Australian Politics Forum - The Great Muslim Debate

zoso

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Re: The Great Muslim Debate
Reply #75 - Mar 26^th, 2007 at 7:01pm

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My soccer team is made up of Christians, Muslims and Atheists, i get along with all of them very well.
When i was at school, Some of my best friends at school were Hindu and Muslim, one of my mates at Uni is Jew. I am a christian fundamentalist, yet i seem to be able to coexist quite happily with all these other religions. Actually i am quite normal just like everyone else, amazing.

Awesome, thats really good mate! Encouraging

Just a tip, if you don't want to confirm his comments ie:
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throw around blanket statements like that I think i am seperior

Don't go saying things like:
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in fact i know what is right unlike many people

Which implies your religion tells you what is right and thus us godless folk don't know what that is. I always come across this with religious types: "I'm not arrogant or anything its just that my beliefs make me better than you".

Sorry dude, I'm not meaning to be horrible to you or anything and I don't think you said the wrong thing (quite the opposite), just that the way in which you said that might have confirmed what AN was talking about, even if it wasn't your intention. Oh and don't let AN get your back up... he means to do that Wink

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: The Great Muslim Debate
Reply #76 - Mar 26^th, 2007 at 11:46pm

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Ok, Trump... we a bit calmer now?

What have I done to make you assume I'm having a spac attack? Huh

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Ouch don't hurt my freedoms there! 1) your butcher is an idiot and 2) I doubt it has much to do with it, hell I'm offended by christmas bull and the utter waste of energy that goes into those stupid keeping up with the joneses light displays...

Well, like I said before zoso, it's only a neighbourhood with a small Muslim minority, yet they still get away with things like this. Can you imagine what it's like for an Australian living in Bankstown and Lakemba?

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Yeah, just forget that the same is true when it comes to aboriginals, gays, christians, bikie gangs, vietnamese gangs, fat white people, rich white people, italians, greeks and so it can go on... this is a criminal problem if anything, not a cultural one.

Gee... I had no idea 'bikie' suburbs, 'fat white' people suburbs, 'rich white' people suburbs' and 'gay' suburbs were so 'rampant' in Australia. Grin

Greek and Italian suburbs aren't much of a problem.

Vietnamese and Aboriginal suburbs are definitely a problem. Hence the failure of multiculturalism.

But out of all the problems these suburbs create, the Muslim suburbs cause the biggest problems. Any idiot can see that.

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So this doesn't happen from non Muslim gangs? Again, criminal problem, not cultural.

Zoso, if you think that a majority of gangs in Australia aren't ethnic and culturally motivatedk, you're delusional.

'Gangs' are not unique to any culture, but the motivations behind it (Differences in culture) are a big factor. For example, the Vietnamese and Islander gangs in South Brisbane. Hence, the failure of multiculturalism. If Australians saw themself under one banner and one culture, there wouldn't be this kind of gang problem.

And Islamic gangs are BY FAR the worst (Guns, knives etc etc). 'Aussie gangs' are few and far between.

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Private school boys anyone? White people? Black people? Again, this is not isolated to the Muslim community.

Yeah, and these 'gang rapes' weren't CULTURALLY motivated were they? The Islamic attacks were. Roll Eyes

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As you yourself have demonstrated, this is again not isolated to Muslims... see a pattern emerging yet?

No, there's no pattern. We'd decrease the AMOUNT of riots though.

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OhI see... a solely Muslim problem again?

No... as above.

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Australia's one terrorist bombing was carried out by a white Australian, there is as much chance that any terrorist attack will be due to any person of any cultural background as there is it being a Muslim. Racial profiling in this way is known to not work. The fear comes from propaganda, I for one am far from afraid of terrorism, I think the much more likely scenario of me dying from slipping in the shower deserves more of my attention. I know many people who feel much the same and think the threat of terrorism is just overblown propaganda.

I'll tell you what mate, for someone who's 'clear' on what it is to be a Muslim, you certainly are bringing RACE into it aren't ya?

And what about the Muslims who were caught BEFORE they carried out their attacks? Do they count? Or in your mind don't they qualify becuase they never 'got away with it?' Roll Eyes

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Was not brought here by Muslims, this is a huge problem amongst white Australians and almost everyone else.

There's that word 'white' again...

Whatever, Muslims take 'homophobia' to new heights.

