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Question: Is David Hicks Guilty as charged?



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DAVID HICKS (Read 33240 times)
freediver
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PM blasts Rudd over Hicks case
Reply #30 - Feb 22nd, 2007 at 5:00pm
 
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/PM-blasts-Rudd-over-Hicks-case/2007/02/22/1171733940013.html

Prime Minister John Howard has accused Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd of misleading the Australian public about David Hicks' military commission trial.

The government is under pressure over the plight of Hicks, who has been held at the United States military prison at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba for five years without trial.

Former military judge Susan Crawford is currently considering the charges of attempted murder and providing support for terrorism recommended against Hicks.

However, they have yet to be formally laid.

Mr Rudd on Wednesday night indicated he would raise the matter with US Vice-President Dick Cheney, during their meeting on Friday.

"When it comes to a US military commission, it simply doesn't pass the basic tests of justice," Mr Rudd told ABC Television.

"There is no presumption of innocence.

"On top of that, you have of course, the composition of the military commission itself and the normal laws of evidence which apply."

Under the military commission rules, the use of hearsay evidence and evidence obtained by coercion is permissible.

In an unusual move, Mr Howard put out a statement rejecting Mr Rudd's comments about the military commission system.

"(Mr) Rudd falsely claimed that there would be no presumption of innocence should David Hicks face trial before a military commission," Mr Howard said.

"This claim, which he has made before, is completely wrong."

Quoting from the act which established the commissions, Mr Howard said it showed the "accused must be presumed to be innocent until his guilt is established by legal and competent evidence beyond reasonable doubt".

"Nothing could be clearer than that."

Mr Howard also disputed that the normal laws of evidence would not be followed in the military commissions.

"The military commission rules include significant safeguards," he said.

"In particular, hearsay evidence may only be admitted where it has probative value and evidence may not be adduced where it would result in unfair prejudice to the defendant."

Mr Howard added the hearsay rule was similar to those that applied to the international war crimes tribunals.

"Mr Rudd should cease misleading the Australian public about the military commission process," he said.
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Re: Call to action on David Hicks
Reply #31 - Feb 23rd, 2007 at 4:03am
 
Let the basterd stay there.
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Quote:
Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything
&&-- G.K. Chesterton
 
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Re: Call to action on David Hicks
Reply #32 - Feb 25th, 2007 at 5:04pm
 
Shocked...has anyone stopped to think what MIGHT happen if he is released back into Australia? We know now what he was capable of, we have read the stories of his obnoxious behavior growing up, his cruelty to animals and total disinterest in other peoples feelings..and we have read of his terrorist connections, which frankly scares the hell outa me..how safe is he going to be if he is released into public life?..not everyone believes his story of innocence, he will be a sitting duck you watch! and the scariest part, is his father lives a few streets away from ME!...
you cannot blame me or others for being concerned about having this man walk so closely among us, I mean, he was caught, so we don't know, how far he could have gone, and what if his anger for our country, after supposedly abandoning him, is so full on, he loses it and takes it out on innocent people? It cant be said that I am fabricating, because this mans mind was not like mine or anyone elses, he had a strong desire to injure and mame..maybe even more, how the hell would we know?..
This man turned his back on Australia, why the hell would he even be interested in Al Queada (s/p), if he wanted to join an army, why did'nt he join one from here?..not TOUGH enough for him?
I think they should trial him yes, get him sorted out, and throw the book at him, for turning his back on such a wonderful country, as for doing his time over here..no...I don't want to pay for him in my taxes thanks..let whoever caught him deal with him...
Damn little trouble maker if you ask me, and if he was my son, I'd throw him over my knee and give him a damn good wack for behaving like a complete git... Angry
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Re: Call to action on David Hicks
Reply #33 - Feb 25th, 2007 at 5:09pm
 
We know now what he was capable of, we have read the stories of his obnoxious behavior growing up, his cruelty to animals and total disinterest in other peoples feelings

I haven't heard them.
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Re: Call to action on David Hicks
Reply #34 - Feb 25th, 2007 at 5:29pm
 
For one, he tortured cats and puppies, sticking them on poles and leaving them in the sun, apparently deriving much pleasure from this, he also forced himself to eat rotten chicken to 'toughen him up' and try to fight gastro, give him a cast iron stomach, so he could survive in tough middle Eastern culture...odd, but true, it was in the newspaper, and I was also good friends with his ex girlfriends sister, we went to school together..surely everyone read wat he was like as a tenn...if I read it, I am sure others did too..freaks like this can stay away as far as I m concerned!..and hey..if you lived as close as I do to the family you would have your concerns too..its only human..if it were someone from another country who was in this situation, and he was going to eventualy move near you, would you greet him with open arms? In this day and age? With a spread sheet like Hicks, I certainly would not want to have him in my area, unfortunately I cannot do anything about that if he gets out and moves in with his parents...everything right down to property values would be affected by this man moving home to his father..why should we shoulder that burdon..but we now have no choice...
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Re: Call to action on David Hicks
Reply #35 - Feb 25th, 2007 at 5:58pm
 
