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Is Islam inherently violent? (Read 86423 times)
Sprintcyclist
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Re: Is Islam inherently violent?
Reply #225 - Feb 17th, 2008 at 7:00pm
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxk5AAA5FbI&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WHdWgES-Uw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byQD8VPhvdM&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReQWikKf3n4&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKUoxbR9mwA&feature=related
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Re: Is Islam inherently violent?
Reply #226 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 6:30am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 17th, 2008 at 7:00pm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4&feature=related


So far I've listened to the first one (I've seen some before) and there's no surprise there. In contrast to the British Mullah, who is an extremist, note this article from the SMH in 2002:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/11/02/1036027087623.html

Quote:
Leaders of Australia's 300,000-strong Muslim community are banding together to publicly condemn terrorist attacks by religious extremists in their first united stand on the issue.

The formal statement, which is in the final stages of drafting, will warn extremist groups that they are wrong to think they are acting in the name of the broader Muslim community.

The official head of Victoria's 90,000-strong Muslim community and one of the prime movers behind the initiative said the statement would effectively tell extremists "what you're doing, you're doing on your own".

"Whoever they are (and whatever they do), it is not in our name," said Yasser Soliman, president of the Islamic Council of Victoria. "We condemn it and never can condone it."

While not naming specific individuals involved in terrorism, extremist organisations or governments, the condemnation was "inclusive". "We stand away from all the actions of all extremists from all backgrounds," Mr Soliman said.


It seems a direct contrast. Further references to Muslims who have condemned terrorism:

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php


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Re: Is Islam inherently violent?
Reply #227 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 9:56pm
 
Ray_A  - that's good. thanks for that.

Hope they tell all the extremists and islamists in the world that.
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Rally to protest against Hezbollah
Reply #228 - May 18th, 2008 at 10:52am
 
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23711643-5006784,00.html

THOUSANDS of Lebanese Australians will stage a rally in a Sydney park today to show their support for the beleaguered Government in Beirut.

Lebanese Forces Association national treasurer Louie Fares said 8000-10,000 people were expected at the rally in central Sydney's Belmore Park, one of many demonstrations to be staged around the world this weekend to cheer on the Lebanese Government.

Mr Fares, who owns a tobacco shop in the Sydney suburb of St Mary's, said the rallies were being held because the Lebanese diaspora rejected any government takeover by the militant Islamic group Hezbollah.
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Re: Is Islam inherently violent?
Reply #229 - May 18th, 2008 at 9:51pm
 


"All citizens must pray five times a day. If it is prayer time and you are caught doing something else, you will be beaten.
All men will grow beards at least one fist length under the chin. If not, you will be beaten.
Singing is forbidden.
Dancing is forbidden.
Playing cards, playing chess, gambling and kite flying are forbidden.
Writing books, watching films, and painting pictures are forbidden.
If you keep parakeets, you will be beaten.
If you steal, your hand will be cut off at the wrist. If you steal again, your foot will be cut off.
If you are not Muslim, do not worship where you can be seen by Muslims. If you do, you will be beaten and imprisoned. If you are caught trying to convert a Muslim to your faith, you will be executed.
Women: You will stay inside your homes at all times. If you go outside, you must be accompanied by a male relative.
You will not, under any circumstances, show your face. You will wear a burqa at all times. If you do not, you will be severely beaten.
Cosmetics are forbidden.
Jewelry is forbidden.
You will not speak unless spoken to.
You will not laugh in public. If you do, you will be beaten.
You will not paint your nails. If you do, you will lose a finger.
Girls are forbidden from attending school.
Women are forbidden from working. "

taken from "A thousand splendid suns." pg 248.
Slightly abbreviated.
The whole text is more threatening.
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Re: Is Islam inherently violent?
Reply #230 - May 18th, 2008 at 9:56pm
 
Is that a religious text?

EDIT - apparently this is a fictional novel.
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« Last Edit: May 19th, 2008 at 10:33am by freediver »  

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Re: Is Islam inherently violent?
Reply #231 - May 19th, 2008 at 3:24pm
 
"THE body of slain Australian Fahdi Sheikh was mutilated by his killers in a petrol station before they rampaged through a nearby political office, killing eight of his colleagues.