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Ok so I'm sick of writing the same thing over and over. None of these things are unique to Muslims, not one single one of them, every one of your points supporting your claim of 'extreme times' does not fit the bill. These are not extreme times, they are very normal times.

Can't you grasp the idea that I'm not trying to PROVE that these things are UNIQUE to Muslims??? I'm merely trying to make a point that they are probably ten times worse at these issues than Australians are. Do we really want people here who take these issues to extreme levels?

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I am not innately familiar with it either,

Gee, what a surprise. Not familiar with a subject you're using to back up your argument? Roll Eyes

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but my point was more that when examples of division are used as an excuse for cleansing (presented it poorly of course),

The French Muslims did it to themselves. It wasn't the French who did it at all. Huh

As I will soon point out in another thread, Muslims tend to create their own societies within societies, cutting themselves off from the rest of the world. Why? Because it says to do it in the Quran! Why is it so hard for you to grasp this, zoso? It's a unique Islamic trait. We've seen examples of it right across the world and it's not unique to the Muslims within Australia.

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« Last Edit: Mar 26^th, 2007 at 11:52pm by ex-member DonaldTrump »

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Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything

&&-- G.K. Chesterton

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Aussie Nationalist Ex Member Gender:	Re: The Great Muslim Debate Reply #77 - Mar 26^th, 2007 at 11:48pm Quote: Lets all play my god is better than your god... What god???
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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: The Great Muslim Debate
Reply #78 - Mar 27^th, 2007 at 12:10am

Quote:

The point is that imposed powerful cultural divisions resulted in serious violence in France, not the other way around, it is an example that supports my position of cultural tolerance, not your position of increased division.

It actually supports my position that Muslims isolate themselves, form their own communities within communities and then have the nerve to wonder why they aren't being treated as equals, going on a month-long riot.

Don't we see a pattern similar to Australia, Denmark, Netherlands, England and Sweden here?

SURELY it's not our fault. Not using this many examples. It's DEFINITELY an Islamic cultural trait. Look it up, and you'll see, zoso boy.

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On the level of propaganda you may be correct, but this is not true. Almost all cases of ethnic cleansing occur due to a fear of cultural influences by the elite, communists feared cultural influences that would undermine their agenda, so did the Nazis. The race card is merely drawn to help the propaganda machine along.

Right...

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I would rather look at it as an example of what you presented as 'solutions'.

Which one?

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A fair call when taken to their ultimate conclusions, but my point was more that when examples of division are used as an excuse for cleansing (presented it poorly of course), violence erupts as a result of the intolerance, it is not some inherent attribute of cultural differences. Take the modern Jews in Israel if you like, or south African Apartheid, that is what I am talking about.

Whatever. Just admit you're not good with history and I'll ease up on you. 'Modern.' Grin

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If total anihilation of a culture is your aim, however when you get rid of some and leave others you tend to seriously piss the remaining portion off.

Oh bullsh1t. What are you basing this off?

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Is the total eradication of a religious group of around a billion people what you are after?

No. Where have I EVER said I wanted to do this???

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Because I would say that excluding them from our country while we accept others is simply asking for trouble,

With their technology? Please. Roll Eyes

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if we don't have terrorist problems now, we surely would if we went down that path.

No Muslims = no worries.

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Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything

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oceans_blue Ex Member	Re: The Great Muslim Debate Reply #79 - Mar 27^th, 2007 at 12:30am ALL WE NEED IS LOVE..................................
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ex-member DonaldTrump Gold Member Offline Oh mere mortals, open your eyes! Posts: 1995 Overseas Gender:	Re: The Great Muslim Debate Reply #80 - Mar 27^th, 2007 at 1:05am Quote: ALL WE NEED IS LOVE.................................. I guess I'll stop breathing air then.
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zoso

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Re: The Great Muslim Debate
Reply #81 - Mar 27^th, 2007 at 7:58am

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 12:10am:

Well, like I said before zoso, it's only a neighbourhood with a small Muslim minority, yet they still get away with things like this. Can you imagine what it's like for an Australian living in Bankstown and Lakemba?

Wont somebody think of the children?

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 12:10am:

Gee... I had no idea 'bikie' suburbs, 'fat white' people suburbs, 'rich white' people suburbs' and 'gay' suburbs were so 'rampant' in Australia. Grin

I'll assume that is a sarcastic remark.

