Australian Politics Forum - ISLAM [from multiculturalism board]

oceanz

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Re: muslim honour
Reply #90 - Jun 14^th, 2007 at 5:08pm

Ausnat wrote on Jun 13^th, 2007 at 7:53pm:

I dont have to base these theories on anybody else. i have my own brain.
What have the Blacks of Africa invented?
The wheel? NO
Iron tools? NO
Did they invent modern cultivation? NO
Did they start the industrial revolution? NO
Have they sailed vast distances in ships with the view to explore? NO
Did they build vast civilizations? NO
Did they ever discover modern medicine? NO

I could go on.

well you could but even some of what you have stated is wrong..
Huh

and how did this get to be an arguement about African pple ???..no reference to them in my quote.

You choose black pple ,curious, because there are many cultures on earth, and this thread is talking about Muslim honour as was I, so how did it get to be about African people.? Off topic AN and generalisations will not make your point clearly Wink

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&&Jade Rawlings on Cousins " He makes our team walk taller..a very good team man , Ben Cousins"

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oceanz

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Re: muslim honour
Reply #91 - Jun 14^th, 2007 at 5:16pm

This AN,

Is my quote. Shocked

oceanz wrote on Jun 13^th, 2007 at 5:02pm:

Aussie says...."These people arent as evolved as we are "by whos defintion and whos standards do you base this on and just saying 'mine' would not be sufficient,.

I dont accept that because a race has different cultural values and religion deems them less evolved than you me or anyone else.They just believe something different thru social conditioning from birth.

We all have the capacity to learn somthing different. being unable to learn it, that would be different.

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: muslim honour
Reply #92 - Jun 14^th, 2007 at 5:37pm

freediver wrote on Jun 14^th, 2007 at 5:07pm:

Sure DT, if you turned out to be right. Coming up with something that goes against the mainstream view is always risky, but has huge rewards. If there was anything in it, a few sackings like the one you highlighted would have no chance of keeping it under wraps. What you don't realise is that people used to think like you do. There was no risk in studying it and people did study it. They came up with nothing of value. It was the notion that race was not a factor that had the real struggle for acceptance in academic circles and which had to prove itself. A study which aims to show that there are no differences is no different in terms of it's contribution to science than a study that aims to show that there are differences.

Observe everyone... this is freedivers new and improved alternative view of history/society. Politically correct and emotive to the core... without a shred of evidence to back up his claims.

Yes... to consider that there's 'no such thing as race' was once considered a 'new and groundbreaking' theory, freediver. But so was communism. Communism was soon proved wrong as this stupid 'no race' bvllkrap will.

It's taken the full circle. Now considering the DIFFERENCES between races are 'new and groundbreaking.' With the good old heads of the University... (Usually former communists) trying everything in their power to stop such study... as we all know... communists have a strong, non-scientific belief that there is no such thing as race/culture/nationality/religion/family. It's a well-known fact that most communists and socialist party members are 'academics' at Universities... and have been since the 1950's and 60's.

Quote:

What universities don't tolerate is people trying to waste their funds on something that has already been done to death.

Oh bvllsh1t. 'Done to death' how?

Quote:

If you put in the hard yards and came up with something new to test or a more refined test, there would be a university somewhere in the world willing to take you on, even if just to prove that race is not a factor.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/health/HealthRepublish_1710435.htm

Do you realise how much krap this study has copped for trying to prove that maoris are more prone to violence due to a genetic difference?

Check out this response by a geneticist:
Quote:

Dr Nicola Poa, research fellow at Christchurch School of Medicine, said it was unheard of to link a gene to race-based behaviour.

"It is pretty contentious to be tagging a gene, especially with that type of behaviour, to an ethnic race. There are huge ethical behaviours behind it. I was appalled.

"You have to be very careful. It is quite a big leap to be able to connect it to a type of behaviour. You really need input from psychologists or psychiatrists to do it at the molecular level. Genes are the basic building blocks. It's a big leap to adapt it to someone's behaviour."

Jesus. Oh yeah... it's really being 'done to death' especially when there's so many open-minded people like Nicola Poa above. Roll Eyes

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Quote:

Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything

&&-- G.K. Chesterton

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freediver

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Re: muslim honour
Reply #93 - Jun 14^th, 2007 at 5:46pm

Observe everyone... this is freedivers new and improved alternative view of history/society. Politically correct and emotive to the core... without a shred of evidence to back up his claims.

No DT it is just common knowledge. I am not going to investigate every conspiracy theory that comes up on the internet, even if it is a nasty one. If you want to make a case that everyone else has been mislead, you come up with the evidence.

