal with Putin, if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war. NATO and Europe insistence that Ukraine resist Putin led them down the path of war. Its not my opinion or apportioning blame but just a fact. Quote: Russia has massed more than 100,000 troops around Ukraine’s borders and is campaigning for security guarantees from the West including a guarantee that Kyiv will be prevented from ever joining NATO’s ranks, despite Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy pushing for it to do so. “We need to resolve this question now … [and] we hope very much our concern will be heard by our partners and taken seriously,” Putin told reporters in Moscow https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/15/putin-ukraine-nato-membership-question-must-be-resolved-now . Why doesn't Russia want Ukraine to join NATO? Probably the same reason America threatened to go to war with Russia if they put missiles in Cuba.

So Russia invaded because they didn't get what they wanted via diplomacy, after they had already invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea, so their "trust us" claims during the diplomacy stage didn't really hold much water?

Do you think that maybe it has something to do with their apparent strategic goal of keeping Ukraine under Russian influence?  And if so, to take away Ukraine's independence if they were under EU or NATO membership, Russia would need to deal with them?

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 11:28am:

I suppose a time will come when we all just shrug at the jaw-droppingly inane crap that Trump spews.  :(

Yawn.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 11:58am:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:51am: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:25am: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:21am: Fact check: Trump’s barrage of lies about Zelensky and Ukraine In remarks to reporters on Tuesday and in a social media post on Wednesday, Trump made numerous false claims about Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and the Russian war on Ukraine – some of which echoed inaccurate talking points from Russian President Vladimir Putin. Here is a fact check of some of his assertions. Who started the war Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Trump dismissed Ukraine’s complaints about its exclusion from US-Russia talks on ending the war – and falsely said of Ukraine: “You should’ve never started it. You could’ve made a deal.” Ukraine did not start the war. Russia started the war by invading Ukraine in 2022. Trump’s own former vice president, Mike Pence, and several Republican lawmakers have noted this obvious fact in the wake of Trump’s lie. Zelensky had the opportunity to make a deal with Putin, if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war. NATO and Europe insistence that Ukraine resist Putin led them down the path of war. Its not my opinion or apportioning blame but just a fact. Quote: Russia has massed more than 100,000 troops around Ukraine’s borders and is campaigning for security guarantees from the West including a guarantee that Kyiv will be prevented from ever joining NATO’s ranks, despite Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy pushing for it to do so. “We need to resolve this question now … [and] we hope very much our concern will be heard by our partners and taken seriously,” Putin told reporters in Moscow https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/15/putin-ukraine-nato-membership-question-must-be-resolved-now . Why doesn't Russia want Ukraine to join NATO? Here's the most important point that many are missing about NATO. The organisation is purely defensive in nature. It is not offensive, and says so in its charter. Ukraine joining NATO is in no way a threat to Putin. It only becomes a threat if Putin takes action against Ukraine, which he has done.

Ah.

for the 1000th time

trump is ALLOWED to lie.

because he has reframed himself as a storyteller.

nobody cares what pedants think

he controls all arms of government, the judiciary and thanks to X the media

and big tech has bent down and kissed the ring.

on what planet would he care if a chode like gweg or karmal says he's telling a fib.

you are irrelevant  ;D

Zelensky and ‘missing’ aid money

In the Wednesday social media post, Trump falsely claimed that Zelensky “admits that half of the money we sent him is ‘MISSING.’” He made a similar claim to reporters on Tuesday.

But Zelensky has made no such admission. Rather, he has taken issue with inflated claims about how much US cash Ukraine has received.

He said in a February 1 interview with the Associated Press that although people talk about Ukraine getting as much as $200 billion in US aid, Ukraine had received about $76 billion, largely in the form of weapons. Zelensky said he doesn’t know where all the professed additional money has gone and that perhaps these higher figures are correct “on paper,” according to a translation by the news outlet Ukrainska Pravda.

Contrary to some viral social media posts this month, that wasn’t a confession that half of the cash that the US sent to Ukraine had vanished. In reality, Zelensky was saying exactly what experts in the US and elsewhere have repeatedly pointed out – that a large chunk of the total US budgetary “response” to the Ukraine war is not in the form of money handed to the Ukrainian government.