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 12:10am:

Zoso, if you think that a majority of gangs in Australia aren't ethnic and culturally motivatedk, you're delusional.

I had multiple gang fights in my neighbourhood as a teenager, always between vietnamese gangs and skinhead gangs. No failure of multiculturalism, just stupid gangs breaking the law. It takes two ignorant groups to tango mate, and in every case I encountered at least one of these groups was an Australian one.

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'Aussie gangs' are few and far between.

Now who's deluded Roll Eyes

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Yeah, and these 'gang rapes' weren't CULTURALLY motivated were they?

Yes they were. I remember a private school boys group in Brissie called the rape squad or some such, group of mates in their own little sub-group going out raping chicks because thats what they did. This is just an example of how cultural influences go way beyond ethnic divisions. Besides, I couldn't care less what motivated a rapist so long as the prick ends up behind bars. I don't expect we will be seeing rape legalised any time soon to accommodate our muslim neighbours, so again, criminal problem not cultural... and really I believe that ALL criminal problems have a bit of a cultural problem at heart, when talking about Australians, Muslims, Aborigines or 12 yr olds makes no difference.

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No, there's no pattern. We'd decrease the AMOUNT of riots though.

How many Muslim riots have there been anyway? Even Cronulla was a stupid whitey event... take zero from a number and you wont change that number...

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I'll tell you what mate, for someone who's 'clear' on what it is to be a Muslim, you certainly are bringing RACE into it aren't ya?

Its not that at all, but you do like to bring it to the personal level don't you? You see, you say 'Australian' but you mean 'white Australian', and that is why I use it. I actually consider 'Australian' to be anyone who is a citizen and belongs to any cultural creed, which would mean Muslims and Vietnamese and many more, so I use the term to specifically talk about that one group you consider to be the only 'Australian' one. Thats all Trump, were just talking on the same level... nothing to do with race, I'm just following your lead.

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 12:10am:

It actually supports my position that Muslims isolate themselves, form their own communities within communities and then have the nerve to wonder why they aren't being treated as equals, going on a month-long riot.

Don't we see a pattern similar to Australia, Denmark, Netherlands, England and Sweden here?

SURELY it's not our fault. Not using this many examples. It's DEFINITELY an Islamic cultural trait. Look it up, and you'll see, zoso boy.

I do not actually disagree that isolation, segregation and extreme cultural divisions are a bad thing. I am trying to point out to you that in order to eliminate these things, groups of people need to be integrated into society, not pushed away. I know you don't believe it is possible but you don't have a credible alternative up on offer which is why I started this thread.

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 12:10am:

Right...

Now who's ignorant of history?

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 12:10am:

Whatever. Just admit you're not good with history and I'll ease up on you. 'Modern.' Grin

So you are telling me that segregation in Israel results in no violence? Are you telling me that segregation in the Apartheid system resulted in no violence? This makes me poor at history? I used the word modern to distinguish between your point about the Jews in the bible... I'd say in the context the word 'modern' fits... you're a fcukin fruitloop.

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 12:10am:

No. Where have I EVER said I wanted to do this???

So you want to live in harmony with our Muslim neighbors now?

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 12:10am:

With their technology? Please. Roll Eyes

So you agree? Terrorism is not a danger to us?

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 12:10am:

No Muslims = no worries.

But I thought you didn't want to get rid of them.... all? And so long as the religion remains (and we have successfully deported all muslims Roll Eyes

), people may still convert within our country, shock horror, the we would have, shock, muslims again... So then what? Live in this perpetuating cycle until someone has the gall to wipe them out... OR... we could all just learn to get along? And by that I mean more likely that a lot of Muslims will be lightening up on their extreme views but people like you would have to also... Takes two groups to tango Trump, you are as bad as they are.

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zoso

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Re: The Great Muslim Debate
Reply #82 - Mar 27^th, 2007 at 8:12am

A hand needs to be extended, there is absolutely no point sitting here on the internet complaining about why Muslims can never get along with any other culture, no point at all. There is only one option and that is to find some way of making it work, to find a way of allowing freedom of religion while throwing out these pointless petty arguments about cultural differences. They have always existed and always will exist.

