Australian Politics Forum - The facts on IR laws

IQSRLOW Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1618	Re: The facts on IR laws Reply #75 - Feb 7^th, 2008 at 1:36am How true- any discerning reader knows 'Crickey' leans so far left they would disappear up their own ar se holes if they tripped. The fact that FD uses them as continual source of his (mis)information is telling
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mantra

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Re: The facts on IR laws
Reply #76 - Feb 7^th, 2008 at 5:53am

Quote:

Industrial action reached near 100 year lows under the coalition

Of course it did because unions only became significant at the beginning of the 20th century. Prior to that employers could do what they pleased. They could send small children down the mines and to work in dangerous industry. There were 12 hour working days, 6 days a week on less than a living wage and there were no safety provisions in the workplace. This is exactly the path we would have gone down if Howard had been re-elected. In fact there have been many complaints recently about conditions in the mining industry where workers have to work under so much pressure, safety is being ignored.

Quote:

The recent focus on Industrial Relations lately has been all about productivity and pay rates, but new official figures on death rates show that it may be time to give priority to workplace safety.

In the past four years there has been a 16 per cent increase in workplace deaths.

In the year to last July there were 162 workplace deaths. That is 146 workers and 16 bystanders. Most deaths were from vehicle accidents, being hit by moving or falling objects, electrocution or falls from a height.

The official figures show most deaths were in the transport and manufacturing industries, but the riskiest industry is the one which has given Australia much of its wealth: mining.

The mining industry recorded a death rate of 8.8 workers per 100,000. The national average across all industries is 1.4.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/31/2150910.htm

We need unions regardless of whether the shareholders have to take a small drop in dividends.

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deepthought

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Re: The facts on IR laws
Reply #77 - Feb 7^th, 2008 at 7:28am

mantra wrote on Feb 7^th, 2008 at 5:53am:

Quote:

Industrial action reached near 100 year lows under the coalition

Of course it did because unions only became significant at the beginning of the 20th century. Prior to that employers could do what they pleased. They could send small children down the mines and to work in dangerous industry. There were 12 hour working days, 6 days a week on less than a living wage and there were no safety provisions in the workplace. This is exactly the path we would have gone down if Howard had been re-elected. In fact there have been many complaints recently about conditions in the mining industry where workers have to work under so much pressure, safety is being ignored.

Quote:

The recent focus on Industrial Relations lately has been all about productivity and pay rates, but new official figures on death rates show that it may be time to give priority to workplace safety.

In the past four years there has been a 16 per cent increase in workplace deaths.

In the year to last July there were 162 workplace deaths. That is 146 workers and 16 bystanders. Most deaths were from vehicle accidents, being hit by moving or falling objects, electrocution or falls from a height.

The official figures show most deaths were in the transport and manufacturing industries, but the riskiest industry is the one which has given Australia much of its wealth: mining.

The mining industry recorded a death rate of 8.8 workers per 100,000. The national average across all industries is 1.4.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/31/2150910.htm

We need unions regardless of whether the shareholders have to take a small drop in dividends.

Yes, but you seem to think industrial action has been falling naturally. You obviously are unaware of the Pilot's dispute, the Power strikes in Queensland, the famous meat workers disputes, the waterfront disputes and the renowned Dollar Sweets case.

John Howard brought industrial harmony to a fractious workplace.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49277 At my desk.	Re: The facts on IR laws Reply #78 - Feb 20^th, 2008 at 3:26pm from crikey: Last night's edition of Four Corners was instructive. "Most cabinet ministers in the former Howard government did not realise that workers could be worse off under Work Choices, former workplace relations minister Joe Hockey says."
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deepthought

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Re: The facts on IR laws
Reply #79 - Feb 20^th, 2008 at 4:11pm

freediver wrote on Feb 20^th, 2008 at 3:26pm:

from crikey:

Last night's edition of Four Corners was instructive.

"Most cabinet ministers in the former Howard government did not realise that workers could be worse off under Work Choices, former workplace relations minister Joe Hockey says."

Though most would have known that workers could be better off. Under a one size fits all model generally espoused by a Liebor Party (centralised wage fixing/enterprise bargaining agreements) everyone gets treated the same.

Sadly that is as a 'work unit' which depersonalises relations with employers - hence the 'casual army' Cheating created and the 'part time army' Kevvy is creating. Their IR ideas are steeped in archaic socialist models that everyone's output is equal and therefore everyone is rewarded the same - people get treated as automatons.

