Australian Politics Forum - EVOLUTION VS RELIGION

Soren

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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #375 - Jul 24^th, 2010 at 7:32pm

Ziggy wrote on Jul 24^th, 2010 at 1:19pm:

Creationists offer nothing of value to science other than I suppose an opportunity to bolster science in the public domain- much to their chagrin..

In most cases, you are right.

But what religion does offer to science is imagination. Not every religious utterance is imaginative, not even most. But the creative imagination is a strong aspect of religion. Literature and the arts in general have grown out of a religious, not a scientific, engagemnet with the world.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48858 At my desk.	Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION Reply #376 - Jul 24^th, 2010 at 7:37pm Most of the great scientists of history were religious.
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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 103610 Melbourne Gender:	Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION Reply #377 - Jul 24^th, 2010 at 8:22pm freediver wrote on Jul 24^th, 2010 at 7:37pm: Most of the great scientists of history were religious. Hi Freediver, Do you have any evidence for this claim?
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muso

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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #378 - Jul 24^th, 2010 at 8:25pm

freediver wrote on Jul 24^th, 2010 at 7:37pm:

Most of the great scientists of history were religious.

Absolutely no question of it - and when it comes to 20th century Biologists at least, even the religious among them accept Evolutionary theory as the dominant paradigm.

Even Pope John Paul II stated that the conclusions reached by scientific disciplines cannot be in contradiction with divine Revelation, then proceeded to accept the scientific conclusion that evolution is a well-established theory.

Quote:

The evolution of organisms is beyond reasonable doubt, so that the theory of evolution is accepted in this respect with the same certainty that we attribute to Copernicus's heliocentric theory or the molecular composition of matter.

J. Ayala Professor of Biological sciences and Philosophy at the University of California
(he is also a devout Catholic)

From what I understand, a majority of biologists worldwide have some religious leanings.

Physicists are the least religious. I guess you'll ask me to provide a source for that. It's something I read a few years back, but I could try Googling it.

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Bobby.

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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #379 - Jul 24^th, 2010 at 8:41pm

Quote:

Even Pope John Paul II stated that the conclusions reached by scientific disciplines cannot be in contradiction with divine Revelation, then proceeded to accept the scientific conclusion that evolution is a well-established theory.

I thought the Pope believed that dinosaurs & children were around at
the same time?
How old does the Bible say the world is?
5,000 years?

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muso

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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #380 - Jul 24^th, 2010 at 9:03pm

Bobby. wrote on Jul 24^th, 2010 at 8:41pm:

Quote:

Even Pope John Paul II stated that the conclusions reached by scientific disciplines cannot be in contradiction with divine Revelation, then proceeded to accept the scientific conclusion that evolution is a well-established theory.

I thought the Pope believed that dinosaurs & children were around at
the same time?
How old does the Bible say the world is?
5,000 years?

It doesn't, and he didn't.

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 103610 Melbourne Gender:	Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION Reply #381 - Jul 25^th, 2010 at 2:11am Muso. Quote: It doesn't, and he didn't. OK - I admit defeat. The guy with the long beard peering through the clouds did it. Also -another guy with a beard gave me a new bicycle for Xmas.
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Bobby.

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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #382 - Jul 25^th, 2010 at 2:19am

muso wrote on Jul 24^th, 2010 at 8:25pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 24^th, 2010 at 7:37pm:

Most of the great scientists of history were religious.

Absolutely no question of it - and when it comes to 20th century Biologists at least, even the religious among them accept Evolutionary theory as the dominant paradigm.

Even Pope John Paul II stated that the conclusions reached by scientific disciplines cannot be in contradiction with divine Revelation, then proceeded to accept the scientific conclusion that evolution is a well-established theory.

Quote:

The evolution of organisms is beyond reasonable doubt, so that the theory of evolution is accepted in this respect with the same certainty that we attribute to Copernicus's heliocentric theory or the molecular composition of matter.