I think we need to first drop the d@mn issue! There is no point paying lip service to the extremist views on the media and websites like this. Sprintcyclist your daily news posts only serve to forward the extreme agenda by giving it air. Turn your backs on the vocal idiots! Show them nobody is listening, and no I do not mean ignore the issue and let it creep up on us, I mean don't make such a fuss about it!

Secondly I think we need to stop giving the points of issue any air in the first place. Trumps example of banning certain meats at the butcher is a good one, this has to stop, things like allowing women to have license photos taken under the veil, this has to stop. This way there would not be so much for Aussies to be complaining about and Muslims would not assume they can get away with this sh!t.

Thirdly, schooling, is more or less addressed already, but this is part of a broader argument that our whole country needs more money in education.

Fourth, stop being such puss!es about it! Don't witness something you dislike (the butcher for example) let it brew up inside then b!tch about it on some website like some little b!tch! Say something to the d@mn butcher! If enough people do this he will quickly realise that there are greater cultural offences to be committed by paying lip service to minorities than doing what everyone else wants. Same with all these issues, just don't let it happen in the first place and it wont be a problem! I thought Aussies were a tough and vocal bunch? not a bunch of puss!es who slink around letting their laws be circumvented and then complaining about it in private! Be men (and women) about it!

Finally, just accept that multiculturalism is not going away and that some way needs to be found to reconcile this... Just accept reality!

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: The Great Muslim Debate
Reply #83 - Mar 27^th, 2007 at 9:47pm

Quote:

I had multiple gang fights in my neighbourhood as a teenager, always between vietnamese gangs and skinhead gangs. No failure of multiculturalism, just stupid gangs breaking the law. It takes two ignorant groups to tango mate, and in every case I encountered at least one of these groups was an Australian one.

To me... that sounds like multiculturalism at work.

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Now who's deluded

Proof or knowledge please?

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Yes they were. I remember a private school boys group in Brissie called the rape squad or some such, group of mates in their own little sub-group going out raping chicks because thats what they did. This is just an example of how cultural influences go way beyond ethnic divisions. Besides, I couldn't care less what motivated a rapist so long as the prick ends up behind bars. I don't expect we will be seeing rape legalised any time soon to accommodate our muslim neighbours, so again, criminal problem not cultural... and really I believe that ALL criminal problems have a bit of a cultural problem at heart, when talking about Australians, Muslims, Aborigines or 12 yr olds makes no difference.

Okay... so... a small isolated group of Australian private school-boys decide to invent a criminal gang and you somehow assume this is a widespread 'culture.'

Well... I agree... all rapists should be treated equally. But if we get rid of the problem (In this case... Islam...) rapes would be severely reduced, wouldn't they? (Not to mention women could walk freely in the street with their shoulders exposed without being abused). And no... it's not an Australian cultural trait to 'rape.'

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How many Muslim riots have there been anyway? Even Cronulla was a stupid whitey event... take zero from a number and you wont change that number..

'Stupid whitey' hey? There's that word again.

Oh okay. So you don't acknowledge that this so-called 'riot' wasn't triggered by Muslims in the first place? And don't you acknowledge the next few riots carried out in the following nights?

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Its not that at all, but you do like to bring it to the personal level don't you? You see, you say 'Australian' but you mean 'white Australian', and that is why I use it.

I consider anyone who acknowledges European culture (Whether you be black, white, yellow or blue) to be Australian. Whatever, keep you're dumb culture behind closed doors if you want, but out in public, you must abide by Australian culture. That's the way it should be.

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I actually consider 'Australian' to be anyone who is a citizen and belongs to any cultural creed, which would mean Muslims and Vietnamese and many more, so I use the term to specifically talk about that one group you consider to be the only 'Australian' one.

Then we have VAST differences of opinion then. Since when has it been like this anyway? Since 1983? Big deal. My granddad and great-grandad I'M SURE wouldn't have fought in both world wars to uphold the beliefs of Vietnamese and Muslims. In fact, they would have been bigger bigots than Hitler.

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Thats all Trump, were just talking on the same level... nothing to do with race, I'm just following your lead.

Quit assuming, zoso.

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I know you don't believe it is possible but you don't have a credible alternative up on offer which is why I started this thread.

How's about, upon arriving in Australia, tell them to leave their cultures behind and dedicate their lives to Australia?

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I do not actually disagree that isolation, segregation and extreme cultural divisions are a bad thing.

Fair enough. We're on the level then.

