Australian Politics Forum - ISLAM [from multiculturalism board]

DILLIGAF Gold Member Offline Posts: 1259 The greens are red Gender:	Re: Muslims are pretty rude.. Reply #240 - Sep 10^th, 2007 at 1:50pm freediver wrote on Sep 10^th, 2007 at 12:54pm: [i] Sprint, it's you and DT that are trying to put all the blame on the muslims. Perhaps you two should stop- its not the Muslims who are the cause of todays unstable world. Who are the people that are the root cause for forcing them over here? Very simple answer.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48830 At my desk.	Re: Muslims are pretty rude.. Reply #241 - Sep 10^th, 2007 at 2:06pm AN, this is about people speaking and acting in an unfamiliar way. It is equating that with all the world's issues that is the problem. Once you start justifying every petty little wrong you heap on them with 'they are Muslims, so they must deserve it and it must be their fault' then you become the problem.
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DILLIGAF Gold Member Offline Posts: 1259 The greens are red Gender:	Re: Muslims are pretty rude.. Reply #242 - Sep 10^th, 2007 at 4:52pm Freediver, I was pointing out the fact that if they werent here we wouldnt have the problem. And who brought them here........I was referring to These guys.
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Progs

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Re: Muslims are pretty rude..
Reply #243 - Sep 10^th, 2007 at 9:35pm

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Sep 9^th, 2007 at 10:13pm:

Quote:

I have to admit, I am struggling with the concept that you may actually be right, because believe it or not, the Muslims in my town seem to be very ordinary. They wear ordinary clothes (albeit, they do wear hijabs), they talk with an Aussie accent, they let their kids - boys and girls - go to the beach without supervision, they drive fords and they talk to everyone.

Fair enough... that's why I starteed this thread... to see if my posiition is unique. But what I'm hearing from everywhere else (Not on this forum so far.. apart from sprint)... it seems to back up what I'm seeing.
Do you interact with them in any other way than observing them talking with other people and watching them go to the beach?

The ones I intereact with... DO NOT have Aussie accents... they have very thick, diluted Aussie/Middle Eastern accent. And I'd much prefer hearing the full-on Middle Eastern accent... beccause the hybrid accent sounds absolutely horrible.

The men certainly aren't dressed in the tradional muslim-dress... but they certainly live up to their stereotype wearing something that looks like it came straight out of the movie wog boy. The women however, are dressed full-on (Head to toe burqa). The Muslim children (girls) are extremely well-behaved. But the Muslim boys are the most spoilt little brats with the biggest egos I've ever seen in a child. -No doubt caused by their religion and favouritism of the males.

As far as them letting their kids go around without supervision... I find that pretty reckless. Do you live in a country area or something? Do you consider that a good thing?

Driving fords... meh.

Quote:

But what I'm seeing may be unique. but I do see the predicament you're in, and I think it's quite hypocritical and counter-productive to have laws preventing you from having a say. Better to let it flow than to bottle it up, as the old cliche goes.

Thanks. I'm glad you're not biased enough to ignore this point.

I live in a town called Port Stephens, 40 mins north of Newcastle which, if you don't know, is about an hour north of Sydney. Its not really rural, however its quiet and there are few social problems. I grew up going to the beach by myself and with friends. The only time my parents came with me was at Christmas.

Anyways, I doubt that your position is unique DT. The Sydney Lebanese muslims are notorious in my area and they do come up, something I did neglect to mention, and cause a lot of trouble. However, the Muslims in my area are of Turkish and Iranian descent (I think). And yes, I come into contact with them fairly regularly, as it is not a large town.

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: Muslims are pretty rude..
Reply #244 - Sep 10^th, 2007 at 11:54pm

freediver wrote on Sep 10^th, 2007 at 11:51am:

On your first point... just becasue I'm aware of people's body language and my own, freediver, it doesn't mean I LIKE or 'don't mind' observing rude behaviour. I don't know why you find this so hard to believe.

I'm not saying you aren't offended. I'm saying that at least in this instance, the problem ultimately lies with you, not them. There is nothing universal to say that their behaviour is rude. It's just different to what you are accustomed to.