Mr Sheikh, 41, a Lebanese immigrant who had lived with his wife, Marcelle, in Melbourne, returned to Lebanon a few days before fighting erupted in the country last Thursday.

He had been a member of the opposition-aligned pro-Syrian Hezb al-Kulmi party since childhood, the party's communications director, Maan Hameya, confirmed in Beirut last night.

"He was a good fighter," Mr Hameya said. "He grew up without his father, and he had gone to Australia to bring money back to his family.

"He believed in Hezb al-Kulmi, and he was an important member of this organisation."

Mr Hameya said Mr Sheikh was walking near his home, close to the office of Hezb al-Kulmi in Akkar, north of Tripoli, when gunmen loyal to government militias attacked him. "They shot him in the gas station, then attacked his body with heavy instruments," he said.

"He was the first one they killed before they entered the office and killed the rest. The gunmen would not let the Red Cross recover his body for several hours."


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23688845-15084,00.html


not a "fictional" novel
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Re: Is Islam inherently violent?
Reply #232 - May 19th, 2008 at 3:31pm
 
Tell me, was this killing about politics or religion?
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Re: Is Islam inherently violent?
Reply #233 - May 19th, 2008 at 3:36pm
 
"KABUL, Afghanistan -- Shazia is only 13. Her voice is barely audible. Around adults, she bites her nails and tugs at her black chiffon scarf, covering her face and hazel eyes.

She is one of the hardened criminals inside the dank and forbidding walls of Kabul's Provincial Jail for women. Her crime: running away from the 45-year-old husband she was forced to marry.

In fact, the jail is filled with teenage girls accused of crimes ranging from falling in love to having illicit affairs, from leaving unbending parents to running away from abusive husbands.

Taliban-style executions may be gone, but Islamic law and rigid cultural traditions persist in Afghanistan. The country still relies on Islamic law dating to the 7th Century.

The U.S.-supported government of interim Prime Minister Hamid Karzai says it still will uphold these laws, although perhaps not as strictly as the Taliban. Islamic laws allow women the right to turn down their parents' choice of husbands, but enforce harsh punishment for sex outside marriage.

Tribal laws, on the other hand, allow relatives to imprison and even kill young women who lose their virginity, bring shame to their family by falling in love with unacceptable suitors or even seek a divorce.

"I want a divorce," said Shazia, who like many Afghans does not have a last name. "My husband beats me. I'm not happy with him."

Taliban punishments halted

In its zeal to enforce Islamic law, the Taliban chopped off the hands of thieves in public stadiums and had family members shoot down murderers. If a woman were to run away from her husband, she, too, would have been executed, said the deputy of security in Kabul, Lt. Gen. Mohammed Khalil Aminzada. A married woman who committed adultery would be stoned to death.

"Right now, we don't do that," Aminzada said. "We put them in prison for three to four months. This is an Islamic society. If we let people do whatever they want, half of society will soon suffer from AIDS."

There is little information about AIDS here, but the World Health Organization reports 10 known cases in Afghanistan.

Aminzada said Kabul's police don't go out of their way to arrest runaways or adulterers unless they feel it will create a threat to security or if family members turn them in.

"Unless people complain, we do nothing," he said.

Among its many tasks, Afghanistan's interim government was supposed to create a commission to plan the rebuilding of the criminal justice system and to restore human rights as part of the Bonn agreement last fall. The commission has yet to be established.

In the absence of new laws, the country's high court has gone back to using the old Shariah laws of Islam, those in place before the Taliban. But they say they will apply them more compassionately.

Since the Taliban's departure, there have been no stonings or whippings. Those punishments could occur again some day, legal officials said, for repeat offenders or if the evidence is strong in a case.

For example, under the strict standard set by Shariah law, a married man or woman will be stoned to death for committing adultery if the accusation can be substantiated by four male eyewitnesses.

Under the Taliban, says the head of Afghanistan's high court, Fazal Hadi Shinwari, they didn't wait for four witnesses.

