Australian Politics Forum - Are maths and science the same thing?

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48841 At my desk.	Are maths and science the same thing? Apr 16^th, 2007 at 3:56pm According to zoso they are. I disagree. For example, maths has proofs, science doesn't. The entire field of maths can be built from entirely human constructs, whereas science always seeks to explain or model nature. If it has any resemblance to nature, maths is abstracted from it so that it can be built on proofs.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48841 At my desk.	Re: Are maths and science the same thing? Reply #1 - Apr 16^th, 2007 at 3:58pm From the other thread: Where have I demonstrated a failure to understand the laws of maths? You have failed to provide those laws. You are the one who brought them up, yet you cannot even say what they are.
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sense(Guest) Guest	Re: Are maths and science the same thing? Reply #2 - Apr 16^th, 2007 at 3:59pm freediver - on this you are right as I've just told zoso on the other thread. But you are still a religious crank.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48841 At my desk.	Re: Are maths and science the same thing? Reply #3 - Apr 16^th, 2007 at 4:00pm ...who just happens to be right
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zoso

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Re: Are maths and science the same thing?
Reply #4 - Apr 16^th, 2007 at 4:06pm

You are right only by misrepresenting what I said.

Maths is not science, it arose from science and as such is scientific in nature. All you are doing is trying to cut clear distinctions for terms thatin reality overlap each other, the world is not black and white, only in the minds of christians.

bugger this site it blows. You are a piece of sh!t freediver, take your religious bullsh!t and shove it where god intended, and seems to have located your head.

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zoso

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Re: Are maths and science the same thing?
Reply #5 - Apr 16^th, 2007 at 4:08pm

From wikipedia:
Quote:

Mathematics is the body of knowledge centered on concepts such as quantity, structure, space, and change. It evolved, through the use of abstraction and logical reasoning, from counting, calculation, measurement, and the systematic study of positions, shapes and motions of physical objects. Mathematicians explore such concepts, aiming to formulate new conjectures and establish their truth by rigorous deduction from appropriately chosen axioms and definitions.

Mathematics is used throughout the world in many fields, including science, engineering, medicine and economics. These fields both inspire and make use of new discoveries in mathematics. The application of mathematics to such fields is often called applied mathematics. Mathematicians also engage in pure mathematics, or mathematics for its own sake, without having any practical application in mind; although applications for what began as pure mathematics are often discovered later.

So the study of 'quantity, structure, space, and change' is not scientific?

The entire first paragraph there sounds like scientific study to me...

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48841 At my desk.	Re: Are maths and science the same thing? Reply #6 - Apr 16^th, 2007 at 4:16pm So it isn't science, it's just 'scientific in nature'?????? So the study of 'quantity, structure, space, and change' is not scientific? Not the way mathematicians study it.
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freediver

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Re: Are maths and science the same thing?
Reply #7 - Apr 16^th, 2007 at 4:19pm

From the other thread:

You are fishing you piece of sh!t, you know the laws of maths

I had never heard of them until you brought them up. I suspect you just made this up. That is not to say that they don't exist. I'm just curious as to why you would make claims about these rules when you don't even know what they are.

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zoso

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Re: Are maths and science the same thing?
Reply #8 - Apr 16^th, 2007 at 4:22pm

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2007 at 4:19pm:

From the other thread:

You are fishing you piece of sh!t, you know the laws of maths

I had never heard of them until you brought them up. I suspect you just made this up. That is not to say that they don't exist. I'm just curious as to why you would make claims about these rules when you don't even know what they are.

So maths is provable within itself, without a set of laws then? It is just this great big amorphous mass of randomness?

Of course maths has rules, that is how maths is defined, it is to an extent arbitrary...as is often the case with science.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48841 At my desk.	Re: Are maths and science the same thing? Reply #9 - Apr 16^th, 2007 at 4:24pm I am not necessarily saying it doesn't have rules. I'm just saying that you made claims about those rules without even knowing what the rules are.
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zoso

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Re: Are maths and science the same thing?
Reply #10 - Apr 16^th, 2007 at 4:26pm

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2007 at 4:19pm:

From the other thread:

You are fishing you piece of sh!t, you know the laws of maths

I had never heard of them until you brought them up. I suspect you just made this up. That is not to say that they don't exist. I'm just curious as to why you would make claims about these rules when you don't even know what they are.

bugger you freediver, you dangle the line still. It doesn't matter what I say in response to this, you will find a way of making it into an argument when there is none.

If you are a student as you said you were to me, the nyou would know that maths has rules, that is how it is defined, unless of course you lied to me about what you study? religious piece of sh!t, I am quite sure that is the case isn't it?

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zoso

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Re: Are maths and science the same thing?
Reply #11 - Apr 16^th, 2007 at 4:27pm

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2007 at 4:24pm:

I am not necessarily saying it doesn't have rules. I'm just saying that you made claims about those rules without even knowing what the rules are.

Find a point where I demonstrate my ignorance to the rules of maths in my words? Show me freediver, show me where I have said something, anything about any mathematical law?

I said they exist, you are fishing you front bottom and you smacking know it.

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zoso Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 512	Re: Are maths and science the same thing? Reply #12 - Apr 16^th, 2007 at 4:30pm I am studying mechanical engineering and I have a 6.5 gpa in doing so... You want to tell me I don't know my maths? You want to come down here and say that without the security o your keybard in front of you?
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freediver

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Re: Are maths and science the same thing?
Reply #13 - Apr 16^th, 2007 at 4:31pm

If you are a student as you said you were to me, the nyou would know that maths has rules, that is how it is defined

I have never seen maths defined in any rigourous way. Certainly not with rules.

Show me freediver, show me where I have said something, anything about any mathematical law?

From the other thread:

You are fishing you piece of sh!t, you know the laws of maths

I said they exist, you are fishing you front bottom and you smacking know it.

Fair enough, you implied, by using them to back up your argument, that they exist.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48841 At my desk.	Re: Are maths and science the same thing? Reply #14 - Apr 16^th, 2007 at 4:32pm You want to tell me I don't know my maths? You don't know the rules that define it. Apparently anyway. It's nothing to be embarrassed about. I don't either.
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