On the large scale however, I agree with it. Country to country, rather than community to community (Sorry if I explained that bad).

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Now who's ignorant of history?

You're not very good at spotting sarcasm are ya?

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So you are telling me that segregation in Israel results in no violence? Are you telling me that segregation in the Apartheid system resulted in no violence? This makes me poor at history? I used the word modern to distinguish between your point about the Jews in the bible... I'd say in the context the word 'modern' fits... you're a fcukin fruitloop.

Fruitloop! Whoa! I think the engineering student is getting serious now.

You clearly know only the 'modern' aspects of history whilst totally ignoring all the instances of history where segration and 'culture destruction' has ended peacefully which did not lead to further violence. In an earlier post, I demonstrated about 15 or 20 examples where culture destruction has successfully worked and did not lead to further problems... yet you ignored it... choosing to indicate the popular, multiculturalism friendly 'aparteid' and 'Middle-eastern' examples. IF you had any 'real' knowledge of history, SURELY you could relate to instances where cultures have been completely destroyed through force with no consequences... but no... you continue to insist that EVERY instance throughout history it's led to more violence. This sweeping statement in itself is self-defeating... and there's no way you can prove it to be true. And using the stupid aparteid system and Israel as your CORE examples is just showing me that you only know the standard, politically correct versions of history... aka... the 'popular' ones.

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: The Great Muslim Debate
Reply #84 - Mar 27^th, 2007 at 10:40pm

Quote:

So you want to live in harmony with our Muslim neighbors now?

I wouldn't mind one bit, so long as they aren't living in Australia. Being separated by thousands of kilometres and official borders is one thing... but sharing your community with them is ridiculous, not to mention dangerous.

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So you agree? Terrorism is not a danger to us?

Building a car bomb as opposed to a jet are slightly different things, zoso.

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But I thought you didn't want to get rid of them.... all? And so long as the religion remains (and we have successfully deported all muslims ), people may still convert within our country, shock horror, the we would have, shock, muslims again... So then what? Live in this perpetuating cycle until someone has the gall to wipe them out... OR... we could all just learn to get along? And by that I mean more likely that a lot of Muslims will be lightening up on their extreme views but people like you would have to also... Takes two groups to tango Trump, you are as bad as they are.

1) I only want to get rid of the ones within western communities. It makes sense to do so.
2) People will never convert to Islam in Australia on the large scale if there isn't a large community already in existence. Muslims in Australia would be no problem if our Government didn't invite so many of them, so rapidly, at the same time, within the same area. But it's too late now, and if we don't do something about it soon (Like fireants or canetoads) the problem will grow and grow.
3) How many Australian converts are there, anyway? I've heard it's the fastest growing religion in the world, but is it really the case in Australia? Do you have statistics to prove that there's a few Australian converts?

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A hand needs to be extended, there is absolutely no point sitting here on the internet complaining about why Muslims can never get along with any other culture, no point at all. There is only one option and that is to find some way of making it work, to find a way of allowing freedom of religion while throwing out these pointless petty arguments about cultural differences. They have always existed and always will exist.

I think we need to first drop the d@mn issue! There is no point paying lip service to the extremist views on the media and websites like this. Sprintcyclist your daily news posts only serve to forward the extreme agenda by giving it air. Turn your backs on the vocal idiots! Show them nobody is listening, and no I do not mean ignore the issue and let it creep up on us, I mean don't make such a fuss about it!

Secondly I think we need to stop giving the points of issue any air in the first place. Trumps example of banning certain meats at the butcher is a good one, this has to stop, things like allowing women to have license photos taken under the veil, this has to stop. This way there would not be so much for Aussies to be complaining about and Muslims would not assume they can get away with this sh!t.

Thirdly, schooling, is more or less addressed already, but this is part of a broader argument that our whole country needs more money in education.

Fourth, stop being such puss!es about it! Don't witness something you dislike (the butcher for example) let it brew up inside then b!tch about it on some website like some little b!tch! Say something to the d@mn butcher! If enough people do this he will quickly realise that there are greater cultural offences to be committed by paying lip service to minorities than doing what everyone else wants. Same with all these issues, just don't let it happen in the first place and it wont be a problem! I thought Aussies were a tough and vocal bunch? not a bunch of puss!es who slink around letting their laws be circumvented and then complaining about it in private! Be men (and women) about it!

