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Why we should allow whaling (Read 51831 times)
freediver
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Why we should allow whaling
Jan 11th, 2007 at 11:16am
 
http://ozpolitic.com/sustainability-party/why-allow-whaling.html

The continued effort to prevent commercial whaling is a strategic blunder for the environmental movement. It represents a victory of emotional response over practical considerations and of 'cute and cuddly' over sustainability.

One of my first forays into Australian politics was the promotion of marine parks as fisheries management tools. This is something that I am still heavily involved with. One of the common criticisms I heard was that marine parks were a 'foot in the door' for the 'greenies.' This even came from people who claimed to be 'the real environmentalists.' It came across as a rather absurd argument. Sure there are some animal liberationists who want to ban recreational fishing, but to assume they could have any political power over fishermen is just rediculous. Furthermore to base your political strategy around fear of such an unlikely outcome is more likely to make it come true. If you refuse to self regulate then someone else will take the opportunity to do it for you next time there is a crisis.

Well, that's what the commercial whaling industry did. They formed the IWC to manage commercial whaling in a sustainable manner and it was promptly taken over by people who have no interest at all in sustainable harvests. All they will be satisfied with is a complete ban on commercial whaling. Occasionally you will hear lip service given to sustainability, but usually with the insistance that any whaling is inherently unsustainable. Such assertions are never backed up with evidence.

So, how much whaling is sustainable? It's hard to tell, but if the population of a species continues to rise despite whaling (as is currently the case) then you can be sure that it is sustainable. Maybe they could get more whales in the long run if they let the population continue to rise for a few more years, but surely we can leave those decisions to the whaling industry, given that they have shown their ability to self regulate by setting up the IWC.

Whales are not the only example of emotional appeal winning over common sense. For a long time it was nearly impossible to purchase kangaroo meat in the supermarket. This came about through protests a number of years ago when it first hit the shelves. This may not seem as bad as using the law to impose your will, but the outcome was far worse for our environment. Destroying the kangaroo meat industry reinforces the beef industry in Australia, which does enourmous ecological damage. Cattle just aren't suited to our fragile soils. Their hard hooves turn it to dust and they rip grass out by the roots. They destroy fragile riparian ecosystems. They emit methane, a powerful greenhouse gas. Fortunately, kangaroo meat is making it's way back onto the shelves, but it is stil illegal to import it into California. Apparently several decades ago a senator's wife heard from a friend that kangaroos are endangered (lol), and insisted that her husband pass a law banning the importation of kangaroo meat. Of course, she had the support of local environmentalists.

If you think that Australia is now more sensible in it's handling of native animals, think again. It is still illegal to kill brushtail possums. Brushtail possums are four times as dense in the urban environment as they are in the wild. They are basically native rats, except that people tolerate and even encourage them through feeding. They carry several nasty diseases, for example they are the principle carriers of Ross River Fever with something like 70% of them testing positive. They damage ceilings. They are carnivourous and eat small animals and bird eggs. Combine this with the introduction of cats and aggressive bird species from overseas (helped along by the urban environment) and it is no wonder that avian biodiversity is so low in the suburbs. Every opportunity to sustainably harvest a wild source of food that we pass up reinforces the role of commercial agriculture (chemicals, hormones, transport, fossil fuels) in our lives.

Anyway, back to the whales. While environmentalists continue to show, through successful political campaigns, that they will not stop at sustainability and that environmentalism is on a continuum with animal rights, the movement will continue to instill fear in average Australians. Even to the extent that they will oppose any environmental agenda on principle regardless of whether it harms themselves. I've seen this with my own eyes. It is irrational and frustrating, just like a complete ban on commercial whaling.

http://ozpolitic.com/sustainability-party/why-allow-whaling.html
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« Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2008 at 2:45pm by freediver »  

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mantra
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Re: Why we should allow whaling
Reply #1 - Jan 16th, 2007 at 4:31pm
 
I have to disagree.  Whales have decreased in numbers over the years and many species would have become extinct if we hadn't had various bans over the years.  They may not be on the verge of extinction but they are threatened.

They have to cope with all sorts of catastrophic events, such as oil spills, the US underwater sonic booms, reduced feeding due to overfishing and many other hazards.

