Australian Politics Forum - Is Islam inherently violent?

zoso Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 512	Re: Islam, violence and the association fallacy Reply #180 - May 1^st, 2007 at 10:40am Quote: No where are non Muslims the agressors. cough Iraq cough Afghanistan cough Religion is just a simpletons excuse, even those leading the Islamist movement know this and use it to their advantage. The causes of all this violence, as freediver correctly points out, are political.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: Islam, violence and the association fallacy Reply #181 - May 1^st, 2007 at 10:52am JJJ, it is not a binary choice and an election is never a referendum on a single issue. They are just making sure they are heard, that's all
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JJJ(Guest)

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Re: Islam, violence and the association fallacy
Reply #182 - May 1^st, 2007 at 11:00am

freediver wrote on May 1^st, 2007 at 10:52am:

JJJ, it is not a binary choice and an election is never a referendum on a single issue. They are just making sure they are heard, that's all

isn't that the point of an election? to make sure that everyone's opinions are heard?

i still don't see why the secular party would hold a protest, the pro-Islamic party won the election fair & square. it's kind of like the labour party protesting when the liberals won, it just doesn't make sense.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: Islam, violence and the association fallacy Reply #183 - May 1^st, 2007 at 11:02am It's like people protesting about global warming, even though the coalition won the last election.
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JJJ(Guest)

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Re: Islam, violence and the association fallacy
Reply #184 - May 1^st, 2007 at 11:07am

freediver wrote on May 1^st, 2007 at 11:02am:

It's like people protesting about global warming, even though the coalition won the last election.

No that's different, that would be a protest against the government's policy on global warming, not on the Coalitions right to be in office.

the protest in Turkey was opposition to the pro-Islamic party being elected into office rather than a protest about their policies. but the election result already tells us about the majority of the Turkish population want them in power, so it suggests to me that the protestors were a minority that just couldn't hack losing the election.

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freediver

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Re: Islam, violence and the association fallacy
Reply #185 - May 1^st, 2007 at 11:13am

I doubt that is entirely true, but that sort of thing does seem to happen in South America a lot also. I think it is common in unstable democracies.

Check the free speech thread:

http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1177900082/5#5

The president was clearly not elected on the basis of a pro-islamic agenda. There is a 'suspician' that he wants to dismantle the secular system.

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« Last Edit: May 2^nd, 2007 at 11:07am by freediver »

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freediver

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Re: Islam, violence and the association fallacy
Reply #186 - May 8^th, 2007 at 4:51pm

An interesting parallel to this is the caste system in India. While this appears to have a religious basis, it cannot be derived directly from their holy books. It may have arisen from the interaction between invading groups and locals and then worked itself into 'religious' ideology over the centuries.

http://adaniel.tripod.com/origin.htm

So, does Hinduism inevitably lead to opression, or is this just another association fallacy? Did the religion facilitate the maintenance of social divisions long after the invasions, or vice versa?

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Sprintcyclist

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Classis muslim confusion
Reply #187 - Sep 20^th, 2007 at 9:46am

This is part of an article from one of the bali terrorists who now regrets his actions.
Unlike his own brother who is also a terrorist there who still actively support terrorism to spread muslim beliefs.

"Imron said he had been writing a book about his ideas and telling family, friends and others he was wrong to carry out the attacks.

He said he prepares cassettes for his family's Islamic school in East Java spreading the anti-terrorism message.

That's in direct competition with Mukhlas who spends his time disseminating the pro-terror message.

"That is true. Mukhlas and I both send letters and cassettes to al-Islam (school)," he said.
"It's a tough thing to deal with personally and tough for the teachers there because I ask the students to follow my example while Mukhlas calls them to carry out violent jihad.

"We will have to wait and see who wins this battle for influence."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22449935-12377,00.html

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: Classis muslim confusion Reply #188 - Sep 20^th, 2007 at 11:15am Very interesting. Which one do you think is confused?
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Re: Classis muslim confusion
Reply #189 - Sep 20^th, 2007 at 12:10pm

You know my thoughts from way back freediver.

I guess, neither is confused, both are sure of what they do, or now do.

You'ld think, if violence was incorrect under the koran, it'ld be easy for other muslims to "teach" the terrorists ?

How/why does bali let people openly support terrorism ?
I'll never go there. Voting with my tourists dollar

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: Classis muslim confusion Reply #190 - Sep 20^th, 2007 at 12:17pm Can you come up with any quotes from the Bible against say, invading Iraq?
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Re: Classis muslim confusion
Reply #191 - Sep 20^th, 2007 at 12:35pm

probably not. Would be weird quote - "Do not invade XXXX"
you are meaning the new testament mainly ?

there are prophecies in the old testament and book of Revelation about wars/disruption/antichrist coming from specific areas. hard to really state what country.
Often prophecies are .... vague, open to interpretation.

I am reasonably sure there are no directives in the new testament TO invade any country/area.
There are some in the old testamant, those applied to specific areas for specific times. ie, are not an ongoing recommendation.

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: Classis muslim confusion Reply #192 - Sep 20^th, 2007 at 12:38pm So, you can't come up with a Bible quote against killing 100000 Iraqis? It's probably the same situation with the Koran. Ultimately, it boils down to politics, not religion.
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Online OzPolitic Posts: 40683 Gender:	Re: Classis muslim confusion Reply #193 - Sep 20^th, 2007 at 12:45pm you've lost me there freediver. "while Mukhlas calls them to carry out violent jihad. " refers to a koran order. is a directive to kill. I can't think of a similar quote from the new testamant to attack and kill all nonchristians.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: Classis muslim confusion Reply #194 - Sep 20^th, 2007 at 12:47pm It would help if you quoted the Koran. I believe you are misrepresenting the actual content.
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