Finally, just accept that multiculturalism is not going away and that some way needs to be found to reconcile this... Just accept reality!

Gee... how inspiring. Hopefully that's the final post from you so we can close this stupid thread.

Good advice by the way, just cop it and if we don't, we're 'just pvssies.' 'The eternal wisdom of zoso.' Roll Eyes

Let's let the problem grow folks... it's easy... all we have to do is 'do nothing.' I mean... it worked for the Jews didn't it? It worked for HIV/aids didn't it?

I see you ignored the French example again btw... Whatsamatta? -Cat got your tongue? -Unsure of your own assumptions again?

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freediver

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Re: The Great Muslim Debate
Reply #85 - Mar 28^th, 2007 at 3:04am

Greek and Italian suburbs aren't much of a problem.

There was a problem when people thought they were, just as you now think Muslim communities are a problem. The only difference between them is how recently the people immigrated.

For example, the Vietnamese and Islander gangs in South Brisbane. Hence, the failure of multiculturalism.

One small problem such as this is not an indication of a failure of multiculturalism as a whole.

'Aussie gangs' are few and far between.

The worst gangs in Australia are the bikies. They are 'aussie' gangs by any definition. After seeing white people beat up ethinics in broad daylight in large numbers, it is no surprise they form gangs for self defense. BTW, perhaps you should say white instead of Australian so as not to confuse people. Making up your own definition of aussie just makes you look ignorant of Australian culture.

I'm merely trying to make a point that they are probably ten times worse at these issues than Australians are.

Then you are failing to make that point. Furthermore, you are completly missing the point of this thread and making it just like a dozen other threads on this forum. The member who started this thread acknowledged there was a problem from the beginning.

It actually supports my position that Muslims isolate themselves, form their own communities within communities and then have the nerve to wonder why they aren't being treated as equals, going on a month-long riot.

So do asians and any other group that is made to feel unwelcome.

SURELY it's not our fault.

It's not possible to put fault on any one group. A major contributor to this problem is people's tendency to oversimplify it.

And no... it's not an Australian cultural trait to 'rape.'

Neither is it a Muslim thing.

Oh okay. So you don't acknowledge that this so-called 'riot' wasn't triggered by Muslims in the first place?

Again, you cannot hope to resolve anything by looking for a single cause. Forget 'who started it.' If white people start looking for excuses to go round beating up ethinics, they are the problem, not the ethnics.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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zoso

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Re: The Great Muslim Debate
Reply #86 - Mar 28^th, 2007 at 10:09am

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 10:40pm:

Gee... how inspiring. Hopefully that's the final post from you so we can close this stupid thread.

Good advice by the way, just cop it and if we don't, we're 'just pvssies.' 'The eternal wisdom of zoso.' Roll Eyes

Let's let the problem grow folks... it's easy... all we have to do is 'do nothing.' I mean... it worked for the Jews didn't it? It worked for HIV/aids didn't it?

Glad to see you are capable of keeping up Trump... Roll Eyes

I said EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE to what you have claimed me to say right here. I said: if there is a problem, get out and speak up about it. I explicitly DID NOT say sit on your ass and wait for it to go away. Your butcher for example obviously feels that the minority he is pandering to is the most vocal... so get out and change that. I never said a thing about 'just cop it' I said DON'T COP IT... if you DO sit there and cop it (as you appear to be) then yes, you are a pvssy who only wants to complain... are you with me? Good to see university has helped your reading skills...

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 10:40pm:

I see you ignored the French example again btw... Whatsamatta? -Cat got your tongue? -Unsure of your own assumptions again?

Aye, that I did, I am not clued up enough on the topic to make my point, and I am not about to go out and research it with many other things on my plate. Strike one up for you if you like but it was off topic to begin with, in fact almost every post from you in this thread has been off topic, bar one. Freediver is correct, you have taken what was initially me admitting there is a problem and asking how we should deal with it and turned it into you whingeing about multiculturalism again. If you have nothing more to say Trump, piss off and don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out. If you do have some contributions relevant to the topic please, speak up.

And don't take this as victory because I left your mindless drivel unanswered... I could ago on forever in that pointless debate, but this is about what can be done to remedy these issues, not talking about the issues in the first place. I have said my piece: speak up and don't let our culture be changed, other than that I'd like to hear different perspectives. And look here you appear to agree with me:
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Whatever, keep you're dumb culture behind closed doors if you want, but out in public, you must abide by Australian culture. That's the way it should be.