As they are the oldest mammal in existence we need to protect them from whaling - if nothing else because the hunters use such cruel and inhumane methods of killing them.
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freediver
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Re: Why we should allow whaling
Reply #2 - Jan 17th, 2007 at 9:00am
 
I am going to put this up as an article. Do you mind if I include your post at the bottom?

Quote:
Whales have decreased in numbers over the years and many species would have become extinct if we hadn't had various bans over the years.


It was the whaling industry itself that introduced those bans. Now many species are starting to go up in numbers very quickly.

Quote:
They have to cope with all sorts of catastrophic events, such as oil spills, the US underwater sonic booms, reduced feeding due to overfishing and many other hazards.


I'd say that whaling is by far the biggest impact on their numbers.

Quote:
if nothing else because the hunters use such cruel and inhumane methods of killing them


I use the same method to catch fish. If it was about cruelty we would be looking at intensive factory farming, not wild caught animals.
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mantra
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Re: Why we should allow whaling
Reply #3 - Jan 21st, 2007 at 4:59pm
 
Quote:
[[I use the same method to catch fish. If it was about cruelty we would be looking at intensive factory farming not wild caught animals]].


Does it take you up to an hour to kill a fish Freediver?  Do you stab it once - then 5 minutes later when it's not dead - stab it again - or force little firecrackers inside it - to make it die quicker?  Then for the final kill - a few more slashes of a lampoon.

I'm sure you don't.  It can't be compared.
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freediver
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Re: Why we should allow whaling
Reply #4 - Jan 21st, 2007 at 5:03pm
 
Quote:
Does it take you up to an hour to kill a fish Freediver?


It depends on the size of the fish. I've never taken that long, but it often takes longer.

Quote:
Do you stab it once - then 5 minutes later when it's not dead - stab it again -


Something like that. They can be rather difficult to kill, and you can never tell when they are actually dead.

Quote:
It can't be compared.


Isn't that what you just did?
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freediver
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anti whaling activists 'missing'
Reply #5 - Feb 9th, 2007 at 1:24pm
 
Two anti whaling activists in an inflatable boat have gone missing in poor visibility after a confrontation between sea shepherd and a Japanese whaling boat in southern waters. One of the activists is from Perth, the other from the US. They lost radio contact, so no-one is sure whether they are OK, though they are prepared for the conditions. The whaling boat is helping to look for them.
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mantra
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Re: Why we should allow whaling
Reply #6 - Feb 14th, 2007 at 4:06pm
 
I think they were picked up by the Japanese a couple of days ago, but this shouldn't have happened.

Our gutless government needs to stand up to this illegal whaling in our waters, but they won't because of the new joint military exercises the Japanese will be doing in Australia shortly.

Meanwhile Japan is promoting whale meat to their population - who could care less about it and have shown no previous interest in eating whale meat.  This means that the Japanese intend to continue, and no doubt increase their intake of whales.

You have to wonder with the lack of interest in eating whale meat in Japan, why they are going to such great lengths to encourage the national marketing of it.
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Re: Why we should allow whaling
Reply #7 - Feb 14th, 2007 at 8:43pm
 
I'm with you all the way on this one freediver.
Though whaling should be FORCEFULLY RESTRICTED in the numbers caught per annum.
Perhaps the same kind of system could be adopted for the whaling industry as what is for the nuclear
programs, as WHALING INSPECTORS.
I myself am very concerned about Australian native animals, though i am definately not an environMENTAList.  When certain Species breed far too many i support culling to give the other species a chance. I condone the complete annhilation of introduced feral species and i even take part in this.
Nothing pisses me off more than finding a half eaten native creature should i come across one.
I am also a recreational fisherman, and mantra, the most humane way to kill a fish is to either cut the fish's head off just behind the head real quickly  or  smash its head with a hammer.  may i suggest for whaling, a large guillotine in the back of the ship.
And for those greenie bastards who rammed that ship, which, had a legal right to be there, had i been the captain of the whaling vessel i would have come about,full speed ahead and rammed that greenie pirate ship amidships.
Make a RAINBOW WARRIOR out of it!
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freediver
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Re: Why we should allow whaling
Reply #8 - Feb 15th, 2007 at 9:56am
 
