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dammed and diverted - water policy (Read 15065 times)
spacscilib
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Re: dammed and diverted - water policy
Reply #30 - Feb 20th, 2007 at 9:05pm
 
I see 2 separate issues:
1) is this current drought natural as compared to history - and have we done something that may have caused it  - and could we do something constructive to alleviate it?
2) will handing water to the federal gov do anything but re-allocate existing supplies? This is not a market in the economic sense - water cannot be taken from QLD and sold into Sydney.

On point 1, I have noticed in flying from Sydney to Perth just what a desert NSW has become. The desert in SA has more trees than NSW it would seem. Have we broken the precipitation cycle by poor farming practices? Perhaps we need to take a long term outlook and turn these areas back into bush - or forestry of some sort. The pollies are all for big-budget grand solutions - what about a big budget set of very small solutions that would create a long-term resource?
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freediver
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New water bores banned in southern Qld
Reply #31 - May 10th, 2007 at 3:57pm
 
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/New-water-bores-banned-in-southern-Qld/2007/05/10/1178390441315.html

The Queensland government has banned new water bores in parts of the state's drought-hit south.

Queensland Water Minister Craig Wallace said the ban, which takes effect immediately, was needed to help protect underground aquifers which are under stress in the Toowoomba area and Brisbane's south and west.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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mantra
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Re: dammed and diverted - water policy
Reply #32 - May 10th, 2007 at 4:33pm
 
How do they know when bores are under stress?  From what I gather in NSW they just drain them until they are empty - never mind the potential collateral damage to  property or the old established trees that die. 

Our council is going to start draining our borewater this month - and they are requesting inspections of houses to see what sort of damage it is causing - shifting foundations etc. 

Once an aquafer is drained - there is no guarantee that they will refill at any particular time - if ever.  When the last bore is drained and Australia's east coast becomes a desert, what will we do for water if the drought continues?



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freediver
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desalination
Reply #33 - Sep 14th, 2007 at 4:34pm
 
According to this site, desalination costs $0.8 to $2.1 /kL (wholesale) for 'brackish water'. Desalinating seawater costs 3 to 5 times that much. Then you have to add on distribution and disposal costs.

http://www.crcsalinity.com.au/newsletter/SeaNews/dpap0102.htm

For comparison, I think I am paying $1/kL 'retail'. Note that there are still farms using water that would otherwise be available to cities now considering desalination. So effectively you would be using one of the most expensive options available then tipping the water onto the ground.

Suppose the price of water suddenly went up by a factor of 5 or 10 (a lot more for farmers I think). Would we still need new plants?



In response to Sylvia Else on OLO:

If water were to be priced at its marginal cost, that being the cost of desalination, then the water companies (which are proxies for governments) would be receiving incomes far in excess of their costs. The consumers would quite rightly take exception to that.

I wouldn't. I think it is a good idea. It is a good way to raise revenue. Charging anything less is irrational. I personally think they should charge more so that they can retore some more natural flows to rivers. Matching the price to marginal cost or marginal value is not just an 'abstract' outcome of a theoretical free market. It is a rational choice for an provider or consumer considering their only the price and their own interests. Like I said, would you produce something for $2 and sell it for 1$? Should we expect the government to do something equally stupid?

The correct approach to pricing in such a situation is to determine a price that allows supply (rising with price), to match demand (reducing with price) without artificial constraints on consumption, such as water usage restrictions.

The only sensible way to do this is to match marginal cost to price. It does give you a price that allows supply to match demand.



In other words, it's actually too expensive to run all the time, but even more expensive to turn off, so they'll just ahve it running slowly. The cost - an extra $2 per week, corresponds to two tonnes (2 cubic meters) of water per week. The house I am in currently pays about $2 per week in total. That's a pretty expensive insurance policy.

Desalination plant 'an insurance policy'

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Desalination-plant-an-insurance-policy/2007/09/17/1189881384673.html

The $50 million Sydney consumers will pay every year for the city's proposed desalination plant is not dissimilar to an insurance policy, Water Utilities Minister Nathan Rees says.

Details of the operating contract of the plant, which the state government made public on Sunday, reveal "fixed costs" will be levied on Sydney Water by the plant's operator, Blue Water Consortium, regardless of whether the water was needed.

"Now the engineering advice to us at this stage is that the plan would be to have the plant operating, we'll turn it on all the time, operating at different levels of intensity according to requirements."

The plant had to be kept ticking over because the membranes that removed the salt deteriorated more rapidly if there was a turn on, turn off regime, Mr Rees said.

Mr Rees has said the details of the payments were commercial in confidence, but he confirmed that Sydneysiders would pay an extra $2 a week for their water.



Surely water should cost more here. In what way does allowing other users to purchase water 'distort' the market? Trying to stop them from doing so would distort the market.

Murray Valley growers to sue over water

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Murray-Valley-growers-to-sue-over-water/2007/09/18/1189881496453.html

Murray Valley farmers have voted to mount a class action against the federal and state governments for failing to provide them with enough water.

But Victorian premier John Brumby says they do not have a strong case.

The case is expected to centre on an alleged mismanagement of irrigation water by federal and state governments.

Mr Cirillo said a large part of the problem was the water market system and the ability of non-growers to trade in it, thereby distorting it.

"Water's reached an unsustainable level, to buy it at $1,000 a megalitre," Mr Cirillo said.
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« Last Edit: Sep 18th, 2007 at 6:32pm by freediver »  

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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