For example, experts at the Center for Strategic and International Studies think tank wrote last May: “The notion of ‘aid to Ukraine’ is a misnomer. Despite images of ‘pallets of cash’ being sent to Ukraine, about 72 percent of this money overall and 86 percent of the military aid will be spent in the United States. The reason for this high percentage is that weapons going to Ukraine are produced in U.S. factories, payments to U.S. service members are mostly spent in the United States, and even some piece of the humanitarian aid is spent in the United States.”

In new comments to reporters on Wednesday, Reuters reported, Zelensky said the US has provided about $67 billion in weapons and $31.5 billion in budget support.

Leroy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 10:25am:

Zelensky had the opportunity to make a deal with Putin, if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war.

are you a Putin stooge? The crap you come up with. Zelensky only considered joining nato AFTER Russia had already annexed Crimea. If Putin had stayed out of Ukraine it would never have been an issue

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:14pm:

for the 1000th time trump is ALLOWED to lie. because he has reframed himself as a storyteller. nobody cares what pedants think he controls all arms of government, the judiciary and thanks to X the media and big tech has bent down and kissed the ring. on what planet would he care if a chode like gweg or karmal says he's telling a fib. you are irrelevant  ;D

You heard it here first, leftards, the jig's up. We've moved on from a political discussion of facts and figures (so 2015) to the dissemination of propaganda and full-blown cult worship.

Forget all our previous signalling about the importance of truth, justice and the American way.

From here on in, we'll eat it and we'll like it. We need to bow down and weep tears of pure gratitude.

Or else.

John Smith wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:22pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:25am: Zelensky had the opportunity to make a deal with Putin, if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war. are you a Putin stooge? The crap you come up with. Zelensky only considered joining nato AFTER Russia had already annexed Crimea. If Putin had stayed out of Ukraine it would never have been an issue

NATO membership had nothing to do with Putin invading Ukraine. Putin justified his invasion at the time by saying he moved in to protect ethnic Russians from supposed mistreatment by Ukraine, despite there being no proof of any such allegations being true. The excuse about NATO membership came later and in any case is ridiculous, since NATO is a defensive organisation only.

Karnal wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:39pm:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 12:14pm: for the 1000th time trump is ALLOWED to lie. because he has reframed himself as a storyteller. nobody cares what pedants think he controls all arms of government, the judiciary and thanks to X the media and big tech has bent down and kissed the ring. on what planet would he care if a chode like gweg or karmal says he's telling a fib. you are irrelevant  ;D You heard it here first, leftards, the jig's up. We've moved on from a political discussion of facts and figures (so 2015) to the dissemination of propaganda and full-blown cult worship. Forget all our previous signalling about the importance of truth, justice and the American way. From here on in, we'll eat it and we'll like it. We need to bow down and weep tears of pure gratitude. Or else.

when was there ever agreement on the "truth" .

your truth is completely different from my truth.

trump is the only honest one because he recognises this deeper "truth"

Leroy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 10:54am:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:51am: Why doesn't Russia want Ukraine to join NATO? Probably the same reason America threatened to go to war with Russia if they put missiles in Cuba.

The M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) of 2022 in Ukraine is not a nuclear weapon system.

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:14pm:

for the 1000th time trump is ALLOWED to lie.

That's Trump Derangement Syndrome, especially after "Lying Hillary" and "Lying KamalAH" were such big problems for you.

chimera wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 1:21pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:54am: KangAnon wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:51am: Why doesn't Russia want Ukraine to join NATO? Probably the same reason America threatened to go to war with Russia if they put missiles in Cuba. The M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) of 2022 in Ukraine is not a nuclear weapon system.

Ukraine has no nuclear weapons, they gave them all up with the fall of the Soviet Union.

John Smith wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:22pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:25am: Zelensky had the opportunity to make a deal with Putin, if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war. are you a Putin stooge?

