Have you noticed how the Lefties on here presume that if you don't support Ukraine, they will accuse you of supporting Russia.

They can't fathom and are unwilling to accept that many of us refuse to support BOTH.

Why? Because it makes them feel insecure that they will be seen as a Bad guy too, besides Russia.
So desperately, in fear, they try to bring us and many around the world who only support Peace, down to their despicable warmongering level of killing millions of innocents as victims of War.

This is why these Lefties on here make up fabricated lies of how people like Trump or ourselves on here are Putin Supporters. It's all collusion you see. The Left didn't like Russian and American Astro and Cosmonauts working together in space.

They just can't see and DON'T want to see that when it comes to the Ukraine & Russia: TWO WRONGS ARE NOT MAKING A RIGHT... as seen by Zelensky's rejection of PEACE in favour of a Democrat Left's intention of a win (when there is none) and a free bonus of getting something on the side from America.

How low can this evil Left go?

Oh rubbish.  Its the right that egged Ukraine on, thinking that they can join NATO.  Letting them have the false perception that the US and UK will be behind them all the way.   And now, they realised that they have vastly under estimated Russia, they are now trying to jump ship.   And not only that, but also taking whats left of Ukrainian people - the minerals. 

You will find it is a waste of time trying to argue with Jasin. Low intelligence but wants to grandstand all the time. Tiresome.

This is an easy call.

1 Russia invaded Ukraine

2 Ukraine were invaded by Russia.

Ukraine is in the right and Russia is in the wrong.

Quote:

how people like Trump

Trump is blatantly Supporting Putin. He has supported Putin since at least when they were working together on the 2016 election campaign.

tickleandrose wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 8:24am:

Oh rubbish.  Its the right that egged Ukraine on, thinking that they can join NATO.  Letting them have the false perception that the US and UK will be behind them all the way.   And now, they realised that they have vastly under estimated Russia, they are now trying to jump ship.   And not only that, but also taking whats left of Ukrainian people - the minerals.

Well considering the attempts of coercion, snaking words of presumption that if the likes of Trump or ANYONE doesn't side with Ukraine and SPOIL THEIR EVERY LITTLE VICTIMHOOD WHIM.
They are AUTOMATICALLY labelled PRO RUSSIAN/PUTIN.

This obviously makes it glaringly apparent that you Lefties aka DEMOCRATS (of the fictional world of Media and movie stars) are the real cause of the WAR with such absurd, false, presumptive and downright LIE of accusation.

So let's get to the basics like the ol "What is a woman?" Question that you Left failed to answer to this day still.
Q: WHAT PROOF DO YOU HAVE THAT I AM PRO RUSSIAN, BECAUSE I AM NOT PRO UKRAINIAN?

Answer the f@#king question you scumbag Leftist snakes in the grass!!!

It's a very dangerous game pumping out such lies again and again.

It's your choice and fault if you can't bowl middle stump like Glenn McGath.
But to say that those of us who can and do, bowl to the right stump as a lie are more despicable and evil than the lie itself.

Should I say that anyone who doesn't vote for Dutton and his Paedo listing are actually PAEDOPHILES?


It's blatant that POLITICAL MEDIATION AND THE NEUTRAL RESPONSIBILITY OF IT, is totally lost on you extremaphiles of Media propaganda lies called 'The Bold & the Bullshyte'.

Jasin wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 10:57am:

tickleandrose wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 8:24am: Oh rubbish.  Its the right that egged Ukraine on, thinking that they can join NATO.  Letting them have the false perception that the US and UK will be behind them all the way.   And now, they realised that they have vastly under estimated Russia, they are now trying to jump ship.   And not only that, but also taking whats left of Ukrainian people - the minerals.  Well considering the attempts of coercion, snaking words of presumption that if the likes of Trump or ANYONE doesn't side with Ukraine and SPOIL THEIR EVERY LITTLE VICTIMHOOD WHIM. They are AUTOMATICALLY labelled PRO RUSSIAN/PUTIN. This obviously makes it glaringly apparent that you Lefties aka DEMOCRATS (of the fictional world of Media and movie stars) are the real cause of the WAR with such absurd, false, presumptive and downright LIE of accusation. So let's get to the basics like the ol "What is a woman?" Question that you Left failed to answer to this day still. Q: WHAT PROOF DO YOU HAVE THAT I AM PRO RUSSIAN, BECAUSE I AM NOT PRO UKRAINIAN? Answer the f@#king question you scumbag Leftist snakes in the grass!!! It's a very dangerous game pumping out such lies again and again. It's your choice and fault if you can't bowl middle stump like Glenn McGath. But to say that those of us who can and do, bowl to the right stump as a lie are more despicable and evil than the lie itself. Should I say that anyone who doesn't vote for Dutton and his Paedo listing are actually PAEDOPHILES? It's blatant that POLITICAL MEDIATION AND THE NEUTRAL RESPONSIBILITY OF IT, is totally lost on you extremaphiles of Media propaganda lies called 'The Bold & the Bullshyte'.

Calm down Jason.  Its okay.  You are allowed an opinion.  It’s not like what we think is going to make much difference anyway.   I am not saying that you are pro Russian.  But people are saying… Trumps action towards Ukraine, seemed to further pro Russian agendas.  So much so, that all the European countries came out and protest, and the Russians are voting WITH USA in the UN on Ukraine war resolution.

And they are all cold, hard realities. 

And for your information, I am definitively not voting for nuclear Dutton.   :)

Jasin wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 6:52am:

Have you noticed how the Lefties on here presume that if you don't support Ukraine, they will accuse you of supporting Russia. They can't fathom and are unwilling to accept that many of us refuse to support BOTH. Why? Because it makes them feel insecure that they will be seen as a Bad guy too, besides Russia. So desperately, in fear, they try to bring us and many around the world who only support Peace, down to their despicable warmongering level of killing millions of innocents as victims of War. This is why these Lefties on here make up fabricated lies of how people like Trump or ourselves on here are Putin Supporters. It's all collusion you see. The Left didn't like Russian and American Astro and Cosmonauts working together in space. They just can't see and DON'T want to see that when it comes to the Ukraine & Russia: TWO WRONGS ARE NOT MAKING A RIGHT... as seen by Zelensky's rejection of PEACE in favour of a Democrat Left's intention of a win (when there is none) and a free bonus of getting something on the side from America. How low can this evil Left go?

You've a nerve.

You and several other members here have labelled anyone caring about the genocide in Palestine as terrorist supporters and antisemites. Gleefully. Despite every one of us repeatedly condemning the actions of Hamas that fateful day.

You've absolutely no leg to stand on.

Trump is Pro Putin ... it's not even debatable anymore ::)

mothra wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 11:50am:

Jasin wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 6:52am: Have you noticed how the Lefties on here presume that if you don't support Ukraine, they will accuse you of supporting Russia. They can't fathom and are unwilling to accept that many of us refuse to support BOTH. Why? Because it makes them feel insecure that they will be seen as a Bad guy too, besides Russia. So desperately, in fear, they try to bring us and many around the world who only support Peace, down to their despicable warmongering level of killing millions of innocents as victims of War. This is why these Lefties on here make up fabricated lies of how people like Trump or ourselves on here are Putin Supporters. It's all collusion you see. The Left didn't like Russian and American Astro and Cosmonauts working together in space. They just can't see and DON'T want to see that when it comes to the Ukraine & Russia: TWO WRONGS ARE NOT MAKING A RIGHT... as seen by Zelensky's rejection of PEACE in favour of a Democrat Left's intention of a win (when there is none) and a free bonus of getting something on the side from America. How low can this evil Left go? You've a nerve. You and several other members here have labelled anyone caring about the genocide in Palestine as terrorist supporters and antisemites. Gleefully. Despite every one of us repeatedly condemning the actions of Hamas that fateful day. You've absolutely no leg to stand on.

Did you ever march for the release of the Israeli hostages ? Did you ever march to protest Hamas's actions, including its ongoing rocket attacks on Israel? Did you occupy university campuses to express your "condemnation"?

No, of course not.

