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EVOLUTION VS RELIGION (Read 74249 times)
tallowood
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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #240 - Nov 29th, 2008 at 8:57pm
 
Darwin wrote on Nov 29th, 2008 at 4:01pm:
And that is how evolution works. genetic variation, acted on by natural selection. Those that are successful will be passed on, over geologic time (without out meddling) that is how new species evolve.

And you are an idiot freediver, did not get my point at all! What was a recessive gene is now the dominant, much more important than a sport like a redhead with no redheaded ancestors.

Mutation is not really needed to explain evolution. Genetic variability and natural selection are enough.


Hey Datwin, calling people names doesn't help your argumentation, in fact it lessens it.
I agree that mutation is not really needed to explain evolution but it helps to explain variability of genetic pool.

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easel
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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #241 - Nov 30th, 2008 at 1:17am
 
I'm not totally convinced of evolution, though I am convinced of mutation, some people consider them the same thing.

What about that fish they caught which they thought was extinct, and had fossils dating back 75 million odd years, WHICH WAS COMPLETELY UNCHANGED FOR ALL OF THIS TIME? It didn't evolve for millions of years.

What about trees that don't change for millions of years, same deal as the fish.

Why can a black person breed with a yellow person, a white person etc etc etc.

Why can a lion and a tiger breed?

Why can a horse and a donkey breed?

Anyway, if evolution is true, humans are going to start going backwards. We marry and mate for money, status etc now, rather than genetic preference.

So yeah, look forward to returning to ape man.
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tallowood
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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #242 - Nov 30th, 2008 at 8:06am
 
Quote:
I'm not totally convinced of evolution, though I am convinced of mutation, some people consider them the same thing.


Who consider them the same thing. Can you name the names?


Quote:
What about that fish they caught which they thought was extinct, and had fossils dating back 75 million odd years, WHICH WAS COMPLETELY UNCHANGED FOR ALL OF THIS TIME? It didn't evolve for millions of years.

What about trees that don't change for millions of years, same deal as the fish.


They did evolve. That's why there are so many different kinds of fish and trees now.



Quote:
Why can a black person breed with a yellow person, a white person etc etc etc.

Why can a lion and a tiger breed?

Why can a horse and a donkey breed?


They did not evolve to much apart. You can see the same with close related trees and bushes.



Quote:
Anyway, if evolution is true, humans are going to start going backwards. We marry and mate for money, status etc now, rather than genetic preference.

So yeah, look forward to returning to ape man.


Muslim terrorists are there already.


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muso
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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #243 - Nov 30th, 2008 at 8:45am
 
All terrorists are there already.

By the way Easel, if you take the average 21st century office administrator or accountant and send him back to the Neolithic period to fend for himself, we'd soon see* who is best adapted to survive.

* I always get confused with tenses in hypothetical time-travel cases.  Wink
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tallowood
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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #244 - Nov 30th, 2008 at 9:36am
 
muso wrote on Nov 30th, 2008 at 8:45am:
All terrorists are there already.

....

* I always get confused with tenses in hypothetical time-travel cases.  Wink



There are disproportionately more muslim terrorists there then any others.

....

It is "grandmother paradox".
Quote:
The grandmother paradox does not occur when the subject and the person being questioned are both attempting to narrate a story. During these times, the Universe is safe from the Paradox



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freediver
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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #245 - Nov 30th, 2008 at 7:36pm
 
Quote:
And that is how evolution works. genetic variation, acted on by natural selection.


That is how natural selection works. Evolution involves a lot of extra theories which are not scientific.

Quote:
much more important than a sport like a redhead with no redheaded ancestors.


A sport? What are you talking about?

Quote:
Mutation is not really needed to explain evolution. Genetic variability and natural selection are enough.


Wrong. Find me an academic natural historian who agrees with you on that. Or do you subscribe to freediver's theory of sufficient genetic potential?

Quote:
Anyway, if evolution is true, humans are going to start going backwards.


Not really. You could wipe out 99% of the human race without losing significant genetic information. We may be in for tough times, but our genes will catch up pretty quickly if they have to. If anything they are getting tougher. You need a good immune system to survive a plague of your own species. Adapting to living among such concentrated germ sources was critical to our ability to form complex societies. It didn't happen overnight. It took a long time.
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Intelligent Design on Trial
Reply #246 - Nov 30th, 2008 at 7:51pm
 
There is an interesting show on SBS tonight at 8:30 called Intelligent Design on Trial.
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Darwin
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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #247 - Dec 1st, 2008 at 11:05am
 
A sport? You don't know what a genetic sport is? Off to wiki with you!
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Darwin
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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #248 - Dec 1st, 2008 at 11:08am
 
easel wrote on Nov 30th, 2008 at 1:17am:
Anyway, if evolution is true, humans are going to start going backwards. We marry and mate for money, status etc now, rather than genetic preference.

So yeah, look forward to returning to ape man.


So do animals in the wild. Status in the pack. Those who make a lot of money probably have more smarts and cunning than those who just plod, etc.

We, Homo sapiens, is classified as a great ape. We share 97% genetic similarity with chimps.
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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #249 - Dec 2nd, 2008 at 9:45am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 30th, 2008 at 7:36pm:
That is how natural selection works. Evolution involves a lot of extra theories which are not scientific.



FD,

In all other matters you seem to take a meticulously logical attitude, yet in the case of evolution, it's almost as if you undergo a personality change.

I studied Geology up to second year university and at that time, they insisted that we do detailed methodical drawings of fossils. I remember in particular, the adaptation of ammonites with their convoluted suture lines which showed adaptation to deeper water environments, and how by the Cretaceous period, the shapes of the ammonites had evolved into completely different forms to suit changing conditions.  

We can trace whole sequences of modern animals, including man all the way from the beginning of the Eocene, and in the case of crocodiles - even earlier.

Tell me, do you also believe that the Earth is only 8000 years old?
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freediver
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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #250 - Dec 2nd, 2008 at 11:07am
 
Muso, I am taking a very logical approach to this. None of what you posted seems to have anything to do with my argument that evolution is not a scientific theory.
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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #251 - Dec 2nd, 2008 at 2:29pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 2nd, 2008 at 11:07am:
Muso, I am taking a very logical approach to this. None of what you posted seems to have anything to do with my argument that evolution is not a scientific theory.


How do you understand the term "Evolution"?

Are you talking about evolution, or the appearance of life on Earth? - because they are totally separate things.
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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #252 - Dec 2nd, 2008 at 2:39pm
 
I use the terms natural selection and evolution to distinguish the scientific and non-scientific theories. This also happens to coincide with the general use of the two terms. Basically, natural selection applies to traits that are already pesent. Evolution includes everything beyond that, such as the creation of new traits, beneficial mutation, universal common ancestry, the descent of man from apes, natural history etc.

To clarify the terminology, evolution is usually used to refer to a far broader set of theroies, both scientific and non-scientific. Natural selection is conveniently limited to the scientific aspects. Some people use micro and macro evolution to make the same distinction, but I find those terms less useful.
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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #253 - Dec 2nd, 2008 at 2:54pm
 
It is pointless for me to go any further until I get a grasp of what you do and don't accept.

If I was to say for example that the Cretaceous Period was from approximately 144 to 65 Million Years Ago, and that the Solar System has an age of approximately 4.5 billion years, are they statements that you would agree with?

If not, I don't see the point in continuing my contribution to this thread.
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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #254 - Dec 2nd, 2008 at 3:03pm
 
I see what you're getting at. It has nothing to do with whether the theory is wrong or right. It's just about whether it is scientific. That's all.
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