Leroy is Vladimir's username : 'the king'. Trump is on Ozpol, too.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:43pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 12:22pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:25am: Zelensky had the opportunity to make a deal with Putin, if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war. are you a Putin stooge? The crap you come up with. Zelensky only considered joining nato AFTER Russia had already annexed Crimea. If Putin had stayed out of Ukraine it would never have been an issue NATO membership had nothing to do with Putin invading Ukraine. Putin justified his invasion at the time by saying he moved in to protect ethnic Russians from supposed mistreatment by Ukraine, despite there being no proof of any such allegations being true. The excuse about NATO membership came later and in any case is ridiculous, since NATO is a defensive organisation only.

;D ;D ;D

chimera wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 1:21pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:54am: KangAnon wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:51am: Why doesn't Russia want Ukraine to join NATO? Probably the same reason America threatened to go to war with Russia if they put missiles in Cuba. The M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) of 2022 in Ukraine is not a nuclear weapon system.

Russia is not going to allow NATO to be in the Ukraine, That is just not going to happen, whilst Zelensky continues to insist that Ukraine will join NATO people are going to die.

Putin has made it clear that NATO in Ukraine is a threat to his country and he will not allow it. Thats just a fact of life.

Leroy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 4:54pm:

chimera wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 1:21pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:54am: KangAnon wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:51am: Why doesn't Russia want Ukraine to join NATO? Probably the same reason America threatened to go to war with Russia if they put missiles in Cuba. The M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) of 2022 in Ukraine is not a nuclear weapon system. Russia is not going to allow NATO to be in the Ukraine, That is just not going to happen, whilst Zelensky continues to insist that Ukraine will join NATO people are going to die. Putin has made it clear that NATO in Ukraine is a threat to his country and he will not allow it. Thats just a fact of life.

So it's Putin's fault.

Leroy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 10:25am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:21am: Fact check: Trump’s barrage of lies about Zelensky and Ukraine In remarks to reporters on Tuesday and in a social media post on Wednesday, Trump made numerous false claims about Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and the Russian war on Ukraine – some of which echoed inaccurate talking points from Russian President Vladimir Putin. Here is a fact check of some of his assertions. Who started the war Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Trump dismissed Ukraine’s complaints about its exclusion from US-Russia talks on ending the war – and falsely said of Ukraine: “You should’ve never started it. You could’ve made a deal.” Ukraine did not start the war. Russia started the war by invading Ukraine in 2022. Trump’s own former vice president, Mike Pence, and several Republican lawmakers have noted this obvious fact in the wake of Trump’s lie. Zelensky had the opportunity to make a deal with Putin, if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war. NATO and Europe insistence that Ukraine resist Putin led them down the path of war. Its not my opinion or apportioning blame but just a fact. Quote: Russia has massed more than 100,000 troops around Ukraine’s borders and is campaigning for security guarantees from the West including a guarantee that Kyiv will be prevented from ever joining NATO’s ranks, despite Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy pushing for it to do so. “We need to resolve this question now … [and] we hope very much our concern will be heard by our partners and taken seriously,” Putin told reporters in Moscow https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/15/putin-ukraine-nato-membership-question-must-be-resolved-now .

Quote:

Ukraine’s complaints about its exclusion from US-Russia talks on ending the war

Without Ukraine there are no discussions about ending the war.


Quote:

if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war.

There was no discussion or move to join NATO TILL AFTER THE INVASION Besides as a sovereign country joining NATO or not is none of Russia's business.

Leroy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 4:51pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 12:43pm: John Smith wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 12:22pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:25am: Zelensky had the opportunity to make a deal with Putin, if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war. are you a Putin stooge? The crap you come up with. Zelensky only considered joining nato AFTER Russia had already annexed Crimea. If Putin had stayed out of Ukraine it would never have been an issue NATO membership had nothing to do with Putin invading Ukraine. Putin justified his invasion at the time by saying he moved in to protect ethnic Russians from supposed mistreatment by Ukraine, despite there being no proof of any such allegations being true. The excuse about NATO membership came later and in any case is ridiculous, since NATO is a defensive organisation only. ;D ;D ;D

NATO membership wasn't even in the cards at the time, doofus. It was all about how Ukraine was supposedly mistreating ethnic Russians and how Putin was moving in to protect them, which was a bald faced lie. You really have to stop listening to Fox News and Trump. It's rotting your brain, what little you have of one.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 3:30pm:

chimera wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 1:21pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:54am: KangAnon wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:51am: Why doesn't Russia want Ukraine to join NATO? Probably the same reason America threatened to go to war with Russia if they put missiles in Cuba. The M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) of 2022 in Ukraine is not a nuclear weapon system. Ukraine has no nuclear weapons, they gave them all up with the fall of the Soviet Union.