Mousee - this is amazing:

Quote:
he tortured cats and puppies, sticking them on poles and leaving them in the sun, apparently deriving much pleasure from this, he also forced himself to eat rotten chicken to 'toughen him up' and try to fight gastro, give him a cast iron stomach, so he could survive in tough middle Eastern culture...odd, but true, it was in the newspaper


I am horrified - after all the opinions and articles on Hicks, this is the first I've heard of him  torturing animals.  Why hasn't this been brought  under public scrutiny in more major media outlets.   I think you should write to the newspaper who published this and emphasise to them that we all need to hear more about his sadistic treatment of animals.  

Can you give me the source - so I can see for myself.  Obviously if he tortures animals it's possible he's a psychopath.

Have you also heard the latest that he's the golden boy of Al Quaeda?  It's amazing how this young man would now have to be the world's worst terrorist and sadist.  He's committed acts of  treachery, apostasy and conspiracy - also  betrayal, insurrection , revolt , rebellion , revolution , insurgence , subversion , sedition  and mutiny.

To think he was Australian born and raised - I'm surprised he didn't have a list of prior convictions as long as the Great Northern Highway.


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Re: Call to action on David Hicks
Reply #36 - Feb 25th, 2007 at 6:11pm
 
Hey mousee - great posts. I bet freediver is really happy now we have a good cross section of views here. Great stuff. Give us more.
Keep hicks out of Oz.
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Aussies leaned on US to alter Hicks charges
Reply #37 - Mar 14th, 2007 at 3:09pm
 
My guess is that the remaining charge is still being pursued only because it is so vague. IF they ahd a meaningful case against him, they wouldn't have tried adding those other absurd charges.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21378296-2702,00.html

TOP Australian officials leaned on US authorities to modify the charges against David Hicks, amid concern they could not be supported and that new legal challenges would further prolong his incarceration.

The Australian Government was particularly concerned about the conspiracy charge, after a US Supreme Court ruling last June that the offence of conspiracy did not exist under military law.

They were also exasperated at some of the evidence being cited against Hicks, such as the accusation that he had carried out surveillance and "collected intelligence" on the US embassy in Kabul.

They regarded this claim as laughable, as the derelict embassy building had been empty for years and was used routinely by Afghan commanders as a location for training exercises.

In the process, Australia has kept quiet about its mounting frustration over the ham-fisted legal saga, which has finally resulted in Hicks facing a single, downgraded charge, an acknowledgement that the case against him is weaker than one might have expected of a man labelled among "the worst of the worst".
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Re: Call to action on David Hicks
Reply #38 - Apr 7th, 2007 at 9:58am
 
Undecided...well looks like we will have to deal with him in our neighbour hood now doesn't it...if he gets out of prison in 7months. I guess he will be at Yatala Prison..all the other Prisons here in South. Aust are low security...so I doubt he will go anywhere else, either way, they will need to keep him isolated..he is not that popular around here, and I would say there would be plenty of people waiting for him out at Yatala...
I he has been tortured as he says, he could be suffering from some sort of stress disorder..I know the locals around here are worried, its a tight knit community and not too many people are happy about having him as a neighbour, in case he 'goes off' one day. Its all fair and well to prepair him for his homecoming, but what about the fears of neighbours, children, who have been witnessing all the accusations, and truths about this guy for years now....Who is sitting down with them??, and asking how THEY feel about living next door to a confessed terrorist informer...NO-ONE..they are expected to get over it..move on..yeah right, thats not so easy when you consider his history..a few people are thinking about selling up before he moves in again, because when he does, their houses will devaluate....of course, no body thinks of these things do they.....
I cannot believe, there are so many out there, willing to accept him so easily...he did turn his back on Australia after all!!
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Re: Call to action on David Hicks
Reply #39 - Apr 7th, 2007 at 1:25pm
 
How generous of you mouse-

It might be nice if you could forget about YOU for a sec and put yourself in the place of this man-who has suffered at the hands of a cruel dictators for so long and wonderhow he is going to get on with the rest of HIS life!!


The selfishness of some pple astounds me.
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Re: Call to action on David Hicks
Reply #40 - Apr 7th, 2007 at 1:27pm
 
again, because when he does, their houses will devaluate....of course, no body thinks of these things do they.....
I cannot believe, there are so many out there, willing to accept him so easily...he did turn his back on Australia after all!!"
-----------

who cares about houses 'devaluating'..get over it you mercenary selfish XXXXXX - you ought to be ashamed for your small minded lack of empathy for a fellow human..No matter what has been said about him.

Walk a mile in my shoes!