Yes... to consider that there's 'no such thing as race' was once considered a 'new and groundbreaking' theory, freediver.

I've never heard of that theory. Sounds like a way to redefine race rather than a meaningful contribution.

But so was communism. Communism was soon proved wrong as this stupid 'no race' bvllkrap will.

LOL, because communism was proven wrong so will this? You do realise that people lived in socialist socities before modern capitalist economic systems sprung up, don't you?

It's taken the full circle. Now considering the DIFFERENCES between races are 'new and groundbreaking.'

I thought you said no-one was interested?

It's a well-known fact that most communists and socialist party members are 'academics' at Universities... and have been since the 1950's and 60's.

Grin

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: muslim honour
Reply #94 - Jun 14^th, 2007 at 5:54pm

Quote:

No DT it is just common knowledge. I am not going to investigate every conspiracy theory that comes up on the internet, even if it is a nasty one. If you want to make a case that everyone else has been mislead, you come up with the evidence.

You're one lazy little worm, aren't you freediver?

Quote:

LOL, because communism was proven wrong so will this? You do realise that people lived in socialist socities before modern capitalist economic systems sprung up, don't you?

No... I didn't know that, freediver. Roll Eyes

Please do go on though... I'll be veeery interested to see what krap you pull out of your @ss this time. Grin

Quote:

I thought you said no-one was interested?

Since when did I say noone was interested? The heads of Universities aren't interested.

Quote:

It's a well-known fact that most communists and socialist party members are 'academics' at Universities... and have been since the 1950's and 60's.

Grin

Laugh it up dickwad. It's true. Socialism has had a HUGE presence at our unis for the last 3-4 decades.

I love it how you didn't comment on the maori article btw... nice one. Good deception. Smiley

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Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything

&&-- G.K. Chesterton

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freediver

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Re: muslim honour
Reply #95 - Jun 14^th, 2007 at 6:04pm

DT, the maori article was a storm in a teacup. They found a gene that was present in 30% of Europeans and 60% of Maoris that the researcher even admitted only had a small influence on behaviour. The researcher was not fired and gained a lot of publicity over it.

You're one lazy little worm, aren't you freediver?

No DT, I just have priorities. Busting dodgy conspiracy theories is not one of them.

Laugh it up dickwad. It's true.

No it isn't. It's absurd.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: muslim honour
Reply #96 - Jun 14^th, 2007 at 6:59pm

Quote:

DT, the maori article was a storm in a teacup. They found a gene that was present in 30% of Europeans and 60% of Maoris that the researcher even admitted only had a small influence on behaviour. The researcher was not fired and gained a lot of publicity over it.

Negative or positive publicity, freediver?

Quote:

You're one lazy little worm, aren't you freediver?

No DT, I just have priorities. Busting dodgy conspiracy theories is not one of them.

WELL bugger ME DEAD FREEDIVER, YOUR THE ONE THAT GOT INTO THIS DEBATE!!! EITHER YOU GIVE ME SOME EVIDENCE TO BACK UP YOUR ARGUMENT OR GET THE HELL OFF THIS THREAD. Seriously, you're starting to really annoy me with, freediver.

You: Prove it.
Me: Here's my evidence, where's yours?
You: I couldn't be bothered looking it up, because this debate is stupid and it would just be SOOO easy to prove you wrong that it's not even worth it. Roll Eyes

Quote:

Laugh it up dickwad. It's true.

No it isn't. It's absurd.

Prove it. Oh... oops... that's right... you don't prove anything do you freediver? Roll Eyes

You'd rather just make baseless assumptions that people are wrong until they show some evidence themselves... then you continue to deny it...based on your assumptions.

Sure... I can give evidence...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Alternative_(Australia)

Quote:

Socialist Alternative

Socialist Alternative (often abbreviated as SA) is a self-described Trotskyist group in Australia formed by a split from the International Socialist Organisation in 1995.[1] They are characterised by a strong focus on recruitment on campuses and at demonstrations.

SA is mainly composed of students active in their student unions, with emphasis on university-based political campaigns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Australia_(Marxist-Leninist)

Quote:

During the early 1970s the CPA(ML) attracted some following among radical students at some Australian universities, notably Monash University and La Trobe University in Melbourne and Flinders University in Adelaide. The CPA(ML) operated on university campuses through "front" organisations such as the Worker-Student Alliance (WSA) and the Monash Labor Club. Its most notable student leaders were Albert Langer and Jim Bacon (Bacon later renounced communism and became Labor Premier of Tasmania). Some academic figures, such as the historian Humphrey McQueen, also supported CPA-ML policies, even if they did not become party members.

http://www.socialist-alliance.org/page.php?page=302

Quote:

Socialist Alliance Candidates

Sam Watson is the lead senate candidate for Socialist Alliance in Queensland.