You are a total hypocrite, a typical pwogwessive two-faced hypocrite.

John Smith wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 11:54am:

Trump is Pro Putin ... it's not even debatable anymore ::)

Zello is ready for ceasefire and a deal.  He must be pro Putin, yeah?


(Gawd,  you are the thickest tool, it's not even debatable anymore, thicko as mince-o.)

Frank wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 12:03pm:

Zello is ready for ceasefire and a deal.  He must be pro Putin, yeah? (Gawd,  you are the thickest tool, it's not even debatable anymore, thicko as mince-o.)

Wrong again dumbarse, Zelinsky isn't pro Putin, he's just being blackmailed

John Smith wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 12:06pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 12:03pm: Zello is ready for ceasefire and a deal.  He must be pro Putin, yeah? (Gawd,  you are the thickest tool, it's not even debatable anymore, thicko as mince-o.) Wrong again dumbarse, Zelinsky isn't pro Putin, he's just being blackmailed

How so?

Who is blackmailing him and how?

Frank wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 12:19pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 12:06pm: Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 12:03pm: Zello is ready for ceasefire and a deal.  He must be pro Putin, yeah? (Gawd,  you are the thickest tool, it's not even debatable anymore, thicko as mince-o.) Wrong again dumbarse, Zelinsky isn't pro Putin, he's just being blackmailed How so? Who is blackmailing him and how?

trump ... and if you need to ask why, then you really are an idiot

John Smith wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 12:51pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 12:19pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 12:06pm: Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 12:03pm: Zello is ready for ceasefire and a deal.  He must be pro Putin, yeah? (Gawd,  you are the thickest tool, it's not even debatable anymore, thicko as mince-o.) Wrong again dumbarse, Zelinsky isn't pro Putin, he's just being blackmailed How so? Who is blackmailing him and how? trump ... and if you need to ask why, then you really are an idiot

How is he blackmailing Zello?

Does Zello depend on Trump and America in any way?

Frank wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 1:49pm:

How is he blackmailing Zello? Does Zello depend on Trump and America in any way?

by withdrawing military aid

of course he depends on the USA ... the US agreed to help them defend against invasion if they gave up their nukes .. Ukraine gave up their nukes, now it's time for the US to live up to it's end of the bargain.

John Smith wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 2:09pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 1:49pm: How is he blackmailing Zello? Does Zello depend on Trump and America in any way? by withdrawing military aid of course he depends on the USA ... the US agreed to help them defend against invasion if they gave up their nukes .. Ukraine gave up their nukes, now it's time for the US to live up to it's end of the bargain.

Point us to that treaty obligation for the US to defend Ukraine.

Frank wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 3:21pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 2:09pm: Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 1:49pm: How is he blackmailing Zello? Does Zello depend on Trump and America in any way? by withdrawing military aid of course he depends on the USA ... the US agreed to help them defend against invasion if they gave up their nukes .. Ukraine gave up their nukes, now it's time for the US to live up to it's end of the bargain. Point us to that treaty obligation for the US to defend Ukraine.

i gave it to you in the other thread you asked ya dumbarse

John Smith wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 3:21pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 3:21pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 2:09pm: Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 1:49pm: How is he blackmailing Zello? Does Zello depend on Trump and America in any way? by withdrawing military aid of course he depends on the USA ... the US agreed to help them defend against invasion if they gave up their nukes .. Ukraine gave up their nukes, now it's time for the US to live up to it's end of the bargain. Point us to that treaty obligation for the US to defend Ukraine. i gave it to you in the other thread you asked ya dumbarse

There is nothing in that memorandum about any obligation by the US or UK to defend Ukraine.

They agreed to the following:

Respect the signatory's independence and sovereignty in the existing borders (in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act).[9]

Refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the signatories to the memorandum, and undertake that none of their weapons will ever be used against these countries, except in cases of self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine, the Republic of Belarus and Kazakhstan of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.

Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".

