Australian Politics Forum - Our inadequate Armed forces

mantra

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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #75 - Nov 9^th, 2008 at 5:29pm

You started this rubbish Grendel with some vague reference to something I wrote 50 plus posts ago. Why didn't you respond then? I'm not a mind reader and don't know what you're thinking or what post you're referring to. I'm not sorting through all those posts and trying to second guess which one has upset you.

As far as wanting you to reply to my "crap" - you have been calling me a liar and asking for an apology for the last 48 hours and I still haven't a clue what you're talking about.

And yes FD - Grendel likes playing these little games where he attacks someone for no reason. If you don't respond - you're called clueless and if you defend yourself, you're called a liar.

He'll give up soon when he realises he's wrong again.

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mantra Gold Member Offline ozpolitic.com Posts: 10750 Gender:	Re: Our inadequate Armed forces Reply #76 - Nov 9^th, 2008 at 5:36pm
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48834 At my desk.	Re: Our inadequate Armed forces Reply #77 - Nov 9^th, 2008 at 6:52pm Settle down mantra. You can't let people get to you like that. Grendel from where I'm standing it seems like you're the one who's obsessed. You are the one making the absurd demands. This is a politics forum. People are obviously going to complain about the PM (or ex PM) here.
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Grendel

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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #78 - Nov 9^th, 2008 at 7:48pm

You are an idiot fd... oh wait... I've told you that b4.

I haven't made demands of anyone.

This is just all deflective crap.

I will state one more time for the uber dummies... what I've said in just about every post here so far... Howard spent more on defence he did not disarm us... ie the ARMED FORCES...

good grief.. Cheesy

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Our inadequate Armed forces Reply #79 - Nov 9^th, 2008 at 7:50pm So fd when do you think you can get around to answering my on topic questions eh?
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Grendel

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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #80 - Nov 9^th, 2008 at 7:54pm

mantra are you a complete idiot... didn't you say Howard disarmed us?

Isn't this topic about the Armed forces ie the Australian defense forces...

Isn't it a fact the Howard government increased spending on defense?

Isn't it a fact you are negatively obsessed with Howard still and made a false claim which is why you should own up to the facts and apologise.

You already piked on the other one and I cant be bothered finding it for you as I quite clearly stated ages ago yet you keep bringing it up.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48834 At my desk.	Re: Our inadequate Armed forces Reply #81 - Nov 9^th, 2008 at 9:02pm Stop insulting other members grendel.
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Our inadequate Armed forces Reply #82 - Nov 10^th, 2008 at 12:31am Stop insulting my intelligence fd and abusing my good will.. when are you going to answer my questions or are you just popping in here to flame me?
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mantra

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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #83 - Nov 10^th, 2008 at 5:55am

Quote:

mantra are you a complete idiot...

No

Quote:

didn't you say Howard disarmed us?

Yes

Quote:

Isn't this topic about the Armed forces ie the Australian defense forces...

Yes

Quote:

Isn't it a fact the Howard government increased spending on defense?

Yes

Quote:

Isn't it a fact you are negatively obsessed with Howard still and made a false claim which is why you should own up to the facts and apologise.

No

Quote:

You already piked on the other one and I cant be bothered finding it for you as I quite clearly stated ages ago yet you keep bringing it up.

No....you do.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Our inadequate Armed forces Reply #84 - Nov 10^th, 2008 at 8:17am DWMT
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locutius

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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #85 - Nov 10^th, 2008 at 8:38am

Grendel wrote on Nov 9^th, 2008 at 3:48pm:

good grief..

So FD do you agree with mantra that Howard disarmed the country?

Do you honestly think that a handful of civilians with automatics can defend Australia?

Do you deny Howard increased defense spending?

Who is talking about a handful of civilians? I'm not.

So what if Howard increased spending. A great deal of the equipment they purchased or locked Australia into purchasing is crap or inadequate for Australias unique theatre of operations. FA-18 Super Hornets for example.

But Beazley was no better. When we decided on the Collins class subs, I'm pretty sure we had an option of some of the LA class nuclear subs for about the same cost. Idiotically we turned it down because the Australian public was not mature enough for a nuclear powered (not nuclear armed) option.

Soren, you are spot on with your analysis of national service is all about. I'm sure that people generally would take valuable life lessons with them after service, but ultimately it is about service to your country.

I also believe that far more serious investment in arms manufacturing should be on the agenda for Australia.

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I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.

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Grendel

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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #86 - Nov 10^th, 2008 at 9:15am

Hate to tell you this but Labor off-shored a lot of our manufacturing re armaments etc... Closed down industries and now we buy ammo from Indonesia.

We have an ideal opportunity or did but mostly due to Labor new weapons technology... Australian designed has been off-shored to the US.

As for the Collins class they may have started out Lemons but they improved... in fact so much we beat the Yanks Nuclear subs in wargames.

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« Last Edit: Nov 10^th, 2008 at 6:37pm by Grendel »

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locutius

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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #87 - Nov 10^th, 2008 at 10:26am

I wonder if that says more about a combination of factors, for instance the quality of our crews, luck and the presumption of the Americans to expect something not quite a good. Maybe we hid the fact that certain problems had been solved.

Of course now we have the getting into range apparently sorted out, We still need to be able to take the shot. I think they should have been called the BUGGER-UP CLASS of submarine. They are better suited for countries that operate with much shorter lines of supply and shorter coastlines to protect. Nuc Subs offer more tactical flexibility.

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I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.

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mantra

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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #88 - Nov 10^th, 2008 at 10:30am

We did have the perfect opportunity over the last decade to reintroduce arms manufacturing here - particularly with the "war on terror" perpetuated by the "Coalition of the Willing" and our resources boom.

It was easier to buy from overseas - hence our horrifying trade deficit. Under the coalition - all obstacles were gone and the unions were castrated.

Easier to sell our resources for a pittance and then buy back the finished product with a million % markup.

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« Last Edit: Nov 10^th, 2008 at 3:37pm by mantra »

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Our inadequate Armed forces Reply #89 - Nov 10^th, 2008 at 6:51pm good grief... Whitlam - Labor- Lima - un - death of manufacturing... and yes both parties since then have done very little to correct the situation. Yet some people keep voting them back in. Collins class were quieter than the Nukes LOC...
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Poll
Question: National service
Yes No « Created by: DILLIGAF on: Feb 24^th, 2007 at 1:40pm »