As the deputy director of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Study Centre at UQ, Sam lectures in indigneous Australian literature.

Quote:

Tom Bramble teaches Industrial Relations at the University of Queensland.
His research and publications are in such areas as union and managerial
strategies, labour flexibility and new production systems, and the
political economy of industry policy. He is the editor of Never a White
Flag, the memoirs of New Zealand labour militant Jock Barnes, and a
member of Socialist Alternative.

Jamie Doughney is currently the senior researcher at Victoria
University's Workplace Studies Centre. He entered academia in 1990 after
a 20 year involvement as a trade unionist and radical activist. This
included a period on the staff and as editor of Direct Action.

Carole Ferrier is the editor of Hecate: A Women's Interdisciplinary
Journal and an Associate Professor in the Department of English at the
University of Queensland. She teaches in a range of courses in the areas
of gender, class, race and ethnicity in relation to literature,
especially Australian literature, and has also published widely in these
areas. She has been an activist for democratic rights for thirty years,
and her politics have remained consistently international socialist.

Sarah Gregson's article on this site is based on her PhD thesis Foot
Soldiers for Capital: the influence of RSL racism on interwar industrial
relations in Kalgoorlie and Broken Hill. She teaches workplace-related
subjects at the University of NSW and is a long-time member of the
International Socialist Organisation.

Martin Hirst has been active in socialist politics since 1975 and claims
to have been the only Trotskyist to evervwork in the federal press
gallery as a journalist. Martin is now teaching journalism at the
University of Queensland and has just written a book about journalism
ethics.

Rick Kuhn teaches politics at the Australian National University. His
publications and interests are in the areas of economic policy and
thought in Australia, contemporary German political economy, and the
Marxist economist Henryk Grossman. He maintains a Marxism page on the
web.

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Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything

&&-- G.K. Chesterton

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: muslim honour
Reply #97 - Jun 14^th, 2007 at 7:03pm

Quote:

Hamish McPherson is a teacher and Australian Education Union workplace
delegate. He is a member of the Fitzroy-Carlton Peace Group and
International Socialist Organisation. In 1994 he joined student struggles
against up-front fees and was elected president of the ANU Student's
Association. He has been involved in the Jabiluka Action Group, protests
against the World Economic Forum, Refugee Action Collective and
campaigning against the war on Iraq.

Georgina Murray trained and taught as a sociologist in New Zealand at
Auckland University but has taught politics since moving to Australia in
1990. She currently works in the Humanities Department, Griffith
University, Nathan, Brisbane Qld

Douglas Pacheco left El Salvador with his family to move to Costa Rica
and then on to Australia. His Ph.D. is on the repercussions of financial
liberalisation on the Costa Rican economy. He teaches at Monash
University.

Robert Tierney is a former member of the International Socialist
Organisation and remains a revolutionary socialist. He teaches industrial
relations at Charles Sturt University. He is currently publishing
research on the state and occupational health and safety in Hong Kong and
Taiwan. He is also beginning research on a book on class and class
struggle in the Central West of New South Wales, involving three other
authors. His passionate interests include Yoga, Tai Chi Chuan and
subversion.

Ji Giles Ungpakorn is a founding member of the Thai Marxist organisation
"Workers Democracy". He is an Assistant Professor of Politics in the
Department of Political Science, Chulalongkorn University, Bangkok,
Thailand.

Louise Walker joined Socialist Action in 1987, and was a member of the
International Socialist Organisation between 1990 and 1992. She submitted
her Honours thesis "Beers, Bed and Board: Industrial Behaviour Around the
Hotel and Liquor Industry Wages Boards, 1900-1914" in 1995. She is a
course adviser in the Department of Computer Science and Software
Engineering at the University of Melbourne, where she remains an active
unionist.

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Quote:

Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything

&&-- G.K. Chesterton

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oceanz

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Re: muslim honour
Reply #98 - Jun 14^th, 2007 at 7:11pm

He'd be kicked out of the course faster than you can say 'white supremist.'

that was mildly amusing DT.

But seriously I agree with what your trying to say...Unis are very mindful of saying anything contentious or offensive toward any 'black group' ...we have changed from "Aboriginal" to "Indigenous Australian" for example and this is just in the areas of Aboriginal Studies- Culture and History in my program.. I dont mind speaking of my studies DT

It is not politically correct to state the obvious..even when it is patently obvious.

But I guess these guidelines are in place for a good reason..protection I would say. We cannot give voice to racism..it is ugly and dangerous when allowed free reign.