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« Last Edit: Apr 7th, 2007 at 9:10pm by N/A »  
 
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Bumbling Hicks 'not dangerous'
Reply #41 - Apr 30th, 2007 at 9:31am
 
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21634515-601,00.html

DAVID Hicks was a bumbling wanna-be who would have been a "total liability" for al-Qa'ida in any terrorist attack.
In a scathing critique, Hicks's US military prosecutors have privately described the convicted Australian as a man of "no personal courage or intellect" who rolled over as soon as he was questioned.

And they have undermined the Australian Government's portrayal of Hicks as a dangerous terrorist by admitting that his crimes were relatively minor compared with those of his fellow inmates at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

"I think he read Soldier of Fortune magazine too many times," said John Altenburg, the top US official in the Office of Military Commissions from 2004 to last year, speaking publicly about Hicks for the first time.

The formerly private views of the Hicks prosecutors are revealed in a new book, Detainee 002 - The Case of David Hicks, by ABC journalist Leigh Sales.

One Australian official said Hicks "talked to everybody ... ASIO, the AFP, the CIA, the FBI, M15, anybody who'd come in with a hamburger, he'd tell them whatever they wanted to know".

The prime culprit was the Pentagon which, through a mixture of incompetence and deliberate obstruction, ensured that the Hicks case proceeded at a snail's pace.

The book identifies US Vice-President Dick Cheney and former defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld as the key powerbrokers who backed the Pentagon's intransigence in relation to the Guantanamo Bay inmates.
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Re: Bumbling Hicks 'not dangerous'
Reply #42 - Apr 30th, 2007 at 9:53am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 30th, 2007 at 9:31am:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21634515-601,00.html

DAVID Hicks was a bumbling wanna-be who would have been a "total liability" for al-Qa'ida in any terrorist attack.
In a scathing critique, Hicks's US military prosecutors have privately described the convicted Australian as a man of "no personal courage or intellect" who rolled over as soon as he was questioned.

And they have undermined the Australian Government's portrayal of Hicks as a dangerous terrorist by admitting that his crimes were relatively minor compared with those of his fellow inmates at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

"I think he read Soldier of Fortune magazine too many times," said John Altenburg, the top US official in the Office of Military Commissions from 2004 to last year, speaking publicly about Hicks for the first time.

The formerly private views of the Hicks prosecutors are revealed in a new book, Detainee 002 - The Case of David Hicks, by ABC journalist Leigh Sales.

One Australian official said Hicks "talked to everybody ... ASIO, the AFP, the CIA, the FBI, M15, anybody who'd come in with a hamburger, he'd tell them whatever they wanted to know".

The prime culprit was the Pentagon which, through a mixture of incompetence and deliberate obstruction, ensured that the Hicks case proceeded at a snail's pace.

The book identifies US Vice-President Dick Cheney and former defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld as the key powerbrokers who backed the Pentagon's intransigence in relation to the Guantanamo Bay inmates.




Ok, another beat up of David Hicks- just more hearsay and someone trying to make money of his misfortune.

Fortunately I dont believe everything I read.

Not saying Hicks is a hero or anything else, but the steady stream of nasty articles is bad form.

The only story I want to read is Hicks', that one I will pay money for.
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Guilty plea from Hicks at Guatanamo Bay
Reply #43 - Mar 27th, 2007 at 5:48pm
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070327/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/guantanamo_australian_deta...






suspect at Gitmo By MICHAEL MELIA, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 20 minutes ago



GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba - An Australian accused of helping the Taliban fight the U.S.-led invasion of        Afghanistan pleaded guilty Monday to providing material support for terrorism, a step lawyers said would assure his transfer from Guantanamo to a prison in Australia.

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David Hicks, 31, was the first of hundreds of Guantanamo detainees to make such a plea at this        U.S. Navy base since the first terror suspects were brought here in 2002. On Monday, he also became the first detainee to face prosecution under revised military tribunals set up after the Supreme Court found the        Pentagon's previous system for trying Guantanamo prisoners unconstitutional.

He could be sentenced by the end of the week, military officials said. Defense attorneys said a gag order by the military judge prevented them from discussing details of the plea until a sentence is announced and it could not be immediately determined whether there was a formal plea bargain.

"If I was a betting man, I'd say the odds are good" that Hicks will be home by the end of the year, Air Force Col. Morris Davis, the chief prosecutor for the Guantanamo tribunals, told reporters after Hicks entered his plea.

In the days leading up to the hearing, defense attorneys said Hicks did not expect a fair trial and was severely depressed and considering a plea deal to end his five-year imprisonment at the U.S. naval base in Cuba.

The United States has agreed to let Hicks serve any sentence in Australia.

"This is the first step toward David returning to Australia," said David McLeod, an Australian attorney for Hicks.