Well apparently that's what they did - ram the Sea Shepherd ship, then issue a distress signal. Sea Shepherd responded by threatening them with a 'steel enema.' Why would an enema be their first choice for imagery?
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Re: Why we should allow whaling
Reply #9 - Feb 19th, 2007 at 9:23am
 
I do condone the actions of the Sea Shepherd.  If the Australian government had any guts they would be overseeing the Japanese whalers and redirecting them to the territories where their whaling was permitted and also arresting them for their illegal activities - in exactly the same way we do with the Indonesians.

Whaling - even though I object to it - obviously is going to continue, but they do need to find a more humane way of doing it.  Personally I hate fishing - I think it's a very cruel sport.  Fair enough if you could scoop them up in a net and give them a direct hit on the head or a beheading, to reduce their suffering - it might be more tolerable.

Meanwhile - we have the Japanese telling the world that culling whales is necessary for "research" - yet at the same time promoting the consumption of whale meat as a culinary delight to their citizens.
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Re: Why we should allow whaling
Reply #10 - Feb 19th, 2007 at 9:35am
 
It's not the same as with the indonesians. Our claims to our northern waters are recognised under international law. Our claims to the no whaling zone in the southern waters are not recognised under international law and to try to enforce it would essentially be an act of war.
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Re: Why we should allow whaling
Reply #11 - Feb 19th, 2007 at 10:11am
 
I have to disagree freediver - here's an article from the Sea Shepherd site, but there are other substantive articles indicating that the Japanese are illegally whaling and fishing in our waters:

Quote:
On February 10th, Australian authorities boarded and apprehended three Indonesian fishing vessels near Raine Island, 600 kilometers north of Cairns. The seizure on the Northeast coast of Australia resulted in 27 crewmembers taken into custody and the boats sunk at sea.

Raine Island is the world's largest remaining rookery for the vulnerable green turtle and it is a protected, no-go zone. A spokesman for the Federal Fisheries Minister Eric Abetz couldn't say whether turtle meat was found on board the boats. Queensland's Environment Minister Desley Boyle says it's disturbing news, "Only this week, we had declared this to be the year of the turtle. It is one of the few breeding sites left." A search is continuing for other illegal fishing boats believed to be in the area.

Sea Shepherd Conservation Society is very supportive of Australia’s aggressive policy towards illegal fishing, but the Society remains concerned that Australia is practicing a double standard in regard to Japanese fishing and whaling operations.

Japanese tuna vessels are taking tens of millions of dollars worth of tuna from Australian waters and Japanese whalers are illegally killing piked (minke) and fin whales in the Australian Antarctic Territory without any measures being taken to intervene against these illegal practices.

The message that Australia is sending is that they will target poor nations while alternatively allowing rich trading partners to plunder Australian resources.

Sea Shepherd urges Australia to apply marine conservation laws without prejudice and to treat Japanese poachers in the same manner that they treat Indonesian poachers


http://www.seashepherd.org/news/media_060213_1.html
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freediver
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Re: Why we should allow whaling
Reply #12 - Feb 19th, 2007 at 10:20am
 
Sure, they are breaking Australian law, but they are not Australian and they are not in Australia, or in waters recognised by the international community as falling under our jurisdiction. I suggest you look for a source that has less of an interest in whaling and more of an itnerest in law, or at least neutrality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Antarctic_Territory

As Australia is part of the Antarctic Treaty System, under its provisions it makes no effort to assert true national sovereignty over its claimed Antarctic territory.

I think it has even less rights over the waters involved.
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Re: Why we should allow whaling
Reply #13 - Feb 21st, 2007 at 4:34pm
 
mantra writes "As they are the oldest mammal in existence we need to protect them from whaling".
The oldest mammel eh? I don't think you're on the right website. Whales are the same age as everything else - about 6000 years. Read your bible.
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Re: Why we should allow whaling
Reply #14 - Feb 21st, 2007 at 10:28pm
 
Yeah and jesus walked on water!  Smiley
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Total anti-marxist and anti-left wing. The Right is Right.&&&&&&
 
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