Not to use nuclear weapons against any non–nuclear-weapon state party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.[5]: 169–171 [10][11]

Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments.

https://treaties.un.org/Pages/showDetails.aspx?objid=0800000280338ba9


Which part did you misunderstand, thicko?

mothra wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 11:50am:

Jasin wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 6:52am: Have you noticed how the Lefties on here presume that if you don't support Ukraine, they will accuse you of supporting Russia. They can't fathom and are unwilling to accept that many of us refuse to support BOTH. Why? Because it makes them feel insecure that they will be seen as a Bad guy too, besides Russia. So desperately, in fear, they try to bring us and many around the world who only support Peace, down to their despicable warmongering level of killing millions of innocents as victims of War. This is why these Lefties on here make up fabricated lies of how people like Trump or ourselves on here are Putin Supporters. It's all collusion you see. The Left didn't like Russian and American Astro and Cosmonauts working together in space. They just can't see and DON'T want to see that when it comes to the Ukraine & Russia: TWO WRONGS ARE NOT MAKING A RIGHT... as seen by Zelensky's rejection of PEACE in favour of a Democrat Left's intention of a win (when there is none) and a free bonus of getting something on the side from America. How low can this evil Left go? You've a nerve. You and several other members here have labelled anyone caring about the genocide in Palestine as terrorist supporters and antisemites. Gleefully. Despite every one of us repeatedly condemning the actions of Hamas that fateful day. You've absolutely no leg to stand on.

Nah - terrorist supporters and advocates, and antisemite supporters and advocates, as well as blatant Judeophobes.

No Jew ever did me any harm....

Frank wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 3:31pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 3:21pm: Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 3:21pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 2:09pm: Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 1:49pm: How is he blackmailing Zello? Does Zello depend on Trump and America in any way? by withdrawing military aid of course he depends on the USA ... the US agreed to help them defend against invasion if they gave up their nukes .. Ukraine gave up their nukes, now it's time for the US to live up to it's end of the bargain. Point us to that treaty obligation for the US to defend Ukraine. i gave it to you in the other thread you asked ya dumbarse There is nothing in that memorandum about any obligation by the US or UK to defend Ukraine. They agreed to the following: Respect the signatory's independence and sovereignty in the existing borders (in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act).[9] Refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the signatories to the memorandum, and undertake that none of their weapons will ever be used against these countries, except in cases of self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations. Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine, the Republic of Belarus and Kazakhstan of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind. Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used". Not to use nuclear weapons against any non–nuclear-weapon state party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.[5]: 169–171 [10][11] Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments. https://treaties.un.org/Pages/showDetails.aspx?objid=0800000280338ba9 Which part did you misunderstand, thicko?

not quite dumbarse. .. the actual treaty says they'll provide assistance if they become a victim of aggression OR an object of aggression in which the threat of nukes are used.

The first part of that statement before the word 'OR' is separate to the second part which specifies nukes


It really must suck to be as dumb as you ;D

---

John Smith wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 4:45pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 3:31pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 3:21pm: Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 3:21pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 2:09pm: Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 1:49pm: How is he blackmailing Zello? Does Zello depend on Trump and America in any way? by withdrawing military aid of course he depends on the USA ... the US agreed to help them defend against invasion if they gave up their nukes .. Ukraine gave up their nukes, now it's time for the US to live up to it's end of the bargain. Point us to that treaty obligation for the US to defend Ukraine. i gave it to you in the other thread you asked ya dumbarse There is nothing in that memorandum about any obligation by the US or UK to defend Ukraine. They agreed to the following: Respect the signatory's independence and sovereignty in the existing borders (in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act).[9] Refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the signatories to the memorandum, and undertake that none of their weapons will ever be used against these countries, except in cases of self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations. Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine, the Republic of Belarus and Kazakhstan of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind. Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used". Not to use nuclear weapons against any non–nuclear-weapon state party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.[5]: 169–171 [10][11] Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments. https://treaties.un.org/Pages/showDetails.aspx?objid=0800000280338ba9 Which part did you misunderstand, thicko? not quite dumbarse. .. the actual treaty says they'll provide assistance if they become a victim of aggression OR an object of aggression in which the threat of nukes are used. The first part of that statement before the word 'OR' is separate to the second part which specifies nukes It really must suck to be as dumb as you ;D

Seek security Council action is not an obligation to defend
Stop being stupid on purpose.