The kilt situation is similar (ie not exactly the same) because they are both things that it would be silly to get wound up over.

No sh1t? Of course there's nothing 'universal' in their/my behaviour, but there's certain norms that they should live up to. It's Australia... not the Middle East. Basic western manners IS Universal in my opinion... it's what separates us from the animals/crappy third world countries. It's what makes us who we are. And no, I don't expect everyone to get 'educated' enough to understand these differences. That's a ridiculous proposal. Australians just want to continue to live their lives normally... not learn every single goddamn difference and then 'tolerate' it for the rest of their lives in the name of 'diversity.' No, Muslims should NOT keep these differences... even if they ARE trying to live their lives as normal. They have just come to a new country... and they should have EXPECTED that they needed to make major changes. They aren't in the slums of Afghanistan anymore... they're in a civilised society now... get used to it. Screw their differences. They should be striving to be like us. Not the other way around.

And no, mutual cultural behaviour is not possible in my opinion. That's something that CAN'T be taught to everyone. It's a pipe dream by communists.

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Re: Muslims are pretty rude..
Reply #245 - Sep 10^th, 2007 at 11:57pm

Progs wrote on Sep 10^th, 2007 at 9:35pm:

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Sep 9^th, 2007 at 10:13pm:

Quote:

I have to admit, I am struggling with the concept that you may actually be right, because believe it or not, the Muslims in my town seem to be very ordinary. They wear ordinary clothes (albeit, they do wear hijabs), they talk with an Aussie accent, they let their kids - boys and girls - go to the beach without supervision, they drive fords and they talk to everyone.

Fair enough... that's why I starteed this thread... to see if my posiition is unique. But what I'm hearing from everywhere else (Not on this forum so far.. apart from sprint)... it seems to back up what I'm seeing.
Do you interact with them in any other way than observing them talking with other people and watching them go to the beach?

The ones I intereact with... DO NOT have Aussie accents... they have very thick, diluted Aussie/Middle Eastern accent. And I'd much prefer hearing the full-on Middle Eastern accent... beccause the hybrid accent sounds absolutely horrible.

The men certainly aren't dressed in the tradional muslim-dress... but they certainly live up to their stereotype wearing something that looks like it came straight out of the movie wog boy. The women however, are dressed full-on (Head to toe burqa). The Muslim children (girls) are extremely well-behaved. But the Muslim boys are the most spoilt little brats with the biggest egos I've ever seen in a child. -No doubt caused by their religion and favouritism of the males.

As far as them letting their kids go around without supervision... I find that pretty reckless. Do you live in a country area or something? Do you consider that a good thing?

Driving fords... meh.

Quote:

But what I'm seeing may be unique. but I do see the predicament you're in, and I think it's quite hypocritical and counter-productive to have laws preventing you from having a say. Better to let it flow than to bottle it up, as the old cliche goes.

Thanks. I'm glad you're not biased enough to ignore this point.

I live in a town called Port Stephens, 40 mins north of Newcastle which, if you don't know, is about an hour north of Sydney. Its not really rural, however its quiet and there are few social problems. I grew up going to the beach by myself and with friends. The only time my parents came with me was at Christmas.

Anyways, I doubt that your position is unique DT. The Sydney Lebanese muslims are notorious in my area and they do come up, something I did neglect to mention, and cause a lot of trouble. However, the Muslims in my area are of Turkish and Iranian descent (I think). And yes, I come into contact with them fairly regularly, as it is not a large town.

Hmm.. perhaps the differences lie in the Sunni/Shiite divide? Or the Ottoman/ rest of Arabia divide? I'm not an idiot/bigot when it comes to this topic... I do know that the Middle East is a complex region.

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Progs Junior Member Offline Posts: 68 Port Stephens, NSW Gender:	Re: Muslims are pretty rude.. Reply #246 - Sep 11^th, 2007 at 1:12am I think that Iranians are a fair bit more mature when it comes to adapting to other cultures, the same with the Turks. Also, I think that they don't have the cultural insecurities/crisis that seems to be prevalent amongst Arabs.
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Re: Muslims are pretty rude..
Reply #247 - Sep 11^th, 2007 at 1:19am

Quote:

I think that Iranians are a fair bit more mature when it comes to adapting to other cultures

I learnt that Shiites were 'supposedly' the less fanatical out of the two sects at uni... and I don't see why that couldn't have an affect on their personalities. don't know how accurate it is though.

