helian,

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Do you have anything that remotely backs that up?

anti-Zionist riots began in Palestine in the 1920's due to the fact the British had flooded Palestine with Jews and was busy signing agreements to guarantee a national homeland for them there, and because Jews had begun forming militias. I doubt anyone from the Middle East had even heard of Hitler in that time.

So I think it had more to do with the fact the Jews were working to take over and dispossess them of their country than it had to do with Hitler. Btw, Hitler was pro-Zionist, as it served his goal of ridding Europe of Jews.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 9^th, 2008 at 8:51pm:


Doesn't that suggest that anti-Semitism already existed in the Middle East prior to Hitler rather than Hitler being responsible or the instigator of anti-Semitism in the region?

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Isn't that a bit of an oxymoron, considering that Arabs are in fact the largest and most purely Semitic people in existence?

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Since the guy is a Zionist and half of his books/talks seem to be about claiming Muslims are Nazis, could we expect anything less from such quarters? Guy sounds like a bit of a loon to me. anything to take the pressure off the atrocities of Zionism. If anything, Zionism is about the closest modern successor to Nazism, certainly not Islam.

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Ahhh right, so those poor naive Palestinians, were being dispossessed of their homes, watching a colonial power walk in and turn their country over to a previously 2% minority. who were forming militias and arming themselves to the teeth... yet they needed some half-wit in Germany to tell them they should start hating those who were doing this?

The fact is the anti-Zionist riots began in the early 1920's before Hitler was even relevant to the Middle East, and the fact is Muslims are not anti-Semitic anyway, especially not Arabs, since they are themselves the main group of Semites. Associating Muslim's legitimate right to anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism is just ridiculous. Anti-Zionist sentiment then spread to other parts of the Arab and Islamic world as the Zionists began raiding Arab villages and causing atrocities against the people of the land they were infiltrating, and news of this spread.

You've disregarded the clear facts, and instead posted a link to Zionist propaganda which is full of false accusations against Muslims, aimed at furthering the cause of the Zionist dispossession of the Muslims/Arabs of Palestine from their homes.

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It's more than appearance, that's what it means. It's akin to Muslims claiming anti-Muslim sentiment is actually anti-Human sentiment, when you consider the % of Semites that are Jews compared with the % of Humans that are Muslims, we'd be more than justified in using such terms.

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If that's what you're actually referring to, then use that term. Why would you use a term that actually means a group several magnitudes the size of what you actually mean? Perhaps it's because Judaism is a religion and not an ethnicity, so in order to make it appear more like an ethnic hatred, you have to refer to incorrect terms like Semite. Quite hypocritical that when it comes to hatred against Muslims, all of a sudden defining a group by their ethnicity is irrelevant, "We're only attacking the religion, so it's ok".

Either way, 'Arabic anti-Semitism' is still an oxymoron, and an enormous one at that, considering Arabs make up about 90% of Semites.

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Like most post-Caliphate Arab/Muslim leaders, he was misguided and astray. He was more of an Arab/Palestinian nationalist than he was a Muslim leader. He just happened to hold the post of "Grand Mufti" due to the position of his clan, not because he was any great Islamic Scholar.

The fact that he even encouraged Muslims to join the SS, is testimony to the fact he was a very unIslamic figure, as it's forbidden for Muslims to fight in the armies of non-Muslims.

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So it's got nothing to do with the fact a 2% minority began mass-immigrating into the land, forming militias, publishing statements they were going to expel the existing people of the land and turn it into a purely Jewish state??? All that is just secondary in your opinion?? Your argument defies logic.

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Theodore Hertzl published his book 'Juden Staat' (The Jewish State) in 1901, which outlined the principles of establishing the state of Israel in Palestine. That was about 40 years before the Holocaust, so you've got some serious holes in your argument here. Zionism was well established by the time Hitler rose to power, and the Arabs had been protesting/rioting against it before he came to power to. The stage was already set for the conflict to occur, any propaganda effort by the Nazis was pretty much negligable if you actually look at the situation that already existed.

You've based your whole argument on Zionist propaganda, and I don't think you've actually examined the situation that already existed, nor looked at the dates at which certain events happened. My advice to you would be to get yourself at least familiarised with the general timeline of how these historical events unfolded, then you might be in a better position to speak some sense.

