Sprintcyclist, you spend a lot of time obsessing over Islam - a religion the world has lived with for 1400 years and we haven't all blown up yet.

One day you will realise that this obsession is all about yourself and not your need to do us all a favour by putting the world to rights.

Remember the great haters like Luther were far greater theologians than you can ever hope to be and they managed to find justification in the bible for their vilest fantasies against another religion. In fact you can probably thank Luther for the mess the middle east is in regarding Israel and Palestine. Had Jews not been so badly mistreated by Christians in Europe, they would have had no reason to leave en masse in the first place, (the ones that weren't murdered by a Luther-quoting evil regime).

So do yourself (and us) a favour and find a more constructive way to build bridges between faiths instead of finding ways to persecute Muslims for their beliefs.

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 29^th, 2008 at 10:52am:


That's the point Sprintcyclist... they did believe or chose to believe they were following the dictates of Christianity.

Excerpts from 'On the Jews and Their Lies' - Martin Luther

He did not call them Abraham's children, but a "brood of vipers" [Matt. 3:7]. Oh, that was too insulting for the noble blood and race of Israel, and they declared, "He has a demon' [Matt 11:18]. Our Lord also calls them a "brood of vipers"; furthermore in John 8 [:39,44] he states: "If you were Abraham's children ye would do what Abraham did.... You are of your father the devil. It was intolerable to them to hear that they were not Abraham's but the devil's children, nor can they bear to hear this today.

To be sure, I am not a Jew, but I really do not like to contemplate God's awful wrath toward this people... Well, let the Jews regard our Lord Jesus as they will. We behold the fulfilment of the words spoken by him in Luke 21:20: "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near ... for these are days of vengeance. For great distress shall be upon the earth and wrath upon this people.

Learn from this dear Christian, what you are doing if you permit the blind Jews to mislead you. Then the saying will truly apply, 'When a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into the pit" [cf. Luke 6:39].

In brief, our evangelists also tell us what their rabbis taught. In Matthew 15:4 we read that they abrogated the fourth commandment, which enjoins honour of father and mother; and in Matthew 23, that they were given to much shameful doctrine, not to mention what Christ says in Matthew 5 about how they preached and interpreted the Ten Commandments so deviously, how they installed money-changers, traders, and all sorts of usurers in the temple, prompting our Lord to say that they had made the house of God into a den of robbers [Matt. 21:13; Luke 19:46]. Now figure out for yourself what a great honour that is and how the temple is filled with such glory that God must call his own house a den of robbers because so many souls had been murdered through their greedy, false doctrine, that is, through double idolatry. The Jews still persist in such doctrine to the present day. They imitate their fathers and pervert God's word. They are steeped in greed, in usury, they steal and murder where they can and ever teach their children to do likewise.

Now as I began to ask earlier: What harm has the poor Jesus done to the most holy children of Israel that they cannot stop cursing him after his death, with which he paid his debt? Is it perhaps that he aspires to be the Messiah, which they cannot tolerate? Oh no, for he is dead. They themselves crucified him, and a dead person cannot be the Messiah. Perhaps he is an obstacle to their return into their homeland? No, that is not the reason either; for how can a dead man prevent that? What, then, is the reason? I will tell you. As I said before, it is the lightning and thunder of Moses to which I referred before: "The Lord will smite you with madness and blindness and confusion of mind." It is the eternal fire of which the prophets speak: "My wrath will go forth like fire, and burn with none to quench it" [Jer. 4:4]. John the Baptist proclaimed the same message to them after Herod had removed their sceptre, saying [Luke 3:17]: "His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing-floor and gather his wheat into his granary, but his chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire." Indeed, such fire of divine wrath we behold descending on the Jews. We see it burning, ablaze and aflame, a fire more horrible than that of Sodom and Gomorrah.

What are we poor preachers to do meanwhile? In the first place, we will believe that our Lord Jesus Christ is truthful when he declares of the Jews who did not accept but crucified him, "You are a brood of vipers and children of the devil [cf. Matt. 12:34].

And Christ himself declares in John 4:22, "Salvation is from the Jews." Therefore they boast of being the noblest, yes, the only noble people on earth

No, you vile father of such blasphemous Jews, you hellish devil, these are the facts: God has preached long enough to your children, the Jews, publicly and with miraculous signs throughout the world. He has done so for almost fifteen hundred years now, and still preaches. They were and still are obliged to obey him; but they were hardened and ever resisted, blasphemed, and cursed. Therefore we Christians, in turn are obliged not to tolerate their wanton and conscious blasphemy. As we heard above, "He who hates the Son also hates the Father" [John 15:23].

We, indeed, have such a Messiah, who says to us (John 11:25): "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die." And John 8:51: "Truly, truly, I say to you, if any one keeps my word, he will never see death." The Jews and the Turks care nothing for such a Messiah. And why should they? They must have a Messiah from the fool's paradise, who will satisfy their stinking belly, and who will die together with them like a cow or dog.

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 29^th, 2008 at 1:21pm:

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2008 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2008 at 3:56pm:


You are presuming, of course, that bible readers will not form groups and not seek consensus on what they believe to be the meaning of the texts they read. You are then assuming that within these groups there will not be natural leaders and orators who will influence the group's perspective on scriptural reference. If the group is American they may even get TV coverage and become a televangelical denomination... and then it's come on down Benny Hinnn / Creflo Dollar ad nauseam...

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 29^th, 2008 at 5:18pm:


Helian all of those things will happen regardless of whether people read the whole thing on their own. The only thing that will change is people's gullibility, which will change for the better.

Are you familiar with the old 'snake oil salesmen' of the US midwest. They would go around selling some crap and claim it was in the Bible.