This whole arguement is unsettling to be honest. I believe we cannot base a mans intelligence based on a study or a scientific 'finding'..there are many black doctors, Indian Doctors, korean Japanese etc....These degrees are very hard to get into.In every field of tertiary expertise and endeavour, if a black man has the right support and encouragement to succeed he will...it comes down to opportunity in the end.

The poor and oppressed lack opportunity. Sad

Lets live and let live. In the end does it matter.?

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: muslim honour
Reply #99 - Jun 14^th, 2007 at 8:11pm

Hi freediver - to repeat my question.
How do YOU account for the list of standards of living I posted ?

I came from new zealand. yes, maoris are renowm for their aggression. Is one of the reasons I left.
Don't know if it was due to their economic status. they are a warrior breed, as in their history.
Hence they are overrepresented in aggressive games. eg rugby league and union.
Somewhat unlike aborigines.

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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AusNat

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Re: muslim honour
Reply #100 - Jun 14^th, 2007 at 8:17pm

oceanz wrote on Jun 14^th, 2007 at 5:08pm:

Ausnat wrote on Jun 13^th, 2007 at 7:53pm:

I dont have to base these theories on anybody else. i have my own brain.
What have the Blacks of Africa invented?
The wheel? NO
Iron tools? NO
Did they invent modern cultivation? NO
Did they start the industrial revolution? NO
Have they sailed vast distances in ships with the view to explore? NO
Did they build vast civilizations? NO
Did they ever discover modern medicine? NO

I could go on.

well you could but even some of what you have stated is wrong..
Huh

and how did this get to be an arguement about African pple ???..no reference to them in my quote.

You choose black pple ,curious, because there are many cultures on earth, and this thread is talking about Muslim honour as was I, so how did it get to be about African people.? Off topic AN and generalisations will not make your point clearly Wink

Because they are the second most stupid race on earth. I wasnt going to mention Abo's first but now that you've mentioned it- The Aboriginal people of Australia are the most backwards people on earth.

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Total anti-marxist and anti-left wing. The Right is Right.&&&&&&

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oceanz

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Re: muslim honour
Reply #101 - Jun 14^th, 2007 at 8:38pm

Ausnat wrote on Jun 14^th, 2007 at 8:17pm:

oceanz wrote on Jun 14^th, 2007 at 5:08pm:

Ausnat wrote on Jun 13^th, 2007 at 7:53pm:

I dont have to base these theories on anybody else. i have my own brain.
What have the Blacks of Africa invented?
The wheel? NO
Iron tools? NO
Did they invent modern cultivation? NO
Did they start the industrial revolution? NO
Have they sailed vast distances in ships with the view to explore? NO
Did they build vast civilizations? NO
Did they ever discover modern medicine? NO

I could go on.

well you could but even some of what you have stated is wrong..
Huh

and how did this get to be an arguement about African pple ???..no reference to them in my quote.

You choose black pple ,curious, because there are many cultures on earth, and this thread is talking about Muslim honour as was I, so how did it get to be about African people.? Off topic AN and generalisations will not make your point clearly Wink

Because they are the second most stupid race on earth. I wasnt going to mention Abo's first but now that you've mentioned it- The Aboriginal people of Australia are the most backwards people on earth.

Do you have Aboriginal relations Aussie?And why are you so angry at them? Indigenous people, you , me , all of us are descended from the African race..you knew that didnt you? Scientific fact. You are related to 'Abos'-'Africans' etc... Wink

Dont take my word for it though.

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« Last Edit: Jun 14^th, 2007 at 9:03pm by oceanz »

&&Jade Rawlings on Cousins " He makes our team walk taller..a very good team man , Ben Cousins"

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: muslim honour
Reply #102 - Jun 14^th, 2007 at 9:50pm

Quote:

that was mildly amusing DT.

Thanks. But it was a pretty lame attempt at humour, I must admit. Tongue

Quote:

But seriously I agree with what your trying to say...Unis are very mindful of saying anything contentious or offensive toward any 'black group' ...we have changed from "Aboriginal" to "Indigenous Australian" for example and this is just in the areas of Aboriginal Studies- Culture and History in my program.. I dont mind speaking of my studies DT

Cool.

I'm glad you recognise this and I think it's admirable that you've decided to share your studies with us. Cool

No wonder you're so defensive of Aboriginal people. Tongue

I've heard somewhere that this course doesn't have a very large attendences. Is that accurate? What kind of things do they teach?

Quote:

It is not politically correct to state the obvious..even when it is patently obvious.

Exactly.

Quote:

But I guess these guidelines are in place for a good reason..protection I would say. We cannot give voice to racism..it is ugly and dangerous when allowed free reign.