Bad IR from the early part of last century. Back to the future with Liebor.

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deepthought Gold Member Offline In Defence Of Liberty Posts: 2869	Re: The facts on IR laws Reply #80 - Feb 20^th, 2008 at 4:12pm <snip> Duplicate post
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Aussie

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Re: The facts on IR laws
Reply #81 - Feb 20^th, 2008 at 4:31pm

deepthought wrote on Feb 20^th, 2008 at 4:11pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 20^th, 2008 at 3:26pm:

from crikey:

Last night's edition of Four Corners was instructive.

"Most cabinet ministers in the former Howard government did not realise that workers could be worse off under Work Choices, former workplace relations minister Joe Hockey says."

Though most would have known that workers could be better off. Under a one size fits all model generally espoused by a Liebor Party (centralised wage fixing/enterprise bargaining agreements) everyone gets treated the same.

Sadly that is as a 'work unit' which depersonalises relations with employers - hence the 'casual army' Cheating created and the 'part time army' Kevvy is creating. Their IR ideas are steeped in archaic socialist models that everyone's output is equal and therefore everyone is rewarded the same - people get treated as automatons.

Bad IR from the early part of last century. Back to the future with Liebor.

......supported by the Lieberals. You, and only you, are flogging what everyone else knows is a dead horse. Ask Brendan!

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deepthought

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Re: The facts on IR laws
Reply #82 - Feb 20^th, 2008 at 4:46pm

Aussie wrote on Feb 20^th, 2008 at 4:31pm:

deepthought wrote on Feb 20^th, 2008 at 4:11pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 20^th, 2008 at 3:26pm:

from crikey:

Last night's edition of Four Corners was instructive.

"Most cabinet ministers in the former Howard government did not realise that workers could be worse off under Work Choices, former workplace relations minister Joe Hockey says."

Though most would have known that workers could be better off. Under a one size fits all model generally espoused by a Liebor Party (centralised wage fixing/enterprise bargaining agreements) everyone gets treated the same.

Sadly that is as a 'work unit' which depersonalises relations with employers - hence the 'casual army' Cheating created and the 'part time army' Kevvy is creating. Their IR ideas are steeped in archaic socialist models that everyone's output is equal and therefore everyone is rewarded the same - people get treated as automatons.

Bad IR from the early part of last century. Back to the future with Liebor.

......supported by the Lieberals. You, and only you, are flogging what everyone else knows is a dead horse. Ask Brendan!

I've never been one to follow the crowd mate. You should know that.

You should also know that most people fear change. Even if it is good change. It's the human condition to sit in the swamp and complaiin how awful it is without doing anything about it.

It takes men of vision, like Johnny and me, to see what others can not.

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deepthought

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Re: The facts on IR laws
Reply #83 - Feb 20^th, 2008 at 5:02pm

freediver wrote on Feb 20^th, 2008 at 3:26pm:

from crikey:

Last night's edition of Four Corners was instructive.

"Most cabinet ministers in the former Howard government did not realise that workers could be worse off under Work Choices, former workplace relations minister Joe Hockey says."

It's also instructive to know that most cabinet ministers in the Liebor Party will not be aware that workers could be worse off under Liebor's ancient IR tyranny. Gillard knows though . . . .

Quote:

Gillard shuns pledge on IR conditions

DEPUTY Prime Minister Julia Gillard has pledged the aim of award modernisation is not to disadvantage workers but has failed to give a guarantee workers will not be worse off.

With employees in different states paid different rates for the same job, the next phase of the Rudd government’s workplace reform agenda poses the real risk that some workers could lose conditions.

<snip>

Ms Gillard said today there were now no excuses for the Coalition not to pass the legislation to ban new Australian Workplace Agreements by Easter.

Under the laws existing AWAs could run for up to five years but now new agreements could be signed from the date of the passage of the legislation.

It's a long long way to the bottom from the top

This will kill off the mining industry which built its growth on individual freedom. With freedom gone the industry will suffer. Sell your mining shares folks. Invest in a computer retailer or cable maker.

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Aussie

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Re: The facts on IR laws
Reply #84 - Feb 20^th, 2008 at 5:08pm

deepthought wrote on Feb 20^th, 2008 at 4:46pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 20^th, 2008 at 4:31pm:

deepthought wrote on Feb 20^th, 2008 at 4:11pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 20^th, 2008 at 3:26pm:

from crikey:

Last night's edition of Four Corners was instructive.