J. Ayala Professor of Biological sciences and Philosophy at the University of California
(he is also a devout Catholic)

From what I understand, a majority of biologists worldwide have some religious leanings.

Physicists are the least religious. I guess you'll ask me to provide a source for that. It's something I read a few years back, but I could try Googling it.

Muso - you've mentioned a couple of names.
That does not prove that:
Quote:

Most of the great scientists of history were religious

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muso

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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #383 - Jul 25^th, 2010 at 8:54am

Bobby. wrote on Jul 25^th, 2010 at 2:19am:

Muso - you've mentioned a couple of names.
That does not prove that:
Quote:

Most of the great scientists of history were religious

Define what you mean by religious Grin

(put that dictionary away LOL)

Religious doesn't imply belief in a personal god. Deists can be described as religious, even though most of them don't actually worship.

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« Last Edit: Jul 25^th, 2010 at 9:00am by muso »

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muso

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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #384 - Jul 25^th, 2010 at 8:59am

Bobby. wrote on Jul 25^th, 2010 at 2:11am:

Muso.
Quote:

It doesn't, and he didn't.

OK - I admit defeat.
The guy with the long beard peering through the clouds did it.

Also -another guy with a beard gave me a new bicycle for Xmas.

What are you talking about? I was talking about the fact that the last Pope validated evolutionary theory.

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freediver

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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #385 - Jul 25^th, 2010 at 9:58am

Bobby. wrote on Jul 24^th, 2010 at 8:22pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 24^th, 2010 at 7:37pm:

Most of the great scientists of history were religious.

Hi Freediver,
Do you have any evidence for this claim?

See the table:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/evolution/christian-foundation-science.html

Quote:

The evolution of organisms is beyond reasonable doubt, so that the theory of evolution is accepted in this respect with the same certainty that we attribute to Copernicus's heliocentric theory or the molecular composition of matter

.

This may be a subtle joke Muso. None of those theories are certain. Heliocentrism is wrong, though the difference is largely technical. We currently have two competing theories regarding the nature of matter - particle and wave, both of which appear to be valid under certain circumstances. I don't think the molecular composition of matter is even a 'fundamental' theory. He was probably refering to the periodic table. These theories are only correct in the sense that they are a rough but not exactly correct approximation to what is going on. These hint at the sort of certainty you expect from laymen (or engineers) who are happy to accept an outdated theory because it is close enough for their purposes.

Then again, I wouldn't necessarily expect a biologist to understand this. Biology is about as close as you can get to being an arts student while still studying a 'pure' science. Not that that is a bad thing. The girls definitely make up for it. He also does not address whether evolution is a scientific theory. That is after all what we are debating at the moment - not whether evolution is correct.

Quote:

Physicists are the least religious. I guess you'll ask me to provide a source for that. It's something I read a few years back, but I could try Googling it.

You are one step ahead of me Muso.

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Bobby.

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Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION
Reply #386 - Jul 25^th, 2010 at 10:22am

You guys need to do some reading & then come back to this topic. e.g.

Richard Dawkins
Quote:

“The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity”

See:
http://bevets.com/equotesd3.htm

http://thinkexist.com/quotation/the_theory_of_evolution_by_cumulative_natural/180152.html

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/r/richard_dawkins.html

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48858 At my desk.	Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION Reply #387 - Jul 25^th, 2010 at 10:44am So everyone else is ignorant except you bobby? We only say these things because we haven't been exposed to the concepts that you have, not because we disagree with them? Perhaps bobby, you should read the thread (or at least recent posts) before responding and check what we are actually discussing.
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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 103610 Melbourne Gender:	Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION Reply #388 - Jul 25^th, 2010 at 10:50am Freediver. Quote: So everyone else is ignorant except you bobby? I am saying that the people here need to read a bit more before giving advice on such a complicated topic.
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48858 At my desk.	Re: EVOLUTION VS RELIGION Reply #389 - Jul 25^th, 2010 at 10:54am Perhaps it is you that needs to read more. After all it is you who is posting here but contributing nothing.
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