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Three decades ago, the newly independent country of Ukraine was briefly the third-largest nuclear power in the world. Thousands of nuclear arms had been left on Ukrainian soil by Moscow after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. But in the years that followed, Ukraine made the decision to completely denuclearize. In exchange, the U.S., the U.K. and Russia would guarantee Ukraine's security in a 1994 agreement known as the Budapest Memorandum.

Leroy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 4:54pm:

chimera wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 1:21pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:54am: KangAnon wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:51am: Why doesn't Russia want Ukraine to join NATO? Probably the same reason America threatened to go to war with Russia if they put missiles in Cuba. The M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) of 2022 in Ukraine is not a nuclear weapon system. Russia is not going to allow NATO to be in the Ukraine, That is just not going to happen, whilst Zelensky continues to insist that Ukraine will join NATO people are going to die. Putin has made it clear that NATO in Ukraine is a threat to his country and he will not allow it. Thats just a fact of life.

Other NATO countries share a border with Russia and none have ever been a problem. This is just another furphy. A sovereign country being a member of NATO or not is none of Russia's business.

.

.

Dnarever wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 6:44pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 4:54pm: chimera wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 1:21pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:54am: KangAnon wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:51am: Why doesn't Russia want Ukraine to join NATO? Probably the same reason America threatened to go to war with Russia if they put missiles in Cuba. The M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) of 2022 in Ukraine is not a nuclear weapon system. Russia is not going to allow NATO to be in the Ukraine, That is just not going to happen, whilst Zelensky continues to insist that Ukraine will join NATO people are going to die. Putin has made it clear that NATO in Ukraine is a threat to his country and he will not allow it. Thats just a fact of life. Other NATO countries share a border with Russia and none have ever been a problem. This is just another furphy. A sovereign country being a member of NATO or not is none of Russia's business.

Quote:

Why NATO Expansion Explains Russia’s Actions in Ukraine The Kremlin’s decision to invade Ukraine has been primarily driven by the threat of NATO’s expansion along Russia’s border. Its strategic objective is to annex some Ukrainian territory and badly weaken the country so it cannot join NATO. Since Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, a chorus of government officials, academics, commentators, and retired bureaucrats and diplomats has dismissed all links between the crisis and the decades-long NATO expansion. Moscow’s aggression, we are told, is all about Vladimir Putin’s imperial impulse—his desire to recreate the Russian empire. In reality, the Kremlin’s conduct has been primarily driven by the threat of NATO’s expansion along Russia’s border. We had some warning of Russia’s strategic sensibilities three decades ago. https://www.internationalaffairs.org.au/australianoutlook/why-nato-expansion-explains-russias-actions-in-ukraine/

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 6:36pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 4:51pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 12:43pm: John Smith wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 12:22pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:25am: Zelensky had the opportunity to make a deal with Putin, if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war. are you a Putin stooge? The crap you come up with. Zelensky only considered joining nato AFTER Russia had already annexed Crimea. If Putin had stayed out of Ukraine it would never have been an issue NATO membership had nothing to do with Putin invading Ukraine. Putin justified his invasion at the time by saying he moved in to protect ethnic Russians from supposed mistreatment by Ukraine, despite there being no proof of any such allegations being true. The excuse about NATO membership came later and in any case is ridiculous, since NATO is a defensive organisation only. ;D ;D ;D NATO membership wasn't even in the cards at the time, doofus. It was all about how Ukraine was supposedly mistreating ethnic Russians and how Putin was moving in to protect them, which was a bald faced lie. You really have to stop listening to Fox News and Trump. It's rotting your brain, what little you have of one.

I half agree with Leroy.  The war is about Urkaine joining NATO, and NATO east ward expansion.

RFK Jr.’s History Lesson On How The U.S. Provoked The Ukraine War

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNC3N93YYNE

But I disagree that it is Ukraine that provoked the war.   It is the US that goaded them into confrontation and war.   It was George Bush Sen that started plans for east ward expansion of NATO.  And George Bush Jnr who first floated the idea of Ukraine joining NATO. 