"It's very difficult to find four witnesses who can confirm the act," said Shinwari, who has a long white beard, a copy of the Koran sitting on his desk and a leather whip hanging on his wall.

"Of course the Taliban executed them without evidence, without any confirmation. They did not use the real Shariah. They just wanted to scare people. We're softer than them," he said.

Being softer in this case means imprisoning women for months or years rather than killing them.

Teen jailed by family

So in the empty, dreary cells of the Kabul Provincial Jail sit young women like Farayba, 19.

She and her lover went to the Taliban, hoping the former rulers would marry them against their families' wishes. Instead, Taliban officials gave them 5-year jail sentences.

When the Taliban abandoned Kabul five months ago, Farayba escaped with 71 other women in the jail.

Her family was relatively wealthy; her father had been a commander in the Ministry of Defense before the Taliban. When she chose to marry a poor man's son, Farayba brought shame to her family, who wanted her to marry a cousin. When she refused, her father, cousins and brothers beat her boyfriend's father.

Fearing for their lives, the young lovers turned again to authorities, this time from the interim government. "The police officials told me to marry my cousin," she said. "I refused and so they said I should serve the rest of my 5-year sentence. I don't think there's any difference between this regime and the Taliban regime."

Families face penalties

Adiba, 14, was forced at gunpoint to marry a 30-year-old Talib who broke into her father's house one night. She says family members in her husband's house tried to force her into prostitution.

When the Taliban left Kabul, she escaped from her husband's home. He, in turn, had her uncle and a cousin arrested, which is why she turned herself in to police. "

To be continued ...
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Re: Is Islam inherently violent?
Reply #234 - May 19th, 2008 at 3:38pm
 
"....When the Taliban left Kabul, she escaped from her husband's home. He, in turn, had her uncle and a cousin arrested, which is why she turned herself in to police.

In this tribal society, badal, or revenge, is a common theme. Often, families can have relatives of the guilty party arrested until the accused turns himself or herself in or pays compensation to the victim's family.

Nasreen, 30, has been in jail for months because her brother-in-law ran off with a girl. The girl's father had Nasreen, a widow with five children, arrested in his place.

In all, there are 14 women in the jail, sharing two tiny cells.

The jail provides only bread and water for most meals. The women buy their own tea and sugar. On good days, a family member may bring meat and rice, which prisoners often share.

The women do little except sit and talk, or perhaps walk in the courtyard. They stare out a window with iron bars and a ripped screen.

Bugs crawl in the reeking cells, where the women sleep with thin mats on the hard ground. Their blankets and pillows have not been washed in months.

Despite everything, some say they would rather be here than out on the streets of Kabul.

"Outside of the jail, they'll be killed by their families," said a jail guard, Khatool. "They feel it's safer to be in jail."



http://www.rawa.org/jail.htm



freediver - their religion is their politics and demands murder.
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Re: Is Islam inherently violent?
Reply #235 - May 19th, 2008 at 6:48pm
 
I noticed that Mr Solamin, named in a previous post did not name any organization involved in violence, the obvious reason being, he would be a vicim of violence himself. Islam is a violent non- tolerent religion, even when it began if you didnt join you were killed. Just animals and those that stick up for them fools.
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Re: Is Islam inherently violent?
Reply #236 - May 19th, 2008 at 7:34pm
 
I'd say the Taliban is as representative of Islam as David Koresh is of Christianity.
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Re: Is Islam inherently violent?
Reply #237 - May 19th, 2008 at 8:49pm
 
Ray_A -  fair enough.

What about hilalis comments, the hamas, iran, libya, syria ?
Or the original mass murdering paedophile himself, mohammad?
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Re: Is Islam inherently violent?
Reply #238 - May 19th, 2008 at 9:32pm
 
Ray , David Koresh was one small man with a small following, no comparison to the large numbers in Hamas, El Queda, the Taliban, Hezbollah, Jemaah Islamiyah and the dozens of others that we know little about.
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Re: Is Islam inherently violent?
Reply #239 - May 19th, 2008 at 9:33pm
 
Yeah, the KKK would be a better example than Koresh. Plenty of good clean God fearing white folk were in the KKK.
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