Australian Politics Forum - ISLAM [from thinking globally]

JJJ(Guest)

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Re: Islam and women
Reply #285 - May 7^th, 2007 at 10:07am

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on May 4^th, 2007 at 3:45pm:

I wouldn't judge Muslims by what they THINK the Quran says, but by what they DO as a result.

donaldtrump, i get what ur trying to say, basically the actions of muslims are based on their interpretation of the Quran and u use the actions of muslims to judge whether Islam is a violent religion or not.

but what if u have one violent muslim and one peaceful muslim? and suppose both of their actions are based on their interpretation of the Quran, so would u conclude that Islam is a violent or peaceful religion (since it can't obviously be both)?

Quote:

Would you judge one Christian by what another Christian does?

Generally speaking, yes.

you can't be serious!!! Shocked

in that case then the violent actions of the KKK would be a reflection of all christians worldwide. i'm pretty sure sprintcyclist would be offended by this.

Quote:

believe that when researching any religion to seek knowledge from people who are properly educated in the religion, otherwise u run the risk of being misinformed about the religion - i.e. when researching islam refer to a shiek, christianity refer to a priest, judaism refer to a rabbi, etc.

i think that's a fair point, it comes down to referring to people who are qualified in a particular field of expertise, e.g. kind of like referring to a doctor when u get sick as opposed to a vet, i.e. the doctor is qualified to assess ur illness, while the vet is not. same kind of logic when researching religions.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Islam and women
Reply #286 - May 7^th, 2007 at 4:23pm

Quote:

believe that when researching any religion to seek knowledge from people who are properly educated in the religion, otherwise u run the risk of being misinformed about the religion - i.e. when researching islam refer to a shiek, christianity refer to a priest, judaism refer to a rabbi, etc.

Any person educated in a specific religion will tell you the good bits of that belief.
More "honest" to read their book yourself. ie, Bible, koran, whatever.
Come to your own conclusion based on what you yourself have read.

Think that is a bit of a time waster ? try decades in a false belief, then being unable to escape.

perhaps also draw up a short list of things amy belief should allow/no allow.

eg, freedom of choice of worship, freedom to leave, belief in peace. whatever is pertinant to you.

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JJJ(Guest)

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Re: Islam and women
Reply #287 - May 7^th, 2007 at 4:30pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 7^th, 2007 at 4:23pm:

Any person educated in a specific religion will tell you the good bits of that belief.
More "honest" to read their book yourself. ie, Bible, koran, whatever.
Come to your own conclusion based on what you yourself have read.

yeah, but what if i'm not qualified to interpret the text? i.e. i have an incorrect understanding of a particular verse and need to get other people to clarify what it means.

better to refer to people in the know.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Islam and women
Reply #288 - May 7^th, 2007 at 4:42pm

You are completely quallified to read a book and come to your own conclusions JJJ.
Your qualifications are, you are alive, you can read, you have a brain.

However sure JJJ, if there is a specific verse that is ambiguous, seek clarification.

There WILL be other verses that will guide you into the meaning of that verse.
The overall intention is revealed by reading the whole text.

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JJJ(Guest)

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Re: Islam and women
Reply #289 - May 7^th, 2007 at 4:51pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 7^th, 2007 at 4:42pm:

You are completely quallified to read a book and come to your own conclusions JJJ.
Your qualifications are, you are alive, you can read, you have a brain.

sprintcyclist, my point is some religions may be very complicated and require u to seek advice from people who are knowledgeable in it. that's why every religion has priests, monks, rabbi's, shiek's, etc. if it was so simple to just pick up the book, read it and come up with ur own conclusions, then we wouldn't need religious figures to help us.

let's give u a non-religious example, if i pick up and read a book about open-heart surgery, does that make me a qualified heart surgeon? no, i've read it but that doesn't mean i understand it. so who do i refer to if? you guessed it, a qualified heart surgeon.

u get the picture now?

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freediver

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Re: Islam and women
Reply #290 - May 7^th, 2007 at 4:59pm

I have read the Christian Bible from front to back. I'm also halfway through the Bagavad Gita and I've picked up the pentatuch a few times. My interpretation of the Bible was admittedly influenced by what I had been told it was all about. With the Gita I have no idea what the message is. I don't think that reading these books once through would qualify anyone to judge what they are really about except in the broadest possible sense. Only by actually trying to apply them to your day to day life would you gain insight into the message. It would be like expecting someone to read through a thermodynamics textbook once and then explain whether a perpetual motion machine is possible, or design a rankin engine. If you are really switched on you might be able to explain the perpetual motion thing, but not the rankin engine. Only by spending countless hours doing the sample problems and being guided by instructors do students begin to put all the pieces together and 'get' it.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Islam and women
Reply #291 - May 7^th, 2007 at 5:53pm

Hi JJJ and freediver,
how are you both ?