And Australian culture permits people to walk around head to toe in black with a veil if they wish, it permits people to wear whatever we like and worship whatever we like. I completely agree however that your butcher should not be changing his menu and we should not be allowing women to have license photos taken under the veil, hindu dudes not having to wear motor bike helmets because of their head thing etc and so on. All that sh!t is wrong, with me?. Just don't sit back and expect the government to protect these things for you, get out and speak up about it, get out and get all your mates to speak up about it - just don't go cronulla style on us because as we saw, and you pointed out (retaliation attacks), that sort of mindless violent rioting only increases the problems tenfold. Nonviolent resistance Trump... the point is to resist these things that are upsetting you in a way that does not escalate tensions.

An easy first step - go out and tell your butcher that you are culturally offended by his decision, then write to your council and find out why Christmas lights were banned, and say you are culturally offended by this, encourage your neighbours to do the same... now THAT would be doing the right thing.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: The Great Muslim Debate Reply #87 - Mar 28^th, 2007 at 11:00am It was probably people like Aussie Nat who got the lights banned. People who are antagonistic towards all religion and don't like seeing money wasted on the festive season.
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Classic Liberal

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OzPolitic

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Re: The Great Muslim Debate
Reply #88 - Mar 30^th, 2007 at 8:52pm

zoso wrote on Mar 26^th, 2007 at 7:01pm:

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My soccer team is made up of Christians, Muslims and Atheists, i get along with all of them very well.
When i was at school, Some of my best friends at school were Hindu and Muslim, one of my mates at Uni is Jew. I am a christian fundamentalist, yet i seem to be able to coexist quite happily with all these other religions. Actually i am quite normal just like everyone else, amazing.

Awesome, thats really good mate! Encouraging

Just a tip, if you don't want to confirm his comments ie:
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throw around blanket statements like that I think i am seperior

Don't go saying things like:
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in fact i know what is right unlike many people

Which implies your religion tells you what is right and thus us godless folk don't know what that is. I always come across this with religious types: "I'm not arrogant or anything its just that my beliefs make me better than you".

Sorry dude, I'm not meaning to be horrible to you or anything and I don't think you said the wrong thing (quite the opposite), just that the way in which you said that might have confirmed what AN was talking about, even if it wasn't your intention. Oh and don't let AN get your back up... he means to do that Wink

sorry to go off topic but..

I would not be a Christian if my religion was not "right".... I personally never once said i was better than you because i knew what was right, in fact the statement "I'm not arrogant or anything its just that my beliefs make me better than you" is merely stereotype, much the same as the "bushman australian" or the "dumb Irish".

I find it irritating when people claim that christians are arrogent and think we are better, when you yourself say such condescending sterotypes in reference to myself without readig properly what i said. If you had read what i said i actually pointed out me "knowing what is right" makes me less of a person not more as I still do so much wrong.

Knowing what is right does not make me superor arrogant, it just shows you have been taught and were lucky enough to listen.

could i be a christian if i did not believe i was right? the whole point of our religion is the belief in God etc, if i did not believe it was fully true and right then i would not believe in God and thus not be a Christian

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zoso

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OzPolitic

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Re: The Great Muslim Debate
Reply #89 - Mar 31^st, 2007 at 5:16pm

pender I wasn't having a go at you

If you want my opinion (and you probably don't) nobody can claim they are not arrogant if they do not question their own beliefs, myself included.

You saying this: "I would not be a Christian if my religion was not "right"...." is arrogant as far as I'm concerned. How on earth do you know you are right and other beliefs are wrong? That is the definition of arrogance as far as I'm concerned. Don't be ashamed of it, its not a bad, I was just trying to point out to you that it is this attitude that upsets people... because telling somebody who doesn't believe the christian religion is 'right' that it in fact is 'right' implies that you think your belief structure is superior to theirs. This tends to upset people and it is the one simple thing that christians never seem to get their heads around.

You may be right mate just keep it to yourself and acknowledge that it is a personal 'right', not a universal one... then we all get along...

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Poll
Question: Aussie converts- What to do.
Leave them alone Force them to renounce Deport them undecided « Last Modified by: DILLIGAF on: Mar 22^nd, 2007 at 6:21pm »