There is absolutely nothing in that memorandum about any US OR UK obligation to defend Ukraine. Nothing.

https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/constructive-ambiguity-of-the-budapest-memorandum-at-28-making-sense-of-the-controversial-agreement

Frank wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 4:59pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 4:45pm: Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 3:31pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 3:21pm: Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 3:21pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 2:09pm: Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 1:49pm: How is he blackmailing Zello? Does Zello depend on Trump and America in any way? by withdrawing military aid of course he depends on the USA ... the US agreed to help them defend against invasion if they gave up their nukes .. Ukraine gave up their nukes, now it's time for the US to live up to it's end of the bargain. Point us to that treaty obligation for the US to defend Ukraine. i gave it to you in the other thread you asked ya dumbarse There is nothing in that memorandum about any obligation by the US or UK to defend Ukraine. They agreed to the following: Respect the signatory's independence and sovereignty in the existing borders (in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act).[9] Refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the signatories to the memorandum, and undertake that none of their weapons will ever be used against these countries, except in cases of self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations. Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine, the Republic of Belarus and Kazakhstan of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind. Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used". Not to use nuclear weapons against any non–nuclear-weapon state party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.[5]: 169–171 [10][11] Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments. https://treaties.un.org/Pages/showDetails.aspx?objid=0800000280338ba9 Which part did you misunderstand, thicko? not quite dumbarse. .. the actual treaty says they'll provide assistance if they become a victim of aggression OR an object of aggression in which the threat of nukes are used. The first part of that statement before the word 'OR' is separate to the second part which specifies nukes It really must suck to be as dumb as you ;D Seek security Council action is not an obligation to defend Stop being stupid on purpose. There is absolutely nothing in that memorandum about any US OR UK obligation to defend Ukraine. Nothing. https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/constructive-ambiguity-of-the-budapest-memorandum-at-28-making-sense-of-the-controversial-agreement

"If we agree not to get nuclear weapons, will you agree not to attack or threaten us with them and to come to our aid if someone else does so?"

Having been the only person, in this room so to speak, besides our Yuri of Russian veteran. Of having been to the Ukraine during this war aspect.
I came to the conclusion that if I found the Ukrainians nothing short of savage X-Soviets. Then the Russians were also.
The only difference between the two was my 'Fairy Land' belief via Australia & Media pre-wash cycle, that the Ukrainians were the 'good' guys.
Hell no! They're working over any nation they can get to be scammed, mugged and if necessary - do their dirty work for them (aka NATO, USA, etc).

I would not trust any nation to keep a CEASEFIRE if the Mediating presence held bias and discriminations against it.

At least now. Putin has seen that there is no Democrat bias of Ukraine against it.
Now Putin has no excuses left, under Trump.
The Referee will be very harsh on this match.
He's already laid the law down on Ukraine.
And with his words of 'unbias mediation', Putin knows things are going to be harsh with him... or Russia itself, too.

But in the mind of the serpentine Left.
Trump and anyone on this Forum are ON RUSSIA'S SIDE!!!
Because they are not on their side.

Weak is the opposition who sees only 2 sides to reality.
In this case, there are actually 4 sides, at work here.

Ukraine/Democrats.
Russia.
USA/Republicans
...and I bet you don't know who the 4th is?

And as for Mothra.
You never expressed opposition against Murderers (Hamas) who were ALSO women and children, who wouldn't hesitate in slitting your throat if they thought you had something they wanted.
That's why your anti semitism and pro terrorism shone through.
Virtue signalling the 'poor women and children' cliche fell flat when those women and children showed how murderous they are too. So murderous, they kill even their own kind.