The heavyset Hicks appeared at his hearing wearing a khaki prison jumpsuit. The Muslim convert shaved his beard before his arraignment but kept the long hair that his attorney says he uses to block the constant light in his cell.

His father Terry Hicks had an emotional reunion with his son before the arraignment Monday. But he already had boarded a plane to leave Guantanamo when he was told an evening session would be held and was not in the courtroom when his son entered his pleas.

Hicks' military attorney, Marine Corps Maj. Michael Mori, told the judge, Marine Col. Ralph Kohlmann, that his client was pleading guilty to one of two counts of providing material support for terrorism and not guilty to the other. Asked by Kohlmann if this was correct, Hicks said solemnly: "Yes, sir."

According to the charge sheet, Hicks spent weeks trying to join the fight in Afghanistan alongside the Taliban against invading U.S. forces and their Northern Alliance allies, the charge sheet says, but the Taliban's lines collapsed barely two hours after he reached the front. He was armed with grenades and an assault rifle and his menial assignments along the way included guarding a tank.

The count he pleaded guilty to says he intentionally provided support to a terror organization involved in hostilities against the United States. He denied the charge that he supported for preparation, or in carrying out, an act of terrorism.

The charge carries a maximum penalty of life in prison, but Davis has said he would seek a sentence of about 20 years. He said the five years Hicks has spent at Guantanamo could be considered in the ultimate sentence.

The United States is holding about 385 prisoners at Guantanamo. Among them is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, an al-Qaida member who during a so-called Combatant Status Review Tribunal earlier this month confessed to planning the Sept. 11 attacks and other terror acts. That military panel determined he was an enemy combatant who could later face charges.

Unlike the alleged terrorist mastermind, Hicks has been depicted by the U.S. military in its charge sheet as a minor figure.

Kohlmann, wearing a black robe over his uniform, ordered attorneys to attend a closed session Tuesday in a hilltop courthouse on the base in southeast Cuba to specify the acts to which Hicks is pleading guilty. The judge will also make sure Hicks understands the consequences of the plea, officials said.

A panel of military tribunal members convened for the Hicks case must travel to Guantanamo to approve any sentence, a development that could come this week.

"We're anticipating in the next few days bringing this to a conclusion," Davis said.

In Australia, Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said he expected Hicks would return soon to Australia, where an outcry over his continued detention has cost Prime Minister John Howard support ahead of elections due this year.

"I am pleased for everybody's sake that this saga ... has come to a conclusion," Downer told Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio.

But Sen. Bob Brown, leader of the minor opposition Greens party, said Hicks made the plea so he could get out of Guantanamo Bay and his guilt would remain in doubt.

"He's pleaded guilty but under circumstances that wouldn't hold up in an Australian court and that debate will fly home with Hicks," Brown said.

The plea announcement marked a dramatic conclusion to the first hearing under revised military tribunals.

Defense lawyers and human rights groups say the new system, approved by the U.S. Congress last year, is also flawed "
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Re: Guilty plea from Hicks at Guatanamo Bay
Reply #44 - Mar 27th, 2007 at 5:54pm
 
Rest of article due to link not working for me




He's pleaded guilty but under circumstances that wouldn't hold up in an Australian court and that debate will fly home with Hicks," Brown said.

The plea announcement marked a dramatic conclusion to the first hearing under revised military tribunals.

Defense lawyers and human rights groups say the new system, approved by the U.S. Congress last year, is also flawed because it does not offer the same protections as U.S. courts.

"In a narrow sense, David Hicks was not legally coerced today to issue a plea, but he was operating in the background of a highly coercive system that has held him for five years and did little today to restore his faith ... in the legitimacy of the system," said Jennifer Daskal of Human Rights Watch.

At the first session in Monday's hearing, Hicks asked for more lawyers to help defend him, but Kohlmann instead ordered two civilian attorneys to leave the defense table, leaving the defendant with one attorney.

Kohlmann said the two civilian lawyers, including a Defense Department attorney, were not authorized to represent Hicks.

One of the lawyers, Joshua Dratel, said he refused to sign an agreement to abide by tribunal rules because he was concerned the provisions did not allow him to meet with his client in private.

"I'm shocked because I just lost another lawyer," Hicks said after Dratel's departure, drawing a scolding from the judge for interrupting as he explained the reasoning for removing the lawyers.

Mori challenged Kohlmann's impartiality, arguing that his participation in the previous round of military trials that the Supreme Court last year found to be illegal created the appearance of bias.

A challenge of the reconstituted tribunal system is pending before the Supreme Court. Lawyers for detainees have asked the high court to step in again and guarantee that the prisoners can challenge their confinement in U.S. courts.

Lawmakers have also questioned the detainees' lack of access to U.S. courts."

..
The thing I see as fantastic is he will be allowed to serve the rest of his sentence in Australia ,he,ll be out of there.
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