Rubbish- you posted one article regarding fish and pain. If there are reams of evidence that these mammals should be somehow spared because of their magical properties then post it. You can't because there isn't any


So how did you reach this wonderful state of enlightenment - years of research on the subject? It looks like you haven't even read this thread. I did post an article on this subject - by Dr Walter Starck. Freediver and myself have also been refering to it in many of our posts.

Here's some more:

Whale and dolphin intelligence is confirmed


A new scientific paper published in an international journal sheds light on the previously disputed intelligence of whales and dolphins

Whales and Dolphins are indeed highly intelligent, as has long been believed – this is the conclusion of a new paper from Mark Simmonds, International Director of Science for WDCS, the Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society. The research stands in stark contrast to some recent reports that such animals fail to exhibit intelligence.

In his paper, Into the Brains of Whales, published this month in Applied Animal Behaviour Science, Simmonds puts forward a compelling argument for the highly developed intelligence of both whales and dolphins. He asserts that, rather than brain anatomy or size, which is sometimes used to indicate cognitive ability, more accurate indicators of intelligence can be found in behaviour and social structures.

One such indicator is that of self-awareness. Bottlenose dolphins have been shown to be able to recognise themselves in a mirror, a behaviour that until recently has only been recorded in humans and great apes. Similarly, tool use can be seen as a mark of intelligence. In a masterstroke of innovation, some Indo-Pacific bottlenose dolphins carry sponges on the ends of their beaks to protect them when foraging for food on the sea bed.

Evidence of the typically human emotions, grief, parental love and joy, as well as the existence of complex social interactions and structures, are further indicators of the highly developed intelligence of whales and dolphins. In one example, despite the risk of dehydration, stranding and shark attack, a group of false killer whales floated for 3 days in the shallows of the straits of Florida, USA to protect an injured male. Such was their cohesion and reliance upon the group, individuals became agitated when rescuers tried to separate them, calming only when reunited.

The potential impacts of threats such as whaling, pollution and fishing nets on such highly intelligent animals, may be far greater and wider ranging than is currently thought. In drastically reducing populations, whalers may have destroyed not just numerous individuals, but also the cultural knowledge they had relating to exploitation of certain habitats and areas, ultimately altering the evolution of the species.

Simmonds comments. ‘It is the behaviour of animals that tells us about their mental capacities, not brain size or anatomy. Anyone who has interacted with dolphins usually swiftly and intuitively realises that they are meeting intelligent, emotional and extraordinary animals’.

In his paper he concludes. "Our relationship with these animals therefore needs to move to a new paradigm recognising these animals as unique individuals, communities, societies and cultures and valuing them as such"

Into the Brains of Whales by Mark Peter Simmonds was published this month in the Journal of Applied Animal Behaviour Science, 100 (2006) 103-116 and a penultimate draft is available at www.wdcs.org/publications. The published paper can be purchased at www.sciencedirect.com for a charge of $30.

Source:WDCS

Wikipedia gives a good summary on cetacian intelligence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetacean_intelligence

They rate impressively in areas of brain size, behaviour, pod characteristics, complex play, creative behaviour, use of tools, communication self awareness and comparative cognition.

No I draw the line at dolphins and whales.

Why only cetaceans? (The apes line has already been covered by FD)

If the mark of intelligence is your only defining criteria, then you must support arguments against harvesting all animals that display some level of intelligence.

If you want to discuss want I think about harvesting other species I'm happy to do so.

I'm interested to discuss why you think cetaceans deserve special a special category

These abilities include mirror self-recognition, the comprehension of artificial, symbol-based communication systems and abstract concepts, and the learning and intergenerational transmission of behaviors that have been described as cultural.

So if these attributes are found in other species in future studies- say Blue Groper, then you would advocate a ban on them too?

IQSRLOW wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2008 at 5:39pm:



Come off it. Fish are nowhere near that advanced. As the article I put up on fish and pain shows they don't have anything resembling the brain structures that would indicate conciousness.

Pigs feel pain, they have complex social structures and they exhibit intelligence- Should bacon be banned?