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 6:36pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 4:51pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 12:43pm: John Smith wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 12:22pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:25am: Zelensky had the opportunity to make a deal with Putin, if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war. are you a Putin stooge? The crap you come up with. Zelensky only considered joining nato AFTER Russia had already annexed Crimea. If Putin had stayed out of Ukraine it would never have been an issue NATO membership had nothing to do with Putin invading Ukraine. Putin justified his invasion at the time by saying he moved in to protect ethnic Russians from supposed mistreatment by Ukraine, despite there being no proof of any such allegations being true. The excuse about NATO membership came later and in any case is ridiculous, since NATO is a defensive organisation only. ;D ;D ;D NATO membership wasn't even in the cards at the time, doofus. It was all about how Ukraine was supposedly mistreating ethnic Russians and how Putin was moving in to protect them, which was a bald faced lie. You really have to stop listening to Fox News and Trump. It's rotting your brain, what little you have of one.

Silly doofus me.


Quote:

During the 1990’s debate over whether Hungary, Poland, and the Czech Republic should become alliance members, many military and foreign-policy experts argued that NATO expansion would lead to big trouble with Russia. It would create the very danger it was supposed to prevent: Russian aggression in reaction to what Moscow would deem a provocative and threatening Western policy.

Leroy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 6:49pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 6:44pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 4:54pm: chimera wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 1:21pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:54am: KangAnon wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:51am: Why doesn't Russia want Ukraine to join NATO? Probably the same reason America threatened to go to war with Russia if they put missiles in Cuba. The M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) of 2022 in Ukraine is not a nuclear weapon system. Russia is not going to allow NATO to be in the Ukraine, That is just not going to happen, whilst Zelensky continues to insist that Ukraine will join NATO people are going to die. Putin has made it clear that NATO in Ukraine is a threat to his country and he will not allow it. Thats just a fact of life. Other NATO countries share a border with Russia and none have ever been a problem. This is just another furphy. A sovereign country being a member of NATO or not is none of Russia's business. Quote: Why NATO Expansion Explains Russia’s Actions in Ukraine The Kremlin’s decision to invade Ukraine has been primarily driven by the threat of NATO’s expansion along Russia’s border. Its strategic objective is to annex some Ukrainian territory and badly weaken the country so it cannot join NATO. Since Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, a chorus of government officials, academics, commentators, and retired bureaucrats and diplomats has dismissed all links between the crisis and the decades-long NATO expansion. Moscow’s aggression, we are told, is all about Vladimir Putin’s imperial impulse—his desire to recreate the Russian empire. In reality, the Kremlin’s conduct has been primarily driven by the threat of NATO’s expansion along Russia’s border. We had some warning of Russia’s strategic sensibilities three decades ago. https://www.internationalaffairs.org.au/australianoutlook/why-nato-expansion-explains-russias-actions-in-ukraine/

Putin really has scored a massive own goal thanks to his invasion of Ukraine. Rather than trying to stop the spread of NATO, he actually increased it when traditionally neutral countries Sweden and Finland joined the organisation. Why did they do so, after decades of neutrality? Because of Putin invading a neighbouring country. NATO is no threat to Putin because it is a defensive organisation, not offensive. Any argument to the contrary is pointless because it simply isn't true. Putin brought this on himself, plain and simple.

Leroy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 6:51pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 6:36pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 4:51pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 12:43pm: John Smith wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 12:22pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:25am: Zelensky had the opportunity to make a deal with Putin, if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war. are you a Putin stooge? The crap you come up with. Zelensky only considered joining nato AFTER Russia had already annexed Crimea. If Putin had stayed out of Ukraine it would never have been an issue NATO membership had nothing to do with Putin invading Ukraine. Putin justified his invasion at the time by saying he moved in to protect ethnic Russians from supposed mistreatment by Ukraine, despite there being no proof of any such allegations being true. The excuse about NATO membership came later and in any case is ridiculous, since NATO is a defensive organisation only. ;D ;D ;D NATO membership wasn't even in the cards at the time, doofus. It was all about how Ukraine was supposedly mistreating ethnic Russians and how Putin was moving in to protect them, which was a bald faced lie. You really have to stop listening to Fox News and Trump. It's rotting your brain, what little you have of one. Silly doofus me. Quote: During the 1990’s debate over whether Hungary, Poland, and the Czech Republic should become alliance members, many military and foreign-policy experts argued that NATO expansion would lead to big trouble with Russia. It would create the very danger it was supposed to prevent: Russian aggression in reaction to what Moscow would deem a provocative and threatening Western policy.

