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avoiding terrorism (Read 40226 times)
Acid Monkey
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Re: Maori targeted in anti-terrorist raids
Reply #135 - Oct 17th, 2007 at 1:20am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 16th, 2007 at 10:35pm:
Hi acid,
How have you been ?
I guess the anti-terror laws are enacted against people who plan to use violence to get their point of view across.
Be it religious, economic, ethnic, environment, socioeconomic, whatever.


If a group want to use petrol bombs, they are terrorists.


I am well. Thanks.

I agree with you that if their actions are illegal then they should be prosecuted. It's interesting to note that a US christian anti-abortion/pro-life group call Army Of God is listed as a terrorist group because of their direct action methods. So I guess the same can be said for the Animal Liberation Group who have in the past been suspected of torching laboratories and private companies for conducting or tendering animal experimentations.

I understand that there are special interest protest and lobby groups and sometimes they get out of hand. However there are laws for protection against them - arson - if a petrol bomb is thrown, trespassing if they invade private property, willful damage and sabotage, public nuisance and public disturbance, riot and afray, inciting a riot, blackmail, extortion, gaining advantage via deception, manslaughter, murder etc. Anti-terror laws against these groups is a little paranoid and extreme, don't you think? I mean if we had the anti-teror laws back then do you think they should be used against the militant BLF union of the 80s or recently against the Stevedores Union during their action against Patricks? Or, against the environmentalist who attempted to jump the fence in Pine Gap a few years ago? Or, also recently the human rights groups who help the refugees escape the detention camp in SA?

Anti-terror laws are derived from the aftermath of global systematic and coordinated attacks on our society as a whole from extremists miltary groups who are not easily identified within the boudaries of a country. Eg. if NZ decided that declare war on Australia then there is an easily identifable enemy. A group like Al Qaeda who isn't a country, has no borders, has no nationality or race and therefore cannot be identified. The anti terror laws are drawn up to provide authorities special powers to counter the invisible. I don't think that they should be should on militant special interest groups.

Cheers!
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Maori targeted in anti-terrorist raids
Reply #136 - Oct 17th, 2007 at 8:56am
 
Hi Acid,

Very fair that the US christian anti-abortion/pro-life group call Army Of God is listed as a terrorist group . I had not heard of them.
yes, could be a fine line between being "over vigilent" and averting future crimes.
I hope they get the discernment right.

take care
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Modern Classic Right Wing
 
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parasitic jihad
Reply #137 - Dec 16th, 2007 at 8:03pm
 


The paradox of the Islamic Jihad being waged against the West, is that it is a Jihad that is itself parasitic on the West. It could not exist without Western money and Western support. Without these it would quickly shrivel up and die.

There are few better demonstrations than Abu Hamza or Captain Hook living on the dole in the UK while preaching terrorism. Abu Hamza is simply a microcosm of Islamic terrorism which feeds off the West, from the Saudi sponsored Jihad funded by Western oil money and protected by American tanks to Pakistan's ISI backing of the Mujahadeen which would not have been possible without American support to Fatah's terrorist infrastructure now being revitalized by the State Department-- Islamic terrorism is dependent on the West.

The reason that most Arab states exist in the first place is that they were created by England or France and funded by the United States. The House of Saud and the entire fiction of Saudi Arabia was created with British and American support. The Arab League was organized by the British and when they discarded it, the United States picked it up in order to use it as a bulwark against Communism.

About the only real export of these Arab states is oil and this oil was discovered and developed by primarily American companies which were then slowly taken over and in effect nationalized by these Arab countries. The ruler of the House of Saud, Ibn Saud, began as a bandit and camel raider in the desert at the turn of the century. American and British patronage turned him into a monarch and turned Saudi Arabia into a wealthy land. The House of Saud turned around and has backed Islamic terrorism and expansionism across Europe, America and the World.

Saudi money drives the global Jihad but Saudi money and oil are really American money and oil. It was American tanks that kept Saddam out of Ridyah in 1992. But it is in fact America that has kept most of the Arab world intact. It was America which forced England, France and Israel to pull out of Egypt in the 1956 Suez Canal War. Egypt rewarded America for this by inviting the Russians in. It was American influence that kept Russia from going into Iran instead of Afghanistan. Today Iran is America's worst enemy. The list goes on and on.