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They had no right to object nor to accept. It's not their land that they were migrating to. This is ridiculous as the claim the UN voted in favour of the creation of the state of Israel in Palestine, they've got no right to do any such thing. If the UN today voted in favour of establishing an Islamic state in Australia, because Muslims are 2% of the population, and because Muslims had a history here that predated the Europeans, would you or any other Australian accept it? After all we're suffering anti-Muslim persecution in Europe and the US and even in Arab countries, so why shouldn't we have a safe haven to escape to? The whole idea is just illogical, as illogical as it was back in 1948.

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Jews live a lot safer in the USA and Canada than they do in Palestine... Again more of your twisted logic.

I've heard this claim too. Hitler did a tour of the middle east to shore up allies. He did so by pointing to a 'common enemy' - the Jews - and ranting against him as was his style, which seemed to work on people. Obviously this would require some pre-existing animosity towards the Jews. But Hitler did have a strong role in turning it into the nasty political movement you still see today. Obviously the fact that Islam puts Jews in a politically inferior position didn't help, but that is nothing like the style of organised hatred that Hitler brought.

I'm surprised Abu isn't keen to take any opportunity to 'blame it on the west'. I guess that's because he prefers to justify ill treatement of Jews.

I think it is reasonable to say that the attacks on Jews are typically more racial than religiously motivated. I have never heard of anyone complain about the Jewish religion. Hitler didn't care whether the Jews he killed were faithful. He would have killed plenty of athiest Jews. The Jews in Europe were bound by far more than religion. They stuck together in order to survive. Even if they didn't share the faith, they still shared cultural ties with their extended family and the broader Jewish community. It is kind of ironic that this divide had started to break down in Europe when Hitler turned up. The Jews were participating in mainstream society in ways that made them largely indistuinguishable from other Europeans. The persecution of Jews in Europe was very similar to the persecution of Gypsies. Obviously there is no religious motivation involved in the persecution of Gypsies. Nor do they have their own unique race. However, being a Gypsie, like being a Jew, is something that is largely inherited from your parents.

Obviously anti-semitism may seem an odd term, especially in the middle east where there are lots of non-Jewish semites. But this kind of misses the point. If there were a more appropriate term, we would use it, but there isn't. It is pointless getting hung up on the technicalities of race. Any race is impossible to pin down in a strict genetic sense. To demand a scientific basis for the accusation of racism attributes to racist people far more intelligence than they actually have. You can make a racial issue over anything, as Hitler managed to do with the whole Aryan thing. What matters is not whether there is a unique race being attacked. What matters is the motivation for the attack.

Attacks on Muslims typically have a different motivation. While the gang issues with Lebanese etc could reasonably be called a racial issue, broader antagonism towards Muslims is based on the religion. Occasionally it has racial aspects, especially when Muslims are equated with Arabs, in which case it can look a  lot like the anti-jewish propaganda of Hitler. Cartoons in newspapers tend to play this up. But for the most part, if you take the religion away, the antagonism goes. If you add the religion to a person of any race, the antagonism will be there. People are genuinely concerned about the doctrine.

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Even this term is incorrect. You should use the term anti-Zionism, as the opposition is clearly to the activities/ideology of Zionists and prior to the creation of the ideology of Zionism, Muslims/Arabs had no such problem or opposition to them.

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Allowed being the key word here. It's also rumoured that he worked for British intelligence from his exile in Egypt.. He was quite clearly a puppet of the various Western powers and he served their interests quite well. Seems in the end his loyalties were with the allies. Your pathetic attempt to use him to taint the image of Islam and justify the racist ideology of Zionist is lame.

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This is no way to avoid the point that anti-Zionist sentiment amongst Muslims/Arabs stems from the atrocities committed against them and the dispossession from their land caused by the Zionists, and not simply because some charismatic ranting European loon with a funny little moustache did a lecture tour of the Middle East.

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Never heard Canada was considered. Australia, Argentina & Uganda were the proposals I've heard of. They should've chosen Australia if you ask me. And not some patch of wilderness in the Kimberly as they proposed, but the Eastern seaboard states. Then we'd see how Aussies would support Zionism, after being herded into refugee camps in the deserts along the borders of South Australia and NT.

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This is the point, those Zionists who've migrated to Palestine don't live safer, they fear getting onto busses cos they might get blown up or rockets might come crashing down on their rooves.

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Yes but today it is not, yet Jews are leaving perfectly good homes and social/economic conditions in the USA to go and live in Palestine and further push the Palestinians into refugee camps and homelessness, can you justify this?

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That's great that you recognise this was wrong, but it's still not the business of Muslims. If you wanna make a mends for the wrongs your civilisation has caused to the Jews do it with your own land and homes, not with ours.