UKRAINE, doofus!!! There was no talk of Ukraine joining NATO at that time!!!

KangAnon wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 1:59pm:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 12:14pm: for the 1000th time trump is ALLOWED to lie. That's Trump Derangement Syndrome, especially after "Lying Hillary" and "Lying KamalAH" were such big problems for you.

That's a lie 😕

Find one post where I complained  about Hilary or Harris lying and I will leave the forum

Politicians lying is of zero consequence.

What matters is their ability to reduce the size of government and leave the citizens alone  ;)

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 7:49pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 6:51pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 6:36pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 4:51pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 12:43pm: John Smith wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 12:22pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:25am: Zelensky had the opportunity to make a deal with Putin, if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war. are you a Putin stooge? The crap you come up with. Zelensky only considered joining nato AFTER Russia had already annexed Crimea. If Putin had stayed out of Ukraine it would never have been an issue NATO membership had nothing to do with Putin invading Ukraine. Putin justified his invasion at the time by saying he moved in to protect ethnic Russians from supposed mistreatment by Ukraine, despite there being no proof of any such allegations being true. The excuse about NATO membership came later and in any case is ridiculous, since NATO is a defensive organisation only. ;D ;D ;D NATO membership wasn't even in the cards at the time, doofus. It was all about how Ukraine was supposedly mistreating ethnic Russians and how Putin was moving in to protect them, which was a bald faced lie. You really have to stop listening to Fox News and Trump. It's rotting your brain, what little you have of one. Silly doofus me. Quote: During the 1990’s debate over whether Hungary, Poland, and the Czech Republic should become alliance members, many military and foreign-policy experts argued that NATO expansion would lead to big trouble with Russia. It would create the very danger it was supposed to prevent: Russian aggression in reaction to what Moscow would deem a provocative and threatening Western policy. UKRAINE, doofus!!! There was no talk of Ukraine joining NATO at that time!!!

You didn't know at the time but NATO did.

Quote:

2008: NATO countries welcome Ukraine and Georgia’s aspirations to join the alliance, angering Russia. In August, Russia wins a short war with Georgia over the breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, which Moscow recognizes as independent states. In 1994, Ukraine joined the NATO Partnership for Peace program and through it worked with the alliance to fight corruption in Ukraine’s military, improve its military training and get other countries to take its excess and obsolete weapons. This showed that a post-Soviet Ukraine was willing to work with NATO even when membership was not an option. At the April 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest, Romania, member nations agreed that Ukraine and Georgia would become members of NATO. But the alliance suggested conditions, including democratic reforms in both countries, with no clear plan for achieving those reforms. In 2010, Yanukovych, who campaigned on a promise to keep Ukraine out of NATO, was elected president. Once in office, he abolished a commission that had been established to help Ukraine integrate with NATO. In 2013, Yanukovych ended discussions between Ukraine and the EU for a political and trade deal known as an association agreement. That decision sparked protests in Kyiv and around the country.