If America and Europe did not exist, does anyone really believe that oil hungry world powers like Russia or China or Japan would have allowed the tinpot bandit Emirs and Princes and Tyrants of the Arab countries to keep control of their oil for very long? It was the long hand of America that protected them all along. For all their wealth and brutality, no Arab state has managed to defeat even tiny Israel, how long would they have lasted against Russia or China?

Not only has America protected their independence, it has even allowed them to nationalize resources developed by American and British companies. The United States has pumped in money and sacrificed the lives of American soldiers to protect them, in return we have received terrorism, oil boycotts and the funding of Islamic expansionism on our own soil.

Rarely has ingratitude been so viciously manifest, but all this goes to show that the Jihad is a self-destructing Jihad. The Jihad is aimed at the West, yet it could not exist without the West. The Islamic terrorists attacking America resemble an angry passenger carving a hole in his lifeboat in the hopes that everyone else in the lifeboat drowns while he somehow swims to safety.

The Arab world has produced nothing in the last century, its technology and its money come from outside. Its literacy level is below that of Sub-Saharan Africa and its labor, from its oil production to its simplest tasks is done by imported foreigners, often Westerners.

The self-destructing Jihad, should it destroy the West, would leave the Middle East barren, without customers for its oil, tourists for its cities, workers for its oil operations and protection for its kingdoms.

If the West responds by cutting immigration and achieving oil independence, then the Middle East will wind up with an economy based on worthless oil and a demographic time bomb turned against itself.

Either way the Jihad loses. The Jihad may succeed in either pushing the world back to the dark ages or at least turn the Middle East into fanatical Mullah and Imam ruled enclaves, but it won't create a new Islamic civilization, only chaos and dark ages. In Iraq and Gaza, the Jihad quickly degenerated into Muslims killing Muslims. This is nothing new, the Jihad in the end has always turned against fellow Muslims.

When Muslims in the West wage Jihad, these engineers and doctors also attack the very system that provides them with a generous income and generates the technology and resources that makes their profession possible. When Muslims in the Middle East wage Jihad, they attack their best customers and the source of their protection and wealth. One way or another the Jihad is engineered to kill the Goose with the Golden Egg and is literally a suicide Jihad, because its success would destroy the very sources of that Jihad.

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NZ town to set up citizen roadblocks
Reply #138 - Dec 30th, 2007 at 1:13pm
 
http://news.smh.com.au/nz-town-to-set-up-citizen-roadblocks/20071230-1jig.html

Residents of a New Zealand township raided by police in October are planning to set up a blockade.

Residents of Ruatoki in the Bay of Plenty, on New Zealand's North Island, will "check suspicious travellers" at roadblocks into the township for 24 hours from 5am on January 20, the Sunday Star-Times reported.

The roadblocks will be manned by "select hapu of Ruatoki settlement" who will ask people for passports and ask outsiders to sign a book and say what their business is.

"If these criteria and standards have been met, we will permit access, following the distribution of civil rights information," a notice sent to the newspaper said.

On October 15, police arrested 17 people in raids nationwide but the focus was on Ruatoki, about 20km south of Whakatane, where police alleged terrorist camps were being run.

Ruatoki residents consider the police raid was over-the-top.

Police are facing legal action over the raids. Lawyer Peter Williams QC, acting for Te Kotahi o Tuhoe, which speaks on behalf of the Tuhoe people, has said writs would be filed in the High Court at Rotorua in the new year.
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Re: avoiding terrorism
Reply #139 - Jan 5th, 2008 at 2:37pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 30th, 2007 at 4:27pm:
Public awareness foiled UK bomb plot: PM

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Public-awareness-foiled-UK-bomb-plot-PM/2007/06/30/1182624219074.html

A foiled car bombing plot in London proves that anti-terrorism public awareness campaigns work, Prime Minister John Howard says.

London ambulance officers alerted police after they thought they saw smoke inside a green Mercedes parked outside a London nightclub.

Mr Howard said the discovery proves that community awareness programs, like his government's heavily criticised "be alert, not alarmed" campaign, are worthwhile.

"It's a great tribute to the vigilance of those ambulance officers. That sends a very strong message that these community awareness programs work."

Mr Howard said there is no reason for concern in Australia, but the discovery should be a reminder to continue guarding against potential terrorist threats.