JJJ, I entirely agree, reading a book on open heart surgery will not make me a heart surgeon, for deeper knowledge, more research is required.
Reading a book on open heart surgery will give me probably the best base for obtaining further information on that topic. More importantly, I myself will KNOW the basics of it.
Noone can decieve me significantly on that topic because I myself have read it.

Freediver ,
I have never even heard of the Bagavad Gita ! Thought the pentatuch was the first 5 books of the Bible - Old testament ?

Sure, as in the open heart surgery example. Reading a book on it will not enable me to design a rankin motor (what is that ?). It might help me to know what one is though, or how it theoretically works.
Have to walk before I can run.

There is nothing better than doing your own research.
If I am taught by others, I learn at best what they were taught.

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freediver

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Re: Islam and women
Reply #292 - May 7^th, 2007 at 6:25pm

Suppose we wanted to know whether Islam is inherently degrading to women and we didn't want to read the Koran. What then? This is a real issue that people face. Everyone wants to know what Islam is really like, but almost no-one is going to be motivated enough to read it, and certainly not to study it enough to come close to answering it. Maybe I should approach a comparitive religion professor at a University.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Islam and women
Reply #293 - May 7^th, 2007 at 7:26pm

Yes, that is prob about it. Many people want to know if the koran/islam is genuinely a threat, or
whether it is ok and just a beat up by pres. Bush.

It took me about 35 mins all ip in 3 different bookshops to confirm my views.
Sure, I may be wrong and have opened the "wrong" quotes while there.
The fact is, the quotes are there. i know cause I read them. You don't know, cause you did not read them.

Also read one about cutting off disbelievers opposite hands and feet. In the same week in the media a corpse was found in an islam country with head, hands and feet cut off.
Not just as directed in the koran, but they went a step further. How extreme

What sort of belief writes this sort of stuff ? Or has apoptosy ?
No other belief has anything remotely like that .
Anyway, I am tired of discussing such a perverted oppressive topic. my time is more valuable.

Am listening to Louis Armstrong on my beautiful stereo and drinking good beer. Much better.

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freediver

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Jail for rapist who attacked Muslim
Reply #294 - Jun 15^th, 2007 at 7:34pm

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Jail-for-rapist-who-attacked-Muslim/2007/06/15/1181414536623.html

A man who raped a Muslim woman because she showed an interest in Christianity has been jailed for at least five years by a Sydney court.

As Abdul Reda Al-Shawany was sentenced on Friday, the Downing Centre District Court heard a harrowing statement from the victim, revealing that her shame and fear had been compounded by her cultural background.

The woman, who cannot be named, arrived in Australia as a refugee from Iraq.

But she said that even when she was jailed by dictator Saddam Hussein, she never feared for her life the way she did after the rape.

"It is better if I'm dead," she told the court.

In September 2002, Al-Shawany lured the woman to a unit at Warwick Farm, claiming to have news about her family in Iraq.

She was hit on the head and had her hijab tied around her face before Al-Shawany raped her twice in what Judge Brian Knox described as a degrading, humiliating and brutal attack.

Afterwards Al-Shawany told her: "Let your Christ benefit you now."

It took the jury less than half an hour to convict him of two counts of sexual intercourse without consent.

His victim - who has since converted to Christianity - wept at the back of the court as a friend read out her victim impact statement.

She said she was afraid she would be killed, either in retribution by Al-Shawany's family or in an "honour killing".

"In Iraq, if some woman has got a problem like this, her husband can kill her, or her brother or her uncle can kill her, without question," the victim wrote.

"They can kill me here too in Australia.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Classic Liberal Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 769 sydney Gender:	Re: Islam and women Reply #295 - Jun 16^th, 2007 at 1:26pm you can only judge poeple by teh fruit of their lives...
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AusNat Ex Member Gender:	Re: Islam and women Reply #296 - Jun 20^th, 2007 at 6:11pm Classic Liberal wrote on Jun 16^th, 2007 at 1:26pm: you can only judge poeple by teh fruit of their lives... And of their loins......
Back to top	young_islamic_cnts_001.JPG (83 KB \| 66 ) Total anti-marxist and anti-left wing. The Right is Right.&&&&&& IP Logged

Classic Liberal Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 769 sydney Gender:	Re: Islam and women Reply #297 - Jun 22^nd, 2007 at 9:50am as jesus said "if a tree does not bear good fruit cut it down" hold on i am just going to get my axe.
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AusNat Ex Member Gender:	Re: Islam and women Reply #298 - Jun 22^nd, 2007 at 11:38am Classic Liberal wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2007 at 9:50am: as jesus said "if a tree does not bear good fruit cut it down" hold on i am just going to get my axe. Which mosque are you heading to, Auburn or Lakemba? wait for me i'll join ya
Back to top	Total anti-marxist and anti-left wing. The Right is Right.&&&&&& IP Logged

Classic Liberal Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 769 sydney Gender:	Re: Islam and women Reply #299 - Jun 22^nd, 2007 at 3:33pm the hide they have calling it gallipoli, we all know why they called it that.
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