Leroy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 6:49pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 6:44pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 4:54pm: chimera wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 1:21pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:54am: KangAnon wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:51am: Why doesn't Russia want Ukraine to join NATO? Probably the same reason America threatened to go to war with Russia if they put missiles in Cuba. The M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) of 2022 in Ukraine is not a nuclear weapon system. Russia is not going to allow NATO to be in the Ukraine, That is just not going to happen, whilst Zelensky continues to insist that Ukraine will join NATO people are going to die. Putin has made it clear that NATO in Ukraine is a threat to his country and he will not allow it. Thats just a fact of life. Other NATO countries share a border with Russia and none have ever been a problem. This is just another furphy. A sovereign country being a member of NATO or not is none of Russia's business. Quote: Why NATO Expansion Explains Russia’s Actions in Ukraine The Kremlin’s decision to invade Ukraine has been primarily driven by the threat of NATO’s expansion along Russia’s border. Its strategic objective is to annex some Ukrainian territory and badly weaken the country so it cannot join NATO. Since Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, a chorus of government officials, academics, commentators, and retired bureaucrats and diplomats has dismissed all links between the crisis and the decades-long NATO expansion. Moscow’s aggression, we are told, is all about Vladimir Putin’s imperial impulse—his desire to recreate the Russian empire. In reality, the Kremlin’s conduct has been primarily driven by the threat of NATO’s expansion along Russia’s border. We had some warning of Russia’s strategic sensibilities three decades ago. https://www.internationalaffairs.org.au/australianoutlook/why-nato-expansion-explains-russias-actions-in-ukraine/

Quote:

is to annex some Ukrainian territory and badly weaken the country so it cannot join NATO.

Wouldn't that make them more likely to want to join NATO.

Reads a lot like Russian propaganda.

Fact remains that three countries have applied to join NATO because of this invasion, It wasn't being considered by any of them before.

Quote:

Trump’s barrage of lies

We are forced to at least consider if not believe that the Trump supporters actually like the lies.

The most transparent of lies are eagerly supported by this group without question. Its like they drank half the kool-aid Had the lobotomy and then bought the dummy's guide in how to support liars.

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 1:17pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 12:39pm: aquascoot wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 12:14pm: for the 1000th time trump is ALLOWED to lie. because he has reframed himself as a storyteller. nobody cares what pedants think he controls all arms of government, the judiciary and thanks to X the media and big tech has bent down and kissed the ring. on what planet would he care if a chode like gweg or karmal says he's telling a fib. you are irrelevant  ;D You heard it here first, leftards, the jig's up. We've moved on from a political discussion of facts and figures (so 2015) to the dissemination of propaganda and full-blown cult worship. Forget all our previous signalling about the importance of truth, justice and the American way. From here on in, we'll eat it and we'll like it. We need to bow down and weep tears of pure gratitude. Or else. when was there ever agreement on the "truth" . your truth is completely different from my truth. trump is the only honest one because he recognises this deeper "truth"

Why, every time you admit they're lies, you silly old thing. Sometimes you even sneak off when you've been caught out.

You know the truth, you just like playing fake news. When you're caught, you play sometimes a question.

Just remember to stick that question mark at the end and you'll be fine.

So post-modern, no?

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 8:05pm:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 1:59pm: aquascoot wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 12:14pm: for the 1000th time trump is ALLOWED to lie. That's Trump Derangement Syndrome, especially after "Lying Hillary" and "Lying KamalAH" were such big problems for you. That's a lie 😕 Find one post where I complained  about Hilary or Harris lying and I will leave the forum Politicians lying is of zero consequence. What matters is their ability to reduce the size of government and leave the citizens alone  ;)

Aha. So we have a new definition of virtue.

What's the bet you change what matters in the next 24 hours?

Come come. Once DL decides to expand the government, waste lots of money, start a new endless war, launch a few mass arrests and build lots of new jails, you'll be all in, you know that.

Is there anyway you can defend DL by having no new virtues at all?

He's got 'em all on the run ....

KangAnon wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 5:18pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 4:54pm: chimera wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 1:21pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:54am: KangAnon wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:51am: Why doesn't Russia want Ukraine to join NATO? Probably the same reason America threatened to go to war with Russia if they put missiles in Cuba. The M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) of 2022 in Ukraine is not a nuclear weapon system. Russia is not going to allow NATO to be in the Ukraine, That is just not going to happen, whilst Zelensky continues to insist that Ukraine will join NATO people are going to die. Putin has made it clear that NATO in Ukraine is a threat to his country and he will not allow it. Thats just a fact of life. So it's Putin's fault.

NATO has never moved to attack Russia - Russia on the other hand, attacked inpenendent Ukraine in order to place a buffer between his paranoia and NATO.  Only AFTER Putin attacked Ukraine did NATO actually wake up and begin to re-arm.

The true weakness of Russia's armed forces is shown by their inability to take Ukraine, and so Putin has exposed Russia to countless threats from all sides, while costing hundreds of thousands of lives.