I wonder if Bali has the same type of campaigns.
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: avoiding terrorism
Reply #140 - Jan 6th, 2008 at 2:20pm
 
deathrides - by the time smoke is inside a car, it is way past the stage to stop it.
The innocent people were lucky the bomb did not go off.

One way to stop it is to stop the source of it.
ie, the koran, mosques and islam.

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Acid Monkey
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Re: avoiding terrorism
Reply #141 - Jan 6th, 2008 at 4:34pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 6th, 2008 at 2:20pm:
One way to stop it is to stop the source of it.
ie, the koran, mosques and islam.



So, I guess that you advocate religious censorship, and a rewrite of our constitution on the freedom to congregrate and freedom of religion. I guess that means that we'll have to change the text on the Australian values citizenship test as well.

Smiley



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Sprintcyclist
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Re: avoiding terrorism
Reply #142 - Jan 6th, 2008 at 5:58pm
 
acid - I don't care what anyone believes.
If their "book" says explicitly to kill us, I don't accept it.

If they say they can't live with us, so it is.

I have a right to live in safety and freedom.
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Acid Monkey
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Re: avoiding terrorism
Reply #143 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 11:24am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 6th, 2008 at 5:58pm:
acid - I don't care what anyone believes.
If their "book" says explicitly to kill us, I don't accept it.

If they say they can't live with us, so it is.

I have a right to live in safety and freedom.



Nevertheless, you advocate a rewrite of our constitution and values statement.  Smiley

Don't forget, even the Christian bible advocates death. Sure, its in the Old Testament but many Christians quote and recite the Old Testament to justify their beliefs and actions. South Africa's former aparthied regime and the KKK in the US draw their extremisn from the bible.

Your use of the word seems very selfish as the freedom you imply applies only to you and those who think like you. What about multi generational Australian of other religions? Their freedom doesn't apply?
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Re: avoiding terrorism
Reply #144 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 11:33am
 
Not all muslims are terrorists. To ban an entire religion to get rid of terrorism looks like a case of the cure being worse than the disease. It is naive to think you could take any action against a religion and not end up in a situation 100 times worse than the current one. Ban terrorism, not Islam. It's that simple.
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: avoiding terrorism
Reply #145 - Jan 9th, 2008 at 10:23am
 
acid -  where are the christian suicide bombers ??
Or the extremist buddhists ?

the facts are all the problems come from muslims.
This is indicitive of a weekly news item.


"SUSPECTED Islamist militants have shot dead at least nine tribal elders who were trying to negotiate a ceasefire between Pakistan's security forces and al-Qa'ida and Taliban insurgents near the border with Afghanistan.

The killings in the mountainous stronghold of Baitullah Mehsud - the al-Qa'ida and Taliban-linked militant blamed for the assassination of Benazir Bhutto - have prompted fears of escalating violence in restive northwestern Pakistan.

They came as a new report by a Pakistani think tank showed that the country is now the most violent in the world after Iraq in terms of the casualties caused by terrorism.

According to the Pakistan Institute for Peace Studies, the country last year witnessed 1442 violent incidents, including border skirmishes, which caused nearly 9000 casualties - 3448 of them fatal. "

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23024900-25837,00.html



freediver - gto any other ideas on how to stop terrorists then ?



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Re: avoiding terrorism
Reply #146 - Jan 9th, 2008 at 12:12pm
 
The same way we stop other crime.
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: avoiding terrorism
Reply #147 - Jan 9th, 2008 at 3:37pm
 
thanks for not answering.

why bother typing unless you are going to answer a directly given question ??


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Re: avoiding terrorism
Reply #148 - Jan 9th, 2008 at 4:00pm
 
OK, I'll rephrase. Terrorism can and should be dealt with within the current law enforcement framework. Hysterical calls for the abolition of fundamental human rights (freedom of religion) are absurd in the current context and are unlikely to ever be necessary. Please don't make me list all the ways the police and security forces are currently approaching the problem and have solved it elsewhere in the past. It is commone knowledge.
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Re: avoiding terrorism
Reply #149 - Jan 9th, 2008 at 7:29pm
 
fd - you still have not given any concrete "other ideas"

the means we are using now are not working. the incidences are rising.
We have to try other means.

Any other ideas ??

The problem is not solved
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