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 8:17pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 4:59pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 4:45pm: Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 3:31pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 3:21pm: Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 3:21pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 2:09pm: Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 1:49pm: How is he blackmailing Zello? Does Zello depend on Trump and America in any way? by withdrawing military aid of course he depends on the USA ... the US agreed to help them defend against invasion if they gave up their nukes .. Ukraine gave up their nukes, now it's time for the US to live up to it's end of the bargain. Point us to that treaty obligation for the US to defend Ukraine. i gave it to you in the other thread you asked ya dumbarse There is nothing in that memorandum about any obligation by the US or UK to defend Ukraine. They agreed to the following: Respect the signatory's independence and sovereignty in the existing borders (in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act).[9] Refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the signatories to the memorandum, and undertake that none of their weapons will ever be used against these countries, except in cases of self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations. Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine, the Republic of Belarus and Kazakhstan of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind. Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used". Not to use nuclear weapons against any non–nuclear-weapon state party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.[5]: 169–171 [10][11] Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments. https://treaties.un.org/Pages/showDetails.aspx?objid=0800000280338ba9 Which part did you misunderstand, thicko? not quite dumbarse. .. the actual treaty says they'll provide assistance if they become a victim of aggression OR an object of aggression in which the threat of nukes are used. The first part of that statement before the word 'OR' is separate to the second part which specifies nukes It really must suck to be as dumb as you ;D Seek security Council action is not an obligation to defend Stop being stupid on purpose. There is absolutely nothing in that memorandum about any US OR UK obligation to defend Ukraine. Nothing. https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/constructive-ambiguity-of-the-budapest-memorandum-at-28-making-sense-of-the-controversial-agreement "If we agree not to get nuclear weapons, will you agree not to attack or threaten us with them and to come to our aid if someone else does so?"

A paper from 1993  by two boffins dated a year before the actual memorandum was signed. The memorandum has noting to say on US or UK obligation to defend Ukraine.

Quote:

The EVIL LEFT

Huge call from team mean and nasty on the right. The right have always been inherently evil in action and intention since foundation.

Dnarever wrote on Mar 6^th, 2025 at 9:44am:

Quote: The EVIL LEFT Huge call from team mean and nasty on the right. The right have always been inherently evil in action and intention since foundation.

since foundation - when was that, duckwit?
Do tell us. 1789?

Frank wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 4:59pm:

Seek security Council action is not an obligation to defend

you think Ukraine wanted the USA to perform a pantomime for them in the even they were attacked? That must be the 'action' they were referring to.

Stay stupid dumbarse ... every one of your claims has been proven false and still you keep digging that hole. :D :D :D

When all hope is gone, all judgement fled the field, and right has fallen - there is nothing left but emptiness...

Tenez Le Droit!!  Hold to what is right! - or in Medieval French nomenclature to suit royalty - hold the place of honour on the field of battle - on the right!  The Prince Of Wales will command the Right wing!!

Nothing to do with the Right side of politics - a later invention of the masses as then represented by the landed gentry anyway - and built for the use and advantage of that landed gentry - as usual - thus demonstrating the clear need for changes in our FORM of democracy and its focus on where the power does, and should, properly lie!!

Did you ever notice, for example, how the poorest person who enters politics suddenly gains accession to the 'privileged classes' and opportunity for self-enrichment? ... and then mostly loses contact with the real world for so very many while succumbing to the syren lure of the easy life and cash for life?

Power To the People - RIGHT ON!!  Who ever thought, all those years ago, that someone like me, a 'square', who would not smoke dope etc, would uphold and use the words of the 'radicals' - anyone who reads my thoughts here knows I am far more radical then they ever imagined... now we must all be stronger than we ever imagined we could be if we are to defeat the party machines.... take back the farms... revert the asylums to asylums instead of making them City Hall ....

Truly the Dorks have awakened a sleeping giant... even if he is a voice crying in the wilderness with youse lot...

John Smith wrote on Mar 6^th, 2025 at 10:46am:

Frank wrote on Mar 5th, 2025 at 4:59pm: Seek security Council action is not an obligation to defend you think Ukraine wanted the USA to perform a pantomime for them in the even they were attacked? That must be the 'action' they were referring to. Stay stupid dumbarse ... every one of your claims has been proven false and still you keep digging that hole. :D :D :D

What Ukraine wants and what is in the actual signed memorandum are not the same thing.

It is obvious even to the dimmest 12 year old. But not to you.