The man is a lunatic.  Now Siberia wants its independence and the Chinese want all 'their' land back... soon Russian Federation will be Russia Sinn Fein!!!

Dnarever wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 8:19pm:

Quote: Trump’s barrage of lies We are forced to at least consider if not believe that the Trump supporters actually like the lies. The most transparent of lies are eagerly supported by this group without question. Its like they drank half the kool-aid Had the lobotomy and then bought the dummy's guide in how to support liars.

List them ....

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 10:25pm:

He's got 'em all on the run ....

'Em?

Us. Our very own government, our very own steel and aluminium plants, one of which just went into liquidation. Our very own $AUD.

Yes, he's got all the US allies nicely on the run. Your DL doesn't punish them, dear. He's out for us.

You?

The war in Ukraine started in 2014 when a coup financed by Soros/USAID overthrew the elected government. Those in Eastern Ukraine rebelled, sparking the fighting we have seen since. Not to mention that Ukraine is and has been a money laundering exercise for the West. The West needed another money laundering war after the US pulled out of Afghanistan. This is why warmongers Zelenski and Netanyahu are so loved by congress.

You need to understand Trump is at war with this global criminal network. When he says "you started it" - its them he's referring to.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:43pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 12:22pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:25am: Zelensky had the opportunity to make a deal with Putin, if he had agreed not to join NATO he may have been able to avoid the war. are you a Putin stooge? The crap you come up with. Zelensky only considered joining nato AFTER Russia had already annexed Crimea. If Putin had stayed out of Ukraine it would never have been an issue NATO membership had nothing to do with Putin invading Ukraine. Putin justified his invasion at the time by saying he moved in to protect ethnic Russians from supposed mistreatment by Ukraine, despite there being no proof of any such allegations being true. The excuse about NATO membership came later and in any case is ridiculous, since NATO is a defensive organisation only.

You need to study a bit of history:

Who started the war in Ukraine?

There is a lot of history that most people in the West know little about -
it's complicated.
There was already a terrible war going on before Putin invaded:

https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/ukrainian-rightists-burn-alive-39-at-odessa-union-building/

May 5, 2014
Ukrainian rightists burn alive 39 at Odessa union building



https://www.crisisgroup.org/content/conflict-ukraines-donbas-visual-explainer

The armed conflict in Eastern Ukraine started in 2014.
Between then and early 2022, it had already killed over 14,000 people.

Would any Australian PM have the guts to stand up to Trump over his appalling latest nonsense?

Something like hurting the US where it might be noticed? Like banning the use of our space tracking systems and expelling US staff from Pine Gap for example?

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 10:29pm:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 5:18pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 4:54pm: chimera wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 1:21pm: Leroy wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:54am: KangAnon wrote on Feb 20th, 2025 at 10:51am: Why doesn't Russia want Ukraine to join NATO? Probably the same reason America threatened to go to war with Russia if they put missiles in Cuba. The M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) of 2022 in Ukraine is not a nuclear weapon system. Russia is not going to allow NATO to be in the Ukraine, That is just not going to happen, whilst Zelensky continues to insist that Ukraine will join NATO people are going to die. Putin has made it clear that NATO in Ukraine is a threat to his country and he will not allow it. Thats just a fact of life. So it's Putin's fault. NATO has never moved to attack Russia - Russia on the other hand, attacked inpenendent Ukraine in order to place a buffer between his paranoia and NATO.  Only AFTER Putin attacked Ukraine did NATO actually wake up and begin to re-arm. The true weakness of Russia's armed forces is shown by their inability to take Ukraine, and so Putin has exposed Russia to countless threats from all sides, while costing hundreds of thousands of lives. The man is a lunatic.  Now Siberia wants its independence and the Chinese want all 'their' land back... soon Russian Federation will be Russia Sinn Fein!!!

A lot of people choose to ignore those wise words because it doesn't align with MAGA.

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 9:59am:

Would any Australian PM have the guts to stand up to Trump over his appalling latest nonsense? Something like hurting the US where it might be noticed? Like banning the use of our space tracking systems and expelling US staff from Pine Gap for example?

No world leader has the guts to say boo to Trump.   :-[