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Question: National service



« Created by: DILLIGAF on: Feb 24th, 2007 at 1:40pm »

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Our inadequate Armed forces (Read 29945 times)
freediver
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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #90 - Nov 10th, 2008 at 9:34pm
 
Perhaps that's because the situation doesn't need correcting. This is like the old man in the forest who refuses to specialise in anything in case he becomes dependent upon bartering beans for corn with his neighbour.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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freediver
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Reservists 'need a bigger role'
Reply #91 - Nov 20th, 2008 at 2:03pm
 
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24678509-601,00.html

THE role of Australian Defence Force reservists should be greatly expanded, to include not only clerks in the jungles of the Pacific, but Qantas pilots in the air force and fishermen in the navy during the down season.

The Ready Reserve axed by the Howard government should be resurrected to boost capability at a time when the ADF is struggling to attract skilled personnel, the Australian Strategic Policy Institute has recommended.

Over the past decade both the US and Britain had made better use of their part-time military than Australia to sustain operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, according to the report from the government-funded ASPI.

Similar potential was available for the ADF but a more flexible working arrangement with employers was required along with a pay review, said report authors Andrew Davies and Hugh Smith.

Significantly, the Royal Australian Air Force had started discussions with Qantas about closer co-operation, Mr Davies told The Australian.

"The air force loses pilots to Qantas relatively frequently and what they're trying to do is turn that into a managed process," he said. "The quid pro quo might be that some of the Qantas people might come back and fly for the air force especially when the air force is flying aircraft that are essentially airliners."

Mr Davies was referring to new air-to-air refuellers and surveillance aircraft ordered by the RAAF.

In the US reservists fly the most advanced fast jets including the latest F-22 Raptor fighter.

Current ADF Reserve strength is 25,408, most of whom (17,171) serve in the army, but better use could be made of the part-timers for overseas deployments, Mr Davies said.

One option was to resurrect the Hawke-Keating era Ready Reserve which operated from 1991-1996 before it was scrapped by John Howard.

The program was worth reviving because at its core was a 12-month full-time training requirement designed to ensure the soldiers were more usable.

Faced with heavier demand on their military personnel both the British and Americans had gone further in their use of part-time forces than Australia.

"In part because they've been much more stretched than us with deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan," Mr Davies said.

To ensure the Reserves remained an attractive career option, the Rudd Government needed to close the gap in pay and conditions for full and part-time servicemen that would allow a "seamless" transfer between the reserve and regular ranks.

The British experience offered a new approach for use of Australia's part-time military, including the deployment of soldiers as light infantry on regional peacekeeping or humanitarian missions.

The ADF is moving in that direction. Most of the Australian troops serving with the Regional Assistance Mission to the Solomon Islands are now reservists.

Other initiatives to make better use of part-time military include the establishment of a national ADF data base with up-to date records of civilians and their skills, ASPI recommended.

The hard-pressed navy, which has seen many of its highly trained personnel take better paid jobs in the private sector, is now working with the South Australian fishing industry to utilise skilled personnel during their seasonal downtime.

"Not all civilian skills are in operationally high demand, but there are some specialised skills that can sometimes make valuable contributions to operations," said ASPI. These could typically include IT, language and psychology skills.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Mnemonic
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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #92 - Jun 27th, 2010 at 7:00am
 
easel wrote on Sep 2nd, 2008 at 10:38am:
If you aren't prepared to die defending your way of life, you don't deserve your way of life, and therefore if you are unwilling to fight, you shouldn't have the right to vote in order to yield influence over the country you aren't prepared to fight for. You should take the love of your country seriously and be preprepared rather than jumping in at the last minute.


That should be voluntary and not be forced on people.

easel wrote on Sep 2nd, 2008 at 10:38am:
Also, this militia should be outside the government, in the sense that it is only used for homeland defence, is not controlled by politicians, and CAN be used for legitimate overthrow of the government in the case where the government becomes a threat to the country.


The government is unlikely to become a threat to the country. Democracy was designed to prevent any single group or individual from dominating the country. The government will never have so much power that it becomes the enemy of the people. So if this militia is not under the control of the government, then who leads it? Who decides to deploy them and send them out on missions? I would like to think that this militia doesn't do anything that isn't sanctioned in a Constitution. All power-holding groups and individuals must follow the Constitution.
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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #93 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 8:02pm
 
I don't agree with national service. And that is certainly not because I am anti-defence. As a former servicewoman, I wouldn't want to have people at my back who don't want to be there. It is not safe, and doesn't make for a happy workplace.
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brumbie
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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #94 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 8:06pm
 
"Our inadequate Armed forces"


Our inadequate thankfulness.
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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #95 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 2:03pm
 
Yes to National Service.

If you conscientiously object to the military then the option should be to do do civil defence such as the SES / RFS / Charitywork etc.

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Peter Freedman
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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #96 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 3:07pm
 
AUShole wrote on Feb 25th, 2007 at 10:19pm:
Indonesia will not invade for our minerals. Any invader would be placed under a trade embargo by the UN and currency trades would be blocked by the IMF. They can't use the resources in Australia, because it can't support a large population. Trying to shift the ore out of Australia would be subject to the tankers being intercepted.