"Most cabinet ministers in the former Howard government did not realise that workers could be worse off under Work Choices, former workplace relations minister Joe Hockey says."

Though most would have known that workers could be better off. Under a one size fits all model generally espoused by a Liebor Party (centralised wage fixing/enterprise bargaining agreements) everyone gets treated the same.

Sadly that is as a 'work unit' which depersonalises relations with employers - hence the 'casual army' Cheating created and the 'part time army' Kevvy is creating. Their IR ideas are steeped in archaic socialist models that everyone's output is equal and therefore everyone is rewarded the same - people get treated as automatons.

Bad IR from the early part of last century. Back to the future with Liebor.

......supported by the Lieberals. You, and only you, are flogging what everyone else knows is a dead horse. Ask Brendan!

I've never been one to follow the crowd mate. You should know that.

You should also know that most people fear change. Even if it is good change. It's the human condition to sit in the swamp and complaiin how awful it is without doing anything about it.

It takes men of vision, like Johnny and me, to see what others can not.

So, are you still proud you voted Lieberal? How can you be, now that they are supporting the Government's position on IR. What say ye, DT? You are now out of step with the contemporary Liebs who have abandoned what ye and hayseed just luuurved. He and ye are now lost in space, flailing away with no gravity.

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deepthought

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Re: The facts on IR laws
Reply #85 - Feb 20^th, 2008 at 5:37pm

Aussie wrote on Feb 20^th, 2008 at 5:08pm:

So, are you still proud you voted Lieberal? How can you be, now that they are supporting the Government's position on IR. What say ye, DT? You are now out of step with the contemporary Liebs who have abandoned what ye and hayseed just luuurved. He and ye are now lost in space, flailing away with no gravity.

I am not proud they have collapsed like blancmanges - but I said all along (from the outset) that Brendan was not up to the task. Sadly he is proving to be a member of the Liebor Party along with all the others.

I am still proud to have voted for the government who gave Australians 11 years of clear air to breathe.

I did not vote for the anti-jobs Liebor party and I do not intend to vote for them ever unless they change their position on their opposition to ordinary Australians having a good life.

The Liebor Party are opposed to Australia improving its identity as a smart country. In fact Liebor's own Knowledge Nation report in 1996 admitted that investment in knowledge as a proportion of GDP actually fell during the Hawke/Cheating years. Little Kevvy is on track to duplicate the socialist dream of dumbing down the country.

It was also the Big Beazer who, as finance minister in 1995 cut CSIRO funding by $20 million. Don't fret though - a year later Johnny restored it to them.

And Little Kevvy doesn't give a testicle - he reckoned that student debt had become a "national disgrace" in 2007. But he's not going to do anything about it though - he's too busy puzzling over the uncooperative dishwasher, signing treaties without targets and mumbling 'sorry' for what your grandad did.

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« Last Edit: Feb 20^th, 2008 at 5:44pm by deepthought »

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deepthought Gold Member Offline In Defence Of Liberty Posts: 2869	Re: The facts on IR laws Reply #86 - Feb 20^th, 2008 at 5:38pm <snip> duplicate phuquing post - this is all the Liebor Party's fault.
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Aussie

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Re: The facts on IR laws
Reply #87 - Feb 20^th, 2008 at 5:53pm

Quote:

I am not proud they have collapsed like blancmanges -

Well, what are you going to do. These buggers just made a complete fool out of you. Maybe give the Greens a look.................oh, hang on, they support the Labor Party too.

It seems you are now ancient and irrelevant history, just like Keating. You and him make a great pair. Side-lined.

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deepthought

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Re: The facts on IR laws
Reply #88 - Feb 20^th, 2008 at 6:40pm

Aussie wrote on Feb 20^th, 2008 at 5:53pm:

Quote:

I am not proud they have collapsed like blancmanges -

Well, what are you going to do. These buggers just made a complete fool out of you. Maybe give the Greens a look.................oh, hang on, they support the Labor Party too.

It seems you are now ancient and irrelevant history, just like Keating. You and him make a great pair. Side-lined.

Now we have your opinion of me out of the way, what do you think of Jules's revelation that workers may be worse off under the return to industrial age IR than they currently are under Johnny's visionary WorkChoices?

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IQSRLOW Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1618	Re: The facts on IR laws Reply #89 - Feb 20^th, 2008 at 6:51pm Aussie---->
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