Look, there's nothing wrong with recognising differences, we just need to find a way to do it so that things don't get violent. Nothing wrong with recognising a gene that somehow proves that maori's are more prone to violence. Hell, it may give them leniency in courts if a gene is found. They may even find ways of removing these genes, or even reducing it.

Quote:

This whole arguement is unsettling to be honest. I believe we cannot base a mans intelligence based on a study or a scientific 'finding'..

Well... I think it's possible... so long as the evidence is sufficient.

Quote:

there are many black doctors, Indian Doctors, korean Japanese etc....These degrees are very hard to get into.In every field of tertiary expertise and endeavour, if a black man has the right support and encouragement to succeed he will...it comes down to opportunity in the end.

Well... I'm not entirely convinced about there being 'smart' Africans. These academic Africans usually come from America and that alone is a little suspicious.

Because even if black people in America have white/Asian genes in them, this is rejected and they're still considered 'black.' For example, Barrack Obama, the first so-called 'black' American President is half-white.

But this genetic trait by these successful academics, is ignored due to the 'one drop rule.' In America, if you have one-drop of black in your genes, you're considered 'black.' It's actually an official Government policy. So this white gene... which may or may not contribute to their academic achievement, is largely ignored.

Quote:

The poor and oppressed lack opportunity. Sad

Every poor and oppressed person has the opportunity to better themself. It's gotten to the point that in America black people are so unfairly favoured that it's starting to be 'reverse racism.'

Quote:

Lets live and let live. In the end does it matter.?

I think it does. All knowledge is good knowledge. And knowing the differences in intelligence and ability can only benefit the human race.

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: muslim honour
Reply #103 - Jun 14^th, 2007 at 9:56pm

Quote:

Indigenous people, you , me , all of us are descended from the African race..you knew that didnt you? Scientific fact. You are related to 'Abos'-'Africans' etc... Wink

The European, Aboriginal and African races are separated by thousands of years of evolution. Pretty big gap between us.

Quote:

Do you have Aboriginal relations Aussie?And why are you so angry at them?

For what it's worth... I don't think Ausnat has anything against Aboriginals... just that he's pretty much stating fact.

I don't particularly think Aboriginals have very civilised genes. IQ differences, zero civilisation over thousands of years, inability to cope with alcohol addiction, kind of says to me that Aboriginals aren't a very advanced people, genetically speaking.

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Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything

&&-- G.K. Chesterton

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oceanz

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Re: muslim honour
Reply #104 - Jun 14^th, 2007 at 10:23pm

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Jun 14^th, 2007 at 9:56pm:

Quote:

Indigenous people, you , me , all of us are descended from the African race..you knew that didnt you? Scientific fact. You are related to 'Abos'-'Africans' etc... Wink

The European, Aboriginal and African races are separated by thousands of years of evolution. Pretty big gap between us.

Quote:

Do you have Aboriginal relations Aussie?And why are you so angry at them?

For what it's worth... I don't think Ausnat has anything against Aboriginals... just that he's pretty much stating fact.
-----------------

I don't particularly think Aboriginals have very civilised genes. IQ differences, zero civilisation over thousands of years, inability to cope with alcohol addiction, kind of says to me that Aboriginals aren't a very advanced people, genetically speaking.

--------------------------

I have to probably say that a lot of comments I ve read here regarding Ind. people stem from a lack of understanding..I can see how certain things are perceived and why.

We are separated by more than thousands of years but the fact still remains..we all stem from Africa., and we are related to them, even the germans.

As far as civilised genes consider this.

Who' s the intelligent man...the one who supposedly has the superior brain and kills off his environment with his so-called superior intellect all in the name of progress and advanced civilsation.. or the so called 'not so smart man' who knows how critical it is to treat mother earth with respect she deserves, its a pretty simple message really "nurture your envronmnt and she will take care of you.."
Put the black man on one planet and let him run it..he goes on forever barring comets..the white man on his..give him 200yrs.

So what is it that so called civilised races dont get.?

The Indigenous people have been here for 40 thoussand yrs minimum..but the white man has been here 5 minutes and look what he has done. The earth is choking. Poisoned waters , air and soil.Our rivers are dead.We have no water. All in the space of 200 yrs..a drop in the ocean as far as time goes.

Now please Donald...tell me again about smart?

And whilst we are at it..there are a lot of black doctors..in our practice out here has at least 3 and they change regularly. So theres that arguement down the drain..that black pples brain is inferior., how could they study at this level if that were so?

Donald says..

For what its worth..I dont think Ausnat has anything against Aboriginals, he's pretty much stating a fact.

oh ok Wink

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