Indonesia will not invade for ideology. Religious wars haven't been fought for centuries. I can't  think of any wars in the last 100 years that have been declared on the basis of ideology. Have there been any?

As far as I see it, the only reason Indonesia would invade Australia is if someone came into power who wanted to conquer its neighbours for personal reasons. A megalomaniac. Some examples... Hussein, Hitler, Napoleon, Mugabe. Is there a deterrent to insanity?

Think about it this way. If you were to become the leader of Australia, holding the views that you do, would you invade Indonesia just for the sake of it? Even if you had a massive army?

Swiss national service...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Civilian_Service

AUShole. A pun on Australia and the great Aussie venacular, w@nker. Why? Australia is a great country, but not as great as some make it out to be. Plus, I like to question people's logic.


You could argue that WW2 was ideological. Fascism v democratic freedom in the west and v dictatorial Communism in the east.
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God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.
 
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Peter Freedman
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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #97 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 3:10pm
 
Swagman wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 2:03pm:
Yes to National Service.

If you conscientiously object to the military then the option should be to do do civil defence such as the SES / RFS / Charitywork etc.



Absolutely No to NS. Would achieve nothing.

Modern armed forces are professional fighting units and shouldn't have to deal with a bunch of amateurs who don't want to be there and are there only because we can't think of anything else to do with them.

The whole notion is farcical.
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God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.
 
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True Blue...
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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #98 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 4:38pm
 
Definitely yes to Natos..

We are talking about peace time training here people...

Do basic training, go on to higher qualifications or even sign on longer and get a trade...

Instil some patriotism which this country is sadly lacking...

Help these obese Australians what fitness is and show them that these more to life than a Fricken Xbox,,,

Teach them to take responsibility and how to take ownership of it...

It'll also teach them that there are consequences if you misbehave... no excuses... if you do the crime you'll do the time....

Teach them respect... god knows they are not getting taught at home or at school  Angry Angry

Only cowards would object to National Services

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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #99 - Jan 22nd, 2014 at 9:22am
 
If it was an elite properly disciplined group of people... but something tells the place will be mix of thugs and boys that don't want to be there, or those who want to be there but are regularly tortured and occasionally "king hit" by thugs, thus it will turn into little jail at best and every boy's worst nightmare. There is no way you can grow patriotism this way.
The worst kind survives, and our intelligent potential screwed up.
Not with the zoo we've currently brought up
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imcrookonit
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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #100 - Jan 22nd, 2014 at 9:45am
 
Where's the money coming from?.   Sad
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Bobby.
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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #101 - Jan 22nd, 2014 at 9:53am
 
Quote:
Where's the money coming from?.   Sad    



Good point - Australia is broke - we only survive by borrowing huge amounts of money.
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Quantum
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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #102 - Jan 22nd, 2014 at 11:04am
 
Quote:
Where's the money coming from?.   Sad    


You of all people would dare to ask that question. When you go on and on about paying higher amounts of welfare, do you ask where the money comes from? When you expect small businesses to pay more to workers, do you ask where the money comes from? When you want the government to build more infrastructure (or at least replace every railway crossing) do you ever ask where the money comes from? No, you never ever ask that. So STFU.
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imcrookonit
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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #103 - Jan 22nd, 2014 at 11:26am
 
You of all people would dare to ask that question. When you go on and on about paying higher amounts of welfare, do you ask where the money comes from?  No I don't.  Although there seems to be many others, that do ask.   Wink   
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Re: Our inadequate Armed forces
Reply #104 - Jan 22nd, 2014 at 3:26pm
 
a)  Do NOT provide aid and comfort to any prospective enemy by relating in public how weak is our potential first response to any given threat.

b)  It has been a great truth for a very long time now that the Australian Defence Force has been not much more than capable of a 'force projection'** of about one or two Infantry companies.

c)  In the 1990's the Navy asked for SIX aircraft carriers - two 'fleet' carriers and four small ones, but able to patrol our shores and vicinity and provide support for offshore operations.  We would need aircraft and trained crews etc - a big ask.

d)  The reason there is no national service or aircraft carriers or a more adequate air force is MONEY.  MONEY that we are spending on foreign wars that avail us nothing but experience for the troops and tragic PTSD cases as occurred recently.

e)  I've been attending a course over the past two days, at which it was mentioned that there are courses on how to pass an interview to be recruited into the Army.  My response was incredulous - I said that I came from a time when two Army officers had a good idea what they were seeing right in front of them, and that such a 'public service' approach was ludicrous and pointed to some serious problems with command training and trust***, leadership, and recruitment.


** 'force projection' is the ability to insert a combat force on a foreign shore and sustain it in continuous combat for a specified time.  In the 1980's, Australia's 'force projection' feel to about two platoons for two weeks.  Hence the rise of 'special forces' as the band-aid to resolve the lack of a force projection capability in the short term, and to provide something with which to make a 'statement' on the world stage (WADR to all other units involved - I speak here of the policy approach - not your commitment and service).


***  You mean to tell me you recruit these people as officer material, train them, turn them loose with a platoon of grunts, uptrain and promote them, and yet you have no trust in their ability and skill, after considerable experience and training in man-management, to choose their own men?  and you replace a selection board with a 'how to succeed at an interview' interview?

DAMN!  WTF happened to the Defence Force in the last ten years or so?
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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