As far as the Ottomans/Turks go... they are largely 'Europeanised' ever since their empire collapsed after WWI... but fast becoming like other Muslims, unfortunately. It was once illgal to wear burqas in public... now there's a push to make them legal. Turkey is set to take a step backwards.

Quote:

Also, I think that they don't have the cultural insecurities/crisis that seems to be prevalent amongst Arabs.

I think you may be right.

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oceanz Gold Member Offline Auzgurl.. Posts: 3531 Gender:	Re: Muslims are pretty rude.. Reply #248 - Sep 11^th, 2007 at 1:18pm You know I dont think "rudeness" is a cultural thing. I know some Ausssies who are pretty damn rude too.
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freediver

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Re: Muslims are pretty rude..
Reply #249 - Sep 11^th, 2007 at 3:56pm

You know I dont think "rudeness" is a cultural thing.

I know some Ausssies who are pretty damn rude too.

A lot of what we think of as politeness is heavily influenced by culture. If someone is raised in a culture and chooses to reject it's notions of what is polite, it would be fair to call them rude.

Freediver, I was pointing out the fact that if they werent here we wouldnt have the problem.

Sure, I understand that, but 'getting rid of people' is an absurd way to solve these sorts of problems. If you just dealt with it more maturely, it wouldn't be a problem either. Isn't that a lot easier, or do you expect the world to rearrange itself around your notions of what is proper?

Progs, I used to go spearing at Port Stephens regularly. There were often middle eastern looking groups on the grassy foreshore area. They reminded me a bit of the way early Greek and Italian immigrants are depicted in old movies - nice clothes, nice cars, very social. I don't recall them ever being a problem, or even speaking loudly. A lot of the really petty stuff reminds of the way early European groups approached each other.

No sh1t? Of course there's nothing 'universal' in their/my behaviour, but there's certain norms that they should live up to. It's Australia... not the Middle East.

One of the things I value most about Australia, and I sure the majority agree, is personal freedom. We don't tell other people to act like us just for our convenience, and there is something wrong with people who do.

Basic western manners IS Universal in my opinion

That's a contradiction DT.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40662 Gender:	Re: Muslims are pretty rude.. Reply #250 - Sep 11^th, 2007 at 10:20pm freediver - Quote: One of the things I value most about Australia, and I sure the majority agree, is personal freedom. We don't tell other people to act like us just for our convenience, and there is something wrong with people who do. You'ld be totally against sharia law then ?
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Progs

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Re: Muslims are pretty rude..
Reply #251 - Sep 11^th, 2007 at 11:21pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 11^th, 2007 at 10:20pm:

freediver - Quote:

One of the things I value most about Australia, and I sure the majority agree, is personal freedom. We don't tell other people to act like us just for our convenience, and there is something wrong with people who do.

You'ld be totally against sharia law then ?

Apparently sharia law is just a strict and very literal interpretation of the Koran, just like how some whacky Christians like to interpret Genesis (Bible) as saying the Earth is exactly 7,500 years old.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48830 At my desk.	Re: Muslims are pretty rude.. Reply #252 - Sep 12^th, 2007 at 11:14am Of course I would sprint.
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Classic Liberal Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 769 sydney Gender:	Re: Muslims are pretty rude.. Reply #253 - Oct 20^th, 2007 at 1:41pm sharia law is muslim law not necesarily form the quaran
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Blasko

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Re: Muslims are pretty rude..
Reply #254 - Nov 3^rd, 2007 at 6:24pm

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You'ld be totally against sharia law then ?

Right, I go to a Muslim forum and I have Muslim friends. I have not once, ever, heard them say they would like to institute sharia law in Australia. Needless to say that would destroy Australia and I'd rather fight (and maybe even die) before such a thing passes here.

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